Let's End Heroin Addiction & Knife Crime! School of Rock Bottom 23: Carl Scott

welcome to school of rockbottom with Oliver Mason I'm an actor a voiceover artist and a mental health coach and I know firsthand that rockbottom can be the greatest teacher and a springboard for a beautiful life and it's these careers and passions and life experiences that have given birth to this podcast and as you know I invite fellow creatives and very inspiring individuals who have hit rock bottom but then gone on to thrive and really excel in life and I'm so excited today because I have got the cool and charismatic Carl Scott in the studio how are you Carl I'm all right thank you how are you mate thanks so much for coming down today well thank you for inviting me I really really appreciate it um before we sort of jump in uh a little trigger warning there may be references to drug misuse and heroin and potentially violence and sexual abuse um I'm just just going to give you Carl a quick bio if that's all right for just kind of jump straight in so um you're now going to find out why I'm so excited to have Carl if you're not if you're not sure who Carl is um so Carl Scott uh suffered childhood abuse domestic violence and was groomed into a gang at the age of 13 he's been stabbed three times and his best friend died in his arms and at 15 he was living in a hostel addicted to heroin then on to prison and 7 years ago Carl changed his life completely and went on a mission to help other people get free of drugs and alcohol and to set up project youth to empower young people to prevent youth crime and violence through education programs onetoone mentoring and group workshops Carl is working with the local police to set up revolutionary bleed control kits around Sussex and soon to be London which are designed to prevent catastrophic blood loss while waiting for the paramedics to arrive that's just amazing and obviously we're going to dive into all of that throughout the next hour um I know that you've seen the podcast before Carl but I'm going to start potentially with the hardest question yeah which is I know you've had several Rock bottoms um I just wondered if you could um share one of those with us and we're just going to kind of pan out from that point if that's okay yeah of course yeah um 2016 probably that that was my that that was my final and worst Rock Bottom um I mean you know some years have gone by since childhood so you know you you think that you're moving away from that and you actually don't you know if it's not looked at and stuff haven't been dealt with it usually does come back to B you on the Ares to say you know and and in 2016 that's what it did I was struggling severely with mental health issues at that point um and and even though at that time I wasn't using heroin as to say I was still using other substances so my mind wasn't free of drugs but as the excuse that I used to use is well you know I'm not using heroin so I'm still clean in a way but I weren't I weren't clean I was still using everything that I could just not that um and I had a liver disease and um that started to take effect on my life and I was due to start some treat um for this some chemotherapy and my uh mental health had to be up to scratch as the consultant is to say so they wanted me to uh sort out my mental health go into some anti-depressants ready for this treatment to start at that time I was taking cocaine I was taking Valiums traod dos I was in severe Agony and pain I was being sick about 20 times a day I was about seven stone in weight I was very very ill and at that point it was when I'd slipped back into using heroin um I'd relapsed I didn't even know I'd relapsed I woke up one morning feeling in like I was in severe pain I was going through cold turkey again and I couldn't put my finger on as to why until my partner Carlo she said do you not know what you've been doing for the last 6 weeks I'm like no what have I been doing she like you've been taking heroin again and I was like what like where's that come from it turned out that on uh I was having a bit of a bad day and I ended up going to an old of mine um I had some insurance payout for some money a lot of money which is a big trigger for people as well when it comes to addiction um and knocked on his door and asked him to go and school for me and that's how it started um from then I was causing absolute chaos in my house and this was all being done around my children and you know there was numerous p phone calls that was happening through my partner because she was scared because of the way I was reacting in the house obviously I'm under the influence of everything you can imagine I do not I don't know what I'm doing I haven't got a clue I was very unsafe to be around um and being in that position obviously in front of your children as well it it just was an unsafe environment for them uh to be around and and stuff for them to see it you know quite traumatic for them for them themselves you know what I mean so yeah and it kind of all went to a a big bang really when it came to the like that obviously the police had come around and um they removed me from the property on the final occasion and that that was it really from there and I kind of went back to square one hour I'd been when I was 16 and I was living in a uh in a house with other drug users and I was sleeping on the floor I was you know there was different people coming in and out of the out of the house continually every day and I just didn't see any way out it was just again back into that same cycle again I've now got myself an addiction again I'm now waking up every morning with with pains and you know having to go out and try and find some some means of getting the funds to buy it and it was just back into the old roots that I used to be doing back in the past so it was yeah that went on for about three months and that that I was banned from seeing my kids I didn't have my partner anymore I'd lost my house I'd just lost everything in the space of I don't know would you say a year in the space of a year I lost everything and yeah Social Service just got involved and I was then told I couldn't see my kids anymore I had to go to court and that was that's probably you know that was the the biggest rock bottom that I've had in the last I'd say 10 years yeah wow thanks K so much for sharing that with us I mean that's uh amazing place to start and to and to take take us you know and the viewers and listeners on the journey um just for those listening and watching this that don't know much about heroin you know there might be some people listening or watching who don't know much about it at all so just a little bit of um a little bit more context around heroin so heroin heroin comes illegally from the Opium poppy a flower that grows in Asia Mexico and South America once injected snorted or smoked it enters the brain and is converted into morphine and it binds to the opioid receptors in our brain which stop pain and it also floods the bra brain with dopamine the rush is usually accompanied by a warm flushing of the skin or a dry mouth and a heavy feeling in the extremity uh nausea vomiting and severe itching may occur and the initial effects usually you'll be drowsy for several hours mental function is clouded heart function slows and breathing is also severely slowed sometimes enough to be life-threatening and most drug misuse deaths are related to heroin 46% is the latest estimate and heroin deaths more than doubled in the last 10 10 years um there's one theory around addiction that it's about trying to get away from pain for some people um in your bio I obviously referenced um a lot of trauma yeah from before do you think that's a fair assessment with your addiction to heroin that you were trying to numb pain of some description because the brain doesn't know the difference between emotional and physical B pain research shows I mean when you look at so when I first originally started using I was like I was in gangs anyway I was selling the stuff for older people I didn't even know what it were I'd obviously knew the name but I didn't know what it were uh it wasn't until I got into a hostel that I then found out exactly what this stuff was it didn't put me off um there was you know people gouchin as they did the words that they use for for heroin on the sofas they were sleeping and I was quite confused because I had to ask somebody like why are they like sleeping on the sofas constantly all day every day like what are they doing and this lad was like that they were on heroin yeah I was like what so when I heard that word obviously I was I was selling the stuff for for people anyway on the street so that's what I said I was like I sell that so you tried it already but you weren't aware that's no no no that was when I tried it I see right so this was OB this was off after the stabins and me losing my mate but it would have been about six month six to eight months after that I ended up in in a hostel and he said have you never tried it I said no I've never tried it and he was like yeah you can smoke it in a up and I was like really and he was like yeah so we went up to me room and that's when I first attempted to use it and I liked it straight away I liked it it made everything feel like it had gone away so any issues or you know feeling or emotion that I was feeling around that time I didn't feel it anymore um and it became a a routine thing then from then I was using it every other day and then it went to using it every day and within 6 months I was injecting because the smokeing it wasn't doing what it was originally doing when I first started so I needed to get that instant High um and the quicker way of doing it was via injections so that's where then it became a problem but all of my past and my history I I didn't even think about it from there so it took everything away from me to be honest with you yeah um I when you say it took it away what specifically were you trying to run away from do you think well I I've only I've only basically found this out over the last seven years to be honest with you um since I've actually been free of drugs completely so I was I think it's it's avoidance around you know childhood the way that I'm not going to say anything bad about my parents as such but there was things that went on as a child that as I say with even my children they shouldn't see and you know there was domestic incidence between me and my mom and my dad uh my dad did try uh well threaten to kill me because my mom wanted to leave um and he was just you know just doing that manipulation game with my mom you know so there was that incident there was another incident with my mom had met a different partner that my uncle had brought back from the army with him and he he was looking after me that day and he put me in a dust bin and rolled me towards a pond and tipped the dpin over um so once I'd opened the lid of the dpin I'd have fell in the pond and drowned I was only about five um so I obviously I remember these things you know yeah and then when you're younger you don't you don't think that they're that much of an issue until years go by you know sure and then because my parents was musical they was always out on the music scene all the time so that always consisted the babysitters because we we couldn't be in the pubs because of the age limits and stuff and you know certain pubs on a Sunday afternoon in your local area you know you're back street pubs would allow you in until like 4:00 in the afternoon as to say but evening times like you we we used to have a babysitter so it was either between my uncle or my grandparents and um that's where then about the age of nine my uncle my mom's brother he he then started to abuse me physically sexually mentally um from the age of nine up to about 13 so there was all them different things that was you know going on from that that period and um and it would have affected me it was quite confusing back then especially when it all came out like you know why did that happen is it because of me was it my fault you know you you you ask yourself so many different questions which then if ever a uh subject of that sort would come up you'd avoid it quickly because it's not a conversation that you want to be having with people so it's quite an embarrassing conversation to be having with people you know especially from a man's point of view um especially in front of other men as well it's it's not yeah you've got your your your pride as to say to think about what people are going to be thinking of you you know so so yeah so that that that's that's what that came out and you know I do think that that is half the reason for the behaviors that I had yeah um going forward when it came to you know the street life and anger and stuff to and you know not really giving a giving a hell about anyone or anything really um it was just pure hatred so so yeah so when it came to going in could I could I just pause you there I thought that was a really interesting thing I think it's so important we talk about this because I think there's such a big stereotype around sort of people that use heroin and we'll get into this later people who are in gangs and they never I think a lot of people don't consider the backstory like I've got nothing but huge compassion and empathy for what you've just talked about it makes absolute sense that you know those things would have H would have happened next when you said sort of hatred towards everyone what what what do you mean by that I'm just curious what what you meant that because I think when you look at when it comes to abuse as a child for example um you've got you have questions of why nobody noticed why didn't anybody see that this was happening you're a child and you have a number of adults around you that should be able to pick this stuff out and notice any difference or change within a Young Person's Behavior now I'm not going to say I was the best behaved kid because I wasn't but my behavior probably got more erratic when this stuff was going on so that was a a change because I was a I was a good kid I was a good kid up until that point uh my behavior did drastically start to change I was be you know very disrespectful um truin in from school not being very nice to my brother or my sister and you know being really Lippy and cheeky and lying all the time and you know all this was a big change of just Why didn't that get questioned why wasn't it looked into a little bit more so so because that didn't happen that just made me have the same mindset for everybody I ever come into contact with you're all the same like none of you even care anyway so any adult that I would have come into contact with and they even tried to have some sort of conversation I'd par them off straight away I'm not interested you weren't interested like all them years ago you're not interested now you're just probably trying to say these things to I I always thought that they were they had a an ulterior motive to why they talking to me I didn't trust anyone okay especially when it come to men yeah yeah makes Absolut you would have me like like what we're doing now you put this B like 25 years ago you won't be s in a room with me on your own yeah sure it just wouldn't happen and i' I'd probably get quite aggressive to be fair I'd feel like I'd be uh I'd feel like or I'd go back to the old days like I'm I'm kind of like backed into a corner and I'd feel very very uncomfortable with it um yeah I had I had some uh really crazy mindsets back then I thought I I I actually thought and I'll be be honest I like I thought um people that like the same sex was was all in that that way inclin and that that's what that mind gave to me and it's you know obviously that's not the case you know not the case at all um but that's that's what happened to me that's how it made me feel because he'd come out as that he was gay at that point so that's why I had that mindset by thinking that everybody was all the same so I like I said I had hatred towards everybody body and and obviously as you get older and you know you start to realize well no actually that's not the case like you can't you can't really say that that's like everybody CU it's not that's just one like small minority you know of people that way inclined of wanting to do things with children it doesn't mean that you know just because you're gay that that's what you are cuz that's [ __ ] [ __ ] that's not the case at all so but I didn't get taught any other way like you know I didn't get people telling me or having conversations with me to tell me that that ain't the case I had to try and learn that myself and and it would have helped if I did have adults and you know people that I could look up to that could actually point me in the right direction and be like no C mate that's not the case did you have any positive adult Role Models s growing up the age 13 not really I mean I was really close with my uncle Martin really really close really good uncle yeah um but again you know all my family all my family are you know they do their own thing uh my uncle was ex-military he was he was a dream car he saw a lot of bad stuff in in Northern Ireland and you know he he had his reasons as to why but old generation again you know addicted to alcohol and slipped through the net and didn't get the support that he needed um and then you know sadly he passed away a couple of years ago so you know he I was really close with with my uncle Martin yeah so but again he smokes weed and drinks and stuff so really like you know is that is that a good thing no probably not do you know what I mean but it was one of them uncles you could go around to their house and you know you can get away with whatever you want you know so he was a good uncle for that um but yeah no not really any much Role Models I I got put into behavioral therapy after this had all come out yeah it weren't behavior that I needed to look at it was trauma so it was completely the opposite of what I needed um and I didn't really get on with the the therapist for that and um we did we clashed constantly right um there was there was some stats that came out last year you can tell a bit of a stat and a data nerded I can't help but hide it but out of America with addiction they were saying that one in three people who have got a substance misuse problem are suffering with trauma and I thought surely it's two and three or higher that really really surprised me but that just goes to show just you know it's like a hot bed for addiction if you're trying to run away from all those things that you've just described horrific Things That No Charge should have to go through um you know if you look at the Vietnam War and you look at the American Army vets he went out you know they they were exposed to heroin out there yeah I don't know what the stats were I think about half um became addicted to heroin and the other half just walked away from it which just shows that genetics and and environment and lifestyle have such a massive part to play of course and obviously when you took heroin was it 15 when he first took it or 16 yeah just I wasn't long into being 16 yeah it was quite early into 16 you were getting the power of heroin which is a powerful drug but you also getting the removal like you say all those things you were running away from so you were getting like a like a double whammy double hit really weren you it was enjoyment I'm not going to lie I loved it it was probably one of the best drugs I've ever taken in my life but obviously it was the worst as well um because the outcome of of having an heroin addiction is not good the outcome is not good whatsoever um so you know you don't understand that until you know you you're let's say 3 to six months into taking it yeah that's when you start then realizing exactly what this stuff does to you and by that time it's too late um and it's really really difficult to get away from yeah and and then to be honest with you I didn't really want to get away from it I had nothing to really do with my life at that point so you know that actually you know heroin pass the Tim as to say you know before you know it a Year's gone by then two years has gone by then three years has gone by it flies by time really does fly by and you don't really see the effect that that's actually having on you is people from the outside that can see in like you know how you look how much weight you've lost how you're dressing you know your skin being you're just really pale and you you actually look like a drug addict as to say uh whatever a drug addict looks like you know like I said you it comes to the stigma you know you can walk through your local town center and you can see people that are homeless and instantly people are assuming they're drug addicts not every homeless people that you want past our drug addicts they're not they're just homeless um but there's that that's where you fight them with the stigma you know um and sometimes not every homeless uh homeless person is addicted to heroin some of them are alcoholic but you'll automatically assume that they're drug addicts and they're not so that was kind of how it went with me really time just flew by and you know I incurred prison sentences due to addiction use because obviously I've got to find my habit some way right and yeah and I I started doing silly things on the streets to get the money for and that's how that led to to you being in prison was it was it through what stealing or just carrying it on you or selling it or I don't know obviously but initially initially the first sentence that I ever got I was driving uh with no insurance or no license and back then it used to be producers that they used to give you if you didn't have insurance and stuff they give you a bit of paper and let you on your way in the car um and I I got disqualified a couple of times and the only time you know driving was to go and buy the drugs and then drive back to where I needed to go to use it um and then it became where the police started to recognize my face so where they started to recognize my face they drive past me in their car they know I didn't have a driving license they pull me over give me another producer send me on my way again in the end I started getting uh disqualified from drive him so I I was able to use two names back then because my my mom's maiden name was Kemp and my dad's name is Scott I could legally use both of them names so I then you know found a little swerve in the net being able to sounds handy it were handy it was handy obviously it come down and bit me on the ass in the end but you know it was handy at that time because if I had a warrant out in Kemp I could use Cole Scott so it was you know it was a different thing so it kept me out of prison for a little bit longer but in the end it all just comes crashing down anyway and they catch it for everything and that's what happened I think I had like 60 Squall driving charges um through both names and I ended up getting I think the first sentence I ever got was four months or five months for diso driving times six I think it were and loads of no insurance and etc etc I think actually another one was fraudulent use of a tax disc when you used to have to have to have them in your window in your car yeah um and I went into Glen parva in Lear absolute crazy jail for young offenders you know everyone's got something to prove and this fights every five minutes because that person wants to batt this one and this one and next um and then I happen to go to an open prison um in in donc castar and the first initial time of going to prison I thought it was a bit of a breeze and I just what was the all the worry about for this you know going there [ __ ] in my pants but when I actually landed in there it wasn't as bad as a it was going to be and it wasn't a uh it wasn't something that was going to be keeping me from not going back put it that way right and because I was homeless and you know always in and out of different hostels or on the streets being in prison for me was a bit of clean time I had a roof over my head and three meals a day right so it wasn't something that was and a sense of community as well in a way sort of way sort of a place of belonging maybe yeah I met I met friends in there right you know and well you have to you have to make friends in there to to to help you with your sentences to say was that the appeal of the gang life as well was it about I mean it would be an easy thing maybe for me to kind of psychoanalyze it and go you know you had a very unhappy um childhood in terms of your family Dynamic is that what the grooming means you know when they say people were groomed into gangs is it is it a does that mean you feel like it's a family like it's a place of belonging or is have I just oversimplified no no no that's exactly it it is having that sense of belonging uh my family again you know family was found on the streets instead of in my own home bearing in mind all that stuff has already just happened to me as a child anyway and that took me away from family to be fair and you know it kind of like what made it worse is once it had come out that that had happened to me as a child and I was going through all them confusing thoughts and them angry thoughts towards people that I shouldn't have even had them thoughts towards um no one cared I didn't feel anybody cared no one helped tried to help direct me in the right way M um so that's where I found that with friends on the streets so it kind of took me away from my home and my parents and distan me a lot a lot more than what I were originally anyway so yeah it was quite I I actually the first initial time that I actually met people as such that was on the streets was in a youth club and I was doing some boxing at the time and I tried to put my anger and frustrations into something positive and the coach had noticed you know that was hanging around a little bit and he tried like he tried to take me under his wing and pull me in and that's where I started to do the boxing and I was doing it in there but the youth club had a lot of older Lads and stuff in there so I was more drawn to the older Lads more than I were the boxing even though I did well with the boxing I didn't last I lasted a couple of years but I was still in being introduced to these older Lads and I was more out still on the street doing things under the radar as well as the boxing until I then got bored because I was more interested in the streets right and if I'm in boxing that means I'm not out on the streets with the people I want to hang around with absolutely so that's what took me away from it and I was you know I was pushed into doing different things robbing shops cars Etc and you know having fights in the streets having weapons and just don't is there someone sort of telling you what to do you know if someone's listening to this who doesn't know anything about gangs apart from what they see in a movie or something is there sort of like sort of like someone who's the head of it sort of like controlling activity criminal activity that you do is it about rival territory like I know it can be in London or how does a sort of daily nuts and bolts work of being in a gang I appreciate that's a very question I just ask you um listen at the end of the day most of that lifestyle is organized crime anyway it is of course it has to be organized you have to depending on what you're going to be doing if you're going to just do a ride out on somebody because you've got a bit a grief with this person you it will be planned it's not something that's just going to be like oh yeah we'll just catch him tomorrow it'll be you'll be planning and where you're going to find these people to get done what you need to have done um and crimes as such you know if you're going to be committing a crime you You' if we was going to let's say for example steal a car and there's a shop that we want to go and rub we'd make sure that that would be planned a couple of days before when we go to do that so yeah it's organized but to say like you know having somebody there that's telling you exactly what you've got to do you don't need anybody telling you what to what you've got to do because you already know so for example if one of your mates has been beat up two days before you already know what's going to happen now there's no plan there's no right you now need to make sure that you go to blah blah Street and that needs to be dealt with it's it's it's inevitable that's going to happen yeah just out of Revenge for what's just happened to your mate so like as I say it's you're you're you're more of a family and a group of friends more than a gang obviously this day and age you've got a load of named gangs from different areas and Estates and this postcode and that postcode we didn't really we didn't really so much have that really we was just a mass group of friends friends that we would stick together and we'd be loyal and respectful to each other if one one of us have got a problem we've all got a problem yeah and that's how it used to roll really um but yeah no I wouldn't say we've ever ever ever been told what to do we just take it upon ourselves to do it yeah and it's interesting as well because I think you know when you when you sort of feel like you're close to a group or with someone else you get a lot of the chemicals as well that would give you as well natur as well so for me it's quite interesting I think there's a and I'm sure you know you've connected these dots many times there sort of a link isn't there I think towards the drug use and and the appeal of a gang that come quite clearly from you know the start that you had and the experiences that you had would I be right in thinking that when you came out of prison you put the gang life behind you and and but the the drug use continued was it is that the right timeline of events after that uh up to about 2013 yeah right so 10 10 years ago yeah really I mean I'd still I was still dribing and drabbing it was my life it was really difficult to get away from yeah must have not to the fact of being scared to get away from it because no one had allow me it was just entrenched in in me I just couldn't see any way out if I did attempt to try and change my life around I'd always end up going back to what I knew yeah so it was really really hard to change that mindset of you know not living that lifestyle anymore because I'd committed crimes and done some crazy things all of my life and I did find some some excitement out of that yeah of course I did I wouldn't have done it for so long but you know where where there comes Good Times there was also so a lot of bad times yeah and it because it must be a buzz as well even when you're doing something you know that is potentially very dangerous or whatever you must get you know a hit of adrenaline I would imagine there is a buzz about that that maybe is even potentially addictive in some way I don't know yeah no yeah yeah it was quite addictive having scraps you know running and hunting around around for people and you know looking for a tear up and you know doing your little planned things as to say that you that you've got on the agenda to get to get done and completed yeah of course and then obviously there's the there's the the buzz of it where you're not you're not getting caught and stuff you you know like it's it's always a cat and mouse game when it comes to the police you know all is they need is that one lucky day and they've caught you and it's like oh yeah Fair dudes you know I've probably got away with about 70 other things and you CAU me for the hands up do you know what I mean yeah um and that's that I think that's how it kind of is with everybody to be honest with you and I think but this day in the generation that we've got now no one even cares if they get caught or not you know there there people go out there like bracing with no all their faces can be seen quite clearly with going out there doing what they're doing now there's no care in the world now everything's about a reputation but you know a lot of things that young people don't understand at the moment yeah having that reputation is good but when you get 20 years shoved up your ass that reputation is come gone within six months of you being locked up no one cares about you anymore mate do you know what I mean and this is and this is the thing that I wish I would have seen all that time ago because I probably wouldn't have done after the stuff that I'd done if I'd have realized that back then definitely so yeah we definitely come on to that because I think that's something really important to talk about you know about how you run your workshops and and really educate these these young people which is just amazing what you do you know it really is incredible how did you ultimately do you think get out of that kind of Gang Lifestyle what was it was it a decision you made one day was it a sort of a gradual process um how did you how did you sort of leave that that life behind CU it sounds like you were just completely entrenching it like was it just like a moment where you thought you wanted to do something else or I got that wrong well no I've been because I've I have been involved with it for a while and and the thing is I used to use that term no trouble always finds me or do I go and find the trouble which one is it you know so and I've been involved with um excuse me I've been involved with a couple of different gangs here and there over the course of the last 10 years yeah like brick stone or you know Hackney or whatever because I just seem to find it anything that involves making money right I kind of got I used to just stare into that right into that direction um which is half the reason how I got back on the heroin in the first place to be honest with you because again I was like involved with it again and you know this time it was selling it again but it wasn't so much I was taking it so you you you have to be involved in said members to be doing that you know so it again for me to get away from it it was it was the breakdown in 2016 yeah otherwise I'll probably still be doing it now Goa to be honest with you because it the way you described it to me off a with the heroin you know we were talking about it I said you know what was the moment and obviously I I'll let you put it in your own words but it seems almost in a way that the two moments kind of merged in a way that you just had this sort of like Moment of clarity some people call call it don't they in recovery like the gift of desperation or just this moment describe to us what happened with the heroin and what you know that day when you decided to turn you back on that because it sounds similar to you know you changing your whole life really including the gang life yeah yeah it it it was about it was because I was living in this house now and I'd obviously lost the kids I I was still seeing Leon and Laney um because I wasn't I was allowed to still see them with um because I was mentally ill and I was unstable to be around anybody to be fair um but it was just this this one morning um I'd Woke Up This is three months in now this one morning I'd woke up and I was feeling a little bit unwell as you do cuz you're withdrawing and um and I just laid there and I thought and I looked around and I was like what am I doing like why am I doing this again like what kind of a situ because this is the thing when you're under the influence you don't think about all this stuff or you do but you don't mean it cuz you're off your nut so you're saying all this stuff oh yeah that you know tomorrow is a different I'm going to stop this tomorrow I've had enough of this but you're off you're not so you don't mean what you're saying because then you wake up in the morning and you're call turkey and then you're back on it again because you don't want to feel ill yeah you know as soon as the logic penetrates through you like just use again and then you won't then you think about ex yes exactly that so it that didn't happen for me that day I woke up and I was in I just I did feel ill yeah and um and I told myself literally I don't want to do this anymore I generally don't want to do this anymore I've had enough i' I'd lost complete desire for it yeah it had it had gone in my head I've finished I've had enough and that day was the day that my my partner Carla um bearing in mind we had separated at that point she sent someone to knock on the window where I were um and it was my son's first day of nursery and she it was the first time that she'd been on her own without the kids cuz obviously I weren't allowed to see them at that point because of the drug use and the mental health stuff so so she sent this woman to knock on the window she knocked on the window and obviously like you you're in a house with drug users and you're paranoid like who's the [ __ ] like who is that so like I'm curing like who's that like and it was her and she's like someone's here to see you and I was like who's that then I weren't expecting anybody and I I you know I followed her up to her house and they call her were in the car she like looked at me I looked at her she's like what are you [ __ ] doing and I was like I don't want to do this anymore like I generally don't want to do this anymore I've had enough and um she told me about my court case that I had coming up which I didn't even know about and this was for the judge to decide you know what the what was going to go happen going moving forward and I I attended the court I hadn't used I was like I'm not going to use so I I didn't use and they you know they gave me three months to basically sort myself out and to get down Support Services to you know get some drug testing done and you know try and get myself under the straight and Nara whether that be with a script or something you know like methodone um and that's what I did so was that your path through it was it methodone or subex or something like that so it was it was methodone but I know methodone is quite painful to come off in itself rather than more heroin you know so um the only way that I was going to slow down the withdrawals is to go onto something that's going to you know keep me off of it yeah off of the heroin so I went down to a service called cgl yeah um and I went in that service and I you know presented myself I got triaged and they put me on I think it was about 30 milligrams at first of methodone so that methodone at that point was holding me yeah so I I didn't need to use because that was holding me just well and that gave me an opportunity to do something that I'd never done before which was open up and share anything that I feel that could be affecting my mental state as to the reason why I keep falling back into that same trap and was that was that Mutual support groups at cgl that they were putting together or was that with a like a therapist or I was having one to ones with a uh my care care coordinator yeah um who I'd known for some time actually um I've known him for years and I was doing oneto ones with him and that I found out about another service which was a recovering service recovery service called Ezra yeah um and that was an abstinent based service and they was running groups smart groups yes yeah and I initially started going to the smart groups um through Ezra which was in a cgl building yeah uh I at first I did put my nose up to it because I thought what the hell do I want going sitting with people I was very judgmental you know I was a bit of a knob but I I know why do I want to share my stuff with them like you know I'm not like them yeah yeah well actually I am do you know what I mean like you know so common isn't it and and obviously I'd not shared any of that stuff before so like Jesus this is going to be a really difficult thing for me so I sat with it and on some occasions I walked out worse than I walked in you know mentally depressed listening to other people's stuff you know it was quite flatlined as uh I think it just depends on who's facilitating sure um and nothing wrong with because I know I know the facilitator really well you know he's I know him very very well I I just I just couldn't click with it yeah right okay so I met another another friend of mine Stewart he's military he had an alcohol issue and we did this intuitive thinking course together for about 3 months okay like intuitive recovery Yeah Yeah from born in bread in Manchester that that program yeah yeah it's brilliant I've done it myself brilliant so I did that course oh my God where was that course on my life right so that course changed every aspect of how I looked at myself and addiction yeah and from then on that I was breezing it just through that program wow and uh it then turned out you know both me and Stuart did it and we we wanted to put a program together for ourselves called your choice recovery yeah um because it's your choice you know and we put a program together that didn't really look at the the drug or the alcohol itself we looked at everything else around in it responsibility self-esteem uh change acceptance etc etc yeah and we put that through as a as a as a whole module and we took it to the management and they they read for it and they said crack on get that you know go and run that group so we voluntarily did that every Thursday night within 3 weeks we had that up to 28 people a night wow um that's great yeah that's really great so and I volunteered in that service uh for 4 and a half months every single day from 8:30 to 4: every day even that if that was scrubbing the toilet with a toothbrush I was in there yeah um we've got a similar experience I I volunteered somewhere called SHP the single homeless project which is connected to the drug and alcohol service in Islington and Camden and you know they they uh you know I volunteered a lot of someone called the Margaret Center I don't if you know where that is around Warren Street and um you know it was great seeing the pathway there there wasn't a cgl there but you'd see people like yourself you know they put them on a scripts they' have access to different group work and and it was incredible seeing people come through that so you know anyone listening to this you know your local drug and alcohol service you know I know sometimes it can be a bit of a postcode Lottery but you know go down there and inquire but definely yeah sorry carry on yeah so yeah I did that for like 4 and a half months and there was a job r that came up um cuz they had two projects they had one in uh hastens which was the one that I was volunteering in and they had one in eastborn called Cafe North and they was looking for a coordinator of the cuff and a management of the cuff as well basically mirror Imaging this is the service that was in Hastings right so I went for the job bearing in mind I've not really ever done an application for a job before didn't have a clue uh but um the manager Ali who's a really good friend of mine and she's taught me everything that I know when it comes to that kind of Workforce everything you I can know I always thank her on podcast like she's she's at my B she's like my second mom and I didn't get the job the first time around cuz when it was my first ever interview so they're asking you your questions on Safeguard and what would you do in this situ that situ and I didn't have a clue well I you know I winged it yeah but I could have done better right so I didn't get it first time around and then three days later they founded me back and they said um are you still up for that job and I was like well I didn't get it well you know the person that originally went for the job we've now opt into the management so we're going to offer you the coordinator amazing I was like yes sign me up I want the job and the rest is history wow with with that you know I've been in invol in and out of that same service now for five years yeah so whenever I'm um not working in in in let's say youth work I then go back to Ezra and I work for them again amazing um and I worked up to senior whilst I was with that service and and I have everything to thank for for that service yeah absolutely I mean it's absolutely brilliant Carl I mean we spoke on the phone didn't we yesterday about it and uh you know this word willpower came up and I know I know that you're a big advocate for that and I think I think willp power gets a bad rep in recovery is super important but I'll probably just throw something else in the mix if I may I also think that you've got a real strong sense of what the Japanese called iky this this this idea of purpose because I think it's amazing there's definitely this real strong sort of Will and character that's come through to get you where you are undoubtedly there's absolutely no question about that but on top of that you've really thrown yourself into community and purpose I think to kind of really supercharge your recovery because that's kind of your whole thing isn't it it's about giving back it's about um going into the alcohol and drug services and giving back there and also with all the youth work yeah is that the kind of inspiration you think the kind of don't mean to be cheesy about it but the kind of air Beneath Your Wings that keeps you keeps you in recovery now this sense of strong sense of purpose purp that you've got I think one of the main points for me was finding my identity because I didn't know who I were because you've got to you've got to imagine you've had so many years in addiction you've completely lost you so it's about finding you again but it's now going to be a new you so it's basically being you reborn yeah so you're never going to remember the person that you used to be so it's about creating somebody new yeah and that's what I did and I did that through the work that I was doing so each person that I was helping and supporting through through the service I was working for yes my lived experience was helping with that but every individual is different to the next and they've all lost their identity they don't know who they are anymore because the life that they're living is day in day out is addiction sure so it's about trying to kind of give them that back of letting them know exactly who they are and what they can achieve yeah and I be that person that's sat in that chair as as as a ambassador to that to know that you can be somebody you can achieve it but these are the things that you need to do to do it yeah um and be you know I've had people sitting in front of me in a service that I used to use for support and I used to say and I you know you're not supposed to share everything about your personal life when you're doing support work because then it turns into being about you instead of about the client so I used to give them a little bit on the table give a little taster give him a little taster see the seat that you're sitting in right now yeah yeah I used to sit in that seat four years ago yeah in front of somebody like you're doing with me right now do you see how far you can go if you put your mind into it amazing and then they're like oh my God and then these people some of these people are still doing bloody well to this day and you know it's about finding the best solution for that for that client and every client that you have as I've just said is different to the next so it's about finding what's best for them some people might want to go to to to the to meeting rooms some people don't some people's had a bad experience with a meeting room some some people haven't so it's about you know not it's not all hats or whatever the word you use if it's all it's not the case absolutely so if it was me and you'd be very rich right we could just hand someone a pamphlet and go there's your recovery package do that we be loaded Would we that was a pound please bit more I think I know I'll probably give it free um but no yeah yeah and that's I think yeah it's about identity and I think the reward that I I was feeling from that was really beneficial um and to see that everybody was doing really well that you work with not everybody I'm not going to say you can't help everybody and the fact it's not it's so much about you helping they got to help themselves yeah um and you can't be a rescuer in that line of work you know CU that's just not going to happen but I think when you do start seeing successes that are coming out of clients that you're actually working with that gives you more of a drive yeah and and it makes you feel really good about yourself and then it makes you look at yourself and you're thinking like you know look at where I were 5 years ago being in the same position that these people are now and to be honest with you I've had people sit in front of me and I Think Jesus Christ is that how bad my life was and that in itself is a turnoff so that then gives you another drive to actually make it so their life is better yeah do you know what I mean it's it can be better it is better this is you've just got to do this this this and this and this and as the main point is to be the minute that you drop out of services because you think you're cured now for example is the minute that you're in trouble yeah because you you'll get some people that will go into a service they'll crack it out for about three months and then you don't see anything cover them and then eight months later they're back in the service again because they fell off the wagon sure why have you fell off the wagon oh I know I should have kept up with the service I should have kept up with the groups that was good you've just said it for yourself you know exactly what you should have been doing it takes longer than 3 months I think when they talk about um a psychiatrist would say the first the first most danger risky periods is up to the first 12 months absolutely so when you get past that 12 months yes you still do need to have time to yourself of course you do you need to recuperate you can't fill up seven days a week of doing stuff because you've got no time to sit align with your own thoughts and emotions at the minute that you do then get five minutes to yourself for your own emotions but you filled up your whole time you're going to struggle yeah so you still do need to have that Sunday yeah worst day boringest Day Ever sit at home with yourself and just you know pay attention to your surroundings you know are you in touch with the environment around you you know do you listen to the birds in the morning can you hear the trees whistling with the with the wind that's blowing you know take some time for yourself because that is the best point because then you can sit and reflect on how your week's actually gone which then you can then plan for next week yeah you know it's just like and these are sort of things that you're doing going forward as well for for yourself do you think not anymore yeah no um I I tend to now not live in how can I put it I tend to now not live in the past sure so I'm quite luckily I'm I'm lucky I'm quite comfortable in my life um I've got I have got a good support network around me yeah the difference that I've found that's made things a lot easier for me now if I've got something that's bothering me I talk about it and I don't let it bottle up so it can be at that risk that it could go in another Direction I don't let it get that far yeah um even if people don't want to listen to it I know I bite my M's ears off constantly all the time she's like will you shut up and I'm like yeah all right well I've got it off my chest now anyway see you later and then off I go off on me on me travels and go and do what I've got to do I'm really really comfortable I'm literally I don't use the word never because that's a stupid word to use and I've used that many many times and I fell on my ass numerous times after I've said never I don't use that and I and I just I wake up every day um yes life is stressful it's life yes you're going to be around people that piss you off that's life yes you're probably going to have moments where you know you're questioning things that's life sure it's how you deal with it which matters you know and that's what makes you stronger that's where your power is AB yeah definitely yeah yeah I mean you know all those things that that you you know we've been talking about you know the gang life being an active addiction it takes so much energy you know it's obviously in a negative way but you've completely flipped all of those attributes into a positive and it's just turned into drive yeah you know and and and all these brilliant projects I mean project youth is absolutely fantastic you know it's it's an amazing thing that you've set up and and that you're doing um and it's really needed I mean I I I pulled some stats off from the Ben conill trust yeah uh there's a 3% increase in police recorded offenses evolving a knife or sharp instrument uh in the last 12 months months um 50,8 33 recorded knife or sharp instrument offenses nationally knif knife crime is up 76% over 10 years and in London it's up 21% in the last year yep and most victims teenage boys um I know that you work you know with with young people to empower them which is something I'm really passionate about through Performing Arts in a different way yeah what sort of things do you say to I don't know say a young lad who's who's in a gang who's maybe got similar life to what you had back then what sort of things get through to someone like that who's just really angry and sort of hellbent on this lifestyle you have to so let me just let me just say quickly like with project just how project you was born really yeah of course um so we have just spoken about like the addiction I then uh got offered to do some restorative work with sausage police for a lady called Nikki that was speaking with kids that was Guy missing from home and their parents didn't have a clue where they were and they was getting involved in in pretty serious stuff so I'd go ahead and I'd talk about my life to them um and the dangers obviously the stabbings and stuff and my power that was murdered them stories come out because they're they're gruesome and they're what need to be heard yeah uh which then LED on me to be working with an Early Intervention Program through Via saex Police that was funded by the home office which for itself because of criminal record that I've got and never thought in a million years I'd ever be able to get a job like that and I did I did that role for two and a half years worked all the way through covid I was supporting kids even through covid taking out the most vulnerable taking them for walks and that was why my own family was still having to be locked behind closed doors because of the virus uh I was recognized I was nominated for a best newcoming youth award within seven months work um and that was out like the whole of UK throughout the YMCA the D dlg that's across all the country um I was covered on the news for that line of work as well and I found my Niche with youth work that was when youth work for he was born I then uh we me and my partner was having a discussion on our sofa why don't we just set up our youth project let me just set let's just set one up because I was sick to death of being told what I can and can't say um and you know sticking with certain rest tapes with like the you know the corporate the staty services that you have to stick with certain things you can't say that oh you can't say that oh you can't say that why can't I it's stuff that helps the kids need to hear hear this type of stuff you more than you'll be the best person to know what need to hear you exactly so we took a risk um we sat down on our sofa we built a website um and uh April this year we managed to get as a cic and we launched the project in May what's a cic community interest company right okay because it as an interest for the for the community everything I do yeah everything we do so you know it's all of an interest so in May that's how the project was born so the young people that I aim to to engage with are you know kids that are showing signs that they are at risk of being involved in serious violence or they are at risk of being groomed into or exploited into County Line drug gangs knife crime you know any other sort of crimes that young people are committing these days what I will do and because I'm the manager of the project as well as co-founder I can say whatever I want obviously to a limit I know what I can I can't say I'm not stupid you know and I know that certain things that you can say to kids can affect them I don't want to traumatize kids sure but I do still want to hit to the point to let them know that that lifestyle and that that path that they're just about to go down is not a great path at all I am living proof of that um it's so you know there there's a lot of pressures now on the streets with kids there's a lot of pressures which people are seeing from social media um you know you've got you you've got YouTube You've Got rap rappers now out that are are singing about shanking people and you know you've got all of these pressures yeah um and you've got like young people that have got the next best trainers or the next best tracksuits or you know they their they walking around with drugs in their pocket because they can afford to because they're selling this or they're selling that and this is what other kids are looking up to and they want to be like that and the the trouble with that is the dangers that actually come with it they don't understand the danger they think it's so easy it's an easy lifestyle to get involved in yeah anybody can do it oh yeah if I get sent to prison it's all right I'll have a mobile phone and Drugs in myself within a day no you won't you know it's very dangerous for you to have that it's very dangerous to you be selling drugs because there's going to be somebody that's walking behind you that's also wanting to sell drugs if you're doing better than them you're getting robbed unfortunately and what comes with a robbery is probably you're going to get some significant harm someone's going to stab you or hit you with a hammer or something there's a lot of dangers that come with it so these are the conversations that I have with the kids do you think these conversations would have prevented your story CU you know when I look at the back you know the backdrop and the circumstances leading up to it there sort of seems a sense of sort of inevitability about it in some way do you think an intervention like what you're doing with project youth would have put you down a different path do you think you have a role model like yourself I'd say so but we didn't have that back in the 90s yeah we didn't have much you know I spoke about my boxing trainer that was the only intervention really that I had yeah uh and that wasn't enough and I wasn't seeing him enough to be doing that um so I think you know the problem that we've got now in this day and age is funding there's no money being pumped into the these types of Services now our service we're running solely on ourselves so you know I I do private work where I've got parents that are pay me privately to Mentor their kids because of what they've seen from the newspapers and the the TV shows that I've been on um and I've got schools that are also paying me privately to run their workshops in there when it comes to actual funding from Government funding for core funding that actually pays me wages I don't get paid no wages right so what comes into the project goes straight back out thankfully we are working in partnership with sausage police and we're also getting some funding from the police inquir commissioner Katy Bourne thankfully so the money that they give me is for diversion reactivities for the children so whilst I'm mentoring the kids I get them something positive to go and do yeah so if they've got an interest in the gym which most kids do these days I'll pay for them for a Year's membership so they can go to the gym and I will also go and train with them that's amazing really um so that that's where that money goes but when it comes to wages I don't get no wages and I mean it's incredible what you're doing you know it really really is and I'm going to be putting in the show notes all the links so everyone can yeah you know follow and support and and you know on behalf of the podcast and myself like anything I can do to help please let me know and I will I will do that I mean you've had some amazing press haven't you uh you know on your Instagram this morning I was watching you sat next to Dr Hillary on the on on The Good Morning Britain sofa you know it it sounds like a matter of time before this all gets snapped up right I mean this is absolutely necessary Neary you know we need these on the streets like defibrillators or anything else right I mean you know you'll see me on Dragons Den soon I'll be in there selling me business to one of them I can't wait for that I'm going to be watching that tell me that's on I'll put a link to that as well in yeah but a serious note no so um so you know yeah so we have added added a different well you know a different a couple of little narratives to the project um the project does quite a lot of stuff I do you know I do talks I do walk in my shoes talks where I talk to professionals and Security Services and you know I was talking to you ear about you know the a company that I work with now within London so um but it was a couple of years ago there was a lady that lost her son in Birmingham and she came up with an idea that making it great for there to be Public Access um ble kits uh just due to the loss of her son and I didn't know anything about this um bearing in mind I've been doing knife crime work now for coming up to 5 years and you know I never never knew anything about ble kits until I'd spoken to a lady in Manchester called kelly who lost us on Romero and I'd came back down i' I said to someone not I knew I was like we need to get on these ble kits because this this ain't getting any better and that's how we found out and now I was sat on one kit for about six months no one wanted to let me put it up on the wall in esic and no one has managed to do it in esic it's been tried tested and failed and I managed to within six months yeah it was a battle I did think about giving up it was very very stress and it was a lot it was very time consuming but I didn't I I kept going with it and I managed to get our first box up at our local shopping center right in the middle of our town um and once I'd got that up um it had so much media coverage it was crazy um we had that day there BBC ITV GB news came and filmed that day and then um I had a company contact me he's now a good friend of mine Dave from ad training and he said look we've been trying to get up a kit for about 3 years and never got it off the ground I can't believe you've managed to get a kit up in Hastings what can I do to help you I was like what are you offering and he said have you thought about doing bleed control training around the boxers I said I haven't but I have now and he was like I'm I'm quite prepared to offer you this for free and we'll go and train members of the public to how to use these kits I said sweet let's crack it and that's what we did so I managed to get the first 15 members of the public together um and I booked a room we went there and we did the training in toe we had the times who came and filmed it as well as Good Morning Britain and uh two days after I'd done the training I was saying Good Morning Britain Studio putting a chest seal on Martin Lewis's chest yeah watch that it was quite surreal you know because in 2021 we did contact Good Morning Britain for the work that I was already originally doing and it just probably slipped slipped on through the net or in a junk box somewhere so you know like this is living I've been doing this for a while I've still got the email in my emails now I can show you We messaged them in 2021 and I didn't manage to get uh so it wasn't until the box was up that they people really sort of snapped on it they noticed yeah they recognized it and yeah and then you know instantly the minute that I'd come out of Good Morning Britain I am now their first portal contact for news channels when it comes to knife crime brilliant so you know they contact me with all different stories you know I've come I've come into contact with you know families that have lost their children sadly and because I want to do everything that I can to help these parents you know that gives them again it gives them you know some sort of drive to not only take their mind off of exactly what's just happened to their child but what we can do as a as a whole to try and make a difference and the change so other parents don't have to go through this and currently up to date uh we've got eight cabinets that have now been installed I've done woring Crawley I've got five cabinets up in Hasting um and I've got I've got another one that's due to be going up in London soon which I can't say yet where it's going to go I'll put it all out on my social media once I've done it but no one has even hit this Mark yet um so I've got one going up there as well and I've just put in an yeah definitely yeah and they they are needed you know and I've had really really good feedback from from members of the public we did an open um an engagement day with members of the public for knife crime week last week with ssex police I did I've trained probation offices now with bleed control I've trained I'm training businesses around with my local Council I've trained 30 30 members of the public and I've also trained 20 young people from year 8 10 and 11 so that's all been done since May wow and we're only in November you must be knacked I am tired yeah I am tired yeah but it's worth it you know I I'll sleep when I die yeah so it's just one of them you know and I do take some rest obviously I know part of your recovery is all about taking some time for yourself which is you know you drink the medicine that you give out to other people um and I do do that and my weekends is Chill time yeah um and Monday to Friday is what work work what work um because like I say it's just me and my partner that are running project youth so we need to get the project to have them foundation so we are able to next year show that the outcomes that we can get that we can gather for the project work which is why you need to fund us yeah because it works and I need to employ more people well I implore everyone listening to this podcast right now to get behind project youth in any which way we can it's absolutely needed I mean if anyone you know is proof that you can learn everything from your Rock Bottom I think it's you and absolutely flip it around in the most positive way I mean I highly highly commend your car mate I mean you you've absolutely done a complete 360 flip and are just on a on a mission helping other people do some night crime helping young people you know helping people in recovery you know and all the stuff you're doing I just think it's fantastic so it's got it's got to be done and like like I said you know it's that's that drive though I was talking about earlier you know that that drive that you flipped around immediately like it's got to be done I get sleep and I'm dead you know yeah no it's got to be I me my m is exactly the same I mean just like obviously we we talk about project Youth and we I've spoken about my partner as well and you know yes I have do do have social media for project youth but our social media that we both use together um is we've got our own brand name as as a couple he called Tu a Duo um and that's both for our Instagram and Tik Tok and you know we we do we do have some free time as I've said we've done a few TV shows you know we've just we're going to be on the new wife on strike for Channel 5 amazing yeah I heard about that so guys head to the show notes now we'll have a little chat off there in a minute and I'll and I'll get all the links there make sure you send me everything do CU I'm sure the people listening and watching are going to be like desperate to see all these things Carl I'm really sorry mate we're we our time limit here uh huge thanks mate thank you I've had a great time I'm going to be cheering you on from the sidelines well and if I can get involved in anyway honestly no definitely let me know um so yeah I'm going to leave it there Carl thanks again mate thank you and uh to those at home listening and watching uh please share this with anyone you think you're going to you know get a lot out of this conversation I'm sure there's everyone will uh please like subscribe follow rate all that you know sales pitchy stuff and as I promise every time I will see you in two weeks time take care of yourself see you soon thanks

Channel: Oliver Mason

Views: 942

Keywords: heroin, addiction, recovery, knife crime, gangs

Id: egKDyG4yTPQ

Length: 64min 39sec (3879 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 02 2024