Lauren Daigle and the Homosexuality Question

welcome to the Tuesday livestream I am Mike winger and we're gonna talk today about Lauren Daigle not specifically just about her but rather she was asked a really hard question recently and during an interview and her answer has caused no small stir in the online world in fact let me just share with you like if you just google Lauren Daigle look at the last stuff that's been up over the last week there's an awful lot of complaining about her there's a lot of attacks against her then there's a lot of people just trying to nicely respond to what happened others are defending her there's just a lot of controversy over this issue she was asked specifically about the topic of homosexuality and her response has stirred quite a lot so let me know if you guys see me there in the chat section I just wanna make sure that we're actually live and everything now I want to say this as a disclaimer I am NOT here to attack Lauren Daigle I don't know Lauren Diggle like I actually had to look up to find out what songs she does because I just I don't listen to music very much even though I'm a musician I'm kind of a weird musician when it comes to that stuff I just don't listen to music very often so I was like wait I've heard that song okay she has a beautiful beautiful voice and and she's got some songs that really meant a lot to a lot of people so I'm just I'm not attacking her right but I think that that her comments in this issue in this in this interview that they reveal an issue or a struggle that millions of Christians share and non-christians they share this struggle the struggle that we see her having in this interview is the same struggle that many of you actually have and I thought you know what maybe this can help maybe talking about this using this as an opportunity to talk about these issues can actually help because what if you're at your job someone at work asks you this question or it's an interview and they ask you this question or you're there's a camera someone points a camera at you and they ask you this question what would you do here's her interview here's her answers think how would you answer differently and it's you know what's the right perspective to have as Christians here we go I just say read the Bible and find out from the beginning like I just say read the Bible find out okay just a second here thank you stop okay here we go for real I hope I hate to do this to you Lord but I have some tough questions so is that all right if I ask you just a couple ones that are tougher and you can let me know if you want to answer them okay cool okay well this we're talking about Ellen do you feel that homosexuality is a sin you know I can't honestly answer on that innocence of I have too many people that I love that they are homosexual I don't know I actually had a conversation with someone last night about it and I think I can't say one way or the other I I'm not God so people when people ask questions like that that's what my go-to is like I just say read the Bible and find out for yourself because and when you find out let me know because I'm learning to wow your role already okay so ignore his comments for a second there at the very end that's Dominic Nattie I don't know much about him I just know he's a publicist of some kind and he has a radio show he obviously baited her with this question he was trying to create a controversial moment and now he's promoted it and now everyone's responding and it's kind of the way things are I'd like to use this to think about these issues and what I want to say is this from the very beginning AJ my buddy AJ is in the comment section for the live stream if you're watching live your comments he's monitoring and watching those comments you can put your questions for me in in the comment section now but I'm gonna ask AJ this please my friend give me the hard questions the hard questions that are on the topic of homosexuality give me those questions tonight if you could prioritize those and you guys please put those there it's I'm gonna don't be ashamed of asking those I don't want trick questions I'm not interested in word games but I'm very much interested in genuine hard questions to be able to answer those at the end of this stream because I know there's gonna be things I don't talk about that I probably should and maybe your questions will bring those issues out and we can have a very honest conversation about it so the question the question itself is Lauren's asked do you feel that homosexuality is a sin and I can just say this is a hard question but have you thought like why is it so hard why is it such a hard question for people now maybe you know it's not hard for you but for most people for a lot of people this is a tough question to be asked this and for one reason for two reasons it's hard really confusion and consequences I'll talk about the consequences first there's consequences on how you answer this question it can affect your career it could affect your your family it could cause discomfort between you and awkwardness as a weird confrontational moment suddenly pops up it could also cause people to distance themselves from you to disown you as a friend or even a relative I've had my own relatives separate themselves from me even planned gatherings and not invite me to them because of my position my answer to this question I've never separated from them I love my family but they have very much separated from me several of them because of this issue I'm not kidding and many of you know what I'm talking about there are consequences to how you answer this question that actually is why dominic nati the the the radio show host he answers her response by saying while you're a pro already because he's like hey that's clever like you you've you know you've kept your your core base by by by not saying it's it's okay and you've reached out to the other new listeners to your music as you're crossing over to the secular community you know by saying that you don't know and that you're kind of open and you're you're willing to hear people and so he says you're a pro already I'm not going to assume that this was a public a publicist decision if it is that's that's to me kind of despicable if it's a decision to to speak about spiritual truths and relationships with God and to make a decision to say something that may or may not be true just so that I could kind of like get more money or more fame or not upset people and to me that is consequences can't be considered right losing friends losing family getting ostracized losing her these cannot even be considered when it comes to speaking truth about Christ because these truths are eternal truths I'm not going to consider temporary consequences when I face eternal truths that may impact the lives of those around me and millions of people who might listen or even one person who listens depending so Jesus himself he says like you're gonna be hated by all men for my name's sake it's gonna happen people gonna hate you for my name's sake and so we need to we need to not think of our lives not consider our consequences as scripture says to not hold our lives dear to ourselves in that regard so that's easy consequences not an issue the other issue is confusion now that is an issue why is this a hard question for me still as a pastor as a Christian who's at least tries to be unafraid of consequences unafraid of what it would do to my youtube channel or what it would do to to my family relationships it grieves me but I'm not gonna hold back because of it I'm worried about confusion I'm worried that people won't understand what I'm actually saying because what I say and what I mean versus what they hear me say what they think I mean these are two radically different things for instance in politics especially when I was younger we would often hear these presidential debates right and the question of the presidential debates would be about like say a particular military act and the the politician would say something like oh I don't think we should have gone in there I don't think we should take that military action and then the accuser would turn to them and say something like so you don't support the troops and the politicians eyewall wait a minute don't say I don't support the troops you're gonna kill my career I don't mean that so they would all say I support the troops you know every politician says I support the troops I'm supportive of them because they're trying to avoid the confusion they want to be able to say look I can say I don't I don't think this military act was good I don't think we should do this that doesn't mean I don't support our troops I would say it's the same here I want to say hey homosexuality is a sin but then suddenly people don't understand what I mean and there's all this confusion they hear me say not homosexuality is a sin no no they don't hear that they hear Mike you hate gay people and you're a bigot that's what they hear and I could show you the the you know comments held for review on my channel of all the people on the few videos I've done on the topic where they're calling me all these names I mean like this is what it doesn't matter how well I explain my position they hear me wrong every time and that's gonna happen and I hate that confusion aspect it's like at least get mad at me for what I believe instead of for the confusion so they hear you hate gay people and you're a bigot when you're actually just saying I'm just saying homosexual behaviors the actions themselves are a sin before God the sexual behaviors that's the issue here for instance if I said that lying is a sin would you hear me saying you hate liars and you're a bigot no you just think lying is a sin you shouldn't do it if I say drunkenness is a sin does that mean I hate alcoholics or do I just think drunkenness is a sin you know if you're a parent if you've had kids you know what it's like to disapprove of their behaviors while loving them to in fact think their behaviors are wrong terribly wrong yet you still love your child and so I can love somebody while saying that something that they're doing is sinful but the world doesn't hear that sometimes sometimes they're they they just miss miscommunication right they don't understand what we're saying so that confusion is a bummer this is why a lot of Christians they're not afraid of their position being known they're afraid of their position being misunderstood hear us out like if you're a non-believer a non-christian or maybe you're a Christian who's who you've got off the reservation on this topic hear me out like God loves the world yet he calls out our sin just as it is Jesus says you know to the people in Jerusalem like woe to you yet he's grieved over it right he he calls out their sin the fact the first thing Jesus says and all of the Gospels the first world open preaching thing he does is says he says the word repent that's the first thing he does and that is an act of love it really is because the behavior and the person aren't the same and that's the other aspect of the confusion where we think that that when I say that homosexuality is sinful as if I'm referring to anything other than actual bedroom behaviors I'm not referring to two guys holding hands that can be acceptable and appropriate I'm not referring to two guys living together loving each other caring having compassion for one another or girls for that matter know that these aren't the issues you know if if if to peep they get married in the eyes of the world at least and they live their lives together and they seemingly have a really healthy loving relationship the thing that's wrong is what's happening in the bedroom that's what God says the Lord has told us like that is wrong okay so I'm I'm condemning or putting down or calling sin a particular activity that happens in the bedroom not the entire relationship because there's aspects of the relationship that are like brotherly and sisterly that are healthy and good that you could have with anybody it's it's the specific bedroom behaviors that we're talking about here so um let's I hope that clears up some of the confusion I guess there's one other confusion I want to clear up and that's this some people would say Mike why are you why are you harping on this issue why do Christians always talk about homosexuality I was looking at my channel over the past year I've made a lot of videos I usually do two videos a week sometimes three I made a lot of videos and you know how many of my videos have been about homosexuality zero yet when I'm interviewed or talking to someone who's on especially an atheist Channel guess what what issue they always bring up they always bring up homosexuality because this is the this is the issue the world is bringing up so as Christians we're responding to what is the hot topic of the world right now the confusion of the world I'll talk a little more about that later but let's get into Lauren's answer of this question do you feel that homosexuality is a sin she offers at first three statements that give sort of a non-answer and I think this is something that a lot of Christians would feel and Lauren I understand I think at least some of the reason why you might have shared these things you know and um I here's the statements right you she says I can I can't honestly answer that I can't honestly answer that I don't know I can't say one way or the other these are the phrases that come out I guess the bottom line here is the questions it is it a sinner is it not a sin right is it a sinner is it not a sin and to get in the middle is not as bad as some people think let's be honest Lauren did not come out and say it's not a sin it's acceptable it's totally fine and demonized people who think it's a sin she didn't do that she didn't come out and say that she's not advocating for homosexual you know lifestyle and things like that I don't want to pretend that she is and I don't want to ovary to her and I don't want you to do the same either and think that she is that's just not the case so she says I'm not saying it dissent I'm not saying it's not I guess my only question for her and for you as well if this has been if you've been asked and you said I don't know I'm not sure and you found that without released the pressure in that hard moment I just have the question were you being honest is it really that you don't know is it really that you don't know or is it potentially one of maybe another issue like shame you're just ashamed you kind of know the truth but you're just you just feel shame you feel this emotional sense of shame because the world is so let's be honest and I'm on the receiving in to this and I feel that the world is very hateful towards Christians who lovingly hold to the truth of Christ in the scriptures that the world is hateful and even churches are hateful sometimes to people who will do this so it was it shame was it I will not speak openly and honestly on this topic because I'm just embarrassed of the truth well then don't say you don't know realize that you have a spiritual battle going on where your mind is being corrupted by the lies of the world and it's it's not true but let let it let yourself wrestle with the real issue here it's not that you don't know it's that you're ashamed because of the pressure of the world versus the Lord and you're not sure which one you want to pick or was it tact I guess that's another issue as it could have been tact it could be I'm saying I don't know because I'm trying to avoid having to talk about the issue and I think again here that is us dropping the ball it's easy to be a light when all you do is talk about the love of God when it becomes challenging is when you talk about the sin of man any issue of sin any issue of sin you know when you're when you're confronted with these things and you say no I'm in a hold to the truth of God's Word you're gonna you're gonna suffer for it intact becomes compromise and compromise becomes something that you're not certainly not gonna be eternally happy about so if that was you I don't know if those things might help but I want to focus on now is the reasons that she gave there's three reasons that Lauren gave for her answer to this question and I think these reasons are very revealing not just Lauren but but uh I think a lot of people would answer it this way and so the first one was I have too many people that I love that are homosexual so these are now reasons why she says I can't answer no if is that logical to say I've got a lot of people I love that are that are homosexual so I can't I can't say that it's wrong do you do you really think that's logical is that rational like let's take it away from the emotional the heightened emotional level that we're often at in these issues and just say is it rational to say that if I love you I can't say that what you're doing is wrong and to this I just want to say like you you've got family right like you have friends who've done wrong things and you love them and because you love them you say what you're doing is wrong it's because of the love that you openly express the truth about the issue you say that what you're doing is wrong because I love you I've got to tell you this is an intervention in fact I got I was on a phone call earlier today with a guy who's preparing to do an intervention with a girl who's just totally trapped in this cult group and I've done some content on that group so he called me was like hey can we talk and you give me some some some ideas on what they're like how they brainwash people that kind of thing and they're preparing an intervention you see they're doing this and it's not going to be fun and it's gonna cause division in the family and it's gonna cause a whole stressful opportunity or event with all of them but he's like I'm gonna go over there her family's asked me to come we're gonna do an intervention because they love her see because they love her they got to tell her it's wrong because they love her it's the same way you know I've had alcoholics in my family because I love them I can't encourage them and if they came to me we're like Mike you know do you think my alcoholism is a problem do you think me drinking every day to the point of intoxication is an issue I would say I love you too much to tell you anything other than yes it's an issue because I care about you this this seems basic stuff so I have too many people that I love that are homosexual that means I really can't be on the fence I better find out whether this is right or wrong because either I should encourage you or I should pull you away from that lifestyle if I possibly can because it's a wrong thing the the second thing she had mentioned is that she's not God Lauren said specifically that she was not God and that that was like a reason why she can't say whether you know homosexuality is a sin or not I think it's a really important point right you're not God I'm not God and that does mean that it's not let's be careful here in our analysis of this idea it means that it's not my it's not up to me it's not up to my opinion whether it's right or wrong it means it's out of my hands the issue of whether or not this is a sin is not up to me nor is it up to anyone else on earth because we're not God so I think we can hopefully we can agree on that topic right it's not up to man to decide what's right and wrong it is God who reveals these truths to us but it is not up to us but the fact that you're not God does that mean you can't call it a sin I don't think so I think it just it simply means that if God calls it a sin you have to echo that because you're not God it's not up to you if God says it's okay then you have to echo that because it's not up to you because you're not God you're resting on his authority we've all been in that situation where well most many of us have right or you're working for a company and your company has policy that rescues you from an angry customer where you know they any customers like I want to return this thing I don't like this thing it didn't work or something like that and you look at and you go oh well it's already been opened and used and because it's say it's an electronic device our company policy is we cannot receive this this for return after it's electronics and it's been opened so we we just can't do the exchange I'm sorry the thing is we use this word policy to rescue us because then the customer knows when you say it's policy you're saying it's not up to me guys I I couldn't if I wanted to that's a humble position and that's my position on sin I go Lord what's your policy on this issue it's not up to me and because I'm not God I therefore don't have a say I just have to bow down to what God Almighty has declared on the on the topics of life because he is God and I recognize he is God so there's there's the danger though let me take you to a scripture to share this with you there's a danger that I want to share with you guys and it is this this idea in Isaiah chapter 5 and I think it's in verse 20 where he says woe to those who call evil good and good evil and who put darkness for light and light for darkness who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter this this concept woe to those who call good evil and evil good this is exactly what it means to play God it actually putting yourself in God's position is to say I'm gonna remake morality based upon my opinions I'll just say you know I've decided that it's the 20th century it's 2018 and you know homosexuality it's entirely acceptable and it is good even though God called it something evil the sinful behaviors the bedroom behavior is not not talking with a an accent that to identify with homosexuality not not a guy that is a little bit more feminine in his characteristics or a girl that's a little more masculine that's actually not even the issue right we're talking about the bedroom stuff right so me playing God is me switching evil for good and saying God you call it sin I'm gonna call it good now you're playing God that is the danger here that's actually challenging God and going against God and what he says is right and wrong and it goes way back to Isaiah's time they were like hey they were calling evil good and good evil and he goes don't do that God is declare it and they go oh Isaiah those old morals of the law they're so like outdated and last hundred years ago so last age you know Bronze Age we're not interested in that kind of stuff anymore and it doesn't matter you know God has declared it I'm not God I have no right to change what he says so in all reality this second statement of Laurens you know I'm not God if it actually means that I should bow to God and what he has said on the issue and the first statement it also actually supports me finding the answers and then going to my friends who were in this lifestyle and saying do I need to call them to come out out of love and compassion for them and then her final statement was this she said read the Bible and this was actually really interesting that she said that she says read the Bible and find out for yourself and when you find out let me know because I'm learning too now I'm gonna take this at face value okay it's possible that she's blowing smoke but I'm gonna take it at face value because if I'm not sure I like to take people at face value and take them as though they're speaking honestly to me but so then this is face value statement this is actually really good um what it would mean is that Lauren like a lot of Christians like maybe some of you you honestly are confused about the issue and even though you you read the Bible but you don't really feel like you clearly know what the Bible actually says about the topic of homosexuality you feel torn you feel confused you've heard a few things here and there and it's made you go I don't really know what the scripture teaches on this topic anymore and so let's look at the Bible so back to the text of Scripture let's find out what it says here we go I'm gonna give you just a few verses and I have an extensive I've put a link in the video description I have an extensive four-part series I did a couple years back on this topic and I deal with thoroughly what the Bible teaches about it in and oh man it's like if you really want the full download that's right there I deal with it all but let's look here at Romans 1:26 we'll look at a sample of some passages it says for this reason Romans 1 by the way is this this sort of condemnation on mankind it's exposing how man has fallen and sinned as a group we just we just have fallen into sin and rebelled against God and the result is that God gives us over so that we we would just become even worse we reject God so then we embrace sin and God allows us into that and Romans 1:26 it says for this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions dishonorable passions does that is desires that are wicked every desires not wicked but there are some desires that are not not good that are wicked so for their women look at the description their women exchanged the natural relations for those that are contrary to nature and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error so this is this is a passage that is is interesting as the word homosexual is not used here no no it's it's actually a description of the actual behaviors themselves women and men have a natural use which according to the Bible what's the natural proper sexual relationship between man and woman marriage one man one woman in marriage together and Jesus affirms this I'll get to Jesus a little bit later you wonder what Jesus says about this topic we'll get to that in a few minutes so this is saying hey you know instead of marriage what they've done is they've burned and they've directed their their lusts towards the wrong things right instead of this purity of marriage it's it's men with men and women with women so this is a clear New Testament condemnation of this topic some people they try to play games with history and play games as greek and things like that i actually deal with that in my video series it's linked below it's the second video in the playlist where i talk about this passage and all that stuff but the the obvious reading of the passages right specific behaviors are defined and and at this point somebody might say mike why does God care about my sex life why does God care about my sex life and to this I just say like people who care about you care about your sex life like that's just reality if you if you're a parent and you have like a fifteen-year-old girl you care about her sex life if you're a child and you have like a 40 year old mom we just got divorced and now she's maybe looking around you care up you care doesn't mean you want to nose in but you certainly care it matters why because sex is this beautiful wonderful thing that happens between husband and wife it's sacred it's glorious it's amazing it's mystical it's wonderful and because it's so wonderful it's super important because it's super important it can easily be distorted disgusted twisted and harmful and God cares because he cares about you yeah he made you he created you and he he of course cares about these issues for those who mock God for caring about their sex life so to speak I do hear this sometimes because I listen to a lot of atheist content online and skeptics I just do they they don't yeah that that kind of sarcasm and ignoring of the real issues is not helpful to anybody so first Corinthians 6:9 this is another passage and all it's the one more passage I'll go to from Paul on the topic of homosexuality and it's actually really interesting it specifically talks about a list of people here who will not go to heaven right I say go to heaven it-it's a colloquial term I mean that they will not have eternal life and so in 1st Corinthians 6:9 it says or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God do not be deceived and then it's gonna give a list a list of the kinds of people who will not inherit the kingdom of God this whole list it's inclusive everything on this list is included in the in this group who will not inherit the kingdom but it's prefaced with this phrase do not be deceived because it says like the scripture saying this is a deception people fall into they think that these sins are suddenly okay they think that it's okay to live a lifestyle of practicing these sins so don't be deceived on it don't be tricked don't fall into that trap then it goes on he says neither the sexually immoral that's a catch-all phrase right you're sleeping around that's out an outside of marriage sexual promiscuity yeah you're practicing that yeah you're you're not going to heaven you're not making it idolaters nope adulterers no nor men who practice homosexuality nor thieves nor greedy nor drunkards nor revilers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God and such were some of you see there were there's former former homosexuals that were part of the early church former adulterers former sexually immoral former idolaters former thieves former greedy and drunkards and revilers and swindlers and they had come to Christ in their lives were changed and they were living a godly life but he says don't be deceived those lifestyles you're living out of Christ that is condemnable behavior this word though this is where the greek comes in I'll go to the highlight this is in the ESV version actually have a footnote here they the words they translate as nor men who practice homosexuality that phrase in the in the Greek here's what they say about it the two Greek terms oh you can actually see the footnotes the way my software works I'll just read it to you the two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts that's what it refers to these these words are arsenic coitus and Malik Oi these two words refer to active and passive partners if you think of two men who are participating in particular then you have an active and you have a passive you know one receptive person forgive the language this is this is the issuer we're talking about today so these words that's what they mean now some people want to act like the Greek is confusing here and we don't know what these words mean Matthew vines who is a pro-gay advocate and really one of the staunch supporters of changing churches and changing Christian theology to support homosexual behavior he says that we don't know what these words mean and that's why for 1,900 years they were treated as unclear and this is this couldn't be more untrue there's a lot of nonsense going around when it comes to Greek you know people try to Greek over your head a lot right they go Wilma Greek well historically and sometimes they're informing you and helping you and sometimes they're just trying to talk over your head so they can take advantage of your lack of knowledge in those areas the words themselves arsenic white Oz it's referring to the active partner Malik oi is the passive partner that's what these words mean I get into more detail in my video series which I again I linked down below this this couldn't be more clear the Bible could not be more clear there's Old Testament passages there's New Testament passages there's multiple passages and they're all universally saying this activity is a sinful thing and if you care if you believe the Bible is God's Word your question is answered your question is answered it's just now you have to deal with the confusion and the consequences of having to say yes to that very scary question and I say let's fight through the confusion let's try to break the stereotype let's try to tell people how much we love them even if we don't approve of their behaviors how much we love them and want them to know Christ and how God has a better way for their life than the life that they're living and how when they think they found their identity what they found was a distortion of their true identity as God made them and Christ wants to rescue them from those things and they may hate you or mock you or criticize you or persecute you for it and that's okay because that's what it means to take up your cross and follow Jesus this is this is real Christianity here this isn't just Christianity for the screen Christianity for mass media Christianity for getting my my message out to the masses of God's perfect love it's the gospel right it's it's the true message of the gospel of Christ there are stumbling blocks to coming to Christ and we can't ignore those we have to acknowledge them and let them stand now at this point I think somebody is gonna say why didn't Jesus say something about homosexuality and I've heard pastors pastors right who've said and I've heard them say this look if Jesus didn't think it was important to talk about homosexuality then I don't think I need to talk about it either and I would say that is wrong for several reasons so think this through with me what did Jesus say first off Jesus didn't talk directly about homosexuality because his ministry was to the Jews think about this right Jesus's ministry was focused on reaching the Jewish people that was what he did that was his teaching all of his teaching was for Jewish audiences the Jews had no confusion on this issue they weren't thinking that homosexuality was was a permissible behavior they were all convinced it was wrong Jesus didn't talk about it because it wasn't an issue amongst the Jews that's why Jesus doesn't mention it but yet Paul Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles scripture says he goes out and he's reaching out to Gentiles and he writes his letter to the Romans and the Romans sure were confused on this issue so in Romans and Corinth were they sure were confused on this issue he makes it very clear to them that this is wrong behavior but he didn't have to do that with the Jews Jesus because they were already on the right page what Jesus did say we can read about in Matthew 19 Matthew 19 verse 4 where Jesus talks about marriage Jesus says this is very revealing of Jesus position on on marriage on sexuality it says he answered have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female that this male-female differences in essential part of our our creation and said therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife that's a masculine term a feminine term it's just assumed that this is a man and a woman one one-on-one in a marriage and the two shall become one flesh there's this mystical union this connection and marry people we you know this right so that they are no longer two but one flesh what therefore God has joined together let not man separate that this is marriage designed by God male and female he affirms this he affirms this now if Jesus answers questions about marriage by appealing to God's original created order in Genesis how do you think he would have viewed homosexuality if Jesus has the world view the Jewish world view that his contemporaries had that certainly he gave them through the scriptures of the Old Testament what do you think I mean the one who inspired the scriptures what do you think his view is gonna be on this topic to try to say Jesus stayed silent and therefore I should stay silent is to ignore what Jesus actually said and the context within which he said it when Jesus went to the Jews he highlighted issues they were confused about he talks about how they were caught up in all kinds of weird religious stuff how they added the commands of man to to the commands of God and he rebukes them for that he talks about issues with the temple he gets into sensitive topics that were embarrassing and challenging to the people stumbling blocks to the Jewish people so he targets the issues they're confused on he targets the things that are keeping them from God the sins that are keeping people from God Jesus goes I'm gonna deal with that then Paul the Apostle he goes into the Roman world and he targets the issues that are keeping them from God right when he's in Athens he targets idolatry it's gonna be a total like haywire problem when he talks about idolatry in in the middle of all the idols but he does it because that's what's keeping them from God when he talks to the Romans he talks to them about the sin issue of homosexuality because that's keeping them from God when he talks about adultery and drunkenness and greed and all of the things that are keeping them from God as a Christian when I'm inviting people to Christ I also have to talk about the things that are keeping them from God that's just part of the gospel message you guys they're not gonna like it there may be misses misunderstand to store it whatever it's not on me what's on me is to echo what God has said and I do think that this is something of a watershed issue for Christians this is where I'm concerned with Lauren or anyone else in the audience who once you start waffling on the topic of homosexuality it starts to get a little bit predetermined that you're moving yourself into a new version of Christianity that is being shaped in order to be compatible with the world I need it to be I need my version of Christianity to be more palatable to the world I won't ditch Jesus in name but I might ditch some of the things he stands for and some of the things that he would say I may disagree and I may go down a different road and I may even emphasize Jesus I might say hey man I'm just about Jesus I'm just about Jesus but yet obviously if Jesus was asked the question is homosexuality is sin we know what he would answer if he was just as answer in one word the word would be yes the word would be yes it's it's not a confusing topic honestly we make it confusing because we're trying to find a way around dealing with the consequences in the confusion that come up when this issue pops up so that's what I had to say I'm gonna I'm gonna go to your guys questions right now and again I'm hoping to prioritize the the hard questions the the stuff from you guys where you want to challenge me I'm not offended by that I take it as an opportunity to explain myself better hopefully that's my goal so um I know I'm hitting the questions a little bit earlier probably in the stream than I typically do but let's age I'll send those over to me as soon as he's ready I'm sure he's compiled them oh they're here they have arrived oh by the way well while I'm doing that I want to show you guys my new my new little watch this and subscribe isn't that cool yes thank you very much hey one of my viewers actually sent that to me made it for me didn't even tell me but I just gave it to me as a gift so that was pretty cool I'm gonna show it again cuz I'm a dork like that uh-huh okay all right so Nathan watt says Mike what would you answer if asked the same question do you think she knows and is just scared I don't want to speculate on what Lauren knows because I just don't have enough information to know her heart this it could be a calculated decision where she's going hey this is just a PR thing I'm gonna answer this way for the sake of my career in which case I think that's I think that's a shameful thing to do I think it'd be better for her to say in the interview I don't want to talk about that in today's interview than to pretend to not know and water down a very important issue in our culture something that's keeping people from God but that doesn't mean that she's doing that she could be doing that but I don't know what if she's honestly confused what if she was exposed in Matthew vines and his utter abuse of Greek and history and she goes I don't know anymore I really am confused and so she's just honest she's being totally honest she's like somebody you want to tell me tell me but I'm like thoroughly confused so I don't know um if I was asked I would say is homosexuality let me put the question up again because the way it's worded is really it's meant to trip you up right do you feel that homosexuality is a sin I think I might answer like this regardless of how I feel it's not up to me whether things are sinful or not the truth is that God has revealed that sinful behaviors include sexual acts outside of marriage outside of a man-woman marriage including homosexual behaviour now that's not gonna make people happy and I may follow up with trying to explain about the love of Christ and things like that but it's not gonna water down the fact that they're gonna get mad at me because I'm gonna stand on biblical truth on truth on this issue Lana Leigh says how would you deal with the homosexual wedding invitation from a friend who knows you're a Christian boy I've actually wrestled with this question myself I think it totally depends on your circumstance to be honest let me give you a couple examples let's say that it's your son and your son is getting married to a guy it's a homosexual wedding invitation right so it's by the way that's it's not it that's not technically a it's a same-sex marriage and there is a big difference between the two so it's same-sex marriage as a man and a man who get married right or a woman and a woman who get married they're of the same sex that's that's the specific issue that's going on here now let's say your son knows everything about you knows you opposed it knows your and he knows that when you if you go to the wedding you are not approving of it in any way shape or form and you sort of know this is just my way of showing him I love him he knows I disapprove of this and of the of the way they were there locking themselves in and calling something good that God calls evil so maybe you go to those wedding or maybe if you go to the wedding you send the wrong message and you distort the gospel of Christ because you're sending a message where you're approving of the thing I think it really depends on the circumstances and I just pray God would give us all wisdom for the situation we're in yeah well we have a transgender person who's also gay in my family who I haven't seen in years last time I saw him I I purposed to go and give him a really big hug and that sounds weird but they all know I'm a pastor and they all know my positions on things so I didn't need to say anything so I just wanted to be like oh just really overtly loving and kind and gracious and so I just gave him a big giant hug and you know maybe in another context maybe that would've been a bad idea I I thought it was a way to represent Christ so God give us wisdom Judah Matthew says Mike should we as Christians attend a gay wedding okay similar question is it a conscience issue or is there clear biblical teaching that applies at what point as being involved become approving of sin I think to follow up the moment your involvement involves you improving of sin you can't do it like that's easy if if my involvement involves me approving I can't do it but if my involvement perhaps is sending a different message is communicating something totally differently you know may God give us wisdom give us wisdom and that Rebecca Kuehl says hey Mike would you consider it a mental disorder or just a typical sin temptation type thing I mean I don't think it's a mental disorder to have like sexual desires that are outside of God's plan for you because I think that that's like the normal and conditioned I think I think we we all will deal with the struggle of lust in directions that are ungodly that are that are wrong this is normal this is normal I think that the person who does the same-sex attraction is not that different than me or anybody else I I you so I I don't consider it in that category at all I think maybe trans transgenderism is a different issue that that that sense of where you hate your own does your own body or what you you want to be impersonating something you're not and that that to me my heart goes out to you I think there's something else going on there but but with with sexual desires outside of what should be appropriate what is appropriate husband and wife outside of that that's a normal human condition there's more I could say on that but I hope that helps Dean Ainsworth says hi Mike I'd love to hear your thoughts on the current debate between Christians in regards to Paul speaking about temple prostitution and lust versus versus homosexuality wanting committed relationships so there is actually what he's talking about there Paul's talking about a possible interpretation of Romans 1 I said Paul Dean Dean's talking about a possible interpretation of Romans 1 so in the passage in Romans 1 I guess I'll just bring it up for you guys again some people think this is where Matthew vines does this as well they say hey this is actually just talking about temple prostitution it's not condemning loving same-sex relationships and they go a step further and they say a loving committed same-sex relationship wasn't even known in the first century which to me has a couple problems one problem is this like if you can't say people are born gay and then say that there wasn't even possibly that kind of relationship in the first century like these are two conflicting statements right you're born that way yet that didn't exist before like pick one you can't have both but the issue is and I did do a lot of research into actually Rome ancient Rome on this topic and I'll give you a quote from from in T right on the topic of was this were they aware of specifically same-sex loving relationships at the time let me find it here I have it in a document okay I'll give you a couple quotes this is a quote from Louis Crompton he's actually a gay man and he's a pioneer in queer studies and he wrote a book of huge book called homosexuality and civilization and here's a quote from him he says some interpreters seeking to mitigate Paul's harshness have read the passage in Romans 1 as condemning not homosexuals generally but only heterosexual men and women who experimented with homosexuality according to this interpretation Paul's words were not directed at bona fides homosexuals in committed relationships but such a reading however well-intentioned seems strained and unhistorical nowhere does Paul or any other Jewish writer of this period imply the least acceptance of same-sex relations under any circumstances the idea that homosexuals might be redeemed by mutual devotion would have been wholly foreign to Paul or any Jew of early Christianity so that's a similar issue it doesn't bring up specifically temple prostitution for that I would say read the passage and look at it there's nothing about temples the word idolatry is brought up earlier they worshipped idols and because of this God gave them over to a debased mind right dishonorable passions but that's not to say that these things were all taking place in the temple as in you can do it just don't do it in idols temple that's not that's not the context of the passage the other Court I had for you was from NT right in T right he says as a classicist I have to say that when I read Plato's symposium or when I read the accounts from early Roman the early Roman Empire of the practice of homosexuality then it seems to me they knew just as much about it as we do in particular a point which is often missed they know a great deal about what people today would regard as a longer term reasonably stable relations between two people of the same gender this is not a modern invention it is already here in Plato already there in Plato the idea that in Paul's day it was always a matter of exploitation of younger men by older men or whatever of course there was plenty of that then as there is today but it was by no means the only thing they knew about the whole range of options there and that is from John L Allen juniors interview with the anglican bishop in t right anyway I've got other quotes I could share with you but what happens is you hear these quotes and they sound good right these ideas and they sound good at first oh it was just about temple prostitution the problem is that that ignores first Corinthians that really ignores the context of the actual context of Romans it ignores the other scriptures and I think it's first Timothy it's just blanket condemnation right just blanket condemnation of this behavior so I hope that answers that question from Martin grad well he says Mike do you think the Pope got it right when he said who am I to judge the irony of such a statement so the Pope was asked what was the question they asked him either either asked him is homosexuality a sin or do they ask him Kenna homosexual be saved go to heaven like which was the question I don't remember how the question was worded but his statement was who am I to judge I think that was the moment when I realized this was early on in his papacy in Francis in his papacy and I realized this guy does not he's not a Catholic like he's not Catholic in his theology Who am I to judge is a very strange thing for the Pope to say I would I would agree the Pope has no legitimate biblical place in the church there is no Pope so he's not any one to judge but when I say who am I to judge shouldn't I then say who is to judge which is God God is the judge and he has given us clear teaching on this topic in our culture that feels like embracing homosexual behavior is Noble and good is wonderful this this culture is is heading for pain and heading for suffering and broken relationships with God and each other and and I just believe God on those topics and it's my love for them that says God has already declared Who am I to disagree with God wouldn't that make him either judge to tell God says it's wrong and I go well maybe it's not wrong am I not now the judge so yeah question from Pine Creek since homosexual behavior is observed in the animal kingdom does Mike think homosexuality has a genetic component I did some research into whether there's a genetic component back when I did my series I think it's the third one in the series and from all I could find online in looking at actual studies they've done was that if there is a genetic factor in homosexuality it seems to be very minimal I don't know if there's if there's a genetic factor or not but at from a Christian worldview even if a person was was born gay so to speak if that's like they're locked in to same-sex sexual desires from the moment of their birth their genes their DNA says it and they have no control over those desires happening then I would say well it's still the same call we're called to take up our cross and follow Jesus I'm called to deny myself and follow Christ it's not like God I just but what if I want the sin really bad what if I was born wanting that sin it doesn't make it okay now that seems really irrational so I think also homosexual behavior happening in the animal kingdom I don't look at the animal kingdom as the as normative for you know Christian behavior or people's behavior I don't know if you were implying that or not Doug I I probably not but that's what some might have gotten from that yeah so I don't think it has genetic component because of the studies that I've read and it and I think the relationship of the animal kingdom like sometimes they do cannibalism sometimes they kill their mothers some you know I just don't think that what they do is normative for anybody Ryan Tanner has a question he says I actually just submitted an application to an extremely Pro gay pro-trans company it is just an IT position so I don't feel convicted about the work but what would be your advice what would your advice on this be alright I would just say you need to have a clear conscience before God I don't know the specific role you'll have there are there Pro are you are you by working for them promoting something ungodly or or can you perhaps make a difference and do it as a missionary I don't know God give you wisdom I think that someone would have to listen to you sit down and listen to you for half an hour tell your whole story about that company and what they do and maybe they could give you some counsel so Ryan you can give me a call I know Ryan he used to go to my students so let's talk in more detail maybe I can give you some counsel aimée class and says hey Mike thanks for your discussion of these things how do you see this issue in general as a sort of canary for the larger attack on what on what truth is how do we shine the light there I think the phrase canary refers to like they would bring a canary into the mines and if the canary died then it meant get out of the mine there's like a leak or there's some problem with the oxygen so to speak well the canary would die first it would be a red flag a signal danger danger it's like a smoke alarm or fire alarm going off I think that this is a watershed issue I fully agree with you there I think that as Christians my thought is stand boldly on the truth defy the stereotype the world wants to paint me as a Christian as though I'm hateful and bigoted uninformed and and and maybe even secretly I'm secretly gay if I was tempted with that I would actually be open about it I would use it as an opportunity to minister to people I'll just tell him yeah I'm tempted that way too you know I wouldn't have a problem with that actually I would I would consider it greater calling to serve in that ministry to be honest but but I want to defy that stereotype and I want to say hey I love love love homosexuals and that's why I have to say that this is wrong and then encouraging people to do dangerous things and wrong things is a bad idea I've been there you've been there right you if you encourage your friends to do bad things some people think that makes you a good friend because you got my back that makes you a terrible friend and yeah so pretty simple stuff for me hard but easy at the same time so Linda Richardson says is this situation homosexual activity denying Christ I mean it's what it is is it sin is it the worst possible sin no no no it's not the worst possible sin I don't think so at all I don't think homosexual is the worst sin nor is it the same as someone ate too much hamburger I don't think gluttony Anoma sexuality you're on the same you know level so to speak so is it denying Christ I mean it's it's a behavior in Rebell into God but the Bible does say one thing in first Corinthians it says that sexual sins all sexual sins are of a particular nature that they're a degree more dangerous than other sins because they involve not only like if I was to curse you I just said something with my mouth right my heart my mouth but when I do something sexually sinful I did with my body there's this mystical union of two people and when you take that and you muddy it with sin it becomes an especially dangerous sin so it is a serious thing another question from Pine Creek does Mike think a deceived Christian who practices homosexuality continually will not receive eternal life I think I know his answer well then why I asked I think that if someone is I would have to put it this way I don't know obviously everybody's heart in their complexity of their life and all that if a person is living in sin that is they live in the constant continual practice of sin that is in blatant rebellion to God I have no confidence in their salvation that they're even truly a Christian I can't put confidence in that and that's the best answer I can give for that yet I believe in the grace of God and his incredible mercies but at what point do I say no you've gone too far well I don't and I don't know how to declare it yeah God God knows and God will it's just not up to me so Mariano Rogers says for Mike what do you think about guys like Matthew vines who tries to fit homosexuality into the scriptures I think Matthew vines has utterly butchered the scriptures and as I listened to his testimony I actually would listen to him and he says in his own story that he decided that he wouldn't be able to tolerate a christianity that said that homosexuality was wrong to him and this is what happens with a lot of people homosexuality is there a real pillar pillar of truth and they say God you will either accept homosexuality or I will reject you and the idea of rejecting God to them seems really hard right so then they go to the Bible and they go let me see if I can make it fit and so they're reinterpreting and twisting utterly the scriptures like for instance his handling of Romans 1 Matthew he gives multiple contradictory interpretations of Romans 1 different interpretations that all conflict with each other and he presents them like they're all they're all true because he's just grasping at straws to not look at the scripture and what it actually says yeah so I I'm I'm ashamed I am I'm just being honest I I'm ashamed of the kind of stuff I see when I see people try to twist the Bible to affirm homosexual behaviour not because I hate homosexual behaviour but because I love the Word of God and it's wrong for you to twist it in such a blatantly wrong ways there are questions about scripture that I'm like I wonder that's a hard one I don't know the answer to that I don't know how these verses are gonna basically I don't know what they're saying on this one particular topic there are those issues this is not one one of those issues it's pretty clear from Rickey Pickering says Mike you say that two men can be married and lived together as long as they don't have sex it's okay oh I wouldn't say that the marriage is okay I don't think the marriage is okay I'm sorry two men living together two guys that are roommates or whatever that nothing's wrong with that would you apply that same standard to other sexual sins such as adultery so if there's no sex going on between the two people and nothing sexual going on between two people use have two guys that are that have incredibly loving wonderful relationship nothing's wrong with that nothing's wrong with that I mean do you see I don't see anything wrong with that two ladies who are like just best friends and their relationship is so close and so wonderful and so loving there's nothing lesbian about that it's the sexual act that's wrong the marriage side that's obviously it doesn't exist that that marriage is is exist as far as the state's concerned but as far as God is concerned that's not that's not what marriage is that's my understanding of it when it comes to adultery well if I'm a if I'm if I'm a a man and I'm living with a woman and we have passions for well played this way if you have two guys and they're passionate for each other they have sexual desires for each other they shouldn't live together like that's just foolish that's just foolish same thing for a guy in a girl you shouldn't live together you passions for another be foolish as well so anyway I hope that clarifies my position on that from Kate the great how do I reach out to someone who struggles with homosexuality my first tip is this Kate one-on-one you and them alone nobody else in the room sit down take them out to eat tell them how much you care about them how much you love them be honest and be real about it don't just platitudes about I love you no you tell them how you really care about them and then ask them like can I talk to you honestly about these issues I care about you I'm concerned about you and then just be honest tell them the truth so get one on one not in a group don't talk about them to other people just get them one on one and have that conversation that way my encouragement 101 conversations are so different than this one I'm doing right now and they're better because of that Bradley Wilcox says AJ can you let Mike know we love him and thank him for being such a great defender of God in the Bible thanks Thank You Bradley that means a lot to me it is it is a privilege and honor to get to do this I only hope I do it well and honor Christ and on that final day get it I get a well done that's that's what I want okay next question from s McCoy Mike like you I'm not mad at her but should we continue to use her music as worship when presenting it to the flock I would not I would not make a Blake in blanket statement about that I don't I don't even know Lauren Daigle's songs to be honest I looked up one song or attack her most famous song you say I think it's called and I don't think I can answer that question for you I really did I'm sorry I don't think I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question for you God give you wisdom I don't think it's an absolute blanket no don't use her music sometimes we're too quick to cut people off when maybe we should be reaching out to them I think we should reaching out to Lauren letting her know that we Hey look we love you we care about you we appreciate you you want to cross over and do the secular music fine go for it you know god bless you in it but we we hope that you will know the truth of the word of God and be willing to stand upon it and that would be that would be the thing and put above your career put Jesus above the career you know and above and the idea that for instance and this may not be her but some people feel this way the idea that I just have to build my base I have to build my following and then I can be more open and outspoken about what I believe that is a pipe dream that is a pipe dream I would encourage everyone in the world to forget about that so Mariano Rodgers says does the does the proliferation of pornography in our culture help to promote our acceptance of homosexuality and Oakland our culture is celebrating it well yeah I think it helps but I think that the acceptance of homosexuality came first I think it came or maybe a long side maybe it came sort of at the similar time but no I think yeah homosexuality came first the acceptance of it and that had to do with a lot of other issues um but but I do think that the the pornography the effect it's having on our culture and on people's minds is that it is continuing it's it's increasing the rate at which your mind can get corrupted by sexual sin the rate and the depths of corruption as things get worse and worse and worse and you get more and more corrupted and you start looking for a more and more twisted and wrong things that it's it's sin doesn't leave us the same when I commit sin it changes me and because I have such terrible sins at my fingertips it can change me very fast and very bad and people who think it's just a joke and it's just entertainment and stuff like that that is such folly that is such folly and the consequences well they take years to show but they will show in our culture and in people's lives Isabella Broadbent says hi Mike if a gay person began to attend a church at what point and in what fashion should they be confronted about their lifestyle should they be confronted at all or left to God I don't know that there's a pat answer for it I'll say this we shouldn't be afraid to confront people or talk to them about their lifestyles we shouldn't be intimidated we should be looking out for wisdom so I don't want to respond out of fear but I want to have wisdom and be thoughtful about how I approach somebody but I think it's very situation specific I don't walk up to someone and be like oh you know you're sending off signals that maybe you're gay like are you gay can we talk about that I mean like I just like if a new couple came to the church I don't generally first question ask them are you guys married are you sleeping together are you living together like I just don't do that first time I'm meeting somebody and maybe I'm too timid in some ways but I would you know I would probably wait at least sometime at least allow us to introduce but I will say this delaying sharing the gospel is probably a mistake now you may or may not target that issue God give you wisdom but the gospel is the gospel man whether you whether it's homosexual sin or other sin you have sin issues Jesus is the forgiveness for your sin he died to pay the price for your sin to bring you to God to show you the forgiveness and grace of God but you have to repent of your sin and sometimes there's the preaching of the gospel where I don't have to identify your sin in order to preach repentance whereas other times perhaps I do may God give us wisdom to know the difference so so that's been good I hope that this has been helpful for you guys I struggled a bit with how to present this content I'm not looking to take what's going on with this whole Lauren Daigle thing and be like I'm gonna I'm gonna jump on her and attack her or defend her and attack the people that attack her it's not so much about her I think her event her interview and what she's going through exposes what a lot of people are struggling with and the bottom line is it's not just Jesus in His goodness and his love that's unpopular it's Jesus in His Holiness Jesus in His Holiness and when he comes into a community and he says yeah I'll sit and eat with the sinners but to call them to repentance not to just hang out with them you know that Jesus calls us to repentance and he calls sin sin and the scripture is very clear on these issues I've got to use my opportunities to draw people to Christ and not not be ashamed or afraid and hopefully not confused about what the scripture clear teaches on these topics so thank you guys for joining with me today this has been the Tuesday livestream I do every Tuesday at 5 p.m. trying to help you to think biblically about everything I appreciate your guys questions I appreciate your your thoughts and I'll be watching the comments below you know as much as I'm able to to see what you guys what you guys might have to share if nothing else maybe you're not a believer if nothing else I hope you walk away from this understanding where Christians are coming from and hopefully maybe you'll stop vilifying me that would be nice all right god bless you

Channel: Mike Winger

Views: 353,201

Rating: 4.7875423 out of 5

Keywords: Lauren Daigle homosexuality, Lauren Daigle is homosexuality a sin, is homosexuality a sin, Mike Winger, Theology and Apologetics live stream, Tuesday Livestream, Lauren Daigle and the homosexuality question

Id: Mpjg_JeAgw0

Length: 65min 2sec (3902 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 04 2018