KILLER GIRLFRIEND MURDER TRIAL | Ezra McCandless Testimony Pt. 1

good morning would you state your name and spell it for the record please my name is Ezra McCandless e/m easy RA mcc a nd L e SS okay Ezra I'm gonna ask you to speak really clearly into the microphone because you're soft-spoken yes so everybody can hear you all right all right I guess the first question I'm gonna ask you is why Azra McCandless why that name why Azra McCandless well I have gone through a lot of changes in my life regarding identity and what really fits me and I tried on a few names but I found ultimately that as well as fit perfectly for who I am what was your birth name my birth name was Monica Jay and did your name eventually become the last name Carlin yes so why did you decide specifically I'm going to ask you the specifics of both names and what they mean to you let's talk about the last name first why you changed your last name I changed my last name not to change my last name because of family sake but to I changed it because of the name McCandless is from an individual named Christopher McCandless from into the wild he's known for and his love for nature his philosophies for life they were very in tune and aligned with who I am so I honored him by taking his last name and what about and into the wild just and everybody might not know what it is just in a sentence tell us it's a novel it's a book he wrote okay it was a book written about him yes about him okay and what about the name Ezra how did you choose that name I was on a family vacation and it was just absolutely wonderful and I spotted the name Ezra and I noticed how it's it's more neutral it's it means not necessarily masculine and it's not necessarily completely feminine and I found that just it felt right to me at a certain point in your life did you feel that being identified as female did not fit you yes okay why don't you explain how you view your gender in high school I found that I felt more comfortable being masculine it was it was how identified at the time was my alignment was very masculine what about now now I'm I'm fluid so I I lean now more towards my femininity as a woman okay and has this fluidity been going on for a period of time yes for a few years now okay I'm gonna ask you what might seem like a silly question but just some people knows have you been doodling in court yes can you explain why well I've been doodling in court because there's there's times when this experience is very traumatic and it helps Center me so that I can breathe through it and I can focus on something at the time so that I can breathe are you an artist yes can you just tell the jury a little bit about how you developed your interest in art I developed my interest in art when I was as young as five years old I've always had an interest in art and I've been doing it since then and I continued to have a passion for it throughout high school and even in secondary school and I decided to take art and work for a professor of the arts and hang for a gallery all right um and the other thing I want to ask you is what you your height and weight are so what's your height first of all I'm five two and how much do you weigh I probably I'm sorry i roughly weigh 100 and between I fit 115 and 120 pounds back in March yes of 2018 approximately what was your weight or approximately my way it was 115 so about the same yes were there times before then where you were heavier yes I'm gonna ask you about meeting Alex all right yes why don't you tell us how you met Alex Woodworth I met Alex Woodworth one night when I noticed him he was writing alone inside a bar called the joint he he just seemed very focused and I thought it was interesting that he was alone amongst all these people so focused on his writing IDI when you saw him alone focused on your write his writing did you have any conversation with him yes how did that occur I was curious as to how he could focus alone alone on this topic I approached him and I said what are you writing about just tell me about it when you met him yes he was writing I'm I'm going to show you what has been marked as Exhibit number six 96 97 97 I'm sorry can't see anything without my glasses and ask you to identify what this is this is a table of contents of Alex's writings you see this before yes sorry and just to understand what writings they are you were in court when the original copies of his journal were shown yes is this an accurate copy of them yes alright and just showing you can you name the names of the journals yes do you want me to read yes you can't you can and it's just so the jury is clear does this book contain both the original copies of the original handwriting and then typed copies to make it easier to read yes alright okay so what are the names of the journals personal notes research ideas and the quest to understand okay yes extras Craver okay and the third I met a man walking through a briar patch he was looking for the rose promised by the thorns driver can we just afford to Sokka yes okay first sidebar here Chantel a bear what do you think she seems composed she is I mean they're taking a very personal approach right now they're trying to let the jury get to know her asking her questions about how she chose her name and giving her a chance to explain her her search for her identity I think it's a way to make her connect with the jury right now yeah you need the backstory on a lot of this with her because it is a complicated person that we're looking at right here in terms of her intellect she seems sharp she seems like she's answering the questions so far so good I guess for from the defense standpoint right and she's it doesn't seem completely rehearsed she's taking her time with some of the innocence which i think is import you don't want it to come off and it's okay you've given this answer 50 times already to your attorneys but she's thinking through it and again giving a very humanistic approach right now yeah and that what they're trying to get in are these journals of listen temptation will be received [Music] when you met mr. Woodworth yes I'm going to show you page six [Music] you're just there yes dude first of all on that day did Alex Woodward show you his journal yes and looking at page six I'm just gonna ask you to take a moment to look there's two pages to page six a typed version and a handwritten version yes are those the same the type version in the handwritten version yes they are did he share with you what he had written on that day yes he did share with me did you also read it at a later date yes all right I'm gonna put this on the [Applause] [Music] okay first off the show alright and just to clarify the record this is a journal entry from August 8th 2017 right okay so just to show what the handwritten version looks like is this the handwritten version yes alright now so we can read it I'm going to show you the typed version huh okay so in this typed version after it starts with a quotation right yes and that's from a book yes do you know what the author of that book is no I cannot remember okay that's fine can you read the next sentence to the jury I am oddly preoccupy preoccupied with the concept of cannibalism not quite with the actual Kenyan cannibalism practice but rather that in dwelling metaphors our understanding actually works with all right the essay what does the essay go on to talk about without having to read every line cannibalism is mentioned in this essay a few times it goes on to deal with the concepts of metaphorical cannibalism and the concept of cannibalism itself as what cannibalism renders you as and the anxieties and the fears and being a meal in a sense is it fair to say or is your interpretation of the essay that it is philosophical in nature yes as opposed to literal in nature yes I'll come back to his writings of cannibalism but I'm going to ask you a little more about that conversation yes aside from looking at his journal about cannibalism what discussions did you and Alex Woodworth have at that time well I was he caught me right away because I thought it was quite a peculiar subjects cannibalism and I was interested in what he meant what I understood he was speaking of it philosophically and I also wanted his ideas and his concepts of literally cannibalism so we talked back and forth about a few artists that have partaken in cannibalism that he mentioned we spoke about his the anxieties of and what it means for someone to consume another what did he save that at that time on August 8th or roughly August 8th of 2017 what did he tell you about what he meant by consuming another fiction hearsay your honor overruled I think we can we have had a future our ruling on this and it doesn't go to the truth of the matter it only goes to what miss McCandless heard or understood or what was in her mind so you may we'll see as long as we're on that understanding then that's fine I would withdraw the objection can you ask the question again please sure actually I'll have the court were to read it back so it's exactly the same okay [Applause] okay so what did he say at that time on August 8th for roughly August 8th the 2017 what did he tell you about what did he tell you about what you meant by consuming others thank you at that time when we were deep in this discussion he was we talked about he mostly talked about the philosophical sense and he also mentioned the fact that often individuals partook in cannibalism because it was in essence a consumption of one's power to taken in another's flesh all right besides cannibalism did you talk about other things with him that evening yes all right at some point was your conversation interrupted by another person it was who came over to interrupt your conversation my boyfriend at the time Jason pulled me aside and he kind of interrupted our conversation what impressions are feelings that you have after Jason interrupted your conversation about him interrupting yes about him interrupting well I was I felt that that my conversation was cut short that I had plenty more to talk about did you were you able to then continue your conversation with Alex Woodworth yes why don't you just summarize that for us what else you talked about well we went out for a smoke and we started talking about our love for spiders because we both noticed a spider in the window sill or the a spiderweb we noticed it at the same time okay so that first time that you talked to Alex how long about if you can remember approximately how long do you think your conversation was with him on that particular day in whole I think our conversation was about an hour did you continue your friendship after that yes and did you eventually become more than just friends yes right we're gonna return to that but right now I'm gonna get into a different topic with you all right I'm going to ask you about Jason mangle all right tell us briefly how you met Jason I met Jason outside of a coffee shop one night after a music festival what's the name of that coffee shop raiseed Elaine's all right and just tell us a little bit about meeting him he let out a big sigh and I was curious why he was doing that it seemed quite frustrated so I said well what's the matter and we just we instantly started talking and we talked almost all night after that all-night conversation what happened with you and Jason well after we exchanged information we had begun texting and back and forth and we started seeing each other after at that time where were you living I was living with my mother in Stanley Wisconsin the texting went on and did it texting lead to dating yes you sound kind of happy about that or it's not happy intense I would say the word we fell in love quite fast because we had just so much in common and how in the beginning of that relationship how would you characterize how Jason treated you he treated me very well what was the age difference or what is the age difference between you and Jason mangle it's about 13 14 years apart do you know how old you were when you met him yes I was about 19 did you know how old he was yes how old was he then if you recall he was about 34 all right so that's how you remember yeah all right so there's about a 15 or so your age difference between the two of you yes did you realize that right away when you met him yes how did you feel about that that age difference specifically the age difference well I wasn't concerned necessarily that we had an age gap I fell it's a bit awkward that he was so much older than me and he was even close to my own parents age did there come a time in your relationship where you got pregnant yes how did you discover that I was very sick and I had been throwing up for weeks and I decided to go buy a pregnancy test and take it when you say buy pregnancy tests do you mean those kinds they sell in the drugstore that give you a line yes all right so where were you when you took the pregnancy test you remember I was at a gas station and did you tell Jason about it yes I did how did he react he he seemed anxious and he wanted to go to get it he wanted to go get the test confirmed at the doctors and he was it was hard to really read what he was thinking at the time did you go to the doctor yes I did after and what was the result from the doctor's office I was in fact pregnant ultimately what did you decide to do about that pregnancy I ultimately decided to terminate the pregnancy early on why I was I wasn't sure what to do at that time I was scared I was so young I was confused at to really what to do so I decided I was it felt rushed I decided to terminate the pregnancy and would it be fair to say that even then you had very conflicted feelings yes action waiting sustained hi how determining the pregnancy make you feel I felt very empty after I fell it's very it hurt emotionally and physically and it made me feel alone and very empty after terminating the pregnancy did you tell Jason you did not want him in the room I did yes why I felt overwhelmingly ashamed and I just felt like I didn't want to have him witness me and like that I didn't want him to this abortion and it's aftermath you was there a change at all to your relationship yes why don't you tell us about that after the abortion things between me and my partner and Jason it caused a lot of distance between us he began sleeping on the couch and he rejected physical intimacy even holding my hand at times just so we set the date do you recall the date that you terminated your pregnancy yes when was it the only date that I could schedule was October 6th is that a significant day to you in another way yes why it's my birthday so you said he started sleeping on the couch yes lacked physical intimacy wouldn't even hold your hand were there other things going on in your relationship that made you feel uneasy or unhappy yes why don't you tell us about those Jason and I started feeling frustrated and I felt very micromanaged at the time he he want he was controlling me in many ways and micromanaging me and we we had just we had started to grow apart as a couple were there anything that he did that made you feel physically uncomfortable yes he he never hit me but he would be very erratic with his gestures and sometimes he would throw things or break things and it just that made me uneasy did he make accusations of you at all yes once you give us an example an example of an accusation is that I was clumsy and that I would lose his things all of the time and there was a time where he got very heated over a sharpie marker even and caused a argument between us What did he say about the sharpie marker that I misplaced it on purpose and I just I'm so stupid for losing things all the time I shouldn't touch his things that that's about what it was about you were in court when Jenna van de Zandt testify yes and she identified herself as well first of all did Jason have a roommate back at that time yes he did what was the roommates name his name was Alexander Alexander Zink and what was Jenna Van Zant's relationship to Alexander Zink they were boyfriend and girlfriend was she somebody that at that time you became close to yes you heard her testify about Jason criticizing your makeup or what was that about well he would at times criticize my makeup he would say I looked like a clown or he would criticize my weight even though at that time I was very small from being sick and he just anything he could really pick at he would you mentioned that Jason and your adoptive father Joshi and Carlin are about the same age yes and did Jason have a relationship well first did Jason in some ways remind you of your father oh yes he definitely reminded me of my father okay Ken it currently how's your relationship with your father I love him and we're fine okay but growing up how was your relationship with your father it was very turbulent I was often afraid of him and intimidated and very put down well first of all let me ask about both your parents your mother and your father when you grew up yes at a certain point did your mother and Joe Shane get a divorce yes tell drew that I was in middle school so 11 12 before the divorce what word would you say most describe that household it was like living with tuna two tornadoes in one room all right focusing on that yes the tornado that was Joe Shane when you say tornadoes what do you mean by that what I mean by that is they're both very strong opinionated people and they just put often butt heads and my mom had she disagreed about ways he would discipline me and that would cause arguments was there are a lot of time when your mom was not at home during that period of your life yes she was working and when you were with Joe Shane and your mother wasn't around yes tell us about some of the things he would do some of the things he would do when I was younger is he often he was he was very loud he would always yell about something or he would put me down he often called me stupid and he just he would say I wouldn't amount to much and that I was slow and he just he was very emotionally abusive to me um how did you respond to that I responded by just being quiet and I would cry and I would just often go off and be alone when you would cry how would he handle that he doesn't approve of crying he would tell me that he would give me something to cry about was part of your response of dealing with him did you sometimes feel like you were like spaced out or lost a sense of where you were yes why don't you tell us about that there is often times to tone out the yelling and the name-calling that I felt very distant from myself I would essentially just close off everything around me and I didn't want to cry in front of him so I would in that I would prevent myself from crying were there times where you found yourself in that state without even realizing you were going there yes there's times I would zone out and I wouldn't even realize I was doing it at the time all right and getting back to Jason yes did he meet your parents yes and Jason and your father what kind of relationship did they have very buddy-buddy they are very close with each other okay so coming back to the issue leaving aside your family yes coming back to the issue of you and Jason and you're in this period where things aren't going well yes what is happening at this point in your friendship with Alex Woodworth and and I'm directing you specifically to October yes 2017 okay after the abortion Alex and I we began he would notice me at the coffee shop and I would notice him more we started going on long walks with each other after he would close when you say he would close what do you mean keep closing up the restaurant coffee shop racy delaine's do you mean he was closing up because he was the last patron there or was he working there working on these walks why don't you tell us what you and Alex talked about Alex and I we talked about life itself I would talk about nature and how I viewed things and then Alex would talk about how he would view things and his philosophies and his rambling says he would say and often I was kind of the yin to his yang because a lot of his philosophies countered mine because mine are very in the sunlight and the sunshine and his are very much so a rainy day did you tell Alex about your abortion yes I did I on one of our walks I shared with him what I was going through at that time and he allowed me to open up about it and how I really truly felt and all of the pain that came with it as you got close to Alex yes did you learn more about his past I I learned some things about his past yes and you're a relationship I'm gonna ask you some questions about his past actually all right what did you learn about Alex we and his feelings as you became close with him feelings towards his past yeah just tell us some of the things he shared with some of the things he shared with me is that he often puts a happy face on when he goes back home for holidays and at times it can deeply depress him and he often felt like an outsider that he had arguments with his father I believe and that he was deeply a religious object your honor I don't see I don't see the relevance number one and number two it's hearsay well again the first of all in the hearsay objection ladies and gentlemen and you're gonna hear testimony about things that Mister Woodworth may have said and things that he may have grown and they're allowed in this case not for the truth of what he wrote or what he said and this is this is a difficult concept I think then you'll get an instruction at the close of the case and how why this evidence is admitted and why it is along and so it's again it's and lawyers understand this it he heard all the time but it's not offered for the truth of the matter asserted and only offered as it goes to the context and in the state of mind miss McCandless may have had and how that what she heard or read affected her and so now the second issue what EGIS can we approach her yeah okay okay Chantel labor what do you think she's she's composed she's community you know she she seems as natural you know like it isn't rehearsed what you take I'm not gonna say that she seems likable but she definitely seems like someone you could relate to she's just telling you what her experiences are this is a young girl she's you know they they made sure to highlight the 15 year age difference but you know the guy she said they just wanna go right they found love very quickly she moves in with him she gets pregnant they go through this you know traumatic experience together and then there's another gentleman Alex who comes along who she's going for long walks with and they're talking about their philosophies in life she described herself as the yin to his yang saying that you know she was hurt philosophies were sunshine his were very rainy day so it's it's showing their connection yeah and and she's showing the jury who she is which is a complicated thing this is a unique young woman and from her perspective do you think she is picking up some empathy in terms of from her eyes what her upbringing was like or do you think jurors are kind of turning on her base like oh you know she's all about her she's a victim victim victim no I think they're starting to say that everyone that she interacted with affected her right and they were all different individuals and they're making some comparisons Jason and her stepfather especially will continue all right I want to ask you some questions about Alex and his feelings all right all right and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna show you [Music] I'm showing you again from exhibit 697 si called words dated November 626 excuse me in 2016 yes so again looking at the tight and the handwritten pages have you had an ability to look at them before and compare them yes and are they is the type version just make it easier to read yes okay now this essay was written before Alex met you but have you read this essay yes I have and have you discussed it with Alex yes it's this the typed version of the essay called words yes all right looking at the second paragraph of that essay can you read the second paragraph are you speaking of the paragraph that starts with yet no this paragraph that starts with do I wish to write on the top so I've all right would you like me to read this yes please do I wish desire to die in a way yes and another known for the first life is misery each day the same exhausting for the second a wager of experiences that outweigh any present pain the former is unexpectable the latter is need of comment there is little I've enjoyed more than the physical intimacy the contact under covers list watching a film for example these have a way of grounding a shattered conscience regardless of any a forea of reflection her presence her breath against me the heaves of her chest cement me pull me back together indeed bliss is her heart beat felt all right no fair to say those words are not written about you this journal is written before yes did he express similar feelings towards you eventually in your relationship definite action relevance yeah I'm an overrule go ahead yes he did all right and does he continue in this essay to talk about depression yes what does he say at the top of this page starting with the word or or in formula my emptiness is what prevents any feel fulfillment or again my misery blocks any happiness from occurring yet again my illness makes a cure unattainable yeah okay go ahead you how sad huh does he talk in this essay about philosophy and how that helps him yes what does he say about that you can just summarize it if you remember it philosophy is kind of a vessel for him a vessel what do you mean a vessel for his what I considered pain okay does did he say that philosophy was like a way out or something that he has escaped into and at the very end in his essay after he talks about escaping into it what does he say he says and so starting with those words and so do you mean pity me no the paragraph before that all right and so my attempt to escape is futile I am trapped by the very trapped I was caught by the longing to be otherwise that alone yet that is what I am alone my loneliness even prevents socialite socialization too many times I've heard you didn't look like you wanted to talk entirely because I longed for that very connection I failed to even be recognized as feeling alone because of how alone I fell pity me I refused to utter such words instead my only hope is to be as alone as I feel so I can thank you [Music] were there other times that Alex Woodworth wrote about being lonely empty and misery to that theme continued in his writings it continued yes okay [Music] let me ask you this first before I get to the themes of loneliness and misery in his writing yes did your relationship eventually change from being friends and confidants who went on walks and discussed philosophy into something else yes why don't you tell us about that Alex and I started slow we we held hands we hugged and we shared a few kisses and then eventually we became partners it was this were you still living with Jason during this time yes when you say you became partners can you just explain what kind of partner you mean sexual partners okay and did he express desires for you to be vulnerable to him absolutely yes [Music] I'm going to show you another essay of his I'm just waiting to get it out of the book yes okay [Music] what is the title of this essay in quotes it says come-as-you-are flaws and all what's the date that this essay was written October 29th 2017 and again is the type version of the same as they have written version yes alright first of all looking at the very top of this essay come as you are yes I just want to ask you without having you read the whole top you notice that he talks about Caputo Abraham and God yes and the Abrahamic story of Isaac and sacrifice is that what that relates to yes it does okay it was Caputo or just tow tell us about Alex and Caputo or that that book was that a book he was fond of he was very fond of that book it was a staple in his reading and his philosophies okay does he also in this the last sentence in this paragraph mentions if I'll just read it for you alongside the obligatory I want to find a poetics of erotics did he connect Caputo philosophy and errata sysm yes I don't think that's leading I just asked if he connected them it's a preliminary question okay I'll give you a little latitude so I'm gonna rule it is lead what what do you mean by that when you say he connected those things what I mean by that is that he wanted to explore them in his concepts of erotics he wanted to explore the stories from Caputo and the novel about Abraham okay and going to later down the page alright as it continues I'm gonna ask you specifically and I'm trying to make this easier for you to read that so you don't have to search thank you okay can you read that paragraph that starts with here I am Here I am come as you are flaws and all I wager myself and invite you to risk yourself that right there do you know what he's writing about in this essay on October 29th yes I do how do you know I know because Cummins you are flaws in all was a discussion we had between each other often it was something he would say to me he would text to me and ask of me all of the time okay and go ahead and keep reading that allign all of this is needed I cannot command you to come unless I risk the same in this phrase I occupy both Abrahamic Here I am and the divine come if either parts fails erotic fails even if it succeeds all right keep going if I do not risk myself I reveal the desire to possess I am seducing not loving if I do not invite you to risk yourself I become the ethical fool the willing sacrifice I am committed but to someone who doesn't love me what's he talking about they're committed but to someone who doesn't love him objection sustained speculation did he discuss with you what that line meant that he's committed but to somebody who doesn't love me yes we had this discussion as we did in many of our discussions about that I was still in a relationship essentially with Jason so he felt that because I was still in that relationship I was not fully committed to just him this essay ends with him saying we hide our flaws and it is a feat to come flaws and all have you actually responded do you know what he's referring to there yes okay can you tell the jury that what he is saying there is that it's hard to bear yourself to someone completely to be vulnerable i I'm sorry I didn't mean there in the wreck you go ahead Marie I was out he asked me to be vulnerable with him to essentially come to him flaws and all and I've often struggled bearing my flaws easily and openly so it was this discussion in this essay we read together was about how I was and trying to bear myself to him and as he was asking because he bared himself to me that I should do the same now let's talk a little bit more about your relationship and its development so this is written in late October yes in that time in October just what's the status of your relationship with him yet is it sexual is it on its way to being sexual what's going on it's at that time we were becoming intimate yes we were very much so falling in love at that time did there come a time where you spent the night at his house yes do you remember roughly when that first time was roughly yes I do remember okay why don't you tell us it was late October could it have been a better hitting of October yes I'm sorry not late October beginning of November if that's what I meant to say yes all right and was Jason out of town when that happened yes he was you've seen Alex's roommates come in and testify yet her roommates yes all right was Dave starting a roommate at that time yes he was had you ever met him you know we kind of avoided each other okay and what about the other roommate match Shriner did he eventually become a roommate - he wasn't he was a roommate at the time yes and did you socialize with him at all off and on we had socialize we met each other at the coffee shop a few times okay so when you stayed over with him tell us how your relationship was developing at that time at that time it was becoming very intimate is how I can describe it we have big we at that time had become sexual partners and we were sharing with each other a lot of ourselves despite the fact that you were close and sharing things yes Alex still writing in a way that reflected and talking to you in a way that reflected misery or depression or unhappiness or yes he was I'm showing you an essay in exhibit 697 called the failure to write dated December 21st 2017 yes are you familiar with that essay yes and is it the same as the hammer it is the type version the same as the handwritten yes now in this essay without reading can you tell us or just I mean not reading the whole thing the paragraph that says this is supposed to help my misery can you can you read that paragraph yes this is supposed to help ease my misery but it only draws it into reflection I want to say so much to you but I cannot bring myself to speak the words if said to you would only hurt more they would hurt you and exaggerate exuberant my own pain is that exacerbate exacerbate but that's okay then the words that he says after that he goes on can you read that I know that I am NOT your priority I am secondary to you I believe that you love me but your love for another is what you place your fate then I am loved but in a way that you can always give up you believe that things can get better with the love you prioritize and that means you believe you will abandon me someday I am in so much pain because you love me and you and still you hope to abandon me to my loneliness again can you see that your desire for your priority is also a desire for my annihilation can I show you this or is my only hope to be that your priority ceases to be so far the development of my own significance can you realize that I am your significant other you know that I benefit from now this essay was written on December 21st 2017 yes okay we're gonna come back in a little bit to something that happened in December of 2000 all right actually I'm going to show you another guy say this is from December 2016 yes what is the title of that essay an obsession with misery December 26 2017 and is this the typed version again is it the same as the handwritten yes [Applause] okay this is short yes okay why don't you read this all right alongside my obsession with erotics I am possessed to write about misery the failing of happy consciousness in all honesty suffering is among my greatest interests okay just go ahead I am in love with the femine ology of illness both mental and physical but also with the sub pathological suffering the plight of a guilty woman who is sexually promiscuous interests me as much as those with cancer depression and dysphoria the anxiety of perfectionism of a short prognosis of lifelong uncurable symptoms is a game as that is an overworked college student with a cumulative final each differs from the others but that there is misery remains constant love has been interwoven into my life but so has object to misery in I recall my first love okay because he is talking did he discuss this essay with you yes and he goes on in the essay to talk about other people and their misery yes he does alright and do you know or did he talk to you about why he was writing about misery and near the end of December he was himself feeling a lot of internal pain and loneliness even well as we had a relationship together and [Music] well [Music] so let me ask you when you first met him we talked about this a little earlier yes and he was writing about cannibalism right yes he was all right do you recall to that theme continued in his discussions with you often yes and did he write about that in some of his other essays yes [Applause] [Music] okay I'm going to just show you my weight of example [Music] this isn't sa going back to August of 2017 what's the name of the sex I dead to me of the date August 6th 2017 is the type version the same as the handwritten yes and looking at Oh get this up to the right place one minute just say I'm not great at using this Omo this si can you just read the first sentence of that paragraph yes because you are dead to me this love fails to truly be fails to be truly erotic now though it may have been instead we are speaking of cannibalism yes did he continue to have these discussions with you about cannibalism beyond writing about them all of the time yes what would he did did his expressions or his talks about cannibalism go beyond the esoteric or the Philosopher's philosophical it from what you heard from him yes why don't you tell us about that it would it went beyond philosophy at points when we would discuss erotics of cannibalism and cannibalism in the sense of individuals in history and through the past and even artists who have taken partaken in cannibalism because of their ultimate to desire to consume that individual to consume that individuals power or to consume that individual so that that person they had loved would never leave them so in other words I'm not quite understanding what you mean the person that they loved would never leave them could you just explain a little bit more what what else told you and what he meant about that we specifically spoke of individuals lovers the partook and cannibalism and he consumed his partner so that in essence by consuming his partner eating him because he was passed away he was never away from him he had absorbed his essence now let me ask you about [Music] and again another I say August times [Music] what is the title of this say that's a violation of a date August 9th 2017 so again is he writing about you in this essay No okay so then it's showing just a brief part of this essay in this essay is he discussing a prior relationship with him yes all right can you read this where it says distract me yes distract me is dehumanized dehumanizing unhuman it is the quest of a mind to flesh it is cannibalism the words haunt me confirming that you had died to me I was lift with a revenant a fat facile Emily excellently effects Emily of a person who spoke of a warm caress or offering a vampire touch now in that essay when he said I was left with a remnant first of all in your discussions was him was lift actually intended to be left I was left with yes discussion can you explain what a revenant or not what it is necessary but what Alex said a revenant was yes we often talked about a revenant when we would speak of a revenant or revenant we would discuss how essentially what a revenant is an individual come back from the dead a Spectre or a ghost of sorts they have come back to do unfinished business or it is called like retribution or it's unfinished business essentially is what a revenant comes back for it was a topic we often talked about because he would tell me he considered himself a revenant [Music] [Music] okay fascinating testimony Ezra McCandless on this stand telling her versions of her life to this jury we're gonna push pause you're not gonna miss a thing and we're gonna take a break we're to come back and pick up a right where we left off welcome back to court TV and our continuing coverage of McCandless vs. Wisconsin Azra McCandless on the stand we pushed pause now we're gonna push play reworked from July 24th 2017 again is the type the same as the handwritten yes [Music] this sa yes I'm gonna ask you to read it from where it says I know now it just the next few sentences I know now that you wanted to change me and be changed by me you asked for my flesh sorry oh thank you you asked for my flesh and offered me yours both but so that we could give and receive back new flesh I am yours become mine I mistook the innocent play your desire for my hunger I saw cannibalism where you asked to be seen erotically okay let's stop there when he says I saw cannibalism when he's you asked to be seen erratically do you know what he's writing about rejection calls for speculation and sustained did you discuss with Alex what he was writing about yes why don't you tell us what that was about when I discussed this with Alex he was speaking of he was taking the other person in he was consuming them wholly were they seen where they wanted to be seen erotically lovingly he was seeing them as something to take in to possess did Alex tell you whether or not that reference was about you yes what did he say he told me that it was in reference of me because of parallels of someone he was with in the past I'm gonna show you again the beginning of the same essay yes let me get it to this can you read this I am warm I am kind I am good when did it when did I become so dull inside I am not warm I am so gloomy I am not kind I am so distant I'm not good I'm everand I've got rent is that aberrant parent okay I have gotten too good at being these things am i seen as a good as a person anymore they aren't asks though all right let me ask you about there where he's saying he's aberrant and it's not a mask can you explain or did you Alex discuss with you what he meant by that he discussed with me about masks often all right can you tell me what he would tell you about masks or not tell me tell all of us yes what he told me about masks is that he often seen others and he often felt himself that he had to put on a mask to present himself a certain way so that when he was out in public or when he was at work he would put on a certain face and often he felt that it was always hard to always have to wear a mask with certain people all right in the same essay I'm gonna go to one more area all right and I'll direct you over to the words my touch can you see that yes I can okay why don't you read that my touch is a request feel nothing but me let me give death a face to you has my body ever taken someone's from there and gave it back different I remember holding her with my coat warming her already to human face did it consume her as she did me or was my futile attempt to possess but kindling I am NOT warm but I can offer myself to your blaze okay let's see the stop there again did Alex discuss with you what he meant yeah and I want to ask specifically about where he says let me give death a face to you do you did he talk about that with you he did talk about that with me and what did he do he wasn't he wasn't talking about death as in looking at the other individual and he's seen death he was in essence speaking of how loving that individual was as death it is it's it's a hard thing to just outright and say okay I want to ask you about the sexual aspects of your relationship with Alex during this time meaning late October November December all right so during this period of time can you tell us some of the and I know it's very intimate but some of the details of your sexuality or the sexuality or sex between you and Alex would work Alex and I when we began our relationship sex was very vanilla I couldn't say it wasn't know what me well in case people haven't heard that expression what vanilla means is that it was your your average sex it was missionary your your what a lot of people would describe as normal sex okay and during this period of time where was there some progression in the pure vanilla into yes some differences early now November December yes there were I encouraged him to explore himself and things he might want and he started we started practicing and doing these new things that he wanted to express himself okay first of all in terms of sexual position was there a preferred sexual position from Alex's point that Alex told you he preferred yes what was that it was called throne as he informed me and were you face to face during sex known rarely okay what position really from behind it's what you can call it he would often express this desire for it and were there objects he would use that impaired your sight at all yes he he preferred to have my glasses off and he enjoyed to fold me was there anything specific about lightness versus darkness yes he he liked it to be either soft light a candle or he preferred it to be absolutely dark he enjoyed kind of the mystery of it all in the dark how did you feel about that I thought it was interesting and exciting and I also felt I am very visually impaired without my glasses so I get a little uncomfortable at times without them so let me ask this did Alex refer to you as a boy yes do you know why he referred you to you as a boy did he tell you why yes can you tell us about that objection relevance go ahead again we would there's a limited purpose yes feelings okay yeah I think this has been out there quite a bit already in front all right all right what were your feelings or what did he tell you about him referring to you as a boy well as our relationship progressed I told him about how identified in the past as almost strictly masculine and he he preferred that I presented myself in a masculine way he often told me how confident I looked and how much he was attracted to me because he could call me a boy his boy and present that way did you present yourself as a male to Alex yes I did what about the word boy specifically how did you feel about his use of the word boy the word boy specifically at first it was gender as you can call it but then the word became more possessive I was his boy it felt objectifying at times and what do you mean by objectifying I felt as if I was an object that I was not as a wreck handless essentially but I was just his boy um Jojo I need a break I'm sorry I would like to take a short break I need to take a short break cliff all right well later general we're gonna take a 10-minute recess and so will excuse me for that all right okay Wow what a morning it has been as we mccandless on the stand and at this point we haven't gotten in any clue and we're close to the actual date where the victim in this case Alex Woodworth died but we're getting a lot on her relationship with him her relationship with her other boyfriend's here with me to talk about it Chantal a bear still with me and Andre Smith joining us as well Andre welcome you're taking oh you've been watching all of this this morning how is she doing in your estimation is she connecting etc she's doing very well her attorney is asking the questions to give fluid answers I think she's connected to the jury very well she's very believable I don't know if we could say likable but her story seems to match up to this point like you said we haven't gotten to the meat of what we're trying to find a ssin or the defense counsel has set a foundation to like her going for you setting her up for what we know will be a tough cross-examination Chantal believable or what what's your take on her so far she does she comes across as very matter-of-fact very this is what happened this is what we discussed these were you know our philosophical conversations and I agree that it's setting the jury up to think okay you know this didn't happen in a vacuum these are all the things that are leading up to it this is what she knows about him what she knows about his thoughts and all of that is going to affect her on the day in question how does it help her or hurt her that she is involved in such a unique relationship two of them actually I'm his first started talking about Mangal and her relationships where he was 15 years older and and was overpowering and was you know wanted to control everything very controlling and now we're hearing about this one where it's diving into an obsession with cannibalism and her showing as a boy sexually this is complicated stuff there's muddying the water help her in the long run to where juries you just don't know what happened in that car how he died well yes or no it's very complicated because a lot of people don't know the instruction or the definitions behind a lot of the the LGBTQ rights so to speak in America and her identified herself at one point as a boy and then obviously now saying that maybe I'll go towards more of the feminine side it could be very confusing for the jury and so far to say icx but I believe that when you look at they got in question out of the victim that we're speaking of and the poem's is right and I think the jury is saying okay how did you identify and how did you act when he was the one in charge and then towards the other one how do you identified and how you act and of course we're on trial for the victim not for the other guy so I think you got to focus on how was she with the victim nor say the other guy yeah but he was part of it too is it's a common would a very complicated scenario that this jury is now getting in even more of an appreciation for with her on the stand we're gonna step aside or have a quick break while we have an opportunity the jury is out just for a few minutes we're gonna take a break we'll be right back you're watching Court TV live still with us

Channel: COURT TV

Views: 1,734,782

Keywords: ezra, ezra mccandless, court tv, alex woodworth, wisconsin, wi v. ezra mccandless, trial, killer girlfriend, killer girlfriend murder trial, murder, crime, true crime, live court

Id: 4pkGvSsHZw8

Length: 78min 18sec (4698 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 30 2019