[ Music ] >> Guy Lamolinara: Good
morning everyone and welcome to the National Book Festival
from the Library of Congress. My name is Guy Lamolinara,
and I work at the Library. I'm here with two
wonderful authors, Ann Patchett and Kate DiCamillo. Ann Patchett's new book
is The Dutch House, which was a Pulitzer
Prize finalist. And Kate's new book
is Stella Endicott and the Anything
is Possible Poem, which is the fifth installment
in her Deckawoo Drive series. Welcome to both of you. And I want to let people
know that if they go to the nationalbookfestival.com
and log in, that you two have recorded
a session together. And I've watched that session,
and you're in for a treat if you go and watch
that, because it's like watching two
standup comedians. It's [inaudible]. You will love it. So please watch their video. So we're going to have
a great conversation with the two of them today. And I'm going to
start out with Kate and ask you about your new book. Can you tell us a little
bit about what it's about? >> Kate DiCamillo: I was
thinking as you were reading. Hi Guy. Hi Ann. >> Guy Lamolinara: Right. >> Ann Patchett: Hi. >> Kate DiCamillo: I was
thinking as you were reading that introduction, Guy, how
dignified I sound, you know, so there's Ann Pulitzer
Prize finalist and then me writing
about Deckawoo Drive. >> Ann Patchett: Yeah, but the
important point, I lost, okay. What he could have said
is Ann Patchett loser of the Pulitzer Prize. How exciting. It's just how you
spin it, right. I lose every single year. It's just this year,
they're pointing it out. >> Kate DiCamillo: That's funny. I haven't heard that
routine before. So, Stella -- >> Ann Patchett:
[Inaudible] by the way. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah,
I'll tell it very quickly. It's about all the
wonderful people who live on Deckawoo Drive. Stella Endicott is one of them. She makes a new friend
at school. She write a poem about a pig. Anything can happen. There, I summed it
up, didn't I, Ann? >> Ann Patchett: Well, you've
left out my favorite part where they get trapped
in the janitor's closet. It's all about fear and kind
of powering through your fear with just a certain amount of
self-confidence and presence. It really is a very
good book for this time. It's a good book for any time. It's my favorite of
the Deckawoo Drives, and I am a Deckawoo
Drive completest. [Inaudible] seems really tough. When the rubber hits
the road, he crumbles. And little Stella
Endicott who doesn't seem as brave really steps
up and takes control and sees him through,
because you never knew. >> Kate DiCamillo:
It would be up to you to see something
profound in this. But I do think that
it's also that thing about how much comfort there is, they are in this very
small space together, and they are trapped. And they take comfort
from each other, right. >> Ann Patchett: And do
you know how hard it is to write a book that's
set entirely in a dark editorial
closet in a middle school. >> Kate DiCamillo: It was
the knowledge I wanted to set for myself. And speaking of taking
comfort from each other, I just want to like
broaden that out and say like how much comfort I
take from your friendship and how much comfort I take
from this community of people who read and this
community of people who get together and
talk about books. So this is just a big
thank you to the world of readers and writers -- >> Ann Patchett: Thank you. >> Kate DiCamillo: and
how we get to be friends across and during this time. >> Guy Lamolinara:
Thank you for that. Thank you so much. Ann, tell us a little bit
about The Dutch House. >> Ann Patchett: A
brother and a sister grow up in a fabulous,
beautiful home. Their stepmother
tosses them out. And even though they go on
to have perfectly nice lives, they just cannot stop chewing
on the hurt of their youth. That's a nice thing about
having a book that's been out for a while. You really are able to
get it down to a science. >> Kate DiCamillo:
Yeah, that was very -- >> Ann Patchett: Hey,
it starts in November. And it's cold outside. [Inaudible]. >> Guy Lamolinara: You set your
book in a Philadelphia suburb. What familiarity do you
have with that area? >> Ann Patchett: My best friend
from college, Erica Shultz who used to be Erica Buchsbaum,
lived in Cheltenham, Wyncote, Jenkintown, that area. Her parents' address
was actually Wyncote. But because I lived in
Nashville, I would go home with her for the weekends,
because we were in school at Sarah Lawrence in New York. And so we would drive
up in the suburbs in Philadelphia or
take the train. And that's how I have the
knowledge of that area. Just a great warm fondness. We'd always go, always go
home for the High Holy Days, you know, as one takes one's
little Catholic girlfriend home from college. It was nice. >> Guy Lamolinara: How is it that you two have
become friends. You don't live anywhere
near each other. >> Kate DiCamillo: We live near
each other psychically speaking, however. >> Ann Patchett: That
was a total setup, yeah. >> Kate DiCamillo: Right. I was going to say, Guy
just handed me a softball. Yeah, the funny thing is
that, you know, of course, I have been a fan of
Ann for a long time. And like, you know, fan girling
[phonetic] kind of thing. And then I went and did an
event at the store in Nashville, and Ann came to my presentation. That was quite lovely
of her above and beyond. And then what happened to Ann, and you never really tell
this part of it though is that you were sick that winter. So I had been there,
and then you were sick. You just, it was
like a month almost. And you were working
on The Dutch House, but you couldn't really
work on anything because, and so you started, wanted
to read something that, and you started to
read my books. >> Ann Patchett: All of them. >> Kate DiCamillo:
And then she wrote me, and I was super excited
and wrote her back. And I was a little bit
intimidated at first. She always gets mad at me for
saying that, but it was true. And then we just, you've
become one of my good friends. >> Ann Patchett: [Inaudible]
where I write in the morning and say hey, I flossed
your teeth. Have you flossed your teeth yet? >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, that's
[inaudible] friendship based on minutia, boring minutia. And I won't say what
happened to you yesterday. Can I? >> Ann Patchett:
Oh sure, go ahead. >> Kate DiCamillo:
She got bit by a pig. So that kind of thing. That's where our
friendship is rock solid. Because I emailed
her this morning, I said how's your pig bite? And you know what, anybody that
I can write that sentence to, friend for life, yeah. >> Guy Lamolinara: That
makes so much sense. >> Ann Patchett: And done it
while I was at the goat farm with my sister's grandchildren. And [inaudible] the pig, I
like, I don't have a phone, but I had an iPad with me, and
so I dug my iPad out of my bag and I was like, Fluffy,
I was bitten by a pig. >> Kate DiCamillo: It's
like a title for -- >> Ann Patchett: It
was a pig named Bruno. That's why, this pig and I
had a very beautiful moment, and it was so warm
and tender between us. But I went to my sister
and asked for a couple of sliced apples that she had
brought for the grandchildren to enjoy at the goat farm. The goats, no interest
in sliced apples. I bring two sliced apples,
one for Bruno and one for Bruno's friend, Claire,
give them each some apple, and then Bruno enraged
by the fact that I did not have a second
piece of apple for him bit me. >> Guy Lamolinara:
Speaking of pigs. Kate, you wrote a lot about
pigs and other animals. Why is that? >> Kate DiCamillo: Why? Why do I write so
much about animals? It's such a hard question
to answer because it is not in any way a conscious choice. And often, I've though,
I should try to write something
without an animal. But, you know, I love animals. That's one thing. And the other is I think so
many of the stories that I read when I was a kid, Paddington
Bear, Stuart Little, The Mouse and the Motorcycle. They feature those
animal protagonists, and so I think that's
part of it. And also, this sounds very
calculating, but when you write about an animal, people let
down their guard more easily. Don't you think that's
true, Ann? >> Ann Patchett: Yeah. >> Kate DiCamillo: That
people are like less, so the reader opens their
heart much more quickly to an animal protagonist
sometimes than they do to a human one. It's a shortcut to
the human heart. >> Ann Patchett: Also, kids
are looking for themselves. You know, kids like books about
kids that are sort of like them. And yet, every kid can
identify with the animal. >> Kate DiCamillo: Right, right. Oh, that's a good point. I should always take
notes when you talk, Ann. >> Ann Patchett: Don't you? I thought you did. >> Kate DiCamillo: Okay Guy, how are you doing
trying to wrangle us? How's it going? >> Guy Lamolinara:
I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Trying to get a word in here. >> Ann Patchett:
That's the story of my life trying
to talk to her. >> Guy Lamolinara:
I'm just kidding. Ann, I have a question here
from one of our listeners, and she's asking how is it that Kate DiCamillo
helped you write the end of The Dutch House. >> Ann Patchett:
That's a great question because she absolutely did. >> Kate DiCamillo: I'm
going to let her tell this. >> Guy Lamolinara: Did you
get any royalties for that? >> Ann Patchett: She does. She extracts her
royalties daily. So, I had written
The Dutch House. When I write a book,
I know how it's going to end before I start
writing it. I wrote the book. I made a huge mistake. I had to throw it out
and start it over. It was a very, very different
book when I rewrote it. So I'm writing it without
knowing the ending the second time. I get all the way to the
end of the second draft, but there needs to
be a denouement. There needs to be just a
little scene at the end, and I don't know what
that's going to be. And at this point in our
friendship, Kate knows, all she knows about the book
are the names of the characters, the name of the book and just
sort of that it's about a house. And she said one morning, you
know, how's the ending going. And I said it's going well. I just don't have that
last beat, that last scene. And about, I don't
know, six minutes later, she wrote me back a paragraph and she said here,
this is how it ends. >> Kate DiCamillo:
I was kidding. >> Ann Patchett: And in fact,
in fact, that is how it ended. And it was not the direction
that I was thinking of going. Now she wrote me a paragraph, and out of that paragraph,
I made 12 pages. But the important thing was where she placed the
two main characters. And I thought, I hadn't
thought about that. And it was perfect. That was a big help. Thanks Fluff. I appreciate that. >> Kate DiCamillo: You know,
it's like, she kept on saying that really helped me, and I
just didn't believe her at tall. And then -- >> Ann Patchett: Did you
read The Dutch House? >> Kate DiCamillo: Who me? >> Ann Patchett: You. Did you, when, I mean when I
finished it, did you read it? >> Kate DiCamillo:
Are you talking to me, or are you talking to Guy? Yes, yes, I read
it in manuscript. >> Ann Patchett:
You talking to me? >> Kate DiCamillo: I
read it in manuscript. >> Ann Patchett: You read it. That's correct. And what did you see
at the end of the book? >> Kate DiCamillo:
Something very similar to what I had, yeah. >> Ann Patchett: Correct. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, yeah. It's so surreal. And in honor of me
getting to do that, I got to be, what was my reward? Not royalties, Guy. Instead, Fluffy. That's what I get
for my efforts. I get named Fluffy. >> Ann Patchett: In The Dutch
House, she'd be Camillo. >> Kate DiCamillo: Right, Fluffy
DiCamillo on The Dutch House. Yeah. >> Ann Patchett: Right. >> Kate DiCamillo: Okay
guy, how are you doing? How are you doing? >> Guy Lamolinara: I'm good. I have a question about your
friendship with each other, and do you ever use any aspect of your friendship
in your writing? >> Kate DiCamillo:
Wow, that's tough. >> Guy Lamolinara: Does it ever
work its way into your writing? >> Ann Patchett:
You know, I plan to. I plan to. I haven't gotten there yet. But something -- >> Kate DiCamillo:
What's that plan? >> Ann Patchett: That's Clotus
[phonetic] and Jelly [phonetic]. >> Kate DiCamillo: Oh. God, I can't believe you
would say their name. Wow. >> Ann Patchett: When the time
comes that I get to Clotus and Jelly, then that
will definitely be us. Yes. >> Kate DiCamillo: Wow. And you know how, I would answer that in a totally different
direction, and I would say that Ann, I mean, she
underpins the work. Because I've gotten to the
point now in this friendship where she's one of
my first readers. And I never would have though
I would have gotten there. I would have thought
that's too terrifying to have a Pulitzer Prize
finalist even like -- >> Ann Patchett: Remember. >> Kate DiCamillo: reading. But she was so central to, I
write, she's one of those people that I write toward now. And so it's just, so
she's there implicitly in the stories that I tell. That's a good question. >> Ann Patchett: Yeah, and let
me, and let me answer that too. Because this is really
interesting. So Tuesday, this coming
Tuesday, I have a piece, an essay in The New Yorker
called Three Fathers. And I wrote that -- >> Kate DiCamillo: Fantastic. >> Ann Patchett: But I wrote that because Fluffy's
father died. And when your dad died, and
she was talking about wanting to write about it, and I said,
jumping on the bandwagon, well, you know, I had three fathers. I feel like I'm somewhat
of an expert in this now in the loss of the father. Because my mother was
married three times, and these were three people who were hugely important
in my life. And I said, I've been
meaning to write this essay for three years, since
my last stepfather died. And I've been thinking about
it and thinking about it, and I just never started it. So I said you write
about your father. I'll write about my fathers. And I don't, I absolutely
would not have written that essay were it not for you. So thank you. >> Kate DiCamillo: Let's get
back to the fact that my essay about my father, which I
did, is not going to be in The New Yorker this week. However, Anne's did. And it is truly an astonishment. It's a gift. It's a wonder. It's funny. And it's hopeful, and
it's what everybody needs to read right now. And when is it actually
on the newsstand? Is it -- >> Ann Patchett:
You can go Tuesday. It's the October 5th issue,
but I think that comes on the stands this Tuesday. What's so interesting
about the essay you wrote about your father is that it
then later morphed into speech. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah. >> Ann Patchett: And
the essay that you wrote about your father was fine
and then morphed into a speech that was just one of the
best things you've ever done. So, it's been very interesting
how these pieces are really, you know, things become
really interconnected when you're writing together
and you're having conversations. Like an essay that
I'm writing right now, I feel like everything
I am going to put into that essay I'm saying
to you over the phone. We talk on the phone
maybe once a week and email about 15 times a day. And I'm working through it
with you as I'm writing it. >> Kate DiCamillo: It's
fascinating actually that you talk about this. Because it all happens, I
haven't really examined it. Okay Guy, sorry, here we are. >> Guy Lamolinara:
Not a problem. I see quite a few
questions about it. Edward Tulane, a lot of
people wanting to know about whether it's
being made into a film. >> Kate DiCamillo: I do
believe that that will happen. It has, you know,
there's a fabulous script. There's and it has
been optioned. And you know, it's one of
those things that we get close and then, but I do, I
think it will happen. In the meantime, you know,
right before the world changed, Edward was going to
be an opera here in, at the Minneapolis,
the Minnesota Opera. So, hopefully, that will happen
once the world starts back up. And yeah, also, you know,
Edward, it's such a strange, it's one, it's the first
book that Ann read of mine. And it's a book that keeps
on opening doors for me because that's where
Ann started. So in a weird way, Ann
came to me via Edward, and this friendship
came via Edward. But Edward has been
on a Korean soap opera that people have just, so
he's been all over the world. He's in a traveling
puppet show in Russia. And so it's just a,
it's a book and a story that I don't even feel
like it belongs to me. It just keeps on going
out and doing things and bringing the gifts. So a movie would be a gift. >> Ann Patchett: I
didn't know that he was on a Korean soap opera. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah,
there was a character who read the book
on the soap opera, carried it around
and talked about it. And it became the
bestselling book in Korea. People just downloaded
it and read it. It was kind of an amazing thing. Yeah. You're frozen, Ann. Is that just for me? I can't. >> Ann Patchett: I have no idea. I came into this
conversation the hard way, and I'm still [inaudible]. >> Kate DiCamillo: Well,
at least we can hear you. And you've got a pleasant
look on your face. >> Ann Patchett: A minute ago
something popped up on my screen that said we can
no longer hear you. So. >> Kate DiCamillo:
Oh we can hear you. >> Guy Lamolinara:
I can hear you. We can hear you just fine. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah. >> Guy Lamolinara: And you've
written about friendships with other women authors. Have you ever had any close
friendships with male authors? And if so, how do those
relationships differ? >> Ann Patchett:
They don't actually. They don't differ at all. But two of my very, very best
friends are male authors, Patrick Ryan. The Dutch House is
dedicated to Patrick Ryan. He wrote The Dream Life
of Astronauts and Send Me and is really such an
unsung hero of our time. And there are no words,
there are no words for how much I love
Patrick Ryan, who comes to our house usually for several weeks a
year and works here. And we have writer's
camp in our lives and our writing,
very, very connected. I have about ten pounds
of mixed nuts in the back of my car all boxed up and ready
to mail to Patrick right now, because he lives in
Manhattan where I always worry that he doesn't have enough food because he's really being
good about staying in. And then my other
great writer friend who is male is Kevin Wilson who
wrote the terrific book Nothing to See Here that came
out last December. And Kevin, I've known Kevin
since he was 21 years old. He used to be my dog sitter. His youngest son is named
Patchett, which is much, much better than losing
the Pulitzer Prize. I wish when people
introduced me they would say, and Kevin Wilson named
his second son after her. And Kevin, Kevin and I
are so close, but Kevin, I almost feel like
Kevin's my son. He's one of the only people that I have really
maternal feelings towards. So yeah, those are my, those
are my two close, I have other. I mean I could just
name drop all day long and tell you other male
writers that I'm friendly with, but those are the two
that I'm super close to. >> Guy Lamolinara: Have
you two ever thought about writing a book together? >> Ann Patchett: Yes, we have. >> Kate DiCamillo:
We have, yeah. >> Ann Patchett: And
it didn't go anywhere. But you never know. Life is long and
full of surprises. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, I,
yeah and it might happen, but I feel like we, and that was
another thing where it was great when I just, like
I thought like no. Well it doesn't matter. We won't have that here. Let's move on to
another question. But yeah, anything's possible. >> Guy Lamolinara:
People are interested about becoming professional
writers, and Kate, I've heard your story about
how you became published and everything you went through. Could you tell us that story? Oh sure. I mean I can,
how much time do I have? And Guy, you've heard it before
and Ann has heard it before. I'll just try to [inaudible]. As somebody who loved to read,
I went to college and majored in English, because what else
are you going to do, right? And then I had a professor who
said to me in my senior year, you have, quote, a certain
facility with words. You should consider
graduate school, end quote. And I thought, this
person is trying to tell me that I'm the next
Flannery O'Connor and is just doesn't
want, so like, I thought I'm destined
for great things. And I thought why should I
bother going to graduate school? I'll just go off and
be a famous writer. So I got a black turtleneck. And you can see how all
my suffering is borne of myself, right. It's all self-induced. So I got a black turtleneck, and I told everybody
that I was a writer. And that kept me busy
for about ten years, wearing the black turtleneck and telling everybody
that I was a writer. And then right before
I turned 30 I thought, I'm going to have to, I'm going
to have to write something. And so I started to write. I started by doing
two pages a day. I started to send
the stories out. And I collected a ton
of rejection letters. And, Ann, I don't think, I
think I've told you this, Ann, that Louise, Ann is friends with
Louise Erdrich, that Louise came to the book warehouse
where I worked, and I came down to
get my book signed, and everybody shoved me
forward and said Kate writes. Kate's a writer. And Louise was so lovely to me, and she said how long
have you been writing? How long have you been
getting the rejection letters? She said hold on for about six
years and things will open up. So things did open
up in six years. So, yeah. >> Ann Patchett: Louise
is such an oracle. >> Kate DiCamillo: Right,
and I mean I felt it was such a generous thing to do. I felt totally seen,
and it gave me hope. And it also validated
me because, you know, I mean how many people
are shoved in front of her saying I'm a writer. I'm a writer. And she just, she
was so lovely to me. >> Ann Patchett: Can I throw,
can I throw a Louise story in? >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah. >> Ann Patchett: I was
at Iowa, and I was 21, and I was the babysitter
and housekeeper for Jorie Graham and Jim Galvin. And they were having a big party
for Louise, and I was cooking. And I was in the
kitchen scrubbing pots and making canapes. And Louise Erdrich came in, and she had at that point
only published Love Medicine, and she was luminous. She had this long
white dress on. I mean it was really like
God walking into the kitchen. And she stood at the sink and
talked to me for 20 minutes in the middle of that party. And it is truly one of the
warmest memories of my life and certainly of
graduate school. >> Kate DiCamillo: Oh Ann,
that is a beautiful story. You know, this is kind of how our exchanges go all the
time now since you're working on this book of essays. But I like want to say,
write an essay about that. >> Ann Patchett: Yeah. See, and that is how Kate
DiCamillo influences my work. And that's actually really
true that I will say something, and she's like no, no, that's what I'm interested
in right there. Tell that story. And that's a -- >> Kate DiCamillo:
That's beautiful. I can see that whole thing. And you at 21 like Cinderella
with your hands in the sink. >> Ann Patchett: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, and
here comes the fairy godmother. Okay, Guy, how are you doing? >> Guy Lamolinara:
Good, I'm good. I have a question for you, Ann. Have you ever written any
characters that are so different from yourself that you
really had a terrible time writing them? >> Ann Patchett: Boy, I think
that question needs to come in the opposite direction. >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay. >> Ann Patchett: Writing a
character that was so much like myself that I
had a terrible time. I, you know, I really subscribe
to the idea that anybody who is not me is not me. And these people are not me. And it takes a lot of
time and thought to get into somebody else's life. I'm trying to think of the
characters that I have written who have been the very,
very farthest away from me. But I don't know, you know,
it's, they're all made up of you in some ways. The nobody is you,
and they're all you. In almost equal measure. Yeah. >> Guy Lamolinara:
Kate, your friend, Ann, has written about children,
and she writes for adults. Have you ever thought
about writing for adults? >> Kate DiCamillo: I
feel like, you know -- >> Ann Patchett: She
writes for adults. There's one right here. She writes for adults. >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay. I see what you're saying. >> Kate DiCamillo: Yeah,
and it's odd because, and this is a long
thing, like Ann and I could have
a big conversation about this realization that we've had going
back and forth about me. I have written for adults. It's where I started
was writing for adults. And I'll just make it short
though and say that I feel like I am my best self, and the
stories are their best selves when I'm writing for kids. And I have been so
lucky that I have found that adult readers read them,
read the stories for themselves as well as with their kids. So, I'm just going to keep
on writing what I write. >> Ann Patchett: And if
I can say, sometime early on in the pandemic, I wrote a
piece for The New York Times, which was actually really funny. I wrote it for the
bookstore blogpost. I, you know, co-own
this bookstore Parnassus in Nashville, and I'm always
writing for the blogpost. And I wrote a piece
about how great it was to read Kate's books right now because if you didn't
have great concentration and you were distracted by
the fact that the world felt like it was falling apart around
us, that you could sit down and read one of her novels
and have the full experience of a novel in two hours. And how profoundly satisfying
and comforting that was. And when I finished writing
the blogpost, I read the piece and I thought, wait,
this is kind of good. And so I sent it to The New
York Times, and they published, you know, three days later. And I have people stop
me in the grocery store or stop me while I'm walking
my dog, stop me everywhere and say oh thank you so much. Those Kate DiCamillo books, that's exactly what
I needed right now. So, I think that it
really is a matter of just pointing out
an evident truth. And that is a skill that I
have from being a bookseller. You know, that we don't have
to shop only in our sections. That there's a whole
range of things that we might be
interested in sometimes. We just need someone else
to point them out to us. >> Kate DiCamillo: Ann, you
also have that skill not only from being a bookseller
but from being an essayist. And this is like
something like that I'm like always paying attention to how you clarify your own
thinking by writing the essay. And it's just, it's a wondrous
thing to be present to watch all of that happen and
the logical thinking. >> Ann Patchett: Something
just popped up on the side of the screen that said
I read that article and immediately bought
Edward Tulane. See, the power of Ann Patchett. >> Kate DiCamillo: The
power of Ann Patchett. That's the truth. And the power of the power. >> Guy Lamolinara: I'm
so sorry to interrupt, but I hate to say this. We've reached the end
of our conversation. You two can talk afterwards,
but we have to end right here. And I want to thank you
so much for letting me be in on this conversation. This has been one of the most
fun things I've done throughout this entire festival. So thank you so much. >> Ann Patchett: Oh thank you. >> Kate DiCamillo:
Oh, Guy [inaudible]. >> Ann Patchett: Just call me. Just call me, and we'll keep
talking about this stuff. >> Guy Lamolinara: I want
to let our audience know that we've been talking with
Ann Patchett and Kate DiCamillo. Ann Patchett's most recent
book is The Dutch House. And Kate DiCamillo's book most
recent book is Stella Endicott and the Anything
is Possible Poem. Thank you both so
much for being here. And if you want to hear
more from Kate and Ann, they have recorded a special
video for us, and you can see that video if you log on to
nationalbookfestival.com and go to the children's stage. [ Music ]
