[ Music ] >> History and Biography is
sponsored by Wells Fargo. [ Music ] >> Welcome everyone, we're
here with Madeleine Albright, the 64th Secretary of State. And we're here to talk about her
new book, "Madeleine Albright, Hell and Other Destinations." Which is a very interesting
book, I've just finished reading
it and I look forward to having a conversation with
Madeleine Albright about. Madeleine, welcome to
our broadcast today. >> It's great to
be with you, David. I'd enjoy talking
with you any time. >> So I am at the
Jefferson Building of the Library of Congress. Madeleine is in her home
in the Washington area. I should disclose that we've
had a long-standing relationship between Madeleine and I
were young staffers together in the White House
under President Carter and I followed her incredible
career ever sense then with great admiration. So, Madeleine, this
is your Madeleine, this is your seventh book since
your left as Secretary of State. So did you ever managed when you
finished as Secretary of State, the first woman to ever
serve as Secretary of State, that you would write
seven books in addition to the other things we're going
to talk about that you've done since you left the
Secretary of State? >> No, it never occurred to
me that I would write so many. But I did think that it
was important for people who had served in office
to write their memoirs. Because that is the basis of people really
understanding what happened. And everybody writes a
somewhat different version of what they saw. And it's up to researchers to
figure out what really happened. So I had planned always
to write a memoir. >> Well, I see behind you
in your home you have a lot of books, so you're
obviously a big reader. And obviously a writer as well. But the most obligatory thing
that people do when they leave as Secretary of State is write
the memoirs of their time as Secretary of State
and you wrote that book, called "Madame Secretary," how
long did it take you to write that and was it difficult to
bring back all the memories and did you enjoy
writing it and did you say after it was over
"one's enough"? >> Well, I have to tell you. It took quite a while. Because it really was something
that I had to figure out based on the calendar what I had
done and to really look at it. And I-- the thing that happened
is I'll think you'll remember this, in many ways during
the Clinton administration, we really didn't take
an awful lot of notes. And so I had these
scratchy pads of things. And I finally-- when
I saw my schedules, it was like the Rosetta
Stone and I could figure out what it is that I had done. But I did think it was
important to write it. I have to tell you,
without showing off, I had met Gabriel
Garcia Marquez. And he said to me "When
you write your memoirs, don't be angry." And I thought that that
was very, very good advice. It's not the time
to kind of take out whatever problems
you had with somebody. But I do think that
it's important to do it. It did not occur to me that I
would write so many other books. But there always was a
reason to write them. Because I needed to kind of
elaborate on that memoir, the "Madame Secretary." And so then I wrote a book about
my childhood Prague winter, which was very much
also part of a memoir. And then this last
book, to some extent, is my post-public
service memoir. So I have written quite a few. And by the way, to be totally
honest, I obviously had help. Bill Woodward, who worked with
me when I was in the government, and we worked together. And it's important to
get the notes right and to really know what
you're talking about and to recollect
as best you can. >> Well, one of the
books you've written about as well is your pins, I
see you're wearing one today. You're pretty famous
for the pins. What was the Genesis
of wearing pins and why did you write
a book about that? >> Well, let me just say,
I clearly like jewelry. And what happened was when
I got to the United Nations in February 1993, it was
right after the Gulf War. And the cease fire had been
translated into a series of sanctions resolutions. And I was an instructed
ambassador, and my instructions
were to make sure that the sanctions stayed on. So I said something awful about Saddam Hussein
practically every day, he deserved it, he'd
invaded Kuwait. And all of a sudden, a
poem appeared in the papers in Baghdad comparing
me to many things, but among them an
unparalleled serpent. So I started wearing a snake
pin when we talked about Iraq. And the press picked it up, as
you know, ambassadors go out and there's a press huddle
and one of the reporters said "why are you wearing that snake
pin," so I went through the fact that I had been compared
to an unparalleled serpent. And then I thought,
well this is fun. And so I went out and I bought
a lot of costume jewelry to reflect what I
thought we were going to do on any given day. So on good days I wore flowers
and butterflies and balloons. And a bad day, a lot of
carnivorous animals and spiders. And the other ambassadors
would say to me "what are we going to do today?" And I said read my pins. And that's how it started. And the reason that I thought
it was worth writing a book about it and then having
a traveling collection is that I always try to make
foreign policy less foreign. And all the pins that are
in that collection and are in the book have some kind
of a foreign policy story. And I explain it. And so that's the reason. And by the way, the state
department has just opened a new diplomacy museum and I'm giving
the whole collection to them. >> Wow, well that's generous. Let me bring everybody
up to speed who may not have
followed your career. You worked on Capitol
Hill for Senator Muskie. That was your first job as a
professional, you might say, after the House after
your children were raised. >> Yeah. >> And then after
that, you went to work in the White House
where I met you. You were working for
Zbigniew Brzezinski, who had been a professor of
yours when you got your PhD at Columbia after graduating
from Wellesley before that. And then you ultimately started
advising other candidates, but you were not really advising
Bill Clinton that closely, but you ultimately were picked
to be his UN ambassador. Is that correct? And the first four years,
you served as ambassador. Is that right? >> Yes, and it was,
and it's interesting. I had worked in a lot of
presidential campaigns, but not in the Clinton one because I was heading
a 501c3 think-tank. And besides, he had
a lot of advisors. But I had met him first when I
was working for Michael Dukakis. And Bill Clinton was governor of
Arkansas and he came up to brief or prepare Dukakis
for the debate. And then we kind of had dinner
and talked and he had gone to Georgetown and I was teaching
at Georgetown in the 80s. And that was our connection. >> [Inaudible] the UN
ambassador for four years, and that's where
the pins started. And then when the second term
came along, Warren Christopher, who had been Secretary of State in the first four years
announced his retirement. There was some competition
who was going to be the next Secretary
of State. And no woman ahead ever been
picked as Secretary of State. Did you think President Clinton
was going to pick a woman to be Secretary of State? >> No. I really didn't think
it was going to happen. I mean, the thing, there
was this period I call of the "great mentioning." And my name was mentioned
because I was a cabinet member and I'd actually been doing
a lot of TV and stuff. And then somebody said "Well,
no woman can ever be Secretary of State because Arab leaders
won't deal with a woman." And so the Arab ambassadors
at the UN kind of got together and said "We've had
no problems dealing with that Ambassador Albright, we wouldn't have
any problems dealing with Secretary Albright." And then what happened,
somebody at the White House, and I never want to know who,
said "Madeleine's on the list but she's second tier." And so I truly did not
believe that it would happen. And I was surprised
when it did happen. There's a whole story
that goes with it. I was up in New York. And Erskine Bowles,
who was chief of staff, called me in December. And he said-- in '92. And said if the President
of the-- I'm sorry, '96. "If the President of the
United States were to call you, would you take the call?" Duh. "If the President of the
United States were to ask you to be Secretary of
State, would you say yes?" And so I obviously said
yes to both things. And Erskine said "go home, the president will call
you in the morning." And I won't go through all of
it, but it took a long time for the phone call and I was
sure he had changed his mind. And I really did not
believe it would happen. >> Well it did happen and
when you served as Secretary of State, before we get into
the subject of this new book, what would you say is the
greatest accomplishment that you're proud of of having
done the job of Secretary of State other than
being the first woman to be Secretary of State? >> Well I was so
thrilled to be able to represent the United
States, first at the UN and then as Secretary. A really fascinating time. By the way, I was the
last Secretary of State of the 20th century and
the first of the 21st. The only problem is I
started kind of saying that several months after
I was named presumptuously, that the President would
keep me the four years, and he did and so I am. But I think it was a
fascinating time in terms of what had happened in
the post-Cold War period. And what the role of the
United States was going to be. And my background is so crazy. And the history part
is important. My father had been
ambassador in Yugoslavia, the Czechoslovakian ambassador. I actually understood
the Balkans and I understand the language. And so I do think
that the most-- the thing I am proudest
of that I did was to help to end the ethnic
colonizing in Kosovo. And it's 20 years now
that this happened. And I think that it's something
that I'm really proud of. >> So the election is held, George W. Bush is elected
president, and you are stepping down as Secretary of State. You're succeeded
by Colin Powell. What advice did you
give him about the job of Secretary of State? >> Well, let me tell you. Colin Powell and I knew
each other very well. He had actually been
chairman of the joint chiefs in the first part of the
Clinton administration. And we had had some discussions
about the use of force. And we had known
each other very well. And he's named Secretary-- and by the way, it was a
strange period because it took so long to count the votes. And so, I have always believed that the transition is
a very important period. And so Colin and I had quite a
few conversations about that. I did leave a note for
him when I left the office in his desk saying that we have
tried to clean up and make sure that it was neat, but
that basically he was about to take the
best job in the world. And so, we talked
about what it was like to be Secretary of State. And we specifically talked
about something we were in the middle of, which I had
just come from North Korea. Talking to Kim Jong-Il, the
father of the current guy, about the importance of trying
to resolve that problem. Colin was really
going to work on that. And then what happened, frankly,
is that there was a headline in the Post saying "Powell to Continue Clinton
Policies on North Korea." He was hauled into the oval
office and told "no way." But Colin and I spent
a lot of time together. And I think that one of
the important aspects is for current Secretaries of State
to deal with their predecessors. And because it's
a job that is one that one can be very,
very proud of. And having contact with one's
predecessors is important. >> So when you leave
as Secretary of State, do you get secret
service protection for another year or so? Do you get people
to drive you around? What was it like the
first week after you left as Secretary of State? >> Well, there had been some
decision that I was going to have-- it's diplomatic
security. And then Colin calls
me and says well, there really aren't threats
so we're taking it away. So I-- and it's really
strange, because I've lived in Washington a long
time, I certainly knew how to drive around Washington. But I hadn't driven
in eight years. So they had to take me to the counter-terrorism
driving course. And then it's very strange,
having been surrounded by a group of people
for such a long time, to all of a sudden
feel, you really kind of feel naked going out. And the people that were
very nice to me during that period were actually
cab drivers, who would yell out the window "Thank you for
having helped our country." But it was really, really
strange after the protection. And they had all lived in my
garage and they were around. And so, they were
very nice people. And I got to be good
friends with them. >> So when you're a
former Secretary of State, do people laugh at
your jokes as much, or people pay as much homage? Or did you find it was much
different the way people treated you after you left as
Secretary of State? >> Very different, for sure. But I have so many funny stories
about things that happened. And I have a couple of them in
the book, if I might tell one, is I was at Heathrow Airport, which I think you
probably know is one of the more difficult
ones to get through. And all of a sudden, I'm picked
on in order to be the person who has to take everything
out of the suitcase. So I'm there on the floor
taking everything out and I'd finally had it, and I
said to the guy, "Excuse me, but do you know who I am?" And he said "No, but
we can find a doctor that can help you
figure it out." And it was really hard
not to laugh at that. So, and I rarely go around saying I'm the
former Secretary of State. But I couldn't resist
doing that at that moment. >> So one of the things you did
is you started a consulting firm that's now a very, very large, well-known consulting
firm in Washington DC. Had you had any experience as
a private consultant before? And did you get nervous
about starting that business? >> Well, I'll tell you. One of the questions
was what was I going to do when I left office? Because I always, I
had this kind of mantra that whatever I was doing next
had to be more interesting than what I just finished. Hard to do if you've
been Secretary of State. So, there were questions about,
I'd been asked to go back to Georgetown to teach, and
I was going to give speeches, and I'm chairman of the board of the National Democratic
Institute, and then somebody suggested
about starting a business. And I'll tell you
what really happened. And it was based on things that
I learned while I was Secretary. And so what happened, when I
was Secretary, John Chambers from Cisco asked me to come
out to Silicon Valley to talk to the techies about how the
government could help them. And they said, "well the
government can't help us." And I said excuse me? You need the government to get
market access and regulations. And then the opposite happened. I'd been in China, and I
spoke to the American chamber. Huge audiences. And I learned nothing. And so, I then asked to meet
with the representatives of our corporations in China. And they had a very different
view of the kinds of things that were going on from
some of the diplomats. And so then I came
back to the department. And I established a prize
for American corporations that were good local citizens. And I got fascinated
by the whole system of public private partnerships. And so that's basically what
our consulting firm is based on. We work abroad, we don't lobby
or work in the United States. But basically, trying to
help corporations sort out what is happening abroad. And-- but it's something
that came from my experience as Secretary, understanding the
public private partnerships. And when President Obama,
for instance, spoke in Cairo about having a different
relationships with Muslim majority countries,
Secretary Clinton wanted to expand on it and wanted
to do something commercially, this partners for
a new beginning with Muslim majority countries,
and she asked me to do that. So I have been fascinated by the public private
partnership aspect of what can and should be done. >> So you're still the
chair and leading-- the firm's called Albright
Stonebridge, is that right? >> That's correct, yeah. >> Alright. Now you also mentioned
you're heading NDI. The National Democratic
Institute. What is that? >> Well, it's something,
by the way, that was actually
begun by Ronald Reagan. He spoke in the early 80s in
London at parliament and said that democracies
were not real good about explaining
themselves vies a communism. So he came back to
the United States and he started the
Endowment for Democracy, which has four institutes. Business and Labor,
Democrats and Republicans. And so I was made
the first vice chair of the National Democratic
Institute, and it is now-- really I had worked on it before
I went into the government. And it helps in terms
of promoting democracy. You can't impose democracy,
that's an oxymoron. And we are now in 70 countries. And one of the issues
that's always out there is what comes
first, political development or economic development? And they clearly go together because democracy
has to deliver. And so, because people
want to vote and eat. And so I've been very interested
in the kinds of things that NDI is doing now. We're in 70 countries. And we are working in a
time when, as you know, democracy's under threat in
a lot of different places. >> So one other thing that you've also done is
an institute has been set up at your alma mater,
Wellesley College. And how did you happen
to go to Wellesley? You were growing up in Denver after you came to
the United States. How did you happen
to pick Wellesley as a place to go to school? >> Well, what happened was when
we came to the United States, we lived on Long Island. My father was a diplomat
who defected. And at that stage, the Rockefeller Foundation
was finding jobs for people and central European
intellectuals. And they found him a job at
the University of Denver. We had no idea where Denver was. And anyway, we moved to Denver. And I went to a private
school there on scholarship, where there were two teachers
that had gone to Wellesley. And they talked about
Wellesley an awful lot. And at one point, when I was
in Cambridge in Massachusetts, I went to see the campus and
thought it was fantastic. It never occurred to me that I really would
be able to go there. I had to-- I went to school,
college, on scholarship. And they gave me a
wonderful scholarship. And I think one of the
most important things that I ever did was
to go to Wellesley. It has been the basis
of the kinds of things that I learned and friendships. And I'm dedicated to that
college in many ways. And by the way, Hilary
also went to Wellesley. She's 10 years younger
than I am. So we try to do things together. >> And the institute,
what is the institute do? >> Well, the institute
is in order to train young women
in global leadership. And what we do always is between
semesters in January, is-- and this under normal times. The campus is empty and we
bring back 40 Albright fellows that have been chosen,
mostly juniors and seniors, in order to do projects
together. They live on campus together. They get to know each other. And the part that I like about
it is it's multidisciplinary. They are chosen on the
basis of their major, so there are poli-sci and econ
majors, but also science majors and religion majors
and literature majors. And they work together
on projects. And then they have internships
and come back to Wellesley and describe what they
learned out of it. And there's now a cohort. We're 10 years old. So there are about 400
Albright fellows out there. And they are very-- women
are not as good at networking as men are, so they
have all met. They mentor each other,
they work together. And I am very, very proud of it. So this year's a
little complicated. And I was just talking to the
organizers and we are going to do the whole thing virtually. And I try to get speakers to
come and have great discussions. I'm very, very proud of
the Albright Institute. >> Now you also are very
active on the speaking circuit. And what was that like when
you first had a speaking agent and they started sending
you here and there. Did you enjoy that or did
you say it wasn't really as attractive as you
thought it was going to be? >> Well at first I, you know, I thought well this
could be interesting. Since I really know how to talk. But they all of a
sudden showed me, you know, what really happened. And again, Colin Powell is one
of the best speakers in terms of motivating people
for leadership. And they sent me a tape
and I thought oh my god, I'm never going to
be able to do this. But I, it's very interesting,
I've actually enjoyed it because I meet a lot
of different people. And what I like most of all is
not so much giving the speeches but answering questions. I learn an awful lot by the
kind of questions people ask. And being in different places. So I have enjoyed it. And I think that
it's something that-- it's interesting how many kind
of groups are created by people that become a part of some
kind of lecture series. So I have enjoyed it. >> Now, you also make a lot
of commencement speeches. Those are for free. And so forth. Some people charge for
commencement speeches but you obviously do not. But sometimes I read from your
book that you'd do three a year. So how, what's the trick to
keeping people interested in the commencement when they
mostly want to celebrate. >> Well I have to tell you why
I like it, if I might first. It took me a very long
time to get my PhD. And so once I'd gotten
it, I had to go, I wanted to go buy my robes. And my husband said why
would you want to do, where are you going
to wear them? And I said I don't care where
I wear them, I earned them, even if I have to wear
them to the Supermarket. Anyway, I also, since my
father was also a professor, I loved the whole
academic rituals. And so I was very happy
to be invited to come and speak at commencements. And so I do like doing it. I like meeting with
the young people. And I try, you know, there
are all the standard jokes, but I do try to have
a sense of humor. And then I really do like to
shake hands with everybody as they get their degrees. And it really has to
do with my admiration and love for academia. And how important
graduations are. So I do enjoy doing them. >> And you still
teach at Georgetown? >> I do. I'm about, I'm
just getting ready now for the semester. And I'm going to have
to do it virtually. But I enjoy teaching. And I teach a course and I say
foreign policy's just trying to get some country
to do what you want. So what are the tools? And my course is called the
"National Security Toolbox." And David, I don't know if
you're going to remember this, but during the Carter
administration, as you know, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. And the question was
what were we going to do? And we had this crazy
inter-agency meeting and it was, everybody was suggesting
something like cut off their grain
or their fishing rights, or let's not send our
athletes to the Olympics. And I thought what kind
of a crazy thing is this where we don't know what
tools we're going to use? And so I started thinking about what the national
security toolbox looks like. And how the decision
making process works. In order to decide which
tool is going to be used. And the other part I love about our government
is the whole concept of executive legislative
relations. So I try to teach about
things that I know. And I do enjoy teaching. Now you also point out in your
book that you've had time, as a former Secretary of State,
to develop a closer relationship with your grandchildren
and your three daughters, all of whom are adults now. So what has that been like
to kind of spend more time with them and to travel
the world with them? >> Well I have three
fantastic daughters, all of whom are very
busy doing their thing, and six grandchildren. And I try, everything's
different now, but I've tried to
see them a lot. We have spent occasions
together. And I try, one of them lives in, that family lives
in San Francisco. So I'm always ready to go there. What I-- at the moment, three of my grandchildren
are college students. So we're talking about
how things work now. But they are the ones that
give me my optimism and hope. And they're very, they're great. I was giving a talk
in San Francisco and my grandson said
well I didn't know that grandma Maddie
could be so funny. So I think I've surprised
them a little bit. And by the way, my granddaughter
from that family said that, this was about eight years
ago now, what's the big deal about grandma Maddie
being Secretary of State? [Inaudible] for Secretary
of State. So, there have been a lot of
good things that I've learned from my grandchildren who
say funny things, too. >> They don't call
you Madam Secretary? They call you grandma Maddie? Well you have been
succeeded by two women who have been Secretaries
of State, let's talk about that briefly. Condie Rice. You once tried to recruit
her for a democratic campaign because you knew a
little bit about her. And what was her relationship
and what did she tell you? >> Well this is one of these
crazier stories and all, my father, as I said,
went to Denver. He became a pretty
big deal in Denver. And he died in 1977. And there was a funeral with
lots of flowers and tributes. And among them was this ceramic
pot in the shape of a piano with just some leaves in it. So I said to my mother
where did this come from? And she said it's from your
father's favorite student, Condoleezza Rice. She had been a music
major, hence the piano. And she had gone to Notre
Dame to get her masters and she was working on
her PhD with my father. So this African American
music major from Alabama wrote
her dissertation on the Czechoslovakian military. So, in 1987 when I was
working for Michael Dukakis and my job was to find foreign
policy advisors for a group. So I thought why not? I'll call her, woman, teaches on
the west coast, Soviet expert. So I asked her. And she said Madeleine,
I don't know how to tell you this,
but I'm a republican. And I said Connie,
how could you be? We had the same father. So, we talked about that a lot. And we do see each other. >> And one of the other women who succeeded you
was Hilary Clinton. What was the nature of
your relationship with her? >> Well let me go
back on something. You had asked about
becoming Secretary of State. One of the things that happened
when I finally became Secretary of State and I was traveling
with her and President Clinton and we did this shtick abroad
where I would introduce her and she would introduce him, and
he said that during this period of great mentioning, that
Hilary would go to him and say why wouldn't
you name Madeleine? She is most in tune
with your interests and expresses them better
than anybody else and besides, it would make your mother happy. So I owe this all to her. But the thing that happened
when I was UN ambassador, there were all these
jokes always that Hilary was channeling
Eleanor Roosevelt. And as you know, Eleanor
Roosevelt was very active at the UN. And Hilary would come up. And I would introduce her
around to the other ambassadors. And she would stay with me. And we go to be very
good friends. And one of the things I'm always
asked about is life balance. And this is just proof
of how difficult it is. As you know, the Beijing
Women's Conference happened and Hilary wanted
me to go with her. And I had to leave my youngest
daughter's wedding reception to get on the plane to
go to the conference where she said women's
rights are human rights and human rights
are women's rights. And I admire her greatly. We did a lot of things together. Kind of a tag team. And she was-- when
I was Secretary, one of our really very important
ambassadors informally, in terms of the way she
met with so many people and represented our values. >> When you became Secretary
of State, it was revealed, to your surprise, that your
parents were born Jewish. Your grandparents had
been Jewish and several of them had been killed by
the Nazis in the Holocaust. And then you wrote about that
in several of your books. But in this book, you
reveal something that's new. That you went back and
saw, I think it's one of your grandmother's diaries
that you had never seen before. How did you not know
about that diary before and what did you
find in that diary? >> Well let me just go back
on something is, you know, I-- when I first became
UN ambassador and all of a sudden my name was in the
papers all the time, and so, one of the things
that happened was that I started getting letters from people saying they were
relatives and they wanted a Visa and didn't make any sense. And then in '96 I
get this letter where the whole story
is told to me. And I'm just being
vetted to be secretary. And so, I-- it's a longer story but I finally did learn the
full truth on some things. What happened is
when my father died, my mother moved to Washington. And then when she died, all her
papers were transferred to me and they were just in my garage. I'm trying to figure out
what to do with them. And then that diplomatic
security moved in and couldn't, you know, I had to move
everything to a storage area. And one day in 2014, I
was looking for something in the storage area in one of
those public storage areas, and I find this envelope and
inside is this amazing diary. And I didn't know
about it at all. But it has been in so many
ways like a message in a bottle from a different generation. And it's quite phenomenal. And I did translate it
and it is in the book. >> So your papers, all of your
papers, as Secretary of State, UN ambassador, other
things, eventually will go to the Library of
Congress, is that right? >> Yes. I'm just doing that. I'm very excited about that. And I can't tell you David,
you are so big into history and all the things you've done,
I can't quite express what it's like to be even a footnote
in American history. And I was at the
National Archives, and all of a sudden
I see this letter that was President Clinton
nominating me to be secretary. And so-- and I had done an awful
lot of research in the Library of Congress for my dissertation. And so nothing makes me
happier than to be able to have my papers at
the Library of Congress. >> So as we wrap up here, I
would like to ask just one or two final questions. One is with the theme of the book festival here
is American Ingenuity. And you are an example of a
great immigrant who has come in, risen up to the top
at the United States. But how would you describe
ingenuity as part of your life? Problem solving, or what would
you say is part of your life in terms of ingenuity? >> Well one of the things, I
was asked to describe myself in six words recently. And I said "worried optimist, problem silver, grateful
American." And I have always tried
to have a positive view about what can be done. And to really try
to solve problems. And I am grateful
to have been able to come to the United States. And so the combination
of all of that, I do think what is remarkable
about Americans is the sense of ingenuity and exploration. And trying to solve problems. And so, and I now, I have to
say, from my teaching experience and spending time
with young people and the Wellesley Institute,
I really do have faith in the younger generation. Because we are not going
back to status quo. You have to use our
ingenuity now to solve some of the most complicated
problems. And we are problem solvers. A nation of optimists
that are problem solvers. And so I'm glad to be able
to hopefully see changes that will allow us to
solve some of the problems and use our ingenuity
and not look backwards. >> Now, I forgot to ask you. "Hell and Other Destinations,"
this is your seventh book. Where did the title come from? >> Well the most famous
thing I ever said was that there's a special
place in hell for women who don't help each other. It was so famous it ended
up on a Starbucks cup. And it came from my own
experience where as I was trying to develop my life,
in many ways I found that there were many
women who were judgmental about what I was doing. It was a very different era. And they would say why are
you going to get your degree when you should be at
home with your children? Or besides my hollandaise
sauce is better than yours. Or, as I traveled around
with Geraldine Ferraro as vice presidential
candidate, there would be women who would come up to me and say "how can she talk
to the Russians? I can't talk to a Russian." And I thought why is it that
women project our own sense of inadequacy on other women? So I thought that we needed
to-- and I was so often, David, the only woman in the room. And I kind of thought, we
need more women in the room and there is a special
place in hell for women who don't support each other. And so, that's where
the statement came from. I hadn't focused-- this book
was written before the virus. I hadn't focused on the effect of how germane the
title is today. >> Okay. So Madeleine, why
is history so important? Why is it important
that people write books about what they've done? Why do we really need to
know about what you did as Secretary of State? Why is history so
important to you? >> Well, history is
incredibly important to me. Because I have seen what happens when people don't
know their history or don't understand the
effect of their history. And how it shapes
people's lives. And so I grew up with a father
and mother but who really talked about the history of the country where I was born,
Czechoslovakia. Things that had also
happened in Europe earlier. And I love history. And when I teach, and
I teach this course on the National Security
Toolbox, I love to go back and explain the history of what
led to the following issues that we're dealing with. And I think you can't
function in the world today if you don't understand
the history. And so I do think it's
incredibly important. And I do think that sometimes
it is elaborated on well with personal stories. And so I just have been talking
to some of my former students and they love to hear some
of the stories that are part of the history that
I was involved in. Relationships with
various leaders. How you deal with people that
or have done terrible things, like Milosevic with the Serbs and how you get your
point across. And I do think that the
stories also can elaborate. And nobody's better than you
in this in terms of the book that you have put together, in
terms of the background stories on American presidents. With people that
wrote about them. So I do think history
and telling it in a way that grabs people's
imagination and puts the reader or the listener into understanding what was
really taking place at the time, in order to understand
how issues came about and how they were solved. >> So you're going to be
giving your pin collection to the State department museum. But what does that
particular pin that you're wearing
now symbolize? >> Well, I'll tell you. It's very direct
to the last book. Because in that book, I do talk
about what it was like to be in England during World War II. My father was a Czechoslovak
diplomat. He was working with the
government in exile. I spent the Blitz in
London as a little girl. And my father broadcast
over BBC. And I would listen to BBC and
every broadcast would begin with a kettledrum of the first
five notes of Beethoven's 5th. And it's Morse code
for "V for Victory." And so I thought that exactly
because of the history aspect of it, the it would be a good
pin to wear for this book tour. >> Okay, so when will you
be writing your next book? This is the seventh, do you
have another one in mind? And you're going to write one about the next ten
years of your career? >> Well, we'll see. I hadn't planned it. But we'll see. Because something comes up. I mean for instance, one of
the books that I wrote was about the role of God and
religion in foreign policy. Because I thought that
it was not understood. And so, but as I
said, I do have help. And I enjoy putting--
helping to put it together. And I do enjoy actually the book
tours and talking about things and having an opportunity to
learn a lot from the audiences that are able to
be a part of it. >> Well, Madeleine, I enjoyed
thoroughly reading the book. Congratulations on
getting it done. And congratulations on
everything you've done in your career and
for our country. Thank you for doing this. >> Thank you David, for all
you do and for our friendship. Thank you. [ Music ]
