[music] Marcus Grodi: Good evening and
welcome to 'The Journey Home'. I'm Marcus Grodi,
your host for this program. Once again, we can sit
back and relax, and we can hear
how the Holy Spirit has touched someone's life. Our guest tonight is
Melissa Slagle, former Baptist, and I'll mention
right in the beginning that her written story, which is
called "Where Is My Paul?" and I think you're going
to find out about why she called it that, you can
find that on our website, Melissa, welcome to
'The Journey Home'. Melissa Slagle: Thank
you so much, Marcus. Marcus: It's good
to have you here. Melissa: It's really
good to be here. This feels incredibly full
circle for me, and as I tell my story, that's
going to become clear why. Marcus: Right.
Melissa: So… Marcus: I was going to say, it's
good to see you again. Melissa: Yeah. Marcus: Because we
had connected you… Melissa: That's right.
That's right. We did get to meet two years ago at one of the
retreats, the 'Coming Home Retreat',
such a beautiful blessed time, and I cannot wait to go again,
going in October. Marcus: All right.
Melissa: Going again. Yeah. Marcus: Then, let's start at the
beginning and hear your journey. Melissa: Okay. Well,
the beginning starts with my mom and dad. I was blessed to be born
into a Christian home. My dad was raised in
a very faithful Baptist home. My grandparents, my paternal grandparents,
I would say, they were probably the most
clear example I had of Christianity all my
growing up, all my adult life. I was really blessed
to have them. My mom's beginning,
it was actually a little different with my mom. She was actually baptized
into the Catholic Church and received her First
Holy Communion, but… Marcus: Now,
how'd that happen? Melissa: Well, it was from
her dad's side of the family. Marcus: Okay. Melissa: And her parents
were divorced when she was really young,
and then, she became estranged, sadly,
from that part of the family, so I actually did not know
she had been baptized into the Catholic Church, until
I was on my way into the Church. So, that was... Marcus: Maybe from a
Baptist standpoint, they didn't want to admit that. Melissa: Well,
I don't know. It was because she, her
bringing was Baptist, primarily with her mom, and then,
a little bit of Methodist. But interestingly enough,
when we moved; I was born in Louisiana, but when I was five-years-old,
I have three siblings, older brother and sister,
younger brother, so there was four of us. But we moved from Louisiana
to Texas when I was five, and when we moved to Texas,
we became Lutheran. And it wasn't, I actually
recently asked my dad, because I've always
been curious, 'Why? How'd that happened?
Why did that happen?' And so, I visited
with my mom and dad just a few weeks ago about this,
and it was no, there was not a, there was no, like,
there was no crisis of faith. There was no break with
the Baptist tradition, anything like that. It was primarily because
they were in a new place, and some friends
invited them. They really
liked the pastor. There was a lot of great
things for us kids to be involved in, and so, we stayed
there for almost seven years, and my, in fact, my older
brother and sister were confirmed in
the Lutheran Church, and we all four were
baptized Lutheran. So, but when I was about
11 or 12, we just, it was a gradual thing. We quit going to church. My dad took up a love for
camping and canoeing, and so, that took up a
lot of our weekends. My older brother and sister were
getting into high school age. They had jobs. Life just got busy. That just kind of happens. So, I was pretty
unchurched then, other than going with friends,
sleepovers, that kind of thing, and the rest of... Marcus: I was going to
say, when you look back before that transition, then,
in your early Baptist, and then, Lutheran upbringing, had you come to faith you
think as a young person? Melissa: I'm so glad you
asked me that because just reflecting about my life,
kind of preparing for this show, I realized there was
never a day in my life, not one day in my life
that I have a memory that I did not believe in God. And I don't know, I just
count that as a blessing. I think my grandparents, my grandmother was always
talking to me about God, and my whole life. Marcus: Yeah.
Praise God. Melissa: And so, and my parents,
even when we went through this period of time where we weren't actually
going to church, they absolutely continued to
teach us Christian values, and God was always important,
okay. So, I feel really
lucky to have had that. But then, something happened
when I was in high school. So, I always had the
knowledge of God, always believed in God,
but I didn't have a really good understanding of a
personal relationship with God. And so, I was 15-years-old,
in high school, and I had a teacher.
Her name was Anne Vandertie, and she was a beautiful woman. She was just, you just
wanted to be around her. And she led a Bible study in her
classroom after school, and a friend of mine asked me to
attend, and so, I went. And one day she said,
"Melissa, can you stay after
when everyone leaves?" I don't know what she
had picked up on, but she asked me to stay,
so I did. And we had that conversation. And she shared her
testimony with me. And at the age of 15, I came into a personal
relationship with Jesus. I asked Jesus to be
my Lord and Savior. I got the Savior part
really, really well. I understood, for the
first time, in a new way, because, you always know, I grew up learning
all the Bible stories. I knew that God
had died for us, but there was a difference in
understanding that God had died for me personally, so that was a very strong
conversion for me. Marcus: I have to say
something here, that, I mean, we rejoice in
infinite ways on the grace that God conveyed through your
grandmother and your parents, and then,
you knew God all your life, and then, but the grace
that a teacher could still have a Bible study
in her classroom. Melissa: Yep. She was bold.
She was, that she… Marcus: You can't
do that today. Melissa: You
can't do it today. No, you absolutely
could not do it today. Marcus: Oh boy, but praise God,
at least for your life… Melissa: That she did. Marcus: …that that teacher
was able to, and willing, and then, to invite you
afterwards and share her own testimony. Melissa: That's right.
That's right, and I always tell people, when I
talk about her, "The most amazing thing about
Miss Vandertie," Miss Tie is what we called her, is, she just lived Jesus in
front of us, before she ever spoke His name, before she ever
opened a Bible in front of me, she lived Him in front of me, so that when she did
share that story, my heart was ready to hear it, because she had been living it
in front of me, and so,
that was a very... Marcus: What tradition
did she come from? Did she ever say? Melissa: Well, that's
interesting, too. She was originally Catholic.
I did not know that until two years ago, and this
happened when I was 15. I'm not 15 anymore.
I'm much more than 15. But she was
non-denominational… Marcus: Yeah, okay. Melissa: Evangelical,
Evangelical, and, but we were able;
she recently passed away. But before she died,
we reconnected, and I was able to tell her
I'd become Catholic, and she rejoiced in that. She rejoiced in the growth, and
she rejoiced in the maturity, in the, because I had shared
with her new conversions, because that's
what I've learned, is that you're,
there's conversion happening our whole life. It's not a one-and done
situation. So, like I said, at 15, I really understood the Savior
part of it. He became my
personal Savior. I really got that.
I really felt that within me. What I did not understand
and did not grasp and live was the lordship. That came later.
That came much, much later. Marcus: We Americans don't
deal well with lordship. Melissa: No, no. Marcus: We don't
have kings. Melissa: Nope, nope. Marcus: We don't have that, so we don't have
models for lordship, and the; sometimes, the political leaders
don't make good models for lordship. Melissa: Well,
that's very true. That is very true. But yeah, so I was just
a happy 15-year-old, now, knowing that God had
died personally for me. I'm just living my life. I went to church occasionally
with friends, yet again. Fast-forward, though, let's
fast-forward a couple of years, and my life was about to get
very, very serious. The very ripe old age of 17,
I became a wife and mom. I got married,
my high school sweetheart, he was 19, I was 17, and we were
married for five years. We had two children,
and then, we divorced. Now, thankfully, once again,
my family, that could have been a real
terrible time in my life, difficult time, but they
were right there, thanks be to God. They were just right
there supporting me. So, I went through that,
and that was difficult. God was kind of in the
background through all, throughout all of that. Marcus: You all weren't…? Melissa: No. Marcus: … active
in the Church? Melissa: No, no. When we went, we went
to a Baptist church. I had pretty much returned to my
Baptist roots at that point. And so, when we went,
that's where we went, but it was not a regular
thing at all. My children had not been
baptized at that point. When we got divorced, my oldest was five and
my youngest was three. And then, two years later,
I met Scott, who is my current husband. We've been married for almost,
33 years, almost 33 years. My dad always says, "God broke the mold
when he made Scott." And it's
very, very true. I knew there was something
different about Scott. The very first question he
asked me, before we went on our
very first date, was, "Are you a Christian?" That was really important
to him, and I knew that. I knew there was something
different about him, but what I didn't know was that
he had been praying for a wife. He had been praying that
God would send him a wife. Now, we were young still.
I was 24. He was 23. I had two children, and we
became an instant family. We got engaged
six weeks after we met, and we have been married
almost 33 years. I guess when you know,
you know. My grandparents actually
set that example. They did the
exact same thing, and they were married
almost 60 years by the time, when
my grand-daddy passed away. They had been married
almost 60 years at that point, so I had a
good example in them. Marcus: But it sounds like
the two of you began with the assumption that this
was an answer to prayer. Melissa: Absolutely.
Marcus: Yeah. Melissa: Absolutely. I did, I had no
idea how much... [clears throat]
excuse me, of an answer to prayer it was,
but I knew it was. Marcus: Our guest
is Melissa Slagle. What was the flavor of
Christianity that he was bringing
into the mix? Melissa: Well, that's,
he was Presbyterian. He was raised
Presbyterian, but Scott did not attend church
at this point in his life. He had kind of a bad taste
in his mouth about the politics of church,
how it can be, and Scott always
said things like, "You can worship God anywhere, even on the golf course."
He's an avid golfer. So, we did attend church
occasionally, but it wasn't until we moved
across the street from my sister and her husband that we joined formally
a Baptist church. They were very active in
their Baptist church, and just loved it, and so,
I really wanted to join. I wanted to go to church
with my sister and have that family connection. Scott, on the other hand,
was not too keen on it until he met the
preacher, Sonny. Sonny was fantastic, and he
answered all of our questions, and so, that next Sunday, after
that meeting in our home, that next Sunday, Scott and I
made a profession of faith, before the congregation,
and we were baptized. Now, we had both been
baptized before, but we were baptized and became full members of
the Baptist Church. Marcus: I might interrupt here
and just ask, where, at all, was the Catholic Church in your
lives up until this point, anything?
Would you think about it, or did it cross your mind? Melissa: Not, never. Never, I was not,
we were never, I wouldn't say we were
anti-Catholic at all. We were just
completely indifferent. It was not on the radar… Marcus: Yeah.
Melissa: …at all. Marcus: Probably,
except though, like, you might have gone to the
Presbyterian church or back to the Lutheran church, you might have gone to the
Baptist church, but you would have passed by
that Catholic church. Melissa: Oh, gosh, yes.
Marcus: Okay. Melissa: We got married in
the Presbyterian Church. Marcus: Okay. Melissa: But yes, we,
Catholic, never. No, no, no, no, no. And it wasn't, like I said, we weren't like
against Catholicism. We just,
or I didn't think we were, but we just never
thought about it. We would have never
thought about it. So, until one day, no,
that we're going to get to, but so, yeah, so we lived
very happily, Baptist. We took our children, both, all three of our children
eventually were baptized in
the Baptist Church. And then, I'm going to kind of
move the story along here to the day that it happened. So, let's see,
we were living in, we moved to east Texas. This is when
we moved to east Texas, and we bought our home, and we
moved across the street from this lovely family,
a Pentecostal family, and we became instant
friends with them. Now, at this point, our
oldest was already in college, and we had our
two daughters at home. My oldest, Casey,
who is 17, and my youngest, Jennifer,
who was 11 at the time, okay. So, the people across the
street, Mark and Gretchen, they were Pentecostal and
very faithful Pentecostal. I mean, Gretchen,
Gretchen and I were both stay-at-home moms,
and so, we spent a lot of time together,
during the day, during the week, when the kids were at school,
and things like that. I'd go over and have
coffee with her. She always had her Bible open.
She was so faithful. She wore her hair long,
never cut it, always in dresses, and I
remember thinking, I was just so in awe of that. I thought, 'Wow, she just
does this humble thing, this humble beauty,
to honor God,' and I just thought that was just
so beautiful, and we talked about God all the time,
she and I, but we never talked about our
differences and beliefs, ever, until my daughter,
my oldest daughter, Casey, came home one Sunday morning
after spending the whole night at Gretchen's house,
visiting with her and Gretchen's younger sister,
who is also Casey, and Gretchen had basically
shared her testimony, very much like that teacher did
with me, with my daughter, and she came bursting through
the door that Sunday morning, I will never forget it,
all excited, "Mom, I'm going to go to church
with Gretchen and Casey." And I said, "Oh, okay.
That's okay. You can do that." She heads down the hall, and
then, she comes back, and if anybody knows my
daughter, they know how animated she is
and just, she's just this little
lightning bug, and she said, "Oh, Mom, I'm going
to get the Holy Ghost." And I said, just like that,
I said, "You're, you're what?"
Marcus: Yeah. Melissa: And she said, "I don't
have time to explain, Mom. I'll explain later." And
I thought, 'Okay.' So, she gets ready. I go across street.
"Hi, Gretchen. So, Casey's going to church with
you to get the Holy Ghost. What does that mean?" Because, as a Baptist, the
way I understood that was, when my daughter made a
profession of faith, when she walked the aisle, as
a little child, and asked Jesus into her heart,
she received the Holy Spirit. So, I had no idea what she
was talking about, and she wanted to be
re-baptized. Well, Gretchen didn't
really have time to explain everything. She was trying to get her
family ready for church. I said, "It's okay.
We'll talk later." I wasn't really concerned,
but I wanted to know. So, I did what any mom
would do, and I Googled it, and so, I spent the
entire day on the computer looking up what that
meant, but I found out
many other things, because they were not your
mainstream Pentecostal. They were actually what's called
the UPC, United Pentecostal. They believe in oneness, and
when I learned what that meant, and for your audience, in case
they're not familiar, the UPC,
Oneness Pentecostals, they deny the Holy Trinity. They do not believe
in the Holy Trinity. They do not baptize in
the name of the Trinity, Father, Son and
Holy Spirit. They baptize in Jesus'
name only, because they believe that Jesus
is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So, I read that
and that was very startling. The Holy Ghost, they
believe that when you receive the Holy Ghost,
that's when you're saved, and there will be a sign,
you will speak in tongues. So, when my daughter said she's
going to get the Holy Ghost, what she meant was,
'I'm going to get saved and I'll speak in tongues.' And then, she would have to be
baptized in Jesus' name only, because in their own words, my friend has actually
said this to me, "If you're baptized in anything
but the name of Jesus, all you got was wet."
So, yeah, so I learned all that I did not know about
the United Pentecostal Church. So of course, I immediately
tried to dissuade my daughter from doing that because I also
learned what I thought was just a beautiful, humble way
of dress, honoring God. No, it was actually
a matter of sin. If they didn't dress that way, then they were backslidden,
as they put it, and actually their soul
would be in peril. And so, I've never seen
anybody change as fast as my young daughter
changed, not just in appearance. Her whole demeanor
changed, Marcus. She became very
withdrawn, almost fearful. She just had this
sense about her. And now, I know, because she and
I've talked about it so much, she was fearful.
She was afraid for us. She was afraid that we
were going to go to Hell. And so, I couldn't talk to her.
I couldn't talk to her about it, so I did what I knew to do, and that would be to talk to
my friend, Gretchen. And my whole point, Marcus, was
to get Casey out of that church, and I thought to myself,
'Well, the way to do that, Gretchen convinced her
to join the Church, so Gretchen will be able to
convince her to leave the Church.' So, I thought
if I can convince Gretchen, then she'll be able
to convince Casey. So, I did what a good
Baptist girl knew to do, and I went straight into
the Scriptures, straight into the Bible, and I devoured the New
Testament, day in and day out, literally. And it's really interesting,
because I went in with an agenda. My agenda was to
prove them wrong. God had other plans.
God had other plans. What happened was, I fell
madly in love with Jesus. And the second part of
that conversion began. When I was 15, I came to
the knowledge He was my Savior, but as I poured over the
New Testament, I came to the knowledge that He was
my Lord, and what that meant, and I wanted nothing more than
to please Him, that's all I wanted, and at the same time, to get
my daughter out of that church. So, I enlisted the help of
my younger brother, who is a deacon. He gave me some resources
and prayed with me, and talked with me, and showed
me some Scriptures that would help. I also enlisted the help of my
sister and brother, brother-in-law. They were very involved
in their Baptist church. They taught youth group
and things like that. We started a Bible study
in our home and invited people from this
church, and our hope was that if we pray together, and
we read the Scriptures together, surely, they're going to see it. Well, they had the same hope that, surely,
we were going to see it. Marcus: Because you're
using the same book. Melissa: Using the same Bible,
praying to the same God. They're going to see it. Marcus: But? Melissa: That's
not what happened. Marcus: And then, yeah,
that's part of the; it's funny, that's part of the problem
that's behind so much of so many of the
'Journey Home' episodes, if you will, over the years,
because the Scriptures, that's been the problem
throughout the history of the Church, is
that some of the earliest committed
Christians, Biblical Christians, ended up what's called Arian. They would take Scriptures
that mean, 'Jesus is Lord, but how does He connect
with the Father? How does He connect
with the Spirit?' And so, you're, Oneness
Pentecostal, that they're doing what they believe
is what Scripture tells them.. Melissa: Absolutely.
Marcus: ..to do. Melissa: Absolutely.
Oh, there's no doubt. I remember sitting and talking
with Gretchen one day for literally hours,
and we would pour over the Scriptures
together. And she would,
what she would see would be so different
than what I saw, and I went home that day,
and I kind of just cried out to God,
almost in frustration, and just said,
"God, why doesn't she see it? Why doesn't she see it?" And that little quiet
voice in your head? I heard him say, "Maybe
it's you that doesn't see." Marcus: Interesting. There is a verse in Acts, and
I can't think of it right now, we could dig through
and find it, where the verse actually says,
"They were baptized in the name of Jesus
and spoke in tongues." That's their verse.
Melissa: Yes, it is. Marcus: That's their
verse, and that becomes the definitive verse for
all the other Scriptures. Melissa: Absolutely. Marcus: So, what do you do
with Matthew where it says, "Baptize in the name of
the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit"? Well, Acts is later, so they would have their
argument that would say, "This is..."
So, there's the problem. 'We got this from,
we got this verse. I got this verse, got to
get through this verse.' How do you decide
which verse? Melissa: Exactly,
that's exactly, that was exactly my dilemma.
And when.. Marcus: It was neat to see
that you came to a deeper faith in Christ as opposed to
the crisis of, 'Oh, no, what do I do?' Melissa: Oh, no, no, no,
He called me right to Himself, right to Himself. And as I, when I heard
that little whisper, though, I have to say it
kind of knocked me back a little because I thought,
'No, what do you mean, maybe it's me, that doesn't,
of course, I see.' But Marcus, that was the first
time I ever even considered that maybe I was the one wrong,
and maybe they were right, and that terrified me. I'll be honest,
that terrified me, because
what if they were right? That was going
to be a big deal. Marcus: Yeah, you wonder where
that whisper is coming from. Melissa: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Marcus: Now, we're going to take
a break in a little bit, but I was just thinking that
there may be someone out there that says, 'I don't
get this bit between, 'He's my Savior,
and He's my Lord.'' Melissa: Yeah, yeah. Marcus: Talk a bit about,
when you said you discovered He's your Lord. Melissa: That's right.
That's right. So, as my Savior, I mean it was
a very, I was very young, and had been kind of unchurched
for a little while, so my savior, I understood that
He had died personally for me. That when I prayed, it changed my prayer life
more than anything, that when I prayed, that it
became much more personal; but as far as lordship,
submitting my actual will, I had no place
to put the word holiness. I had no understanding
of sanctification. I had no understanding of truly
submitting all of my life to His Lordship,
to being obedient. Obedience was not
part of my vocabulary. It was all love, all mercy, all,
there was nothing beyond that. So, when I started reading
the New Testament, really devouring
the New Testament, honestly, during this period
of my life, I saw that there was
so much more, and I just fell in love with Him to the point of,
I just needed to please Him. I needed to be
under His Lordship. I wanted to be nothing
more than obedient to Him. All I wanted
with His truth. Yeah. Marcus: When a person has
an awakening to Jesus as Savior, 'My sins are gone,
I'm a new person.' Melissa: That's right.
Marcus: 'A new creation. The old is gone,
the new has come.' Melissa: That's right. Marcus: In many ways, that's
what enthusiastically empowers a person to go out
and share their faith, because, 'Look what He's done
in my life.' Melissa: Mm-hmm. Marcus: 'He's going to
do this in yours.' That's evangelization. But then you get to that
verse that says, "Whoever will follow Me,
must deny himself…" Melissa: Yes. Marcus: "…and take up
his cross and follow Me." Melissa: That's right. Marcus: That's
not Him as Savior. Melissa: That's Him as Lord.
That's right. Marcus: And then, in a
sense, that's not the kind of the end of this new life that
I'm going to go out and share. It's the beginning…
Melissa: That's right. Marcus: ..of, really,
what that saving means. What does it mean
to deny myself? What does it mean to
take up that cross? What does it really mean
to follow You, Jesus? Melissa: Yep. Marcus: That's a
whole different thing. Melissa: Absolutely,
completely different. Marcus: Yeah, yeah, and a
lot of people I've heard it described that
the faith is here, but it didn't quite get to here.
Melissa: That's right. Marcus: Well, that's what
you're talking about. Melissa: That's right.
That's right. Marcus: You got..
[blows air]. So, let's take a break,
and I do want to remind the audience that if you
go to CHNetwork.org, which is the website for the Coming Home Network
International, you'll find not only
Melissa's story, "Where Is My Paul?" but you'll find lots of
other conversion stories and also information
about the work that we do. We even have a retreat coming up
that you'll talk about, so you'll find out
about that on our website, CHNetwork.org. Be back in a moment. [music] [music] Marcus: Welcome back
to The Journey Home. I'm Marcus Grodi, your host,
and our guest is Melissa Slagle,
former Baptist. We've interrupted
her story. Now, we'll jump back in,
because it seemed, one of the things that I'm
remembering about what you just said a moment ago
that sticks out for me, was not just this desire
to make sure your daughter gets the fullness, and
you're going to talk with this mother, but your
daughter's fear, your daughter,
that there was a sense in which you noticed
that in her. Melissa: Oh, yes.
Oh, yes. Her whole personality changed. Now, she wasn't able to
articulate it to me at the time. She wasn't able to say to me [clears throat] that she had these fears
for her family. That came to light later
afterwards, but that was what was
happening with her. That's what they were
telling her that she was the light in our
dark home, and she, that we were all in danger. We were all in danger of
going to Hell, basically, because we did not see
things the same way. Marcus: So then,
of all the things, when you're studying the
Scripture to correct them, you hear this voice that
says, "Well, maybe.." Melissa: "Maybe it's you."
Marcus: "Maybe it's you." Melissa: "Maybe it's you."
So, that was the first time that I ever even considered that
they could be right, and it did unsettle me. It absolutely
unsettled me. So, I remember thinking to
myself, though, because I had spent that
a little bit of time, seven years in the Lutheran
Church, and I had a lot of great memories, childhood
memories of that church. And so, I thought to
myself, 'I wonder what a Lutheran pastor
would say about all this?' because we left when
I was about 11 or 12, so I didn't have a good
memory of everything. And so, I chose one
particular thing, baptism, because they did baptism
so differently than how I understood it in the Bap-,
and it wasn't just that they baptized in the
name of Jesus only. That was big enough, but
they actually believed that sin was
remitted in baptism. Now, as a Baptist, I
did not believe that. So, I thought, 'Okay, what,
I wonder what my, I was baptized in the
Lutheran Church, but I was very young,
so I wonder what Lutherans believe
about baptism?' So, I looked it up. Hmm, they don't believe
what I believe, and they don't believe
what she believes. Hmm, so then, I thought,
'Oh, we were married in the Presbyterian Church. Scott was raised Presbyterian,'
so I looked that up. Yet again, different,
different once again, very different. And then, we had a Church
of Christ minister that lived on our street, so
I thought, 'Huh, I wonder what Pastor thinks
about that.' So, I found out what
the Church of Christ teaches. Now, these were five,
it was Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Lutheran,
Baptist, and now, the United Pentecostal Church. We're all reading the same
Bible, we're all praying to the same God, but
we have five very, very different beliefs in what
baptism is, what it does, how to do it, why to
do it, when to do it? All of it. And I thought,
'Something is wrong. Something's wrong.' So,
I had been, like I said, really pouring over the
New Testament, and I remembered in the
Book of First Corinthians that there was something going on, there were some problems
they were having, and I thought,
'I'm going to go into the First Corinthians,
and I'm going to read it really prayerfully, and God is
going to show me what to do about all
these divisions,' because that
was my question mark. And so, I was like,
'Why is this happening? And the fact that it is,
what do we do about it? How do we resolve this?' And so I sat down, thought
I had a great plan, started reading and
figured out really, really quickly what they did. So, the Church of Corinth,
they were having some problems. Quite a few divisions. They sent word to Paul
who was in prison, and this letter that I was
reading was his response. And he came in,
and he basically, he told them right up front,
'There should be no division, no division among you. You should speak the same thing,
have the same judgment.' And then, the entire letter
is about him giving them instruction on what
is right, and what is wrong, and how to do this,
and how to do that. And I thought, 'Wow,' and
I'm not proud of this, but I got angry and I slammed
my Bible shut and I said, "Well, good for them.
Good for them." And then, I just looked up to
Heaven, and I said, "But, Lord,
where is my Paul?" hence, the name of my story,
"Where Is My Paul? Who do I go to? Who do Gretchen and I go
to, to settle this for us, because obviously,
we're not settling it." So then, began this search of,
'Why are we divided? What do we do about it?
How do we know?' I asked everybody I knew,
everybody I knew, and everybody said the
exact same thing. "Well, we're just divided
over non-essential issues. We agree on the essentials."
I said, "No, we don't." I said, "I'm pretty sure the
Church of Christ believes baptism
is pretty essential. So, we don't even agree on
what is or isn't essential." So, that did not settle with me,
but nobody seemed concerned. I was the only one concerned,
and I couldn't let it go, though, because I knew, 'This is
not right, it's not right.' And then, one day,
Gretchen's sister.. Marcus: I have to
interrupt here, hold on... Melissa: Oh, okay.
That's okay. Marcus: no, no, no, no, I,
it's just something, it isn't self-serving here, but
the reason I wanted to air drop is because something you just
did reminds me so much, and I know that I have an old
seminary friend of mine who isn't Catholic,
who watches this program. And what I want to remember is
what you just talked about reminds me of something that
used to happen at seminary with me,
non-denominational seminary. We would sit around and argue
just what you're talking about with all our Bibles open from
all those different churches, and we'd all have our verses
that would defend our position. And not a one of us could
change each other, because we didn't have a Paul. Melissa: That's right.
That's right. Marcus: We didn't have an
authority that could say, 'Okay, guys,' because
we just had our Bible. Melissa: That's right. Marcus: We may have had leaders
of our denomination that we would fall back on,
but what was their authority? Melissa: That's right. Marcus: It just reminds me
just what you're talking about. Melissa: Oh, my gosh. Well, and what
we don't realize is, I don't care who you are, what
your background is, what your faith tradition is,
when you pick up that Bible, you are reading
it through a lens. There is a lens you
are reading it through. It could be your own
life experience, your own intellectual ability, your faith tradition, things you've been taught, but you're reading it
through a lens. And somebody actually
pointed that out to me. Somebody asked, I said,
"I just don't understand how they're
coming up with this." And she said to me, "Well,
they've been taught this, and then, they're reading
the Scriptures through that teaching." And I went, "Oh, I never
considered though that we were doing the same thing." We were doing the same thing,
until I saw exactly what you're talking about. So, Gretchen's sister, Casey, that had talked to
my daughter, Casey, was visiting again. And Gretchen and I were in
one of these discussions, and Casey interrupts,
and she says, "Melissa, you're not going to find the
answer to that question." And I said,
"What do you mean?" And she said,
"There is no way to know. None of us can know if
we're right or wrong." She said, "I figure we're just
all a little bit right, a little bit wrong, and God
will figure it out in the end." And I sat there,
and I looked at her, and I thought, 'That's probably
the most honest answer anybody's given me to
that question,' but it made me incredibly sad,
because I thought, 'Well, yeah, there is no way to know.
How can we possibly know?' Because I had no Paul, and
I wouldn't know where to go to find a Paul. So, I went home pretty sad,
but prepared to just put it on the shelf and just, 'it is what it is,'
kind of thing. Marcus: I was going to say
that when people get to that situation,
sometimes they get nervous about picking up the Bible anymore, because,
'What's it going to say? How am I going
to understand it? Is it going to take me off
in this direction, just because I got this first
and I'm misunderstanding?' Melissa: That's right. Well, all I knew for certain,
and once again, my faith in God never wavered,
I believe that's a true grace. Even with all this going on,
I never doubted, never doubted. But what I did doubt was my
ability to discern the truth. I thought, 'Who am I? Me, I'm a housewife
in east Texas. Who am I to tell my pastor
from my Lutheran church, who went to seminary,
knows the Greek and the Hebrew, 'Sorry, Pastor, but you've
misunderstood. I understand it
correctly,'' but, I mean, I didn't have
any authority to say that. And so, I felt very lost, I'll be honest,
I felt very lost. I felt pretty defeated,
and I didn't know what to do, but I didn't know where to go,
but I knew what to do. I knew to pray. And so, that,
I went to bed that night, and I was exhausted. The next morning, I woke
up and, I mean, literally, my feet hit the floor and
my knees hit the ground. It was just instant,
and I just cried out to God, and I just told Him,
I said, "God, remove everything
I think I know. I don't want to know
what I know, what I know. I only want to know You."
And I said to Him, "I only want Your truth, God,
just Your truth." And then, I said
the dangerous prayer, Marcus. I said, "Even if, God, even if it's that
Pentecostal church, I'll go." And it was total surrender, because that was my greatest
fear at that time, that that would be the truth, but I surrendered
everything to Him. He was, He truly became
my Lord in that moment. Marcus: About to say,
that was lordship. Melissa: That
was lordship. And I said, "Even if God,
I will quit cutting my hair, I'll never wear blue jeans
again, I will go, Lord. I just want Your truth. Thank you, Jesus. Amen." Got up from that
prayer, went about my day, and I'm here to tell you,
God wasted no time. [Marcus laughs] No time at all. That very night, kids were
out doing what they do. I don't know, Scott was mowing,
and I was in the house trying to find something
to watch on TV. I'm flipping around the
stations, and I end up on this channel that I had
never been on before, and they were having
a Bible Study. It was obvious they were
having a Bible Study, and I thought,
'Oh, this is good.' And then, across the bottom of
the screen, it said,
"The Way To Follow Jesus'. And I said, "Oh, okay,
I'm listening, God, I'm listening to whatever," because that was my 'How do I follow you, Lord?
Just show me.' So, 'The Way To Follow Jesus'
grabbed me. So, I get my Bible, they're
studying the book of Mark, I'm like, 'This is great,'
and I'm just going along, and then,
they take a station break, and this beautiful nun
pops up on the screen, and she's talking about
the Rosary, and I went, "What?" And I realized it was a
Catholic station, and my first thought was, 'Why do Catholics
need a station? Why do they?
They have a TV station?' And then, I thought, 'I didn't even think they read
the Bible.' Now, where that came from,
I'm not really sure, because there was no
Catholic presence really in my life at all. At that time,
the only Catholics I knew were my step-dad
at the time and, but he hadn't been to Mass
in 20 years, didn't practice his faith
at all, so I knew nothing about that. And then, Scott's step-mom
was Catholic, but she also had not been to
Mass in over 20 years. So, I'm going to just tell
a little side story about this real quick. When I started my journey
into the Church, my mom's step-dad,
his name is Ron, he was very interested in what
was happening with me, and he said one day
when I was visiting, they lived in another state, he said, "Are you going
to church Sunday?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm
going to go to Mass." And he said,
"Can I come with you?" And I said, "Of course."
So, he came with me, and I encouraged him to talk
to the priest, and he was reconciled to the
Church before he died. And so, it was just
such a moment of grace. That was a beautiful
moment of grace. So, anyway, so that was
the only Catholic presence I had in my life,
so the Catholic Church was nowhere on my
radar at all. So, I watched the Bible
study, turned it off, didn't think another
thing about it. And then, a couple of
weeks later, woke up in the middle of the
night about 12:30, could not sleep, got up,
went into the living room, started watching TV. And thought, 'I wonder what
those Catholics are doing?' So, I found the station again,
and when I turned it on, there was a man and a woman
sitting on this side of a table, and a very tall man sitting on
the other side of the table, and the woman was speaking,
and she said, "I just really need to know how
to raise my daughters to be holy women of God. Did that really mean, 'Don't cut your hair
and only wear dresses'?" And I thought, 'What?' I turned it up because
I thought, 'Oh, they're Pentecostal. What is this?' Well, they weren't Pentecostal,
they were Mennonites, former Mennonites
who had become Catholic, and the program was
"The Journey Home". That's why I said,
This is so full circle. And I thought, 'What?
They became Catholic?' Well, I had to know the
rest of their story, so I start watching the guide,
finding this show again, and it wasn't their story,
but the first full episode I watched was a Baptist minister
who had become Catholic. And I thought, 'Really?' God has not settled with me. He's not settled with me,
so I listened, and then, I was hooked. I had to know,
'How does this happen? And why does this happen?' And I watched
several episodes. And the thing we talked
about it earlier, the strand that went through
was these divisions. People coming aware, it's
like you all of a sudden become aware of
these differences. We go along,
and we think,'Oh, we just worship
a little different. We disagree a little on
this, a little on that.' No, it runs so much deeper.
The differences are huge. And so, so many of your guests
had that moment of realization, and that was kind of
the catalyst. And so, what that said to me
was, 'Okay, they have the same dilemma, so to speak,
I do, and now they're Catholic. Is that what you're
calling me to, God?' Well, that was terrifying, because I knew nothing
about Catholicism. Marcus: Our guest
is Melissa Slagle. You had rather become a
United Pentecostal than a Catholic probably
at that time? Melissa: Yeah, yeah, I
think that would have been a much easier transition to be
quite honest, quite honest. I come from a very large,
very faithful Baptist family. We have ministers, deacons,
and no one had ever spoken against the Church in
any negative way, the Catholic Church, but I wasn't quite sure how everybody was going
to take that and.. Marcus: 'But being a Christian
is about reading the Bible, and those Catholics don't read
the Bible,' folks said. Melissa: And I even
thought that. Marcus: Yep. Melissa: I even thought that.
So, yeah, well, and my husband, Scott,
he was great. He never interfered. He, in fact,
encouraged it. But he did tell me,
"I'll never be Catholic." Five years later, he came home
to the Church. So, what happened? So, I kept hearing this
same name in your stories, people would bring up
this name, Scott Hahn. And I thought, 'Okay,
I think I need to read some of his books,' so I did. I then bought a Catechism,
started reading the Catechism, and then, I joined RCIA. Okay, so the first person
I met in RCIA was this beautiful bubbly woman,
she comes running up to me, her name was Brenda,
and she says, "My name is Brenda.
Please come sit by me. I want to hear all
about your story. We got about 10 minutes,"
and I'm like, "Okay." So, I go sit next to her,
and she said, "Why are you here?" So, I briefly kind of tell
her what happened with Casey in the Pentecostal
church, and I said, "She joined this
Pentecostal church. You won't know anything
about it there." And I just barely described it,
and she went, "Oh, the UPC." And I went, "Yeah."
And she said, "Oh, I was raised
United Pentecostal. My daddy's a UPC preacher." And I said,
"And you're Catholic now?" And she said,
"Oh, yes." And I thought,
'God, you really have a good
sense of humor. I mean, really, really?' I mean, the very first person
I met was a former UPC, so I knew I was where
God wanted me to be. I actually went, Marcus, I went through
three sponsors. We laugh about it in RCIA now, because I do help teach
in RCIA. Would always say,
"I was a difficult student," but it wasn't that. God in His provision,
He gave me this beautiful woman and put me at ease,
let me know right away of right where I should be. Then, in the middle of
my journey, when you're getting down into the
nitty gritty of it, and you're talking about Mary
and all the things, He gave me this beautiful
cradle Catholic who was able to share
her love of Mary and her devotion to Mary
with me. And then, for the home stretch, He gave me a beautiful woman
by the name of Sandy, who had been through the
entire journey herself. She was a convert, and she was
my sponsor that day in 2006, when I came Home to
the Holy Catholic Church. And I get a little giddy
when I talk about it, because I have never
looked back, I have never regretted. It was the biggest
blessing of my life, biggest blessing
of my life. Marcus: Well, I'm thinking
that there might be a Lutheran, and a Baptist,
and a United Pentecostal, and a Presbyterian that
might be watching, and they say, "Well, how did
that solve your problem?" Melissa: How did it
solve my problem? Absolutely, good question. So, the way it solved
my problem was this. What I came to understand
in my studies; and this was
a three-year process. This did not
happen overnight. I came to understand that the
reason we're all divided, the reason we're all coming to
these different conclusions is we were missing pieces
of the puzzle. The pieces of the puzzle
we were missing were sacred tradition,
the context of sacred Scripture, and the teaching authority of
the Church. We were missing a Paul.
We were missing that person. Paul didn't come in and say, none of the New Testament
writers ever came in and said, 'Well, you read it and
see what you think. You read it and
see what you think. And if you all disagree, just
build two different churches.' No, they,
no, they taught with authority. We were missing authority. And I asked that question
of everywhere, and the Catholic Church is
the only one that ever actually gave me an answer
to the question, so. Marcus: Yeah, in Paul's
letter to Timothy, he says, "the pillar and
bulwark of the truth…" Marcus/Melissa:
"…is the Church." Marcus: Okay.
Melissa: That's right. Marcus: So, remember
that statement. Then, about 200 years later,
St Irenaeus in his book, 'Against Heresies',
has that phrase a little slightly different,
"The pillar and bulwark of the Church is the truth." Now, what's the difference? Well, one of the differences is
it's the Church's call to preserve that truth,
and protect it and pass it on, make sure; so, that's why if you just
have this, that's a part of it. Melissa: Absolutely,
absolutely. Marcus: But it isn't
the full package. Melissa: No, it's not. And just as Peter says,
"If we aren't taught correctly, we can twist this to
our own destruction." And I know I had done that,
so, unwittingly. Marcus: Yeah, and the other
thing is that the one person that you talked to said, 'Well,
we'll never get it right. You, we get a little bit of,
say, peace in the end, God will sort it out,'
right, you said. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Marcus: But we're talking
about one of the most important parts
of our faith. Melissa: That's right. Marcus: The issue
of salvation. Melissa: That's right. That's right, absolutely. In verses, like when Jesus
would say to the Apostles, "Those who hear you, hear Me, those who reject you,
reject Me," Well, they had to have been able
to teach authoritatively or they wouldn't be
hearing Jesus, they would just be hearing
the musings of a person who had listened to Jesus. So, there had to be this
certainty, this authority. Without it, we have chaos,
and I couldn't accept that. Marcus: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Church recognizes that
our separate brethren have, have, God works in their lives,
and there's parts of the Truth, and through baptism,
there are parts, so we, the Church affirms all that. Melissa: Absolutely,
absolutely. Marcus: But the danger is that,
could they have, in the parts that aren't
exactly the same, could they have bought into
some ideas that actually undercut the fullness? Melissa: My husband actually
asked me, at one point on the journey, "Is this a matter of salvation
for you?" And I was, very quickly answered
him, "No, it's really not. At this point, it's a
matter of obedience. It's a matter of knowing
the truth, and truth matters." When you're talking about God,
there is no relativism, there is absolute truth. And so, for Him to truly be
Lord of my life, I had to know what it was He
desired of me, and then,
be obedient to it. Marcus: And I was thinking
also, in your case, it wasn't just about you, but
you had a daughter that might.. Melissa: That's right. Marcus: .. be
following you? Melissa: And if I have
a second to follow up? Marcus: Of course, yeah. Melissa: So, my daughter
and her husband, they have one son, Jackson, and Jackson has been baptized,
and confirmed and received his
First Holy Communion, and my daughter and her husband
are on their way into the Church,
into full communion, but they knew enough when he was
born, they wanted him baptized. They were still discerning
some things, but they wanted him baptized. So. Marcus: And then, you, and
then, you dragged Scott kicking and screaming.. Melissa: Scott, no, I was
very patient and quiet, no. [Marcus laughs] I had to learn to be very
patient and quiet, but he did attend Mass with me
faithfully all along, all throughout,
and then, he did make the decision
to come home in 2011. And then, I also have a
granddaughter, Grace, my son's daughter,
her mom is Catholic, my daughter-in-law, Mandy,
and so, both of my grandchildren
are Catholic. Marcus: All right.
Praise God. We have an email. JoEllen from Little Rock
writes: Melissa: Well, I totally
understand, but here's the beauty of it. I know that I was brought
into the Catholic faith on my grandparents' prayers. They prayed for
my holiness. They prayed for me to make
God the Lord of my life. So, those, I don't
discount anything that the Baptist faith
gave me. The Baptist faith taught me to
love Jesus, taught me the Bible. I mean, you don't have
to let anything go. You just come into a fuller
understanding of things, and you go much deeper. That's been my experience. So, I don't feel like
there's any, for me anyway, there's not been
any rejection necessarily of anything that I was gifted
with in the Baptist faith, and I would say most of
my relatives, I mean, even the ones that in
the beginning struggled, they recognize me as a
Christian, of course, and they've
encouraged me. They've all been praying
for me on this journey that I'm here today. And so, it doesn't have to
be a rift, and just be patient
and do a lot of praying, do a lot of praying
for unity in the family. Marcus: We recognize the
faith of our separated brothers and sisters who
came through the Church. They may not realize that. And it's not a matter of
us saying, 'Your faith came from us,' it's not, it's just a matter
of historical truth. This Bible is here because of
bishops in the fourth century that got together
and decided which books are going to be
in this canon and these aren't,
but these are. That was the
Church doing that. Melissa: Yeah, and that
was something I never even thought
about until, I never asked,
"Where did we get the Bible?" until I started studying
and studying Catholicism. Marcus: All right.
We have another email. Victor from Chicago. Melissa: Oh,
I've been there. [laughter]
I've been there. It's not a matter of going
through hoops, first of all, it really isn't,
it really isn't. All you're doing is you're, the
Church is discerning was there a marriage there
to begin with, because if there was a marriage
there to begin with, marriage is permanent, and we
have to take that seriously. So, the Church does
not declare or cause a marriage
to become null. They just declare by the
evidence that there really was never a sacramental
marriage to begin with. Once I understood it properly, I wanted to go through the
process. I wanted, because I knew
in my heart of hearts that Scott was my
first husband. And so, I actually wanted to
go through that process, and it didn't take anything away
from my children's dad, Steve and Casey's dad, but we were young and Scott was the first marriage that
I actually had. Marcus: All right. You mentioned in an earlier part
of the story about when you were in the process of
trying to figure out how to rescue your daughter, and
you were going to, to do that, you were going to talk to this
lady, you were going to do that. And to do that, you said
you opened this book, and you devoured
the New Testament, and in the process of devouring
the New Testament in an unexpected way,
you discovered Jesus. Do you recommend that? Melissa: Yes. [laughs] Marcus: In other
words, devouring. Melissa: Absolutely,
absolutely. You have to go into it,
and go into it again, and when we start our RCIA
class every year, I give one piece of advice,
and that is pray, and then, pray some more,
and then, pray some more, and get in that Bible. [laughs]
So, yeah, absolutely. Marcus: Yeah, I mean, I think about recommending the
Scriptures, of course, and reading it cover to cover, but a lot of people that's too
much or too much, and what's neat is you can buy,
sometimes, you can buy a New Testament
with a Psalter… Melissa: Yes. Marcus: …together, so
you've got the Psalms and you've got the entire
New Testament, and you can read that, and that'd be great to read
the whole thing, but that you've got that. Melissa: Yep. Marcus: I think Pope Francis
said, 'You can stick that in your
pocket and take it with you everywhere you go…' Melissa: That's right. Marcus: …because all of
our last popes, Francis, Benedict,
John XXIII especially, all of them strongly said. In fact, even Pope Benedict
says, "Catholics need to read the Bible more often so they can discover Jesus as Our Lord
and Savior." Pope Benedict says that. Melissa: Yes. Marcus: So, it's just
a Protestant statement. Melissa: That's right. Marcus: Savior and Lord. Melissa: That's right,
that's right, that's right, and you will discover Him in
the New Testament. Well, Old Testament, too,
but yeah, for me, it was the New
Testament, of course, yeah. Marcus: All right. And RCIA, is that just for
people on the journey or is that for
Catholics, too? Melissa: That's
for Catholics, too. That's for who anybody,
anybody is welcome, anybody is welcome, and we have quite a few
Catholics in our RCIA program right now,
and they just, yeah, they're such a blessing to us,
and I think it just deepens their faith,
and we say it every year, I've been helping in RCIA for
about eight years, and me and the team,
we say it every year. We learn something
new every year. We have a deacon,
a cradle Catholic has taught our RCIA
for over 30 years, and he says he learned something
every year in RCIA, so yeah. Come one, come all! Marcus: Thank you so
much for this interview… Melissa: Thank you so much. Marcus: …for being
on The Journey Home. Melissa: This was
an absolute joy. Marcus: …and sharing your
journey and all that you continue to do in RCIA,
thank you very much for that. Melissa: It was such
an honor to be here. Marcus: Thank you, and
thank you for joining us on this episode of
'The Journey Home'. Again, I want to encourage
you to go to CHNetwork.org, where you can read,
"Where Is My Paul?" but you can also find out
other information about the work that we do. God bless you and look forward
to seeing you again next week. [music]
