Journey Home - 2018-09-10 - Charlotte And Gary Wiley

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program EWTN allows me to have this opportunity to sit with you and listen to stories of conversion as the holy spirit awakens the hearts minds of men and women who love Jesus Christ and then sometimes found them drawn farther to a church and often they never anticipated or wanted but then they recognized why we call it the journey home we recognize it's home and we're glad to be home so our guests tonight are Charlotte and Gary Wiley Charlotte's a revert and Gary's a former Wesleyan pastor welcome thank you thank you so much for Marcus it's good to have you on journey home it's been a while since we did connect a number of years ago the coming home network every year has a couple of retreats for men and women on the journey to the church or convert to the church want to get together for a weekend or a couple days and you join us up in the beautiful retreat center but a Biddeford Maine that's right let me stop because we've got two stories all right who's going first I'm gonna start okay and it's I just as I started I just I'm so thankful for God's grace in my life and I think my story and probably our story together would be characterized by three words belonging unity and holiness and I have to go back three generations because yes it was a Wesleyan pastor but even before that my parents and my grandparents were part of a church that probably no one's ever heard of the pilgrim hole in his church oh okay great my grandparents were missionaries to Hong Kong where my mother was born my parents are missionaries discern amble where I grew up and and then I found myself and at the age of six my father was my pastor and it was a Sunday evening in a little Church in western Pennsylvania and at the end of the message there was an altar call which was very typical in the pub Wellness Church and I went forward as a six-year-old to pray to receive jeez as my savior and I could only say Marcus that there has always been that hunger and my desire to know Jesus and to live now it doesn't mean I always did but I can't remember any time of outward rebellion where I didn't want this and I thank my my grandparents and my parents who loved me and prayed for me and taught me the way of God no in that particular tradition when a young person like that comes forward and in responds to the altar call then accept Jesus as Lord and Savior how did that tradition understand that from then on and were they a once saved always saved you came forward or now this is beginning of yours at the beginning and in fact the the term appalling search which then became later to emerge of the Western Church which I'll mention in a moment cuz that's an important part of my story believed in two distinct works of grace salvation and sanctification and so the the idea was that most people you would heard their testimonies in that in that movement I was saved in this date I was sanctified on this day then met entire sanctification where I fully surrendered my life to to Jesus at that point once you boys say no no you never there there's no height of grace which would you could not fall so I is important yet it just divides non Catholic Christianity between these huge different understandings of a very good so that I had and I would probably say I lived with eternal insecurity because I was constantly aware that I could lose my salvation and that was something that was costly in my mind so I remember as a as a child you know thinking about what would happen if you know if I died and I wasn't it didn't have my sins forgiven I will say one thing I mentioned unity and so in 1968 there was a merger between the Patronus church and the Wesleyan Methodist Church and it became the Wesleyan Church and so that church is now celebrating this operating it's 50 years that goes way back I know 50 years of a denomination but that's the the Wesleyan Church and so separate from United Methodist right that was Methos came out of the united methodist way back in 1844 of the issue slavery so no no slaves no bishops it was and the Weston method was actually the first American denomination have doctrine of faith for entire sanctification so there and also it were deigned the first woman interestingly enough so those that's a little bit of the immediately the pebble has came out of the Methodist Church many of it but were people who were seeking a deeper walk a deeper life and trying to get back to the teachings of John Wesley so that was interesting because Wesley in itself was a break away from that this exact look in church groups keep breaking away and to recover that which I'd love yeah so in that merger of 1968 these were tutored like-minded churches coming together and the Brooklyn Hornsey had been an amalgamation many little small holiness churches that had come together and the theme of the merging conference was one that the world might believe and I remember as a twelve-year-old thinking my denomination is part of this amazing desire of Jesus that maybe once with the world would believe and I thought was a pretty big deal yeah and it was interesting at that age I had that planet in my heart so that was that was the beginning of that hunger I think for unity and then in the teen years I came back to us in 1968 the US was a different places 68 than it was in 63 when we let water should oh my goodness it was a big deal so I found that in junior high and adolescents and all that goes with that I just found myself how in the world do I even live this and and there was a lack I guess we could save even discipleship but you know just you were always Church and that was so important and again my parents were loving and letting at the age of 17 I was blessed with a pastor who loved me who nurtured me who discipled me and said have you ever been baptized and I said no and so at the age of 17 I was baptized when did they you normally baptized and pilgrim all I don't know that's a good question because I had been by this time I guess you know no one ever approached me the idea well and he did he said we need to get you baptized and so I was baptized and I actually saw a distinct change in my life now I did not know it I'm going to jump ahead a little bit when I came into the cafe church I needed my certificate baptism and I thought do I have that and I found it and I was baptized on January 6 1974 epiphany which we celebrated the baptism or oh so that was a very significant thing as I look back on it but it was also very significant in my life soon after that I sensed a call to serve overseas and as a missionary something I declared I would never do right assumed a word because you know that was the family heritage your Williams and Fred I'll do something else I was going to be announcer for the Cincinnati Reds that was but uh anyway God had a purpose and so College continued to try to follow that call it was what does that even mean and given all this time I really had no you know the idea of the Catholic Church was not even in my radar screen that's not something we talked about we didn't have negative or positive and I never heard it I had a friend though who had known in high school and he was Catholic and we got to know each other because we were going to the same College my hometown and we decided to have lunch one day and a little cafe and I saw the four leaders of the Wesleyan Church setting it at one table and I said to my friend Joe I said Joe you got a Pope don't you in Rome and he said yeah I said I pointed at the table where the four men were saying is you guys got four popes so it was kind of an interesting time but I really didn't think too much about the Catholic Church until one day I met a young lady named Charlotte lawn and that our story kind of we have a booth yeah they begin to understand a little bit more about that just before she shares that I went to a Christmas Eve Mass with her parents and her I didn't know what I was getting into but my father-in-law at that time it just was recently married he said don't you dare take communion that'll be a scandal in this town if you do because I was not a Catholic for sex so they should tell her about and meanwhile I'm like I'm not Catholic either so don't tell my husband I'm not really but I like the fact my dad did that so I yeah I grew up in a in a Catholic family nine children I remember as a kid wanting to be a nun when I grew up my favorite teacher was I'm a second grade teacher and I wanted to be just like her one day and also another thing I remember about being Catholic before I left as a kid I think it was must have been maybe third grade thinking I had the host on the roof of my mouth and I was thinking I I'm afraid I'm gonna hurt Jesus if I try to scrape him off the roof of my mouth I love Jesus so much as a child I remember that clearly so as I did or II continues in that I think when I was around 12 or 13 maybe maybe sooner my parents were confused mannequin two was happening everything was going wrong so we kind of bowed out for a while I think because I don't remember going anymore after that for a while so then I was 16 so changing so fast right afterwards I could I was just really imagine the confusion and you know I think I was too much of an airhead to want to concentrate or focus on what's the church was saying when I'd rather just be outside the backyard playing kickball is what I did but when I was 16 years old it was high school years you know they're so old difficult I remember being lonely and sad and frustrated and confused and not doing well in school and needing something I wanted all my friends were doing well I met a gal named Melanie Melanie Lind who had this look and I wondered what is it what is it about you so I said so what is something you have that I am oh I don't I don't feel like you look like you feel she's supply of this best friend I saw that's cool huh it's a guy oh ok so in his name is Jesus and I was like oh dear now how do I say I have no idea what you meant but it was attractive to me to see that this face on this gal has something that Jesus had so two weeks later I went to a concert with her ex-boyfriend and there was an altar call that I didn't know it was just a concert I didn't know it's a Christian concert and I remember clearly needing to go forward and I was like the most shy child that I ever knew you know I would never raise my hand in school for a question or to answer questions very very shy and to be told if you want this Jesus to be a train in your life come forward I couldn't but I did I don't know how I got there I seriously don't remember actually getting up out of my seat and doing it because God took over so that was and I look back on that and I think I had I had been baptized as a baby of a Catholic Church and God just kept me going towards him even though our family was kind of backing off and I didn't know what I wanted or I didn't know any anything about Christianity really but that day was the day I received Jesus into my heart I had a relationship with a yearned for there's a deep depth and relationship and with Jesus and that was my beginning even though really I didn't know what I was doing so one thing in the to another and I became a part of a Bible study and I think before we knew it I was ready for college and went to a college that wanted to pre-nursing and let's say pre-nursing and Bible after going to a school in New York for just a short time I went overseas to Honduras through the college in Indiana actually and they had a study where you could study overseas was required or studied at home about that's that country so I went when I'm Duras and I remember feeding the people on one day we decided to fast from our lunch and I was feeding some beggars on this big Cathedral the steps of the Catholic Church there and I was robbed I had my personal on my back here and I was being robbed and after that that was when I really decided God wanted to me to be a missionary and a nurse because I was trying to feed people that were you know they're sick and they're crippled and so from what that moment on I decided to attend a school that was mission and Bible minded and nursing I went to a pre had pre nursing at one school transferred meet them to where Gary was going to school and that's how I met Gary through a missions organization right so we was one of Charlotte and Gary Willy are our guests today yeah just that we met each other at Indian when it's Western University at that time it's called Marion College which was in the city of Marion Indiana and you know we both were it wasn't love at first sight but it was we were drawn together by our common sense to overseas mission service and eventually within ten months we were married and beginning doesn't say okay god what next and the interesting thing about this is I mentioned earlier this idea of holiness there was this idea well if God if God has called me then then I must be somewhat he loves you will use and I had this strong desire to truly know that that that he was at work in me I remember that even as a teenager I was the one you talked about earlier once say it always had no I was the frequent flyer to the altar every time it was open I was there to confess my sins that was I was my version of confession I guess and and I remember one time saying to the pastor the before the one who actually baptized me and grounded me more in the faith I said I need to be saved because I would go to school then you know the next day and said and I lost it all so I said what I want to be saved and sanctified tonight you know two for one he said you can't do that you'll it has to be two steps I'm doomed you know I am doomed and I think that that despair that I felt in that moment was something that would revisit me off and oh and I think what what can I do you know who can save me from this this horrible situation Romans seven was kind of my theme chapter and it's a gift of God waiting in needs that I can't earn this I can't do this I can't do it on my own but Charla what a gift she was in my life and I met her and and I guess I learned more about the Catholic Church in the negative sense because she had you know that's where she found Jesus's in the process in search and we prepared ourselves when we with the seminary we what took a pastor in Michigan and then we sensed it was time to go overseas and where did we go Lima Peru of all places very Catholic country and you know we we look back on that and I've even had people who say what you becoming Catholic doesn't that invalidate everything you did in Peru and I say Marcos no it doesn't because there were people who didn't darken the door of a church there who there were people who needed to hear the message of Jesus and and we were privileged to share that with folks who truly came to know Christ and a significant way who possibly because of alienation may never have been open to hear it from a Catholic exactly you know I'm saying something like the Lord used you till these bring them to Christ know the trajectory exactly that's the beginning and it's interesting Charlotte Charlotte had some encounters with women and you you were kind of finding yourself conflicted because of of work here to save Catholics and yet go ahead yeah so it's was very interesting because we went with the idea of friendship evangelism that's pretty much what was called back then you know so wait we started with having eight like I think we had a big dinner for like eight different neighbors and from that we just hit it off with them you know God was in it he was helping us to know what it was to be it's a servant in the unfor Enfield's by well loving Jesus so we had this we started these eight couples so the eight women became a part of my cooking class it wasn't really a class on cooking but it was introducing American food to to Peru and so they came after two or three months I remember saying why don't we start at the Bible so we started studying about women in the Bible and that was kind of the thing that led us into it but there were two or three women in that group and Here I am to evangelize the world you know and I remember their names there's three or four of them I won't say them now but they he had this thing the spirit about them that was huh they'd seemed to know Jesus already and I couldn't figure that out because I was really anti-catholic I had nothing to do with the Catholic Church that's why I was going there to help these Catholics know Jesus and get them saved and born again and all that but these women had something about them that was unique and beautiful and I didn't even dare talk to them about the Lord because they already knew him but I was confused and I left it there and I don't think I even worried about them so I was targeted on the other women that really needed Jesus that they had a you know rough back on and stuff which is interesting and sad because you you had the common Lord so sad but but because your your understanding of why you were there was to convert them out of Catholicism that you you were enabled at that point to rejoice and what you share exactly so let me take that back to my mom I mean we'll talk about her in a few minutes but that is I am so thankful i'ma Catholic because that with these people in Peru trying to win them over for Christ when they already knew him thankfully at least the ones I could recognized you know but we didn't have that common sharing the joy the joy of sharing Christ and my mom my parents as soon as I came to Christ in the Protestant church at age 16 I spent the rest of my life I was so hook line and sinker in for Jesus and what he was doing in my life that I thought I've gotta get my parents there too I kept talking to them about Jesus when our daughter was 10 she wrote them a letter that she wanted to see them in heaven - and my mom wrote back something like well of course I'll be there and we're like come on can't you get your act together come on this is Christianity we're talking about you know a vast anti arrant a it was terrible but then I you know as we came into the church I'm so grateful that right away I could quickly confess my ignorance but at the same time thank you Lord for bringing me home you know so we spent 15 years in in Peru and it was a rich time raised our children there and then since that our time was ending there and all sudden we were finding ourselves in Manhattan New York City with the idea of planning a church there we planted a church in Lima now we were gonna try to plant a church in New York with the Wesleyan Church and you know sometimes Church plants can they can grow or sometimes there can be a miscarriage and we had a miscarriage it just didn't happen and but we didn't sense that we were supposed to leave New York of all things and so we worked Charlotte works she's a nurse and I worked in at Barnes and Noble of all places and we're just trying to figure out what week what we could do and I continue to remain an ordained pastor in the Western Church but eventually we were able to be on the son loan to a non-denominational church that was just starting and what a life-giving experience that was for us as well it was like we're being part of a New Testament kind of experience you know Worth brand new churches starting and it wasn't all on me at this time I was kind of able to be a part of what was going on and to watch people come to know Jesus and get excited and here we are in this metropolitan city and you're confronting all the issues you know that is reality that you find every day every day you know especially sure within the subways and meeting people on the streets of New York and it really was a beautiful experience a beautiful time interestingly enough though we kind of got out of our little bubble you know the very wonderful bubble but outside of it and we begin to meet people who are interested in in the liturgy and in contemplative prayer and things that we had never been exposed all part of this not all nor just nondenominational trying to get back to the roots of Christianity no yeah the name of the church originally was called origin so it was like it was that was a it was an interesting name but found out was also the name of a cosmetic company I got changed later but but but it but that was the idea of getting back to the the roots of Christianity and and joining God and what he was doing to renew the city and so we found life there we were kind of the older the gray beard so species doesn't a gray beard but I did and and still do and so we were kind of this older folks in this very youngish group of people what served with one Church in grew to 11 well parish is in in the boroughs of New York sometimes those non-denominational churches because they're combining people from so many different traditions can have what's described as a very wide theology but a very thin one because you know they want to avoid those do not doctrinal topics that will divide the congregation so often they're ecclesiology is very thin and maybe even areas deeper like Christology and other things can be very thin or even the issues that so separated the pilgrim holiness from other churches you know those two those two acts of grace wasn't even a part of that well that's a good point and I think there was a desire definitely to be very biblical to ground ourselves in the roots the you know the the Apostles Creed the Nicene Creed chapter to Acts chapter two but you're right there when you have people coming from everywhere and from all kinds of backgrounds you have to be and I found myself had to be very careful how I express myself you know as an Arminian Wesleyan Armenian and I was basically the token wasn't are many a group of mostly reformed people and so yeah you found yourself kind of watering down in the sense that the idea of sacraments yeah the meaning of baptism the Lord's Supper all those things are you know hesitant to see what is what we believe yeah and and I think I think that's always a challenge and especially now what do we how do we stand and I'll tell you that was perhaps one of the things I began to realize coming out of a denomination where everything was pretty much established and in a book of discipline and then being a part of something that was beautiful and free-flowing but then when a subject comes up like what do we do about this oh well maybe we'd better go back and study it I'm going on but hasn't that already been done you know and so that was something that was kind of growing in me as a difficulty so that that brings us to the year 2013 this is when the the years dirt when I call the year of the 3ds which is discouragement depression and death and I'm gonna hold that until after the break we probably time for a break every place so we know one thing I just cracked me up earlier I did get to say it but it cracked me up that you - what was the name of the college you went to in Indiana Indiana Wesleyan University was Marion college I'm wondering why they changed the name a lot of Catholics signing up for Marion college and get their college this Marisa oh not a nay take a pause and come back just a moment [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home I'm your host Marcus Grodi and our guests are Charlotte and Gary Wiley and so we're ready to discuss the multiple DS right exactly the year 2013 well we were a year into a new church plant I here I'm gonna do it again I guess again third time third time's a charm I guess I say but it's a 2013 where year is the church plant had been a great really good year wonderful people that we were working with just a they were like they were truly a family but as that new year that new year started I was just feeling overwhelmed discouraged the challenges of trying to plant a church that was growing that was making you know for like a better term making money to be self-sufficient and being a part of a team where I felt I was the older guy you know 20s and 30s some things that were all full of energy and ready to try any new thing this is gonna be one of those non-denominational that was part of that okay so I'm gonna be in one of those church plants so a year into it and and loved and respected and all those good things but I was just discouraged discouraged because I'm saying what am i doing I'm doing this again and I just don't feel like I'm giving the best I can or that I even know what to do almost you know and I would you go I go like Journal all the time and I was go back to those journals and you just see my prayers crying out to God Lord what do you what am I gonna do so that and then I also begin to deal with I've you know I said I was dealing some depression I'd had some depression several years before that when my mom passed away she was only 56 and they just kind of I was of the thought that God I I'm here in overseas serving you and the only thing I asked review is to you know watch over my family you let my mom die what's that about you know and I went into a depression we were in the midst of adopting of our son in Peru and that took three and a half years and all those things had now I'm my wife is seeing there's the sign again you're something something's out going well here so that that was part of the reality and they were just days it was just kind of hard to get out of bed you don't like to go through with this and then in October of 2013 Charlotte's mom was not in good health but had a heart attack and over just a few days time she was in Hospice and she passed away and now I'm dealing with that woman who I'd known for 36 years as long as I had done my mother you know and a significant person in my life and it was it was hard so those 3 DS I I say that you know God was beginning to open some doors for me not because I was discouraged or because I was depressed but or because of the death of my mother but he used those three things to begin to pull on my heart sure why don't you share a little bit about that time with your with your mom and well you know like I said earlier our daughter our girls our whole family were praying for my mom and dad become Christian you know so when she had the heart attack we went to see her right away and I remember going to her bedside and saying mom listen I desperately need you to know Jesus to be in heaven with me and again oh yeah I do and she and then I said something I said a second sentence something about I really want you to be in heaven and she said I will be and she was like we heard she died the next day she was weak she had just had a heart attack and here I'm thinking I have to get that last 40 and she's got to come to Jesus before he dies you know so anyway that happened but then the next day after the day after she died my dad had us sitting around the table and we were talking he looked at me in the eyes Gary was sitting there as well and he just looked at me and I was a fanatic as a Christian I mean as a brand new believer from 69 hook line and sinker love of Jesus loving him loving him so much and and everything that he asked me to do obedience I always do is I just was so excited to be a Christian and so I look he look my dad looked mean brightly out the eye and said Charlotte your mom dumped Jesus just like you do just like that and it frightened me it's truly totally off guards I thought all these years I could have been her friend all I was wanting to be as get her to heaven you know but we we could have had great conversations you know but now I can but uh so you took that as a for him well I mind father-in-law at that time was in his early 90s and has always been a very eloquent speaking role but he was you know in the kind of in stages of Parkinson's and it was mustered all of his courage and energy to speak to us frankly not just to us but also to her some of her settlings and I said I owe it to my in-laws to understand their faith now I had never been quite as you know antagonistic perhaps as Charlotte had about Catholicism I just I just thought you know what there probably are Christian Catholics but it's not because the church is in spite of it and I remember saying in Peru you know um you make such a big deal of good friday but where's Easter you know it's all good it's Friday no easier and and everything I knew about the Catholic Church is what I dread not by Catholics by people talking about the Catholic Church and I can remember the Chick tracts you know those things are those those are all part of that 70s culture but I said I definitely need to know understand well we went to the funeral which was a week later it was a funeral mass and I was convinced that the priest was going to talk her into heaven yeah otherwise I was blown away by the clear presentation of the gospel about what my mother-in-law's had placed her faith on I go this isn't what I was expecting this isn't know what something's wrong here and so I decided I do truly I owe it to them to understand what their but no mind in my mind at that point no I'm not gonna become ever become Catholic but I have to understand what what their what their faith was about so I began to and I was thinking that his presentation of the gospel would have been more parallel to your Wesleyan understanding it's true there was a connection there [Laughter] it was and so I said I've got it started but I thought I don't I don't know anybody who's ever done this you know you starting to investigate it and I wouldn't even journal those early days afraid somebody pick up my journal and read what I was reading and think what am i but I soon told Charlotte I said I I'm starting to read and she's oh that's good it's good and I would pick up a book and what I started blah you know Google thank God for Google I I found a book that actually an author that I had read a book of called the Bible made impossible but Christian Smith and he he just talks about the you know the danger of bibble ISM you know when you didn't make the the Bible is everything and then if the Bible is everything why did so many people who interpret in so many different ways which is true and then I realized he'd written another book and it was called 9595 difficult steps to go from being a committee avenger to a good evening chuckle to a committed Christian as Catholic I go that's an intriguing title and then I found that he had become Catholics in the Presbyterian Academy so I started reading it I read it I thought oh my goodness I read it to her and so my mother-in-law passed away at the end of October of 2013 by the end of December of 2013 I'm saying god what am I going to do two months later I'd say I know too much I don't know what to do now cuz this affects everything I'm a pastor that's my livelihood what do I do you know you know I'm in my late 50s it's not like I can just you know maybe we'll get to this lady right I wanted right now all the things that you would have encountered in those couple months reading that book and others was there one particular issue that was the wool you know they're really open your eyes that that open did the Catholic Church in a way that I never thought about it before funny thing about was it's the things that are in the Bible versus I never saw before and I was sure that I would go I said that's not it pipeline no it's not in the Bible and I go and it's in the Bible you know the which is the pillar and the bulwark of the faith of a world put that in there and then you know reading John six and reading Matthew 16 and going I I know I'm sure I preached on this but it wasn't that I didn't see that before so yeah I know that it was actually it ended up being the Bible that that spoke to me so powerfully Wow of course I you know who hasn't read Rome sweet home I read that we read that to each other I read her her she drives I read when we travel so that works out nicely and and then I started googling and I found something called the coming home network and I read that they're you know they're there to help people who are in this journey and and I reached out and got a nice email back from Jim Anderson and we've been in contact that way so yeah it was honestly it was one and the the kind of the crisis moment for me it was at the end of December 2013 I've been praying God I need in my inner my mind is this what I'm supposed to do I'm pastoring a church I have family you know those kinds of things and I went down I prayed and 20 minutes later I went down to check my mail and there was a little package in the mail I won't run to all the details but in that package verse I was expecting it was one of those books I had ordered called catechism for adults but there was a Christmas wrap package and the other part of it and a little note saying this is a gift for you and I thought I don't even I've never seen this happen for us I opened it and the book inside was a pillar of truth that the Catholic Church in you and I just got all warm all so it was just one of those little steps I go okay keep going keep going well that was didn't that was December of 2013 I'm showing with Charlotte she's single that's good we're watching the journey home hearing some stories that's good we and I'll let her tell her story here in a minute but we went down we decided take a weekend away and Charlotte all the arrangements and we found ourselves in Bethesda in a nice hotel discount and we said what we do around here well what's closed there is the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception and so I'm on the way down we're reading Scott Hans book hail holy queen and sure I've I'm reading something Charlotte looks at me and she goes Mary is not my mother and I said but she wants to be and she's going is this man I married are you anyway so you know I mentioned earlier about belonging there's a there's a sociological phenomenon known as the third culture kid I didn't know about that until I was an adult I realize you're a third culture kid you don't belong anywhere and I grew up in the Midwest after coming back from in South America and I just never felt like I belong and we went to Costa Rica for language school and I was 30 and even though I didn't know the language or that culture there I thought I was going back home to in a sense but that sense of belonging I was finding myself being drawn to home and it was the church and I couldn't explain that anyone you know how do you explain that to someone who doesn't isn't living your life you know but it felt like I was finding a place to belong now what what we gonna do with my wife so meanwhile the whole time he's watching the journey home and it really he bought me two books that I just you know nicely put on my bedside stand and kept them there so I didn't look at any I hardly looked at the journey home and when we did I was working on someone Bryant projects at the same time so I really wasn't into understanding Gary's deep desire even though I'd loved it and it was real it was authentic and it was filling his little heart that needed that belonging and that special something from God which I was so glad for but there was no way I mean I was not even interested so I just kind of pampered it and all that yeah so I think eventually so that was from December when he in December he said at 3rd 2013 he was pretty much wanting to be Catholic and I'm like okay that's good go ahead so the year several things happened you know in and maybe we had a meeting with our kids are two of our kids to talk about dads desire to become Catholic and here I'm you know sitting on this side of the there side not supporting him at all not even I mean how to even look at it I mean I just felt so badly because I love this man but it wasn't my thing either so you know that was over and they just said they were very upset and it was very hard for all of us and then a little bit later maybe just two or three weeks later I feel like it was just about I said you know what honey you be Catholic I'll be pressed I'm good I found Jesus in the Catholic Church I mean in the Protestant church and I am good Jesus and I were good I really believed it I really stood firm and I knew that I well he would be Catholic and I'd be possibly fine because we've been very 30-some years and it's all good so you know so so that was like in mayor it must have been mayor Jun right then so in probably towards the fall you know Gary's really getting serious he was totally serious he was already starting to tell his co pastors and the leadership in the church and making it a clear thing that he was going to step down eventually from the pastor it and he told me telling him Catholic or just saying those word leadership not not in Michael well corrugation at that point but those who I just reported to I said this is what's in my heart I want you to know where I am they were saying we went out Orthodox went out Anglican I said no yes so I tried to support him but I realized that we have always every decision we've ever made and anything has always been not only beautifully United but usually God has spoken to a separately and then we come together us like the same thing so it's like I should have been there already and I wasn't only because of my history and confining the relationship in Christ as a 16 year old hook line and sinker four years later I had the same defecation moment I know the date on that one too you know I was like so it was just a beautiful beautiful time that I just thought like what more do I need and of course I didn't read and I wasn't really watching the show I wasn't really understanding very much about what the beauty and the truth of the Catholic Church so I started feeling a little bit guilty yet not ready so that's like the fall come December January that year which is not 2015 going into 2015 I was like oh Lord I am so sorry I have always obeyed you I know I have to become Catholic I know I have to do this I don't want to but you said obey me and I will but I can't I don't know I was in that I just didn't know what to do with myself I didn't didn't have the head knowledge didn't have that heart left my husband and I loved what God was doing to him he was like this brand-new man I mean he was I was so it was so cool to watch him be kinder when I you know if I did something to annoy him he didn't bring it up anymore or whatever you know it was just beautiful to see his relationship with the Lord so deep already and so must have been January that year I said lord I got a I got a I came to the same or I was negative my heart was I think it might not have showed as badly as I felt it inside I was disobeying my Lord by saying no and that really bothered me so by February we're here watching that come out back to Brighton coming home I finally decide you know if I got a probably the fall I started watching and really watching and enjoying every one every single one that was too futile to the stories so one person was on the show in I think it was probably February and he had an example of how God had changed his life he was in Nazarene which is close to Wesleyan and I when the show was over he had this little I call it a mini miracle miracle and I said when it was over I walked to walk into the bedroom I said you know honey I just need that I just don't have the head knowledge I don't have the heart I don't care I want to but I can't I don't know what to do I need a sign just like he had I meant it but then again I thought I don't know what say I mean before you know I think it was about three weeks later now there's a part that you need to interject in a minute here well go ahead and well I had been praying I actually the year before this I hadn't trained you know I found myself doing Catholic things without being a Catholic because I felt so it was giving me life and I think before we were talking earlier about how oftentimes we we think of what's this going to do for my career I just want something for my soul I felt like I needed I needed conversion and I was finding great comfort in the community the Saints and then the rosary these are things that you know Mary she was my mother you don't know things that were like I say so myself this is me you know what's going on yeah and IRA share this with her and she I just don't get it but anyway I had been free to my patron st. Francis DeSales and then I was praying a novena to st. Therese rise of the Sioux and then and you hadn't come into the church you know and he was silent all this plain silent he knew finally he knew better than to say anything because I was so anti so three weeks after deciding I needed a sign I woke up in the middle of the night and I'd heard this was something that a special sign that happens to Catholic you know to sell the scent of roses beyond beyond and I just knew that this was my answer it was so fresh and so real and was probably just seconds long but I wanted it's like please stay they say it's just miraculous a beautiful experience and I woke up knowing that this was my sign and I was in in the middle of a night I was in that's all I needed was that sign because I knew that when God speaks to my heart he means it and he wants me to mean it back and I did that night so the saddest part of that story is that that was March 1st 2015 Monday morning Sunday night morning Monday morning I took because of my obstinacy so regret I'm so confessed is that with it took me until their Saturday I did not tell Gary because I was like I can't believe you know every big trip now I'm gonna be Catholic and I can't talk Gary says just too much pride or whatever my reason I don't know what it was so in New York City there is a very special amount of event that happens every month called Catholic Catholic underground the Franciscan friars renewal have a have a holy hour at a church that they rent every single month and I'd been there the first time I went with Gary I fell asleep because you know I wasn't to this the second time we were in the balcony I couldn't see and all that you know I could I fell asleep the second time it was beautiful and I liked it but I wasn't I was there just like I had been for him it was scheduled this coming Saturday after this mode and this Monday morning experience and I remember one of the things that I was very obstinate about becoming Catholic was some of this worship music I just love praising the Lord with my hands on the head and the sky and where she came we're shipping him in the Protestant church with all the beautiful hymns or music there's one song I think it's complex the Lord my soul 10,000 reasons I remember thinking that was my favorite song well wouldn't you know and the Holy Hour that's all they played and I was in tears the entire time thinking Lord Jesus you have blessed me what did he mean a sign Who am I to get a sign from you even though I asked for one I am in I am so Catholic I can't wait so as soon as it was over of course Gary saw that I was blubbering the whole time he knew something was up I suppose we got in the car I said carry RCIA we gotta go I can't wait to be Catholic and that was it maybe but I'm still pastor of a church well that was it was a what a blessing that was oh but still we had to in a way to move forward and we finally made that that that step where we get an ounce to the church that we were leaving and then they trust God what do we do now and three days after my last paycheck I was at a new job called a health insurance and oh my goodness what what was this it's all new world but you know what Marcus I mentioned earlier the belonging I never saw some more belonging than I have coming into the Catholic Church and the unity the prayer to Jesus is in John 17:21 I realize it said well why don't you stay in the Evangel church and promote that and I said I have to be obedient to the prayer of Jesus I may not I may not bring a whole lot of people with me but I have to be where I'm supposed to be and then the holiness that just deep longing in my heart it's I realize it's it's a process it's a conversion a daily conversion and I've learned so much more about holiness than I ever thought was possible and the Commuter Saints oh my goodness I wake up every morning I and I almost I just told my reason I feel like singing that song thank God I'm a Catholic boy but no what a joy and and it's not about it's about what I needed Jesus knew you know you've been you've been trying so hard it doesn't mean you stop trying but I'm gonna you into a in the fullness of the faith I'm gonna give you an opportunity to experience what I truly have for you the Eucharist oh my goodness you know I never knew that that was even possible all those years trying to help people through communion with symbols no I'm curious and you're awakening on that night the whole week of it brewing within you and then of course the sign thereof that song you your readiness to come in did the seeds of your Catholicism sprout from the past or was it a clean slate you can learn it all over again yes and no mostly learning all over again I was so in love with Jesus and then a billion times more in love with him when when I found out really this is what I should be doing so our CIA was knew he had little things would come back up like my memory of having Jesus stuck at the roof of my mouth and you don't wanted to be a nun when I grew up but I don't ever remember I mean I love Jesus so much as a little girl I remember especially a second third grade but to receive Christ in the Eucharist the body blood soul and divinity of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that I've known for all these years to now be with me and be with us in this very moment I it's beyond I can't up daily Mass I cannot cannot cannot go to I just can't you know I just this is so much more real and prayer is so much deeper a duration 24 we have our where we go to church is a has a Perpetual Adoration I'm there every single day and I can't I can't not leave and likely to leave I'm like I don't leave you Lord you know what's cuz it's so beautiful to before to be before our Lord has especially having been Protestant or evangelical in the sense of knowing Jesus and loving him for so many years and and teaching about him and speaking for him and doing all the way did as missionaries to see that this is the Christ that I didn't know I rejected back in the day I tell you think confession and communion those are my two favorites because I loved to be able to go there did Mary become your mother she is my mother let me tell you real quickly if I have a minute I had all these friends in church talking about Our Lady and and I was like I ever get too close to this lady of this mother a better Gary told me what you'd love to be mine and my one friend who was actually my sponsor coming into the church she said ask her ask her that's Mary to be your mom I asked her to draw you closer so actually every day after communion I mean I did and I am and I'm very very much in love with our lady but every day I received the Lord I do the Masters alter a I adore you well I love you tea I thank you a for ask I always ask our Lord to draw me closer to him and to his mother and then see is that I mean that our is the resolution which could be anything but I am so in love with my mom I call my mom my hammer here and my mom's gave me a diamond my mother my mom was here I get to talk to her every day as well and our Lord yeah and you know what's interesting a couple things I'd like to say one is my mother who passed away in 56 at the age of 50 so excuse me I'm closer to her than I ever was you know I understand that that means Saints and and I just as you know as a person who depended on the password for my livelihood God has been so faithful I mentioned that job of the health insurance I did that for two years and then God opened the door for us to I'm working with American Bible Society now and they were looking for someone who spoke Spanish who had administered US Marines who had theological training and was Roman Catholic so I guess I've got the bill but what a privilege that is to to be involved in an organization that is promoting the Bible and and I get to be involved in some projects that some are Catholic some are not but we have a beautiful we love our parish and just I love being a lay person oh just I being Pope was too much above my pay grade when you look back on those ladies you know the people that you knew they were Catholic then like your mother that really did have faith in Christ but you weren't aware of it I look back on that is it is it our Catholicism sometimes keeps us contained so that someone outside of us doesn't know that we really do love Jesus is that our culture when handsome it's an interesting question I think that's probably a lot I've learned from a lot of Catholics that you kind of kept your faith to yourself and I think that's changing somewhat at least the Catholics that I'm around is they're very open about their faith and we that's I think one of the great joys we have in our parish just our people they love the Lord and they're speaking about it and they're involved in and I think we do I mean we need that more than any time at this then time we're living in to be very loving but also very firm about what we believe I'm just gonna say one thing that has been a true joy for me I was an assistant CCD second grade teacher this past year which is the Eucharist and the sacrament of reconciliation and now I'm going to be that teacher this year so I feel like catechism teaching promoting Christ in the Catholic Church in that way of how people can learn this case I can't wait I mean they know they receive Jesus this year and that's my goal for all of it well if you want to say that's the patrimony that you bring with you into the church is the recognition we did we can't take this for granted and we might say we look at those countries that you know you places that are Catholic France Catholic Italy Catholic Ireland Catholic Quebec Catholic Brazil Catholic but what's happened and sometimes it's a whole culture we could our faith and the culture can get intermixed to the point we take it for granted mm-hmm we can't do that let's see we got some Wesley uns watching this program what do you want to say to them should they make the same journey why should they make the same journey I once it one thing I would just ever say is that I don't feel like my coming becoming a Catholic was a rejection of my Wesleyan heritage it was a completion of it yeah and and I would I would say you know if you find yourself just struggling with trying to be that entrepreneurial pastor trying to take hold of the next best thing and you're frustrated go deep and when you go deep you'll find Jesus deeper but you also find just the church that he founded and it will change your life for everything in yeah I mean as you mentioned the beauty of the communion of the saints that veil is very thin it's a huge church that extends back now and forward it's all present and the graces of the sacraments that I've given to us as it draws closer to our Lord Jesus or as you said you and I can you've always loved it but now yeah one thing too I would say to anyone who hesitates don't hesitate any longer don't be your bill I was right I felt like I was rebellious and reluctant and stubborn dragging my feet don't it's not worth it because so disappointing that I hadn't done a whole year and three months after Gary had decided took me that long I regret that because it's when God calls go go trust ask for sorry but God's timing is always too right yeah yeah yeah and the beauty of the confessionals getting what lies by that's right yes that's right now by grace press Hahn will come forward all right I'm bless you both thank you for joining us on a journey Holman sharing you journey our prayers are with you both and as you move forward in Christ and thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I do pray that Charlotte Gary's journey is encouragement to you god bless you see you next week [Music] you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 14,919

Rating: 4.8352942 out of 5

Keywords: jht01625, ytsync-en, jht

Id: qhZ5F06U460

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 10 2018