The Journey Home - 2013-07-22 - Dr. Dale Pollard,- former Protestant

good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program our guest tonight is dr. Dale Pollard a former let's say Lutheran Baptist Semele of God Presbyterian and the Lord's been bringing him on a long journey all in following our Lord Jesus Christ but of course he's here tonight to talk about his journey home and so dr. Pollard it's great to have you deal they go Graham thank you for coming this long way ahead of you a long way from the west coast yeah still good comedy though yeah well good to have you in a program Before we jump into it you have a website 8th day community org all right so as people are hearing your story if they want to find out more about not only yourself but what you do that's a good place to go yeah a great place great place to go all right okay we'll probably get back to that later but here first thing I always do is get out of the way as soon as I can to help the the folk understand from the beginning of the Lord was reaching as a young man to come home with the church well I grew up in Seattle I'm a Boeing brat meaning my dad worked and retired for Boeing SEMA Graham parents uncles aunts friends all joined the lazy B as we call it up in Seattle but I was spared spared the lazy B and that's part of my part of my journey so as a young kid my dad worked and I'm very proud to be connected with this my dad worked for Boeing an aerospace engineer and he worked on the Saturn 5 booster rocket really yeah in Apollo program and so we moved from Seattle as young kid down in Huntsville Alabama that's where because Redstone Arsenal down there they tested the the rocket that's four years and that's there's a civil rights movement so little white kid down to Alabama was kind of a shock and but good memories yeah and then from there back up to Seattle for a year and then from there down to Cocoa Beach Florida Cape Canaveral and wow you were you were in the view of all the stuff I was watching on TV yeah that's exciting as a young man it was great it was great it's so great I made sure that I was married on July 20th 1985 July 20th 1969 was the first moon landing right ya know so make sure you have that is your anniversary it's a double impact it still amazes me that when your dad was doing all that they were mainly doing it with slide rules oh yeah yeah I mean that's something our young people don't can't connect to today with everything computerized but then it was slide rules and slide rules computers our very rudimentary yeah it's me actually drawing things on paper you know that work that's right with all that traveling was there a spiritual side well that was tough I grew up in Missouri Stan and Lutheran and remember as a young kid in Huntsville we said we were part of a small church that was Missouri Synod I remember some pretty fond times there small church but it was tough to connect Seattle and all that moving around my mom was Missouri Synod she she really had she really ran the spiritual side of the family my dad's higher power was a engineering what does it mine I'm just making a joke he's no Catholic by the way no but I understand that because my have an engineering background - I mean it's so all grossing yeah even essays in perspective and looking at the world relationship it becomes your you know your world anyway so I have fond memories of that but moving around and in high school became too difficult for my mom to drag us my brother and I and my sister to church dad didn't want to do that so we quit we quit church and became very complicated I did that pretty well in just high school no you know no spiritual sign although I have to say that the that the experience that my mom gave us and the church gave us helped I think it helped me not get into more trouble than I did because you know they had some some recollection that there was right and wrong and ten commandments and you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that there wasn't a whole lot of ought to do duties I think one of the things that was not helpful for me growing up it's not having you know my dad worked and worked and worked and worked he was gone a lot he whoever marrow space to Boeing defense so he was traveling a lot he was traveling to air force bases and just gone a lot so I didn't have a lot of you know the fatherly mentoring that yeah that was around a dead time yeah yeah some and some good memories of that when he was when he was home but not a lot you know during those formative years when you know your breach might inform yourself as a man not having that is a little bit difficult so when you do look back so the spiritual was fleeting because you were traveling a lot and for you as an individual was there a cognitive was a prayer was there a reality of the sense of God well or was it just not one of those categories that came up a lot in your private life I think high school more like that but I remember I just you just you know got a memory going yeah I remember in Alabama I would watch as a young kid I don't know why I watched this program it was a Sunday morning program with and to do with real life stories of I don't even know it was called real life stories of Christians and in their their life and how they touched the world Ernie you know early morning and I don't know why I wasn't watching cartoons maybe I was I just happened to be on this one program but I remember watching this one show about this couple especially this guy who is involved he's a Christian but not passed or anything just a lay person but involved heavily in people's lives especially young people's lines and what I recall of course I don't know if it's the full story because it's a long time ago is this friend this young guy that he befriended it was kind of a tragic story wound up committing suicide hanging himself I remember watching this and I don't know how the show ended but I remember I remember thinking you know I'm gonna do this not suicide yeah but I'm gonna be helping people in crisis of course I was right you know I was right after I was going to be a missionary in Africa and I said it but it touched me in a way that it's still it's a memory just implanted in the in the brain amazingly the Lord yeah this is things throughout our life yes I remember watching you know I don't think I wanted to do that but I thought that that's what I'm probably gonna do and it proved true you know I plunge in in people's lives but that's the rest of the story but it but at the time we've got you in your journey your high school faith is the church you know my higher power at that time was the Seattle Seahawks well early on is the Baltimore Colts so it was staying home watching football with with my brother and that was it okay and that's being goofy just goofy high school guys playing sports and just be goofy but nothing transcendent nothing already in-depth and it wasn't miss still amazes me having been a pretty much a believer all my life I came in imagine what life is like to not believe in God but a lot of people probably just like yourself it just wasn't a category that came up there's too many other things fill your life oh yes you many things in immediate I did not not believe in God but you know Jesus didn't come up and come up a whole lot yeah I remember of course portraits of the white Jesus staring off into space looking perfect I remember that Jesus good night it just was you know he wasn't involved in my life which was too bad which was pretty bad actually huh but they're already better early on that seed helps but the seed planted early on in my life Catholic Church but all any thoughts about that as a young man to man even I didn't think about much as a yeoman okay alright so I didn't think and certainly not the Catholic Church but you weren't on the trajectory of to following the footsteps of your father then in terms of engineering my brain isn't that way the more artists more designer so I knew I couldn't do engineering I you know I I was good at math you know but slide rules confuse me but you know I drew a lot I was artistic that was the stuff that really I was drawn to beauty yes as a young guy I remember that hmm yeah so I was drawn to beauty and that was that's part of the story part of the story about going going in the face so high school you know happen you know regular high school and then graduation now what do you do in life well I guess you go to college so I went to Community College for a while still nothing stirring except for the beginning stirrings of being lonely and something all of a sudden after high school you gotta start thinking about life so I started thinking about why I think you know I think I'm alone out here and I don't know that was part of the I think part of the spirits awakening maybe stirring up those things that were planted deep in them in the heart so eventually through missionary dating we know a missionary dating is about in the coma Washington this young girl who isn't I liked her a lot but the only place we went was Church didn't care let's go to church is a small Baptist Church the fundamentalist I mean really small maybe a hundred hundred folks so we went there and I started listening listening and listening and people were just totally friendly its welcoming potlucks were great you know I like pot Luck's like banqueting part of the story so I I became more aware of of Jesus me doing a Baptist Church because that's what you hear and if you're only a church of a hundred well here comes this pagon guy and we're going to get him we're gonna get him I'm gonna get him saved and so that's what happened yeah I just just for the audience that isn't remember the Baptist yours usually every Sunday there's a little bit of an altar call there's a depending on the Baptist Church could be an avert all or call right now every single slavery and if you're the one obviously paid kid they'll never answered the stinking every week there's old they don't turn to me so eventually I talked to the pastor and is that loneliness it came creeping in you know on those were the word started filtering in and he met with him and sinner's prayer accepted Jesus into my heart and was baptized that was a pretty embarrassing situation in a small Baptist Church and you've got the white gown on and the baptistry is up above the altar in the back and get me say something testimony and get dunked and there you go and it worked I mean I was really converted Jesus p.m. real went from Tacoma then guts you know my dad's hey got some money want to send Union brother and sister to college so pick a college so Western Washington University in Bellingham where I live now sight unseen went up there said yeah I'm gonna go to college and met my roommate who I didn't see you know now you do the whole Facebook roommate thing and you can match DNA microchips you know you're all of a sudden compatible but he was Christian just an eclectic you know we had total opposite guys but he knew we were roommates for two years he's a great guy anyway I came up I'm a Christian I'm going to a secular college I'm if I have to be martyred I'll be martyred that's what you do as a Christian so then I saw this poster Campus Crusade for Christ okay so Crusade is here well good I'm not the only Christian on campus so I plunged it to their meetings and but one thing that was interesting I went to crusade and that time it was a pretty group there's another group I'll talk about later that was huge but when I went to crusade it didn't the first impression you know first impressions are very important like here the meant that coming home networking total hospitality total welcome that's God's voice right feel part of the family I went there is no fault of them maybe it's just a bad night I didn't feel welcome you know I was a newcomer not knowing anything and I just needed but be around people who acknowledge another Christian that didn't feel a real welcome but I stick with a group for about a year and then some other of my suitemates and in the in the dorm we're part of this larger group pretty large four or five hundred kids Chi Alpha assembly a GOG group called campus Christian Fellowship still going on and still same director after all these years and charismatic the tail end of the Jesus Movement and I plunged into that life and it was a great it was great as a college kid it was a beginning step of community discipleship Street drama of camps of persecution were kicked off campus for a while but it just made the larger they're back on campus of course so I became part of that big part of my life and after graduation from college graduation I then intern with that group along with my wife Diane who isn't my wife at that time yeah after you interned if there's opportunities around the country to start other groups Chi Alpha groups then you could go as a missionary to to those to those places and so we were picked again not married as a team to go down to Kearney Nebraska right on i-80 to start a group and be on staff of the semi-god Church and see how goes so it's an interesting story so we actually moved together in a u-haul truck towing or a VW it's like to Beverly Hillbillies we went down to Nebraska became campus pastors with county alpha and and on staff with us with the Assembly of God Church which is a bit problematic because the church we were part of in Bellingham just still going at Hillcrest Chapel was very unlike it was you know domme interdenominational in Outlook but this was very Assembly God so we had to a job just you know and after a couple years there but very interesting so there was a Baptist campus pastor who Rudy was a great guy we actually believed in tongues we thought that was great and the mainline denominations Catholic Methodist etc all campus pastors had a monthly meeting and these guys were great they were hospitable towards us and but they would talk about things I had no clue about you know I wasn't mean theology was theology I had know the Newman Center guy were talking about then I go home what's interesting what are you talking about Lutheran guy were talking about that you know it all you know bantering and in good faith so Diane and I got engaged that was another story I was gonna be single the rest of my life that's just what you do st. Paul said well if you if you don't want it if you if you're not married which is a vocation then you kind of freed up so I wasn't going to marry bet Holy Spirit many of the things and the whole church and other things in in mind so and that's a whole book in itself how this knucklehead finally recognized that this woman was wonderful I mean the whole church knew that and they were trying to get that through to me we became engaged to a standing ovation with church he decided that yes we need to go back to Seattle I want to go to Vancouver to Regent College and if I'm going to be in pastoral ministry need to know something and but we need to get married first they move back got married and then we started our life together I mean the simple thing just a mercurial here is that at this point theology is out there somewhere yeah but it's about following Jesus Christ no absolutely absolutely I mean that really is what you're saying going in all these different places even getting married all this was about following him absolutely yeah yeah and so I knew that I was pretty good at counseling and again going back to the childhood memory somehow campus ministry wasn't a good mix for me because you know I would be involved in people's lives helping Council I'd be down at Buffalo County Jail helping guys in the jail and I didn't really like being on campus so the clue was sounds like it's not for you and I'm for sure it wasn't so I went back got married started a Regent college part-time scratching out a living and then in summers going up to Alaska being a tour bus director in region college is a non-denominational correct that met Cooper BCE interdenominational evangelical mm-hmm great committed to Scripture and our Lord Jesus started by J I Packer and dr. Houston it was interesting dr. Houston really well Henry now and was pretty big part of the big campus group at in Bellingham they gave me talked a little bit beforehand Henry now it was great but we didn't connect it may be his Catholicism Catholicism helped informed his uniform his writing so I knew a little bit about you know Catholic spirituality imitation Christ I knew that I was drawn to contemplative meditative social action it's up to region college dr. Houston good Anglican that he is you take a course on prayer from him while sudden you're introduced to ladder of divine ascent john climacus the eastern fathers you know it's and it was a whole world opened up that i knew nothing about so i think that was really not a seed it was a you know it was a starter plant in the heart which I think started flourishing so up in Alaska a couple summers earning money for seminary and and driving the great whites I used to call him in the coaches in the Yukon and based out of Fairbanks Alaska there's a great time he's a great time listening to stories listen to stories of people who want to tell their story and oftentimes these people this is their 50th state this is the last big vacation of their life and I would just listen to their stories of course I do the tour bus thing but their stories were remarkable just really remarkable stories so back you know involved in community churches and church starts Church endings you know the I was involved in a lot of different churches then back to Hillcrest Chapel kind of our mothership which wasn't initially a very friendly place to be again that's kind of like being in crusade but where do we go yeah so we came back and of a stranger's but we wanted to plunge plunge in and and so we did and eventually started a counseling ministry with some other other guys and well we're I was working at a treatment center drug and alcohol treatment center working with kids working with adults work with families and some other Christians were involved with that and we started counseling ministry in the in the county called bridging and became itinerant counselors we would go to somebody gone to Baptist we were ecumenical and at that time that was awhile ago there wasn't a whole lot of counseling Christian wise no you know there's a lot and eventually I became you know I became director of that and then the church Hillcrest chapel asked me to come on and bring bridging in and then start a community service kinda like Catholic community services and that's how a big part of my my journey really started already started taking off in connection with the other and you said we so your wife's with you is very much part of this ministry again its christ-centered ecumenical but it's not you know it's Protestant its Evangelical Protestant but not really a cumin occult but when I when I mean it can make what I meant was it's about Jesus doesn't matter what church area exactly it's just about Christ and bringing a person to a deeper relationship with Christ right and all the other issues that involves it like whether it's alcohol it's it's finding it relationship with Jesus Christ actually the emphasis now had you gotten your demon yet its spiritual that's coming that's kind of okay all right why don't we pause there okay let's pause there because it sounds like now all of a sudden you're gonna start becoming a little more aware of maybe this other lots more that's more okay let's pause there and come back and pick you up on that are ideal thanks a lot see bit welcome back in the journey home our guest tonight is dr. Dale Pollard and he's I've cut you off right in the middle of your you're doing community counseling which is getting in connection kind of non-denominational helping people in the name of our Lord is really what you and your wife are both are both doing but of course now you're you're working with a variety of traditions yeah doing that very thing so that's when things started on staff of the church now full-time learning with church politics are all about and I'm liking that very much but that's just gonna wait which denomination was that the SLA god okay I became licensed with the Assemblies of course one of their distinctives is you know who the street initial physical evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues which was part of my experience but that became that became a wrestling point later on so we're helping people were starting groups for starting 12-step groups expanding the counseling ministry part of that was there's a big Human Services program of a Western Washington University and kids are connected so I brought them and their MSW master of Social Work interns into my own internship as well as lay people that became a big part of of my life there the church and part of that trained people again this is Regent College up in Vancouver and their influence is is contemplative made it meditative well it's a spiritual formation of of life but in any counseling in any group you're dealing with loss loss and leave it's about loss something is lost and so in the tradition I was in I couldn't find adequate answers to laws I couldn't I was searching for them what about suffering what about unexplained suffering it's not always Romans 8:28 when somebody is grieving the loss it doesn't help so that plunged me pretty almost instantly into classics in the classics of the faith Desert Fathers the Eastern Church Orthodox Church around what our ultimate answers and it has my tradition address those I found out it didn't it didn't address them adequately it put a bandaid on on things that didn't help many people so I was gonna see this sometimes a simple gospel you have to have faith in Jesus my life's a mess put your faith in Jesus well yes but that isn't the answer to suffering or even if there's a value to suffering as their purpose by my suffering all these other issues like I remember as a pastor one time I don't want a wife a man a wife died of cancer and everyone said well if she had enough faith it wouldn't happen I mean it was a disaster the husband left the faith completely because this whole inadequacy to deal with the issue of suffering it lost so a couple that was with personal exactly the personal journey so early on in marriage we found out we were infertile and that can throw you for a big loop and it did it is matter of fact we went again this is one of the churches that we were counseling out of the pastor wanted us to come to a prayer and healing time I said sure okay we'll come to it so we went and it was okay and afterwards he he said well I think you know I think this is gonna be it God's healing you but think about your lack of faith and I just stopped him I said look dude I don't buy that I don't care about it guys got something in this suffering for us and that was he what and so soon after he was booted out of church no but that's that's another story yeah but I knew God had something for this but the church had a hard time directing and at this time I had started a group called lamentation loss and grief group different than what I have now just a different content but knowing that there's gotta be something in people's stories to be listened to that most of grieving is having someone listen like you're listening now to my story of grief and maybe my story the story of the person who died or the dream that died just let me talk and you can pray somewhere else in silence don't talk that was a big part of what how I trained my interns just don't talk when somebody's like this and so I was a guy on staff right people in common and their grief stories would would be pouring out and so started a class start and then our personal journey right around well who's gonna address our grief I never mowed my lawn one time in I hate mowing I hate it I detest it that was my way one day thinking know if if and when this is after infertility that discovery when I have a loss how is it Church gonna help me and my family I'm helping lots other people but how are they gonna help me well back up a little bit sorry infertility so we prayed for five years ones God have for us adoption children in our life in some other way and in prayer my wife led the way as a lot of wives do and since that we need we needed to adopt internationally so big part of our story is adoption in your national adoption so our first daughter Amy who's now at st. Martin's College next to st. Martin's Abbey where I'm an hob late now he's from China and so this is early on and Chinese adoption we just felt compelled to go overseas so I went to we went to China for a couple of weeks got a baby came back we got a big souvenir from China and so she obviously was part of our life and we want to go back to China to get a sister number two and we wanted to we wanted to have I have girls because they were the least in China mm-hmm they're thrown away they're abandoned as Amy was my oldest because that's what guy calls us too he calls us to help on the street that's you know that's that childhood memory you gotta help you got to be engaged so that was huge and wonderful and we want to go back to China Matt that time China you know changed rules like this we couldn't go back but the adoption agency we were working with you could be in two programs at once in case something changed so we're in Russia too so it changed just like that Oh big grief big sorrow but now or I was a little bit ahead of my wife in this one if she was devastated we couldn't go back we thought we couldn't adopt again Russia we got to go to Russia so we went to Russia I got our second daughter Anna from just north of latter Bostock and we're in Russia for a month and to fly from Vladivostok to Moscow to get her visa we were in Moscow for a week you know just hanging out visiting the kremlin and you know you do that when you're hanging up so that story of adoption as Chesterton says you know overwhelms then small so that sorrow becomes small and special his words I think it was an orthodoxy or everlasting man that Christianity satisfies supremely in this that sorrow becomes that joy becomes overwhelming and sorrow special and small I knew he's Catholic these were those guys I can say in a sentence what most people can't say in volume so then you know that redemptive suffering and then reading and in plunged into into what the world is around around suffering and then you know so we're advocates for adoption obviously we're you know we appreciate the Catholic stance on gay marriage especially on abortion you know we're part of that right to life in adoption stories don't have lis involved with that and then my mom died unexpectedly 13 years ago she was a hub you know as most mums hubs and that was devastating for for the family devastating and devastating for me it was very close to her as I was chaos you know the grief story of how your body reacts and that you know mowing the lawn came true when that suffering happened and no fault of their own they just didn't know how to react a staff of the church had befuddled they didn't know had a how to attend to my grief and that was that was maybe that big part of the story that launched launched us in a different direction who's gonna address our grief who will understand what work what we're going through know people you know have know folks who just have to say something because we're uncomfortable not saying anything though that's once they say it they're comfortable and they can go home and you can be mad at them well that's that's what what's happening so I was digging through Scripture what's gonna happen you Lord I'm I'm drying up here read the Psalms I cambrie in the Psalms well the old kind of end happy except for a couple of baby bashing wounds and and that's just his anger cometh through but then I came to Psalm 88 the dark psalm and that's the only one that comforted me because there I saw that God understood my suffering he understands it you know I just it doesn't end happy it's a darkness not a dark night of the soul it's that's a different deal but it's just a it's who's gonna understand my suffering that was a big then all of a sudden that trajectory was kind of like this towards the church kind of went pretty quickly so reading things and just okay and then you know I'm developing remembrance services that look very Lutheran and kind of Catholic actually not even knowing it I'm getting into trouble because this is an assembly God Church well we're figuring out pretty quickly that our life is not gonna be with his thumbs of God now I'm ordained with you as soon as you got a very uncomfortable it's very uncomfortable I just lighted you to do it so life goes on I'm on staff for a long time and Ray Buckey comes you know Reebok you from Graduate University who he got his famous years urban Christian theology as big as the city growing doing his his gig and the Chicago comes you know moves back to wacom County just where I'm at because he's from the logging part of walking John County and he's in the church I know who he is cuz I'm in a Christian community development I'm into prison ministry I'm into all this stuff he says got a seminary and here's here's the demon you want to be part of that yeah okay so I just knew that we had you know had to do something because life is coming to an end at this church plunged in a transformational inner-city work community development but my bent was spiritual formation and so I kind of tailored things around loss and grief palliative care what it means to suffer I should be I should probably have been going to a Catholic seminary but it was great it was great so I got my doctorate ministry and then shortly after that I left the church after some the pastor that was there a long time was asked to leave that was very hurtful Church was in chaos we needed to leave so I had some teaching gigs and a local Christian college in tech college and the seminary that he graduated from and we would we left the church zombie gone I let my ordination lapse because I didn't believe that anymore he may be a man of honor I didn't believe that developing or was part of a community church an inner-city community development shirt church for a while then Presbyterian and then it happened and then it happened so the pastor who is great preacher at the Presbyterian Church great friend was on sabbatical in Italy Christmas we didn't like anybody else preaching there we wanted to go Christmas Eve somewhere and my wife and your peripheral nests and we'll leave let's go to Sacred Heart which is just up from the church I was on staff with I used to go walk with guys and go in the church when it was open and pray just love the beauty let's go to children's mass because was Eve okay yeah I never been to mass you thought I was old I mean Latin we wouldn't understand anything but who cares it's pretty church so we went and of course it wasn't all in Latin it was kids chaos everywhere kids and you know the nativity thing being cute Christmas carols didn't even know who the pastor was the priest and we're up at the balcony because we thought we came early but we didn't and it was crowded and we came out of that stunned I could not get my eye off the crucifix in front we didn't even know we knew who Mary was we didn't know what this guy was is that Paul is that who is this guy I think it's gonna be Joseph yeah it's gonna be Joseph because but we don't we didn't we knew nothing what's the interesting we you know I knew some of the Desert Fathers and in that but didn't know anything but Diana and I came out there stunned yikes what's God do it we're so stunned what he didn't go back for two weeks praying this guy wants to be Catholic what's going on here that kids going huh what you mean so we said well okay kids nor teenagers we're gonna go to Mass we're gonna make ourselves known which is very unusual they're gonna go to coffee hour we're gonna make ourselves known because this is the last straw we're to a point of we're not gonna go to church anymore or very seldom because I knew everybody in the county nothing was feeding us we we just decided why do we go to church to hear somebody's opinion about a commentary that they read is that all there is we've kind of heard this stuff before we're getting dry then it it happened so we went back we didn't know anything we knew nothing when Daniel when to stand up what they're doing does that and the other thing went to copy our let's meet some people so I met one of the people and staff she's wonderful she runs our CIA we met the priest at that time young guy charismatic great pastor okay I just keep going let's keep going to see what happens because this is kind of cool but we needed to read and so we were telling her store our story to her we first met this person who's in charge of liturgy Gyu story sounds like Scott Hahn a little bit do you know Scott Hahn no who's he yeah we knew nothing and so she gave us a bunch of CDs and listen to this oh it's wow this is something so we need to learn more so we our first book that we bought with Catholicism for dummies you know it burns a noble way to jazz my father Julio yeah yeah of course and it's great the basics right oh when I started to do that oh look at that and backing up a little bit you know my spiritual formation studies I knew that we didn't get married in the Protestant faith Mary was somebody special I didn't know how special but he used to say that a lot was coming trouble we don't get married ooh he would ever pay attention to her she's not just a random womb she won the lottery to be the mother of God I mean she was pity somehow we kind of treat her that way as non Catholics but yeah we didn't know really what they didn't know you didn't know part of the part of the trajectory right so we're plunging in and we're just learning learning learning where it's graphing books god oh yeah and this oh yeah that one and why do you got to be kidding so and then we plunged into our CIA and we just told the girls looks like mom and dad I could become Catholic what you don't have to as your journeys but you're gonna have to come to church if you eat my food you got to come to church right so he came and God was touching them - just touching them because they were injured before the leaving of the former church was very difficult my mom's death very difficult for them they wanted some answers to some answers that they were meaningful so our CIA where there is a family for the nine months and we just kept going and reading and the priest over for four hours at our house and he's explaining things for me intern of mine who's now becoming a nun she's an artist became he came over she came Catholic so it's pretty evident that God was that God was leading us into the church unbelievable w-which made a lot of people uncomfortable then oh well be uncomfortable this is what God is doing with us so our CIA we decided as a family yes God's movie gets into the church and refresh just a year and a half ago I became Catholic together at an Easter Vigil often when especially with your background Lutheran Baptists I believe God a little bit of Presbyterian there's often doctrines that stand in the way or our barriers you have to step over but it does seem like one of the this issue of suffering was really the drawing thread all the way through this so as you entered the church what aspect of Catholic teaching on suffering was particularly fulfilling for you that drew you to the church that's a good question well reminded of a vision that I had before coming into the church this is that a charismatic and healing ministry called Living Waters that wasn't as a conference in just outside of Calgary and there was way charismatic I mean it was so charismatic I became uncomfortable with charismatic but during that time I had an unexpected vision of a cross powerful vision of Jesus on the cross I could smell things I could feel it was just a incredible but I think it was Jesus on the cross that that already spoke to me and spoke to my family Jesus on the cross because the you know in Protestant churches you see a cross but he's not there he's just not there it's almost like he's been excluded from the proceedings or a lot about him but seeing Jesus on the cross meant in the heart for sure that he understood suffering so as it was the crucifix that was hidden on the cross and what it meant for him to suffer for us that started driving being driven home I heard it before but I had to visualize it and so I visualized that and it it made more and more sense and more and more depth in our inner journeys well Paul makes that statement and then evil he will preach Christ crucified yeah not just resurrected right Christ crucified and and I'm wondering Dale also this idea that in the you know I certainly don't to point fingers at our non Catholic brothers and sisters I don't be negative there at all that's not the point but often the answer there to suffering was there's a lack of faith lack of trust this suffering has to be put away move on where's your joy whereas the Catholic perspective is in the midst of this suffering might be exactly where God wants you to be so you can be drawn closer to him mm-hmm in the midst of that suffering there's something there about that stage in your life that suffering has a purpose a goal for you it wasn't much in the non Catholic literature that dealt with that when you were in your demon program was that some of it you're also getting introduced to not by the instructors but by my own inquiry basically being drawn drawn into that and it was you know the there's no real there's some answers for it but somehow in the Catholic tradition there's there's purpose but there's a listening presence that God gives us it's Psalm 88 for everybody God knows your suffering I mean really knows it and that's all you need to know there's no answers why sometimes most times but the God is present see Jesus is present with your suffering and that was somehow a disconnect in my in my Protestant life Jesus identified with it but if he's excluded from the proceedings then he's he's just kind of like a skyping partner he's not there with you no I'm also thinking of that that verse and Colossians 1:20 for what Paul says he completes this suffering yeah yeah I mean I didn't have a category for that before but there was that verse you know now we understand this sharing the mystery of that I mean there's a mystery in there yeah of how we share in the suffering of Christ Goodin email I'll see if we get one in time Dylan from Washington my family and I converted a few years ago and after getting used to the differences in liturgy and deepening our understanding of Catholic doctrine we're at a point where we want to grow in our spirituality what sort of places should we look to develop our understanding of Catholic spirituality and devotion in we come from the eclectic background like you or I came from how do you understand what Catholic spirituality isn't where do you go to make sure you're being drawn correctly one thing I was drawn to as the Benedictine Order and also the nation spirituality I was already on so one of my ministry is called prodigal man's ministry there's 12 steps woven in and out but you know there's some Benedictine spirituality and Jesuit spirituality so I would pick up maybe the order Saint Benedict and the Spiritual Exercises go to the classics go to the websites there lithic it began to plunge into some of these folks have been doing this for a long time I was always attracted to benedictine spirituality a long time before I became Catholic wanting to become a nob late which I did just this last March so some of the disciplines of the faith I think that would start there for sure I remember when I was on my own journey being introduced to Catholic spirituality I'm never being introduced to the way of the Cross Oh the 14 steps and and being befuddled by it there's no resurrection here yeah what's the problem with this thing because in my previous faith it was only about the resurrection it wasn't about the 14 right steps but the fort here we have this long stained tradition of these 14 steps of suffering that draws into that was that a part of your own journey that the stages of the Cross station of the cross yeah and a big part of the journey was I have to emphasize this enough his beauty and Dostoevsky we plunge in to Dostoevsky and it's not it you know it's not a light read you already plunged into the soul of man and his questions around then in his statement that beauty will save the world with the beauty of Christ is saving the world Jesus is saving the world so the beauty that I see again being a visual person that was enough to draw me I know the first time I saw a picture of the piata and Michelangelo I could not believe that any healing can do that how could any I'm especially young how can anybody do that it is so unbelievable and so that kind of beauty draws and the Catholic Church is so good at this even the icons own fill of orthodox beauty visual senses so you go to mass pay attention to the beauty around you the senses that are are all engaged in the in the liturgy be prayerful about and listen just listen I'm kind of amazed I was about ready to ask you about the Pieta cuz that's exactly what came to my mind in the meditation on the Pieta Mary the suffering Mary holding her son and what a what a meditative beautiful expression at the core of Catholic spirituality yeah is the piata itself how can anybody do that you know yeah so it's just meditating on its meditating on beauty so you go to Mass listen just listen listen to the beauty look at the trees that are in your backyard the stars at night the beautiful works of art that are continually being made that which is the deepest part of the human soul which is an expression of beauty in and wanting that in your heart I think that's where I would go Jerry from New York writes what are some of the things Dale and his family like best about being Catholic a good Catholic a little over a year right yeah well often I say you know being Catholic for over a year it's kind of like well it's the black and white Dorothy who's being caught up in Kansas right in a tornado and she opens the door from black and white into a colorful world of odds different world you know munchkins have kind of a different language it's colorful for us it's the continual discovery of new of new language a new tradition a new new everything what do we like well we like everything there's nothing we don't like I like the depth I like history like always attracted a Catholic scholarship beauty is what attracts us liturgy attracts us and just the life of being able you know the rosary everything it's like being in Oz I'm not wanting to come home what about your consoling because that's so much a part of both your and your wife's life how did your the Catholic faith has it affected your perspective on constantly yeah yeah because of the redemptive I you know I talked about trans figuration now that that somehow morning loss lamentation part of who we are but God transfigures that into an image of his son and it's an image on the cross it's not an empty cross and it touches that I think is a core of how it's different I got to be careful though you know because there's some you know the prodigal men's group is still like you manacle right but people here that is interesting so I have guys teach from our lessons that's how you make leaders and when they teach they're very close to Catholic theology without me saying anything very close I think I'll say something next time well it cuz you're young and in the faith and I I think another thing that I'm assuming you're gonna continue to grow is that one major difference and all these other traditions you were part of in the Catholic Church is the sacramental grace yes and that's really a whole different aspect of the faith then in all the other traditions so why do we go to church well we don't go to church to hear anymore preaching we just although homilies are good and sometimes they're better than others but why do we go to church we go to church to meet Jesus it didn't take us it took just a small step to believe in the real presence just a small step we go to to church to meet Jesus and his people and every Sunday this is where Pentecostals and Catholics are so close we see miracle that the bread and the wine are transfigured and transformed into Jesus body and we partake yikes that's a good reason to go to church and so yeah exactly in this continuing miracle of of divinization of experiencing ourselves the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which Opena cost us of course are big into but understanding this transformation of ourselves and to becoming what God intends us to be yeah it's a rich banquet it's a rich banquet we were just you know we're doing rice cakes and melba toast before but now it's rich for us well dill thank you so much for joining us on the journey home again eight-day community dot o-r-g eighth with it with the numeral eight eighth day community or in case more one know about you what you're doing make a deal for joining us thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I hope Dale's journey has been an encouragement to you god bless you you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 12,616

Rating: 4.5999999 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Protestantism (Religion)

Id: UFYG80OuTMg

Length: 56min 11sec (3371 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 23 2013