Journey Home - 2018-03-27 - Oscar Herrera

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home by Marcus Grodi your host for this program once again EWTN has given me this wonderful opportunity to join you this evening to hear the story of someone who was drawn by the holy spirit his heart mine was awakened to the fullness of the faith and often on the journey our program will have often guests from more we one might say more common ly suspected denominations that will be open to coming to the Catholic Church and then there's some that come from areas that are really hard we don't see very many converts from certain groups and there's a reason for that and I'm sure our guest tonight is going to share why the difficulty of the journey out of for example tonight our guest is a former Jehovah Witness Oscar Herrera Oscar it's great to have you to have you here thank you and as I mentioned we don't see very many former Jehovah Witnesses coming to the Catholic Church but it's great when we see that happen you know that's a very true statement okay so let me I mean back often and by you let's hear the beginning your journey all right well definitely it's a great journey I think the grace of God for for this but yeah definitely the the journey was I was born in Mexico City I was a good Catholic environment environment country yes correct and I did indeed was baptized and confirmed when I was six months old I did not know that until a few years ago but but that was me and I remember being raised in the Catholic faith I remember as far as back as four years old being you know going to Mass but you know I was a kid I remember being able to celebrate birthdays and celebrating Christmas and I was the only child so I got all the gifts and everything you know my my parents were excellent with me and in that regard so it was uh it was that point on but then when when I was five years old my dad started to study the Bible with the Jehovah's Witnesses and so for the point one night when I was five obviously I was you know I would go with my debt to the local Kingdom Hall in Mexico City and right away I started you know getting into and to everything that they that they do that they start teaching you so I enrolled in what they call the theocratic ministry school which is a very systemized way of studying the Bible and by the age of six already I was already giving public talks in front of a hundred 150 you know people and then what age six six years old yeah so I mean you know it's it's it was one of those things where you would have they would give you let's say for example Matthew chapter 5 verses 1 through 11 and you would have to drew a little introduction wreath the the verse and then a little conclusion so anywhere on a five-minute talk and then it went on building more and more as time went through so that was you know by the my first years as a as a Jehovah's Witness were very engulfed into reading the Bible at that age if you're developed then I mean I don't want to use you know I don't use in a negative term but it really became your whole worldview very early on you know I'm saying me very early on even before we usually consider the age of understanding what's good and bad you know you're overruled you one other thing I wanted to ask your dad who how do you explain that that your dad was so susceptible to this group had he not been well form do you think I don't think so and that's something that maybe we can touch on a little bit later as though as it goes through but that's something that I did find I had to later on you know quickly myself how did he get to that point yeah and and now you know as time has gone through I have found that that answer okay which switch I think it's going to be something you know like shat upon of this journey for anyone watching us alright excellent so there you are six-year-old yes that's amazing yeah six years old so comes to the age of nine and that's when we moved to Chicago we came over all my family and along with with my mom with my grandma as well so the whole family migrated to Chicago we and came to Chicago Heights where we currently live at the moment and so by the age of nine you know at that point my and my mother and my grandma still were kind of holding off on studying with the Jehovah's Witnesses but when we came over and you know we stayed at my uncle's house and they saw him and his family getting a Bible study that's when they started to you know to to study with them as well so that was when the you know even at that point then my grandma and my mom kind of came on board as well it was then the full family at the age of 10 that's when I decided to baptize as a Jehovah's Witness and now looking back on it you know at 10 years old that was I was I was a kid yeah but but but back then you know I wasn't pressured at all by my parents by my father at all nothing it was all me that I felt that as you know that that was going to be my future as an active Jehovah's Witness so inside inside yeah I wholeheartedly felt it and because of my public speaking you know preparation at such an early age everyone at the kingdom hall saw me as you know one day you're going to become a ministerial server and an elder a circuit overseer a district overseer you know just going up the the ranks and you know that was something that I highly believe in I was very you know I did it with with a passion very zealous and you know we'd wake up on weekends really early 7 a.m. to go either door-to-door or going to laundromats wherever you know to preach the gospel to leave you know the the the wake magazine The Watchtower magazine and then you know so very early each eye well that's how my journey started dude is that how one beat you thought one became a member of the 144,000 no that was a little more that was more different in regards the 144,000 is more of a belief of that's something more in your heart that you believe in it was you know till nowadays it's one of those questions or it's like how do you really know that you are part of that that group that only goes to heaven okay I was wondering if that was part of the plan no I don't know no no never never been a job witness I don't know if I've heard especially through my guess you know yeah no more of it was more the belief one of them is the 144,000 that would go to heaven Turing with with Jesus Christ and the other would be if you had the paradise here on earth so that was you know my you would say my my course in life would be to you know if one day I died and resurrected it would be on a paradise here on earth alright so that was you know that was trial that's where I was headed right right okay so there your laundromats and wherever your preacher yeah yeah and like I said it was a very very well systematic thing you know it would be five meetings a week Wednesdays Fridays Sundays and you're talking this for a period from since I was five years old till about my teenage years and it was it was very it was like clockwork you know so this like I said this is what I was installed upon all the beliefs by the age of 13 I had already read the their Bible the New York translation of the Holy Scriptures at two times so that was my life you know I really loved at an early age to read to do the public speaking to be able to convey God's Word when you came to the States did you enter into Hispanic Java witness community yes I'm saying so it's very your whole worldview again was reinforced in this english-speaking country by a Hispanic Java witness community correct correct yeah it's always been you know and nowadays as well are in the parish to where we are it's it's also Spanish community but yeah yeah when we came over the local law Jehovah's Witness congregation was in Spanish so again reinforcing you as a young man to keep your view in word correct to this community exactly okay yes yeah okay so you're a young thirteen fourteen year old right on fire on fire yes exactly yeah and now this is when a lot of you know that turmoil started to happen a little you know you know obviously with with adolescents a lot of changes come in life one of the things that really started to trigger you know little warning signs was I I really love sports especially soccer and I really wanted to be involved you know and the soccer team at my high school well one of the things that the Jehovah's Witnesses is a discouraged you a lot from having a you know more than the needed time with worldly people in other words people that are not within the Javas witness's organization and so I didn't think of that as something that was wrong I said well it's just you know playing sports I love I love playing soccer my dad was very strict with me on on that point because constantly the the literature the talks that they gave was specially targeted for young people as to do not spend too much time with with with the worldly people because sooner or later you're you know your attendance to the meetings all of those things are going to start decreasing and you're gonna have you know that's going to affect your your spiritual yeah there's some truth in that yeah yeah yeah so it was one of those things where you know I really didn't get to play soccer throughout of my four years as I really want it to the other thing is they highly discourage you from pursuing a higher education you know and I wanted to become an engineer and that was that was you know that's what I felt like I you know I excelled at school and I thought that's what I wanted to become in life an engineer obviously it's a career that takes up a lot of time a lot of study a lot of time and so that was a big component that they highly discourage you from pursuing a higher education was that was that because the the powers-that-be did not want the influence of what comes with the higher education or was it because the job witnesses were really a an offshoot of the Millerites so there was an idea that the end of time is not coming for is right around the corner so the whole idea of a higher education and careers doesn't fit with a view at the end times Cotman soon yeah that was that was part of it that was part of it that they wouldn't want you to you know your your basis was mostly to try to dedicate as much time as possible for the preaching work so you put in at least 90 hours a hundred hours at the preaching work every month so if if I was going to attend a engineering degree it would suck up all my time and I would dedicate very little to no time to the preaching work and since as you mentioned the end of times was in the air that was not a priority maybe some of those discourage marriage I don't know if job witnesses emphasis on that as far as marriage they don't but they at the same time as well they really push for you to marry someone within the organization so kind of kind of like a fruit of ancient you know the Old Testament as worthy is relates only how to do that covenant within their own people and not associated with with all the other everyone outside of being a Hebrews alright our guest is Oscar Herrera he's a former Joe witness okay so you're starting to see a few things that are just least discouraging it's not questioning your faith at this point but at least Santa I'm not happy about this part of my faith correct right yes so it was that and then at the same time as well it was that point in time where I wanted I wanted more freedom as well so I was one of the things that was very you know not really out of the box so at that point in time as well I started you know started attending nightclubs and I had really left the the the nightlife and just you know just to know having a good time with friends which at the same time that was also highly discouraged to say you know you know we don't want to do that so it created a conflict inside me because at the same time I didn't want to you know I wanted to please Jehovah and follow but at the same time I also had which I see now you know it's something that we all go as a lessons of trying to you know go about daily life and you know trying to do you know things and I was really getting into anything like drugs or or getting drinking none of that it was just you know having a good time but a lot of that was very controlled as well in my environment all right up until this time then when you're reaching out a little bit had your childhood Catholic I'm not gonna say Catholic faith doesn't sunk you really had a Catholic faith but any of that what would your view of Catholics during all this time oh my view I mean I was I was pretty much brought up anti-catholic on all all ranks everything so that was my basis of that since I as you mentioned my encounter with with Catholicism at an early age was really know yeah so all this time being prepped on with the public talks with the Bible study with their literature is is all pretty much an anti-catholic so I was I was pretty much brought up on you know obviously the you know the Mary the images and so forth we can go on out yeah so it was my upbringing was extremely anti-catholic which is also one of the things as you know we viewed the the Catholic Church as as you know as the worst you know that they were you know once Armageddon came by you know the the Catholic Church was going to be destroyed and Armageddon and only the Jehovah's Witnesses were going to be the only ones saved and everybody else would be destroyed so your your movement from individual witnesses was you were seen as you were saved from the heretical Church into the true Church correct Jehovah correct exactly yeah so yeah my bringing was extremely anti-catholic so that made it definitely you know big challenge for for me to become Catholic and and that was one of the things I said I you know I'm never viewed myself as a Catholic ever ever in my life all right all right so what happened during this time when you're starting to plant your Wild Oats it was happening yeah well turned out at that point when I when I you know I decided to go through and go into the university I said you know I'm going to go into engineering and I did go through surprisingly my my dad who was very strict at the time there was something in him that said okay well kind of like okay you're already old enough you know what decisions you want to make so I ended up going into school started into the engineering school and at the same time there was also as part of the humanities course there was a course called introduction to world religions and so this this course it was just a one semester it was what did it for me to open up my mind completely from just all my life upbringing saying Jehovah's Witnesses is the only you know it's the only way to be saved so this opened up my mind to see you know other religions be able to know what they were and as part of the curriculum at the end of the course we had to do a a research on two major religions and so I didn't want to pick the Catholic Church I stayed away from that but I did go into Judaism and Buddhism so as part of that I you know I visited their you know their places of worship and and so that gave me a little bit more of an open mind to accept what people believe and that we're you know we're all created equal but you know everyone comes from a different background and so to that point I started to kind of get away from that you know just jehovah's witnesses only are but except of their other people as well at the time it wasn't pulling you away from your home witness per se well at that time i was already sort of a nag it's starting to be inactive as well in that point in time because of you know the combination of you know trying to you know my my daily life my party life and and at the same time i my studies as well which obviously you know they did draw a lot of time away so it was a combination of that but i would say also added to that mix was when i met who's now my my wife okay so as well as i mentioned to you earlier they really pressed upon if you want to marry someone you know preferably someone within the Jehovah's Witnesses organization and that was the case so when i meet my wife you know she was she was Catholic you know maybe not two practicing Catholics but but Catholic nonetheless so that created a big stir as well and a bigger conflict as well with Jehovah's Witnesses organization yeah they're probably sitting there saying we see we told you you know if you're gonna go outside the box you're gonna go out there and party you're gonna play soccer or want to play soccer you go away to college look what happens exactly exactly so that that's what happened so at this time you know we we ended up we ended up conceiving 101 of my daughter so you know that definitely will push the button to them and the Redflex for them and say you know we have to we have to meet with you and they were constantly you know the elder the congregation elders were constantly you know harassing me with calls and visits and you know non-stop to want to meet with me because you know I hadn't fall into a grave sin and I you know we weren't married at the time and all this so that that created such a turmoil not only at the at the local congregation but at the same time with with my parents obviously yeah correct so your mother at this time the drove witness my mother both parents were solidly job witnesses incorrect and certainly you had gone against all the rules and so here look what's happened were they trying to convert your wife to or just get you back know one of the things that what happened is with once this happens in we we have this meeting they call it a judicial community meeting so judicial committees made once you are already a baptized of Jehovah's Witness and if you know you're incurring a grave sin they have this meeting with you with two to three elders and they you know try to kindly say you know we haven't we have noticed that you know you were doing a stellar job and now we don't notice you being at the meetings we noticed that your preaching has gone down we don't see you as often what happened so that at first they try to you know try to you know put that emphasis on what's going on how can we help you but at the same time their viewpoints of what they see it is if you are unrepentant then you are disfellowshipped from the Jehovah's Witness organization and they use for example like first Corinthians 15 11 as one of their bases for disfellowshipping in other words in order for me to fully show repentance was to say okay I still want to we still want to maintain a Jehovah's Witness obviously I would have to make some changes in my life but I want to stay but but at that point in life I did not want to be a Jehovah's Witness anymore I thought everything was you know the meetings were boring you know I was at a point where already I was extremely already disconnected with with better with that life yeah and where your were you at with God during that time you know and I mean as a Jehovah Witness would you say you would you had a intimate relationship with God prayer with God and then what about this time was just was God out of your life or yeah yeah I would say throughout my whole life journey as a Jehovah's Witness I would say yes God was in there you know Jehovah was in my life because you know I did you know prayed every day I read scripture every day so you know that was very instilled upon me but at this point in life with everything that was going on at the moment instead of drawing me closer to God it just you know drove me away from everything and during the that but there was a five-year period after that that I became agnostic so I did not want to know anything about organized religion I did not want to know anything about Jehovah's Witnesses I did not want especially Catholic Church that was you know I would always say if I one day become you know something I will never I will make sure that Catholic is not one of them that was the you know that was the least of the things I wanted it to become yeah so yeah five years was that what you were telling to we had you gotten married by this point yes you're talking to your wife was she interested in Catholic Church at all going back well she was already she was already a Catholic but at the same time you know she wasn't really - practicing you know we would go to we would go to Mass and that was that was also one of the things we had because I didn't want to go to church and she would kind of say you know you know let's let's go as a family and I said no no I don't want to go you know you can go take the kids come home and then we can go out to eat her you know but but I really try to stay away from from all that so a few times I did go to Catholic Church but when I went it was pretty much more to just criticize and point the finger and say oh why did the priest do that why do you guys kneel here why you know it was it was all why why why I'm pointing the finger not knowing that when I was putting the finger I had three putting him back to me but that was it it was it was you know every time there was a conversation regarding especially in Catholic faith and doc my I was always to attack because that was you know that my hope I'm bringing was anti-catholic yeah I mean you were going to back the job witness at all him no no no I definitely had my mind set up that I didn't want out so the only connection you had with any religion at the time was just to go and be critical so you were just closing doors you were just closing door correct correct yeah and yeah I was just and obviously all that knowledge that I had you know received threat throughout my time as Joe versus but it was kind of like a combination of I made God to my own form you know and you know a lot of things you know happened through that time where now that I look back I said you know without God we are nothing back then I said you know I was my own God you know because I said you know I have a career I have everything so I don't have you know I really didn't you know I need to go somewhere for a place to worship God you know sometimes those world religion classes depending on how they're taught can really leave a person with the idea that you know it really doesn't matter this is all man-made one culture versus another is not then the improve with this really a god or not it's just correct I mean was is that kind of have that influence on you after you took that class no the influence that that the class had on me was just to be islets I would say more acceptant other faiths because I remember even my professor back than saying we are not here to discuss religion as this is what you're gonna believe or you know have that that fight between ology said we're just here to share you could be 80s you could be agnostic you could be Catholic or anything to stand back and better understand each exactly are you all right why don't we take a break Oscar when we get back we'll we'll figure out what opened your heart to the Catholic Church all right say well thank you be back as well [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host before we continue with our guest tonight I want to encourage you if you like the stories on the journey home if they're an encouragement to you that I have a book that I want to strongly encourage you to consider reading it's called from atheism to Catholicism it was edited by Brandon McKinley it contains the stories of nine former guests of the journey home who told their stories from atheism to Catholicism and Brian Brandon scuse me McKinley very wonderfully edited their stories and put them together and this wonderful book I was invited by EWTN to write the foreword for the book EWTN published the book and you can get the book from EWTN Service Catalog so I encourage you to consider this wonderful book from atheism to Catholicism all right thank you all right our guest is Oscar Herrera and I've interrupted you rudely in the journey and so now I'd love with all that you've come in to a new V find yourself in a period of agnosticism really where do you go what was it that opened your heart then to the Catholic Church well it's a very very interesting journey there so turned out that in one of these when I was a tiny to to Mass you know with with my family wife and kids there was oh there was a point where we went to which our current parish st. Paul Catholic in Chicago Heights so we heard the local priest there and I say you know what he's he's definitely a good priest the way he he his homily is he preached the word everything and so you know he's he's good so in one of those days they there was a a message ha from the pew saying about a marriage retreat and right away my wife said hey you know we have to go and I said mmm I'm like this is as much as I can go just you know I'm not going to ever especially if it was something Catholic I really try to stay away from it so it was one of those things where right we you know our marriage needed it at the time but I was just really you know since it was Catholic I did not want anything with us but turns out that as the week near by this leaf movement of marriages it's in Spanish is horn Ava's matrimony Alice de vida Christiana so it's a lay movement for marriages and when we attended this retreat I said you know what okay I'm going to go with you but inside me I had that that mindset of you know what what are those Catholic is going to show me so I had you know I had that that view point and I said you know what even I might even go there to that retreat and I might pull a few people away you know this freedom from what they believe is wrong you know well you were a preacher from age six exactly exactly so that was my mindset you know and turned out that the one that ended up you know having that encounter was myself yes that was that was a truly an amazing experience I mean I could really put it this way that just those three days that we were in that I was in that retreat was amazingly more just in those three days than my whole past years as a Jehovah's Witness I mean that's how that's how great of an experience it was for me and obviously all those questions that I had I didn't get everything answered at the moment but that was you know kinda like with with Saul when he has that encounter with Jesus you know it kind of leaves you with you know you are confused you say you know you know I I was I was it was really a point in time where I II had a an encounter with Jesus at that point and said you know Jesus if you really want me to you know forgive me for all my sins everything that I had committed that that at that time I said but if you really want me to go back where I was which I didn't want to but if you want me to go back I need you to show me and I will do that or if you want me to become Catholic at the same thing I want you to show me something you know palpable that I would be you know either go back to where I was or become a Catholic like Gideon's fleece in the Old Testament exactly exactly so it was it was it was that extreme encounter and I would say within that that marriage retreat where my conversion started you know can you remember anything specific from those three days that really was an awakening moment or something that the leader said or a scripture or something definitely it was the encounter with the Eucharist which me as a jehovah's witness that the Eucharist was not in my vocabulary I said you know what would it what is you Chris and I remember you know when I was a kid and all I remember you know people growing up and get in receiving Communion but that was as far as I you know really knew about it but you know being a Jehovah's Witness you know you Chris was not it was not in our in our vocabulary at all they have what's called the the memorial which is done you know they they base it off the 14th of Nisan according to the Jewish calendar so it's just more of an emblem so you have the wine and the bread but it's just an emblem that you pass around and since you know as we mentioned before if you were part of those 144,000 if that was your calling you would be able to partake of those emblems but otherwise if you know let's say you and I said you know we want to we're going to we're going to be living on paradise here on earth we would just pass around the emblems and that was as far as the encounter was you know so it was really nothing as to what happened at this retreat but that point in time I think that was that's when I had this this powerful prayer with just me and and God and when I when I said you know what I give up my ego has to go from here and I will do whatever you tell me to do so I think that that was the that was the biggest encounter in that retreat that that sparked that you know that's something in my heart too you know and even though I really did not know that I was going to become Catholic because I didn't really want to but that was definitely the the breaking point I would say so when you left that retreat you weren't you didn't walk out of there practicing Catholic and that practicing Catholic however from that point in time of the retreat where we encounter with the with the Eucharist I had never did the sign of the Cross myself never until after that I remember telling my wife and said you know what I need to do the sign she was like go ahead it's fine no no problem so the you know that was just the baby first baby step I would say you know but no no I didn't come out you know I came out with probably more questions than answers but definitely you know it was at that point where I was confused to where I remember even in my family asking me oh are you already converting into Catholic I said no no no no I just you know I just went to you know I just went there that was it but something inside me you know led me to to ask more questions and as time went through then I said you know what do I need to become a Catholic you know it was just something that was done in the background the Holy Spirit was really doing it to work something that I didn't really force nothing he just you said it had gone through a time when you would have called yourself an agnostic did that we remain after that retreat were you still failing far from God or doubting the reality of God right he'd become real more real to you as a result of that retreat no he hadn't become definitely real definitely real and a lot of things really pieced together I remember even after coming out of the retreat you know for example as a family you know every time after you know before every meal we would always pray as a family something that we didn't really do before so a lot of changes definitely sparked out of that out of that retreat that till nowadays you know we definitely prayer before meals is a must at our table so know definitely a lot of that you know I would say pretty much that era of agnosticism ended at that all right at that point in time so what got you to then I was a start seeds or what happened so then what happened I started and you know in my head and my heart I was like you know what what do I need to become a Catholic which by definition I was already a Catholic you know because I wasn't baptized when I was a kid I so I just knew that so I remember asked my mom and you know said hey you know they're asking for the for these certificates of baptism certificate and she was like well why do you need it just kind of that questioning and I said oh you know I needed and you know I started inquiring into these she's a joyful witness at this point a correct exactly yeah so I I had a very nice discussion with with the with the local priests at that time in our in our parish so kind of like what we're doing here you know sat down with them and in comparison to what the elders made me feel like you know that I was not repentant he made me feel the complete opposite kind of like you know the the frame you know behind us where he said you know he acknowledged me for everything that I had gone through to this point and instead of really judging me and saying oh you know you did this you did this he said no you know we will gladly you know God will always accept you and you know if you have if you have if you're repentant and everything you know he you know welcome so I inquired into what he told me I don't know about it but he mentioned the RCI yeah he said well you know why don't you start looking into our CIA it's gonna start enough in a few so the reshoot was in May and an RCA starts what about September October around that time so within that you know those months I started you know looking into information about our CIA so I joined our CIA throughout this time I had to make connection with my godparents in Mexico so that they would be able to search around for the parish to get my certificates and send over that information because I really wasn't getting all that information here and we didn't really have it handy so once they send these documents I that's when I found out this was early 2014 that I had been both baptized and confirmed when I was six months old in Mexico so I was like wow I'm confirmed as well yeah so it was it was an it was an amazing journey in our CIA obviously I would say I was a little bit more ahead of the other colleagues that were with me there just because I had that understanding at least of Scripture yeah you know but at the same may have read a Bible that has a few translation when you read generally the Bible cover-to-cover a couple exactly exactly yeah so I had a you know a broader idea in that respect and I remember my our CIA teacher she said oh here's the compendium of the you know and I said well compendium is just you know a little bit I'm like where's the where's the whole catechize oh that's a big book I'm I want that whole book I need to read that book because I had questions you know I had questions and like I said I was anti Catholic so it was like I really wanted to prove or find you know something where the Catholic you were still actively trying to write and the brother on the floor there's got to be a flaw here exactly okay exactly obviously everything basing out everything from scripture to the Catechism and you know so I really wanted a dig deeper and throughout my all our CIA I ended up reading the whole the whole catechism as well that's a huge book I read it all from cover to cover as well yeah so that definitely was a big thing that I did learn a lot and it was an amazing journey through that through our CIA okay yeah you came back in then at the Easter Easter yes yeah it was it was definitely a big blessing you know there was another retreat one month prior it was the Emmaus way retreat for men so I remember that by that point in time Easter fell on April 20th a year and it amazed way retreat was in March so by that point I was up to almost coming to my Rick in the first reconciliation and it was gonna be the phone week after the retreat well turned out that in the retreat we had my first reconciliation was was early a week earlier and I was like whoa you know I that could really come he caught me off guard a little yeah but it was a blessing to go through that and then on Thursday Holy Thursday the washing of the feet our our CIA class was one of the ones you know we were selected to do the washing of the feet so I mean I couldn't ask for a better welcoming home and obviously April 20th 2014 was my first communion what what would you say then was was there a really hard difficulty coming from out of your world view of Jehovah Witness from the time you were very young to coming into Catholicism what would would you say would have been the hardest barrier to get over for you definitely like I said I mean there was I was I would say there was many barriers you know obviously because I I would say that Jehovah's Witness is probably the one of the biggest antithesis to to Catholicism just because of you know everything all the different beliefs are complete opposite the cross Mary the Saints they're everything Jesus Jesus yeah the the whole truth the Trinity no Trinity so and we could go on and on and on so many things so it was it was it was extremely hard to you know come out of that and like I said I they would have never happened without that true connection I would say with the Eucharist I think that's where that's what sparked everything and this is a good point to our our cath viewers who have friends that are jobless or families of left and they and they would love to reach out to them it isn't really one issue it's a whole world of you yes there's a lot of stuff there that correct brings it all together and at the cord anti-catholic so it becomes a difficult barrier to get over except by the work of grace if you talked that that's yeah that's the only way yeah the grace the courage the Holy Spirit and but it's a amazing thing because now because of that understanding that at least the you know being able to you know maneuver the Bible and like you say there's obviously more you know differences theological and everything as we go through but that thing that was also something that helped me to do my own research as well read the Catechism be involved at our local parish and you know that was that was definitely a big tool as well that yeah it sparks interest it seems like another issue we hinted talked about at 144,000 you know when you die you're gonna be a part of that group are you going to be in this paradise down here what talk of you would about coming to a Catholic understanding of of grace and holiness and salvation well I think you know as far for us as Catholics I think that we really need to be putting there more more emphasis on obviously the sacraments that the church provides to us you know which as well sacraments was also wort that was not in my vocabulary as a Jehovah's Witness but just coming to a full understanding of the faith I think that's extremely powerful once we start not just studying the Bible but also being active our current parish you know you can't be I you know about Catholic and say you know you're a Catholic but you're not even read the word you are not involved in any group or movement at the church you know you need to be active as well and I think that's the portion for Catholics to understand that you know you have to be active in the the church and we have a plethora of of everything we can we have it all we have the fullness of the faith yeah so I think you know understanding through that with the salvation that's yeah there's this I mean the beauty of Christ giving is not merely a book though the Scriptures are infallible and inspired and it's a great gift that we received through the church it gives us the church as the boundaries to help us understand how to live that faith and so we have the extremes of many of our Christian brothers and sisters who think that God did everything for us nothing we can do to take a part of our salvation because he was totally grace totally given and how we live our life is really not as important because it was totally given to us the other extreme which I think Joel witnesses is is you've pretty much got to earn your salvation you got to work hard you got to do all this stuff 90 hours a day right you know whereas the Catholic Church were empowered by grace to live out our selves salvation we're in partnership with Christ we're not doing it on our own but we're empowered by grace to be different wholly to live out our faith exactly and as you said the sacraments are what really are the channel through which you receive Christ into our life and powers of two to live a holy life we have an email Timothy from New York writes but Jehovah Witness was to come to my door now that never happens doesn't mean that was a lot right what do you think would be a good way to engage him and make him reconsider his beliefs do you have any suggestions to start a fruitful conversation great question from Timothy definitely I would say the the first portion to that would as I mentioned before I think we have to create a culture of us as Catholics you know prepare ourselves as well you know you know one of the biggest things that I saw as Jehovah's Witness is that the majority of Catholics that we encounter were not prepared so it was extremely easy to dissuade them because they had never liked open the Bible so you would come with a scripture here you know obviously everything would be already rehearsed but it was you know so I would say the first point would be to you know to prepare yourself in the faith second be courteous so I think that's the other thing we have to be courteous to them pray for them but definitely say you know I would say one of the things you know okay if you invited me to your Kingdom Hall definitely I welcome you as well - you know accompany me to - uh two masks at this time they probably will say no you know 100 percent of the time but you know that at least you can you can be able to be prepared for that they as you said I guess it's strong to say this but are trapped in a worldview that's a very anti-catholic so if they're meeting with you in your home they're coming with this this wall I was thinking of what's one thing that you as a Catholic could say to me if I'm a Java witness with this wall that would make me question that wall a little bit well what is it that I'm not expecting you as a Catholic to say that would I mean what I'm wondering is if you talked about your love for Christ or how God's love for you or is there something that you can think of that really would put a little crack in that wall um we see one of those things I would say probably would have to be that you are active in your faith you know they you know as a Jehovah's Witness you tend to think that that Catholics do not read their Bible that they are not active that it's all just tradition but if you you know by your example I'd say the example is what would definitely would spring up so you can talk about your love for God and your love for Christ your prayer life you can you can show them in Scripture something about the church or about Jesus Christ that gives the impression that yeah you know your faith is that we were talking earlier but you know why would your dad be drawn away back when correct oh yeah yeah definitely and yeah now that I you know we have a excellent relationship with with with my with my my my dad and my mom it's that you know going through their through through their you know examining their life and asking questions like dad you know what you know how was your upbringing upbringing you know how did my grandma my grandfather raised you and trying to go back as first since he was a kid as well I kind of what I found out what I traced is that between you know his childhood to 23 years old which is about that point when he started studying with the Jehovah's Witnesses was that his Catholic life was just you know it wasn't really like I mentioned it you know it was just Catholic by a by name yeah but there was really not you know he was not involved in in a ministry you know heating you know if they went to to church it was because someone was getting married or baptism you know so it was just really you know just going and about so I asked someone's I said have had you read the Bible before the Jehovah's Witnesses came to your door and offered you a Bible study he said no I said well okay so in my head I said how can you not you know obviously what they were going to come and they would even though you know they prepare themselves very well of the Bible I said you really had no basis to defend you know your your your faith you know I practiced this and I have a basis for this in the Bible so I think that was one of them you know and that's one of the biggest things that I see that like I mentioned if you have a Catholic that you know it's until you know they go into apologetics they try to grow in their faith they will never ever be drawn away from the Catholic Church because we have the fullness of the faith yeah and maybe a simple way to encourage Catholics if besides watching EWTN and and using other resources is to have a daily devotional like the Magnificat or something that ties in the scriptures of liturgy that ties in their faith that brings it all together so that on a day-by-day basis there's growing in their faith correctly that's the thing that detectives not just in the Joe of witnesses for other groups that would come and challenge us and if we don't know our faith well then we're susceptible yeah yeah and nowadays with with technology there's so many resources I mean the you know it's it's it's uh there's so many resources out there there's a lot of priests that you know they are strictly into apologetics and that they are you know they're the resources are out there it's just up to us as Catholics to really commit ourselves and say you know and it's not wanting to really fight with them debate you know that and that portion but be able to give a firm answer to it as it says in Scripture and first Peter you know do correct be able to give a reason for the hope exactly that is within us and to do with charity I mean that's as you were saying as in course then another email from Carolyn from Oregon since Jehovah Witnesses have their own translation of the Bible how can we dialogue with them about biblical truths when their version says things so contrary to the truth amazing question I had a feeling that one was going to come up and yeah it's interesting because I remember in their insight book of the scriptures there's a book that they have which pretty much is kind of like a preparation of a theme and you know one of them is obviously Bible and under that I remember you know when I was Jehovah Witness there was a question in that inside book that said how to answer to the to that same question the your Bible is is not accurate and obviously they had a little script on it at all Bibles are the same now that you know I can be able to see this both sides of the coin and you know my preparation I should hope is witnessing and now as a devout Catholic I can definitely see you know where that question comes from and that there's a lot of resources as well out there of you know the Bible translations I would say one is like I said you know do that research the other it would be they have several versions of their Bible so if I think there's one from like 1951 and if you it's really hard to get a hold of those older books but you can definitely be able to see that along the time and I think 1951 1975 84 they've made a few revisions along the revisions there's some Bible verses that have been taken out from the Bible well you know or as we spoke for example with the divinity of Christ you know and then when the New Testament where they where it says Lord they put Jehovah and you know you know so there's a lot of pieces it's it's extremely hard I would say to to convey that to them because they come with a script already made to your door and if you kind of get them out of that script they they say okay you know we'll come back another time so I would say you know definitely prepared but yeah there's definitely a lot of differences between the you know the true Catholic Bible and their own version of the offenders there are those people who whose vocation is to be an apologist to fight the battle some people so that's why they would study to be able to fight the battles for most of us it's so that we know our Lord better I mean that's the reason yes of our faith more faithfully and to understand what we're doing as Catholics so that were more challenged we could say oh this is why we do this and if we do with charity then we open their hearts and many of those coming to the door that have their their canned approach it's really not about truth it's about having the right answer to your question correct and that might even be a way to eventually to dialogue with them and the issue isn't is it just because you can have an answer to my question doesn't mean the answer is true correct you've just you've just put yourself in a position to have an answer for everything exactly but have you found truth yet and hopefully that's right by God's grace we promote your in the count but definitely definitely my friend thank you very thank you very much joining us on the program god bless you might well thank you very much it was a pleasure being here and but you know by the grace I've got that I'm here thank you thank you very much and those of you joining us thank you I prayed that Oscar's journey is an encouragement to you god bless you see you next week [Music] you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 17,037

Rating: 4.8566308 out of 5

Keywords: JHT, JHT01609

Id: k8HP285Q0bI

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 06 2018