Journey Home - 2018-02-05 - Kendra Clark

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program and you know different guests on this program 20 years of guests come from different backgrounds of course and some of the journeys the steps from one tradition into the Catholic Church can be a little easier flowing because of the similarities still barriers to get over a lot of baggage to let go of sometimes hard to let go off butts but some guests have to go through bigger jumps because of where they're coming from not only is the baggage difficult but the barrier is difficult to get over but sometimes the baggage is very difficult to let go of because it's so much a part of one's former tradition and that might be the case tonight as I find out in them as we here together hear the story of our guest tonight Kendra Clark is a former Mormon and Kendra welcome to the program but not that many because I kind of hinted that it's a it's got a lot of barriers and baggage right well especially you know as a female as a mother of four children and a grandmother I mean I think the more entrenched the longer you've been in there of course it can also add to the dynamics of the entire journey so I definitely have a journey to share with you today so thank you it was raised in Southern California right outside of Hollywood in my family of origin is just an incredible family I will say to kind of pin a little bit picky I mean if you want to use the word or term liberal I mean that's just kind of an understatement of the way that I was raised I parents heard more I wouldn't call them gypsies but I would say they're more of the the teaching of Thoroughly are no teachings I really wasn't raised in a religious home at all to even go back a little further before I was even born I have a brother who was five years old it was a that was flying a kite and ran into the street and he was hit by a truck and he had a severe brain injury and of course he was on life support and he wasn't expected to live and because he wasn't expected to live I then was conceived and my parents had a grave arrangement no funeral planned and they took him off life support to pass away and consequently of course I was born my brother survived and so it was a quite a story and so I see I stare that because it really does play a part later on in my journey I have another brother so there's two older brothers and myself and my parents like I mentioned I mean amazing parents very loving very close-knit family but didn't really have or provide much of it no spiritual no even trying to understand what happened your brother or there was no spirit you know my father was raised Catholic his father went to Notre Dame his brother went to Notre Dame but my father had fallen away from the church in fact he had a negative experience and so what my father would share really wasn't positive so there really not only wasn't there just kind of a lukewarm feeling there was an aversion so I didn't really have any opportunity to learn truth about the Catholic faith so it really was just kind of you know and not really spoken of and when it wasn't really wasn't in a positive light my mother however and ended up becoming Mormon and I was about seven or eight years old but even as a young child I remember feeling almost as if I was a spiritual being having having a human experience I just felt maybe possibly because my brother but I just felt very spiritually inclined as a small child I didn't know what religion was it could put your name on my name on it I would find myself I take a little bucket in this little scrub brush and I'd walk to their graves there's a little gravesite or near my home and I'd scrub the little baby graves you know and I my parents would say what are you doing like why don't you spend your Saturday's at a baby grave and I said well because they feel God and they need to you know have a clean grave and you know just that's a childhood thing but I knew as a young child the essence of the Holy Spirit I just didn't really even know it had a name so in looking back it was very interesting my upbringing or my parents would often say to me what did you come from like why are you doing this don't you want to go with your friends and you and get drunk you know they would even suggest that I experienced the things of the world right and and I said well I have a lot of great friends but I don't really want to participate in that so it's really something just within that I just felt inclined to live a life not that I not that I certainly you know I have many flaws and I made many mistakes but I just felt like the path for me was one that was more dreaded by the whole driven by the holy spirit versus the opposites when you look back on on that spiritual presence no you don't see that as something that came as a result of something you may have seen on television or neighbors but really with just a gift of the Spirit within your within your heart waiting to be awakened later in life absolutely it was a gift of the Spirit within the heart I remember as a child asking my neighbors to take me to church or you know begging my parents to take me to church and so sometimes they would sometimes they wouldn't I remember it's a young child I received a book of Mormon because my mom was then baptized naive and I didn't really know much about the Bible but it was a word of Scripture in my young mind and so I was so happy so yes exactly so when you're young your mother becomes more much she became warm and of course she was converted I was about nine years old and she was converted and she became Mormon she was somewhat practicing I mean she would go on a semi-regular makes the neighborhood missionary stop by she continued to have her habits you know no Mormon religion there's no smoking there's no drinking you live the word of wisdom my mother was an amazing woman but she continued to smoke a drink but yet I believe she was converted to the standards of the church in terms of you know the the eternal family the Peraino progression which is another principle of the church and so there is you know some elements that she really felt the dad didn't follow her not at all he didn't at all he chose to just support her from afar he's you know an incredible man but he he's a very loving man but he doesn't really yeah and then you and your brothers didn't follow her right away I did my brothers didn't my special needs brother is now you know doing very well he's still a five year old in fact he's almost 60 today and he's still a five year old so he's an angel and my other brother chose not to live you know he's a normal traditional typical adolescent boy behavior but I would go to church with my mom mm-hmm yeah and I know as a child I wasn't hot you know the doctrine of the church but of course you have friends in the church in Southern California it wasn't a large group of people that really you know wasn't the majority of my neighbors would be Mormon but there was a few that I would you know go to church with yeah so he's a young girl you were going with your mother you didn't understand the faith very well she didn't understand that this Mormon Church you were going to was considered radically different than the other churches in town exactly that's correct it was a church it was a place to go and pray it was a place for me to at least feel more home in a spiritual element than I did even in my own home so I felt that that was where I would want to spend my Sunday's and then I was accepted to Brigham Young University so so turn important probably Utah and that's really what I considered my conversion to begin because if you know anything about Brigham Young University I mean it's just it's it's a LVS of course latter-day Saint sponsored private University and so they have very strict guidelines and you live according to a very strict moral code and for me that was very compatible I mean that was something that I really was attracted to in fact I went to UCLA and Brigham Young and I'd always find myself wanting to go back to Brigham Young because it's a good fit intrinsically that's where I felt like it was a better fit for me but that's where I really really became influenced on a deeper level the religion classes weren't about the Bible they were about the Book of Mormon the pearl of great price and there are additional scriptures so that's where then felt the bubble became smaller and smaller and smaller in terms of I lost more of what maybe the other religions might have to offer in just the small bubble of what the LDS religion indoctrinated me really to accept and that was really my conversion at Brigham Young University often we get the impression those of us have never had any experience with the Mormon Church directly that there's layers of understanding amongst the membership some have a more peripheral understanding and then as you get deeper and deeper you get to know more deeply some of these teachings that those on the outside don't know but almost a privilege to understand is that true from your experience Marcus that's absolutely true and it's it's very interesting you say that because I would have to admit that as many years about thirty five years that I was an active temple going Mormon mother I feel that as active as I was I was so busy with all of the things I was doing I didn't have the full understanding of some of the deeper core principles that really resonate in the church I didn't really understand that until I was an adult because when I was at Brigham Young I was very busy in my studies and of course we're encouraged to get married which I did in the temple then of course three weeks later I was pregnant so I was I was doing you know what I was called to do as a Mormon wife and a mother and then of course as I started to have babies and it was just very busy so for me it was more on autopilot I would have to say for about 25 years although that all of autopilot consisted of you know certainly daily you know church and of course temple going and and all the callings and associated relationships and whatnot as you look back to that time very busy living by what you understand of Mormonism getting having children family was was again looking back on it was your understanding of Jesus Christ and scripture very similar to other you know non-mormon Christian churches was it was very simple at that time I didn't know any other non-mormon churches I really you know didn't understand that the doctrine associated with those those faith-based systems however I I didn't really think at the time it was very foreign because living in Utah it's what everybody does you know Sundays which is which is a beautiful expression of obedience you know the Sabbath day is kept holy but in terms of some of the the unusual doctrine meaning we will someday be gods we will some day you know men can have multiple wives in heaven if we progress as we should then of course we will obtain the celestial kingdom which is the highest degree of glory and the only way that we can do that it certainly be an active temple going full tithe paying Mormon in married in the church and so those things were not foreign to me simply because it was our almost like a different language and it's hard to convey in words the I don't want to use the term brainwashing because that that is not what I mean but it's it's simply a way of the indoctrination that that happens it's it's difficult to explain how that happens but yet you can be very intellectual and successful and live in the world but yet still believe that and I did I mean I truly did and it isn't until now I can see with clear lenses how it is which we'll discuss in a moment but yeah I guess is kind of Clarke I hate to use words like brainwashing or in even inbreeding because of the negative connotation but given that and wanting to not be offensive that that there is this very closed environment under which you don't have very many contacts outside and so you're taught a certain way then there are especially in the Mormon world I'm assuming from what I've heard of guests and my reading is that all aspects of your lifestyle are being honed to prepare you for as you talk about godhood one of which is I'm guessing this even that many of the the personal planners mm-hmm exactly are really an outcome of the theology of Mormon is a business true everything everything it's interesting because I think that certainly you know those early pioneer traditions and early doctrine of Joseph Smith who's the founder of the LDS faith the Prophet if you will those beliefs really aren't taught as mainstream Dogma in in the in Sunday school they are even taught when those scenarios come to talk to you about the discussions those are kind of I don't want to say they're pushed under the rug but they're not is celebrated they are ever-present and they are alive but they're not discussed actively so it really takes people to have more of a tabletop discussion about what it is or really opening up scripture scripture and or the articles of faith which really do teach and educate the members if they if they choose to dig further and certainly and we'll talk about later in our discussion it's you know my transition started out of Mormonism but very simple in a very basic understanding of what I didn't believe but all those different ingredients into this big recipe that I accepted for many years for three decades yes weren't actively taught in fact there's been times that I've talked to missionaries since I've left the church and I just would say you know I'm just a Christian woman I didn't say anything about my background being a war and I would ask them these questions and they would circumvent the the actual question to to kind of tie in a very superficial explanation of how families can be together forever what's like kind of sugarcoating it would I want to go no but I was told this and then they kind of segue into something that was you know 15 layers you know type figure so it is it's just one of those it's a reality and it's it's yeah so you're a mom with children and out of college then so how does it progressed yes so my I four children I have two sons and two daughters and I was a new Tom and what happened was living my life I went to medical school the University of Utah in Salt Lake City and at that time with four children of course I was extremely busy so I lived in a town called Ogden which is about an hour and a half north of Salt Lake City so commuting to the medical school every day if you can imagine my days were completely full consequently I had to distance myself somewhat from my not so much my Sunday worship but from my callings and so what happened was when I was in my medical training the years that I was training I didn't really have a chance to hello should say I had a chance to remove myself from the church on some level and so then when I would return on Sunday there was a there was a pivotal moment where when I would return to church on Sunday I was craving just discussion and dialogue on my Savior Jesus Christ and when I would go to what is called early society which is where the women meet for one our church is really comprised of three hours we have we have a group meeting which is similar to our new type of mass or sacrament then we have sunday-school that we have a group women's meeting which is Coverley Society and during that time I remember going week after week after week craving just a discussion on Jesus Christ and I didn't receive it it would be on everything peripheral and I'm not saying Jesus Christ the you know didn't come up in the lesson on some level but it wasn't focused on Jesus Christ it was focused on say the Nauvoo temple or the tithing or Joseph Smith or something else but I I wasn't really receiving the essence of the foundation of what I felt I needed in my life and when when you talk even at that point Jesus Christ was your understanding of Christ the way we understand him as their not not at all Jesus Christ in the Mormon understanding is simply our brother is a literal son of our of our God and Lucifer is his brother as well and so it really is a completely different Jesus Christ and so the character of Christ is different the makeup of Christ is different although my relationship with Christ now it's it's a lot more robust and rich however back in my mormon days it was still very rich because that's what i had and i so but again it was a different character and it was a different understanding in a different acceptance because as mormons of course they believe that they too one day if living according to the principles of Mormonism they to some day can become a god and so it negates so much of what the truth really is and that understanding really can now I see it's skewed Fiala juice is close but but not accurate very close I have been there listen to a commercial about another TV show I think called Lucifer I've never watched the program but I think it's about that in the commercial somebody says thank God and the Lucifer character and you can see detective who's dead why are you getting all the credit and it made me wonder I wonder if that program has has Mormon theology behind it because we would not consider a fallen angel talking about God as father in that sense but that's really where Mormons come from our Lord Jesus and Satan are really human sons absolutely for is in I don't want to say equal to Jesus Christ but in the term in the sense that before he was cast out of heaven with with the hosts of heaven he was a very righteous or at least said a brother of Jesus Christ and so it's that's where it's hot and so that you know are really close but in again if you don't have Joseph Smith's original interpretation of it those down the line from urine and are not going to actually pick up the differences so there you are going to medical school right and you have a hunger for Jesus yes and it's just you know that time when I went to church I just really didn't have a lot of time to really delve into a lot of the other doctrine but I wanted to be fed spiritually by the basics I mean my relationship with Jesus Christ and my Heavenly Father and and so that really that's what it boiled down to and I remember it was about two weeks before Christmas and I went to church okay surely the lesson will be on Jesus Christ I am days away from Christmas I'm expecting hopefully you know to have a lesson on his birth and I remember sitting in the lesson it was not it was on the Nauvoo temple and I remember going to my car and I thought how I was so discouraged and then what happened was I decided to unfortunately the next two years I had to live a completely double life my son was repairing to go on a Mormon mission and he was called to Poland and about a year before that I decided to drop my kids off at church get them settled in church I had the Mormon Bible I then would change Bibles in the car I would leave change Bibles go to a Christian Church I would worship for an hour the way that I wanted to worship and felt like it was consistent with my belief system and then before they were out of their classes I would go back to the Mormon Church and with tears in my eyes because I was so just realizing that oh my gosh I cannot continue this that there must be a break and how in the world am I going to make that break my son is going is preparing to go to Poland on his mission and I'm living this double life for two years I did that drop the kids off got in the car where to the Christian Church the Catholic religion was not even on my radar but at least in the Christian Church I praised his name what kind of it was a non-denominational what it was focused on Christ and then that go back change Bible are you discerning the differences on what you were hearing in this church and what you weren't hearing very much I felt like in the Christian Church it was so it was it was correct for me I mean it was more correct than what I'm doing for the last thirty years and so I would just feast on worshiping my Lord in this Christian Church and then I'd have to get back and hurry and that I'd sit in the Mormon sacrament meeting which is the group setting and I'd literally have tears running down my cheeks because I knew that the end had to be in sight and I didn't know how or when I could pull it off but knowing my son was going to Poland my oldest son I did not want anybody to be influenced by that so did your husband know about he did my husband likewise felt he supported my decision and he in fact led the way so we both decided to leave after our son went to Poland on a mission and so we then was we're very prayerful about it it was very difficult it's it's very hard to describe how challenging it is because remember in the Mormon religion were taught that those who leave will never obtain exaltation in fact they will be cast out and so that's something that we struggled with and for several years after leaving I continued to struggle with that because it's just not like I flip a switch and I'm like oh I don't believe that I mean I really felt that I was leaving the church knowing that my salvation was at stake however I had to have faith and trust that I was being led out versus leaving with this spirit of animosity I it was that's a hard thing it was very difficult kind of the opening as I maybe anticipated what was going to be here is that there's barriers to get over but there's also this baggage so much bad baggage of and maybe our audience doesn't realize it that the Mormon Church down the road the people there believe that they're going to become gods I'm not sure I'm saying it right but that if they left that church they're giving all that up absolutely right and giving up the opportunity through families forever because their families are the celestial kingdom and not not only that their celestial terrestrial and Telus George to the three degrees of glory they call it and then there's a tower doc darkness or people that leave go to out our darkness so I will not be able to be with my Lord my family so this is it was bigger than I can express in words but I had to go on faith I had to go on and both you and your husband were on the same page with this we were we were on the same page and he asked to have his name removed from the records of the church so he was firm completely when upset firm when my son the transition out clearly was when my son now in Poland serving a mission six months into his mission we receive a phone call and he's like your mom remember the the more the missionaries can't call but three times a year so this is when the one the times he could call with Mother's Day and he said mom he said I'm struggling as a missionary he said I am surrounded by Catholic families that he said the quote they have it figured out end quote and he says I don't know what I'm gonna do because I love what I'm hearing from my Polish Catholic families and at the time all I knew was what my father had told me I said that is incredible I said Austin pray about it think about what you're doing pray about it I supports you if you need to come home you are always welcome here of course to come home and we support a decision so long story short as he did come home from his Mormon mission difficult for his mission president difficult for his friends difficult for the people in our ward but his parents were very supportive and he did come home and then when he arrived home we were about to leave for Arizona this is in 2010 so we were prepared to move to Arizona from Utah which was a nice time because that gave us a kind of a break to start fresh because there is some relationships that they didn't understand what are they doing what's going on what's that families leaving so there's a lot of you know angst about our family and when you said your ward that's like Perry cherish exactly yeah you and your husband decided to make the break you're no longer attending all right the ward meetings and your son comes back and he's not welcome so it's a brand new start from the brand new start and we can then start fresh in a non-denominational Church and worshipping Jesus with you know our full heart in our mind and our time and which we thought at the time I've liked I didn't go into heaven I mean this is exactly what I felt like my Jesus look like even though it especially your husband and you and yours all your children we all ready to go okay turns out that's time for a break there we are you need a break from Utah you've made and you're involved with a non-denominational Christian Church and but the main reason was an intimacy with Jesus that's all right well this pause right there Kendra and we'll come right back in a moment pick up on the rest of the story [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home I'm your host Marcus Grodi and our guest tonight is Kendra Clark and I've interrupted you in the midst of this journey your own family as I think a Brigham's young journey from this part of the world out there where you've gone on a journey from Utah down to Arizona and you're breaking with family and friends the next tough it's tough those relationships are solid relationships and those relationships we cherish and it's it's I love the Mormon people and I love what they stand for in their hearts they're hard-working beautiful virtuous people and and it's very challenging to you know to make that break for so many reasons to write what's true is true so there are things in Mormonism that are true not true because they're Mormonism but because they got it right on this with that family exactly right you know that we share that are that are there at the core of that is conscience that it's fed by God's grace so you know no it is an altered works and service I mean yeah yeah but I at the end of the day you know my allegiance is to God in my Legion sistah truth and so whatever sacrifices I needed to make I was willing to make in complete faith not understanding or knowing at all where I would eventually land in terms of my faith but I did know that the Jesus that I was worshiping in the nondenominational church was really more consistent with the Jesus that I intrinsically knew as a spiritual being and so some real challenging things happened when I moved to Arizona my mother took her life at the time that I left for Arizona and it was very difficult for me and my husband when we moved to Arizona he had left the marriage and so I had lost my mother and my husband had left and my two of my oldest children had gone off to college and so here I was in Arizona grieving my mother and grameen my marriage of over 22 years very very difficult time for me and so and I was working in a very demanding job at the time with children and neurosurgery so it was very stressful for me so I was really broken on so many levels however I I would just I told myself you know Kendra don't look to the left and don't look to the right just look at the cross just look at the cross and and I just continue to remain faithful in my commitment to my Savior and going to church every weekend and just giving my life to my my Heavenly Father and my Savior and I just felt like I didn't really understand what was happening and why I had such grief in my life but I wasn't about to give that that up even though I didn't have a definition of what my faith religion necessarily but I wasn't about to give up my my guidance from my Heavenly Father in my savior's so it was very interesting because when I first moved there I had I kept seeing this man at different places I saw this man at the airport and a pilot outfit and I saw the same man at the gym and I I saw this man same man all these different places and I finally was physically ran into this man it's a gym and I looked up at my side I just saw you at the airport like are you a pilot and I saw you in this outfit he said I I'm a pilot and I didn't uniform not an outfit but anyhow long story short he was going to be my landlord because I needed to find a place to live because my family you know was splitting up and he became my my dearest friend his name is John and John is Catholic and I also ran into other two best friends of mine female friends that were also Catholic and so I just ended up rubbing shoulders with Catholic people random Catholic people and why I had no idea at the time now I do but at the time I thought wow these are great people I think what I'll do is knowing that you know my father was Catholic my grandfather was Catholic my dear friend John's Catholic I'm gonna I'm gonna actually go learn about the Catholic Church I have no intention at all of joining the church because of the time I was relatively happy with the not the nondenominational church the only issue I had is they had a lot of rock-and-roll worship which for me I prefer more formal worship I prefer more tradition but I mean I couldn't have it all right so so that's that's really where I was on this John friend of mine was 51 years old never married no children you know and I thought wow that's kind of unusual but he became my rock and I eventually married John and he's a wonderful man and I couldn't be happier we you know we could certainly got married about two years later and he did not encourage me to go to the Catholic Church he is an incredible man of faith but being a pilot commercial pilot he was gone on the weekends often so he didn't I really don't think he knew with a parish but my girlfriends suggested I look into our CIA and so I thought well but let's you know if nothing else all not necessarily prove inadequacies but I'll check the box off that maybe it's not right for me because I again I was open to where where is right for me but the Catholic of course was the Catholic religion is very well known and I thought well I might as well start with the largest church and then go from there and so in our CIA that's really I attended to kind of like scrutinize it you know with the spirit you're often non-denominational churches are not so much going to be anti-catholic but might be anti that any particular church makes a difference as long as you got your faith right right you know I'm saying that so the idea that you would leave the nondenominational to become a Catholic why would you do that as long as you've got because we've got all this talk about baggage from a non-denominational standpoint all the quote the Catholics have accepted with Jesus why would you want to do that so that might be the barrier that would prevent you from moving forward well really actually instead of a barrier I was drawn to it because of the Eucharist not knowing a whole lot about the Eucharist the Lord's Supper at all in the Mormon faith there was there was a sacrament so we took the bread and water but it didn't have the same the same significance it was a symbol but it wasn't clearly the body of Jesus but I I really did want a weekly something or something to take to remember my lord and in the non-denominational Church it would be kind of a haphazard you know occurrence every so often but for me knowing that the Catholics take something on Sunday really was this is great I don't really know what it is but I think that every week at least it'll give me time to reflect on my Savior little did I know the significance of the Eucharist until I went to our CIA so when I went to our CIA I was just like I had so many questions I think I drove my mentor crazy because I would email him every week of that I mean I'm talking a lot of questions because I was a researcher I had to understand it but yet I most importantly wanted to be led by the spirit and and I was led by the spirit every time I had a question and every answer I received just validated what I thought was true not that I had a great I wasn't a scriptorium by any stretch of the imagination but validated intrinsically my spiritual nature it was true so it was amazing because I didn't expect it at all so it was it wasn't how long was the journey then to come to entering into the church well it was about a two-year journey it was about a two-year journey and then I decided to be confirmed and of course I was confirmed the Easter Vigil and then my husband now he was I guess I better learn about the church because it's a cradle Catholic and the questions I would ask him he didn't have an answer to because really you got a job takes you away from Sunday Oliver he's such an amazing man with incredible impeccable character but again it's the little things that he didn't really remember throughout the years and so I kind of said hey let's cut it you know step up I have a lot of questions so some between the two of us it's been fun learning together and now since of course I've been in the church we go every week when he's in town you know we go together as a couple and it's been a beautiful experience I was think about some of the unique Mormon theologies that are close but no cigar as you would say to Catholic theology one of which is the demonization of the Mormon understanding and I'm not expecting to be a theologian Kendra but have you dealt with that issue understanding the unique difference between the Mormon understanding of becoming God's in our Catholic understanding of demonization right exactly it is so different because of course they don't have that Trinitarian viewpoint and when Jesus Christ is a brother to Lucifer but yet in the Godhead but you had a separate person but yet a god it's very difficult to understand the Godhead and so for me now in my understanding of the Godhead or the Trinity it's there all forever they're their eternal but yet it's interesting just just in creating creation if just take an element of creation where in the Mormon perspective God created the universe kind of reorganized matter if you will because remember being God's we have always been God's will always be God's and there's other gods and so so in in my my understanding now that isn't the case it was all created from our one God and so it's so different it's just wrapping my head around it and Lucifer not being the brother of our Lord but being a created angel yeah Lord isn't created but forever is a created angel who fell and rejected God but our Lord Jesus is one aspect of the Trinity introduced a mystery and we recognize the mysterious aspect of that but the unity of the Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit which would be radically different than the Mormon understanding of that what parallels did you find in your Mormon background to a Catholic Church it's a great question yeah in the people in their hearts I think it's been so nice to see that people are doing the best that they can I think that even those in the Mormon faith that may not believe it all they oftentimes they stay in because the fallout is too great they have great hearts they have a yearning to do the right thing for the right reasons and that's very consistent with those in my parish that they try to do their very best and they try to live the commandments of course and so I think that that's been that's been nice in terms of in terms of doctrine I mean it's different I you know it's I haven't really thought of the similarities because right now I'm kind of feasting on the differences and you know when I think of simulators of course I mean like family and as you mentioned Worley charity and you know those aspects of living not Scripture I mean they wouldn't take scripture very seriously but then now we get to the danger of you have scripture but how do we interpret it what is the the guide through which you look at Scripture and of course the Mormons would be through the lenses of how Joseph Smith put it together in the Book of Mormon we would look at it through the authority of the church at our Lord established and talk about that a little bit I mean within Mormonism it goes through changes of doctrine over the years yes and who decides where's the authority on that I know that it changes the issue of marriage and polygamy and also the way it treated black rocks and the priesthood absolutely 70s certainly yeah and so the Mormons believe that the living prophet is a seer and Revelator and and has the authority to act as a living prophet and so the Mormons believe that since the day of Joseph Smith there has always been a living prophet on the earth who has the discernment and the governing powers to make these changes according to however he feels he is prompted by God and so in looking back like you mentioned blacks and the priesthood where as what at one point in time it was you know the sign of Cain it was the Mark of Cain which back in the Book of Mormon was you know was not it was not one that you know as a mark so essentially it was looked on less than and so it definitely has has changed throughout the years and even the fact that how the church was founded I mean church was founded because of the the truthfulness of the gospel was taken from the earth you know in the dark ages because the the unrighteous you know the wicked hopes of what not had had forced you know that church to be you know taken so that's the that's the beginning of Mormonism so I mean there's really it's it's very convoluted on so many levels but but looking at it from the lenses of Mormonism it's been interesting to see it now as I've been out of it to where everything makes sense if you will because it's a story right and so it makes sense and it's a very attractive story especially for those who might be in a place in their life that may be struggling for whether a divorce or a death or loss or new marriage where they're vulnerable and so this is very enticing to hear that our families can be together forever and you know that the store the the early discussions when the missionaries are very benign and it really draws them in and they don't even cover the the realities of the early prophets the early teachings of the church that are still that are still valid today so seems to me that at least different branches of the Mormon Church today are trying to appear more and more normal Christian right would you say that that's true it's absolutely true and back to my brother my special needs brother who my parents my father had passed away several years ago so now he's I'm he's my responsibility my privilege and one of the other areas that really was very challenging for me to accept was the fact that my brother my perfect angel brother couldn't be in heaven because he wasn't Mormon and so that was a struggle for me because you know I thought we clearly I just don't think we're really good enough to make I just don't you know I'm a mere mortal you know I I just I just don't think that really makes sense that I could earn my way to heaven and I certainly don't think it makes sense my angel brother who is truly an innocent child how could he not and I know that they have that practice where they baptize those that have passed away but I had a difficult time reconciling that unless you're Mormon that you cannot obtain exaltation with with God and so as much as I lived it and I was an active Temple goer and I and I still I still respect those those very sacred practices and promises that I made in the temple I respect those and I don't repeat those and I revere those out of respect for the church it was a challenge for me to reconcile that it's very difficult for me to reconcile that I just don't think my God would say you can't come in or you can't come in because of what you did so or didn't do especially if it was not his fault at all yeah and all the mental aspect you're I don't know the background so your son that was a missionary did you came in and everything and my so my son we went to the Catholic Church together he loves the Catholic faith and so we would attend consistently he is now he is in his training to be a f-18 fighter pilot for the Navy so he is a pilot for the Navy what happened he met a lovely girl in college had a football scholarship in Utah and he met a lovely girl in college and Utah who's Mormon and he has decided to get married in the Mormon temple and he recently got married in the Ogden temple with her in August and so he has chosen to go back to the Mormon faith he has great reverence for the Catholic faith in fact he oftentimes will say when I'm visiting you mom were going to the Catholic Church so he is a wonderful wonderful obedient faithful believer and he has a dear wife and I support him 100% he understands what I believe and he respects it and I respect him and what mother wouldn't want a child to be active in a strong faith faith based you know belief I mean I have such great respect for him and know that you know if and when you know the Holy Spirit pumps him he will act accordingly and I have to let would you help Catholic viewers who's maybe don't know their faith as well as they ought to and maybe their children don't know the faith as they ought to how would you help them resist the missionaries that stop on their door and have a very Christian sounding message sure I I in living my my life from my fifties right now and I've lived on both ends I would say really I say maybe instead of resisting a relationship with the missionaries I would say embrace a relationship with the missionaries on on the terms of allowing them to hear your your testimony because of course they're there to proselyte and to share what they have and I would say come in let me you know I would certainly I'll give you a moment to share it but allow me then to share and then understand kind of see where their radar is you know if they are you know hey I'm sorry I don't really have time to listen to your story but I'm here to give you a Book of Mormon then I would suggest say you know if you're gonna leave a book of Mormon then please allow me to leave maybe some literature with you not that I'm here to convert you necessarily but I just want you to understand where I'm coming from and how then that would be I think a healthy dialogue so that they understand other than of course what they're there to teach and I think that that builds relationships and that's I think what our Heavenly Father our God our Savior would want us to do in terms of rather than maybe deny a relationship then maybe have a fruitful relationship that could only maybe plant a seed in these and young missionaries at some point because my son if I if my son wasn't welcomed into these Catholic families my son would never know about the Catholic faith and look what it's done to his old mama got an email from Chad from Wisconsin asked a question that's kind of connected what do you think are some poignant questions to ask a Mormon to get their get them to reconsider their believes to be open to dialogue yeah that's a great question I think just to have them tell their story and kind of I think seek first to understand and then of course to comment so I would actually have them tell their story of their family have them tell their story of their testimony correct that well you can understand where they're coming from because if they're from Utah and they know nothing about other faiths than of course it gives you an the opportunity to ask the right questions then for example save it from New York City and they were raised Presbyterian and they are new convert to the Mormon Church then of course you have a different question so I would say first listen to understand where they're coming from because not all Mormon missionaries are from Utah many missionaries have very diverse histories and I would say first listen and I believe the Holy Spirit will prompt you to ask the questions that are specific to that particular individual whether they're female or male and I think you're also subtly encouraging the Catholic to know their faiths pretty well to learn their faith a little better and be prayerful be prayer for the Holy Spirit he will guide okay Tricia from PA writes from what I know Mormons seem to have such a great support structure and wholesome family environment I'm considered joining the Mormon Church so my family and I benefit from all they have to offer though of course I've heard negative things about Mormonism and so I'm not quite sure what to do what's your encouragement to Tricia well certainly the Mormons do have that strong faith-based family based system I would encourage Tricia to really consider Catholicism because I've lived in both and we have that robust solid integrative framework that allows families to worship together that has that strong Family Foundation that believes that the family is a strong vibrant Network and those relationships are to be nurtured so I would say just maybe attend RCIA or look on a proper and appropriate Internet web page your web page or Catholic Answers is where I received many of my answers and even in Catholic Answers and you can really see a lot of Mormons of course share their testimonies and you can then contrast and compare but I would say let's just wait and give Catholic answers a try or gives you no visit with some families in the parish that really have a strong family network and then allow the Holy Spirit to guide you but I would suggest this you travel like we mentioned earlier truth is truth so when we see the strong family network in a Mormon Church it can be enticing if we're ever coming it isn't as strong as it ought to be that's right but that could be true in a lot of different religions and faces so that doesn't make that faith authentic just because they got something right there as you said number one let's look at what the church really teaches about family there's no there's no religion out there that is as deeply committed to the family to the human person to the value of life as the Catholic being so we got to recognize the truth of that the second we gotta start living it so that our families and our marriages and our relationships are good models of that absolutely for all to see so again let's say and it happens sometimes that a Mormon might be watching right now maybe one minute to go but you just say that Mormon there's one last word to encourage the Catholic faith you know in the beginning it seems like there's many reasons not not to leave because it's it's real it's tangible we have a relationship you're gonna hurt feelings it's gonna it's difficult but I would just say keep your eye focused on the cross keep your eye focused on your Savior because he will lead you out to truth he will help you find truth and at the end of the day there's really nothing else that matters because all of those other peripheral reasons are why we're here on earth we are here to worship our Lord and Savior we are here to give glory to Him and the way to do that is to do it through truth and that's what got me through the clouds and I lived in the clouds for a very long time until I finally came home when I was when I was confirmed and there's clouds but you just have to hold on and know that by faith you will make it you will make it so all right Kendra you very much for joining us on the program and sharing your journey god bless you and yours and continued journey and as a caretaker of your of your brother thank you perfect especially and unique challenges that that offer and and also for your own witness I do want to tell the audience that Kendra's written story is on our website if you go to this w w CH network org that's the website for the coming on the network you can read her whole story written out as well as here the journey home program so Thank You Kendra and thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I do pray that Kendra's journey is an encouragement to you god bless you next week [Music]

Channel: EWTN

Views: 30,870

Rating: 4.8134112 out of 5

Keywords: JHT, JHT01602

Id: MB7K-ChNt6Q

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 05 2018