Joe Rogan | Artificially Intelligent Machines Will be the Ruin of Man w/Annie Jacobsen

the Joe Rogan experience what if any research have you done on artificial intelligence and robotics and autonomous weapons and the the future of warfare which a lot of people think it's going to be like what we're seeing now in Yemen with drones that we're gonna be seeing that with robots on the ground and that this would be the future huge amount for the book that I wrote called the Pentagon's brain mm-hmm really impactful moment was going to Los Alamos when I went there to meet a DARPA scientist who was working on an artificial brain for DARPA I mean this stuff is way on the physical brain trying to create a system you know a free-thinking system and what his name is Garrett Kenyon what he told me was just utterly fascinating because again that human thing I'm always after it's like what are you doing I mean leave the science you've had lots of guys on here I'll talk to you about the high-technology elements but I'm interested in who's doing that who's creating that science and why and he said to me this is like like where artificial intelligence is right now with scientists who are really looking into this it's like Magellan you know like who will discover the new world but on the on the idea of frightening artificial intelligence he told me an interesting story about his daughter and he said people seem to think like you know facial recognition software is like telling us that were one step away from AI true AI and he said if if he was he showed me on his iPhone this was a couple years ago and he how much trouble the iPhone had recognizing him like if he put a hat on or if he made a funny face and he said my daughter can recognize me from across a baseball field you know if I have a hat on just by the way I walk right and he said if she if she couldn't there would be something really wrong with her in other words her human recognition abilities are truly intelligent and that is a system of systems a biological system of systems that no scientist has you know the algorithm for which no one has ever able been able to figure out yet hmm and he believes that we're far away from that but the Defense Department on the other hand is moving us in that direction and absolutely wants autonomous weapons to be fighting wars look there was a program that said I quote this in the book it says the the battle place is no place for humans so drones are the way of the future right but there used to kill people which and which also means that the enemy is creating drones in stores and pretty soon that's gonna be a big a big issue yeah that's the big fear the big fear is that they're gonna be the first ones to implement it I mean what scares you about AI everything DARPA thinks AI could help troops telepathically control machines of course they do and they probably can I mean they've already got cursors that people can move around that are paraplegic they can move them around with their mind in their eyes yeah I think there's going to be quite a few of those things what is they just and this is called the synapse this is a I'll read this thing that's though DARPA funded program to develop electronic neuromorphic machine technology that scales to biological levels more simply stated it is an attempt to build a new kind of computer with similar form and function to the mammalian brain such artificial brains would be used to build robots whose intelligence matches that of mice and cats Jesus Christ robot cats robot cats coming to get us well they created something called the the Robo rat that was the first bio-hybrid right so a bio hybrid is when you mix animal on a machine and DARPA was doing that right before 9/11 and people freaked out they were like you cannot put brain chips and rats and make them move through a maze by a you know remote control which was what they were doing and I interviewed the guys who were all working on this program before 9/11 and so the the the morality of the of the citizenry was like no then 9/11 happened and suddenly all this money got pumped into DARPA to do anything they wanted the morality is she went out the window and they started creating all kinds of bio hybrids as I write in the Pentagon's brain so they put they now have pigeons that are mixed you know animal and machine they created something called there's a moth so there's a man Ditka Sexton moth that's what it's called a large moth and scienter Powe scientists put brain chips into the larvae okay so that when it cocoon dand became a flying moth it had the the chip built into its system making it easier to integrate and they could fly the moth around the lab and that was a huge step and this is now four years ago that I was interviewing these scientists did you see any of this stuff I didn't see them off but I I told you I saw that the the limb regeneration lab was a trip and this is also what we're going on there well they were just cutting limbs off of salamanders and watching the limbs grow back right and examining that and saying well if the salamander can do this so can we one day and I said to them but wait that's impossible you know and they said well it's not actually because humans have they broke I'll of scientists who break it down into terms I can understand it's like what Elon Musk did you know yeah right cuz and they said to me you were once a single cell in your mother's womb and then you were too and then you were you know right mmm so you can regenerate and that's their premise I mean these are the tops on the world's top scientists in regeneration what is this Jamie it's the moth being stimulated by electro currents and it's abdomen so the stimulation of the electro currents they can cause it to go left or right is that it yeah I just looking up these bio-hybrid moths what was the thing that you threw your hands on I've had like you're freaking out Macaulay Culkin at home alone this is reading something anyway yeah I typed it was I started typing bio-hybrid stuff and this is the first thing that popped up was this shrimp article yeah it says they're gonna test them through Olympic themed events oh my God look at this DARPA MTO seeks innovative proposals for the development of micro to milli insects scale robotic technology shrimp where develop will develop okay so shrimp is the an acronym love and acronyms will develop and demonstrate through a series of Olympic themed events multifunctional mm 2cm scale robotic platforms so I guess that's millimeter or centimeter scale robotic platforms with a focus on untethered mobility maneuverability and dexterity to achieve this goal shrimp will also provide foundational research in the area of micro actual actuator materials and enter energy efficient power systems for extremely Swap capital letter S capital level W lowercase a capital P constrained microbiotic systems expect as such advances will be enabling for applications including search and rescue yeah right search and rescue disaster relief yeah we're gonna help people hazardous environment inspection or killing [ __ ] with a with an evil nuclear be always the search being that goes in your mouth and blows up [ __ ] that's crazy I mean they do all kinds of planning for the future yeah the search and rescue thing is a it's a great sort of you know way in which to present DARPA that's doing all this great stuff I interviewed DARPA scientists who said look Annie we've got we're able to send robots into Fukushima to twist the cores you know right and and yes that is great but that's far from the only thing yes yeah well yeah but here's a trip you want to hear I mean it gets there our rabbit holes there because I sourced all these documents and also interviewed generals at the Pentagon who we don't like AI we want like we want this we want our guys on the ground you know we they believe in the human the warrior that concept and so that the generals were very opposed with the that DARPA took a vote and it was like no AI we want humans in the mix and so what did DARPA start doing and they are the generals they said why don't you why can't we go more autonomous and the answer was we don't trust the machines okay so right around that same time what a DARPA start doing it started looking into and hiring scientists who were working with how trust works in the brain specifically with what is called the moral molecule and it's this molecule in the brain that mothers emit when they're breastfeeding okay oxytocin yes so think about that and I mean that's like the ultimate going way back biology like you have to have a mother a trusting mother to breastfeed in you know pre history or otherwise you'd be eaten by you'd be like this is a bad idea I'm stopping to do this I'm gonna die right right so they examined that molecule the brains moral molecule and they began a program to work with that to be able to give that to soldiers so that they're that they trusted AI machines and that's where I think you're getting into really spooky dark multi levels of manipulation about what humans want versus what the Pentagon wants Wow the worry about trusting the Machine scares the [ __ ] out of me because that's what everyone's worried about when it comes to AI like that's what Elon Musk keeps warning people about that these things are gonna have superhuman capabilities and they're gonna be sentient and it's a matter of when absolutely so III as the journalist said to myself we'll wait a minute if the generals at the Pentagon and I'm you know that's a that's a euphemism but the meaning that the actual opera you know the guys that are in charge here don't want that who does want this and where my research took me to was the group that wants that is what's called the defense Science Board those are the individuals who are counseling the Pentagon in the manner in which they should proceed and now those individuals are all sitting on the boards of the defense contractors so you can really see how money drives the rubric the generals don't want it the humans don't want it but guess who does the people who stand to make the money creating the autonomous systems and that's exactly what Eisenhower warned us of hmm in his farewell speech you know the military-industrial complex and the other part of that speech which people don't don't know as well is that what he said his antidote eisenhower said this the antidote to the military-industrial complex is an alert and knowledgeable citizenry it's why I write my books mm-hmm because an alert and knowledgeable citizenry has the ability to kind of push back and go but we don't want that I think what we're worried about is Pandora's box right with it when it comes to AI and we're worried that first of all if we're not the ones to open it what if they open it all right what if the Chinese open it no and obviously their technology is super super advanced I mean they're electronic technology particular their cell phones are cutting-edge I mean Apple and all these other companies are struggling to try to keep up with Huawei and these 1fc are one what is the [ __ ] one st what is that one what is that big company that they just released some they've just hired Robert Downey jr. to they gave him millions of dollars to on one plus ya one plus seven they have this new phone that doesn't have a front facing camera you press a button it slides out of the top they figured out a way to make it the entire phone all screen and they're incredibly advanced in terms of their electronics we deeply are concerned that they're gonna be the ones that implement military autonomous sentient robotics before we do because then you can essentially you can launch them with no physical human cost on your side and I mean they they're literally weapons of mass destruction if you have robots I can go over there and just kill people and and what they need for that is the world's fastest supercomputer right and what's interesting is that we just we Americans overtook the Chinese in having again having the world's fastest supercomputer but they had it for a couple years and think about this okay cuz you were saying hard to believe the Nazis were only you know not even like just didn't just in our grandfather's age right so go back in time to then listen to this about this really freaked me out in terms of progress right after the war a guy called John von Neumann got a grant from the Atomic Energy Commission to essentially build the world's first computer I mean they existed but he built the first computer that could actually do calculations okay before that calculations were done with like by calculators computers were humans but there's this amazing story of von Neumann in the basement of the Princeton Institute for Advanced Study where he built this computer with government funds and he because he was a brilliant polymath he could add faster than anyone around him okay he's also the guy who calculated at what level the atomic bomb should explode over Hiroshima for the most blast okay because it didn't hit the ground it wouldn't kill as many people's brains so this is how his mind worked so he's faster than the computer he has a pen and paper in front of him and he can outperform the world's fastest computer with his own brain two and a half years into it in like 1949 the computer beats him and he made a statement then that said one day artificially intelligent machines will be the ruin of man I mean I'm paraphrasing that was his prediction but that was in 1949 in the 50s Marshall McLuhan said that we are the sex organs of the machine world I'm gonna have to really think about that that's a deep one that is very deep yeah we are the propagators we're the ones where your progenitors yeah that's it that's our baby we're gonna make that baby mm-hmm and then we're gonna die most likely that's gonna be the new living thing who said that Marshall McLuhan yeah just like that stop and think about that figuring that out in the 50s just looking around and going oh we're giving birth to these things but I have a question for you then on that morality issue right which is if man has always been a warring animal right why do we look so down upon the throat you know the knife to the throat and why do we as a society accept drone strikes because that's the whole question I asked in surprise kill vanish and I'm not sure I answered it to my own satisfaction because it's such a complicated question well one of them is very personal the other one is like a video game you know to stab someone to look them in the eye and and shove a knife through the ribs that's a takes a different kind of person and we don't think we want that person around us interesting you think it's a proximity issue oh it's it's just different you know one of them is throwing a rock at someone that's nowhere near you the other one is beating a guy to death when he's right in front of you there one it's very personal when you see someone struggling and we don't like to think that someone can put that aside and still twist that blade we don't want that we don't want that on our side we don't want our people to be Noble and just and but meanwhile when it comes to civilian casualties drones are one of the worst invention ever in human history if we really want to examine ourselves in terms of efficacy and the moral moral high ground in terms of engagement like launching missiles at apartment buildings because you found metadata in there that indicates that most likely an al-qaeda operative has a cell phone in that building like that that's some [ __ ] that people have done I mean that has been done and the casualty rate for civilians when it comes to drone strikes for innocent civilians it's stunning I think it's in the hi 80% I think that's we've done this before right how we I think it's some it's it's a disturbing I might be conservative by saying it's in the 80s it might be in the 90s it's a disturbingly high number of people who died who were not the intended target which would which would be an argument from all aid for the blade yeah the blade is you know who you stabbing and that that warrior is going in there aware that he too might die what do you got Jamie what's that face 3% 3% what that's what this says that's worship now who released that maybe three percent accuracy no I know there was there's been some serious discussions amongst scholars about this that's not true whatever you reading that can't be right yeah so just one operation was three percent just to throw this out there because there is that big debate I mean CIA paramilitary army tiny Defense Department huge CIA using either ground operators or drones mm-hmm Defense Department I read the statistic the other day seven thousand two hundred and change bombs dropped on Afghanistan last year I mean people don't even realize we're still seven seven thousand they just practicing here goes president Donald Trump revoked a requirement that US intelligence officials publicly report the number civilian kills in drone strikes and other attacks on terrorist targets outside of war zones oh so we're gonna get [ __ ] information now but pull up 2017 you have to fight well you got to really look hard to get that statistic there's an inspector general who covers Afghanistan right for the government he looks at all the statistics and by the way this administration just canceled his job so we will no longer have that information but he's the one that is in charge of reporting that because it's called the reconstruction effort right but that number of bombs really makes you think long and hard or at least me about you know the big footprint versus the small operation and I again I think this is why most people don't want to talk about this because it's a dark rabbit hole to go down you know people prefer to believe that we're just safe and sound here and not not at risk and I mean that's that's the endless question of are these are these threats real and must they be dealt with [Applause]

Channel: JRE Clips

Views: 1,174,184

Keywords: Joe Rogan, JRE, Joe Rogan Experience, JRE Clips, PowerfulJRE, Joe Rogan Fan Page, Joe Rogan Podcast, podcast, MMA, Joe Rogan MMA Show, UFC, comedy, comedian, stand up, funny, clip, favorite, best of

Id: kvkUXdRznp8

Length: 20min 10sec (1210 seconds)

Published: Fri May 17 2019