Jeff Cavins Journey Home

[Music] you good evening and welcome to during home I have a great privilege of hosting a host tonight my guest tonight of the host on another very popular program on EWTN a host that you're very familiar with Jeff Cavins I was on his program last night on life on the rock and we did a switch he used to be my guest this evening and we're going to talk about his journey into the church during it back to the church I know many have heard it in the past but it was important that we bring it back and have him a chance to let you first hang on my program it is great my first me all these years after I got the whole school year program one time I mean I don't think you could you could get here but you've got to sing on my program well I was thinking actually for go there before we go there I want to remind them 8-under down because I want them to start calling as soon as you start calling this is sending an email will start using a question so it's one eight hundred to two one nine four six oh the email is journey home at ewtn.com what's the theme for tonight life on the rock that's an expression of just journey now as you were starting to say you did give me the privilege involved seeing on your program pain so I heard though you were going to sing for us on I program kumbaya I am NOT going to sing on your boat I own I can't sing I can't play bongos I can't do the Irish dance I proved all this on life on the rock just recently and I know by my email that I can do it but I can't make interesting sound effects so imma be the first person make a sound effect on your program is it appropriate it is a it is a drip okay oh no at the talent right there that comes in handy yeah yeah it does I got in trouble that has you ever City on tape will be coming up oh it's good to be on your show it really isn't you you played a big role in my coming back to the church and for that I'm very very thankful and I everywhere I go around the country people tell me what this show is neat as meant to them well and your model as a as a host is helpful to me and learning how to be a host on this program so I appreciate that I have a grid for my program a little bit easier I think that your program is mate weeks and whistles but it works and so I'd like to begin by asking if you'd share with the audience the early part of your journey up until you started thinking about coming back to the Catholic Church well markets in a nutshell my my story I started out I was raised Catholic and I was raised in a very good Catholic home I'm a very loving parents very wonderful family by the time that I was sixteen seventeen years old I had a hunger to know God didn't really find a personal relationship with the Lord until a girl in high school led me to Christ and I ended up marrying her and she led me to the Lord and talked to me about a personal relationship with the Lord and that was something that I was hungry for growing up I was an average I like to tell people that I was an average American Catholic boy went to all the parties in high school had hair down halfway on my back and rode motorcycles around but inside there was a deep deep hunger and after she explained about a personal relationship with Christ and how I could read the scriptures as a loving letter from my Heavenly Father I pulled over on the side of the road one day and I put my head down on the steering wheel I began to weep and I asked Jesus to come into my heart to save me to make me born again these were the words that my girlfriend's mother had used and it did change me I was a changed person I met I met Christ and from about eighteen years old on I made the scriptures my love I went to Bible School but right before I went to Bible School there was a fight between my father and myself and a rift began to develop and after Bible College about three years later I made rather rather demonstrative exit from the church as I yelled at a bishop publicly and told me I'd had it with the Catholic Church and and I ended up leaving the Catholic Church I walked out it was really I realized now a lot of rebellion is my father and rebellion against the church wasn't a theological reason very emotional very much a social reason for leaving the church I went into talk radio and Christian radio and that's what I wanted to do growing up was being radio and television that's all I wanted to do but the Lord got ahold of my heart and I ended up becoming a Protestant pastor and I was a Protestant pastor for 12 years - wonderful churches filled with a bible-believing wonderful Christians you know I know from emails and letters that we received this is a fair number of the Catholics who watch the program who are sad because many of their children brought up in the church have left the church and her friends and that was your experience go back and reflect a bit why is it that so many people can be brought up through the hoops of the church and yet not fine price and then in the fighting Christ somewhere else sure well I think there's a number of reasons one of the reasons that that people end up growing up in the church but never really entering into a personal relationship is because is one of the reasons this poor catechesis is that people go through the hoops if you will they they go to Mass they go to confession they go through CCD whatever but they never they never reach a point where they encounter Christ really personally as far as it may not be challenged to do that's right that's right and oftentimes people talk about how religion is a personal thing I often tell people I'm really glad that Jesus didn't feel that way you know that it was a personal thing that it was a private thing right yeah a private thing and a lot of Catholic families don't introduce their children to a scripture as far as reading it on a personal level but most people will growing up they don't ask the questions until they start to reach problems or they encounter problems in their life that's when they start to think you know about how can God help me or they begin to reach out to God and somebody loves them and someone shares Christ with them and pretty soon they invite him to church and before you know it they they leave the Catholic Church to go to another church and they will say I did I didn't know about my faith but I was a Catholic but what's interesting is that they will tell you they know everything about the Catholic Church two weeks after they do I want you know so comments on I'm thinking back then when you were a Protestant minister ex-catholic Protestant minister our theme is life on the rock how did you understand at that point in your life the Catholic Church's view of the authority of the Pope well and we'll look into it in a little bit Matthew chapter 16 upon this rock I will build my church to be honest with you as a Protestant pastor I didn't give it a lot of thought as far as the Catholic Church I never made the network that weary behind you I really did and I wasn't really hostile toward Catholics I just felt that most Catholics didn't know Jesus and I base that on the fact that they didn't have a Bible in their hand they didn't talk about it a lot in public and they weren't winning souls you know and they weren't they were praying for people but I could see so obvious I added all that up and said that they didn't know they didn't know the Lord all right okay what are the things the people the events that open your heart to come home to the Catholic Church you know I it was probably in my my eighth year as a pastor I began to study the Scriptures more and more and more and of course the since I was 18 the Scriptures had been my life I went to Bible College and I studied fer sometimes hours a day in the were in the Word of God and the more I studied the scripture the more I started seeing things that were Catholic the area that I really enjoyed in the area that I taught a lot in were the rabbinic backgrounds of Jesus teaching and the Old Testament and there were key issues in the scriptures that pointed to the Catholic Church and they didn't really didn't what I was experiencing didn't look anything like what I what I saw in the scriptures and some of those issues and we can talk about about them if you want to are the authority issue the Eucharist and the concept of the Word of God Scripture and tradition in in the Word of God I realized as I started to study Scripture and get it into it deeper and deeper that the people of God always understood the Word of God as Scripture and tradition and I know that the Catholic Church taught that we believed in what was called Sola scriptura that is scripture alone it's are really our only means of divine authority that God will reveal himself through Scripture the problem was I knew because of my background in the Old Testament in the rabbinic teachings I knew that the Jews before Jesus during Jesus and even today the that the Word of God comes through yes scripture but the Jews also believe that God revealed his word in tradition at Mount Sinai what's called an oral torah which later on was codified in the Mishnah and the Gomera better known as today that the talmud so I knew that that the people of God always understood the Word of God as Scripture and tradition but what I was holding to was simply scripture alone and I realized that there was a problem with that I realized that the Eucharist was another issue for me I realized in the Old Testament that in Exodus chapter 12 for the Passover you had to take the lamb and on the tenth day of Nisan he took the lamb inspected it until the 14th day of Nisan and at 3 o'clock at twilight he sacrificed the lamb but between the 10th and the 14th you would inspect the lamb to see if there were any blemishes whatsoever and then you would course sacrifice the lamb this tradition kept on and eventually the jerusalem temple was built and people making their pilgrimage to jerusalem would have to either bring a little lamb hundreds of miles which it wouldn't be perfect anymore or they could buy a lamb from what was called the sacrificial flock which was raised outside of jerusalem and brought into jerusalem for pilgrims to to purchase for the passover on the tenth day of Nisan they would bring in the flock and then from the 10th to the 14th they would inspect the flock for blemishes now on the tenth day of Nisan Palm Sunday Jesus comes into Jerusalem at the same day that the sacrificial flock is brought in and he is inspected meticulously for the next few days and he stands before Pilate and what his pilots say I find no fault in him all interesting and then at the same point the sacrificial flock is being killed the Lamb of God was being shelled and I realized that we needed to eat the lamb in the Old Testament we need to eat the lamb in the New Testament but we were saying spiritually but when we would give out communion we'd say this is a symbol and it bothered me because I realized the reality Jesus has come and yet we're still a symbol level we're starting to share some of these findings with your congregation or were you kind of schizophrenic in terms of that you know it's coming we do what do I say or what do I keep to myself and I understand that I was starting to share some of these things with the congregation and in fact I a little bit later on the story bought a catechism and the Catechism so so pierced my heart it was so filled with Scripture and so rich and teaching that I actually started teaching from the Catechism and it was a great source for me but about them difficult we start making actual steps towards how did your wife take that and and what about your job as a pastor sure well you know when I was when I was on this journey I knew fairly soon but the end was going to be I began studying and I studied and I studied and I was convinced that the Catholic Church was right and that did one of the issues was the papacy and where there was a particular event that took place we were living in Ohio I was studying I had books all around the room of studying on the papacy because this was a big issue for me Marcus you've been there yourself before since the Reformation we have over 28,000 different denominations all based on scripture alone these are not my numbers this is the American government that is visibly there is an empirical evidence twenty-eight thousand denominations I also realized that as a pastor of an independent church which many Catholics leave and go to hallelujah World Outreach Center victory conquering world you know whatever you know on and on whatever Church it might be but as a pastor I have the Word of God and if I needed to correct someone or bring me some type of discipline as a shepherd as a pastor all someone had to say was that's not what the Lord is saying to me and they could just leave or worse yet start another church just start another church so you didn't have a real sense of authority that you could accomplish what you needed to for for the souls of these of these people Authority was a big issue how do I know as a pastor preparing my sermon on Saturday night the question how do I know that this is bedrock that I am proclaiming the truth I know what I heard on a tape a few days ago from another preacher I know what I read in a book that I bought in the Christian bookstore a few days ago but how do i altima know what the truth is and who has a responsibility for me as a pastor to love me and to care for me well this we were sitting in our in her house and I rented this tape of Denver the Mile High Stadium World Youth Day and the Holy Father came my wife is sitting on the end of the couch I'm there with all these books open and I started the video and the Holy Father comes into Mile High Stadium and he's waving at people you know in his popemobile and he's going around the outside and the crowd is cheering wildly they're swaying and they're singing and young people are crying why because this this man this whoever this man is comes comes into a stadium and affects people's life this way and something began to happen inside I began to weep I began to cry and my wife took the chain the channel changer she put it on pause and she said what has got into you you're a pastor and I looked at her and I said sweetheart you don't understand that's not Jimmy Swaggart that's not Jim Baker that's not Pat Robertson that's the Vicar of Christ that is my father in the faith and that's my family and I want to come home there was something Marcus deep down inside of me that witness so strongly that that was my father and I was out of the loop and you know what I had been the Pope I carried the weight of the papacy in an independent Church and I'm not ashamed to say at Marcos I felt that I was going to crack under the weight of the papacy I had to figure out how to build a church after all 2,000 years I had to figure it out I had to somehow come up with the answers myself and that was a burden that wasn't prepared to carry I think that's what is opening the hearts of so many of our Protestant clergy brothers and sisters for the church is that if they're able to stand back and see that what they're teaching is so different from other Protestant ministers then then begin to realize as Newman says every church must have its Pope and that's what we were time flies you having fun that's a good taste of your journey and we'll tell the audience that if you want to know more about Jeff's journey finally it's coming out in a book isn't that right that's right we have a book that is available it's kept people can order it it's going to be out in just a just a couple of weeks and thought long and hard about the title and after prayer came to a conclusion as to what the title should be and I've gone through a lot of difficulties with my father earlier on being a pastor a lot of hard things took place and I've called the book between the rock and a hard place between a rock and a hard place between Peter and a heart the beauty of the book is the reason why we mentioned when when guests have their book is that they're great ways to share the faith in a very personal way biographies of a way of melding the apologetics into someone's story so I looking forward to that Jeff let's let's that's a couple questions about this theme life on Iraq which is the title of your your program that you you host on Thursday nights okay now as a Catholic knowing that so many outside the church don't exactly understand what the Catholic Church means when it sees the Pope as the rock what do we teach in that how do we understand well just a quick little Bible lesson what might as well do that in Matthew chapter 16 it's Peters confession of Christ and very interesting I'll just read a little bit Matthew 16:13 now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi he began asking his disciples saying who do people say that the son of man is he asks one question and this this spoke to me very strongly in my my conversion i reverse coming back to the church the Jesus is asking one question is not asking what do you guys think about baptism infant sprinkling dunk what do you guys think he's not asking is not asking about eternal salvation he's not asking about the sacrament of marriage it's not talking about consubstantiation or transubstantiation he's asking one basic question who do they say I am that's pretty basic who did they say I am he's throwing out a question now if I was there with the Lord as that don't do that don't throw it out there like that you're going to get a lot of answers and that's exactly what he did get he said who do the people say the Son of Man is and they said well some say John the Baptist some say Elijah others say Jeremiah and one of the other prophets and I thought about it the answer John the Baptist wrong Elijah wrong Jeremiah wrong one of the prophets wrong for answers for wrong answers for four questions for wrong answers and then he says but who do you say that I am and he's asking that he's asking a very important question who do you say that I am and Simon Peter steps up just imagine the pause that pregnant pause he looks into the eyes of the Lord and he looks around at his fellow disciples then he says thou art Christ the Son of the Living God and I were like I said Peter fantastic you are so clever you you have studied so much but he does it Jesus doesn't say that the disciples don't say that Jesus answers and he says to him said to him blessed are you simon barjona because flesh and blood didn't reveal this to you my father in heaven revealed it to you and I also say to you that you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it I will give you the powers of the the keys to the kingdom of heaven and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven and Jesus is is alluding to a text which if you understand rabbinic teaching in the first century Jesus used a method in the first century called Ramez in Hebrew it means to hint he's always hinting at Old Testament texts and he's using another method called peckish he's always vain to gather scriptures to really to give meaning like when he said the son of man has come to seek and to save that which is that which is lost it's not a new same he's banging together two texts banging together the text in the Old Testament from the Prophet on the I myself will come in Shepherd my sheep and Daniel 7 you'll have a kingdom that will never end and the so he bangs together text but here he's hinting about Isaiah chapter 22 I really believe he's hinting about this and he says it says in Isaiah 22 verse 20 then it will come about in the debt day that I will summon my servant alike him the son of Hilkiah and I will clothe him with your tunic entire sash securely about him I will entrust him with your authority and he will become a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem into the house of Judah then I will set the key of the house of David on his shoulder when he opens no one will shut when he shuts no one will open and I will drive him like a peg in a firm place and this is of course speaking about you drive a peg in a firm place you are you are connecting two things together driving a peg so there brings unity and the Catechism is filled with this one of the roles of the Holy Father the Pope is to bring unity though either is a symbol of unity in in the in the church but Jesus back to Matthew chapter 16 this is very beautiful he asks a question who do people say that I am wrong wrong wrong wrong public opinion now what would happen today if you say what about baptism yes a ronk ronk ronk twenty-eight thousand times perhaps or fifteen thousand times it just the Lord's Supper will do significance of that the importance of that exactly what or even were the criteria for someone to be saved 60 years after Martin Luther a book was published in Germany called two hundred interpretations to the words this is my body sixty years later so Jesus comes and he says that's the right answer but more importantly here I want you I want everyone to understand how he got that answer my father revealed it to him and I want everybody to understand one other thing I'm going to build my church on him I'm going to give him authority and I'm going to give him the keys to the kingdom and so now as you know Jesus Jesus said in Luke 10 16 anyone who listens to you listens to me and anyone who rejects you rejects me so Jesus not only established his authority but he is saying to everyone that that you will speak on my behalf and whatever other people do you they're doing it they're doing it to me and so the key from that point on if you really want to hear Christ is to find out who has that authority Peter was given the authority and now who has that authority today you know that you know I know from our background that there are other explanations for that Matthew 16 passage to try and get away from that but the reality is when you truly listen to it that is the most obvious and literal clear meaning of that passage any other explanation is an interpretation in fact many true Protestant scholars would agree with you yeah and then sometimes the interpretations are contradictory getting away from the clear meaning of the panzini I mean if we believe that the Bible is the authority of our faith as a separate Brethren that take what it says and accept it as that and backing off a little bit from that Marcus you know from the from an apologetics stand look at looking at it just from the standpoint of he's our Shepherd you know Jesus is our Shepherd and what is really the issue here he loves us so much he cares about us so much he's not interested in apologetic debate so much as he is that you're going to be fed that you're going to be cared for because that's the bottom line he loves you and as a shepherd he made sure that that you would be taken care of I've been giving a talk recently called I'm not being fed the number one Catholic eating disorder when I talk talked about how how you know who has a responsibility to feed you what is he going to feed you and what are you eating now Jesus is the Good Shepherd and what is he going to feed you nothing less than his body in blood how is he going to do it he has established Authority in the church apostolic succession to talk about that the continuance of that Authority because we're talking about a Matthew 16 passage that was there a time and place Pete Jesus talking to Simon Peter but how does that apply then to the Pope's all through the ages into our present John Paul the second well when Jesus established his authority with the with the early church he said to them in in Matthew I will not leave you alone and he said that um that I will be with you always even to the end of the age so you have to ask yourself the question was he talking just to those apostles because if if he's saying to them I will be with you always that's a long-long always I mean that's a 2000 year always our or is he just going to be with them until they die well the answer is he is speaking to the church I will be with you always and the way that he is with us always is through his authority in the church and the Holy Spirit ultimately is overseeing this he is the one that has given been given the responsibility really to make sure that that that the teaching goes on and to apostolic succession but once again is a literal interpretation exactly promised to be possible that's one of the things that's amazing about this Marcus is it someone once said they said you can't understand the Catholic Church looking from the outside as well as from the inside like a stained-glass window when you're in the inside looking out it's just so beautiful and I look at it now and I think how come I didn't yeah what was like what was I thinking but when speaking of the kingdom Daniel said in the Old Testament that of that kingdom there will be no end and what did Isaiah 9:6 a of his government there will be no winter with his government how is he going to rule in reign so he established his church established his authority and that authority has been passed on so today I want to hear the voice of Christ I miss two wrong and I mean someone may say yeah but there's been a lot of goofy things over the years yes amen but isn't that beautiful how Christ communicates even through the goofy times look at Moses a murderer look at David a murderer did God come up with another plan he worked through that plan and that's he works through you and I the talk practically mm-hmm okay what difference does it make for your average Catholic that John Paul the second is our authority in our life and I think it had a very practical sherry by nature and by the way that I think that's really what brought me into the church was the practical I'm really not a theologian and not a you know not a real real learned man I learned the scriptures and studying but it was the practical it was the need of the heart that brought me in and I think sometimes we reduce conversion to simply a mental apologetic when we have to also take into consideration our hearts I was a needy man I was a needy man and when people say Jeff converted to the Catholic Church because he had a need for a father I say to them you don't know the half of it I was a needy man and I am a needy man and that's why I came into the Catholic Church but I would say a couple of things number one certitude I have I have a real sense of certitude in my life right now about the faith and that I can really build my life on the rock and I don't have to spend the rest of my life trying to figure it all out that doesn't mean I stopped thinking and thinking but I within a a body of truth now that is is vast and that's one of the other one of the other points is comprehensive the truth that has been passed on to me is comprehensive it touches every area of life family life look at the Li encyclicals the Holy Father is written it touches every aspect of life this is vast and I would say to anybody who's used to going into a Christian bookstore and buying books try an encyclical it'll blow your mind how deep it is how compassionate and how fatherly the encyclicals are so so comprehensive the certitude I can get on with my life living my life but I would also say that one of the practical aspects is that I have something to pass on to my children that is bigger than me the Catholic faith covers from cradle to grave from the moment you're born to the moment you die Jesus is there with the sacraments he's there with a word he's there with a word of encouragement he's there to father you from the beginning to the end and I love it thank you please stay with us we'll be back in just a moment with your questions and emails for the other host if that joins me tonight Jeff Davis you welcome back to the journey home you've got a real skills yeah I want to say you're a trip but you know I've you know Jeff cave is my guest tonight on the program you share this journey into the veins and you know that's the sad thing about skimming it through is that it keeps you from doing all the apologetics but maybe there'll be some specific questions either by phone or email about some specific apologetic issue or in some ways that's what the modern Internet is all about is helping people go directly to answer questions let's take our first email this from some case summers dear Marcus thank you so much for your show as a person who has returned to the church I wonder how my education which I am receiving at a non Catholic Bible College will fit into my life I've only been back to the church for the last month and a half how did you and Jeff fit your training as pastors it that deficit a question that many of the conference feel but especially those have been training as pastors teachers or lay ministers right is what I do with this information I spoke one time to a professor at Gordon College in Windham Massachusetts and a mentor of mine and I remember saying to him you know I was thirty years old at the time and I was just finishing up on some degrees and I said I feel like I've done everything backwards and he looked at me said don't don't ever think that so the Lord has you on a track in life and you are going along at the pace that the Lord wants you to go and you have traveled the way that perhaps you had to travel people ask me do you feel like you wasted all those years as a Protestant pastor I say absolutely not I really believe that the Lord has led me on a journey and I appreciate so much about my Protestant background I really do my love for Scripture my love for prayer and fellowship I think that's why we are the way we are today we and I want to say thank you to all my products and friends who have given so much in their life one man said to me one time he said he said chew the straw spit out the sticks you know and that's true of anything that we read and when it comes to all the training that you have received one of the things you can do is is it now begin to filter some of that look at it from a Catholic perspective which is a family perspective yeah and also as you're now being open to the fullness you'll recognize that there are some things that were left out like studying philosophy or looking at the early church fathers or so many great writings on the spirituality of the church to start fitting in the gaps thing that let's say is separated brethren we didn't realize we're gaps there but then this is understand scripture more fully and when it comes to our Protestant brethren this is not a contest it's not a contest this is the pursuit of truth no this is a pursuit of Christ and if we're both standing 15 feet away from the Lord and pursue him well with last thing we want to is fight grab a hold of him embrace him stick our first caller this is Peter from Arizona hello Peter what's your question for us tonight hi can I begin by telling you I enjoyed both of your shows I think you're both the about men of God I'm not Catholic but I have a question being that you're both you work Protestant yeah um can you elaborate a little bit on what we many people think is a Catholic over veneration of Mary we're almost like she's a co-redemptrix can you elaborate not for me yes thank you Peter for the question but I understand that I understand that when I when I was a Protestant pastor one of the the complaints that I had was that was that there was too much emphasis put on on Mary until I began to realize some things about Mary number one that everything that we attribute to Mary is not due to her herself as much as the work of Christ that we talk about the Immaculate Conception she was born free of original skin because of the work on the cross and that all that she is is really the culmination of Christ's work and it is really a goal for us to become bottom line is is that we are to be without sin and Eve created without without sin and the only difference between Mary and myself was just a few days after I was born I was baptized and I was I was free from that I think that if you look at Mary in the family perspective in the church that she begins you begin to see her in her role as mother and now I would agree with her caller to a certain extent that when you when you listen to some of the Catholics talk about Mary and there is a silence about Christ the conclusion that many of them come to is is that you don't have a relationship with the Lord and I think that we as Catholics need to talk about the Lord Need to Talk About Mary but the proper relationship yeah and encourage Peter to take some time to read the Catechism on Mary because often this this misunderstanding comes because those on the outside looking in do not understand that's which we're silent which we take for granted if a woman is kneeling before a statue of Mary praying the beads from the outside without understanding it looks idolatrous it looks strange but once you understand why she's doing that what she is doing she's not worshiping that statue she's not worshiping Mary when you understand that then you can unleash understand what she is doing you may not accept that for yourself but at least understand that and hope we come to but a better understanding because actually we wish that our separated brethren would appreciate Mary at least as much as the Scriptures appreciate me I totally agree let's take this next email is Bob from New Jersey dear Marcus and Jeff please suggest the best way to hear our Lord's thoughts for our life or best way to get to know Jesus do you recommend prayer interactions with other people Rogers please say again your favorite scriptures mentioned on last night filmed in Proverbs I'll do that in a moment with yes answer that first of you would Jaffa how do we get closer to Christ how do we know Christ knows Barilla father I think that the way that we can get to know Christ is there's a several things number number one we need to we need to hear his voice we need to hear his voice and his voice can be heard in the church in the authority of the church somebody a while ago tried to trip me up on a radio show and they said if there's a new Marion Dogma what will you do Jeff and I am I thought was if the church speaks I will listen and and is that you know it's reasonable and I will listen so I'm listening for the voice of Christ in apostolic succession this has been one of the greatest joys for me to pick up an encyclical to pick up the catechism of the Catholic Church you can hear the voice of the Lord and of course in reading scripture in reading scripture you is a the church Church teaches us that this is a personal letter from a loving Heavenly Father to you and it's written to be read so we can hear the voice of the Lord in the Word of God and the scriptures and in the tradition of the church and also in the in the voice we listened to the voice the call I won that proverb from last night which after I quoted it you refer back to many times which reminded me how important it is to both of us as proverbs 3:5 and 6 trust in the Lord with all your heart lean not into your own understanding in all your ways acknowledge him and he'll direct your paths and it's a promise they truly keeps let's take our next call it is a loop from South Carolina what's your question for us today hello Lou hello hello what's your question for us today how you doing Marcus yes I Jeff I was wondering when he was called back video to the Catholic faith as he mentioned starting with the pulp visit and he started using the Catholic catechism in his church was he able to convince or bring any of the Protestant parishioners of his with him all right thanks it's a good question yeah a couple of the elders in my church became Catholic shortly after I did they they went through in our CIA program and they became Catholic themself for really the same reasons Lou I would say that once I started to tell first of all I told a couple of the elders in my church what was happening in my life and I met with him privately and I said I've got to talk to you I'm going to become Catholic I'm going back to the Catholic Church you know that I've been studying now for quite a while I've been studying actually for a couple of years and my preaching started to reflect sacraments and the real presence of Christ and so forth so when I told them it didn't surprise them completely what surprised me is I found out that they were praying the rosary on the side that's what surprised me was am i two of my elders were praying the rosary that in their own heart they were being drawn to the Eucharist and this is what surprised me several others of the people we've had an opportunity to talk to but what's been really interesting is that through television now through the shows that I will get emails from past parishioners that are converting to the Catholic Church now they're low right and stay used to be my pastor and I'm coming into the church this fall or whatever and that's that's that's a great joy and once again not a contest that this is that this is a pursuit of truth and I'm just rejoicing that people are finding more of Christ let's take our next email this is Tom from Spokane your Marcus and Jeff I want to thank you both of you for being such faithful witnesses to Christ into the faith is very inspiring and gives me great hope to persevere thank you Tom Jeff I encourage if you and your father have a reconciled well thank you for asking that we did we that was part of my journey back after I was convinced that I was called back to the Catholic Church I used that word called I felt the wooing of God got calling me back to the Eucharist back to my mother Mary and back to the communion of saints it was in the midst of that that there was a series of events my father ended up I was I was leading a trip to Israel actually with Gordon College out in Windham Massachusetts my mother came out and to watch our child our daughter while we went on this trip and that night my father had a heart attack and I went had to go back to the Twin Cities and when I went back there I talked to a professional counselor by the name of Wes and I just wanted to run this by him am I crazy I want to make sure I'm coming back to the church for the right reasons and he was a Lutheran pastor and in the middle of telling him my whole story it was really revealed to me in an encounter that I had a rebellious heart toward my father and towards the Catholic Church and that for all of these years while we did a lot of wonderful things in ministry there was also a spirit of rebellion operating in my life saying I can do this myself I can build a church I can prove it to my father that I don't need him I don't need priests I don't need the bishops and I don't need the Pope but I can do this and there was a tremendous reconciliation between my father and myself that came when I finally confronted my father with love and I said I am so sorry for having rebelled against your father and he said to me at that point that the day he hit me had been on his mind all these years and we and he said but the thing that really has hurt me all these years is what you said to me Jeff that night that you did I hit you and I said what Dad and he looked at me he said when you were laying on the floor he looked up at me and you pointed at me and you yelled out I'm no son of yours he said that's what's been killing me and I got up and I hugged him and it was an embrace and I said I'm sorry I am your son I love you here my father and there was a tremendous healing not only coming back to the Catholic Church but the healing with with my father and well thank you for asking that my father's doing well today and we haven't stopped talking about Jesus since oh that's great what a great blessing the reconciliation because really I've seen that could our conversions involved many reconciliations and especially for some of us whose families have been out of the Catholic Church for a long time it's a sense of reconciliation for the whole family yeah and I was running from my father I was running from that I was running from from Authority I was and you just asked that question where will you run you know if you run okay six pence collar it's rich from Connecticut hello rich what's your question for us tonight yes Marcus and Jeff good show comma that was wondering if you could they'd elaborate a little bit on sacramental Catholicism it seems though our faith is we're living in the presence of Jesus and that seems to be different I know when I was in the born-again group it was it was a different dimension a different relationship not not really in the real code the real presence now you know when you genuflect and we have all the reverence for the piety it's like Jesus is right there with us if that seems to be a more mature faith or just a deeper relationship I feel and then wonder if you guys have comment thank you much that what you're saying rich is there is very very important in fact my whole journey actually toward the Catholic Church actually began and the first thought of ever even maybe returning to the church or even being Catholic in any way or any fond thoughts of the past started when I walked into a retreat center in Dayton Ohio a Catholic retreat center Bergamo I believe it was called and we walked in there just about an hour so after there had been a mass an incense was was in the mask and I walked in and I smelled the incense and it brought me back it brought me back and and that's the sacramental dimension of Catholicism is that God speaks to us in and through the things of this world we are by were creatures who are who are created to experience the world with our senses touch smell taste we hear we think we're very very complex beings and in Catholicism we experience Christ in so many different ways we hear we smell we taste we see and it's an absolutely beautiful way you know to a to experience the Lord every part of my being can cry out and in experience Christ in in one way or another what I was involved in before the type of church that I was involved in was was limited in somewhat somewhat to what you think in the things that you're learning concepts and it's just it's been so refreshing to be able to to genuflect it's been so refreshing to gaze upon the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament then so refreshing to to have incense and so forth oh it's a feast for the senses often up people outside the Catholic Church will ask you know do you have a personal relationship with Christ our whole understanding as Catholics of growing in union with Christ is that very thing our personal intimate relationship with Christ in the sacraments and the sacramentals and everything enables us to know him more deeply and more closely let's take this next email was from Michele hello Marcus and Jeff I would just like to ask a simple question I think she said what version of the Bible would you recommend to a Catholic who would like to begin a home Bible reading / study program I'm confused as which one to use that's a question I think you get a lot and I and I get a lot in conferences around the country and now that we've started up at home with the word Bible studies people are asking what should we use in our in our study we recommend that Catholics use a Catholic Bible with what are called the deuterocanonical books Protestants will often refer to them as the apocryphal books the false writings but we call them the deuterocanonical books that second the second canon and you can get an RSV Catholic Edition there those are available the new American Bible is used in the liturgy in the United States here some people enjoy that The Jerusalem Bible Mother Angelica uses the Jerusalem Bible on her show and in fact I think it's the reprinted that and available it is a very long program through the catalog program those are three that we recommend personally myself when people ask what do you really like to read and those three I really like the RSB Catholic edition it's uh it reads well smooth it's very accurate and I can't help but mention of course the douay-rheims that the more traditional traditional language is a beautiful text to read to enjoy the great liturgy and a great accuracy of the text and its relationship to the original languages let's take our next email from Kevin well buck suggest uh Jeff I love both of your shows I have a question regarding my older sister we were both raised Catholic she left the church about five years ago fortunately her leaving prompted me to research why I was Catholic by doing so my Catholic faith has been strengthened greatly my question is what do you think would be the best place to begin my journey to bring my sister back home to a life on the rock well it would be the best place to begin Wow the best place to begin you know it's hard to say start here start there because different things will affect different people differently in my case I had a need and I had a need for a father and I had a need to be fathered and I had a need for authority in my life nobody really knew that on the outside but the Lord knew that and that's what he brought across my path I think in witnessing to people and trying to bring them into the fullness of the faith into the Catholic faith one of the things that we need to do is not treat them like a mark on our belt you know somebody that was going to just we're going to win for the Lord and that's it but to get to know a person what are their needs in their life what were they hurting what did it what do they need deep down inside and then you can begin to minister that to them in a loving way and share with them what the Catholic Church provides in this particular area for me it was the issue of the Father it was there was no doubt that I had rented that video that day about the Holy Father and so in the Catechism in the scriptures find that area and begin to minister to them and of course the most important place at The Beginner's prayer constantly faithfully lifting up this person in prayer because sometimes we ask the question why are some of those world's congregations or why others haven't come home to the church when they've heard some of the same things it's a work of God's grace in our hearts so constantly asking the Lord to intercede and as you mentioned people playing praying the rosary for we didn't even know it how to keep that keep it up let's take our next caller Celia from Texas so we'll see what your question tonight yes I had a question for the both of you I'm a little familiar with the phrase having a personal relationship with Jesus and as a cradle Catholic I always wondered what does that exactly mean and how do I teach that to my children I have a 12 year old son whom I'm trying to teach this to by canted I don't know how so can you tell me how I can explain this this personal relationship Thank You Celia that's a good because that's touched on why often many will literature when we talk about a personal relationship with the Lord number number one the Lord relates to his his body his church we are a family where the family of God from the beginning of scripture to the end we have a family and God is ministering to us as a family that's why we have mother Mary as our mother we have the Saints his older brothers and sisters and so forth that in that family the father relates to his children as a body but as you know a father also relates to each child in the family I have two sisters and and I have three daughters and I relate to Carly my oldest and I relate to Jackie and Tony I relate to them as my daughters it's time to eat come on kids it's time to eat and relating to em all but then there's a time where I have to take Carly aside and say I'm your father I want to talk to you personally about something in your life and that's the way it is in the kingdom of God is that our Father he relates to all of us as a body his authority can be seen its manifested in the body but that he loves us personally to the point where he knows the hairs on her head and and he wants to have that personal relationship with us also within the context of the family not outside of the context but within the context and we can teach our children that by just what I said by relate if you have more than one shot you know child talking to them as a group but then saying to them I love you individually too and I want to spend some personal time with each one of you for your own development in your own growth and hopefully that the time that I spend with all of you girls will also enhance the time that we have together and you'll understand even more how much I love you when I can talk to you privately it's interesting that phrase which is so common amongst our Protestant brothers and sisters personal relationships and Jesus isn't in Scripture personal relationship but there are phrases that describe that which are deep and very important to Catholic theology abiding in Christ that's a person relationship knowing him as you described earlier that knowing is an intimate relationship with Christ and he knows if you're here in our head that's why God knows us more easily when we're older because we have this here deliver he's getting to know me really well last couple minutes in the program talk a bit about how coming back to the Catholic Church has enabled you to know Christ more intimate well you know Marcus SS I think that I have now been able to spend more time just with the Lord and enjoying the Lord rather than just wondering you know how to figure this whole thing out and I've actually been able to relax in the Lord and to spend time before the Blessed Sacrament it has given me a tremendous appreciation for the body of Christ in the family of God it's given me a tremendous appreciation for authority and now the greatest thing I tell this to people is I've never enjoyed studying the Bible more than being a Catholic you know why because I'm studying it within the context of a family you know as well as I do we have those times where we we bring out the family pictures and we're going to show everyone the family pictures and the children gather around they're so excited they want to see pictures of themselves and oh remember when Dad did des and remember when when when my sister did that I mean when when Carly did this and we enjoyed that and that's what it's been like for me is it's like taking out the family pictures and I'm enjoying my relationship with Christ within the context now of a family but more than anything else I would say that has given me a tremendous sense of certitude and that when I hear the Holy Father Pope John Paul the second speak and I listen to the tradition of the church it gives me such a sense of certitude and I would say to anybody watching or listening to the program this evening that if you are walking on shaky ground sandy ground allow Christ to lift you up and place you on the rock and build your life on the rock on solid ground because the winds are going to come and the storms are going to come he wants you to be solid rock Jeff thank you so much for being on the program for having it's great I hope we dis again sometime then I'll get you to sing Kumbaya me yeah I'll do it okay but thanks a lot and daddy much and thank you for joining us in the journey home it's always a pleasure see you again next week [Music] you [Music] you

Channel: Rey Andrada

Views: 13,239

Rating: 4.6727271 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic

Id: fnNcay7Felg

Length: 55min 21sec (3321 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 04 2013