Jazz Conversation with Jim Hall

from the Library of Congress in Washington DC hello we're here today with a man who many consider the greatest jazz guitarist of our time and in fact of any time Jim Hall Jim Hall welcome to the Library of Congress does that me you described it it is a very room today is March 20th 2009 and you were initially scheduled to perform here last October right what happened I had spine surgery and very ironic among other things because before that I had a pretty good health I thought I was playing tennis and then I had a spine fracture so so I was in the hospital quite well and I'm delighted that I'm here especially with what's happened at the White House and everything now so that's great has the condition or the recovery impacted your playing I imagine it has because I just haven't really played much I I finished the two CD Projekt with Bill Frisell kind of in between and I was able to do that sitting down but that's hemispheres hemispheres right now and so wills will see this evening I guess I'm sure it has in a way but on the other hand it's going to be so refreshing and uplifting I think to work with Joey Baron and Steve Lupino again they're great is is really are great people - can you say what you like about them specifically I like them personally and they they both listen beautifully and react well and that's relief to me with that's what life is about and certainly that's what music is by de specially Joey Baron he's he's a has a great sense of humor and I was we were talking about the sound and where we're going to play this evening and it's evidently great for string quartets and and that sort of thing and it's very live and Joey is perfect for that he listens so well and so they're just I almost want to say typical of jazz musicians they're terrific people and they they're really easy to play with so that ain't bad and I'm not paying the meters however a little joke um for some of our viewers and the people who will see this on our website who want to sort of some background in context for what kind of environment you come out of you're born in Buffalo yeah and you move to Cleveland at what age Cleveland I guess I was what eight by then I will be first and kind of all over Ohio Collins I was born in Buffalo because I wanted to be near my mother actually that's why ah yeah it was mostly Ohio until I left for California and so when did you first pick up the guitar oh I think I was nine or ten my mom got me a guitar for my birthday and my Christmas or something like that so tell everyone who your Uncle Ed was and what kind of impact he had on your development but I'm not sure still I wish I'd gotten to know him better uh Uncle Ed played country music this is in Ohio and insane country songs American country so and I didn't really know much about him I I wish I had gotten to know him he died before I really got to know him again parenthetically that somebody put out a bootleg record in Europe and kind of I wasn't even the leader on some of these but had my name on the front end a lot in the liner notes I'd mentioned music in my family said my mom was a was a pianist my uncle was a guitarist and my grandfather was a conductor my mom played a little bit of piano my and I told you about my uncle my grandfather was a conductor on the railroad so I said yeah let's test my background um we should all give credit to our teachers yes so who were your earliest and most important music teachers well well my first teacher was a man named Jack do Piro and then after that after after I had really gotten so I played in little groups and stuff I was around a man named Fred sharp for quite a while who and we stayed in touch till just recently to be lost Fred and then I managed to get into the Cleveland as to the music and I was there for five years and that was really important that was a probably the best decision musically I think it ever made because I knew nothing about classical music but I just knew I wanted to be a better musician and they let me pay the tuition 300 bucks at a time or something like that because I knew somebody there and I think I probably liked Hindemith because it reminds me of Stan Kenton and as Tversky of course was woody Herman's band and I thought Mozart was childish and five years later Mozart became a genius I see so anyway that was mostly attend the institute of music for five years so you mentioned jack and you mentioned Fred can you say what those earlier teachers taught you was it the basics was a technique well I I imagined a jock dipper was probably mostly basics except he was also very encouraging he seemed to think I was going to do okay that the encouragement was important and Fred Sharpe really took me way beyond that Fred had worked with red and Orville and people like that and he started showing me some different kind of chord voicings and that sort of thing and he really kind of opened my ears and my eyes a lot and so he was very important to me I think and then at the Institute you're learning more theory history and literature yeah I was a music theory major and it was an incredible school we had a number of teachers who had come to the states to to get out of nazi mess in Europe and my composition teacher his name was Marcel dick he had been around Arnold Schoenberg he played a veal and string quartet that played some with Schoenberg's music and stuff so he that was his so did he teach you twelve-tone music he I wrote a couple 12 tone pieces which he thought were childish so I gave that he didn't know he didn't really emphasize that at all but I uh I became aware of it and I thought I would try it out it was a great experience but you still have those early attempts probably not I kind of hope not oh you don't I have a string quartet that I wrote as for my thesis the first movements not bad I bet I actually recorded it and I opened it up so I could play a guitar solo in their first movement is pretty good and the second two movements I don't remember that because they were done in a hurry because I had had visionary but so when and how did you decide that music would be your life well I I think my spiritual awakening the only one usually my spirituality has gone the other way but I was 13 I think that I was working in different little groups in Cleveland Ohio and usually it was accordion dropped no based at this particular one of the leader was a guy named Angelo Vienna played clarinet and we went to a record store and he wanted to get a Benny Goodman record and we played a bit of it and I heard Charlie Christian for the first time he was playing on a tune called Grand Slam which is a blues in F and he played two choruses and I remember literally thinking I don't know what that is but whatever I wish I could do that and it was Charlie Christian so he was murdered first the hero did you take the record home and memorize the solo actually I bought a wherever they however fast records ran who was the 78 yeah it's bad I bought our album of Benny Goodman sextet records and I I don't think we even had a record player we might have but I do remember the solo so no so I must have memorized that's the only thing I memorized that and I had a one Barney Kessel solo that I learned from when he was with our jaws band you're still probably you probably still remember those old I think I remember Charlie solo earlier yeah do you think musicians change or anybody changes with their environment for example when you move from Cleveland to Los Angeles Europe how did that change you as a musician and as a person that's interesting yeah I had to still have a friend who was whom I had studied big band arranging with a guy named Joe Donnelly DOL and Y who had moved to Los Angeles and and he had a big band that they would get together once a week at the Musicians Union so I got to be involved in that and I I think just hearing all kinds of I started with vicinity Gomez I tried to learn classical guitar a little bit I never learned it but he was trading I can't say specifically but I think if you if one if you just sort of stay open things will happen in you you'll keep evolving for instance the last most recent they have been involved it was a duet project with Bill Frisell who's completely different in a lot of ways from me but I just try to stay open and literally live in the moment live even though we're talking about the past right now but I while I was out there I met Chico Hamilton and I worked with Chico which was a great experience and in Jinju free and after that i was i want to alan ask you more about Chico and Jimmy but you mentioned something intriguing this this business of living in the moment yeah it sounds so simple yeah yeah do you find yours is it simple is it easy for you is simple easy but I know interesting is a cheap word but that is interesting because I hope musically it's not that difficult for me especially if I'm involved in something but one does develop prejudices as for instance if I look at a picture of a music group and I see guys with tons of amplifiers and making okay so I just assumed that probably don't played so there's some kind of prejudice but it's also I find myself look there's a marvelous young guitar player means literally young he's he's 29 his name is Julian laws la geez marvellous and Julian came over the apartment a few weeks ago to talk and I hadn't known him since he was 11 talking about living in the moment and he came with Brian Camillo my friend who is here with me and we got talking about this and that and some names came up and I said Jim don't be an old geezer don't tell stories about that guy from 80 years ago so I had to stop myself and say because one does you do have memories of the past and it's going to kind of put that aside and say okay let's move on for today I didn't say that too clearly but that you can teach someone technique you can teach someone theory mm-hm but can you teach someone to live in the moment good question I don't know I mean how do I tell you of a role of yeah that's because it involves listening yeah right and yet speaking in the same time it's engagement yeah I guess I would say it's reacting to totally musically react to what's happening at the moment as opposed to something that you may have prepared five years ago or something like that I guess I don't know well it's something as we say it's simple it's sound simple you make it sound easy when you do it oh well guys here it was it was a great experience working with Bill Frisell because I had to do a lot of that just listen to what bill did and react to it appropriately and vice versa I think he did the same for me so music is great that way and it gives you a chance to to do that and do you find yourself wanting to surprise bill let's criticize it I do that with you that's it I said I've memorized I probably wouldn't get a straight answer from a very Weber do you enjoy seeing his reaction his facial expressions that's interesting I don't know if I don't even know if I looked at him while we were recording but I'm not sure I want to take that over but I'm sure that it would be fun to see the look of surprise anyway I'll think about that thanks because your music is as Whitney evaluated the sound of surprise surprise right yes sorry so back to Chico and those Los Angeles seizures that's really your first big break where you be coming here to the general public in Chico Hamilton school how did you and Chico first hook up again I was in this big band there once a week thing that my friend Joe Donnelly had and there's a French horn player involve his name was Johnny grass gr AAS and John was going to put together a small group so I went over to John's house to rehearse and I think this was just coincidence [Music] anyway Chico called while I was there and was looking for a guitar player I don't know if I have should ask Chico now if he'd heard of it anyway John says well I have one right here he's just had me the phone it's always kind of that simple and then I went by Chico's house and got to know Chico and I assumed he we talked a bit and maybe played some music together or something and and it was great so the first group was Buddy collect Carson Smith and Fred cats who played cello and piano and I got to write for Chico's group which was good for me because I started a master's in composition back at the Institute and bailed out on that to seek my fortune and loss as it was but that was that was a perfect setting for me right then it sounds fortuitous yeah we're at this rehearsal right I know do you believe in luck I'm not sure of fate I'm not sure if I do or not but I guess I guess in a way I do that good things kind of seek one another out or something like well I hope I assumed it was a good thing yeah and then working with Chico I think we worked opposite Jim Julie a few times and so Jimmy got to hear me and then oh and also that's where I first met Sonny Rollins was with chuckles but we came Joe of course couldn't afford to fly in those days and we drove to did some things along the way and we ended up that in New York after I think was Basin Street Easter one of those clubs in the back road we played opposite Maxwell jazz group which had Sonny Rollins in a Clifford Brown and Richie Powell's playing piano so I got to know Sonny there a little bit and also I knew Clifford I saw Clifford and Ritchie tonight before they lost their lives in that car accident so I guess in a way that was a fortuitous actually it could it was nice you your recordings that you made with Jimmy Dufrene and with Sonny Rollins are highly regarded they hold up very well and in fact everybody I'm sure asks you about those records I want to ask you how you saw them as leaders how would you compare the enemy with Sonny yeah that's it thanks question because I hadn't really thought this through that they were both really helpful to me Jimmy was helpful about specific things about playing the guitar for instance II would he would have something written out for me where I was that I was to either play in unison or something with either his clarinet or he played tenor and baritone as well and he would say he said Jim could you find a different way to play that to leave out some of those pick strokes or play on some heavier strings so it blends with the clarinet so that that was a big lesson for me about a different way to approach guitar playing actually and then so first it was a trio with Ralph Pena on bass and eventually it was a trio with Bob brookmire Bal trombone and Jimmy and me so I played that was the whole I played rhythm guitar sometimes and and Bobby of course is a fantastic musician and friend and so that yeah that it really made me aware of texture and listening and reacting and sunny it was the same in in a different way we would talk about I guess accompaniment and had a great rhythm section with Bob Crenshaw and Ben Reilly can I'm still in touch with all three of them it's funny when I will have worked with it's only was the most taciturn person I think I ever was around for instance we did a piece called John John s period and at the date I said as I said it would that be John s Wilson and was it Sonny said oh it could be that's all he said then years later I saw an article where Sony said that it was about John Coltrane NES was sunny because John Coltrane had helped Sonny financially as done with so but my point is when I was in the hospital Sonny called me one night and we talked for 40 minutes so we're we're still really closer to touch and everything and what are you talk about so you talk about music or do you talk about life ah again that's I think we just a tional II we would reminisce about funny things that happen when we were working together and stuff and more and more is these open of that sort of thing and and then the co Sonny lost his wife few years ago then I think we talked about ever just about every kind of thing I guess and I don't like you and I are talking and we service also yeah conversation yeah right yeah rather than interview yeah buddy but here's an interrogatory your to do it recording uh with Bill Evans you remarkable again you know these are like holy grails for for many guitars and pianist and I know you've said that he inspired you even before you made the oceans can you say in what way he'll inspired you yeah I when I was with Jim Jeffrey for Bob repair it was Bobby Bob Bruckner and Jimmy and me and for a number of weeks I think Bob said it was five maybe eight weeks we worked opposite Miles Davis's group at Cafe Bohemia in the village and we were also doing a show with Mort Sahl at the same time word had this show on Broadway called the next president and so we play the show then we come down the village Bob and Jimmy and me and it was obviously a fantastic group that miles ahead it was Philly Joe Jones on drums Paul James Julia Natalie I mean cannonballs Julian is his name and John Coltrane when John Kelly sorry or was a builder when it bill had just joined a group that's my point so I got to hear the way Bill would accompany and and how I thought if what he brought different to that whole setting of miles his group and how did you say what that is how different he he listened spectacularly and he had just a it wasn't a standard what had become kind of bebop piano at all it was quite different it probably came partly from made to say classical music but that's occasionally he would sound like Debussy or something but he's playing behind Miles Davis but the chord voicings his use of space I thought was marvelous and in and mostly his aware of texture how thick things were whether it needed a chord or not and that's he was very I noticed for instance when we did the duet stuff that bill like me to play rhythm and as soon as I start playing rhythm he would automatically not plan he left hand because that that was my area so that was his his sensitivity to the whole texture he'd figure that that part of the texture is covered you don't need that was there much preparation for this and not really no he came in when I was by then working with Sonny Rollins and he just came in the club when I said do you want to do a duet record so he did it and I do remember going up to his apartment and rehearsing it might have been for the second one we did I'm not sure but I'm sure we did some kind of at least talking things over top of which tunes do you like and all that sitting sort of hanging but if I'd known I'd be talking about this now I probably would have made notes or something would know well that's that's another question when you're involved in these dates especially some of these records are a prize they're considered classics now are you aware of how special they are at the time in the moment or is it just another day in the life of Jim Hall well I wouldn't say well it certainly would have been a special day anyway because I love Bill's playing very much and we were friends a very bright guy with a sense of humor till he's looked on as this tragic figure hunched over the piano but that wasn't him that I knew he had a great sense of humor and meaning he told jokes or he would do funny things musically sometimes and of the object I forget what tune it is what is it that anyway he had hit head would do musical jokes you know this my quotes he wouldn't yeah what was that didn't line Tunisia I guess it has an inner loop Abu do and everybody plays a million notes and Bill would play it for fun and he just go all over the piano hit it with his elbows everything so I don't think there was a lot of preparation it was mostly just just talking getting to know one another I think you better well here's the part of the interview where I recite a quote about yoga at your reaction gate to The New Yorker called you a poetic player who says more with fewer notes than any living improviser so I'm wondering is this a conscious approach for you or is it just something that you do naturally it's a company not sure probably has something to do with my personality I guess but no first of all I don't have believe it or not after all these years I don't have fantastic facility on the guitar especially now after this operation what does that mean by the way are there things you think of that you can't play that's a good question too uh I'm not sure about all that except I know that I try to listen to what's happening in the overall texture and just add something to it rather than taking over and making everything different I try to enhance the the moment of it I guess and ER the way I felt that Miles Davis did too that felt like he could say so much with just one or two knows it was really to me very profound by the way you've mentioned Myles a few times he's one of the only people you know you played with so many yeah and you said that he's one of the people that you wanted to play with but never was able to we were wondering did he ask you or what were the circumstances behind that why didn't you ever play yeah he did call twice and one time I actually went to the record date some he was doing with Gil Evans I'm not sure and then after I got there things were confused and ended up they did use guitar and then he called me again [Music] quite a while later and by then I was it sounds negative I guess what I had been doing the Merv Griffin Show for years and I literally felt like I was out of music it was a I was just sitting there it was an interesting show we had interesting guests but the music was pretty dreadful in I didn't feel qualified to do it then I felt like so I told him to call George Benson which he did well I know that yeah right so what's funny you mentioned Merv Griffin yeah that's probably the first time I had seen you on television I just actually watch the show yeah because the band was sometimes featured in the video Jack Sheldon was there sometimes Ray Brown was there throughout yeah it was really a great who is the leader was it more Lindsay it was more Lizzie yeah so would you play anything hip while they're at commercial or something ah what goes on behind the scenes Kingsley I guess yeah but well I'll give you the gist of it and the way I have the guitar still that I played it on that show and I was looking at it not too long ago and I noticed there's kind of a spot right where the neck meets the body of the guitar up high here there's a spot where all the finish is worn off mister how did that and then I remembered there were hours spent just with my son in a war the village oh so anyway miles call me while I was doing that you and I I just didn't think I said I don't know if I want to record with my hero one of my heroes right now so yeah I never got to work with him but it sure was a big influence in a lot of ways many guitarists who who actually study your music and a little better your recordings they remark on the you deal with time or the chances you take the way your swing is it's like a gym Hall approach or disinterest and I'm wondering can you teach someone to swing I don't know well that's curious that's great what my free association I guess I my mind went to Freddie green who was one of my heroes and I got to know Freddie a bit not real well but I always wished I'd asked him more questions like that because I just I heard the Basie band a couple times when Freddie was sick he wasn't there it was fantastic band but it just it's not the same it was the disabled of Freddie so I did you ever play that kind of rhythm guitar a bit yeah is it harder than it sounds or I want to let you put it this way what's the challenge in playing that kind of style if it's right it feels great that's that's one thing it feels good it's like they're boys it's like a it's like a warm bath on a cold night or something in vice versa I would say to kind of hook up with with the rhythm section and and move things forward to make the make the music feel like it wants to go to the next beat and that's other thing I guess imagine how much of that is a matter of sort of personality listening and how much of it is like having it in your hands yeah harlots your your can you teach it I guess it's what camaraderie and listening and I want to make things feel better and so say yeah let's you know let's move ahead with this something like that so it's an interesting question there's one of things I love about den Riley's drum playing that's why I had called him not too long ago because I was listening again to the Sony Vaio's record by Ben just had a way when I played with Ben it felt like the quarter note had so much more space just by the way he would hit the cymbals or something I don't know what it was I mean while the time is moving beautifully to the next quarter note so I'm not sure what that is probably all wrapped up in personality and the things we've been talking about previously one thing that might be interesting for those who were going to watch this interview there's an assumption that jazz musicians only listen to jazz mm-hmm right and so I was intrigued when I heard you were coming and we spoke the other day and I said are there any things that you would like to see any other treasures and you mentioned Bela Bartok right so why Bartok what is it what do you love about bartók's music um so much it's interesting like he when I got into the Cleveland as to the music he I discovered him he was nothing till they discovered and I just got fascinated by yeah well first of all it was was pretty far out it still is in a lot of ways in the best sense of the word do you mean harmonically he just yeah harmonically and he would take all kinds of chances if you listen to all the string court as you can see how he developed all that and he was he and Zoltan Kodaly evidently were very interested in Hungarian folk music so I'm sure well I imagine a lot of this stuff is kind of maybe comes from that but he seemed to be moving forward all the time and it wasn't as difficult to to feel and to get quote into as Schoenberg and people like that it was more it folksy in a lot of ways and ahead it had a human appeal and a heartbeat and all that sort of thing and yet it was pretty quote far-out unquote to I just really loved it I still do were there specific pieces that drew you the to Orchestra concertos that I can charity is the two things for orchestra the route that I know but when one was it one was concerto for Strings percussion and cellist I really love that can you say why there's a beautiful melodies in it and interesting I haven't heard them for a while either one of those conservatives but for some reason that second one that I mentioned for Strings percussion in chillest I love and yet there's a couple of really lovely melodies involved in it and yet it gets very quote far-out I hate that term far out but very thinking another way to say it kind of stimulating mentally and it's you won't fall asleep listening to it are they you when you listen to music is it for pleasure or are you analyzing a probably pleasure and I'm hoping that will sink it if it's something that I'm enjoying it'll sink in and give me some good but I generally don't listen to guitar players partly because then I think boy I wish I could do that and it starts to get at yzm except that that young man element and earlier Julian laws is so inspiring because it doesn't sound like Bebop or anything it just sounds like he's pushing the envelope even or whatever one says about that further so I'm sure that anything that you hear kind of sinks in and you do you do listen to it maybe analytically in a certain sense but it starts out just being for pleasure and if it's stupid music you just hope turn it off as I'm going to try not to hear it again I wonder if you're aware of the impact that you've had I mean they're generated several generations of musicians in fact if you go to the Berklee College of Music or there are dozens of young guitarists who are going through the program and they know all your stuff remember they've transcribed your solos they've listened to the recordings and I just wonder if you're aware of your stature oh no I hope I again it's a part of my wish and need to live in a moment I just sort of hope that that I'm thinking about this evening's performance at the moment not literally thinking about it but I got together with the man earlier today named Fred Karns who took lessons with me years ago and I we had kind of lost touch and it's marvelous guy really bright does all kinds of things and we were talking this inverse ation and but I guess it a quick answer would be no I'm not well I just I heard you talk about the impact that that Charlie Christian soul oh yeah right yeah Grand Slam and surely people are feeling that way about some of your recorder younger here today and so there's a kind of continuum oh I see what you mean yeah but unfortunately Charlie Christian I think was already gone by the time I heard the record he died very young with are not 40s yeah I wish I could've known him it's nice to hear that the press is the Bill Evans records I still feel good about I actually have a copy of undercurrent still and I have heard it okay is it difficult for you to listen to your own stuff yeah it is why well not so much if it's a long time ago it but if it's recent stuff I'm still kind of second-guessing myself and but this things with Bill or maybe with Sonia I guess because it's it still you I heard recently heard a record I had done with our farmer in the 70s and it's called big blues and I actually said well Jim so good on that thing so but in general it is kind of difficult because I start second-guessing yourself I guess you you forgive yourself after world look do a lot of creative people have this yeah again I remember hearing Jackie Gleason say when he would watch his show he would never watch himself he was always watching what somebody else that make sense to be yeah yeah yeah it's good um are you a discipline person either when it comes to music or otherwise I did a wouldn't know they in fact a interesting question in train of thought Elliott Carter lives right down the block for me and his collection is here it's quite old I thought that it is I never thought of that well he's a hundred years old isn't he just turned 100 and I don't really know him but we see each other occasionally on the street and he I guess he knows I'm involved in music because of kaznia I'll say Andre Previn says solo or something like that you know a seems like a great guys really brightening but sometimes I'll be at home and I'll be thinking about but he kind of writes him and I can't I said come on man you got a hundred-year-old band down the block it he's writing all of that so discipline if I have a deadline as a appropriate terminal I've looked a piece for Orchestra a few years ago you turn that is for the Baltimore Symphony and I had it was a deadline and so I was able to or get up at 6:00 and start writing every day because I was no other choice that deadline is an appropriate term in a way but in general well the guitar isn't isn't too difficult that way because it kind of draws me to it to play it but I think in a certain sense discipline probably is difficult yeah what do you say I'm curious about your relationship with the guitar yeah playing it for so long yeah is forgiving instrument ah good question it's still hard for me to tune it believe it or not yeah why what's hard about turning it because it sounds different in every key I think in fact I remember talking with Jerry Galbraith about that was a dear friend and Barry did a lot of studio work and and did you probably you know guitars tuned with these silly open strings Ian and Barry said if I tuned up to a the way everybody does he said I'll get all my open strings in tune and then but as soon as I play in a flat key the guitars completely out of tune so Barry would always tune up to be flat or something like that so that's what I meant by its unforgiving you might get it in tune and E major and it sounds terrible in in b-flat major is only yeah but you've you've been in your recovery you haven't been playing quite as much right so when you do pick up the guitar is it familiar is it something that you actually have to work to build up the memory in your fingers I've had I've had to work end up what's happening my left hand I think maybe partly from having used Walker's and stuff because the this gets a little get some soreness and there so I make sure that my hands I've warmed up under warm water and everything before I I'll start playing that so just like Glen cold yeah that's right yeah he did that too have you ever felt blocked creatively that's an interesting quote um I'm not sure that again Trainor thought out a book about Stravinsky and I remember that his quote he said something what he would start writing everything if he couldn't think of it just to keep the pencil or the pen moving he would write he's a name then he'd write it upside down it but just to keep things moving so I have done stuff like that sometimes I'll just start for instance when I had to go to the hospital not too long ago for some exam so I took a bunch of music paper and I just started scribbling away just to get the pencil moving but you just write when you compose is it just sitting at a desk or you with your instrument or at a piano or it's all three if it's something that usually if it's something that more than a 12-bar blues a lot of times I'll make a sketch first almost the way a painter would out like I want for instance with the orchestra piece I knew that out I wanted an introduction and then when the orchestra when the guitar came in his guitar and orchestra I wanted it to be a nice surprise or almost made a sketch of the dynamics how loud I wanted to start and then build here and it set up the thing with the guitar comes in BAM so it was like a blueprint in a way that I did first for this thing we were talking a little bit earlier about sort of analyzing music yeah and I can't help but note that your wife is a singer and a songwriter right and but she's also a cyclist was right and I wondered if she's ever analyzed your creative personality also asked probably had ever talked about this I'm not really odd but she does notice obviously if I'm not being productive in that sort of thing and I'll give her a call later today see what she says you okay um we were discussing how you react to listening to your music yeah or listening to your performances but there's a really intriguing documentary film that was made about you quite recently it's called Jim Hall a life and progress wrote and I wonder how you feel about watching yourself on film not too comfortable about that either really the thing that I do like about that film is that John Lewis was in it and I think that hands off even said a few things in there so I like it that I got to talk with John and who also had a dog named Jango but Django is our dog's name Sandler was nice and I had written an arrangement of jangle which is John Lewis's composition and John liked it so yeah I thought I'm sure probably I don't know about you but yeah it's difficult to look at your cell phone because your second guess sorry probably yeah something like that well it's it's a really interesting glimpse or especially for those studying your music it's one thing to read the notes on the page yeah it's another to listen to a sound recording yeah but there's something further still when you actually see you holding your instrument or it's revealing interesting yeah what will if it were the other way around if I will get get to watch bela bartok composing or playing the piano as a well that's great let me see that again you know in Bela Bartok obviously would you turn that off please yeah probably I guess we're all self-conscious iPads it yeah that's a good term right I know that um you played at the White House I should ask you to remember the first time you came to Washington to play I know I was here with art farmer so it'd be early 60s yeah and with Sonny Rollins we were in Washington to that a club or concert with art I know it was a club I don't know if I played it with Chico Hamilton and I in a word no I don't remember specifically the first time did you know any of the Washington DC guitarist Charlie bird or a Charlie Harris sorry Bill Harris or sophocles Pappas or Charlie brood I knew slightly or maybe just over the phone I'm not even true well so I was about to ask you about this Ellington birthday celebration yeah white house yeah you were part of this incredible all-star band that was here together and there what there has in fact been a recording it was issued yeah of that night but I have a feeling that you were not the biggest fan of Richard Nixon thank you I was trying to figure out how am I gonna say this and so I wonder how you felt about being there that night I'm sure you loved Duke yeah exactly but then how do you reconcile that with you I wasn't going to go a bunch of us were in a Leonard garment it was one of the week his brother Charlie was a close friend in fact Charlie was the best man at our wedding Charlie darling [Music] anyway the Jerry Mulligan wrote some nice arrangement Joe Williams sang Paul Desmond was in the group Hank Jones Milt Hinton oh but I was not going to go then I rationalized that I guess I said what was not his White House it's it's our White House and I want to see it and Jane got to go and I loved Duke so I said I'll go but I won't shake his hand so there was a receiving line to meet him I can actually say Nixon this other guy's name I can't even say still the one who just left yeah oh yeah but so I pretended I had something to do and then at the end he Nixon jumped up on the stage and ship everybody's hand and I could I wasn't ready for that so I actually did shake his hand no I did not and I just absolutely Duke was so great he looked like he should be living in the White House you know I haven't some pictures of my wife Janie dancing with Duke Ellington at the White House and all that so it was a great evening and it was great being around Paul Desmond and Mulligan but I understand one or more of the musicians objected to the recording being released here are many years yeah was that you yes and why because what we just said I'll be in the mixin yeah and also we went to was going to be recorded imagine that it was because it was at Voice of America or recording it probably up I hadn't even thought of that it was Conover and Wallace was there and I got this close my interview I got this letter from I guess it was Leonard garment he said dear Jim it was not a marvelous time we had at the White House boiling it it said it's all been recorded and it's going to be so I wrote back and I said as your friend I'm sorry to tell you I don't want my name on my music involved in this anyway so I refuse like four years and I and then it came up it finally came out I just and I call so I called Stanley Crouch actually who's involved in the Lincoln Center thing that calls on frozen desert health so Stanley sort of said well they're going to put it out eventually anyway after you're gone and and I think nothing's I didn't play too well on that so I did part I find that hard to believe ah I remember playing I think was in the sentimental mood as a duet with Milligan and Duke Ellington was sitting there and it's his tuna and I played a wrong chord on it I hope that after was this oh man that's the wrong harmonization too but yeah but that was a kind of a stunning evening and it was great being around Paul and as I said my wife Jane got to go home are you politically aware I mean and do you think musicians or artists should be I wasn't until till the Vietnam War started I think I think I was kind of tuned out all that but when people start killing one another with no end in sight for for no really logical reason that does tend to get more attention I think and not only that I having played music with people from all these countries and just it's beautiful and it's a beautiful people all over the world yeah it does make you I guess feel politically aware in its sense and I keep looking up that term political to and I'm still not sure what that means what politics means but shortly there's politics and music in what sense you mean dealing with the business and how decisions are made and how gatekeepers operate you know what kind of opportunities arise because of non musical factors so that's a good point I think you I got to go twenty trainer thought I got I've never been to China but I got to go to Seoul to South Korea and it was a great experience that people were marvelous it was right before we started this war in Iraq they had a huge peace march with some of the same size that we did and all and I think just having traveled so much and being around different cultures and different people it does make one wonder how people quote in charge of governments make this incredibly bad decision so often and sometimes not only bad but calculatingly malicious decisions and so yeah I guess one does you get to be politically aware or at least idea justjust from that I think so we're here in Washington attack we're right across the street from the United States Capitol yeah and we're just down the street from the White House yeah if you had a chance to talk to President Obama what would you want to talk to him about oh just that's interesting not I almost get teared up thinking about what would a marvel to stay there was the UH Nagarajan day I think I was more touched by the people down there just looking just I just would want to wish him well he's really taken over when we were in the toilet from the last eight years and he's got so much we're so beautiful to to see that happen though that obviously I in a way I hate the term african-american anybody if you no matter I'm an American you're in America doesn't matter where you from but if you have black blood in you you're always african-american but it was just it's my african-american friends musicians arginine oh we talk about this and we talk about the old days which weren't that long ago when when I they couldn't be served in the same restaurant with me and that sort of thing so we'd all have to leave and I don't know all that is wrapped up out I would just sort of shake his hand I say okay let's I know time is sort of running out yeah I want to sort of close with a couple questions here and the first is when I asked you when you knew that music would be your life and you imagined your life as a musician maybe when you were younger or maybe periodically throughout your life how different is the reality from what you imagined them to be I'm not sure really and again I'm not sure that I ever thought of what it would be like I'm sure I had heroes that I admire tonight and I thought about then and I got to play with the number of them can you talk just about what your life has been like in music yeah it's been pretty incredible actually and people that have gotten to know and to play with and just be able to keep doing fortunately Janie my wife helps she had to support us this last year because I've been laid up here with this injury it's been very rewarding I don't really think that through too often so in a way I'm glad you asked that so but no I couldn't either again I get I guess I do live in a moment in a certain sense for instance I can't really tell you what tonight's concert gonna be like I hope it'll be something like an grin about later on and evening when you decide on stage what songs are going to play or do you have a setlist well I have had you know that I always have to do that ahead of time but otherwise you're up they said what do you want to play another guy says I don't know they already says who cares so I always have a list and then I'll change it if it feels like it needs changing just to have some variety and some surprises and that sort of thing ok so here's here's sort of the kicker okay the big question what kind of strings to where you okay if you want to are you can bill Islam in 12-step programs people talk about taking things one day at a time yeah but you say you take things one note at a time that's good yeah so tell us what does this music your music mean to you well my music mean to me [Music] well what came to mind is that it is me actually which is good for me to remember it means a way of communicating and I hope bringing something decent to possibly to the world was certainly - to whom whomever is listening or whoever making things a little better maybe than they were the note before or something like that I hope I just may be making things better one note at a time all I can say the world is better for having you been in it oh thank you that's lovely thank you very much Jim Hall thank you sir this has been a presentation of the Library of Congress visit us at loc.gov

Channel: Library of Congress

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Keywords: library, congress, music

Id: HCOIDcm8BLg

Length: 57min 32sec (3452 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 14 2010