J. Cole sits down with Bob Myers | Lead by Example

believe it you know I mean like like see all the time and believe it and and whatever you got to do to protect that belief my version of protecting that belief was I wasn't sharing this yeah telling my mom she knew I raped you know I did music and to her don't let somebody knock you off I'm not even gonna get my own mother the chance to try to bring me back down to reality it's not gonna happen [Music] lead by Bob Myers presented for the People by Caesar's Sportsbook you bet you get with Caesar's rewards must be 21 or older welcome to lead by example I'm your host Bob Myers today J Cole hey appreciate it what's popping man how you doing so you and I saw each other um Bruce my first time I met you was on the phone yeah and somebody said would you want to talk to you and I'm thinking like what what's this thing going to say for sure and uh what what struck me a little bit was this guy he loves he loves basketball and everybody a lot of people walk around say I love basketball you actually you can kind of feel it does that does that ring true to you nah yeah I love it for sure uh even right now as we speak like I probably haven't played uh in week and a half maybe going on two weeks and I you know I I feel the missing of it you know what I mean like I feel the missing of it but you know I love to watch too but really it's playing it's playing yeah for sure so growing up you had um your mom and your brother right and that was it and you were born in German you were born overseas yeah I was born in Germany uh my mother and my father were together and then uh you know like relatively early you know I don't even think I was one before they like split up yeah um so yeah I was born in Germany people think I'm German that's the other thing though people think I'm German the other thing people think my mom is German she's not German like I think if you go to like Wikipedia or something yeah you know I'll be clear that up I'll meet random people it's been years though by the way I've never actually had even a moment to say it because it never came up but uh it's been years and somebody had come up to me like bro my mom's German too I'm like bro my mom's not German like let me get this from Michigan yeah um but she was in the Army she she went to the Army when she was like soon as she turned 18 she kind of like got out of town went to the Army uh met my my dad in Germany because he was he's from Arkansas yeah so they just like two kids like yeah well one from from Michigan one from Arkansas and uh they both left like as soon as they could they got out of their hometowns and like you know met each other in Germany had my older brother had me and then shortly after they had me like within a year uh we were back in the States so like as a kid I was always self-sufficient I wasn't needy of of another person's attention or boom boom now sometimes I wonder if that's because you know being the second kid and just being a kid to a a young mother you know what I mean and a young father and then she would she would have a boyfriend and this would be a young stepfather eventually sometimes I wonder if it's just being a kid of young parents if you just naturally learn uh you know don't expect you know don't don't don't expect nobody's gonna ain't nobody coming to save you you know what I mean you know it's also a lot of parents won't let that happen to their kid they don't let their kids grow they they save them all the time so you kind of have the opposite that's real you're kind of like uh yes complete opposite I have a very long time no I missed that part like like this I mean you didn't need it didn't happen no I the discipline that I had it depends on what type of discipline like you had to step out of line like something in your life as a kid who who grabbed you and said you can't do that oh uh disciplinary action what was the dumbest stupidest thing you did I was when at six years old I was smoking cigarettes regularly around the neighborhood how does that even have like just being around the neighborhood so you're six or six months the thing was my uh my brother's four years older than me almost four years and he's ten he's smoking too no that's the wild thing he it was just I was always hanging around the older kids in the neighborhood that he was hanging around and they were smoking and I was young and fearless in in and trying to be cool so it was like it was oh y'all smoking like let me see that yeah you know what I mean and of course we're all out there kind of like young parents with like long leashes not like my mom knew I was doing this my mom comes from a town first of all my mom got 10 brothers and sisters okay she comes from a man or maybe nine brothers and sisters she comes from a massive family with a single mother that type of broken home type of thing where they all raised each other and she comes from a small town where it was like yo you leave your door unlocked she comes from uh uh where you can let your kid like I was out and she and and she allowed me that probably like she was just out there um and I think back then it was a little probably a little safer to be just out roaming so while I'm out Roman of course moment has no clue that her six-year-old son I mean if I see a six-year-old it's wow I'm looking at that kid going this kid has no shot it's crazy so nobody nobody nobody said hey no see that's the life-changing moment this was literally a life-changing moment I guess it's kind of getting to what you're asking I literally remember you know I'm six years old I'm like I'm smoking with these uh with these kids in the neighborhood that are older than me and you know to them it's funny you know these are they're 10 themselves so it's funny for them to see like nobody's really worried about me like don't do that you know I mean they just like they're 10 and smoking cigarettes yeah they're not it's not like they're gonna say hey man um so I'm smoking with these older kids move on this is going on for two three weeks or something and one day I'm down the street at a house where it was happening at and uh my brother my brother comes up and I asked one of our homeboys in the neighborhood I'm like yo you got any cigarette I'm six yeah trying to be cool I'm like you got any cigarettes my brother hears this for the first time because he didn't know what was going on my brother hears it he's like he's like uh you're like what are you talking about like you mean shut like he's shut up that was my brother's name shut up shut up like uh he likes me shut up like talking about I'm like now I'm like oh you don't know you know no I'm like yo yo tell him don't I be smoking don't always smoking like proud of you like trying to be cool and uh and so they confirmed it it was like yeah he'd be smoking um so right away I'm in looking back in retrospect I'm so grateful my brother did this and at the time I was so like uh I was so I felt so like it was treason but my brother was like he was like I'm telling Mom and he walked home and I'm so I'm six of course I'm dumb yeah but but I'm like I don't care like like at six years old already I was like are you gonna go and tell Mom and then I'm she's gonna ask me and I'm gonna say I don't smoke yeah I saw it you saw that I saw it in my mom's I'm just gonna say I don't smoke so this is how dumb I am uh now the cigarettes are available I go into the backyard right at this time and we start smoking a cigarette and I'm I'm being cool and so my brother about I don't know 20 minutes later something uh walks to the backyard where we was at and he was like Jermaine he was like Mom wants to see you I'm like all right like I'm like okay like all right so what so I'm walking home no fear I have no uh there's no worry no worry at all nothing's gonna happen and I'll walk in the house and uh she's like Jermaine I'm like yeah yeah mom and she's like what's this I hear about you smoking cigarettes I'm like huh you know I'm like huh she's like come here and I walk up close to her she was like say something I was like what do you mean say something and when I said it she bent down yeah and you know she smelled this uh this cigarette smoke on my breath and I this was the life-changing moment right here because I saw her face yeah when she's when she smelled like cigarettes on my breath her face was like it was like heartbroken it was disbelief it was like crushed yeah yeah I remember to look on her face and she was like you have been smoking like it hit her like that her baby I'm the youngest of two that her baby who's six egg is capable of smoking cigarettes and B capable of lying dead to her face about it yeah so it it uh it hit her and I I'm pretty sure and my mom was not the type to give the weapons that would like be relegated to my stepfather down the line but I think I got one right then and there because it was just like an emergency situation that I feel like she had to do but honestly I don't even remember the whipping because matter of fact I know she gave me a weapon because my my uh my her boyfriend who would end up becoming my stepfather came home and he usually was like disciplinarian and he was like when he when he told me he was like I heard about what happened he was like I'm not going to whip you because I heard your mom already did it so she must have whooped me but my point is I don't remember that part yeah yeah all I remember was her face yeah and the reason why I think that that was a life-changing moment to where after that I didn't need much correction I became a self-corrector is because that was the first time that I became aware that like oh my actions my actions can hurt someone else like things that I do my decisions can hurt somebody else you know I mean not just they say that a kid doesn't even develop that until like 10 11 12 like that to think outside of them right so to get that at six to be like whoa obviously you were like growing up diff I mean that wasn't to figure that out first of all to be smoking at six it's like that's a whole difference it's blowing my mind I mean and then to remember I don't know if your reaction was when you say you moved other people was it like I I I feel bad that I hurt my mom or was it I really screwed up I don't know how a six-year-old even does that I I think it was you know this person I really uh love and care about I let him down I uh I lied blatantly yeah you know what I mean and I was doing something disaster kid yeah yeah it was crazy uh but but uh so you had to so that so then from there you learned that was a moment for you like I I you all are you you remember that seven years later you got some big thing in my life that never went away yeah and then and then so your mom so your brother had a part your mom when I talked to you when we met I asked you about when you you thought you were I don't know if music came first as a Love or basketball which one which one was was it um when you when you realized I mean it depends because like like making music you mean or like versus playing here's the only way I can relate to it because I don't have two things I don't know if you feel like you have two things it seems like you do it seems like you love basketball obviously I love music I don't know if you rank them um I only know when people ask me about basketball it's when I answer that I say it's the only thing I know in life it's the only thing I know and I say when I'm driving my car and I see a basketball hoop or a game of Two on Two or one-on-one or three on three or at the park and I can't not look I can't I have to so I can't not be around basketball so that's the only way I know how to describe basketball but when you say music or basketball a lot of the players I'm around want to be musicians a lot of musicians probably basketball but I don't know if you can equally love those two things the same yeah but you're one that I don't I mean I don't know you tell me no I understand your question I think I think my first uh My First Love meaning as a kid four or five years old it was music before I loved listening to music pretending that I'm Bobby Brown or pretending that I'm Michael Jackson I love that first and foremost I remember that I had the Michael Jackson tape at four years old I had a Bobby Brown tape at four years old I just remember the love of listening to music then basketball came years later because just like yo everybody around the neighborhoods playing basketball I'm of course you're a kid everybody's going to the NBA and their mind that was me but I think actual love that from what from what you're saying I'm clarifying it in my mind now actual first love because to me love is like it's an action you know what I mean like it's it's an it's an action word in a sense where it's like uh it doesn't have to just be an action word but but in the sense of this question I see as an act as an action word so even when I was playing basketball it was delusion it was like I thought that I was just like a six-year-old that thinks he's going to the NBA there's there's you have Steph Curry that maybe thought he was going to the NBA and and and had a good reason to think so maybe had maybe had early skills and early signs yeah his dad played right so it's like like I can do this yeah it's not far-fetched but then you have me at six yeah I'm going to the NBA it's like you're on no path you don't have the early skills or early signs it's just a delusion so I think my love for basketball yes I love playing I was highly competitive but my love was not in the form of work I didn't have anybody to show me if you really love this thing and you really want to go do it here's how you express your love for it and this is how you get to where you want to go I didn't have that I had like I'm it was really play you know it was it was and it wasn't it wasn't love is like hard in a sense you know it's like a fan like having kids having a wife having a husband pain it's work it's discipline it's sacrifice and the first thing I ever did that for in my life was was music and did you think that you had us a chance in music did you know because I'm around um you wonder why people this yours your children I you know talk to other musicians they're children's and musicians they believe there's somebody that showed them this is possible and they're around it and then they think well my dad did it okay no big deal same as the NBA you got a lot of players that's parents played and once you break through that I I can do this too yeah it actually there's momentum to that yeah so your kids you probably already know this their chances of being in music are exponentially great whether they're Talent just because they know Dad does this yeah so what made you think the music could be that for you or did you not think that way I did I had to lose him and I but was it really delusion because you talk about NBA delusion you go that's just a dream every six but you thought it was the same for music I'm talking about as soon as I started as soon as I ever wrote my first rap ice I'm the type of person where like uh you mean you had delusion like I can do that in a good way yeah yeah because I'm hearing it like okay good because you said delusion with you okay I viewed delusion in two ways okay one this person has no clue they're nowhere near what okay okay other delusion that I view is not in a negative I got you have to have a delusion about basketball yes my the losing about basketball was was was well they were both equal I got you they were both they were both equally far-fetched but they were both necessary I see if unless if Steph Curry is not delusion he's his father is going yeah yeah but maybe Allen Iverson is delusional you know I mean maybe that's delusion like you don't have the size you don't have a father who's XYZ yeah so but but but regardless I think that anybody that's shooting for something extremely High you have to start with a little irrational or little irrational because if you were to let logic or rationality you wouldn't make it because too many everything obstacles yes the numbers I can't do that the odds are in your favor but uh but but to your question the delusion about music I'm honestly that person till this day and it's a it's a it's I really I really appreciate it the strength it's a strength when I when I start something if I golf I golf for the first time seriously like me and me and my friends really had like a competitive outing I don't golf yeah but I like saw Improvement in the day and then in the next day so my mind instantly goes to I still have the same delusion from when I was six and twelve my mind instantly goes to I wonder how good I could get if I did this every day but how good could I get could I and I shoot for the highest thing that my mind will allow me to acceptable level of delusion and then I try to say well maybe I'll get to that you know and maybe I won't but but I start with a seed of delusion so basketball was like that it didn't pan out because I mean when you were 12 or 13 or 14 when you started thinking about light like they asked kids what you want to be would you have checked or would you have thought rational was it would it start feeling like music is a better path for you or was it always just like basketball's there because you told me you got cut from your team yeah and that was the moment where it was a shock it was a shock to you yep and then you told me what you did with it yeah I cut twice from knife until great yeah and that's crazy and you were just how does this happen to me my first time yeah I'm kind of like this isn't yeah I'm supposed to be oh man me yeah I had no uh no uh what do you call organized basketball experience outside of wreck I didn't play middle school because my middle school didn't have a team on some little specialized middle school did they try for the first time so yeah when I got cut my ninth grade year I'm looking around like like like how are you gonna cut me yeah instead of looking in the mirror like bro you're not even really that good like I started making excuses oh but I'm better than this guy better than this guy it wasn't until the next year when I got cut again whereas I first time I had to look in the mirror like oh yeah why did you get cut oh you never worked you didn't you did you I was told you to figure that out yeah yeah yeah it wasn't like a coach where you go coach the coach goes you don't even practice you don't even play it you don't even try it was you yes I had to real I mean yeah I had to get punched in the face two times that was when gut those were I love basketball so much and my delusion was high so so to get cut from the team was a was a gut punch you know I mean I literally could have cried when I looked at the when I went and looked at the list and my name wasn't on there it was like you know and so the second time now I'm so grateful that I got put I got punched in the face twice because I was like well wait a minute if I only got punched that one time and I know some people in my life they get punched at one time that's it they'll never go try out again the pain of that was too much to ever go back yeah I'm so grateful it was like nah I'm gonna go back I'm gonna try again and I got cut again and it was the world saying well well of course you got cut like I had to take a look in the mirror but to your question though I forgot to mention this where did the delusion come from I think I think I really believed you know when your parents tell you you can do anything you could be anybody my mom was big on that okay actually she was big on like filling me with with uh you can do whatever you know what you mean that's a big thing like that's a big yeah a lot of people um go the other way with that that's interesting that you're my like you remember that that part about you can do this you can go do this man you could be it wasn't anything specific were you like I know when you heard that we're like oh yeah yeah or was it incurred did you need that I I felt like I knew but but it helps mom but I but but honestly I mean I was five six seven eight years old I think she was yeah she was hitting me she was she was like implanting that in me so it was like but I think the confidence I had was quiet if you would have asked me when I was 13 14 15 16 17 what I what I was gonna do I would have never said out loud I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be around I would have never told you that because I didn't I believed it but I why wouldn't you tell me because I knew that you wouldn't believe and I didn't want anything that you were negative I didn't because if you tell me and I go come on you're not going to do that yes you don't want to hear that I wouldn't even tell I wouldn't even I wouldn't even tell my mom like I went to school at St John's um because in my mind I'm like at this time that music industry was way different and the music industry was in New York yeah that was it that's why I went to St John's because in my mind it was a quiet play of I'm doing music at a high level I know this is what I want to do I have to be around the music industry delusion I thought it would tell anybody that why you chose no that's what I'm saying I never nobody no brother no nobody no no no no it's all inside every time I'm on like is she the one that had to pay for the school you know I mean I was just like I want she knew I wanted to go to New York but she I never said yeah I never said out loud I want to go to New York because I'm going to be right next to the music industry and I'm gonna make it happen I was like yo I have to keep all of this and then you do that right and you're there and what was the first time you got recognition for what you were doing in a way where you could say yeah did you ever did something happen where your first album or mixtape where then you could say yeah this is what I'm doing in basketball I never had any evidence that I was as good as I thought I did okay never like like I could I guess average guys I could dominate but there was never a time where I went against the best player on the high school team or you could really see it in music or in rapping at 13 14 15 16 and my whole teenage years I got that validation constantly because I would always go up because it's a rap scene in Fayetteville where I'm from yeah lots of you know lots of kids my age rapping all over the city kids older than me rapping in every situation around the city where there was a cipher a ciphers a bunch of dudes in a circle taking turns rapping right somebody might be beatboxing or maybe there's no beat and everybody takes turns rapping every one of those moments I got in which was frequent maybe uh at least one night a week sometimes two nights a week in different little locations maybe it's at the movies maybe it's at the high school game maybe it's in the hallway of the of the high school gym maybe it's at the skating rink yeah every time one of them situations popped up and I stepped in it was complete validation because the reaction was insane you know that it was it was it was probably what the top guys in basketball would feel when they're when they're you know so you knew you got that but I knew I had something I like how you were you used the word delusional in a positive way so you that that that made you what you are right that belief but then you're getting it in music um in the ciphers and where you are in basketball you're kind of like well that'll come later or you kind of know at that time I think I think around well first of all I get couples yeah I get cut twice I know I'm not yeah okay there's no party here no now I recognize now I recognize the mountain that I got a client yeah my delusion it was more realistic at this point it was do I want to climb this mountain as a kid that just got cut two times from the team and had to work by the time I was a senior I was starting I had to work my way up to there do I want to continue to climb to be a college walk-on to go from a college I saw my I saw my future like yo like if I work hard enough because now I understand in basketball I understand the power of hard work if I work hard enough I could I could walk onto a team I believe in my ability to at least walk onto a team but then if I work hard enough could I get some consistent playing time by the time I'm a senior if I do that could I then go overseas keep working and be one of these like I remember Jamario Moon's name at the time I always like like came out of nowhere played in Mad leagues but you could tell to have that level of determination yeah it's like it's like Gary Payton in seconds like it's like you you you just have a level of determination and I saw that for myself possibly in basketball but then I saw in music it was I can't couldn't do both So eventually at some point it was not young yeah exactly when was the moment where you said This is Gonna Be My Life this is my my career I can do this and it you just knew that or did you always there's no other option that was just was the I was always it that was gonna happen that was gonna happen there was no was there anybody that anybody that you respected when they said to you hey you're you're great at like was there one moment where somebody some some kind of like reaction to what you did some person coming up to you oh lots of those when I was a you know all of those moments I told you about in the ciphers when I would just you know say a line and the whole Cipher would disperse like it's like a movie moment like eight mile or something oh those were validation moments there's a group in Fayetteville called bomb shelter that that when I was 14 15 I linked up with because I was like yo they they're from my city they do professional sound of music and they was they were amazing to me so the first time I went over there and recorded a song and I saw everybody's reaction to the song that I recorded with more validation when I played this song for my friends you know I mean and I got the reaction from them more validation when did it become this mute like I gotta um there's there's the part where you just love love doing what you're doing and then you realize I gotta how am I gonna what what image who am I going to be in this business like what do I want to be how do I stay true to what you do because I'm sure a lot of people are telling you you got to do this you gotta do that and it seems to me I know you not super well but a little bit you're kind of like you're pretty strong about this is what I'm doing I can hear what you have to say but I'm going this way and that seems not that hard for you but I don't want to diminish with all the polling that you had you got to do this you got to do that it seems to me you're pretty centered and peaceful in what you choose but there's got to be pressure and that should I be doing this should I be doing that and then you get more successful and then more people are telling you how to live how to be how do you kind of stay with you uh I mean I had to learn that lesson obviously Through The Years you know I was very confident in the beginning a very like sure myself um and sure of like like the things that me and my team are excited about I got a partner Eve you might eat um and and we've been rocking like this from from very early on so I was very confident in that in the beginning and then you know you get you get a few projects in or out you know the pressure starts to build it's not going exactly how you want it to go and then and then the pressure hits you know like like when the pressure hits that's that's do you remember when that happened was there like a moment what was it I mean it was it was a it was a it was a uh it was over a number of years yeah it took me a while to even recognize it yeah but it was I was always feeling it but it became it took me a while to recognize that oh wait this has been here for a few years you know I mean this this thing but once I once I felt that um this was like maybe two albums and once I felt that the minute I recognized that this this feeling this pressure have been causing me to move a certain way and make certain decisions once I became fully aware of it and like had that honest conversation with myself now it became like the remedy steps you know I mean like okay well what do you do about this how do you fix this and that answers your question about that's when I began to move more true to get back in tune with what's true to me what was pushing you did you feel like you were getting pushed outside like you gotta do something different you got to play different music you gotta you gotta you gotta change your image what was pushing you away from what felt authentic to you yeah I think uh was it you got to make more album I don't I don't know it's it was a it was man it's hard to explain because but at that time and probably still rap music specifically very nuanced and opinionated game it's not like basketball where it's like yo like if you won you won we know who won the championship this year yeah you know there's no opinion about yeah who won the championship last year like nah like y'all got that um basketball is not like that I mean music is not like that music is almost like uh at least at that time music is music but the sport of rap yeah the sport of rap is more like if to win the championship you had to get the all this panel of journalists and fans to vote a mixture of MVP voting and All-Star voting combined determines who is gonna who's gonna uh have the crown and that was always important to me as a as as a kid rapping it wasn't just oh I want to make it as a rapper no my I'm coming oh I want to be hands down known as nobody nobody's coming close you know me and that and and I think it's the same honestly with with a lot of basketball players who strive for that top tier the absence when you're not getting that uh Universal Praise of of you know I'm hands down the best I think it could it could cause some tension and and you had to let go of that huh oh yeah yeah so if you're so did you think you deserved it do I from now when you were in that moment you're like why aren't they of course okay similar to the kids what do you think so you're sitting there going why is it not coming and then you realized I can't wait I can't do it for that yeah yeah and actually because because you realize that's not what it's about and it actually never was like yes I was competitive and yes I always wanted to be in the cipher or amongst any rappers that I knew or any rappers that you heard yes I wanted to be the best the same way when I step on the basketball court even back then the best guy on the other team I want to guard them I want him to guard me I want to quietly yeah I want to quietly destroy him that was my mission it was similar in uh in in rap so so although that was a part of it I still the dominant thing of why I did music was because it was a love and a passion and it was the it was the first thing in my life that I could sit down for for hours and hours and hours and and just stay on this Journey until I'm done writing this song or until I'm and I can sit and record for I was just done from love so I think at a certain point the desire for that started to overcome and process start again yeah yeah so I had that and what does that person the thing you wanted that number one where does that rapper get what do you get like yeah but first of all it doesn't it doesn't exist exist it never existed oh you know what it was back then it was uh it was it was the critical it was the CR you needed like yeah oh man I had I had what I had was uh almost to the point where I wasn't even appreciating it because I was so worried about the thing that I didn't have but what I had was like this this love from people and everyday people that that living a life to this music you know I mean it like really like ah bro this got me through such and such move they really resonated with what I'm saying but there was not a critical from a critical standpoint uh the journalists a certain type of journalists too honestly I realized it was like it's it's a certain segment of that it was just like oh man you're not even and that's what you were oh I mean it was just crazy it's just one of the things that wasn't there sure so I didn't I never grew up like I want you guys yeah to to love me but in the in the in the midst of the game when it wasn't there it was like wait why is that noise over there and then you start focusing on like like you start looking more at at least I did start looking more at like the the lack more than the service yes yes and that and that was a big part of what I didn't have was like that side of things as well as there was other it wasn't like unanimous amongst the people but that was the stuff that really like got to me like I remember really being like you know why why am I not on that I think that list right there like it's like they they only put one of those songs over there but this song is better than that song and it's only number it's only number 31 and they trying to say that these songs are better than that there was like and imagine this was the stuff I was saying out loud yeah yeah these were internal conversations that were like damaging damaging me you know what I mean it took me a while to like catch myself did the um what did the Grammy do for you and what did it not do oh because because I only understand from winning a championship that's me oh yeah somebody said what does winning Championship mean I'll say I'll tell you what it means and I'll tell you what it doesn't mean so so for a Grammy for you no not even no nowhere what do you mean nowhere what is it what do you mean nah like I used to had a Grammy uh like you know how you put a screensaver on your computer oh it was so important to me like like so so had I won it early on I think it would have validated uh all of those feelings I had for it of like oh man and maybe it would have felt like a championship at that point I'm not sure the the fact that it didn't happen and then it didn't happen and then it didn't happen it allowed me to it allowed me to even reflect now and be like wait a minute like first there was the same feeling of like wait why why why are they they're not rocking with me boom boom and then after time and like uh you know more time is sitting with myself it becomes clear that it's like oh wait a minute like you know those things weren't weren't for you you know and and and then when it actually came it was like it was almost like I'm not in love with this thing anymore you know what I mean like so it couldn't feel like a chair and not to mention bro I want a Grammy with somebody else yeah it ain't even like it was only it was me as a feature or somebody's song yeah for nothing I did you know what I mean my grandpa but but to your I think just to answer your question a little better like that's nowhere close to a championship to me the Grammy but there was an album that felt like a championship you know I mean there was the releasing of an album yeah the making of yeah this album I got called Forest Hill Drive yeah and the releasing of it yeah that was a championship run in a way that like you know I would look at how the bulls look at you know the last dance or how you guys look at one of you guys Championship like that was the feeling so and then guess what that album didn't win a Grammy and it's like it meant nothing like it didn't it didn't uh a Grammy didn't increase my enjoyment or decrease my enjoyment if that if that album would have won a Grammy it would have it would have uh it wouldn't have added yeah you know what I mean it wouldn't have changed my experience you know I mean yeah and the fact that it didn't win didn't change my experience it was like that that was what a championship felt like to me yeah it's interesting because when we in 2015 we won and it was overwhelming and then in 2016 we had the best record ever beat the Bulls 73-9 and we lost that was the year we were down three one we lost it and um most people would say pretty pretty cavalierly that record doesn't matter you guys you guys didn't win the championship and I heard that a lot you guys blew it um and then I realized for me I said I get to decide what that 73-9 means for me you know I get to do that you don't get to do that yeah just like you don't get to decide I don't decide what a Grammy means for you yeah I don't decide you don't decide what a championship means for me or or that record or whatever it is but but you're much more um I can't imagine being you in a world as known as you are where people are telling you how to feel how do you choose like who gets in your life because I can imagine being I would be kind of closed I would be almost unhealthy I don't want to hear what anybody else is saying but but you're six years old going like I got this it almost strikes me as you're the type of guy that um who do you ask for help who who helps you I got close people that are like hey yes I got close friends and family in my quarter that I could talk to um if I ever need to you know they're there but I'm gonna tell you the truth I'm a I'm a very um I feel blessed and and lucky to be like this but I'm a self-soother in a and not in a way that's like uh in a way that's dangerous or in a way that's like no like I've from a very young age I've become very good at problem solving self-correcting self-reflecting self-adjusting uh letting things go you know recognizing if I'm not letting something go doing the proper work to Let It Go um so I'm not often overwhelmed like the day those years that I told you about yeah that was overwhelming yeah and I handled that dolo there's things that I talk about that I talk about that part of my life now with with people that are close to me that were around back then and it's like oh yeah I didn't even know that was happening you you know like that's their reaction to me um so yes I have people if I if I need people I have people that I can go to but I honestly prefer even to Justice to just to to do that how personal people say one of the healthiest things any of us can do is Journal in your music do you feel like you're journaling like how how uh how personal what song that you wrote or lyrics was the most raw was the most like this is me oh man it's too much it's too many there's a lot of them because I think that's kind of healthy yeah that was it that was that was like that was my way of venting saying that was my way of communication even was and that back then it was much easier because nobody was listening you know what I mean now it's like um like uh yeah actually if I write it even it's like I don't know if I even watch out here well people here I got you but it's still the same uh therapeutic process of like getting it off and um so so yeah that that helps but more so than that honestly man it's like honest conversations with myself you know I mean like that is more healthy even for me than journaling like checking in with myself how you feeling what's going on you feeling a little different okay what is that oh what can you do about that well oh maybe we should you know do a little meditation maybe or maybe we should just look at it a different way maybe you should just let that go like and even how I'm saying it I don't even think there's words you know it's just a feeling it's interesting because we talked I saw you in New York and I asked you about what you were doing and you were telling me you hadn't there was a certain place where you could write remember talking about where where you could write music yeah and you hadn't been in that environment yes in a while and then you were like I forgot this is a place I write yeah and and it was interesting to me you to do what you do you have to be really in touch with yourself right because you can't fake it's I don't I'm not handing you lyrics yeah and you're just singing them yeah it's there's a difference between writing a book and reading a book yeah you're doing both and you're sending it out to the world so so I guess what's interesting I hear what you're saying and I'm like wow how does somebody take all that in by themselves but then you have to be in touch with you to write there you go right yes I spent a lot of time by myself like I spend a lot of time with myself not by myself because I'm I'm constantly surrounded by family but when it's work time because nobody can help you do there you go I'm the only one I'm the only one that can at least get it out the way that's pure I could always yeah maybe there's a time in my life in the future where it's like I'm more collaborative I'm not even working on my things boom I actually love when like producing for other people like and and being able to having it not be about me but as long as it's my thing yeah I got to spend a lot of time with myself and in my thoughts and uh that's always been me there was only that few year period I had in my life where that was like unhealthy because my thoughts were spiraling and I didn't quite yet at that age have a the awareness to know where where how low they had gotten and then B I didn't have the tools yet to self-correct now am I am my older age and maturity and maturity is like oh wait I'm way more aware when something's going on if something's going on and then have way more tools on deck for myself to like self-correct Caesar Sportsbook it's not just an app it's a whole empire iconic casinos hotels world-class restaurants it's all yours with Caesar's rewards because every bet you place win or lose earns reward credits which you can redeem for hotel stays at over 50 destinations meals tickets merch bonuses and more get started today create an account with promo code Omaha full as far as being a leader in your do you think yourself or in your industry do you do you even talk about it like that way no you don't I don't look at myself like that because it's like I I you don't I just don't even think that yeah it never even enters my mind but but when you say that I'm sure this I'm sure there's someone out there who's like you know who who's in the same way that I did looked at people that I don't actually know yeah you know what I mean yeah as a as a as a North star and guide in light to get to where I want to be you know I mean and yes I had those along the way I had I had when I was a kid I was too pocked out nized out and Jay-Z Kanye Lil Wayne Andre 3000 so you know I have these these life-changing people who in some way shape or form I was looking at as for guidance whether it be creatively musically or like just how I thought they would live in their life but the truth is even the kid that out there that like you know maybe views me as a leader yeah he doesn't really know how I'm living day to day yeah you know what I mean so he just has to fill in the blanks what would you say let's say this doesn't happen sometimes I have to I teach or they ask me to come speak to students it's different in your industry I'm sure you've spoke to people what if it was sitting out there with kids from 12 to 18 or 10 and they're all from all over the U.S or anywhere and they're like hey tell me what to do tell me how to get to where you are I think there's two key ingredients maybe three but one is see yourself as high as you possibly could see yourself right so if someone wants to like be in the NBA like they want to be an NBA player to me that's not enough yeah there's a wide range of NBA players yeah right there's an NBA player that never saw the floor you know he's he sat at the end of the bench his whole career and they never re-upped his contract and then he had to go fight in the G League he was in the NBA yeah LeBron James is in him yeah who do you see yourself as and there's no right or wrong answer clarify and Define your your vision for yourself in the highest possible way that you could see it do you want to be a 12-time All-Star if you want to be a league MVP do you want to be you know uh uh you want to set the three-point shooting record be a specific and see yourself as high as you possibly can right that's your first job is to see it as high as you can see it be delusional here to the point where to where your mind the rate at the Apex of what your mind believes is possible maybe push past that even a little bit and Define it and then number two is like believe it you know I mean like like see it all the time and believe it and and whatever you got to do to protect that belief my version of protecting that belief was I wasn't sharing this yeah I'm not even gonna get my own mother the chance to try to bring me back down to reality it's not gonna happen right you know what I mean like not gonna happen so number one dream as high as you possibly can see yourself not even dream see yourself as high as you possibly can Define that don't just say I want to do such and such because if you if you mess around and get such and such you're going to be mad that you didn't yeah think about higher there's a lot of people that do that they're like man why didn't I why didn't I think about being this instead of just this because at the time you thought just this was it but do the do the thought work and see where you really want to be two believe that it's possible and protect that belief and then three is work towards it don't you have to do the work and because you love it that's not always going to feel like work but sometimes it is I'm sure there's times where stuff is is uh in the gym or like waking up and it's like I I don't really actually want to go strength training or I really don't really want to go put these shots up I'd rather chill with the family but uh I'm gonna go do it because I know my ultimate goal is Championship My ultimate goal is XYZ so he goes and doesn't and then within the work he probably finds joy when he yeah I'm assuming never had this conversation with him but I'm assuming while he's putting up his shots while he's working on his moves while he's doing strength he finds the enjoyment in the presence in it um but it still work yeah you know what I mean like it still works so uh those are like the three things that I would tell anybody yeah whether they're 10 years old or 30 years old you have to see yourself in the highest and and the world we're feeling the rest you know the last thing you said is about loving the process right because if you don't love the pro like you're right if you if you every time you had to perform or write your lit you're like yeah you wouldn't be great yes but but if you if you get excited doing it and you look up and you go man I've been doing this three hours it feels like 10 minutes yes that's that's that that's the greatest of the game because there's Talent right you're in your music you won't say who it is but you go that dude's Talent you don't work or she's great she's right right right right right or that person is not that talented but they work yeah now you get both you get where you want it that's what you're talking about you get talent and heart and love in the process and doing it for the reasons that you started doing it for which were because you love it um and you can you can push back on the fame and the money and the noise and go no I'm going to keep doing this for the reason I started doing it and you like it but that's hard especially with like in our business you know guys get guaranteed money yes you can score two points tonight you can score 50. you're getting paid the same amount yes so so yeah different it's hard it's hard to not get complacent yeah actually no yeah I guess you could say it's hard but uh you have to work you have to do the work to find new ways to fall in love with it and yes there's many ways to fall out of love with it right time money success uh bitterness things didn't go the way you wanted to go there's many ways to like reasons to retract yeah but but if it's some if it's a high goal you set the highest goal I think that's the problem like you know people I think they're afraid I think a lot of people are afraid you you don't seem like you were to set that goal oh yeah yeah you understand there you go I know what you're saying yes yes I was afraid if somebody if you had told me I won't be GM and I was I met you and we were talking and you said hey why don't you try to win four championships I I would have told you like come on don't don't put that on don't say that I just want to try and do what the right you know I wouldn't I wasn't I'm not you that's pretty unique to think it and then even when you're saying it you can feel that that's true to you I don't I I'm envious of that I'm kind of like I wish I thought that way man you know what I'm envious of too uh to that point is because I also think that like the way that I said is valid for someone that wants to live that life but I also think another valid way to live is yo I'm envious of people who don't have a strong desire or strong vision and don't have something they live a peaceful life and an enjoyable life and event and it's like yo I go to work yeah I like my job yeah I like my salary I'm not I'm not trying stupid rich but I love my family I come home life is amazing and they live their life like that and I think that that is just as valid I think they're equally valid and I don't think you know I I don't I don't think anyone should feel because I I've come across people who maybe because we live in a very like we live in a society and a culture that pushes it's like a hustle culture and work hard boom boom and I think people cost I think people could feel almost uh guilty or like insufficient for not having some great dream to dream and I'm like no it's okay it's a blessing to be satisfied yeah to be at peace to be yes to be content with life you know I mean like I have this job I have this family I have this is music but I don't need to be yeah I don't need to be that guy I'm cool with this you know I mean I think that I'm envious it's interesting you would say that because you live and you've met the people you've met you've met people that are supposed to be the best people right and then you realize this person is not great they're just rich or they're just famous and then you you see that family you're talking about that hypothetical guy or husband or wife has a job and they come home and they're happy and you look at it like that's not better than that right yeah yeah but our society doesn't work that way you understand like we're fighting because because when you're on Instagram or Twitter that person's life is perfect right and you go no no I know that person yeah that life is not yeah you don't want to be around that person yeah you know but but that's when you enter I think I would love everybody to meet all these people you go okay you met him know what well I don't really want to hang out with them they weren't very nice yeah and then you go there's a nice family over here what's wrong with that for sure not famous you know so last question um what do you hope I ask a lot of people this one like with your children like if you could wish a life for them because I tell people I'll help you as you think every a lot of people you see these parents at a at a sporting event with their children and they're going crazy you're going to see I I I've seen I I kind of look at the parents like what are you what are you doing and then they their kids the best kid or their kids not playing enough or they're something's not fair and I look at them I go what do you hope happens like what are you hoping for here well I hope my kid gets a scholarship okay uh yeah yes okay so but but you've been traveling around the world you're gone every weekend you know your other kids are here this kid's better than them so you're with him all the time or her so they get a scholarship then what well they're not pay for car okay so what happens to the kid that I hope then what do you what what do you hope happens after the scholarship well that they're the best player on the team okay so what does that mean you're gonna so then we'll go to the games I'm like okay you're gonna move to the Kyle you're gonna go to other games then what I want to go pro okay what do you think that is we're gonna be rich okay so there's a lot of different levels of being a professional athlete whatever you want them to play I want to be the MVP okay do you know what comes with that do you know how hard like do you know what that is do you know what kind of life that is so so you taught these people I'm like I've seen this path and I go what about like I just want my kid to be decent kid or a husband you know sure but but you're they may not be you you know I don't know what you even walk for I don't even know no I don't even I don't know honestly I don't even think about those things like of course there's curiosity yeah there's curiosity what will become what will the interest be um but there's no wish or hope in terms of what it is it's more about reality about what I think my my wish and my hope is more like like I just want you to cut down the time that it took me to the thing that I learned at 30 yeah I hope you can learn that 15 or 16. I just want you to be able to cut down on I want you to be able to learn the lessons that could lead you to peace quicker sure because I I know I know what life is like trying I know what life is like uh and and when I say trying in this context in a bad way I know what life is like to not be living in your your peace and your comfort and your confidence and I know what life is like to be living in your confidence and you know what I mean so it's like the time that it took me to get there on a more permanent basis I flirted with it in my in my childhood and in my teens into my 20s but was never solidified in it you know I mean it was always attaching it to something but uh I think that I I you know I just hope that's what I hope for them is like yo whatever comes after that is is it doesn't matter you know me as long as you feel at peace and and uh comfortable and and you know and that's that's really it like that would be the biggest blessing everything after that is a bonus once you once you just enjoy life on a Content level which is a bonus it's the difference between a person that needs this and I was probably that I wanted this I had this desire and this goal there's a way to with that right there's a weight there you go yeah and then the absence of that is is hurting and I feel like true peace is I can have this desire but the absence of that desire is not you know it's not okay it's okay we passed a little cupcake spot that I go to on the way here like I love this spot yeah and it's like yo I have a desire for this cupcake if I don't get it today it's cool no problem you know what I mean like maybe I'll get it another time but the absence of that isn't isn't uh isn't pulling at me um but I think a lot of us we have this High thing that we think we think the peace will come well that's because that's for me like and I'll finish you know that's why it's about the Grammy some people think the Ferrari the Mansion the Grammy the NBA champion they think that does it there's this like mythical once I get a million dollars once I get a platinum record yeah and I tell people like I hope you get it so you can see because if you never get it you always think it's the answer yes man and then you miss all the other answers but I go I hope whatever if you I got to do that if you were 20 years old I'm like what do you want I gotta get a gram back I hope you get that and you'll be like why go because you're going to realize that's just that's one small part of this whole and I I would say the sooner you figure it out like you said about your kids yeah the sooner you get that gram you're going to realize yeah you get it when you're 70 you're gonna have wasted a lot of time yes thinking that was the thing yes man but that's a bar yeah for sure appreciate it yeah thank you man thanks for coming [Music] [Music] thank you

Channel: ESPN

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Keywords: espn, sports, j cole, j cole interview, j cole lead by example, lead by example podcast, bob myers, bob myers podcast, lead by example espn, espn lead by example, how to lead by example, bob myers warriors, golden state warriors, ESPN NBA, ESPN, #NBA, j cole freestyle, j cole full interview, j cole podcast, podcast, j. cole, dreamville, cole world, hip hop, music, bob myers j. cole, cole, j cole official, kod, j.cole, the off season, forest hills drive, j. cole bts, j. cole grammy

Id: 9boVw2lnP5Q

Length: 55min 30sec (3330 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 21 2023