Grant Hill Sits Down with Q + D | Knuckleheads Podcast | The Players’ Tribune

yo yo yo we live on location live from Orlando Florida me and the blackest one man we got a neighbor he lives here right locally so we had to do much to make this happen we got the Duke Legend the Hall of Fame with the NBA top 75 oh and he a former player who owning a franchise that's hey hey hey hey we ain't had one of them up in here yet so you know give it up for the big time Grant Hill G Hill man we appreciate you putting up on us man first of all man we appreciate you you know coming on the show I appreciate being here and I'll tell you when I first played against you you didn't hold back you went right at me your Idols become your Rivals man when you first got to the league who was the first person to bust your ass so look I'm a fan of y'all show so congrats on what you guys have been doing I think it's awesome I know that's the question you always leave with and I've been one of those guys that people have mentioned I couldn't really remember like I honestly like like I literally because I came in the league and like my first you know I don't know five six ten games whatever I was 20 like I was doing work so I had to actually go back I had to come back go back and look and you'd appreciate this my second game do from Chicago Kenny Norman and now I had like 24 against them and I think we won the game but he had 30 on me and uh and he didn't like I don't think I respected his shooting he might have hit a gang of Threes on me but that was when I think I realized because Kenny Norman wasn't like a star in the league his name yeah but like it just showed you that anybody on any given night was capable of giving it to you so I gotta give a shout out to snake Kenny Kenny Norman I want to ask you um have you ever heard of the Grant Hill drill you know what's crazy yes I heard I heard it but I was playing okay and so I'm in Phoenix at the end of my career and um Igor um yeah so he's our assistant when we was in L.A first yeah so he's with us he's an assistant that with Alvin in Phoenix and Goran dragic he's putting him through drills and he says okay now do the Grand Hill move and I'm like the gray Hill move and so it's like I guess it was like through the legs and then kind of like you either cross over or go yeah and uh anyway that's the version I know but I don't know if that's what you have like when I was in high school well my sophomore year I went to NBA uh Kim okay and uh one of the coaches was demonstrating that he was telling us like this is the Grant Hill drill and the Grand Hill drill was you got to take one or two dribbles from half court and dunk the ball so a lot of kids up there couldn't dunk the ball in one or two dribbles but he used me as an example and I can do it so I added it to my like Regiment of when I fast break and all that always count my dribbles and not take unnecessary dribbles because the reason of the drill was not to take unnecessary dribbles then I used to watch you like when you used to play in transition you never took unnecessary dribbles when you was going it never was a Oh I dribbled two more times to get there it was always a three dribbles two dribbles and he was at The Rim dunking so I always used that and I wonder did you ever hear that drill and coaches now say that's the Grand Hill drill of not taking that many dribbles past that of course no I see I I had have you ever noticed you did that no no I know I did I mean I I think so look when I came in the league and early on you know going going against snake going against you know Cedric cibolos my first guys at my position you didn't have a lot of guys that were accustomed to guarding somebody at the three who could handle the ball and certainly now you look around everybody you know stuff I've done stuff you've done all players who've come to tall versatile can do a number of things so that kind of like I think the fact that I could handle the basketball and I was athletic and you know all the other things so for me getting a defensive rebound and bringing it up pushing and pushing it and I always felt like if I bust out and I beat the fours and the fives now I'm playing three on three and now I got space and so it's always that deep I go back to when I was like eight nine years old and you know back then you're big and they put you inside and nobody gets the ball you know what I'm saying and so I remember one time my dad was like man get the rebound bring it up yeah and I was like I can't do that I'm a sinner and he's like no you can do it and so I you know I joked that I did it all the way to the hall of fame but to me that was a way if I get a defensive rebound it's a scoring opportunity yeah in transition tall too you know don't look at 2 30. I'm coming downhill at you that was my game and I don't think a lot of people really fully understood and people see at the end where it's a different role but early on that's that's what I did well was handle the basketball and get to spots on the floor I wanted to get to your father was a former NFL player how how did basketball come into play when you when when starting off the history is you know it's football good question so you know for me I grew up it was all football um you know I was told that that was one of the first words it's kind of a difficult word for a baby but um you know as a kid pictures of the house everything's you know helmet shoulder pads I remember going to [ __ ] Park going to you know Cleveland where you played at the end of his career yeah um and for my dad you know he didn't play football until he was in high school so his first love was baseball okay and um so he always felt like you had to be older a little bit more physically mature yeah to play and he didn't want some little league coach you know thinking they were yeah you know Vince Lombardi you know he played in the era or whatever it was going down oh yeah because of that he didn't want you know he wanted me to be a little bit more developed and so by the time I got to high school you know I was in love with basketball I mean that was my sport that was you know I couldn't get enough of it and it kind of like maybe like nine ten years old that's when it started to flip for me yeah what did you see you know was it somebody local or you seen somebody on TV that's a good question good question so first of all as you guys know it wasn't like it is now where you just get everything you want you know every college game every NBA game it's on your phone on your on your mobile device Smart TV whatever like back then um there was like one game that came on NBA game that came on on the weekend and then you know I was in DC so the bullets you know that that was a but they weren't really great in the 80s but for me it was it was a couple things it was Georgetown you know watching Georgetown uh Pat Ewing you know that team and then one of the guys that played at Georgetown went to my high school Michael Jackson Michael was the point guard on that team so I remember watching Michael in high school and I'm a you know I'm a little kid I'm you know nine ten years old and um and it was around that time where watching him watching those high school teams uh and then Georgetown called out we we um we bought a betamax in 1982 and the first thing we recorded was the final four uh North Carolina Georgetown yeah when Carolina and uh enjoyed that game-winning shot um and it was like almost like that moment it was like man that's what I want to do and uh and then my parents got season tickets for Georgetown games and so we became big Georgetown fans time out timeout timeout timeout timeout how the hell did you go to Duke and I'm hearing all this g-town love they got big John how did how did how did you go to do what in the world like what I know every Georgetown fan sitting there listening like where did we go wrong you know you know what's funny is that even my senior year when I or yeah beginning my senior year the whole senior I committed to Duke early Senior High School we still went to Georgetown games and so I think I think a couple things one um and my mom just passed and so God bless you know her and R.I.P and all that but I needed some distance like I you know yeah I'm an only child of two only children and I felt like man my mom and my dad would be you know in my dorm every day and so I needed you know distance and so um obviously Duke Coach K was Chicago guy he was uh up and coming and you know I was because I watched that first game of Georgetown Carolina I became a Carolina Georgetown fan so those were the two teams I followed but kind of Coach K kind of came in there and you know and just I believed him like one of the things that makes him great and we can get into it later but his ability to connect with people and his ability to get you to buy in and uh so much of coaching is buying it and so but I I couldn't you know I felt like man my parents my boy everybody just you know it'd be I needed some space and I needed a chance to grow up a little bit too yeah when you're in high school when was the year that you felt that you was turning a corner of no I'm not just the best player at my school I'm one of the best players in the state and I won the best players in the country so it kind of happened before high school so I um so I I'm young for my grade so I graduated high school in 90 but I could have been 91 and so 13 and under uh AAU Championship we were in St Louis and uh Lou that's right we would say yeah we were at uh Washington University yeah we were there and um um Chris Weber Jalen Rose you know they were there with um what they call the Super Friends Henderson yeah Municipal Gardens like they had a lot of so they all were Rising eighth graders I was a rising ninth grader so we end up winning the whole thing and I remember afterwards the guy on my team Jamie Warren got the MVP and uh his dad was a coach and he hit the game-winning layup so he you know but I was I was kind of like hurt like I was like I should have been MVP yeah so that was and I I remember my dad was trying to like you know you know just you know we won but he also said that I'm a little you know feeling a certain way and and so I said I'm gonna come back next year I'm gonna be the MVP and uh and so I think having that confidence going against the best of my age and now I went to high school playing varsity now the difference was all those guys were playing eighth grade ball you know that following year I'm playing High School playing varsity so I came back the next year 14 and under yeah and I I like we were in Seattle I dominated and got the MVP and we lost we lost in the finals and so but that was like that period where I knew okay like with my peers like this is this is real this is you start getting recruited yeah all of that but but going into High School having that momentum it's different now because you got AAU kids play a lot younger but back then it was one tournament you you know you you have people from different regions you met at the the Nationals and we won how did that feel for you to be like you say your pop's an NFL player like for you to be kind of like forged in your own way and like starting to be noticed like you know you started say you're getting recruited and things like that how did that feel for you or somebody who growing up with a with a with a professional athlete dad you know I think there's pressure I think you know you your children might might have felt it you know it might have been more pressure for me if I played the same sport right but um you know you know my dad obviously his career my mom was you know an accomplished businesswoman and so you know you go through those weird Middle School years we trying to figure things out and um and you know look I didn't have great confidence I stuttered like I just I you know and I think for me I'm trying to find my way a little bit at that time and so basketball was my thing and it wasn't so confident yeah and here's the thing like here's the thing I realized as a parent now too no matter how much money no matter how many connections not how many resources we have you can't teach hunger and you can't make it for your children particularly in sports it's the ultimate meritocracy yeah you know we go man on my like either you're going to win or I'm gonna win you know what I'm saying and other other Industries other walks of life sometimes connections can open doors but in sports it's the ultimate like if if you're better you're better you better like that's it if the team's better then that's it you shake your hand and you move on and so so for me to like prove myself that I'm doing this independent of them I think that was important at that period of time in my life how was it you know we uh we come up the era we some old man y'all babies man I remember y'all came in the league man yeah well how was that to see your name in like the streets and Smith and and like see your name and all them high rankings and seeing them other names that you see up there and you know you coming from Western Virginia like right to see your name up there with the rest of them like how is that for you so you said Street Smith so you all old kids today they don't know what that is man so like I was start like as a fan you're starving for anything basketball anything in the magazine anything black or white USA Today you got a USA remember the All-American team and they had the photo spread in there um and then they'd have those pre-season Publications yeah and you'd read about the I'd read the stories like okay this guy I remember reading about Damon Bailey who was in my class and it was like he was like an urban legend Urban League I remember like reading about Kenny before I played against him and so um and then for me there was Michael Jackson who was older but then Dennis Scott so Dennis was in my hometown and so Dennis was from wrestling well he grew up in Maryland but moved over to wrestling and so Dennis was high school player of the year with Marcus Liberty they were the top two guys and so Marcus Liberty and Marcus Liberty was he was cold yeah and um but like so watching Dennis go through it yeah and then just like being such a fan and then all of a sudden like man I'm here you know I'm in it um parade All-American and you know five-star Nike camp like going that whole that whole path it was um I wasn't even thinking about the NBA man like I mean it just seems so far-fetched at that time it was like man I just want to make the McDonald's yeah I'm getting the McDonald's games how was it for you when you found out like cause I know like like our generation that was like now it's so many different things it could still be you know been raised their level but back then the McDonald's was the top Tiesto McDonald's you using stamped you this stamp of approval so how did that feel when you got that because I know like me you watched the years before when they announced the teams on TV and you get to see it like how was that for you when you was in your mom and getting your shot it was great I um the crazy thing is I played in the west because there were so many players oh yeah and so they had and I was point guard like I played point in my senior year in high school and uh actually you were six seven I was six seven six eight and um I'm selling the point so I could hit like a hint I could handle the ball Dean Smith actually recruited me as a point guard and he thought I could be a point guard um but no it was crazy it was in Indianapolis at the Old Market Square Arena obviously as you come up you know these guys you played against these guys you know I mean some some guys I didn't know but it was just it was it was like at that point in my life it was the most incredible week of my life outside of Georgetown was in anybody else that almost got you so my five schools do Georgetown Carolina Virginia and Michigan those were I was a big Sean Higgins fan okay and uh another tall guy that could play on the perimeter um matter of fact when they won in 89 I went up there for an unofficial visit the next next weekend and uh I met I met uh Ramil Robinson I met um Mark Hughes uh there's a guy Demetrius Caleb who um was on that team so I was a big big Michigan fan and um I probably wouldn't have played because the fan five would have come in the next year eventually but man but uh but now I was a Michigan fan but but it was Duke Caroline it came down to Duke Carolina and you know and I think part of it too back then it was like that was what you saw yeah you know in Virginia DC area you saw biggies and you saw ACC yeah we didn't see a whole lot of Big Ten basketball yeah in that area it was all on ESPN they were showing all that Big East Providence everybody did you do like a press conference or did you just announced nah I just announced it yeah we didn't it was no press conference so you just broke people's the whole UNC heart over there that whole split so let me tell you what happened so so I was I went to Duke my first visit was due and um and at that point I'm still thinking Carolina because you got to understand like growing up everything was North Carolina every yeah Carolina you know colored shoes so I go to Duke we even go over to Chapel Hill on one one of the nights to a party on my visit to do and uh because the schools are just seven years apart so they're so close and um and I even there was a a young lady who went to high school with me who was a little bit older she's passed away but she I reached out to her when I was down there she's like you're not going to Duke College I was like no I'm just here on a visit and uh she said all right you got to come to Carolina so like that's where my head was at but there was something about the visit there was something about Coach K there was something about the team like I just bought in and so when I came back I was like I told my parents I was like I'm ready to go to do and they're like like visit the other schools Dean Smith's coming in on Tuesday you know so Dean Smith came to the house with Phil Ford and it was a great visit sitting in the kitchen he and my dad going back and forth talking my dad's like you know idolizing Dean Smith yeah and uh the next day I was like this is where I want to go now my dad so the following weekend we're supposed to go to Michigan and Bo schembeckler who was in the the A.D former coach he was going to sit with my dad watching the football game Michigan Notre Dame and it was the great game where rocket is smile had like two or three touchdowns and uh and so he he didn't speak to me for like a week because he was like man man you got it man come on man go to these visits like he is but I just knew like this is where I wanted to be and so anyway but that was it was due Carolina but Coach K you know he he got me he got you he got me you you got there in uh Coach K come from a military background he he he loved hard he worked hard you the start of this Duke era and uh you have the squad and you know nobody picked y'all to win nobody picked y'all to really go deep because you had all these teams like UNLV how was that to start the era of Duke with that team that first year so the year before I arrived my high school senior year Duke loses to UNLV in the finals 1990 championship game embarrassing yeah and they returned everybody from that that team Stacy Allman Larry Johnson Greg Anthony Anderson hunt the whole team preseason number one first day we meet as a team at Duke Coach K puts on the board 1991 NCAA national champions and I'm sitting there like man is he crazy like I'm looking around I watched the game last year I'm like cause like we look we lose three starters who were seniors Robert bricky Allah abdanabi Phil Henderson you got Leighton is going to be a junior who's he's a good player you know he's gonna take a step forward Hurley had an up and down freshman year and you got a bunch of role players and five freshmen I'm thinking like I I can help this team but I don't know if we can beat that team yeah but his leadership in establishing that goal from day one like every year I was there it was only about winning championships and planting that seed and everything we did that first year was preparing us for that moment and so if we had two games in three days if we played Carolina on a on a Tuesday night and in Carolina State North Carolina State on a Thursday he would he would break it down like this is what we're going to see in a tournament play on Saturday then you got to bounce back emotionally and recover and recharge and play Monday so everything was geared towards towards winning and then just as the season kind of got it went along we had I mean we went through a bunch of stuff that year but we just kind of gradually peaked at the right time you know and um and show and then as fate would have it we end up playing you know playing UNLV again how was it like going into that game like uh y'all y'all didn't got through this season and y'all made it to the province land right before the game y'all finna play them again and you know what's going on but what was Coach K like uh what made him motivate y'all to be so confident out there that y'all can Slater John well first of all we had a whole week to prepare so unlike the year before we had one day we had a whole week um we actually practice five against seven and to get used to the speed and the quickness and the athleticism of UNLV they had the amoeba defense and uh and then I think one of the things that I'm having my own back here but I think I was on the team and so now I'm another ball handler I played power forward I was you know Larry Larry Johnson's guarding me he's not used to guarding somebody six seven six eight yeah who could be a pressure release who can bring the ball up so now you didn't have Greg Anthony and Anderson hunt pound you know hounding Bobby Hurley he had another guy who could bring the ball up so that helped us get into our stuff and uh but he just pumped us up he pumped us up made us believe we we went in thinking we could win we probably the only people who thought we could win two funny stories one so before we leave I gotta get my hair right you know we go to the barber shop of course back then I had the flat top yeah so we go to the barber we go yo this is crazy we go to the barber and you know our Barber used to you know he's a drink he's a drink a lot while he's cutting hair but he didn't think anything of it so he cuts T Lang Tony Lang yeah it's my roommate he cuts his hair and Tony had like a ball fade back then and then I get in the chair and so the mirror is behind me he doesn't have a mirror on this side yeah and so my back is to the mirror while he's cutting me and laying sitting in front of me so Lang's trying to like like kind of give me that look look at like messing you up so so anyway I guess the alcohol I don't know what happened but when it's done I'm like I'm I'm mad now like I'm like dude I'm about to go on national TV with this head and uh I didn't want to pay for it and I I got mad like I got Matt Lang's laughing so anyway we don't speak on the drive he and I got in a fight when we got to the dorms because I was like I blamed him for not letting me know when he's the first time he messed up and then the crazy thing was you know this is you know Coach K he said before the game he said look I don't want y'all doing anything crazy like you know going bald or like you know putting something do something different than you normally would do yeah because I think you know now I would just cut it down and bald it you know but back then this was like this 1991 you know it was a different time so I go out in one of the most historic final fours and have some iconic moments with the worst like I have bowl cut flat top like the ball wasn't even even like it was just so you see it so when I see that I'm like I'm like embarrassed like I can't even watch those games because I just think of that story everybody gonna be looking at it it was terrible man talk about the past the perfect pass you made like oh to later yeah how's you think you can make that throw again that was like on the money yeah one of the things we did every day was we'd do two man drills you guys know you know two men got out you know you throw the ball off the backboard you out let it go do a layup and next time it's a jump shot so you have a partner and it would progress to a baseball pass and we did it every day and so I would you know I would talk trash like you know it's in the jeans yeah so I could throw the ball and like you know person run down the court catch it in stride lay it in yeah and so I think coach knew in that moment that I was you know I was the one that could make that that pass we had a game we lost two games that year in 92. and one of them was the Wake Forest yeah and we had to get a play where similar play but they put 610 trelawny Owens on me and I threw the ball and it curves and it led Lightner down to the to the sideline where he stepped on the outer bounds so I remember after that game I'm like you know if I'm ever in that situation again I'm just gonna step back you know they can be you know defense can be standing whatever but if you step back it just gives you more wrong gives you more room and so when I came out of the Huddle and they didn't have anybody on me I'm like oh I got it you know I'm gonna do my part and uh and thankfully you know Christian was you know Christian gives you know obviously has been a documentary on him and you know we look at his pro career and it didn't quite pan out with the expectations but he was just good of a college basketball player than I've ever seen yeah and I I'm talking starting in 1982. I didn't see before that you know the UCLA yeah you know Lou alcinder and cream and all of that but from the modern era in terms of accomplishments in terms of like just stepping up to the challenge against every big game I mean Shaq's even said it before that Christian like busted like you know Shaq Larry Johnson Lonzo like Christian was competitive Christian brought it and he had some you know he had some good players around him too that didn't help but he he he got it done and uh and we rode him those years like he was and in that game he didn't miss a shot he was perfect from the field from the free-throw line 30 points and of course hit that big shot at the end tell me this everybody you know knows and has talked about it's one of the the biggest rivalries in sports like what was it like your first time as a freshman like where was the game was it at Duke or at UNC when you guys when you first got a chance to be a part of this rivalry like what was that like let me tell you before the games so we get down there my God I know that they were your final two schools so it was probably something extra waiting for you oh no question so it's so I'm trying to think of like like a rivalry like I don't know in Illinois if it would be Illinois and and I know where I was like but just like the proximity so my thing is like having clothes like like in Florida like you got Florida Florida State right so we live here in Florida we we understand what that rivalry is but the schools are six seven miles from each other like it's intense like to the point where you're in the cafeteria and Duke is the largest employer in Durham so you got somebody in the cafeteria somebody at the bookstore or something people who worked there who are Carolina fans who are talking trash to you on your own campus you know what I'm saying so it's I call it Living With the Enemy and it probably goes both and back then we were up and coming like we were more established now we've had success but it was all all Carolina back then but I I realized it so my my guy like one of my closest friends when I was in high school was Brian Reese Brian Reese played at Carolina from from New York played a talent time with Adrian Audrey from the Bronx um you know he had come down in high school to visit I'd gone up to New York like so we we had a good friendship so freshman orientation we go over to a party over at Carolina and it's their freshman orientation and uh so we're both at the party and we didn't speak and literally we'd see each other out and about and for four years didn't speak and so that's what I'm saying that's all of a sudden you kind of helicopter into this this unique sort of like it's it's hard to describe it but and it was to the point too when you went over there you never went over there like alone no I'm just saying because something might have like you know what I'm saying like it was always like always that energy was there yeah I mean you know these are two pwis you know they're not but I'm just saying like you just always felt like something without nobody witch and uh but you know they would come over to guys in their ten they would try to date the girls at Duke and we would try to date some girls over there and so we socialize we'd be at parties but we never like connected it was always we'd be in the same room but we kept our distance how was the atmosphere like walking in the gym and seeing like the you know seeing how hyped y'all fans was when you having the home games and just seeing how crazy they fans was when you have no away games so out of town just changed when it's y'all time to play you know I thought that this is what that's what college basketball was and what I mean by that is the Cameron crazies were crazy they were creative they were loud they you know it was a great environment for us to play in it was a great environment I think for opposing teams you know y'all are competitors so you come in there you're gonna want to put up numbers like you I did exactly I'm sure you did so it it you know and then when we went on the road we you know we felt that you know what I'm saying and and so I just kind of thought like this was normal sort of college basketball energy and really the reality it wasn't and also too I think what was happening Duke was becoming a really good team we had good success you know there was the private school element we had some good white players so like it was an interesting time and then we we beat UNLV which was you know an all-black team we beat Michigan and Fab Five so they were there's sort of these cultural Wars that were going on how did that feel for you to be one of the you know one of the because like you said you were talking about that time period Duke was viewed as the as the private school with the white guys Drew one of the few black dudes and you like you won the better player so how did that feel for you to be like basically you you on the the quote-unquote other side or whatever from from our culture base well and I felt that I mean I experienced that as a fan one with Georgetown The Pride that you know even though Georgetown is like Duke in a lot of ways or like to pause you know I mean it's a probably more like it's like both like old school small private school um a predominantly white institution but to see you know an all-black team with a strong black coach I identified with that and that was what I was drawn to um as a fan of the NBA you know the Lakers like I hated the Celtics I hated the Celtics because Larry Bird and Kevin McHale and they were good right you know what I'm saying and they were they were white you know what I'm saying and so so I understand the sentiment I do think though when I was in it I didn't quite I didn't realize what was happening I didn't realize that this was going on and what I mean by that is you know we would insulate like I didn't read the newspaper like you know I mean I might get the campus newspaper I'm not paying money to like you know buy newspapers not and not that the newspaper would show that but I think they kind of kind of painted this picture of like good first band yeah white versus black yeah and I just think we were kind of oblivious to it to my point everywhere we went we were hated and every time somebody came to see us they were hated and so I think there was a part of it I mean this may sound like I'm pleading ignorance but and then when I would go out like Durham you know there's a real sort of Rich African-American history in Durham Durham was that City where in North Carolina if you wanted a job opportunity you came to Durham um you know in DC you know Coach K built you know I like to say he the foundation will do basketball was from DC you know Johnny Dawkins Tommy amick or Billy King Brian like myself he's got Danny ferry so at home everybody showed Duke love you know at least they showed me Duke love you know what I'm saying and then in Durham so I didn't see I didn't feel that but I get it I understand it so I was oblivious to all of it um in a lot of ways um you know we were just trying to win we were kids we were having fun and um and but I understand looking back at it now where that came from one other thing before we move on from do I want like because I asked JJ this when we had JJ on there when you were like going into Duke as a as a freshman or when you decided you're gonna get there did you ever foresee and I don't know if you see yourself this way but I think the rest of the world do that you like now looking at like how great how much success Duke has had all the players did you ever think like you would be one of the people like if that was like a a a Mount Rushmore you would be in there like of all of these unbelievably great players accomplishments not obviously Coach K is above everything but like amongst the players like I felt like JJ one of them guys like yeah like how does that feel to be like one of those guys just like really I mean you want to you know the pioneers of it too like the start of it but like to be a Sit atop or something like that you ever thought about that it's a great question you know he went to DePaul for two years okay and you you went right out of high school no College I had my no but I I admire what you did and the reason and I'll explain why when I arrived at Duke I didn't see what everybody else saw I I knew I was a good player but I did lack some confidence and belief and I think basketball helped build that over time so I didn't come in thinking I was going to like do work I I actually I needed to be pushed a little bit I needed to be pushed into greatness if that makes sense and so coach pushed me gave you know and I said this and it may come across the wrong way I said it uh at the hall of fame and Shrine he was one of my presenters but like I um you know and decide it may come across the wrong way but he gave me permission to be like it's okay to be great and I think I wanted to fit in and so sometimes to be great you got to stand out right and I struggled with that a little bit so to answer your question I far exceeded my expectations I never like Jersey retirement like I wasn't even forget about the NBA like I wasn't even think about the NBA that's why I say I I Marvel at you like hey I can do this and I'm gonna do it I needed to grow into that and by the time I left College my senior year where now it's on me I couldn't hide behind Bobby couldn't hide behind Christian now I'm the leader I'm one that's responsible for you know for you know getting all of us you know to the Mountaintop or whatever and we lost that year to Arkansas Scotty Thurman hit a hit a great shot against us but um that year and that experience in the in the collect the cumulative four years prepared me for the expectation and the pressure that comes with being a top pick in the NBA how was it like at the draft like uh your mother your father's successful black people and uh all they want from you is to have a a goal a dream or something that you want to do and your father was a professional athlete and now they get to see their son at the draft becoming a man taking another step up in life and I'm gonna play with the men now right like how is that for them to to see your your father and your mother just excited for you and what you accomplished you know I I never I never really have asked them that I mean I think I get a sense just sort of having gone through it with them um you know I mean it was an incredible ride I think they enjoyed every minute of it you know and and in the high school and even in the college and I think you know it was a little bit of Bittersweet yeah at that moment because I think they realized that yes now I'm going into this I'm a man I'm I'm no longer on the payroll you have to take care of yourself I mean you know but all like all of the good that comes with that but then also it changes when you get to the league yeah parents aren't as involved you know like in college the parents are like you know high school and so you know I and for me as a parent nothing gives me Greater Joy than watching and supporting and following my kids the growth and watching them in their sports like my I got a daughter who plays soccer I'm I'm the videographer I'm the one putting the thing up I'm sending all the parents a video I'm like I said yeah I'm like I'm like all into it then I got another daughter who is an MMA fighter I never thought I'd get in it like now I'm you know I'm watching fights with her I'm taking her to Vegas like and so you know having gone through it not that they've they're still young and you know she'll get mad at me for saying this but like the MMA thing like you're conflicted about yeah because you're like if she loses it could be really scary and thankfully she hasn't lost yet um it hopefully won't lose but if you lose it could be serious yeah so you don't want them to lose yeah but if they win they want to keep doing it yeah yeah and so it's like you know that's not you know as as my wife says you know you make plans and God laughs but um but as a parent yeah so I can only imagine for my parents like they just and you know what to be able to share the journey with them the ups and the Downs because there were some Downs too um but that moment like that was a surreal moment you guys experienced your guests have experienced it and it's almost like you feel like you like man I made it yeah right when you shaking his hand and you're looking off into the crowd and them cameras flashing you like yeah I made it you drafted to the Pistons number three you know your balls draft number three them three boys you know you get drafted to the Pistons and you know like you're you're a fan of History you know the ideas and the Joe Dumars they won in the era where nobody gave them a chance to win in the Larry Bird and Magic Johnson era but like I say your eyes will become your Rivals I mean my cousins tell them that you can't be a fan no more and the way you started that season off you definitely want no fan no more because I see how you you should Scotty up but how was it like your first year being there and and seeing like the guys that you you dreamed about playing against or playing with and now like you say it's all on you now it's you don't have the late nurse or or nobody to kind of give you that push in front even Isaiah and Joe dumar's them was on their back end like you right in and ready to go and they wanted you the organization the town wanted you to go how was that to have that pressure and to be ready to go and you know test your might yeah no that that's that's a great question now I think um so it was a bit of a transitional period for that franchise you know they had the bad boys had great success they won they kind of were declining Lambert retired mid-year the year before Isaiah retired that summer I got you know uh drafted Joe was still on the roster the year before they drafted Lindsey Hunter and Allen Houston so I was next up so it was almost like you could feel like a transition was occurring but the expectations weren't high at all um you know the summer before I arrived at in Detroit I was down at Duke and I was you know just playing pickup all summer and uh Quinn Snyder who you know formerly coached recently at Utah you know he at that point had been an assistant with Larry Brown with the Clippers and so in pickup ball he was like yo man like when you play pickup you're coming at people pop pop you know you threw the legs crossover getting by people but when you play in the game you're backing people you know and so I'm doing like the magic you know Steve Smith handle like this and he said in the NBA you can do that and so I remember him like literally told me that maybe two weeks before I left to go to like camp and so when I got there I was like like it like really sounds crazy but I was like man this is easy like I'm not going against guys that aren't used to defending this kind of play so my first game like I came in and you know like I I don't know 20 I mean I don't remember the game but I've heard about it because I think Paulo did something similar recently but I had like 25 10 and 5 like like just and I was able to just get to where I want it to be dude so I'm calling my boys out like yo man the league man it's overrated like I'm like I'm like I feel it myself and all of that but you know once they get a scouting report on you and they figure you out after 15 games they got a little bit harder but um but yeah like I was ready like I was confident I was assured who I was I was ready for the moment um I embraced the challenge of being like the face or whatever yeah and it was crazy it was a bit of a whirlwind you know Jordan had retired and for whatever reason a lot came my way and so you know I'm signing shoe deals and doing commercials and you know magazines like everything was just happening really really fast how was it to to be the first rookie to lead the All-Star and votes fan voting like you beat Shaq out like and no rookie had ever led the league in votes for all stuff like how like at that point you had to be like damn yeah no it was I mean like I remember I remember the pr guy there um Matt dobeck uh he was like man there's a chance that you you may start an All-Star game on my start like dude I can't believe I've been all like I saw your star You're Gonna Leave the whole joint but I think a couple things one the league the NBA is a Global Marketing and public relations firm like that's what they do no matter who's comes in at like they can promote and and Market their players all over the world we all can go all over the world which we've done and people know who we are because of our association with the league and so when there's I call it fresh meat but when there's young you know young you know young players coming in they're gonna they're gonna promote them yeah I think the benefit I had was in some ways um Planet Duke whether you liked duke or you hated Duke you saw Duke and I remember before I left coach K's wife um Mr shasheski she told me like of the and I'm I'm not saying the right numbers but she said like of the 120 games or 115 games you played in college 112 of them on national TV and so the visibility over four years playing three final four championship game I just felt like that people knew who I was and then I came in out the gate and I was like I was balling and and so a combination of that and maybe the league like it just and so but I I wasn't I was just like man I just want to come in and like show that I was worth the pick yeah but then when it started all happened it was like and then the All-Star like I like I'm I'm watching these guys this a year before and now I'm in the room with with Scotty and you know crazy Peyton Sean Camp all these guys and so um I didn't feel I don't know if I felt like I belonged and I felt like I still had a lot of work to do yeah but you know I mean that that changed over you know in a few years but like at first it was it was like I said it was a whirlwind man like it was so did you ever feel like in that early part of it did you did you had some people looking at you like they trying to give you something that you don't deserve and like oh I'm gonna show y'all that I Gotta Serve y'all up yeah people came people I think people thought Duke you know his kids getting all this attention whatever so they came at you but like like I was going right back to me that's right so and then you know look I I think I I think subconsciously I always live with that I think people look oh you know your dad played in the NFL yeah you know I'm we're gonna go at him you know saying and so like coming up 10 11 12 like playing older people people have these and so you know I'm so I'm like I only know how to play one way so I'm not that's not gonna intimidate me or whatever so but yeah I mean people would try you you know and that that was fun I mean and I don't mean to try you in the sense of trying to fight you but be physical or intimidate and um but that you know that that didn't and like I said it sounds pretty arrogant be saying but like I came in like I was like I was busting that I don't know what I definitely was doing real like I I had a really good start well you know still still wonder why I shared the uh code Rookie of the Year with Jay kidding okay you know we dream about the league and you know one of the things we dream about the league having a nickname or having our own shoe like did you think that like you look back now like this is your Fila shoe is like one of the classics of the culture like to this day is still a classic of the culture I have it's a great story I never liked the Fila shoe but yours was the heart I appreciate that that has credibility I appreciate the green shoes I appreciate that and I appreciate the question and there's a little story there so I was Nike like I was all the way like you know we wore Adidas for three years at Duke and then the last year we wore Nikes and um and I went out to Beaverton and met you know did the whole thing you know before before I um really before the draft and I remember sitting with Phil Knight and he was like you know this this speaks to his vision for the future but he was talking about the far East and talking about going over to China in the Far East and those countries and um expanding and growing the game and we're growing Nike in those markets so he had he was like he was saying you and how you you know comport yourself like you would really resonate he wanted to have me at the Great Wall of China via satellite for the NBA draft and so all my people were like that's a great idea and I'm thinking I want I want that moment with Commissioners you know but but like it was all Nike the negotiations got kind of screwed up they kind of lowballed me and it was posturing whatever and then fila's headquarters were in Baltimore my dad's from Baltimore so he said let's just go over there and look not thinking anything of it so we go over there and you know I'm like okay they got some nice stuff you know and I'm thinking like growing up like you know the either in the country clubs like the tennis players or like the Dough Boys and the rap you know but that was and feel it was kind of like I don't know it's kind of like aspirational in the 80s you know what I'm saying like you know it was it was looked at it but it wasn't looked at as a Performance Brand from basketball so I'll be real with you like they had they had they had a couple sheets of paper at the the conference room and I turned to that second page in the money [Laughter] yeah I'm getting low balled over here oh they they get they got money no that was it I mean I hate to say it that was the initial like okay like that opened my eyes and then you know we just we ended up going forward with the reception you got because I a lot of people had your shoe a lot of people wore your shoe to to have people like you know yeah you got the deal but people still got to buy your shoes to see people wearing it the way they was wearing it because everybody in my school and stuff were in the feet either gray Hills or different stuff how was that for you it was crazy so one thing I don't know if this if this still stands but I I want to say like up until like 2000 it was the highest grossing debut shoe like a signature shoe and that included like joy and that included Shaq including AI all those guys so I I was like I said I was overwhelmed like I didn't I didn't see that coming yeah you know they had Jamal Mashburn from the year before he wore Fearless yeah you know but now all of a sudden it just it took off yeah one of the big things and I think it was a period of time too where you you have the convergence of sport and and music and culture but like one of the um like Method Man wore them in a video with uh Mary J yeah you know like that was like that was crazy to me like oh smack he wearing my shoot like you know and then you go places you go to games and kids would want you to sign the shoes or you might you know see people wearing your shoes at the mall or whatever so it was just like like man I got my own shoe like and then you know feeling stuff like they said I mean you guys probably still got the you know but like you know with with jump man but they uh they send you all types of apparel and shoes my boys are good like everybody's good everybody's wearing Fila and so it was just you know it was man life was good I can't complain like I was how is it to like like he said you did all that back then and you know it did what it did like you said it did the records to the debut shoot how was was it mind-blowing when they came back to you like we want to Retro and bring it out now in 2020 when they first brought it back in 20. like to see it make a comeback and you like y'all really want to do this again like you know I'm saying like how was that for you so it was crazy like I remember 28 it was 2018 we we were talking and I went in to meet with Fila and I literally just went in because I wanted some like I left Fila went to Adidas for a couple years went to Nike and I finished my career wearing Nike yeah and so I'm in New York um John Epstein who's passed away but he was the the CEO then he was the CEO when I was with Fila at the end I just went in to kind of clear the air we had you know hadn't caught up in a while and and I was just like I was just like man if I could get some you know some gear I'm good and he was like you know we want to we want to reconnect the 90s are in um kids today like like things that have a story yeah and so like vinyl vinyl's in with this young demographic vinyl there's a story you know got the photo album you got the credits like it's just a picture like very different than kids now just downloading there's no you know back in the day that's how we felt connected to the artists Yeah by looking at the you know read the book so the shoes too like there's a story behind it and people like they want that and so I was like all right y'all say something like I I was thinking that people really want the shoes but they put them back out like you know I still get a royalty check and um and it's you know it's crazy you know so it's it's all good but I never saw that coming never saw that come yeah it's part of the culture it's it's it's it's culture driven so I'm I knew it was it was coming back right just seeing everything else come back like yeah you got to get them Grant Hill them feel the ground here that's the only time I hear feel a name is when they mentioning Yoshi name hey but tell me this though so your rookie year you the first rookie to ever get lead to lead the all-starring votes like that's cool now then your second year you out vote MJ what the [ __ ] like dude like come on bro like what that was crazy that was crazy where your mind went when that happened like that's like that's not gonna happen but then that happened yeah no I mean that that was that was I still don't you know I don't know how that I'll be honest with you I mean that was like I gotta I gotta came back too so yeah he did and he coming off Space Jam like it was just a lot of you know the league needed him everybody wanted him back embraced him back and at this point you know I kind of gotten to know Mike Mike um I see him in Durham you know from time to time um but a real funny story so I'm I'm in La the summer of 95 after my rookie year and um I'm there to do I'm taping Living Single so I did doing that and they built this this dome for Mike on the Warner Brothers lot and I find out that they're playing pickup ball and um so I go over there now I got my Grant Hill twos with the patent leather and he's got his with Jordan Space Jams with the patent left yeah so we like I'm thinking like oh this dude you know he's stealing my padlocks they're not out yet they did not in the stores yet and so we're playing pickup ball now that first day man when I tell you I gave him the business I was killing him like I was like literally like my jumper I didn't really shoot the ball with my jumper was hitting I'm crossing them up like I'm just like I'm going at him to the point where once again I'm done I get on the phone with my boys man yo I'm killing Mike man my you know all of that and then I came back the next day oh my like a whole another person I should have just quit while I was ahead man and I don't know if I was really killing them like like like I said but in my mind I was killing them oh you hit one shot on Mike it's like we were teams but but like man the next day all that footwork and the pose like guarding me not letting me get anywhere like it was a whole different person and um but I had that one moment and um and uh but now he I always enjoyed competing against him and competing with him in the All-Star Game and uh but I didn't guard him a whole lot because I I've messed up matched up with Scotty a lot but um to beat him in the All-Star like come on man I I still I don't know if my mom was you know vote multiple times or what but something happened well I got to the league uh one of my moves that used to work was that right to left crossover seeing your right to left crossover all the time like how was it for your right to left to work when you send your rights left work every game because I've seen you bring it out here again you don't bring it out all the time one time maybe in the first half one time maybe in the second half to see that mood work how was that because I seen you cross Scotty and dunk that thing and I was like that that right to left work every single time he bring it out yeah you know it's funny because I would go through the My legs left to right and then try to come cross over and and that came from watching Chris Jackson and Tim Hardaway but I couldn't do it like as fast and I I just couldn't so to me that like dribbled through the legs is kind of a lazy and then either I'd cross you up or go yeah you know and I probably carried a little bit but um but no I mean like I said like I don't think I don't think players were um used to somebody like that back then uh somebody told and I remember man I remember years later I was guarding KD I was in Phoenix I'm going Durant and you know with Durant like back then my my strategy with Kevin was um you know he kind of kind of shoots him his left side so he's gonna go left he's gonna pull up yeah if he goes right I want to force him to go right but I want him to pull up yeah you know he may get to the right I don't want him to go right to the room to the Mob yeah and so man one time he's guarding me and he did a he did a double crossover on me and like oh yeah yeah you know he I don't know what he did but he did something and it was just like man like you know the bar just gets you know Annie had a crazy jump shot but um but the game that's part of the game evolving you know and you you know we're standing on each on other people's you know games and we get inspired by that and you know you see guys now doing things that are amazing but back then I think like like Jay Kidd like I think one of the things with Jay Kidd he didn't beat you with anything uh he was just so fast yeah the speed crossover exactly he just changed Direction yeah and I you know I think I think I was deceptively quick you know you look at sometimes I look at the stuff I'm like man it looks slow but I think I could cover I could get by pizza and uh and I didn't really shoot the ball that great I developed that later but um but yeah on the crossover like I said DC everybody went across over like that was that was it I want to rewind back to the to going out that lay and being in the dome because you you share something like me and my boy here you was in year two you know what I'm saying you was going out there lady be a big Time TV show star on Living Single we did those things we was on arless and one-on-one but I don't remember the all this one yeah I remember yeah like tell me how that was for you and this like I'm gonna bring up my wife and I gotta bring up Ashley because they big Living Single fans like literally you know how everything on the on the apps now I wake up in the middle of the night and living singles on TV in my house so so for real it was like I didn't see it but she was like you gotta ask him about the about being a living singles so she was throwing it to me how was that for you and it she brought up a great Point she like how come in the 90s order where we did it in the early 2000s but like why all the TV shows always had us in some Elementary School gym with a look you know they can't put the NBA stuff and then they got us dunking on a little basket like that like how was that whole experience for you though we write about the basketball court um that was that was crazy so I I didn't know what I was getting into and this man was on there for y'all don't know please go look at that he on there playing the piano he's I mean everything so let me tell you something so let me tell you something so I so I I had done earlier that year I did Home Improvement so I did that but that was just you know that was based in Detroit right it was a natural so and it was just like one scene and so it was like easy and so they agreed they asked me to do it so I flew out to L.A and um remember the old hotel Nico Beverly Hills yeah maybe it's a different name but um when you guys got there but it was um so I'm staying there they dropped the script off the night before the reading and so I didn't even look at the script because I'm like I'm just got one scene I'm not you know so we get to the table reading and if if we tape on a Tuesday night I think the table reading is like the next day so it was like a Wednesday and um so they taped the episode before the night before and then we're sitting there and we're going through and I'm like damn I gotta really act like I got a lot of stuff here like I'm like I'm like they got me you know kissing and they got me playing yeah they got you singing I'm like you know I can't do all that like I'm like not that I'm like I can't I'm just like like yeah I didn't sign up for this and so so the funny thing is is that we go through we rehearse all week we got the weekend off that's when I was playing ball with MJ we do a dress rehearsal the night before I think was like the Monday night the following week so I had a you know I had a kissing scene with with with Latifah right on the couch and but we never rehearsed so I didn't know like what are we doing here you know like it was never nobody told me like kids like the neck right so so the scene was the scene was we kissed into to Black so that means kiss the commercial right until we get cued we gotta stop kids when to stop kissing see I got holes so yeah so so uh so we do the scene like I mean I if I see it now like leading up to I'm nervous I'm nervous about to get like doing this part like I'm like I don't know what like what are we doing and it's never been discussed what is it like talk to me I don't know you know I mean like I'm I'm not the real actor here you know what I'm saying like and so scene comes and you know you start kissing and and they don't kill us and so it felt like we were on the couch like forever longer than I had anticipated let's leave it at that and so uh but anyway now it was it was you know it was it was it was cool it was it was a show I still get more people that talk to me I could run into them like man I saw you a little single yeah or people might even tweet and all everybody loves it hilarious but that was a classic show and I was you know yeah but I I I I I definitely did more than I than I bought man we're playing piano singing saying the Queen Latifah the regime yeah regime oh that thing was funny man the decision to to leave Detroit and and go to Orlando like uh just take us through the process of the talks the what made you decide to finally go what you was thinking on as the team was getting set up with tmac and particularly maybe Duncan trying to come over like what was your what's your version of of it well two things one I never thought I'd leave Detroit yeah and I I mean I obviously did but um my intention was you know like to me it was Isaiah like every before every game in the palace I looked at his Banner like to me I'm that's the standard that's what I'm chasing that's what I want to accomplish um and when I got hurt I hurt my ankle it was kind of mismanaged at the end of that last year um I was probably emotional and probably upset and directed A lot of that anger towards the team and uh and so I think in that moment then I started thinking like man I'm out you know basically long story short like yeah I'll go through that yeah exactly so um but I think prior to that prior to the injury I wasn't thinking at all about leaving Detroit and so you know Tim and I had the same agent and we both made a trip down to Orlando um the year before that year Doc Rivers coached them they were 500 they had a lot of pieces they didn't really have the Stars you know they had some good support pieces and um we had a good visit um you know obviously I've said this before publicly that you know Tim's girlfriend asked doc good wives or girlfriends travel on the team plane if I dropped the ball on this one ball yeah I mean dropped the ball on this one Bob and so I didn't know at the time but I guess that last year in San Antonio the Spurs started allowing that to happen and started really recruiting her in a way to help keep temp this is what I've been told I don't know if this is the absolute cert absolute truth and so she was accustomed to that for me at that point like girlfriends and wives didn't travel on teams right like that was like to me that seemed like a like a unusual question yeah it depends like like well it's changed now everyone a usual thing but if somebody was if we going home and they there instead of them waiting the whole day to the next day to leave they'd be like come on ride back with us when I got to Phoenix like that was under yeah that was that was the whole difference you know our homeboys can sit in practice Yeah like you know the arena that little yeah our homeboys would sit like in chill and watch practice so that was the first time that I experienced that when I got to Phoenix seven years later but at that point when I heard that question I was like that just seemed it seemed out of the ordinary but um and then T-Mac he didn't make the trip but they were talking about look we can get all three of y'all I don't think I didn't know T-Mac was that good I knew he was good right and he I didn't either at that point so I got to the league I didn't know I mean he was good in Toronto yeah he could defend he could score yeah but I I didn't realize so I'm thinking you got me you got Mac you got Tim man We're Off to the Races like we're like and uh and then Tim you know ended up staying they recruited him hard David Robinson flew back from Hawaii like and he did he made the right decision I mean that was obviously the right thing but you know for me I showed up my ankle just wasn't right and it you know like basically long story short came back too soon and probably should have waited initially a little bit longer and then coming back too soon I'm gonna probably explain more than I should but um I ended up getting what's called a non-union in a non-union is that if if these two fingers are are one bone and they break typically what they do is they you know put them back together they put pins in there to hold it together and let the body heal but the two bones healed but they didn't heal together and so now that's what took essentially three more years and three more surgeries to try to get that to heal so I do think I can't say this with absolute certainty but I think if if we had waited a little bit longer and I and I'm I'm responsible as well as I can't blame the team like to me nobody put a gun in my head and said you got to play but like that sort of derailed the next four years but what was interesting though right away I'm sitting there like man this team mad kid like before the season starts I'm like Oh my like man if I can get right with him yeah he went through one he went through every time I seen it was 30. I want to ask you this though uh I want you to explain from your point of view and I want you to explain how strong your wife has to be right in this right like when you're going through an injury doing the things that we're doing and doing for something that we love so much to do and you can't get out there and play to go through that injury you have to persevere you got to have a mindset you know what I'm saying a strong mindset and it'd be tough days that you have I want you to just explain to like man what you went through when you went through that whole process to not give up on yourself to finally come back with Phoenix and so forth because I see every player like when I see D Rose when I see another player that go I know the mindset the mental the daily work the everyday and not only you if you have a spouse or a wife she has to go through that same stuff with you and be there with you on your low days and on your high days so explain that that too and you've had you had a knee right didn't you yeah yeah so you you both probably I live a fraction yeah Michael fashion yeah so no that's that's a great question I think first of all with with the with the wives with the spouses that um I think everybody sees the perks that come with being married you know to somebody in the NBA um but there's also there's there's challenges you know what I'm saying the schedule you know being gone uh times I think feeling like you're you know a single parent you know this is so it's not I have respect for that I think unless you've been in it it's hard to fully understand but then the injuries like that's you know I so you know I had five ankle surgeries um and I'm on crutches and so you know I had a little bell you know and it's like I need something you know what I'm saying and so to me it like eventually through that Bell yeah and then when I had to have like I don't know my third surgery fourth surgery it was kind of like like I remember she was like I can't take another start like it just so it's a toll yeah on them you know I do think for us though as athletes we're naturally conditioned to fight and I always say like we're in a game you're down 10 with six minutes left you believe you got a chance yeah you know what I'm saying you go against we talked about Michael Jordan you're going you're not going you're going out there to compete yeah you know what I'm saying you playing the Bulls are you playing you know the the Warriors during their during their Dynasty um or you're playing any great team you going in there feeling like you're gonna win and you may not win but you that's the mindset that I think Sports helps to cultivate and and so going through an injury it's like like I'm a I'm a fight through this for me what I realized I suppress a lot of like I just kind of like I'm gonna get through it like I'm here like okay I'm gonna make up it on the back end I kept saying I'm gonna play till I'm 40. and I'm telling y'all the day I turned 40. I was with the Clippers my last year my knee it was like like I was done and it was training camp and I knew like my body and I kept saying I should have said 45. but you know but like but yeah like I think I think it's so going through all of that it was hard I don't think I really dealt with it until I got in the Hall of Fame and what I mean by that is I'm the type of person that I'm gold like oriented I got things I want to accomplish um I don't look back I'm constantly looking forward in my house in Detroit my house in you know Orlando different different stages of my career and where we've lived I've never displayed my accomplishments because I'm always trying to go forward trying to do something new trying to accomplish something else I always felt like that made you soft if I did that because you rest naturally on your law so I wanted to stay hungry and uh and so when I got to the Hall of Fame and that build up to the Hall of Fame that's naturally a moment to reflect it's natural yeah you're just gonna reflect on everything it's the last it's like the Capstone on your career and so in that moment I think I started to realize that I suppressed a lot of things and didn't fully deal with them in real time and look I mean people suppress things that are far worse than not being able to play but um but I was just driven like I was like I'm I'ma figure out a way to stack my days just stacking my days and so I wasn't the same player when I came back and that's the one not that I have regrets but you know I think when you when you have your art when you have your weapons and you and you go out on the court you have to have a belief I don't care who you're going against you always feel like I'm the best player or I'm gonna win this matchup yeah and and I felt that before I got hurt like when I was on that court I'm like man MJ he got to guard me yeah you know like you know whatever I mean just you have to think that way you guys have all felt that way yeah you got to be there I know because I played against y'all and I can feel it and you can tell when somebody done you know when somebody's scared yeah and so when I came back I didn't have that same Edge I didn't have that same I don't want to say same dog but that same standard maybe I was just happy to be back which is a beautiful thing you know what I'm saying you've been out for so long it's beautiful to be like I'm appreciative but like I didn't I didn't come back like you know kicking ass taking names type of dude I came back just like hey you want me to guard you want me to do that no I'll do it you want me to like you know you know what I'm saying I had a lot of respect for when you did finally make it back to the court because I could remember we we played we guarded each other and I was like you know like in my mind you know how whatever it is you like all right like he ain't he ain't that g here just about the goddamn but I can remember being like yo like after the game like [ __ ] ain't about nothing like G Hill out here going though like play hard and [ __ ] you know what I'm saying was like like you said Garden doing everything I can't believe this man playing this [ __ ] hard like he playing hard he was playing hard as hell like like hustling and like then I felt like you was more you had gotten stronger it was way more physical than I was like he trying to push and like I'm The Pusher like you're trying to push me like okay but like I can remember then I remember you playing like you got like uh I think like oh nine one of them you play like all 82 games and I remember like it wasn't like obvious it wasn't like big deal but I'm one of them people to watch all the games I can remember them talking about and I was like God damn like like I remember having a whole lot of respect for that like boy this boy went through what he went through and like we was all talking about like yo G Hill playing hard as [ __ ] like you know what I'm saying like so it was a respect factor from us for it I appreciate you sharing that I mean I think you look at that and like I said it's not a bad thing but like every moment is like you you look at it differently I'll tell you a story so in 2000 and this is how silly it's foolish I could be but 2000 All-Star Game in San Francisco and um I wore contacts and you know back then the trainer would hold your contacts you know I'm saying so you went on the road the trainer holds your contacts if you went broke or whatever you just called a trainer up that's how spoiled we are as NBA players so I go to all-star weekend and I only have like one pair of contacts and so the night before the game one of them breaks and so the trainer's not there and so I'm like what do I do you know I'm saying like and so do I just not wear any so I wore one contact and it didn't have the other one on and during the game I threw I tried to throw an alley-oop to Vince and I threw it like way over and so I really just I was off you know what I'm saying and so I remember I was telling my friend I was telling about I was like he was like really he's like yeah I tore my contact and I said oh they'll be next year and and then next year you know I was hurt and so when you you know when you go through that you appreciate it more and that's why I use my playing hard and it's every possession and and feeling like I had to play hard because I didn't have all my weapons and I couldn't do everything I was older um and it was crazy I remember I used to get to the jump ball and uh this is you know Phoenix shoes I get to the jump ball and you see somebody whatever and they look up in my head and they see the Grays and I was like oh they see my gray I'm gonna run the [ __ ] out of them and so and like I'm just gonna run up and down the court all day exactly three four layups just beating everybody down the floor yeah and um but I mean it was you know what I'm glad I did it I still had the desire to love and once it's over it's over and I saw that with my dad I saw it with his generation that once you walk away from it there's no going back no that's definitely yeah so I'm gonna do it as long as I can and we're in a league that you know they smell blood if if they see you got an injury you a little bit hurt you can't do the things that we didn't seen you do before it's we're not taking nobody is taking no no no no no chance on you they're not giving you nothing they're not gonna you gotta take everything you get in this league so I know like when you come back it's like just seeing Penny you know penny is one of our favorites and getting into the league and Penny is with Phoenix if anyone the guy that was jumping and moving and all that and we was going at his ass like let me let me tell you a story about that not Penny but a story about MJ so his last year with the Wizards it's gonna be his last season we go to DC we played them earlier in the year and it was crazy like I'm guarding MJ and he's you know he's older than that so he's not obviously we we guys were in the league when he was playing that year but I blocked his shot two or three times like I feel like like I'm just kind of like you know like Gardner you know what I'm saying and so we played him on TNT and we go to DC and my doctor who was in Baltimore I think this was like this was the 2002-2003 season so it might have been like in November or December I go see the doctor my ankle's messed up again and like I'm gonna have to have season ending surgery but I want to play against Mike one more time one more time like because I know this is it like I'm not gonna see him again man he was killing me yeah once again I should have quit the Let It Go when I was ahead but the ego The Pride the competitor so the same stupid little turn down play and I couldn't I couldn't move and he and he knew like you know so to your point like you know like you know when you you know when somebody's scared you know you just know it and and you know when somebody wants to compete and you respect when somebody's going to want to square up with you and compete you may win they may win but you respect that they're not scared I want to get your your take your perspective because we had a few guys on here that was part of that team the college select team that played against the Dream Team and and we had a few different stories about you know how y'all was doing well and we had Mashburn High bird ran up on them and talk talk Reckless to him like tell me your perspective like how was that for you the whole experience what was you thinking before during and after that whole experience with the Dream Team man that was one of the best best weeks of My Life um I mean just as a fan it was after my second year at Duke it's me Mashburn Allen Houston Penny Bobby Hurley Montross Rodney Rogers eight of us whatever and well oh man I can't see well yeah I mean we so we get to La Jolla we're in a nice hotel resort we get there early um we go out and play that first game and I know there's been a lot of talk about what happened but we we we we busted you know we yeah we yeah we went at them Alan Houston hit like 10 threes Weber was just dunking everything inside Bobby could get by into the paint make plays um everybody Penny myself we're bringing about like dunk like just it was it it was one of the more like most magical moments that I've ever had because you're going against these Heroes and we didn't have like we didn't like nowadays you a top high school top college player you might play against a pro you might see him shoot you might have played against him in high school you know what I'm saying I guess back then it was just it was a little bit different team of them yeah so all these are legends magic bird Michael like you know Clyde Pat Ewing Malone I mean just down the list and so and then well before that day though before that day so we had a little practice the day before and we all were getting back from practice and we get on the elevator and Larry Birds on the elevator and he's chirping now at this point I didn't realize Larry talked trash yeah but he's talking and I didn't realize how big he was yeah he's 6'10 right and and but he's on I'm like yo he talks a lot of trouble like I didn't I didn't see that I didn't think that he was a trash talker but um but not man look you know coaching Faye he was like talking all this noise and so Coach K in the Dream Team documentary said that Chuck Daly through that scrimmage to kind of get them to focus but nah ah and he tried to say Michael they sat Michael out man look he might not have got all of it he got some of it but it ain't like the rest of the guys were terrible like you go you know what I'm saying like even if Michael did sit they should they still should have won now the next day we couldn't get the ball over half court we had Michael and Scotty he pressed up man it was it was a whole but it was a whole different it but it won't come up like you know what I'm saying and it showed them that they could lose yeah but that was man we were in La Jolla we you know we man we're hanging with Mike Scott like it was just man it was Unreal we still we We Talk Amongst ourselves like Penny myself Allen we got to do a documentary on that week yeah just through our lens we all on the verge of being in the NBA we all you know a lot of us go on to be All-Stars yeah but what that was like for us but that showed me yo I could play on this level like that showed me I can play with these guys and uh it was it was a real eye buddy I need that document I need to see all that I need I need this yeah how is it to her like your peers like uh you know guys like even on our show man guys just because I know your career didn't go the way you wanted it to go but man to hear guys like us and other guys and other veterans and Hall of Famers just speak up on your game what they liked about your game the way you play the way you carried yourself like how is that for you no I mean look I mean anytime somebody you know says anything that's that's positive that you feel good about it I think I think what I struggled with was I don't know if I saw what everybody else saw or with those people such as yourselves have said today and also said throughout the years and what I mean by that is for a period of time looking back on my career I saw the struggle I saw the hurt fighting through the injury and then coming back and and having to outrun cue to score like you know I'm saying like like being that role player and sometimes I forgot who I was before all that and um and so you know I think writing a book having to go back and live in these moments and you know talk about things where you know what I recall like it helped me sort of appreciate the totality of my career and appreciate those moments because like you know like like my wife you know it's fine it's a bad announcement but my wife you know my wife is recording artists and all that and so and she's not super super active but she still works and you know gets out there from time to time but you know we live in Orlando and like you know she'll play tennis with you know the ladies at the tennis club or whatever and they don't really know who she is you know what I'm saying and so they're like oh you sing do you do bar mitzvahs and weddings you know like so they don't you know but then we go to certain markets yeah and like we go to Atlanta we go to Detroit we go to DC like she's a star and so sometimes you forget who you are or forget what you've done yeah and so for me to be able to reflect to go through the Hall of Fame to write a book to just like like just appreciate those years but here's the thing I'm chasing Isaiah I'm chasing Legends when I'm in Detroit we're not winning we're not having that success we won 28 games My First Year 46 my second 54 my third and then we went backwards my last three years and so to me I didn't it wasn't because I was in Detroit or but we weren't winning yeah you know I came from duke where it was about winning yeah and I felt like we had a chance even if we didn't win the goal was to win and you start looking around like when we know we're close to winning yeah and so it was hard for me to celebrate my own individual when as a team we weren't having that kind of success I never lost ever in my life until I got to the NBA being on just losing it's hard so it's hard to just lose when you ain't never lost like that before no question I'll say this from this perspective being who who you understand who you were in the projection of where everything could have went if you stayed healthy for you to have that perseverance and and and and fight to go through everything you went through and then still like like you said when you came out on the other side you knew you weren't the same dude but for you to still operate the way you did and go about things the way you did and be like I you were an example and I wasn't even in that locker room just to know that you came back and did what you did and were doing what you were doing in that way us as players and peers respect we viewed it with a great deal of respect like damn like you know what I'm saying because like you got money I didn't have that much money like I like you know what I'm saying you didn't have to keep doing what you were doing you were straight fall intense and personally but like that was more to me like he's showing about love for the game passion going about it and then like to come out here and like you say it was Grant Hill like and then to come back and not be there you ain't have to do that like you know what I'm saying like that was that was dope to me well I appreciate you you sharing that and and first of all I think I think it's hard in any sport when you've been you've been you know at the top and now to not be that same player and you know for me sometimes it just happens gradually as you get old exactly you know you kind of you and you adjust you adjust your game accordingly but for me like it happened like yeah and so I'll give you an example my last year in Detroit and I know somebody is going to correct me on this but like my last year in Detroit against Orlando I might have averaged 38 30 or whatever high 30s 40 a game against Orlando Monty Williams coach of Phoenix money is my guy I come the next so that was 2000 season I come to Orlando and September we're playing pickup ball and Monty's kicking my butt and and so and obviously I'm not right you know I'm saying and Monty's a great player but like he's having his way with me and so like to not like I said to not are you accustomed to being able to do things and then not being able to do it and then okay how am I going to adjust yeah and and so sometimes I wish I would have pushed myself a little harder but also I'm proud that I was able to reinvent myself yeah I went to Phoenix now I go from having a ball in my hands my whole career now I'm standing in the corner yeah trying to be this guy like in Phoenix like like they had confidence in you to to not only play but we finna put you on the best player yeah like you got a known history of having an ankle problem but we putting you on Kobe we putting you on every team's best player and they have the confidence in you so that should be a definitely a big confidence booster in you for the organization a team to believe in you and not only believe in you but to be like yeah we we trust in you to make their best player have the hardest game they can have and out of all the players that we got you the one that we choosing to do that coming off not playing that many years and you know what I'm saying well first of all I don't know if I made it hard for Kobe no you didn't but like you know like but I kind of part of Reinventing I became a defense to stop yeah and I was like they put me on Tony Parker they put on Baron Davis they put me on Monte Ellis they put me on whoever on the perimeter and I and I kind of relished that uh that role but I think part of it and this is not an indictment on players today or or the environment of Grassroots basketball today but when we came up you went to the park or you went to the playground you went to the gym we probably played with older people and the thing about the park is one the objective is to win but the two is how do I add value on this court because if if I pick so and so and they can't shoot but they're taking jumpers like they they can shoot like him they're not gonna get picked so you got to figure out how I can okay I'm 12. I'm 13. I'm playing with 20 yo I'm playing with men I can't play with them like I play with my boys so I got to set screens I got you make a mistake you can't make a mistake yeah young fellow I shouldn't even picked a young fellow man and I don't think kids today experience that they learn in a silo yeah with a coach trying to learn trainer they don't learn how to like okay but they don't get the other stuff that comes with it and part of it even too like I feel like strategy of the game we grow up being GM's okay I got my five I got I got to get a shot I want to play with yeah you know what I'm saying how are we gonna what are we gonna do to where we can stay on the court all day all day yeah and sometimes your boy you're like yo like man you got to sit this one man like you know whatever whatever it can be you figure out how to add value I'm not I'm not the ball's not going to be in my hand Steve Nash two-time MVP Amari screen and roll I'm not a great shooter I can hit the corner three what do I have to do to stay on the court and you figure it out yeah and that's what I you know and I just feel like that Foundation of how we came up playing you figure it out yeah what do I got to do now when we get older and we you know we we can dominate the court when we're coming up but when you know when we're at that level yeah but there's a point where you're trying to like play with the big boys you're trying to but the objective is to win and so that to me was I got to play this role and this is what I got to do that it's a different role than what I've done before but I'm gonna do it and actually you know what I actually enjoyed it like I enjoyed I'll say this man like if you look at the 19 years of my career being like a you know the All-Star Superstar level being hurt and having to go through all of that and then coming back being a contributor being a role player and in my last year in LA I'm not playing so I'm coming in three on three like matter of fact games will be over I'm like I got home I gotta go home and sleep because my game's tomorrow you know and you do them four on four or three on threesome yeah right now on some roster this you know not getting playing time to practice telling them come on let's get our work in and somebody getting an attitude and they don't want to do it Grant [ __ ] here and I was doing it and look we had we had it so you know we had a crazy team we had you know Blake Chris Paul DeAndre but we had like Matt Barnes Caron Butler Jamal Crawford Willie Green Billups I mean we had a we had a we had a we should have done better we had a really good team but like to me like that was like because you love the game man look I don't know if you guys physically can still play you know I don't know these news ain't working no more I can I choose not choose I want to stay healthy you want to stay healthy man so it's it's quality ligaments and tight so it's a it's a privilege yes it's an honor to be able to in this in the NBA yeah come on man every day is an opportunity man and you got to stay and you know what there were times where you got to go in and play You Gotta Stay sharp but to me that was my game I couldn't wait to go home after the game man I'm gonna come in tomorrow I'm doing man yeah I'm you know and so just you know and and so anyway one of the things I I miss is being able to play yeah that's what I'm gonna say what do you miss about the the game and I mean I miss everything and I'm still around it I'm still around it like you guys are in a bunch of different ways but nothing nothing replaces open hooping and I'm talking at the highest level in the NBA but I'm talking practice I'm talking at the lot rules the bus belonging to something yeah camaraderie all of that that's what that was one of the things when I when I first like when I it was over like uh I got I got cut at the training camp in in Orlando in 2013 and I set out that whole year and I played uh picked up for the playoffs with the Knicks then it was done but like that year was I think that was the I say I went through my process of like detaching from shift was like you know that was like like you say when your spouse like walk in the room I got attitude I'm the Mad baller I want to watch no hoop he weak he we [ __ ] I ain't playing like you know so I went through all of that that year then it got signed at the end of the year so when I got signed I kind of knew like yo this could be it this little playoff runs the Knicks and then come be it was like I was kind of cool with it then but like I went through all them phases and I'm sitting there looking like man it's some [ __ ] like you know understand like man I supposed to be [ __ ] out here like what the [ __ ] going on then it's like that's it that's your time boss like what else you gonna do you ain't got no choice ain't no phone calls coming in you can't you know it ain't all good like like how you think it's gonna be that [ __ ] just over with it's over and the thing that you've committed your life to you know the thing that you we talked about getting to the draft like but just from then on like everything you've done and then all like what do they say athletes die twice and there's a part of you that dies when the when the realization sets in that you no longer can do it you've been a you've been uh since since we were four five three however old you were when you started playing and stuff we've been a Hulk of magic a warrior a Cavalier a Clipper or whatever the [ __ ] we were we've been part of that team since forever we've never not been like I told my wife that one time she know what's going on like I'm like man I ain't never not being like you know what I'm saying like somebody at this time in life forever I can't even remember not being like on the team like [ __ ] I'm like like and she was like you know like it took some like getting used to and like learn like how the [ __ ] am I supposed to be how many years did y'all play in the league uh I got ten thirteen thirteen okay we all came up with people you know Boys in high school whatever who had the same dreams that we had we were fortunate to take it further at some point they had to walk away but my my theory is the longer you do it the harder it is to walk away you know okay 18 I'm not good enough to go from high school to college all right you know I go to college start working whatever I can play at the Y whatever the case may be but you it's easier to accept but as the older you get and the longer you've done it I'm not saying that you know Finance I mean whatever I'm not saying that you know there's certainly perks and we all know that that exists but the the part of belonging like being a part of something bigger than yourself like that's something that that's all you know I'm 40 years old and and look I'm doing amazing things now in my my you know retirement if you will in my career and business and all that whatever um but nothing replaces and I'm 40 years old and I'm walking away from it and it's hard and this is the other reality you're walking into like you said we all been through we as athletes right we the only people when you talk about you look at people getting doctor degrees getting becoming lawyers or judges and all this and all when they when they reach the Pinnacle of their career they about to ride this thing out not us no if you lucky like you said 40. man you lucky you get the 32. you know I'm saying 30. yeah you know what I'm saying we was looking for all of us got past that age but I'm saying like then as soon as you you know and I know you know it for a fact because we do similar things like I don't care who you are as soon as you walk out of the door and you not doing this no more you back at square one they tell you they don't want you they don't us they don't want us walking in the door to be an analyst at Turner or to work for the magic they don't want us walking in talking about we played 20 years in the league we know this and that now I want you to humble yourself when you starting over from block hey you need to come in pin and Pat a hand ready to learn humble and you don't know more than me like and in some respects I'm sitting here like time out I do need to learn I do need this but [ __ ] that I know more than you like I've been doing this since like what you talking about and I know it deep in way more in depth than you like what you talking about like and we found that out along the way too like yeah we do need to learn a [ __ ] life but like hold up we could teach y'all some [ __ ] too I mean there's the technical aspect of like certain things I mean you guys have obviously done very well here and done other things in media and so yeah you're making that transition you got to learn okay I'm supposed to speak or project or do this or do that but when it comes to basketball no I mean look you know I know you guys know I mean I I know I know Q better I don't know you as well although we've you know competed against each other and so on but like just even playing against like I know you know the game yeah you know what I'm saying and you know it's more than just and I'm not saying you had to have gone through what we went through but it helps you know I'm saying when you know what it's like to lose you know and like you know going to losing streak okay then how do you manage that and how do you prepare like you you've lived it and so there's instantly a bond instantly a sense of like we understand each other to be a former player and be a a co-owner of a franchise like you know that's a dream come true for a lot of players to be in that position for you to be in that position and how is that for you and your family it's surreal um and the fact that it happened so quickly after I retired two years after I retired um but I was thinking about this from day one and um I remember I don't know if you were in Detroit when Mr Davis Bill Davis was the owner there no when I came of course okay so I remember I signed this big rookie contract back when my my year was the last year that you know oh yeah that one big dog held everybody hostage go ahead no I'm glad I'm glad big dog did because I probably got more money but I'm concerned about that but so you know 1994 I signed like 46 million dollars which is a lot of money now it's probably more money back then and I remember Bill Davidson like he owns his team this is just a little side thing he's got his real business over here and so I'm like man I want to be in that position one day and I want to be in that role uh and so I you know literally not sure how it would happen but I knew it would happen at some some point and so um but to have the responsibility Tony wrestler is our managing partner I'm Vice chairman of our ownership group to take a franchise and add value to it to build the infrastructure the new Arena practice facility G League team um you guys know this Atlanta was a team in a market that Atlanta was always a city everybody liked to go to love to people like to live there it's affordable it's a great cities got an International Airport there's a lot of culture there yeah but the franchise had never really been to the jump you know what I'm saying like it was just something was missing and so I always looked at that as as an opportunity and um and so we're proud of what we've done we're proud of of of you know of of the work but we know we got a lot more work in front of us you from Chicago you know there's a pride in Chicago for all Chicago Sports you know whether they're winning or losing you're loyal Philly has that Boston has that and so building that emotional connection with the audience like that's something that we work hard uh but it's fun like and the great thing is and I'm appreciative as a former player my voice is strong and they value my voice and my thoughts on things um you know and so we you know and one thing I think Adam Silver talking with Adam is he recognizes we need more former players in those roles who can add value to ownership groups who have a perspective that most ownership groups don't have I could look at our team and I know exactly what's going on like I mean different times and this is over the course of years I can say okay this they don't like this guy or this guy this guy's shooting too much or something's going on like you can just see it because you lived it yeah you know what I'm saying and so certain things that maybe others who haven't been through like you're saying you know you you have that perspective that's why you can walk in like you said you can see it they can be talking about it for a week and you walk in in one day and just start laughing and you know like straight up stay that's what I want to ask though you you refer to signing 46 million as a rookie first of all that shit's been over with they was the class to stop big dog big dog I wonder so what I want to ask is like from your perspective as a as a as a rookie part of the rookie class you about to get this big bag this is all normal for y'all at the time it's not like some craze happened when you see him say he holding out and it's like damn he demanded like like what like did y'all have any thoughts like should we be asking for more or what's like what like what was your just whole perspective when it was all happening so so Glenn Glenn Robinson was the number one pick Jay Kidd was two I was three um Danielle Marshall was four of the four of us I signed first and maybe they didn't like that because I kind of maybe set the market I think Jason went for 54. big dog was holding out for a hundred he ended up getting 60. I think he got like 68. and um but it was I mean man look I you could have given me 20 or 10 like I was just you know saying like you go from you know essentially I mean obviously my parents you know subsidizing me but I didn't have it I mean I didn't have any money on that and uh and then all of a sudden you you signed a contract like it's it's it's the most incredible thing and also the scariest thing at the same time but yeah I mean it was it was crazy and and they did away with that they after that immediately they did the rookie slotting now we got a rookie scale everybody scale you're slotted one through you can blame my class you can blame my class for that but that was uh no that was crazy man I gotta uh start bench trade for you know start one you got bench one you gotta trade one uh Uh Kevin Durant T-Mac and bird who do you start who you've been to Detroit I'm awesome that's actually not so hard for me preference based but yeah I mean that's that's that's tough man because like I hated Larry Bird but man he was he was cold but you know I'ma stick with the modern era so I'm gonna go I'm gonna go start the rant Benchmark and I'm trading bird I'm sorry because I don't you know I don't know how his game it'd be interesting it's unfair to compare errors but you know shoot I think Larry Bird would probably do that too I think he would give these folks work um I think he would say the same thing I said yeah I think he would do the same there was something similar so I always ask this question on here and I mean I feel like without even asking it you being a part owner in the Hawks is is sufficient enough but we gonna bypass that that little piece of information like we don't know I want to know maybe maybe the young wild G Hill that was like when you sign that 46 I don't know what what what G Hill did the biggest purchase you made well you look back on it like what the hell was I doing but in that moment you enjoyed the headlights no house and I'm talking about something where you look back on it like yeah that was stupid or crazy but it was it was fly at the time and we didn't have some crazy here's the thing though like and this this may surprise you a little bit I didn't buy anything my first like um I didn't like I didn't buy a car I was in Detroit got one free I had a deal with General Motors they gave me the car and then they gave me another car they gave me a car and then they gave me a car I could rotate every like two months um [Music] I was with Fila they owned Ferrari so they gave me a Ferrari oh [ __ ] and uh man got a free ride I think the only thing like I really got into like my advice is was probably closed like buying suits and um but like like I mean I didn't have I didn't I didn't go crazy like like out the gate like I didn't at any point win like tmac bought a plane he had the craziest one he had it was you on his teammate did he tell you all that about the jet about the jet yeah okay so let me tell you this funny story with that so y'all know you know Dorian Boylan he owns a Mercedes dealership Yeah Yeah from baseball player from baseball okay I won't mention it anyway so I Charter a plane to go to Atlanta this might have been like 2009. I pull up to the plane they give me an upgrade you know from a midsize jet to a bigger jet and I pull up and it's T-Mac on the tail yeah and come to find out like this dude bought this big old plane had a flight attendant in there like 12 13 seats on the plane and I'm like I'm like man what am I doing wrong like At first I was like man but then I started you know because I'm always you know I like I said and I have a different maybe a unique perspective in that just you know I heard all the horror stories from my parents my dad from people his generation and now they didn't make the money that we made during our time but like that's all I ever heard that people you know and not that everybody struggled but there were some that did so I always went in I always went in like fearful like paranoid um and so you know don't get me wrong over time as you make a lot of money and you put it away and you start investing and you do things you know I have a rather large home you know certain things that you know that I have but I don't regret you know what I'm saying but I didn't do that right away you know um but no I I don't really I mean I ain't get the purchase yet did y'all hear the purchase I need to hear the purchase what was it I know you didn't get do you did you get a jewelry what'd you get you got something to call or something I'm talking about out your pocket now that Rory that was given although that's [ __ ] ball I wish somebody gave me that's like a bar right there all right so I think when I was when I was when I was dating my wife and we we rented a house out Malibu I think it was like the summer of 97. and so I bought a Porsche convertible that we could you know that we would you know that we would have and we you know scoot around or whatever I was trying to impressed and so but then I'm moving back to Detroit where you don't really need them you need a pool trying to get rid of it so I think that was maybe like the first one where I was like that's what I'm talking about I wasn't this morning that is exactly what I'm looking for yeah you know at this point she just debris she ain't the wife yeah even even the Malibu yeah you know I'm not a crazy big Duke fan but I was really enjoying and loving the moment of all y'all being together and being there for Coach K and seeing just the errors of all the Duke greats how was that you know just feeling that and and getting that type of energy and being all in the room and seeing everybody that she probably ain't seen in years and you know something like this has never happened like that call them together at one time yeah like that was a dope moment it was it was a magical moment and um you know I think the the beauty of of of of Coach K I guess or one of the things that's unusual was just the longevity of his career and to be able to lead to motivate to inspire to teach young men over multiple eras is different we know just players today in the NBA are very different than our era and so how do you connect with them how do you treat you know how do you get through to that how do you recruit them yeah and so his ability to adapt and adjust over the years whether you love them or hate him you have to respect that he was able to do that so to see all these people from different eras from the early 80s up until you know late teens or whatever I mean all coming back it was it was a powerful moment I also it was funny because afterwards I went and sat with my wife and uh I told her I said there's no way there's no way in hell we're going to win this game and she said what do you mean I said if I'm 18 years old and I just experienced all of that it's gonna be hard for me now to like concentrate it's almost like the ring ceremony yeah you know when somebody team wins this opening night and they come out and lay an egg yeah and so and give give credit to Carolina they play great but like it was just it was too much yeah and but it was it was a great moment and uh you know and I'm glad he was able to kind of be celebrated on his way out that was a dope yeah dope dope moment and like I said just seeing the errors and how long I've been watching Duke basketball and just to see all the guys from JJ to the Boozer to everybody that was just dope that's how I knew that the Rivalry was real though when the only thing as a kid that I could draw the conclusion from I'm taking it back to Sega Genesis Coach K basketball they did not have UNC on the game do you remember that UNC was not on the game the question is did Coach Kane did he do it did Carolina say they didn't want to be a part of it listen that was my part but it was the hate so heavy that somebody that didn't make it happen or they didn't want it to happen hey I used to say the love is so fake but the hate is so real like it it just you gotta be a part of it to understand it but there's a respect yeah because we need each other to be good for the Rivalry to be good but we don't want the other to be that good what do Coach K mean to you like of the years and the friendships and the talks and even after you left overall it's in his career what do Coach K mean to you yeah I mean just Excellence um you know friendship um you know just the standard of you know there's a reason why he's successful and um outside of him being from Chicago that's right no and here's the thing so the funny thing was you know I can't imitate coach but you know every we all would imitate him at times and but he always talked about how he was from Chicago and now he was tough and he was like you know I got a bunch of suburban kids on my team you know and like you know and so you know and then you he talked about his you know the guys he grew up with in Chicago and he talked about how tough they were or different things he would do and he's trying to motivate us whatever and then you meet the guys and there's nothing tough about it you're like this is this is moon like this what was the nicest guy in the world you know so you know those are those were no but I mean but here's the I mean I'll say this about coach in Chicago he coached and look I get the perception I get Duke and it can be um people feel a certain way it can be polarizing but he coached like he was from the inner city of Chicago uh like they they really was a toughness about him of course he's polished he looks to party but like like he's a fighter I always show up there no he's a fight I wasn't the last game when he didn't like what happened he signed like that but we ain't done no no question no no question and so like like even like you know and I used to kind of roll my eyes and then I did it it was kind of brainwashed like taking charges like the thing about that is you're sacrificing your body for the team like that's the tough thing to do and so we'd have to take the charge drills like you had to take a if you didn't take a charge you didn't play and so you know what I'm saying and so so I know when you play against a new guy you're like they go taking them charges again but that was that was ingrained in us and the philosophy was just it was it was rooted in like like that that that's the that's the ultimate sacrifice maybe a little bit of West Point weed in there as well you know what I'm saying but like but that like you had to have that to play for them and here's a beautiful thing too he wasn't he'll get mad at me for saying this but he wasn't a great exyno guy he didn't beat you with x's and o's but he was great at getting you to believe and buy-in and taking all these different personalities and coming together and that's why I thought he was so great with the Olympic team because he can connect you know he goes out up yeah he can he can do he knows how to connect with everybody on a person he knew how to deal with me and dealing with me was different than someone else yeah that's his genius that's where he's so special excellent we didn't run nothing I mean when I was in school we didn't run any plays you know we just played but um but yeah I just think how to I think as a as a as an example of Excellence um but also as a leader you know what leadership is and uh leadership is connection leadership is honesty um leadership is doing and saying the tough things that need to be you know but all of that he gave us the blueprint and to me all those qualities not only work in basketball but they work in life and so I'm appreciative of that out of all the teammates shooting ahead over your NBA career if you had to pick four other players to add on to yours you're going to your five who would beat them for other players so I'm on it yeah all right you gotta before the players that all the teammates you can play in the NBA with if you had to pick four of them to get you a fire together to run it who were beautiful T-Mac T-Mac um multiple he's been in multiples you know I gotta put I gotta put Joe to Mars Joe Joe could play man so dude show could play he was older when I played with him but he could play um UT Mac Joe do you know you can go Smalls I got Chris Paul and I got Steve that's point guard so I got to figure out between those two um but I'll go with Steve I didn't really play so I'll go with Steve that's why I got Steve Joe me man I need a big um more stuff the White House OH Dwight or amariable oh yeah so so Steve Nash Joe dude I'm taking Joe off I'm taking Joe off okay [Laughter] I'm gonna go Steve mad Amari Dwight and Dwight wow that's a crazy thing yeah yeah like nowadays you you would go Amari but you know what I'm saying you couldn't have two bigs yes but with them how they run how do I know you gotta play with them that's gonna be I play with him after his knee and he was still no I played with him when he was good he ain't give a [ __ ] that's when like they listen Lee got lucky because he had delivered him he had the eye stuff before the need that that's what like slowed them down I remember that but I know that like he had two the underneath thing kind of they Nike was about to have to give him a shoe the league was about to be in his hands because after that year you guys had he was out of there he got hurt that next year that's what I'm telling you that's that's when he was about to do get the shoe and everything that's when it slowed down it had to he still came back with Avengers but it like you know it stopped the the whole extent no no you're right you're right about that you had a lot of dunk ons you know this this ain't your part of the second but you had a lot of dunk arms you just catching by you see no just dunk by herself all the time you had a lot of dunk ons who which one is like one of your favorite like one of your memorable moments that you always remember or they always see you send it to you on the ground or whatever but which one of them dunk on that you remember the most anytime you caught somebody you know especially a big guy well I mean yeah I mean I always like to and obviously we know the Ken base is going through some health right now so our prayers are with him but the kimbay was always fun and and he would always point the finger and it was kind of a a fun thing back and forth with him but it was Alonzo and uh you know there was that was there was a play and it was a play that um I think really kind of resonated in Detroit um and you know it's interesting because Detroit you know Detroit's obviously Blue Collar bad boys and all of a sudden this privileged kid from duke and all the perceptions that come with that comes to their city and so it's probably a weird thing for them for fans in Detroit at the time to digest um but there was a play um I'm on defense I'm guarding Hardaway and I go under the screen and Zoe's trying to roll back then you could roll and so somehow we get tangled up and I TR I guess he falls over me and it looks like a body slander and I body slammed him and threw them on the ground I'm like I get up I'm like oh [ __ ] like if we were in front of the bench you know and so I'm thinking okay these guys better come out here like you know in front of our own bench yeah and he gets up and the thing is like I know so like I've no Zone since high school like you know saying we we're from Virginia like so he didn't do anything but it looked like I threw him down like it looked and in the very next possession we go down the other end and I I you know I go against Marley I go Baseline and Joe comes and I and I dunk on him they hugged in it and uh yeah so that that sequence right there was was a was a and the funny thing was I'm a college roommate T Lang he's on the bench so I'm looking at him after I dunk because I talked you know I taught trash yeah it's a guy that's my guys I'm gonna talk trash to him but but that was that was probably the one I mean I had a few here and there but that was the one I think I know Zoe still thinking about this now ISO was one of my presenters at the hall of fame and part of it was what he went through with his injury yeah his his illness and how he fought through that yeah and when I was going through my stuff looking for inspiration he he helped Inspire us so yeah but yeah I mean I you know everyone was like Manzo must not like now that was my God always liked Zoe but you know when you compete you compete yeah man that's the big homie man all right that's a wrap man we was live on location with the legendary the Duke Legend the NBA legend Hall of Famer NBA top 75 all of that all of that all of that live on location G Hill man we appreciate you big dog I appreciate y'all foreign [Music]

Channel: The Players' Tribune

Views: 529,278

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Id: inYbFTqEkSc

Length: 126min 2sec (7562 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 26 2023