Iyanla Vanzant: Unmasking Imposter Syndrome

[Music] working it out a podcast show about diversity equity and inclusion in our workplaces our communities and our lives a show where we put diversity and inclusion to work got problems on job we working it out work got you stressing we're working it out working it out it out working it [Music] out hi I'm Dr Vanessa Weaver your host of workn out the show where we put diversity and inclusion to work I want to ensure that we're all on the same page when we talk about when this show uses the term diversity Equity inclusion because sometimes people ask me well what does that really mean so I kind of have a simp simple way for you to think about it diversity is being asked to the party inclusion is being asked to dance and Equity is making sure that you can get to the party Michelle Obama our former first lady recently openly acknowledged that she often experien impostor syndrome and that's going to be our topic for the show today her sharing that sparked a tremendous conversation about impostor syndrome and what it really means for a black woman for people of color for other diverse Equity uh for other diverse cohorts and also just people in general impostor syndrome is really characterized by self-doubt when you often have this fear of are you good enough will people really discover that you're not as connected or you not as on top of this topic as you as you thought you were and individuals grapple with these thoughts and particularly when people of color are faced with this they Wonder am I just really here because of affirmative action and many times people have said that so we often sometimes really believe it so the problem with the deposer syndrome is not that you ask the question itself because for many people in fact the data says that 70% of us will raise that question to ourselves well am I really ready for this job am I really good enough for this job the the challenge with imposter syndrome comes when that becomes a a habitual habit when you really become so obsessed with it or so ass sore with it that it immobilizes the choices you have and and pursuing other opportunities and I can tell you for over 30 years I've been coaching in Corporate America and this is a real topic so people sometimes think these titles mean little or nothing but I could tell you that imposture syndrome is real for a lot of us and so at some juncture in our lives after we've experienced this we need to take a pause and say hey is this a problem for me is this something that I need to get some coaching and some advice on so in today's show we are really excited to have with us the renowned Yana VanZant an incredible woman that I just admire and have a tremendous respect for as many of you know Yana produced executive produced and starred in her own show Yana fixed my life for over nine years and she coached not only celebrities but everyday people and Not only was she in that top rated show Butana is a pro prolific author she has written over 19 books sold 10 million copies and those books were translated into 26 languages so she's not only read in the United States but she is known all around the world and she is a Force for good having impacted so many of our lives so on today's episode aana will delve into her perspective of the impostor syndrome and sometimes people call it different things so you know you know we might slide into some different terminology we'll help you with that when we do that but Yana is going to talk to us about her take on the impostor syndrome and not only how it shows up but also she will help give some suggestions to many of those of to many of you who might be experiencing that so y I just want to say thank you thank you thank you for coming to the show today yeah thank you for helping us work it out okay because when you gave your definition and you said diversity was being invited to the dance inclusion was being asked to dance I said that Equity is being able to eat at the dance that they pass the all derbs by you well you know what I'm going to make sure I include that I like that anything when eating I enjoy it Yana before we delve into this impostor syndome and how it shows up and what people can do about it I would just love for you to share with with me and our audience what motivates you to engage in this kind of work were you coaching individuals to be our best selves and to making really some informed decisions about how we going to live our lives I guess I could ask you question why probably cuz I'm crazy but well that's our secret y we not telling the world about that well you know I am a I am a lawyer by training um so it's always been for me about supporting people and moving through difficulties um my deepest desire in my heart was always to be a nurse nurse I wanted to be a nurse I didn't even know that yeah I wanted to be a nurse I went to nursing school for one day not even one day maybe three hours and in my classroom I was sitting in in the lab and they were little baby pigs in a jar and I said to the instructor is it ever going to come a day when me and one of those pigs have to interface with each other and she said oh yes and I left but you know Vanessa it was really a calling I I guess when your purpose unfolds in you and you just take one step after the other in your purpose it blossoms you know I didn't I didn't start out doing this I started out uh teaching women on public assistants who were getting ready to go back to work so I was teaching them job Readiness and life skills and that blossomed into one thing it ended up with me having a radio show and then uh writing my first book so again I know it's my purpose I know I am on purpose and I just follow God's Direction and and do as I'm told most of the time wellan you know I've often said to you that we know as you know I'm trained as a clinical psychologist and we have uh different approaches to help people identify what some of the issues they're dealing with and and hopefully to grow and to heal and grow from them but I was always so fascinated on y fix my life how quickly you got folks to not only identify and work but work their issue and work to some resolution I just said now I spent all of those years in graduate school getting his PhD and here my sister Y is getting is getting closed to resolve these issues in a matter of a few hours how phenomenal that is but it was clear to me it was a gift and and I just appreciate the way you've chosen to use that gift to help others so let's get into this uh impostor syndrome what's your perspective on that do you believe that there is an impostor syndome oh absolutely I I experienced it myself when my daughter Jia died and I'm saving everybody in the world and I can solve this problem and that problem and I couldn't save my own child so it really made me doubt uh you know myself uh my capacity what am I doing and it didn't help that other people were saying that on social media that didn't help either you know and and the thing that I know is that whole notion of I'm not good enough I'm not doing it right it can either grow from inside of you what you're telling yourself your own internal narrative or it can be a response and a reaction action to what's coming at you I mean even today you can go on social media today and find a dozen people who call who are calling me a fraud you know she don't know what she's doing she's a fraud she's not this she's not that but it doesn't bother me anymore because I had to walk through that experience after Jamia died so it's real well when you said you had to walk through that experience and of course you and I I was involved and connected to you with you through all that experience and and the pain that I felt and I know it was not the pain of a mother was just tremendous because Jia was so brilliant and so kind and really a a full partner with you in your business and so to to lose all of that in a daughter I just couldn't comprehend the pain that you must be feeling so so how did you walk through that and know you said you had to walk through it talk a little bit about how you walked through that that well that's just what I did walk through it and and as you said in your opening very often that those thoughts that narrative those feelings can become debilitating and you know it's funny because one day I was having you know just a total breakdown about I'm not doing this anymore I can't do this anymore I can save the world and couldn't save my daughter and blah blah blah and I heard so clearly from within myself yla if they don't know that you can't do what what you say you can do then you're smarter than them anyway keep walking so than I just kept walking so you know I just kept walking I went to the next speaking engagement I did the next workshop and the other thing I really embraced uh for me I embraced a a Buddhist principle my dear friend Reverend Michael Beckwith said to me Yan for the next year do everything in her name if you're not good enough to do it do it in her name and so everything I did I did in jia's name I did for her I did because she supported it I did it the way she would have me do it and that's really how I got through it so fast forward 20 years later when I lost my second daughter you know last year I knew how to do it because the same feelings came up the same thing came up and it's like here you go again saving the world fixing people fixing lives and your daughter dies alone in her apartment and the first thing I said to myself was it's not gonna stop me it is not gonna stop me you know uh so again I think that you got to navigate and negotiate what comes up from your internal landscape right and then you have to really tune out what's coming from you to you from from the outside because sure enough when I went to my Instagram page there were people see I told you she was AF fraud she can't even save her own children well you know I really really thank you for sharing such a personal story and um and it's still so fresh and new and I guess it will always be fresh and new uh but one of the the points you talked about was the fact that you felt like you could save everybody here you were saving every everybody and and when it came to your daughters other people were saying this that you you couldn't save them although they had some real medical issues and and you never said you were God right so but we don't even get into that but one of the common characteristics of the impostor syndrome and I think this is really unique to to to powerful women uh to black women is this um Superwoman piece that you know we we we're socialized and and raised to believe that we could be all things to all people and we can solve all of these problems and issues and when you get into impostor syndrome they talk a lot about that being true for for us as women and I know when we look at these archetypes for black women the Superwoman is a pronounced one for us but it's also one for women in general so talk a little bit about that have you seen this Superwoman um archet yeah and I resigned I I resigned from that committee I no longer serve on the Superwoman committee oh good for you because to be a mother and to be a a professional and to be a partner and all of those things so I think I resigned from the Superwoman committee when after jia's death and that's been 20 years because I recognize the first person I need to take care of is myself so can I save me from what's going on inside of me let me handle that before I start reaching out and then the other thing that for me resigning from the Superwoman committee was building my no muscle building my no muscle learning that building your excuse me y you said building your no my no muscle how to say without the guilt yeah n o I had to build my no muscle I had to learn that I have a right to say no I had to learn that I can choose when to say no I can choose who to say no to because that without the guilt without the guilt but once I took off the Superwoman cape and recognized that's not my job that's not my let me not be trying to out God God saving people I can't save myself from a bag of lace potato chips you put a bag of Laz potato chips in front of me and I can't save myself so why am I trying to save human lives That's My Confession Laz potato chips and we're not being paid to endorse Laz potato chips by away so um yeah so I I couldn't um so I had to learn to say no no and develop that checkpoint inside and sometimes I said no because I I don't want to so so y I love the the you're sharing how you made your personal how you walked through it right how you worked it out uh in your in this in the deps of both of your daughters uh I mean every time I think about it I I just it gives me a moment of pause when you were coaching people like on Yana fix my life and and they were dealing with the imposture syndrome what was some of the first steps you took them through to deal with it well I think it's different for everyone you've got to find out okay what are you an impostor at why do you think you're an impostor because you got to get down to that because sometimes it's just a toxic internal dialogue now that's one part if it's because people said this or because I didn't do that I think one of the most challenging cases I had was a woman who I mean she was debilitated by it she was brilliant but debilitated by feeling like an impostor because she had been sexually abused as a child and told herself that she had participated in it because it was a known person and it happened more than once and when she told nothing was done about it so she learned that what happens to her and her feelings and her needs don't matter so whenever she in the world in her work world if anyone expressed any level of disappointment or upset with her she went into her impostor syndrome see I knew you know I'm not worth this I can't do this and it was all hinged on the fact that she had been sexually molested when she was so she had it coming her internal dialogue created a filter through which she perceived the feedback she was getting from her Universe everybody's going to make mistakes you can't please everybody correct sometimes you'll drop the ball but that doesn't mean that your whole life is worthless now and that you are worthless so it's so it seems to me Anana that one of the what you helped her do was to to come to some kind of awareness of it right to take the time to explore like you said to get to get underneath the hood around you know what is it why am I feeling it when does it happen so this whole notion of self-awareness but it also seemed like she was very smart at reaching out for some help and maybe she didn't know what she needed help with but she reached out one of the things that I remember working with her and with people in the impostor syndrome is to make a distinction between a thought and a feeling people will say I feel like an impostor yeah and I say that's not a feeling a feeling is one word a thought is several strung together so when you say I feel like an impostor that is not a feeling that is a thought now let's get to the root of that thought so that means it's coming to me me from the internal landscape and and it's it's so important to make that distinction because as you noted before and just been part of my experience that you know this impostor syndrome so much of it is is kind of a cognitive thing in the brain right kind of your mindset and often times people can distinguish what they're thinking versus from what they're really feeling so how do you have some separate that what I'm thinking what's upar in my mind versus what I'm feeling because you said thinking is a lot of words but feeling is one give us an example one word I feel sad I feel happy I feel angry I feel disappointed I feel the feelings are one word any time I feel like I let you down that's a thought I feel like I shouldn't be here that's a thought so there's something that is triggered up stirred up implanted at the level of the internal landscape that is feeding these thoughts so the first thing you want to do is make a distinction between what are you thinking and what are you feeling okay so I feel I think I think I'm an impostor and that makes me feel what you're an impostor how do you feel about that wow so so Yana now they've been able to make this distinction between a thought and a and a feeling right then what what do they do next with that well how do you how do you work it out with them on that a feeling is usually triggered by an A Memory there may be a traumatic memory it may be a a programmed memory uh you know a and you have to um investigate the feeling you have to in you got to trace it back to its Origins so that you can find out what's going on underneath there now thought that takes a little more processing okay so if you're a fraud if you're an impostor now what okay and the and the reason you want to investigate the thought is because eventually you'll drop into the feeling it's just the process right you know you're you're an impostor you know so now what yep what's so interesting about what you're saying is that the literature and the studies indicate that for people who have been subjected to bias I mean they could be disabled people they could be lgd lgbtq people they could be people of color they could be people of women that often times it's the it's the ongoing biases that they encounter that begin to shape their thoughts about being an impostor you know maybe it didn't even necessarily maybe they didn't even necessarily start out like like that but they get in a workplace environment and people say you know you're here because of inir affirmative action you're really not that good affirmative action got you here and it's these repetitive bias kind of comments that they are hearing and then they start thinking well maybe that's true and I guess from your point of view that begins to generate some feelings but right then in that point of you saying that they need to get really focused on what is the source of some of this kind a head head spacer in around being an impostor yeah and and okay so the microaggressions that give you those thoughts and feelings but you're here now right you're here okay you're here and so now what are you gonna do what you you're an impostor you still pay taxes you still pay to get on the bus you still got to pay the toll to go across the bridge you are an impostor so now what you gonna do I mean you know for me I'm just going there you're an impostor now what they didn't know it so that makes you smarter than them anyhow okay so you reality up in here you may you okay even if you got here by affirmative action you'll still get a check you can gash you know sometimes you have to take an internal you've got to be really ruthless and Vigilant about how you engage and entertain those things that are coming at you the other big thing Vanessa huge as it relates to the impostor syndrome is comparing yourself to other people comparing yourself to other people is a act of violence against yourself and I remember when I first started doing this work and I had been doing it about 12 15 years and then Along Came Maryanne Williamson who was filling up centers and filling up the town hall and I was like oh man I'm not filling up centers like that I want to be like Maryann Williamson you know but comparing yourself to others is an act of violence against yourself will undermine diminish your value your worth your esteem your respect for yourself well I tell you it seemed like we just started talking a couple of minutes ago about this whole send them and there were several things you said I want to just kind of touch base before we close out today and one is just even creating a self-awareness that you're struggling with something that is more than just a every now and then question or thought but it's it's really impacting how you choose to lose live your life and then you talked about you know making a a a separation between what you're thinking and what you're feeling and the importance of that and then you talked about really identifying and connecting with what what your selfworth is identifying you know what are those things or what are people saying and doing that are coming against you and how do you step back and push back on that push back on those things that aren't aren't true and then not comparing yourself to others because that's an act of self-violence or that's the act of violence against yourself I just I just feel that those points were just so powerful and will be so helpful to our audience so on behalf of our working it out crew I wanted again to thank you VanZant the Renown y VanZant and I'll close with my typical saying have a be happy week and let's work it out together [Music] byebye out got you stressing we working it out we working it out working it out working it [Music] out h

Channel: Workin' It Out Podcast

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Id: 7g3t-KM34rA

Length: 26min 5sec (1565 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 04 2024