For the first time ever, a former US president is now a convicted felon, found guilty by a jury of his peers of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. Some questions that some of you might have. Can a convicted felon run for president? The answer is yes. Can a convicted felon serve as president? The answer is yes. Can a convicted felon vote for himself or herself for president? The answer is it depends on the state. But in Florida, where Donald Trump lives, former President Trump lives, they tend to defer to the state where the conviction takes place. And that is New York. And felons are able to vote in New York if they are out of prison. So those are some of the questions. Now. I have questions. And Karen, let me start with you, which is what exactly is going on in that courthouse right now? We know sentencing is going to be July 11th, which just happens to be within a week of the beginning of the Republican National Convention. For those keeping tabs on the overlap of this case and the political realities in which we live. What are they doing right now or the jurors getting out of Dodge there? I saw something on the screen saying something about no bail. And I know that this meant like they weren't even thinking about requiring the president to to need to put up bail or anything like that. He is that he is a free man, of course. But tell us about what's going on behind the scenes. So there's a couple of things going on behind the scenes right now. First of all, security. There's a whole security protocol that is making sure that everybody, including Trump supporters, are behaving and including people who wanted the former president convicted, that there is going to be calm and that everybody is okay. So that's going on. The jurors are also being protected and their anonymity is being protected. So they're going to continue to be driven back home, taken back to the place that they essentially came from, so that they can remain anonymous as long as they choose to. One more thing, just to also keep in mind, the gag order is still in effect, which I thought was really interesting that Todd Blanch didn't request Judge Mershon, now that the trial is over, now that the jury is excused, that the gag order be lifted, which means just to remind people sorry to interrupt, but the judge issued a gag order saying that Donald Trump could not talk publicly about the jurors or the witnesses or members of the family of the judge or the prosecution team. But the judge and the prosecution team themselves were completely fair game rhetorically. Go ahead. I'm sorry. And then in the DA's office I just saw they're about to hold a press conference at 630. I think Alvin Bragg is going to speak. So they're preparing what they're going to say. And how they're going to address this. And they are going to, I guess, tell everybody what this means on behalf of the Manhattan DA's office. So I think everybody is doing their various their various jobs right now and collecting themselves because this is such a big deal. And I also think the DA's office is going to start thinking about sentencing. Yeah. Let's talk and think about and let's let's talk about that now with this side of the table, because I believe that the judge gets to decide the sentencing, not the jury. Is that that is that standard? Is that how it always sometimes the jury never decides incidents like this? No, that's not going to happen. And remember, we know that, in fact, remember what happened during the closing arguments and Todd Blanch made the reference to prison. The judge was quite clear. And even giving a curative instructed the jury to say, your job is a fact finder. My job is to actually sentence and the sentence itself could be a maximum for all charges of 20 years, up to four for each count, but the maximum of 20 years. This is a first time nonviolent criminal offender, though. And so the likelihood of him serving hard prison time is pretty slim, but it does not remove the stain of now being a 34 time felon. And to your point about being a felon and being from Florida, there is a great irony in this incident that he would, if he were in Florida, be asking people to vote for him and he could not do that. And because it's a crime involving dishonesty and fraud is considered under the umbrella of moral turpitude, which means that even after you complete your entire sentence, you still have to appeal to the governor of that state if he is convicted in Florida, in Florida. And so this irony of the governor of Tennessee even having to weigh in prospectively. So let me let me ask Ellie, how does this work, the sentencing? Because first of all, obviously Donald Trump, a former President Trump and his legal team, are going to appeal. And we've discussed already the grounds for appeal and the arguments that he might bring up for appeal. And there are many beyond that, though, he can't appeal until the sentencing. Right. Right. And how is that decision made? Does Judge Mershon just go to his chambers and emerge like Moses with tablets, or are there arguments that are going to be made by Donald Trump's attorneys, by the prosecutor? There will be intensive investigation and arguments between now public by public one, Yeah, we will get public filings where the D.A. will ask the judge to impose whatever sentence they think is appropriate. Donald Trump's team will put in their request. Certainly for a non incarceration non prison sentence. And let me address the question that I imagine is on a lot of people's minds, which is how likely is it that Judge Mershon imposes a sentence of prison? Now, this is a Class E felony in New York State. You have Class A is the most serious felony class Is that we just just to interrupt you for one second. We see the former president there and his team getting into their motorcade of SUVs to return to his home on this unbelievably historic day. No doubt he is angry. No doubt he is sad to a degree. Dejected, Chris Cornell talked about a moment where he reached over and shook his son's hand. His son patted him on the back. Whether you think this was the right verdict or not, it is one that weighs heavily on any defendant's emotions. And this is a former president of the United States. I'm sorry, Ali, go ahead. If we look at the universe of class e convictions in New York State, and several good researchers out there have done sort of surveys over the last year or so. Generally, the estimates are that somewhere between 70 and 90% of class in New York convictions result in non prison sentences. So that would be some combination of probation fines, perhaps community service. But the converse of that 10 to 30 ish percent do result in prison time. And this will be entirely up to Judge Mershon. Is there a difference? Are the 10 to 30% that are sentenced to prison for class E felonies? Individuals with worse lawyers are there, individuals with with with with. We have previous criminal records like D.A.s. I mean, is is there any sort of delineation? So I'll give you what the relevant factors usually would be in a case like this. First of all, how big was the offense? How major was the offense? It's a big difference to steal $5 million versus $100,000. Was this person a first time offender or are they on their second, third, fourth conviction? Yeah. Quality of lawyering can absolutely play into it. But this is the most difficult thing that judges do. I mean, you talk to any judge, they will tell you the hardest part of their job is imposing a sentence. And one other thing I just want to make very clear, if Donald Trump does get a prison sentence imposed on him on July 11th, odds are very, very high. He will not have to start serving that sentence right away because in a case like this, he's very likely to get what we call bail pending appeal, meaning he will almost certainly not have to begin serving any sentence until after all of his appeals are done. That would certainly take us out past the. So on November, he could be out on bail? Yes, he will in all likelihood in November be he will have been sentenced in July and the sentence will not actually be imposed until his appeals are done, which will take us well into 2014. So so the and so the appeal process, just to be clear here. So the appeal process, which will kick in the very moment after sentencing. Right. I mean, the Trump legal team already has those briefs ready to go. They're going to appeal every single one, every single avenue they can all the way up to the US Supreme Court. I would imagine that will take months and months, if not years, potentially. So Donald Trump has one appeal as of right to the mid level. New York court, the Court of Appeals for New York, which is the middle level, if he loses there, he can ask the top court in the state of New York, which is actually called the Court of Appeals. But no one gets confusing. He can ask them to take the case. They don't have to, though. It's the same as our US Supreme Court. They can take it if they want to. They don't have to. And then from there he can try to get it up. We're watching, by the way, just the the motorcade of the former president leaving the courthouse on its way to Trump Tower. Several cars. You see supporters of the former president with Trump flags in the streets. And it is an area where there is a lot of security. So there does not appear to be a huge crowd for blocks and blocks and blocks. It's also a large, tall, you know, a capital D. Democratic city, by and large, Anderson. Jake, thanks very much.
