Is the FAA is going to Take YOUR Pilot License???

[Music] oh snap you just did a go-around guess you lost your license oh wait you just took off from that airport guess you lost your license say bye-bye to it so well there goes the fa with my license now what am i talking about here well some new rules that just came into effect apparently or new present that was just set not new rules because rules within the fa actually go to a comment period and we get to weigh in on it as citizens of the united states kind of like how that whole democracy thing works but no what just happened actually big news flash if you haven't heard about it is that now there's precedent set from an administrative law judge from an faa case that says you cannot go around if you've basically been within 500 feet of a vehicle vessel or person or object otherwise you'll be violated with that regulation you're going to have to land your aircraft because if you don't land your aircraft then we're gonna assume you never had an intent to land there therefore you can't do that oh and also they said that a runway is really just what they decided to be because the fa doesn't define a runway in 14 cfr 1.1 they define what an airport is but not a runway they just go ahead and said that if there's not any sort of runway markings or a windsock or runway lights then you must not be landing in a suitable area and therefore you can't say that you're taking off or landing if you're within 500 feet of a vehicle vessel person or object therefore you're in violation of 9119 and also 9113 reckless and careless operation of an aircraft therefore no more license for you we're going to go ahead and suspend it now where is all this coming from in case you guys haven't heard trent palmer very big guy on youtube really cool videos on his channel go ahead and check him out link's in the description below but he had his license suspended for 60 days why because his buddy called him up and said hey i fly rc airplanes in my backyard i've got this little strip there that i fly rc airplanes off of you've got an airplane that it's basically the same size as my rc airplanes it can take off from landing about the same distance why don't you go ahead and come in and land here and not making fun of the kid fox i've got a little rans here as well so we fly little airplanes and yeah they take off and land in surprisingly short distances so what do we do when a landowner gives us permission to land on their property well we're legally allowed to land there as president sat by the faa so trent went ahead and flew over there and in accordance with the faa off airports op or off airport ops guide cool little uh cover page there with the faa logo he was in compliance with page three where they recommend doing a high level intermediate and low level pass to inspect the surface which you intend to land on prior to landing on it here at the flight mike alpha pilot lodge in big lake alaska we do a lot of off airport training and we teach a five-step process to our students prior to landing in any off airport location that typically results in them making three five sometimes even 10 passes i've made over 15 passes before over an area in the direction i intend to land sometimes each direction inspecting it before actually landing there making sure it's safe to do so that's good aeronautical decision making according to the administrator in their publications and that's what we teach here now trent went ahead and made a low pass over his buddy's property where he was going to land on that little area where he was flying rc airplanes out of and said you know what doesn't i'm not feeling today you know runway conditions you know weather conditions wind whatever it is i'm not going to land here i'm going to make a good decision good aeronautical decision making and go around and head on his way and choose not to land there now they violated him with 9119 which that regulation spelled out for us right here except when necessary for takeoff or landing no person may operate an aircraft below the falling altitudes anywhere you got to be high enough that if the engine quits you can glide somewhere safely and then if you're over a congested area you need to be a thousand feet above the highest obstacle in that area within 2000 feet of your aircraft but if you're working just area there's a good chance you'll have to be even higher than that because you have to be able to glide to a safe area to land see trent was in a non-congested area very common misconception when students come to me for flight reviews they say yellow congested on the sectional chart not yellow not congested well it kind of works this way the faa said before that just because it's not yellow doesn't mean it's not congested if you have a whole bunch of houses parked in real tight or maybe there's a big gathering like burning man that becomes a pretty congested area all right out in the desert even though it's not yellow so common sense applies but we can definitely say looking at a satellite photo here of the area trent was landing in this is kind of his neighborhood in that area that it looks pretty uncongested to me looks like you could probably drop a kid fox maybe even a 747 in there and get it stopped without hitting any houses although you probably break the landing gear off the 747. but saying it's not congested right a kid fox is like a kite with a rotax strapped to the front of it it lands pretty darn short just for reference down in the corner there on this sat photo you can see that little strip that's 500 feet long or a little greater than that i'm pretty sure trent would be able to take off and land well and weigh less than half of that in his airplane so i'd say if his engine quit even if he was only 100 200 feet over the ground he's probably in a good place to make a turn away from a home or any sort of property and not do damage to anything out there or himself or his aircraft so i'd say he was in compliance with it because it was necessary for him to be that low and that close to the house when he was attempting to land the problem is the fa inspector was very misguided ill-informed and ignorant and read this to be well that wasn't a necessary landing well what's a necessary landing it's not defined anywhere because it's what the pilot says it is there's no such thing as a necessary landing except like emergency landings when you run out of gas when the engine's on fire when you have to actually physically land the aircraft right now that becomes necessary right no one could argue that anybody could argue that any other landing when there's fuel on board and the aircraft's operating okay that it wasn't necessary for you to land there you could have gone somewhere else so that's very arbitrary we can't have the faa arbitrarily deciding when we can and cannot take off or land our aircraft when we decide to take off for land it's necessary because we decided it to be now an important distinction here is when are you actually breaking this regulation because i also see students come in and sometimes with not the best attitude and they come in they tell me oh it doesn't matter if you fly low or if you buzz over your buddy's house just tell me you're trying to land there if it's for takeoff or landing they can't violate you well that's not the spirit of the rule but that's not at all what trent was doing he was actually attempting to land there and it was a very non-congested area buzzing someone's house is not safe and you shouldn't be doing it now when can they actually violate you with this and when should they good example this is in talkeetna alaska we have this really cool runway there the village strip right in the heart of downtown you can land your airplane and walk to downtown within 30 seconds when you land there landing to the south you cross over the fairview bar very low and way less than 500 feet above it to make a safe landing there when you take off to the north you're going to fly above the fairview bar probably within 500 feet of it unless you're able to get high enough to make a turn quickly depends on the performance of your aircraft in my little 85 horse 140 i'm going to be buzzing that building pretty close but i would back taxi the full length to be as high as i possibly could be before crossing any sort of buildings i want as much altitude as i possibly can have if the engine did quit a not so friendly gentleman decided to take his super cub and consistently take off and buzz the fairview bar and even when told not to do so by the airport manager and by the faa he said well basically screw you i'm taking off i can do whatever i want it says so right here and they said after he did this many times and kept disobeying and just perpetually was being unsafe they said you know what you taking off two-thirds of the way or three-quarters of the way down the runway and then buzzing the bar and barely scraping the roof it's not necessary for you to do that you could have back-taxied the runway was usable it wasn't rutted out or muddy so you could have used the whole thing and been a lot higher therefore you're in violation 91-119 that's a very appropriate violation to error is human humans make mistakes and sometimes do the wrong thing not all pilots are perfect and some pilots need to be violated by the faa trent isn't one of them especially in this case now to error is human and the fa is made up of a lot of humans the faa those humans those few humans that were involved in this case errored greatly the faa has one main purpose in its existence and that is to ensure safety in the nasp the national airspace system they need to ensure the safety of the flying public on airlines the airliners the pilots themselves and the airlines that's what they really care about and i think they'll openly tell you because the millions of people that use that system that's where most of their focus is and they also care about ga pilots passengers and all the people that live underneath all these airplanes flying around in the federal airspace which they regulate so trent informed the faa inspector hey i was making an inspection pass in accordance with faa guidance and i felt that it was unsafe to land there so i went around therefore i didn't break a rule and he said you know what we're going to refer this to legal counsel and the fa attorney very misguided ill-informed ignorant person obviously in this particular subject matter said i don't think your landing was necessary they don't get to choose if it was necessary or not they don't get to elect when we land and when we don't or where we land and where we don't if you have permission from the landowner it's a well-established precedent that you can land your aircraft there or on a public use airport or on public land that is open to aircraft or other vehicles of that nature so blm land national parks in alaska state land in alaska below the tideline a lot of land is open to aircraft in the lower 48 and in alaska and of course all our public use airports so does the fa define what an airport even is well this administrative law judge tried to say once it actually went to trial basically not a trial with the jury of your peers like you would normally have in a civil case when there's more than 20 in question you get to have a trial by jury of your peers as guaranteed by the bill of rights the constitution of our country um no that wasn't the case here they get to take something far greater than 20 in value from trent uh basically by just one guy who works with the faa the administrative law judge to say yeah you know what no i don't think that was a necessary landing and because you didn't land there i don't think you had the intent to land there because you went around and you didn't actually physically land your airplane there now had you landed there i it might feel differently but you didn't and trent's like well yeah because it was unsafe so well you didn't land there so i don't think he had the intent to therefore you violated 91 119 and furthermore it's not a safe place to land in the first place because there's no wind sock there's no runway lights there's no runway markers nowhere in anywhere 14 cfr or any part of the federal regulation system any of the code of federal regulations any of the laws in the united states anywhere does it say a runway needs to have a windsock or runway lights or runway markings the vast majority of faa airports in this country that receive faa funding don't have lights some of them barely have wind stocks this is an fa airport that has received fa funding it looks terrible to me like that's you call that a windsock okay there's definitely no lights there and there's no markings it's just dirt so is that an acceptable place to land when i land there sometimes i get close closer than 500 feet to persons vehicles vessels or objects if i go to land there and i do a low pass to check it out make sure it's not too rutted up and there's no moose on the runway and there's no obstacles and i figure out oh my gosh look somebody dropped some debris off their truck or off their four-wheeler when they went racing through here i don't want to land here and then there was a four-wheeler parked off on the side of the runway guess what i just broke a regulation apparently according to this law judge so let's ask ourselves is the faa upholding their charter or at least these few individuals within the fa their charter of safety in the nas one simple thing that's all they exist for do they exist to enforce regulations sure because that's how they promote and insurer safety in the nas now is that what they're doing here so now i have to land there otherwise i violated 9119 even though i don't feel it's safe so you've taken away my authority as pilot and command to exercise my privilege to go around and the safe decision the safe option what i should be doing to actually go around and choose not to land there you've taken that away from me so i'd say that's incredibly detrimental to safety in the nas it's incredibly opposite of what thousands of faa employees have been working towards thousands of faa employees go to work every day to promote safety in the nas to make it safer every day every step of the day for the past however many decades of work and just within one ruling one simple case they managed to undo years of that they've also sewn the seeds of distrust between the administrator and the pilot group which is another detriment to safety in the nas because how can we trust these faa employees when they are not interpreting the regulations appropriately how can i trust the faa employees when i have experiences like being in oregon in bend oregon and someone from the portland oregon fisdo is called a safety inspector and that safety inspector tells the person calling them oh yeah it's illegal to operate a drone within five miles of an airport well it happened to be that i was staying next to a sheriff's deputy because the police were called when i was operating a drone at an airport in class g air space in accordance with 14 cfr 107 and advisory stickler 107-2 and that faa employee safety inspector told the sheriff's deputy it's illegal to fly a drone within five miles of an airport he's breaking the law yeah i had a lot of fun that day not really and that is inappropriate for the faa inspector to say something like that to misinterpret the rules and there needs to be accountability when they make mistakes to errors human everyone makes mistakes but there must be accountability and some sort of corrective action taken to ensure it doesn't happen again this is why i'm really glad this happened to trent not that i would wish this on anybody dealing with the fa is terrible and trent's a good person and shouldn't be having to deal with this i'm glad this happened to trent because we're all talking about it now because trent has a huge following of half million people and the sad thing is trent isn't the first one that this has happened to that the rules have been misapplied to trent is just the first one we're hearing about because he has a big following if this had happened to somebody else you would never know their name they don't have a youtube channel the people that have had this happen to them before don't have a youtube channel or an instagram or a facebook page or all these followers they didn't have deep pockets to hire attorneys and some of them may have been in an airline track career or trying to get hired somewhere and a 60-day suspension on their record could ruin their career ruin their livelihood and make their family starve so is that right i would say no is that promoting safety in the nas i would say definitely not i would like to see a couple things come out of this and i would encourage you if you haven't already to watch trent's video the links in the description below to get the full backstory on it but there's a few things at stake here for all of us besides just trent they are our ability to exercise our pilot and command authority to go around and not land somewhere where we feel it is unsafe our authority to determine when we want to take off and when we want to land and where we want to do so when it's legal to do so when we have permission from the landowner or we're going to be landing on federal land that's open to us that may not be an established airport they actually do define what an airport is the faa does in their regulations an airport means an area of land or water that is used or intended to be used for the landing and takeoff of aircraft and includes its buildings and facilities if any they don't define what a runway is so if you intend to land somewhere i guess it's an airport iko does define what a runway is they say it's simply a rectangular piece of ground that you're planning to operate aircraft on or that's been designated to operate aircraft on if that land owner trent's buddy said you can land here he designated that piece of land for him to land on and it's open to him and he's following the rules so what i would like to see come of this and what's at stake our ability to exercise our privileges to go around our ability to land where we so choose to at a time when we so choose to when we decide it's necessary to take off her land and our ability to utilize public land or any land to land on beaches places that we are able to access gravel bars our backyard here in alaska i don't have runway markings on my runway in my backyard i just land there and it's actually for the longest time was not an faa airport and now it's a private registered faa airport does that make a difference in this alj's mind but more importantly we can't fix the wrongs that have been done to all the people we don't know about from years past that we know the faa has taken advantage of in these cases i've experienced it personally in that case in oregon and other places in the country when the fa has made mistakes and misapplied the rules i would like to see change within the faa and it's going to have to come from us the people you the person watching this video aopa and ea can do a lot and i'm talking to you aopa ea raf the rest of the alphabet right now you have where i live you know me i'm a member with you guys all those organizations and i would like to see an email in my inbox from you soon that has the contact information for my congressman and my senators and also their not just their email but their phone numbers perhaps their mailing address and a nice form letter that i can sign my name to and email them a letter i could go ahead and print out sign my name to and mail them and also some talking points if i call them and leave a voice message to make my voice heard because although the lobbyists and the people working on the government affairs side of aopa ea and all those other agencies are great four hundred thousand five hundred thousand voices are a lot stronger than just those organizations and we need to make our voice heard that's how a representative democracy works that's how the fa exists in the first place that's how all these rules exist in the first place we chose them we the people and it's not okay for an individual within that agency that our representatives delegated authority to the faa it's not okay for an individual or just a small group of individuals to apply the rules as they see fit and exercise their opinions and interject their opinions into law that's not how our country works and it's a much bigger issue than just trent or aviation in general anytime a government official oversteps we have to hold them to account and we have to make sure we have systems and checks and balances in place that work to make sure it doesn't happen in the future i would like to hear your ideas in the comments below both on if you think trent was doing anything wrong because i don't think he was and also what system could we come up with how could we hold these fa employees to account what can i do about the guy who made my life a nightmare with the bend police because he opened his mouth and said i'm an faa inspector i'm an agent of the faa i have a badge and that guy's breaking the law and he was dead wrong what can we do about that how can we prevent it from happening in the future how can we hold these people accountable in trent's case and if they're really ignorant and misapplying the regulations how can we remove them from their positions how can we give them remedial training just as they would do to a pilot and 709 them and see if they actually should hold the position that they do how can we ensure that this doesn't happen to other people who don't have youtube channels don't have deep pockets for attorneys didn't sign up for the aopa legal plan which is a good thing to sign up for by the way i can say that the aopa legal plan won't help you in every case i've reached out to them twice now being a member of it and both times they denied me saying that both cases were outside the scope of the legal plan yet i do still recommend it for anyone out there and i would check it out even though it didn't help me twice still a little frustrated over that anyways back to this there's a three-step process here to ensure that we can make real progress here have those organizations aopa eaa raf so on put us in contact help us with our busy lives give us the contact information for the representatives we need to talk to give us the talking points so we can sound intelligent and speak specifically to the rules and regulations that need to be enforced or rewritten or enacted to hold the fa accountable and ensure they cannot overreach and affect us as law-abiding citizens and then take the action contact those representatives third exercise your rights because if we don't if all of us don't land off airport or back country aviation slows down in any way the less we do it the easier it is for someone to erase it from history if none of us landed off airport for an entire year and we only stuck to paved runways and then one person did it a year later they would say that's ridiculous because no one's doing that that's not normal that's not reasonable and what always is the presiding law in our country in any case criminal or simple is the reasonable man metric and in this case it's the reasonable pilot metric what would a reasonable pilot do in a reasonable pilot when landing somewhere that they had permission to land or attempting to would make a low pass first and then if they decide it's not safe they would add power and go around and go on their way or perhaps keep trying to see if there's a different approach that they could use but they would exercise their privilege and their good aeronautical decision making and not force themselves to land somewhere that they know is unsafe just because they made that first pass it's our freedom to fly we have to protect it we have to stand up and use it and i do want to make something very clear there's individuals within the faa that are misapplying the rules there's individuals within the faa that i've had negative interactions with in florida texas oregon pennsylvania but by and large my interactions with hundreds of people across the fa over the years have been incredibly positive and of the thousands of employees in the faa i'd say many thousands of them 99.9 are working diligently every single day to ensure safety in the nas i can give you a good example of it when it works because all my interactions with the faa here in alaska have been incredibly positive we have a 135 certificate that we do charter flying on here as part of our company here at flight mic alpha so we offer charter flights with a 206. we were putting a 206 aircraft through conformity the fa came out to inspect it rfa inspectors said i think that that instrument isn't right or needs to be replaced i said i disagree he said i'm going to go home and do research and i will get back to you and if i can prove that you actually do need a tachometer with tack time on it not just a regular pma tachometer that shows rpm but something that shows tack time if i can prove that you need that then you'll have to replace that if i can't prove it to you on paper then we error on your side you say you don't need it so then you don't need it and that's how it should be and he went home and did his research and we were able to have a constructive conversation to both work together to comply with the regulations the way they are written not the way i thought they ought to be the way he thought they ought to be the way they were written by all of us collectively and that's what we complied with on our 135 that's what i comply with every day and that's what 99 of the faa enforces on a daily basis these few cases can be incredibly detrimental though to safety in the nas incredibly detrimental to people's livelihoods and those individuals need to be addressed and held to account we have to do that and i'm asking for your help to do it aopa eaa and you the person watching this video not just to help trent to help all of us protect our freedom in aviation and outside of aviation if you don't use it you will lose it and i don't want to lose it and together we won't now to the faa if you're looking for any evidence to use against me please enjoy the next few minutes of go arounds where i did not feel safe landing in a particular situation for a number of reasons if you cannot fly every day fly at my calf.com we'll see you guys in the next one [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] you

Channel: FLY8MA.com Flight Training

Views: 80,823

Keywords: aviation, private pilot, pilot, trent palmer, trent palmer suspension, suspended, license suspended, pilot license, faa, faa violation, lost pilot license, lost license, violated, faa investigation, suspension, bush pilot, freedom fox, aopa

Id: 8o3PFQ5d3vU

Length: 27min 22sec (1642 seconds)

Published: Fri May 06 2022