Hugh Hefner CLASHES With Feminists Over Playboy Models | The Dick Cavett Show

I would like to introduce now two ladies who I'm sure well I know everyone is aware by this time that there are a lot of women in this country who feel that they're being pushed around and they've become very vocal they call themselves the women's liberation movement and we have two representatives from that movement here tonight they're both writers Susan Brian Miller had a piece in The Sunday Times a couple of weeks back and Sally Kempton is the other lady and I would like you to meet those two ladies maybe we can find out what the women are all upset about will you welcome them please [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] are you Sally yes you've brought cigarettes could I not light it for you no okay just a little joke you see is it true that you travel in pairs for some reason or is this just a there there is a political reason why we came tonight together a political reason oh you want to leap right into that sure the women's liberation movement says sisterhood is powerful and that means women together and the women's liberation is hot copy this season and write every magazine has an article all the shows kind of want to see a women's liberationists in the flesh and our movement doesn't want to create stars or celebrities so when we get an offer we feel we should come you know in a pair oh well stars are created in pairs I mean that right but also we want to be cross top teams I mean we wanna you know like answer questions for each other and support each other generally okay just what do you think men are doing wrong very in charge yeah and they oppress us as women they won't let us be and Hugh Hefner is my enemy oh he's half your enemy we really set you up tonight we've been watching in the order I think we have you know more than a few I'm sure you must have something true then there are sisters we didn't bring them it's just that women's liberation you didn't stack the audience if you'll pardon the expression what them now you two are successful right your Sally Kempton are you your successful writers have your careers been stood in the way of by your sex well Susan should really answer that question because mine hasn't for various reasons except psychologically which is another issue that's good you came Tuesday and Affairs has I never really anything till I was 28 years old and I never dared to allow myself to believe that I had ambition I thought I should be a writer I worked at Esquire magazine for two years as a researcher I worked at Newsweek magazine for two years as a researcher and I'd go in periodically to my bosses and say I'd like to do more I'd like to ride and they'd say oh you got your hair set today isn't that lovely you know and they never took my ambition seriously but I was 28 I read Betty Friedan's book The Feminine Mystique and I saw myself on every page and I knew what she was talking about and I knew that I really wanted to do something and for me it was writing so I started to do it you know I've had some small success I that's all well you know we're really not successful I mean we're just doing something that ordinary guys do all the time there's nothing exceptional about being a freelance writer or a reporter yeah all kinds of mediocre people do that it's just because we're women somehow you know it seems very special well what is it you want done if you could wave a magic one now that would release you from the yoke of this oppression that you all talked about what would do it quickly is it a whole change of attitude in the Western world yeah it's a change in education really women are brought up in really hundreds of ways I've been for your time there there are two and three years old to be cute and coquettish and intellectually unserious to seduce people instead of saying what they want I think it would be what we would really like is is for there to be no necessity for seduction in the world at all and particularly for there to be no necessity for women to seduce men to get what they want well now there's some of you and I find it hard to not say some of you because there are different voices speaking for the women's liberation movement who reject man altogether they won't sit in the same room with a man if they can avoid it are you two of those ladies and if so what are we doing here I think we're probably more optimistic about the ability of men to change we think there's going to be a struggle and we don't think that men are going to give up their power and privilege easily because they benefit from oppressing women they really do Hefner has built an empire based on oppressing women [Music] [Applause] one lady that we spoke to as a member of your movement would not come on tonight with with you mr. Hefner because she said it would be like putting Stokely Carmichael on with George Wallace I don't know which of you is flattered by that but feels like Wallace I and that's I don't know which of you is which but have you had this reaction before tonight yes I think Playboy's been singled out along with you know the Miss America contest and some other things as you know as the extreme example of what the new feminists feel is the wrong image for women but you know having been described as an oppressor can I respond just a little bit all right I'm more in sympathy than perhaps you know the girls realize with I'm sorry then the ladies realize I use girls referring to women of all ages never I'd always felt it was always fellows complimentary but never thought you'd have your mouth washed out for saying girls no that's right I'd never thought of girl as being but I think there's I think there's validity to it I think there's validity I'd never thought of as being you know condescending image of women at an Arrested Development well let me let me respond let me respond for just a moment and then we'll say that it is allure magazine have the opposite of Arrested Development I hear no first of all first of all the girls in the magazine are admittedly young the average age of our male reader is 26 so there's a certain logic to that but in terms of my attitude on the whole the feminist movement as it exists now I think that women over generations and centuries have indeed been oppressed I think there's no question about it it's only a relatively short time that they've had the boat and you know a short time before that they were allowed to own property I think there are still many areas in society in which they do not have equal job opportunity one of the thrusts of the feminist movement is for a better abortion laws I think playboy has done as much as any mass media in terms of trying to accomplish exactly that but I take issue and separate in this one rather fundamental area there is usually a parallel made between female emancipation and racial equality and I don't think it's the same thing even though the feminist movement grew out of the civil rights the current feminist movement grew out of the civil rights business for this reason I don't think that the color of a man's skin is any more important than whether he is blonde or brunette blue eyed or brown eyed I think whether you are male or female is the beginning of who you are as a human being I think it's important and I think that it is important emotionally as well as physically I think there are differences and I think there should continue to be differences I think what we want to try to do is find roles in society that are not as limiting as they've been in the past and they have been far more limiting for women than men admittedly but very limiting for both in the past I hope we're gonna evolve into a society in which the broadest spectrum of opportunities exist for both men and women but I think that to begin with we are you know I like very much Mary cauldrons in a recent Playboy interview in which he said you know she's less interested in women right than than human rights I think that it's like the response the role that you have selected for women is degrading to women because you choose to see women as sex objects not as full human beings Rob Liefeld on writing the day the day that you are willing to come out here with a cotton tail attached to your rear end [Applause] [Music] [Applause] he hasn't accusation of women a condition of employment in the playboy clubs around the country they have to get into these ridiculous costumes which deny their humanity and their femininity you make them look like animals yes women are at bunnies they're not Ravis they're human beings all right the Playboy symbol the rabbit of course and the reason for having bunnies in the clubs the symbol was originally a male figure and it was picked quite innocently and simply some 16 years ago because we felt it was a rather playful and sexual symbol the fact that the girls are dressed in costumes is no more complex than that and the girls obviously don't find it degrading or we wouldn't have as many working with us one minute in addition I know I know that there are great many women who feel as you do but they're also one out of every four readers of the magazine today is is females so they're obviously a lot of other women - in terms of degrading and wearing a bunny tail the parallel that's usually made is you know why don't you create a you know a women's magazine with nude men because there's some kind of a notion that you know taking the clothes off is a degrading concept hey Helen Gurley Brown wants to put a mission in college what do you think of that in her as the female Hef uh well I'm sort of no no she's not I mean Helen Gurley Brown at least was the first person who ever said that it was okay for a woman to be single up into her 40s and 50s you know one has to give her that but she runs who she runs a magazine for women who want to get you want to know how to get men just as mr. Hefner runs a magazine for men who want to seduce women and we didn't think that's a proper you know that's that's a sole relationship between men and women or or even certainly not the most important one and maybe that's the reason that that all these things about male incidents and stuff like that that you and dr. May were talking about earlier has been going on I wonder we I have a relationship with somebody why do you have to form a big thing I mean some guys you have coming relationships with some you don't I mean some of them are great some art some of them look at you as a sex object fine see the ones that like to talk to you go to bed with you and talk to you you do both of those things the ones who like to make music and talk to you and go to bed with you and write or whatever you do draw you do all those things I mean I don't I don't see where the problem is it's just maybe because I don't see what you're talking about yet but I don't see ya boys we'll be back in a moment dr. May you've been very quiet and patient I've been thinking and listening I very much agree with most of what you've been saying and I do think that playboy has treated women as an accessory like the tie or the shirt or whatever one wears now that's what I was trying to say a little while ago now and it's not just that this is happening in the modern period mr. Hefner in the Middle Ages women are terrifically powerful and of aquitaine and these Queens led armies and 71 conquered another land and married again this is a period of women's power now agreeing with most of what you say let me put in one qualification that I think the difference between men and women ought to be capitalized on and not swept under the rug for example the we are men and you are women and the best identity when I work with the patient it sees a woman I have to get her over all these subdued docile feelings I mean it doesn't make a human being but also what'd you say I said you are a rare psychiatrist well I hope so but know there are very many strict fraud ends who tell their women patients that they're not accepting their female roles they can only find salvation I don't think 40 years but there's been longer than I've been practicing but look let me put in one point it's the old French idea vive la différence I think what you ought to do is not try to be the same as man after all I don't think most of us have done a very good job with their lives but you ought to try to affirm your well what you are is women and I think the mistake of the women's liberation movement is where they want to be just the same as man which I'm sure you don't but we and we they throw out the baby with the bathwater which is the the differences that are in the personality of each and they well I still believe in vive la différence not at all because the difference makes anybody superior to anybody else but because life is tremendously more interesting if there are two sexes in it is either of you ladies married here you are now some of you are really against marriage completely yeah I think most of us feel that the marriage laws are very discriminatory against women except in California with alimony available what would you accept alimony if you were divorced no you wouldn't but I would I would I would think that a woman who spent her whole life being a housewife and mother should I think that in such cases alimony is really the price that men pay for women's oppression how do you explain the Margaret chase Smith as Smith's and the Helen Gurley Brown xand the best meyerson's and somehow she always allows a few to get through yeah they're always loopholes just because if there were a conspiracy this and let's let these view through and yes but not a conscious one you don't think that I go around consciously oppressing what I don't know if you do I don't think so watching your show you know I really wouldn't think you seem to like intelligent women and you never seem to be afraid to have strong women on your show I mean and you've had marvelous intellectual discussions with Beverly Sills shirley Chisholm but that's because I mean like to be dominated [Music] say that again that louder right you're confident of your masculinity I want to get that asset well here it G we need another show on this I'm afraid we have opened so many cans of worms here I wish we could get to them that isn't aimed at any of my guests this turned into a roast Hefner evening I'm sorry but [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] you

Channel: The Dick Cavett Show

Views: 1,352,204

Keywords: 1970s Television, Cultural Impact, Empowerment Discussions, Empowerment Movements, Equality Discussions, Female Empowerment, Feminist Movement, Gender Equality, Gender Equality Debates, Hugh Hefner, Playboy Legacy, Playboy Models, Sexism Debate, Sexual Freedom, Sexual Politics, Sexuality in Media, Social Change Efforts, Social Commentary, The Dick Cavett Show, Women Empowerment, Women's Movement

Id: 5BXALFRMpCw

Length: 16min 19sec (979 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 28 2020