How to Date - Ben Stuart

well one time when I was in college some buddies of mine and I decided to spend Spring Break in San Miguel de Allende little town about an hour and a half north of Mexico City and so we drove down to Nuevo Laredo on the texas-mexico border jumped on a bus that drove through the night and we woke up and this little artist colony and I remember we checked into our hotel and that night we got up on the roof of our hotel and it connected to la Petaquilla this massive neo gothic cathedral that dominated the skyline in the center of the city and so I'll never forget sitting on that rooftop of this gorgeous church listening to there was a men's choir downstairs that was singing hymns in Latin and as they began to sing these beautiful hymns looking out over this gorgeous architecture over this colorful artistic City as the Sun set and exploded into color I remember the first time I felt like there was so much beauty it made my heart ache and I remember as a young man going this is unbelievable and I instinctively thought man I wish I had someone to share this with and I was there with my buddy Ricardo but I remember as I felt that I was like that's not what I meant like Rick's a good dude but I remember thinking I want to share life with somebody I want to be with a woman I can walk with through life and I remember for me I had never like assumed I would get married because that felt like presumption like God owes me a wife and he doesn't God owes me nothing and yet for that first time I thought man but I would I really want one I really want to be married and I felt a longing that many of you feel very intensely even now I want to pair off in a journey with someone and I want to say right at the beginning as we've been marching through this series of singleness and now ground the Horn of dating into engagement that longing to pair off is good actually in this text it was pre-fall that before the fall of man before sin entered Adam felt that longing I want to be with somebody it's not good that I'm alone and so then God sent him all these animals and he was like that you know that's not what I meant like a cool moose is great and you know like it's great to hang with Coons but that's not what I'm looking for and when God introduced him to Eve he said at last someone who's a compliment to me someone who can help each other as we journey into all that God has for us together that longing to pair off is good the question we're asking today is how do we do it well in the honest answer today is in our modern age that's become more complicated Adam God just knocked him out when he woke up God was leading a naked woman towards him and he broke into poetry worked out real well but society has changed a lot in our days today and it's brought in a lot of ambiguity David Brooks who's a columnist for The New York Times said this he said young people today hit puberty around 13 and don't get married until past 30 that's two decades of coupling uncoupling hooking up relationships shopping around this period isn't a transition anymore it's a sprawling life stage and nobody knows the rules he said once young people came a-callin as part of courtship then they had dating and going steady but the rules of courtship have dissolved they've been replaced by ambiguity and uncertainty cell phones Facebook text messages give people access to hundreds of friends but that only increases the fluidity drama and anxiety and as someone who's had the privilege to minister among young people I've seen that that something that should be associated with words like exciting and suspenseful and thrilling meeting someone to pair off with for life I hear more often explained as stressful depressing this should motivate poetry not anxiety and yet in our modern world today it is difficult and so we talked last week about who you should date that the desire to pair off is good but you want to pair off with the right person and we talked about that far and away the most important characteristic is someone who's chasing the same cause if you're gonna link hands and run with someone until death do you part you want to be going the same direction in life you want to be lockstep on the biggest decisions in life who do we think made this world what's it for what does he value because that'll shape my values I want to chase him so if you know Jesus you want to link up with someone who knows him too and loves him you want to chase the same cause and then when you get that person you got to look and say do they have a God chiseled character are they letting God shape who they are do they have a basis of morality outside of our relationship so that when I'm at my worst they will still be honest with me and caring and gentle and kind because they have a foundation of morality external from our relationship you want someone with a god-shaped character and then you look for chemistry are they funny do they make me laugh do we like hanging out because much of life is just hanging out and if you find them boring don't do that right and so we said that's kind of basic principles of who you're looking for now today we need to talk about how what's the method you link up to that person so that's who you're looking for you're not looking for a soul mate in the sense of you're not looking for someone who will complete you as if you're this incomplete person that won't be complete until you meet them that's not how God made in humanity if that's the case then Jesus was incomplete and just never maximized his potential and no one's willing to say that no you are complete and it is entirely possible for you to fulfill your god-given destiny as a single person single on the front end of life or even single if you're widowed or divorced you have purpose and God can accomplish those purposes through you and so you're not incomplete but what you're meant to do is run into God's purposes and a great joy has been able to link hands and do it with someone else and that linking of hands there's different things to call it but that journey from singleness into marriage you pass through something called evaluation evaluating are we meant to grip hands and run together right it's not a status to sit in it is a process to move through and there's been different processes throughout history in the past and in many cultures today parents take the lead in helping a child find the right person and evaluating who they should link up with and run with in our modern society in America it is dating we spend time together and what's the purpose of dating dating is for evaluation what am i evaluating whether we are meant to link hands and run together so dating is not a stat we sit in it is a process we move through and with the reality is in our culture today many people instantly associate dating with drama it's supposed to be tumultuous and chaotic you listen to every song on the radio today and it's I love you I hate you I love you and hate you and you're like it's it's not meant it doesn't have to be that way I knew you were trouble when you walked in then why did you date him don't don't it need not be like this life brings enough drama don't date drama date someone good that you can run into with drama don't date crazy there's enough crazy out there date someone who you can face the crazy together with so even though the seas are tumultuous there are principles we can navigate by and that's where we are here and let me say again I'm gonna talk about seven principles of the how how do we interact with each other and again there's some of you in here that maybe you're happy to be single or you're married you go oh good this isn't about me and you know check out don't do it because these are basic principles of how we should treat each other as humanity and how we should treat one another as believers in Jesus so the principles here applied to all of us in many ways and then specifically for us as we think about how do we pair off and begin to discern are we meant to run together for a lifetime so let me give you seven principles of how the first one of how you should date I would say you need to date prayerfully prayerfully Romans 8:28 says we know God works all things for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose Paul says there's a group of us and we know that God works all things and he works him for good for those of us who love Him first Peter 5 says cast all your cares on him because he cares about you first John 4 says we have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us and there's no fear and love perfect love casts out fear do you hear what's happening in those verses for many of us we enter into our horizontal relationships like it's all on us I got to impress that person to get the job I got a WoW you in order for you to be interested in me and come in with an anxiety have I got to work it in order to get your intention but confidence in God takes the desperation out of dating that suddenly I go God is in the equation so it's not all on me he guides my steps he determines my path and he loves me he's gonna take care of me and when I begin to believe that that perfect love casts out fear he's working all things for the good for those who love him and that confidence in God takes the desperation out of dating it doesn't free you from making decisions but it does for you up to make good ones the longest chapter in Genesis was about this pairing off Genesis 24 and back then it was the dad who took the lead and helping pair off and it was Abraham looking in his servant and saying it's time to go find a wife for my son Isaac and he told him hey go to the old country people who believe in God unite my son with a woman who fears the same Lord that he does and the servant gets nervous well what if I can't find her what if she won't come back what if she won't journey with you what if she won't live on the cutting edge you're faced with him and Abraham stops him and says hey the Lord the God of heaven and earth who called me to this land and said to your offspring I will give this land he says that God will lead you and you'll find a wife and if you don't you're free from my oath but don't try to take my son back there and I love his calm there hey God's gonna take care of you and give him a wife or God's not going to but either way I'm not gonna on board a lot of anxiety there's a liberty in that God is in the equation God is part of my story God cares about you and when you know that you don't get to know all things but you know the one who controls all things and that's a comforting thought so when you become Routh out in the field you can work the field of grain because it's right but you don't have to work it in the field of grain to get Boaz's attention like oboe is coming by okay and just pick and grain like you don't have to be weird proverbs 3 says trust in the Lord with all your heart lean not on your own understanding in all of your ways including dating acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight so we start prayerfully I invite you in to this process Lord that's a great place to start and so you decide I am chasing after him I am running after the Lord and as I run after him a lot of cute eligible people are gonna be running different directions I let him go right by I'm chasing him and as I run after him I'm running with a community and I'm gonna see some of them become Mentors some of them become brothers and sisters some of them are gonna be cute and have some potential and so I need to run up next to them and point to is you initiate with clarity that I begin prayerfully and then I initiate with clarity one of the greatest stresses in modern dating today is the lack of clarity I don't know where we stand and that lack of clarity produces anxiety it's one of the things that's driven many people to online dating which I don't want to talk a lot about it but but many people go well then at least I know it's a date and there's some dangers with online dating and only it's all bad but there's some dangers when all the time you get into all that but the reality is someone go east has some clarity on what it is potentially more than out there in the world today but I would encourage you we need to initiate with clarity and why do I say it that way well it's interesting Ephesians 4 is just talking about believers in general people who have an allegiance to God and he says about the way we talk to each other he says speaking the truth in love we will in all things grow into the head he says when you have an allegiance to Jesus you have an allegiance to his people and that allegiance is I will be honest with you I will speak the truth to you and I will speak in a loving way and I will do it with an aim that you would grow into all you're meant to be under God that's the commitment we make to each other that's what makes the community so beautiful I'm not gonna lie to you or not gonna deceive you I'm not gonna be vague I'm gonna speak the truth but not in a harsh way I'm gonna speak the truth with love with a redemptive goal and as we all do that to each other we all grow and develop together speaking the truth with love and I would take it a step further not just speaking the trip with love speaking the truth is love proverbs 24 26 says an honest answer is a kiss on the lips if I'm honest with you it's the way to be gracious to you to kind to you cuz now I know where we stand ambiguity produces anxiety and so clarity is a kindness it is a way to love you so I initiate with clarity and men this fall's largely on you is that fair is that the way it should be is that a biblical mandate not necessarily I mean you do have text like Proverbs that say a man who finds a wife finds a good thing so the verb is there for the man to go find the wife so I think there's probably some argument there but the most asked question I get is can women initiate a date and the truth is you got Ruth with Boaz she was working in the field Boaz wasn't making a move and so she went over to the threshing floor it's like hey I'm curious are we doing this what's going on and he wasn't much shame on you he was like this woman's awesome and he just thought she was out of his league and he was like I'm moving now and he got some things done and she was called a righteous woman and so I don't think it's wrong and yet as you looked through the Bible there is a call for men to have courage and be courageous and is she just look across the culture it's interesting there was a survey done in 2012 that said only 12 percent of American women asked a man out on a date in the previous year so let me just say that wasn't just religious people that was of all people guys women want men to initiate they want men to be the initiators with clarity and they prefer you do it face-to-face it's interesting as you look at during surveys and I did my own some like texts some don't some prefer calling some don't but the one you get the most of men is looking at them in the face and they almost universally hate being asked to hang out I've just found it's very vague and frustrating to a lot of women so I asked I did focus groups on this man and so I asked him well what would you rather have them say do you wanted to say the word date is that old-fashioned and they said no cuz now at least I know what it is and I know how to get dressed right they said I'd prefer the word date they said or plan a thing and then invite me to go do that thing and then at least I know what I'm getting into have clarity with the initiation I did this with Donna after making many mistakes in dating so don't let me present myself as if I'm a hero there are still many people I know good friends with I think the fact that I'm talking about and wrote a book about dating they find endlessly hilarious because my previous dating would be best described as dumpster fire but only had to get it right once but with Donna I remember when we first met we were hanging out in a community of believers which is where I'd hope you would meet people it's a and as we were kind of in these sister churches our orbits overlap I got to watch her life she got to watch mine and there was a moment where I wanted to get to know her better specifically but I didn't know her very well so there was a group of us going to a movie and I said hey a group of us are going would y'all like to go and we kind of United our groups to go do something together I conveniently left the seat by me open but it wasn't a date but after that time I really enjoyed hanging out with her and so I asked her can I call you and then I called her and said hey my brother has this new year's event going on and I want to go and I need to bring a date would you be my date to this New Year's thing because I wanted her to know what she was getting into she said yes and so we went to it and at the end of that I wanted to give clarity not just initiation but in clarity with intention I got to the end of that said hey I really enjoyed tonight do you mind if I call you again and I did that because I knew a lot of girls that they would maybe have a nice time with a guy and get out and leave and go so what happens now am I supposed to call him does he call me am I supposed to X him did he ask me do I just talk him online should I call me should I not comment do i DM or do I not to him I said to person and they just not sure what to do I just wanted to eliminate the drama so that she'd know he'll call me and I called her and I said hey there's a play downtown I'd like to see would you go with me to a play we never made it to the play about midway through it we got an emergency phone call from some friends there at the hospital and so we pivoted but that was part of the evaluation of dating of realizing hey are you willing to go with me when suddenly minutes calls and we got to care for some people and she was now I was pretty helpful but but what I tried to do was give her clarity along the way that she always knew where she stood now that doesn't mean on date one you walk up and go I would like to initiate courtship now like that's no man don't do it but date three four five you may want to sit down and and I would typically do it in the car just say hey I'm really enjoying getting to know you and I'm not trying to get married like this month but I'm also not just messing around you seem like the kind of person I could see myself doing life with and so do you mind if I keep calling you and I just wanted to give her permission to respond and clarity as to where I was at and then I gave her clarity on an exit I said but if at any point in this process you feel uncomfortable let me know and we can stop I trust God with my life and I trust him with yours and so I didn't want to be clingy and desperate I'm like I trust God with his leading of me and I trust him with his leading of you so I wanted to give clear initiation clarity and where we were and clarity and exit you can exit if you want to and she would say no I don't want to and so we journey together but ladies this is where you come in as well that clarity is helpful it takes courage to ask a girl out and historically you can read a lot of studies on it guys were better at it in the past because they did it a lot and there's even different cultures I remember for me I had a buddy from West Texas that we were talking about growing up and he was like man the talent I would go to every Friday night there was a big town dance and the expectation was you would ask a date and so I was asking a girl to be my date every single Friday and I was like he's my age I'm like what was it like a Dharma Initiative like where were you like what is this like backwards town like where you do this a dates on Friday night and then we went to France Donna and I we're in this little village in France and these people were like hey every Friday night the town shuts down and we have a big dance and everyone invites a date and I was like oh this is like a human thing and across cultures communities used to create environments that would encourage men to initiate with women and so guys got better at it just because they got more reps you know I mean they're just getting good at it and they'd be like do you want to go No okay that hurt oh I survived it and I move on and suddenly it's not that scary I just you know every week it's coming back around nowadays there's less of that and so a lot of guys feel it's fear initiating because it's just like this guys pitched a hundred times I've pitched once it feels like the wrong arm like that feels bad and you don't need to shame him for that the culture has done that the screens have done that and the phones have done that they've made initiating awkward and so let's not shame each other about that let's acknowledge this current situation is not our fault but it is our problem and so if a guy initiates with you give him the gift of clarity I remember I talked with a group of young people's I discussed this and one guy was like yeah there was a girl in my church I thought she was awesome so I told her hey would you like to go to dinner with me and she said is it a date and he said yeah and she said no she said she said I think we'd have a good time because you're really fun but I don't really see us going anywhere and when she said that he said that to a roomful of people they've responded like some of you they were like ooh he was like no I loved it he said cuz now I knew where we stood she didn't waste my time she didn't just ghost me and not get back to me for like a month and leave me wondering and come up with reasons why I'm insufficient she just said I don't see us that way and now I knew and it was a way to respect him right that an honest answer is a kiss on the lips it's a way to love people to be honest with them and initiating an intention and an exit you got that we're gonna move a little quicker all right number three is we date with autonomy autonomy you go what do you mean by that well if you look in the Bible there's different categories of people that have different expectations as to how they treat each other the biggest categories are believers in Jesus and those who are not and the Bible is pretty clear on how those two categories relate Christians are meant to love everybody even all the way to their enemies we're meant to love everybody live life among them seek the good of the city flourishing of people whether they believe what we believe about Jesus or not we're meant to love all people work together do life we're meant to do that but on the biggest issues of life you're not yoked together with unbelievers the tightest of business deals and in marriage we talked about that last week that there's a division there if someone doesn't believe what you do about God you don't get married because your lives are going different directions so you don't need today but then once you limit the pool into the people that have that same Allegiance you look in the pool and the Bible's pretty clear that people who have faith in Jesus the Bible calls us brother and sister and there's all kinds of passages about how brothers and sisters are supposed to treat each other encourage one another as long as it's called today stir one another up to love and good deeds that we're meant to bless one another and that sort of thing and then there's this other category called husband and wife that have this whole different set of expectations as to how they treat each other but what you see in modern dating today is people trying to create this interim space well you and I are more than just brother and sister but I don't want to take on the freight of marriage and so let's call it something else let's call it talking and let's call it boyfriend and girlfriend and frankly I don't care what you call it or use those terms but what they mean by this interim space is it imports some responsibilities into my life and some benefits to my life that are in marriage without breaking off the whole thing so some responsibilities like I'll have girls come up to me and say hey my boyfriend doesn't go to church with me can you tell him he should go to church with me like dating creates this should or they'll say hey I think that we should do our devotional life together should we do that that sort of thing or they'll say we've been dating in awhile so that gives me certain privileges like access to your but I don't want to have the responsibility of you know loving you it's sickness and health you might become a hassle and I got to get out and so I want to create the space where I get some benefits but not all the responsibilities I get some responsibilities but I don't take on all the benefits of security and safety of you loving me till death do we part this space is what's causing so much confusion and pain and people ask me what's the biblical mandate on it I was like the Bible doesn't have this category it doesn't have I import some but not others it doesn't have it and so that's confusing dating is not a status to sit in it's a process to move through it is not a rest stop to pause in four years it is a road to journey through to see where we're meant to end up together it is not something you secure to feel safety it is proximity for the purpose of evaluation and so if I'm evaluating their life I'm not trying to mesh our lives too deeply dating is about evaluating is this the kind of person I want to run with so there's a sense of separation brother and sister there is some separation between us soand Donna and I dated I wasn't trying to get her to move to the town that I felt God called me to she's not married to me you live wherever you want to live you do whatever you want to do you go where God's called you to go yes we're spending time together because we might be in locking into forever but until I tell you I want all of you forever until death do us part you have no allegiance to me and so that creates some tension and I have people say that there won't that create tension didn't you want the resolution of just like moving in together and maybe sleeping together and haven't all that you of course you want that resolution but that tension is what propels you through the process it makes you get on or get off of God we serious about this or not and it's interesting as you look at all the different studies today this is where most of the stress lives is people want to import certain responsibilities but not all of them and so we languish in ambiguity and it's fascinating as I read various studies Mark Regnerus did kind of the biggest one if you have trouble sleeping at night I highly recommend this book because it's it's a lot of statistics about modern dating and as he looks at these different statistics he says the mode experience for most is to introduce sexuality before any promise of a relationship he said so sex comes in early and relationship comes in later and this is what he said this has become common in young young people sex early on before any expression of love an underdeveloped interest in sacrificing on behalf of the other accounts of overlapping partners much drama and in the end nothing but mixed memories an expired time and as he talks about that he said many people they've sort of pseudo knit together their lives but not all the way so they languished for years and a frustration begins to grow of where is this going and particularly among women that frustration grows he interviews number of people from different cities in America Washington DC being one of them and one of his case studies was a girl that she's like you know I'm living in New York and I'm mixing it in with these different guys but as I'm approaching 30 I want I want a companion in life but I'm having these intense sexual experiences and then I don't know if we're gonna be together or not and then it doesn't really work and we move into each other but I don't really know you and as I get to know you I go I don't think I want to be with you but now we've journeyed for months and and we're just languishing in this space where we've been meshed our lives before I know if you're someone worthy of all of me and that a meshing is hurting it's costing us and realizing this isn't really what I want to live so we asked her what's your ideal and she said well some guys I'm sleeping with right away and he said are those the guys you're interested in she said no they're the guys I'm the least interested in she said the one I'm interested in I hold sex back and he was like why and he said because sex complicates things and that's the fourth point that we date with purity and she said sex complicates things a girl with not any spiritual experience she just said I just know when you introduce sexuality it's such an intense human experience that it throws off the evaluating if I even like this person she says so it complicates the evaluation and so we asked her what's the ideal and she said the ideal would be to hold off sexuality and hold our lives separate to see do we like each other do we enjoy hanging out do you make me laugh do I trust you let's build a friendship and let's let that friendship be the foundation and then upon that foundation of friendship action grows in romance and then sex is the consummation of the marriage it's not the introduction of the relationship it's the consummation that says I want all of you not just emotionally and not just financially and physically in life I now once you sexually we consummate this covenant we've made with one another she said that's what I would prefer but she just didn't think it was realistic and it's interesting Donna Freitas found the same thing if she studied college students she said the hook-up culture of sex early on without really relationship she said when she interviewed students from all over America the highest praised it received was the word fine that most people didn't really enjoy it and she said so I asked people what would you like and she said far and away they wanted romance they wanted talking they wanted to be known and of course people want to have sex but with someone who's worthy of all of them and so it's interesting in the Bible you know Paul will speak to this issue he quotes that Genesis passage we talked about where he warns us in 1st Corinthians 6 he says don't you know those who've joined with a prostitute become one body with her friends that has written the two will become one flesh but he was joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him flee sexual immorality every other sin a person commits outside the body but sexually immoral person sins against his own body he says when you unite your bodies to fast now we know chemically what happens it releases dopamine into the system and oxytocin dopamine is the happy chemical that says whatever you did do a lot of that and oxytocin is a hormone that produces bonding same hormones released when a mom nurses a baby that's why there's no such thing as casual sex it's such an intense human experience that it bonds you together but if you initiate it too early you get this bond where you're literally looking forward to do it again you want to be around that person but you haven't asked the question of do I like hanging out with them what I want to live in the same house and talk to you every day for 50 years but we're together and for longer periods of time because this intensity of this physical experience we're having but as the intensity of that wears off maybe a few years go by and you go you know what I don't think we're a good fit relationally and that's a shame that's sad and so we're meant to hold that back not to hurt us and this is always the dangerous part of the talk cuz people man is this guy promoting sexual purity like a Puritan like I wonder I'm gonna we're passing out purity ring's on the way out the door like is that what he's saying what I'm trying to say is God built the human machine and he knows how it works best and he gave us sex as a gift was his idea you know it really was when Adam and Eve he brought him together he was excited about that he said be fruitful and multiply is the first command he said get after it guys like God was for it but he said I want you to do it in a way that you're not just binding together your bodies you're binding together all of you a radical donation to somebody who says I want all of you so hold the sexuality back because that's the part you're probably the most confident will work out let's figure out all the other pieces first are we in it together in every other way and then we consummate it sexually in marriage that's the idea do you see that it's interesting I have so many people asked me hey you keep advocating dating within a Christian community but what happens if we date and then break up and then you know in the agreement it's like who gets the church okay you get the church on every other Sunday how does it work what's interesting Psychology Today did a study of the intensity and severity of breakups and they said the severity of a breakup is not time tied primarily to how long you date it's tied to the intensity of the experience psychologically Psychology Today is not a Christian anything but they said if you bond together sexually too fast you create a strong bond and you literally when you break up from that person your body goes through withdrawal like from a drug and that's where you get anxiety sleepless nights you get heartache you literally can make yourself sick gastro-intestinal II that if you bind your bodies too fast and then break up it actually hurts you and that's why Paul was telling the Corinthians hey don't be fast to bind your body with something you don't know cuz cuz you're doing violence against yourself and your God loves you he wants what's best for you he wants you to have sex and the best possible kind he wants you to give all of your body to someone who wants all of your heart to and so we date with autonomy I don't have access to you you don't have access to me that will create some tension and that creates some wisdom for Donna and I we were never alone in her apartment because she was hot and I wanted to touch her but I wasn't sure if we were gonna live the rest of our days together so we said we'll just never be alone together we'll have some autonomy in our relationship Paul told you chun-yin young Timothy treat older women his mother's younger woman his sisters with absolute purity you don't fool around their sister don't fool around with her so I just kind of waited and yeah that produced some tension and made me want to hurry up and decide we're either doing this thing or we're not doing this thing but that tension is meant to drive you through the evaluation does that make sense so much more to say but I got to go too fast and that's how that goes but let me just say this I know this isn't a roomful of virgins and so you're like is he trying to shame me and the answer is no no and when Jesus interacted with people who had had a wide variety of sexual experiences the hand of grace always slide first that he loves you God has purpose for you and God wants you to enjoy sexuality in a way that lets you flourish okay and so God wants to renovate your life from the inside out and then once you to journey with us in the best possible way in a pure way with autonomy and with purity there's really only one dating experience I got right before Donna will dumpster fire with a lot of them right and I remember there was one time where my sister was about to come to college and as my sister was about to come to college some of my buddies were joking yeah man I'm totally gonna beat your sister I'm coming after and they're like yeah I remember I was like you will not date my sister and I was looking particularly at one guy and he was like no no no like like I'll kill you like it's not even a thing and guys all assumed I was being like that macho like no one dates my sister and I was like no I know that guy and I watched the way he treated girls and he wasn't good to them he didn't have their best interests in mind he wasn't out to see them flourish as women under God so I was like there's no way you're getting near my sister bro and as they left the lunchroom I remember one of them just said over shoulder like yeah man has anyone ever gonna be good enough to date your sister and they left and remember when he said that they were walking away I was kinda like well yes of course and then I had to stop and think about that who would be good enough to date my sister and I spent a long time alone in that lunch room lunch was over everyone left and I just had to ponder who would be good enough for my sister and I thought it's the kind of person who would treat her like a sister the that I want my experience with my sister's life to be whatever I say or do in our life to help her flourish as a woman under God that's what I want and I said I'd want a guy who treats her that way and and then if they figure out hey we love each other meant for more now they're husband and wife whole different universe of verses apply to you but but if they're not she's a better person as a result of being in his orbit and I said I'd want that kind of guy around her and I remember it was one of those like Holy Spirit Jukes you know where the Lord like brought me to that I'm like yeah that's the kind of guy at what and God was like is that how you're treating women and I started tearing up because the answer was no not at all and I had to repent if the way I was treating women and I was like I want to do it differently and I remember right at the end of college I dated a girl and we did that I was like I don't know if we're supposed to be married or not so I want some on Tommy look let's spend some time together but we're not gonna start touching each other a lot because that'll be exciting but but I just want to wait and see and sure enough she was chasing the same cause had a godly character but the chemistry just wasn't there after about an hour two of hanging out we're both like everything else good and after a while I was like man we just can't do this like we just don't like hang it out and so we realized it's not gonna work and so we broke up it was a little sad and cried a little bit because there's a lot of good stuff about you but the reality is we realized hey we're not a good fit forever and I remember thanking God we didn't create this strong bond was something that I wasn't meant to journey with and truthfully years later I would continue to see her and it was awesome for me to be able to look her in the eye and not feel embarrassed at all to look her husband in the eye and not be embarrassed at all yeah the way I treated her was was the way I would want a brother to treat his sister and I felt good about that with autonomy and was purity and I was happy about that I wanted that experience and I want you to have that and so can you date in the same church yeah I think if you do it that way you can say hey you know what let's spend some time together let's go on some dates see if it works if it doesn't work you go you know what okay but it doesn't create that intensity that's that ripping apart and what you see and so much of the documentation is a lot of people are getting hurt by that repeated process and so just know this is coming from a pastor's heart that wants to see the best for you number five is we date graciously graciously that were kind with one another that I treat you I'm not a big fan of the word courtship carries a lot of baggage but I do like the word courtesy because it comes out of that word court and it's speaking of a king's court that I want to treat you like you're a daughter of the king I want to treat you like you're the son of a king because if you're in Christ you are and my allegiance to my father in heaven should affect how I treat you so I don't ghost the king's daughter cuz I have an allegiance of him he probably and talked to me about it right like so I'm gonna treat her with honor so I want to treat you in a gracious manner in a kind manner that you're a better person as a result of intersecting with me that I've been spoken life-giving words to you I've encouraged you spurred you on towards love and good deeds that you're a better person as a result of our connection I want that experience with people and just quite frankly dating graciously choosing to be kind that is attractive proverbs 11 says a gracious woman attains honor and so ladies I remember there was a girl I knew in high school and a girl I knew in college and both of them were not the most attractive girls in our social circle which I know is a horrible thing to say but it's true there were other girls that were physically hotter than them but for both of them it was a fascinating thing to watch guys were constantly hitting on them constantly wanting to date them even non-christian guys would would be confused by it they would just be like I love you they're like what am i doing and and they they were just so kind I remember one time we worked together at a restaurant and she would just help people if they were struggling clean up with their tables even though that didn't benefit her financially her family owned like a peach orchard so she'd bring everyone peaches just like a thing she's bring us stuff and everyone's like you were the kindest person I love you and like people were drawn to her because of her graciousness it's a gracious woman that attains honour in guys proverbs 19 says what is desirable and a man is his kindness I remember for me one of the first ministries I was a part of I had a guy that was leading the ministry that quite frankly was not an attractive man but he had a beautiful wife and I remember being confused by that and then he got a hand I thought we had a different Bible study leader who was also not an attractive man but had a beautiful wife and I remembered pondering these things in my heart like how is this so and and finally I asked one of him about it I just said can you can you explain this to me I don't understand it and he wasn't put off by that he was like two great questions when I've often asked myself he said here's the deal he said you know he was like in his 20s whatever met this girl she was gracious kind beautiful amazing and so he was drawn towards her and he said man before I even had the time to process I just walked up to her said hey I'd love to get to know you can I take you to dinner and she said yes and he was like man I had just worked up all this courage and adrenaline do that I came back to my room like whoa she said yes whoa we're gonna go on a date I don't say oh my god and he started having a panic attack he was like now batting out of his League he's like I know I don't know what I'm about to say he said he freaked out didn't know what to do he said I did the only thing I knew to do and then I don't even know if it's even right he said he just grabbed a Bible off the shelf and was like god help and he read a verse and it was proverbs 19 what is desirable in a man is his kindness and he said whatever happens tonight I will be kind and that was his decision they went on a date went on another date another date and then I'm getting married about a year into their marriage he said they were laying in bed one night and he looked at her and asked the very same question I had asked how did this happen and she said I just remember you were so kind you were so kind in that moment he was like yes it works it works that graciousness kindness courtesy someone who's caring for you that's what you want and the number six is I think you want community community you one of the most dangerous things about dating today is we pair off too early and we do the entire process of evaluating in isolation and I don't think that's the best thing proverbs 11 will say where there's no guidance people fall but an abundance of counselors their safety their safety and having people around you who can evaluate if that's a good guy or not and not just safety proverbs 24 says with many counselors victory is sure they can help you hey that's the right person that is a good person you need a community around you that you trust not just of people that are just slashing off advice whose life isn't really working out great but people that you say this person has wisdom they'd be a good counselor for me I want them around this relationship tell me what you see so for Donna and I when we started dating I remember there were people around that wanted to give us advice they were so excited because I never dated and suddenly Ben was dating and so they just wanted to take this little tender flower of our love and like grab it and make it grow and kind of spread out the leaves and was like stop it it's fragile there's all these people had to isolate from but there was a few people that I was like hey I want you around us I want to double-date with this couple and I really want you to watch us and see is this a good fit here is this the right thing I didn't have confidence in myself to make that decision in isolation and and for Donna I remember the first time we really were like hey we're going on a date she's like we'll pick me up at my church I showed up at her church and there was like 200 people there and she planned it that way and I had to meet all of them and it took like a couple hours I'm just like okay alright you know like my resume okay you know I'm sitting down interviewing people like she was a part of this ministry that really loved her and so they wanted to see is this guy right and and I actually really respected that that the inn times past the community of faith would help each other and I think we need to do that not not in an overbearing way but for you to go who was some counselors that I can say watch this relationship is this happening in a healthy way I would take her on day three I'd ask people I had a guy that was one of my mentors that was great at repelling and I said well you take us rappelling it'll be a fun day to kind of go rappelling down this mountain and you'll just get to be around us and then tell me what you see we need help evaluating particularly because infatuation throws off our ability to evaluate songs songs when they get together they're very excited she opens up the text I let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth she's so excited by this guy she's like I want his face on my face and he's jumping around like a deer pound bouncing over mountains he's out of control and so you see in the text a couple people begin to speak through the poetry of Song of Solomon the great love song of romance you get the woman you get the man you get God and you get the woman's friends and there's a you know a precedent to that if you want to be your lover you got to get with her friends right and you see her friends at one point say rightly do the maidens love you that they know she's infatuated they're not there evaluating not the chemistry that's clearly there they're watching your character and they tell her that is the right person to set your affections on you need counselors around you in the abundance of counsel their safety and in the Bundys of counselor victory is sure you want people around you who will journey through the process with you and the last thing you want is you date patiently patiently I trust the Lord I believe he's carrying my life forward and by that I don't mean you languish in a relationship for years and years and years but what I mean is as you're holding off your life with a bit of autonomy and that tension is created you're giving yourself to space to really evaluate are we meant to be together Paul told Timothy as he was anointing leaders don't be hasty and rich laying on of hands don't quickly appoint someone a leader in your community he says watch them some people sins go before them it's obvious they're a mess he said others it follows after give yourself a time to evaluate is this the right person to unite with you need that time as fast as you can but as slow as you must so for Donna and I we started dating and in the early days it was pretty intense a lot of time together every single day talked her on the phone texting and I know for me as someone who processes slowly it was too much because I was about to leave my ministry and start seminary and there's so much ambiguity in my life and uncertainty about where her life was going and her life seemed like it was going that way mine this Lane I didn't want to interrupt what God was doing in her life and I didn't want her to interrupt mine and I was trying to discern if our lives fit together I wasn't sure it was too much but we had a summer where her band was gonna travel like the sixteen different states and I was gonna be handing off my ministry so I looked at her and I said hey let's just not talk on the phone let's not see each other in person and I said let's write letters and I mean like old school analog like get some paper and a pen and write letters and mail them to each other you know like literally hand them to a mailman and then he gets in his car and he like drives it to like a room or some other mailman puts it in his car and drives it to where let's let's do that thing grandparents told us about and so and then I realized she's gonna write ten notes before I write one I was like everyone for one I said you write a letter to me and I'll write a letter back to you and let's slow this process down so I can evaluate it I'm not saying everyone should do that but I realized I needed that in my evaluation so she wrote me a letter and I read it and I remember I wrote one back put it in the mail four days later she got it she wrote me back I can't read anything you wrote because my penmanship is terrible so she gave me permission to type and I would type these letters to her of my love and it's seinem in cinema but I remember what I needed to see no promise of the dopamine head of her body now that physicality I just needed to see do I like interacting with her at an emotional and intellectual ever level and what I found was I started to look forward to her letters and I had to ask myself is that just the comfort of not being alone or is it actually her as a person and had to wait after realized after a while I was like but I know I'm really looking forward to a letter from her and it got so crazy there was a time I remember I was leading a ministry thing in one city and I knew it had been about four days so I was guessing a letter was coming from her because I couldn't text her and ask so I was like I'm pretty sure it's gonna be in my mailbox I looked at my internals like in the car son and we like drove through the night to wake up in the morning and be by the mailbox and be like is there a letter for me and I started to see that in myself I'm looking forward to hearing her heart and then I remember it was fourth of July I was on a party on a boat and all these people were laughing and glasses clinking and fireworks going off it was big festive moment out on this lake but I was just standing at the mess just staring list fully into the darkness and I remember asking myself why are you so downcast O my soul and and I realized I miss her and I want to be with her and I loved being single and so I was looking to being like man you're gonna lose a lot of autonomy bro you're gonna lose all these benefits of singleness when I started processing her and I was like I she's better and and it took me some months it took slowing the process down for me to discern that in myself but as we evaluate him like I I want to run with her even if everything's better or if it gets worse if she gets sick or I get sick or we stay healthy until death I want that and then I wasted no time and I got a ring quick and I realized how fast can you put together a wedding let's speed it up by three months right like let's get this thing done right so go as slow as you have to as fast as you can to evaluate are we meant to grab hands and run together but trust God with it trust him with your story he cares he cares about your heart cast all your cares upon him because he cares for you lean not on your own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge him he'll make your paths straight and then let's walk into a community like this and let's love each other sincerely let's speak the truth to one another in love so that in all things together we grow into the head that is Christ whether we end up being each other's mentors being each other's friends being each other's brothers and arms and sisters and arms as we go through the battles of life or whether some of us end up being lovers let's journey together in a way that all of us flourish because we all walk together after our great king who loved us and gave everything for us he did not hold back he sacrificed everything for us and so we gladly give all back to him that's the relationship God has with us didn't we journey together and by his grace he'll put you together with the right person in the right way in the right time

Channel: Passion City Church DC

Views: 366,738

Rating: 4.9525719 out of 5

Keywords: passion, passion city church, messages, sermons, ben stuart, Washington D.C., dating, singleness, engaged, married, how to date

Id: WrupCnu4yCk

Length: 49min 44sec (2984 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 03 2019