- [Chris] Is this the
International Association of Scientologists? - [Scientologist] Yeah, yeah, it's the membership organisation. You are at the right place. - Yeah, great, so... (quirky music) Who remembers Neopets? I used to love this site
back in the early 2000s. When I wasn't rearranging my MySpace Top 8 or unbuttoning my collar,
even though I was a prefect... I know! I spent a lot of time on here. - [Announcer] Are you ready for adventure? Explore Neopia, a world
of mysterious lands where anything can happen. - For those who missed the hype, Neopets was a website where you created and then looked after
your own virtual pets, like Stephen the Brave here, who is, oh my god, dying
of hunger right now. Whoops. Side note, by the way, unlike, say, a Tamagotchi, which is programmed to
perish if you don't feed it, a Neopet can't do that, which means, dear viewer,
if you, at any point, had a Neopet and have forgotten about it, it's still out there, and it's alive, and it's oh so hungry. Anyway, the site was mostly
about two main activities, exploring the world of Neopia or playing one of its
many, many Flash games. These can vary in quality
pretty drastically, but some weren't half bad, even if they weren't
exactly original ideas. Oh, and shout out to
Extreme Potato Counter, the game that really is
exactly what it sounds like. (upbeat music) Yeah. The site is still up and running today, although very little has
changed in more recent years, but at its height, Neopets boasted tens of
millions of active users. There was a trading card game
from Wizards of the Coast. My dog's had a go on that, hasn't she? Look at that. Little git. There were Happy Meals
toys, talk of a movie. Neopets was a huge, huge deal. And for about five of those years, as it was first exploding into popularity, the site was owned and operated
by a group belonging to an extremely controversial
religious organisation, one that has been widely criticised for both the exploitation
of its own members and the harassment of those
who speak out against it. I'm talking about the
Church of Scientology, founded in the early 1950s by American author L. Ron Hubbard. - But man, man poses a great many problems. - Neopets and Scientology, how did those two things end
up getting mixed up together? And what kind of impact did that relationship
have on the site itself? To find out answers to those questions, I travelled to London to meet the original creators of Neopets, Adam and Donna Powell. - [Donna] You know, we
had no idea existed, and we don't really care
about people's religion or political views. It doesn't really
interest us, to be honest. Whatever floats your boat, but yeah, it got a little bit interesting. - This story really starts
in 1999 in the United States, as the pair originally planned to set up an advertising network in San Jose. They'd been doing something
similar back in the UK, and had been approached by a
couple of potential investors interested in working together. However, this venture
lasted roughly three weeks before the relationship
with these new partners ended very dramatically. According to the Powells, there was a huge argument
which involved death threats, the police being called, and eventually, the pair just deciding to pack
up and move to Miami instead. It was here that the two of them, feeling understandably jaded towards the world of advertising, began work on their side project, the virtual pet website
they would call Neopets. Now, the original idea for the site involved the whole thing being built around a 2D top-down adventure game in which you explored a
multi-player world with your pet and then encountered
others doing the same. Adam and Donna had recruited
a third person to work on this while they concentrated
on the rest of the site. But the thing is, that central game idea, which sounds incredibly ambitious to me, never actually materialised. In fact, the person they were
working with disappeared, and Adam and Donna were left with just the work that
they'd done themselves. Screw it, they thought, let's put something out there anyway. On November 15th, 1999, Neopets was officially launched. Some of the earliest pets from that time, designed by Donna, are
still in the game today. Scorchio, Chia, Wocky,
Uni, those are all hers. The art may have changed in the sense, but those core ideas remain. However, there were some
pets from this period which were a little different. For example, these included
Macy Grey, as in the singer, Pat Sharp from Funhouse, and my personal favourite, Bruce Forsyth, the television presenter. - To see you! - [Audience] Nice! - [Chris] They were all options
as you created your account for the first time as
you're starting Neopets. - [Donna] I was either me or Adam, I don't know- - [Adam] Found an image
of him on the internet and just stick him in the
circle, and he's a pet now. - [Donna] I just, like, drew over
him in Flash, basically. - [Adam] We were just probably
drunk and doing stupid stuff. - [Donna] Yeah. - It wouldn't be until the Neopets team eventually hired its own in-house lawyer that these pets were removed to protect the site from legal issues. While I say removed, Bruce
Forsyth became Bruce the Penguin, a Neopet known for its love of dancing. But back then, things were
just quick and exciting. The site was being
updated almost every day with things that were often half-finished, and Neopets basically took
over Adam and Donna's life. They would work on it throughout the day, go out for dinner and talk about the site, then come home and work on it some more, because, despite their haphazard
approach to development, Neopets was proving extremely popular, and this proved to be both a blessing and a curse for its creators. - [Adam] We launched in
November, and then, by December, it was getting to the
point where they wanted like $6,000 a month to
just run the service. - [Chris] Wow, how many people
would that be for, then? - [Adam] Oh, I mean, so I know we had, we had 100,000 pages a day
in the start of December. Then, like, we went home for
Christmas and it crashed. There was nothing, there was no down page. It was just literally can't
connect to the server. That was it. - I think it's really
worth trying to imagine what this must have felt
like for the pair of them, because it helps explain what comes next. So, picture this, you've just moved to
America at a young age, and you've had an awful time of it so far. The advertising industry which you thought you
wanted to be involved with, it's not working out. You want out of that industry, and somehow, impossibly,
your passion project, the thing you dream about
when you go to sleep at night, is proving to be extremely popular. You're not making any
money from it just yet, but that's surely just a matter of time with this many players. And right then, just as everything seems
to be going so well, it crashes and you can't
afford to keep it going. Desperate for help, in that moment, you're introduced by a friend
to a possible investor. - [Adam] These were the Scientologists. - [Donna] We didn't know. It's not something that
pops up in conversation. - [Adam] I'd never heard of it, really. - [Chris] And so, as the year 2000 begins, a deal is struck in which Doug Dohring and a group of investors
purchase majority shares in this new company called
Neopets Incorporated, leaving Adam and Donna
with 18% between them. Was it the right decision, do you think? - [Adam] No, god, no. - [Donna] No, the right
decision, we weren't aware. We were totally and utterly naive. The right decision
would probably have been for us to go to a VC
firm in Silicon Valley. - [Chris] Right. - [Adam] Or anything. - [Donna] Find anyone
that has any experience of running games. - I think we need to take
a break from Neopets here to talk about who Doug
Dohring actually is. I did request an interview
with him for this piece, but that was graciously declined. Now, anecdotally, as I've
been researching the story, I've been told or I've
read at numerous points that Doug Dohring and his
wife are two of the top donors to the Church of Scientology ever. That's been somewhat difficult to verify. What I have found, however, is this, a photograph from a gala
that happened last year, weirdly enough, not
too far away from here, in East Grinstead, and
this is the two of them receiving something called
the Patron Excalibur award, which looks like an
impressive trophy, right? But what is it for? What did they do to receive that honour? Well, to find out, I'm gonna try something
a little unusual here and give the Church of Scientology a call, or at least the local subset of the church that's based in East Grinstead. So, let's see how that goes. (phone rings) Is this the International
Association of Scientologists? - [Scientologist] Yeah, yeah. it's the membership organisation. You are at the right place. - [Chris] Yeah, great, so, I'm working on a story about a man called Doug Dohring, and I saw that recently he
attended an awards evening at Saint Hill and received an award. - [Scientologist] Uh-huh. - [Chris] It was the- - [Scientologist] Yeah. You know, I don't have this type of data. - [Chris] So, he received something called the Patron Excalibur award. I was wondering if you could tell me what that award was for. - [Scientologist] He is
not from here at all, so I wouldn't be able to tell you. He is, like, from America. - [Chris] Yeah, but I
believe the award night happened at Saint Hill, is that right? - [Scientologist] Yeah, I,
myself, didn't attend this year, but, yes, there is always one here. - [Chris] Could you tell me what the Patron Excalibur award is? I just sort of wanted to know
why he was presented with it. - [Scientologist] Because
he gave a certain, you know, he supported the Association, so that's why he got that. - [Chris] Right, okay. - [Scientologist] But I wouldn't, I need to give you, like,
the person that can, you know, I'm just not the right person. So, I would have to give
you the right person to answer these questions. - [Chris] Okay. - [Scientologist] Can that
person get back to you? Because they're in America, you know, so they're not, they're
sleeping right now. - [Chris] Yeah, sure,
would you like my number? - [Scientologist] Yes, please. Okay, good. Yeah, so I will let them
know to give you a call and have the data that I
can't give all prepared. - [Chris] Okay, well, thank you very much. - [Scientologist] You are welcome. - Goodbye. I guess I'll let you know
if I receive a call back in the next few days. I did not receive a call back from the International
Association of Scientologists, but I did, however, find a copy of this, this membership brochure from 2006. Now, this brochure explains that here at Saint Hill Manor in East Grinstead, once a year, a series
of awards are presented to those who reached a
certain level of donation. Interestingly, when
this was made available, the Patron Excalibur
award was yet to exist. And that tells us something interesting. It tells us that the award Doug Dohring and his wife received is
likely to be of a higher level than any of the awards advertised in here, suggesting they've
donated significantly more than the $10 million required
for a Patron Laureate. In fact, the general consensus online seems to be that a Patron Excalibur is probably somewhere
around the $20 million mark. - [Man] Can I ask you a question? - Oh, yeah. - [Man] Who are you? - Oh, okay. (traffic drowns out conversation) And so, there we are, the majority shareholder
of Neopets in 2000 was indeed a Scientologist, and not just a casual
member of the church, but someone that's donated millions upon millions of
dollars over his lifetime. But what did that mean
for the site itself? Did Scientology ever have a
genuine impact on Neopets? I asked Adam and Donna about the moment they first realised who
they were in business with. - [Donna] I think it was
like the interview questions. Wasn't it? - [Adam] Yeah, there was some weirdness, because every time an interview came in, they had to do this
personality test thing. It was copyrighted L. Ron
Hubbard at the bottom. So, we started probably
not Googling in the day, but like Alta Vista or Lycosing to find out more information. And then we found this kind
of Scientology website, and we're like, oh, Doug Dohring, okay, he's a Scientologist. Then we found every single
member of staff they had, all Scientologists. - [Chris] Right. - [Adam] So we're like,
hm, that's a bit weird. I think, then we started sort
of reading more about it, and we're like, oh my
god, what have we done? - To begin with, I'm told, Adam and Donna remained
almost entirely in charge of the site's creative direction, although Dohring and his board
would become more involved as they pushed for something
called immersive advertising, a term they would go on to trademark. Unlike the advertising
you may have watched before this video, although, looking at our
stats, you probably didn't, immersive advertising was
meant to blur the distinction between a site's content and
the advertisement itself. Players would suddenly find themselves visiting the in-game Disney
Theatre with their Neopet before heading over to the McDonald's shop for a spot of lunch. And critics argued that
this was an unethical way of advertising products, particularly so when the average age of
the player base was so low. But it feels a bit of a stretch to blame that form of advertising
on Scientology, doesn't it? I guess we have to point the finger at, I don't know, capitalism there? But that's not to say there was not some internal
conflict over the years. - [Donna] There was one,
there was one situation, but it never saw the light of day, 'cause we killed that with fire. - [Adam] So, they brought over this lady called Janine or something,
I can't remember her name, and she was a Scientologist. Her job, she was brought in as head of education or learning. - [Donna] Yeah, education, yeah. - [Adam] At Neopets, and
her job was basically to use L. Rob Hubbard's educational thing and put it on the site and basically teach
kids about Scientology. And we went ape shit. - This idea never reached the site, but I was told about one obscure
reference to Scientology, which you can still find on Neopets today. Following the acquisition in 2000, the Neopets office was
based out of California, and it wouldn't be all that
uncommon to be sat there, working at your desk, and to glance up and see someone from
the board giving a tour. This might include the odd celebrity face, like actress, Kelly Preston, who made a couple of
appearances over the years, but apparently, there was a
group of three Scientologists that made a real lasting
impression on the team. - [Adam] I remember, once, these three, like three people came in and they weren't really introduced, and they just looked evil, you know, like the bad guys in
"Superman 2", you know? So we actually, we started
making characters on the site about these random people
coming around the office. The Three.
- The Three. - [Adam] It was just like, and the artists were
in on the joke as well. They were like, you know
those guys who came in? Those are gonna be bad guys now. - That's wonderful. In June 2005, Neopets
was acquired once again. Dohring and the board of investors agreed to sell their company
to Viacom for $160 million, and here ended the link between the site and the Church of Scientology. This was also a goodbye
for Adam and Donna, who sold their shares, too, and then moved on to new projects. But this wasn't the
last the pair would hear from the church, it turned out. Shortly after the sale, both Adam and Donna were invited to visit the Los Angeles
Scientology Celebrity Centre. Here, they were introduced
to Nancy Cartwright, who you might know better as
the voice of Bart Simpson, and then offered a full tour of the centre and its facilities. - [Donna] This was after the sale. They didn't do anything
while we were working there. - [Adam] As soon as we had the money, they were like, let's get 'em. They were trying to take us
to L. Ron Hubbard's office, and we're like, no, we gotta go, and just ran to the car instead. - [Chris] Is that like, is there a procedure to try
and introduce you to that? - [Adam] I think so. - [Donna] Yeah, I think we got the, you've got money, this is the way, 'cause they took us to
some fancy dinner there. To say we freaked out,
might be an understatement. - [Announcer] The office in
honour of the man himself. It stands as a permanent representation that this church is committed
to upholding his legacy for the benefit of the millions
who live and work here. (upbeat music) And that's the new Church of
Scientology of Los Angeles. - And that's the story of how Neopets ended up being run by Scientologists
for a good five years. This one, by the way, (Neopet sings) okay, we're turning you off now, this one's called Kacheek, and it's a sort of mouse type Pokemon. Did I say Pokemon? I meant Neopet, with glowing red cheeks, and often comes in yellow. I'm not sure where the idea came from. I'm gonna put him over there before I get myself in trouble. Yes, thank you for watching this video, and thank you so much if you're a Patron of People Make Games. We can not make this stuff
without you, so, yeah, we really appreciate it,
and we'll see you next time. Goodbye. (spooky music)
I had no idea this happened. I played Neopets back when I was in high school and I remember the marketing push they were going for later on that I didn't get to see. I kind of lost interest after a couple of weeks because the games started becoming shills for the latest movies and whatnot.
I could have sworn the origin of the alien neopet (cannot remember the name for the life of me) was rumoured to be a reference or based on Scientology, but I feel like he would have mentioned it if it was.
Definitely was an odd lore inclusion lol
Edit - I think they were called something like Grundos? Haha idk
did this guy seriously just give his phone number to scientologists? I hope it was a burner number...
I always wondered why Neopets hasn't (at least attempted) rebooted yet.
This must be why. They kinda got smothered in being irrelevant and time moved on.
I loved Chris when he was part of Videogamer UK it just wasn't the same without him. Then in Eurogamer he just was another voice in a pile.
Now i've just sat here and watched like 5 of these videos...he's good on his own really smooth way of talking and makes me want to listen to him.
How's Neopets doing now? Is it still even around? I should really check up on my old pets again if it is. I keep thinking they'll be dead when I log back in but they always seem to be still kicking. Might be fun for some nostalgia.
Thanks god for Runescape, I played Neopets and moved on to Runescape before the advertising stuff came in.
It feels like a site like Neopets wouldn't be nearly as popular nowadays. The internet and what people are entertained by on it has changed completely.
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