How I Turned $5,000 Into $2.6 Billion

what was the top Revenue year you had while you were running the company three billion how do you spend all that money I bought this goddamn airplane to be a big shot the next day the entire publishing industry in the United States of America sued me what was your expectation from the beginning I was in there for the money business people they say they love their business both you can't let that business own you you own it with that being the case was at all worth it today we are at the house of billionaire founder Paul orfila who sold his company Kinkos for over a billion dollars in this video we dig deeper into a story what it's like living the billionaire lifestyle and how did you take Kinkos from zero to billions in sales hi my name is Paul orfila I'm the founder of Kinkos that sold a company for not enough money not enough money yeah you never sold it for enough uh in 1997 I sold it to a firm in New York actually a bunch of dumps from New York uh they ended up selling for 2.6 million billion 2.6 billion dollars yeah the FedEx and then did you own a part of that when they filmed no I kind of got out of it by that they I they I think if you sell your business piece of advice is leave right away because it's like cutting the tail of a dog an inch at a time you're just there being tortured by having no Authority but a lot of uh aggravation and they've people when you sell your business they're more concerned with loyalty than performance and they fired really good people the new new ones from New York how much did you sell it for to help you uh we sold for maybe a billion and a half how was it to become a billionaire and I don't have that much now because I give it all away I'm doing a good job of giving my money away I don't believe it I you know there's so much need out there uh I kind of feel guilt written hoarding and having a much and I don't remember the possession freak contrary to what you might see here but uh but I'm not really a possession freak well maybe taking a step back so we'll get to the building and get to that part of the story but um how did you make your money the word the Kinkos yeah how do I make I was a saver my whole life I I'm not a very good reader and I had a lot of problems at school and uh I kind of figured out I'd have to do with my savings account with children you have you have your children ought to be successful in either one of two ways they had to be good in the school thing where they're doctor lawyer or something with their education or they may be good with their money and I was always saving my money and trying to figure out what to do with my money so I was a saver and and you made the majority of your fortune through Kinkos oh yeah if I've made other ways of making money too but I did that I'd love to hear well I've always vested in stocks equities and uh real estate I think when you start your career you have all your money in your business do you get a load or you have liquid instruments like stocks and bonds because the best way to destroy your business is not turning money into cash and not paying your bills then you get a little older you have a third year business a third and uh equities are liquid instruments a third in real estate then when you want to retire it's paid off real estate a little bit of stocks stocks and bonds and if you want aggravation you can still have employees how did you how did you take Kinkos from one store like how did you make it a billion dollar business uh we did when I left it was about three billion um how yeah I guess you know what if people ask you that how did you be when you're four years old how did you get to be 20 years old and so tall you just do it I mean it just happened every day I'd go and I try to make it better one of the things I've always approached my job as things went beautifully without me but whatever I did every day I made it better so if I didn't go to work things ran I had a system where it ran without me very well well I think for you it may becomes a little more naturally I think for there's a lot of people out there that are like I'd like to explore entrepreneurship I'd like to make a billion dollars or I'd like to have freedom and so I think it's more like you know to create a year Fortune you you found that there's this copiers and opening a bunch of stores for your copiers is a great way to make a fortune well I think when you go to someone's Soul the question is uh do you do you like to do everything yourself and you can you put up with a vagaries of human beings do you want to eat your alphabet soup alphabetically I wouldn't try to get an employee uh I was always comfortable uh with ambiguity you know well businesses everything I I dealt with in my business was an ambiguous decision if you pay people a little bit too much or do you pay them enough with the marginal benefit of a little bit more for health insurance how much benefit do I get out of that um I think goes back to microeconomics and we don't understand you make decisions on the margins and that's all the executive or the owner does is make marginal decisions and you make marginal decisions every day if you're driving the freeway at 65 your chance of getting a ticket is zero if you go at 90 you're going to get a higher probability we make marginal decisions instinctively every day but we don't think about it you know there's a lot of that I guess I'm so the Kinko thing like what was your expectation from the beginning like for example like when I started my company I didn't I just wanted to make a few thousand dollars and be able to live in and work the way I wanted well when I started I was in there for the money and it was always for sale you just I sold it in 1997 but every day that business was out there was for sale your business is an instrument to make you happy you own it it doesn't own you and uh it makes it's a fundamental thing I think a lot of businesses do is they business people they say they love their business you can enjoy your business once you love it you're losing your objectivity and you can't let that business own you you own it a lot of other people like so my father sold copiers growing up so we were like you know rabbit yeah yeah he had a competitor around it so as a kid would always go to different stores and everyone was around like facsimile boards or those back in the day but I guess how did how did you distinguish like Kinkos to be able to become a billion dollar business like there's a lot of other people competing against uh well every day I think you know experimenting how to try it my marginal cost was 17 cents I sold for a dollar I was throwing loose Nickels at things but what happens if you get a bigger business with like 25 000 employees they become very defensive and they do these stupid things called reviews and it becomes very punitive and uh I try to instill at risk taking more and more in the culture but it's it's hard when you get kind of uh executive executive items in there what was the top Revenue year you had while you were running the company last year I was there about 3 billion in paper sale and like copies and prints and posters stationary film processing uh what were some of the experiments you you enjoyed that worked that didn't work uh see I I'll start with I never gave myself too much to do and I was wandering constantly in every store my job was going toward a store looking for what people are doing right for an example we went I went to San Diego we went to San Diego and they did a calendar they took 12 pictures and put them on a calendar a color copier we sold thirty dollars they sold for thirty dollars in December and December's a lousy month that was a great discovery we exploited the calendars throughout the country uh one day when I first started I was in the reserve book room on a university and most people don't know what a reserve book room is anymore but it's where the professor leaves things on file at the Reserve book room and expect you to read it for the test well most people go the night before the test to get the book and it's not there and a flyer and uh I told the professors they could leave things with Fi on file with us as well as a reserve broker and the professors went nuts with the program and uh we expanded all 50 states and we were doing say six or seven percent of the textbooks at Ohio State I guess I'm trying to think of do you think anyone could become a billionaire well I'm not a billionaire uh did you become a billionaire no never I've never been one I've just giving away all my money but at the time like no never remember most people will brag about that I think you're just underplay it I don't I would that's I think I would say if somebody says that I just think of my children's security or being kidnapped or and braggadocious that's just not my nature yeah I don't disagree yeah because I my parents had a saying my dad made women's clothes and uh my dad would say uh your business if business is good complain if big if business is bad boast so uh I've always been leery of the boasters and then you know also if you're boasting and you have all these look at me cars and all that people are envious they're not really proud of you you're happy for your success they're a lot of times very envious and you don't want to As a matter of intimacy set yourself up as for jealousy and the uh Jewish culture and the Arabic culture they have the evil eye yeah you don't want to set up the evil eye how do you feel people reacted or how did you feel when you when that cell happened I felt great I got off my financial all my financial problems I'll tell you a funny story my wife over here bought a ex-wife it's about a TV cabinet for 35 000 and it always pissed me off that camera was so goddamn expensive I was very upset with the cabinet I was on Hawk Banks I had debt debt debt debt sold the business I'm happy with the cap I'm happy with the cabinet so you actually felt relief it's not like you felt relief from yourself yeah yes having to I I haven't I was I didn't like responsibility you know when you're younger responsibility is kind of cool then there's a thing called burden which there's a fine line responsibility is kind of cool then you get older it becomes a burden and I I got to that point in my uh on my late 40s I just didn't enjoy all the responsibility you know people they go to work with you or for with you you're sort of responsible for and you want to make sure they have health care and pension and you care about your people and not just the caring just got to me too much like I remember going to San Antonio and a woman had four kids and she was working in the store and I kept thinking how does she have it she's single how does she have any sanity so those are the kind of things that got to me but it sounds like felony made it made your life a lot easier oh yeah yeah I think liquidity and makes life a little bit easier not worrying about it paying your bills that's I had 30 years of business where I was worried about paying my bills and I got real tired of it I think that's I'm kind of surprised because like Kinkos is selling three billion dollars a year we expanded every year with internal money I never took outside money and uh we we were a sub chapter S and I was always expanding with my internal capital I never liked the I never liked the group investors I just don't trust them you know what an investor is he's Venture capitalists they're like a hitchhiker you pick up the next thing you know you need you run out of gas you need something and they take over the car do you wish you you worked less no I worked enough I didn't I actually uh that's a good question okay I worry if hard work is worried I was a hard worker but it putting many many hours at work I wasn't there I was always wandering and worrying that was my job was it worth it all the work and the worrying no at the time you could it was in my 40s I didn't sleep right my neck always hurt and I had bad gas now I don't have any gas I sleep like a baby and my neck doesn't hurt stress caused a little bit of problems what regrets do you have in the time well I was under so much pressure financially I didn't say enough thank you so I worked with really wonderful people and I didn't say thank you enough to him I see Deanna Dan and CeCe I think you thank them and I they're the president of the company and CeCe works very closely with me in my personal life but I never really thanked him enough what'd you say I have to say thank you but at the time I was not I just you know when you're in the middle of it all it's just hard to be grateful you're just so have so much pressure you're just like Hey we're focused on work here's things are problems we got no I was just internally focused on paying my bills and all that and I I was Joe veal and very convivial to the managers managers man they they did like me because I everything I did was to placate the man please the managers of the store with the executives they could feel my Fury a little bit I guess with that being the case was it all worth it oh yeah yeah I think I had two choices in life I could have been right here I am now or I would have been the homeless there's no place in the middle for a guy like me why well I can't read very well I uh second grade I flunked second grade and I had the blue palette my man she paddled the hell out of me third grade had to go to school with uh in Hollywood eight kids in the class two were 18 years old I kept thinking like why I'm eight years old why am I a school like this then I had to go to reading I had to go to eye doctor three days a week and finally my I learned how to read my parents said every word I have a red cost of fifty dollars and I graduated from high school eighth from the bottom of my class of 1200. and the United States draft is the reason I'm a college graduate plus I wanted to go to college it was a great place to grow up so I graduated what advice do you have for someone who's starting out that wants to be entrepreneur I was thinking about that well go to your soul and see if you really want it because it's a lot of sleepless nights and a lot of uncertainty here maybe you're better off just having a job but you got to go to your rubber ducky in your bathtub and say do I really want this aggravation it really is a lot of sleepless nights and how well do you deal with ambiguity you found out that you enjoyed it I had no choice oh it would have been nice if I didn't have so much uncertainty it would have been nice if you just went there and it just worked real well like a machine it didn't that's always interesting in business because I think from the outside we think it does like when you watch someone you're like oh that must be just perfect but I guess the inside no no no no no business is an art form if Da Vinci came back and say wow man I think I could have done some more pink in that picture a little more blue they're artists it's always can be done better then you're never done it's never perfect it can always be improved what was your first job what was the first like business you started the first job you had I uh went to the market and bought some strawberries and sold door-to-door it's about nine years old I just bought them at the retail store and sold them I always do a door-to-door stuff I respect personally that's my favorite if anything I like the best of sales how did you learn so I don't know you just do it sell newspapers you just us just I sold you know the Easter Seals for the Christmas stamps I used to hustle while I was in great School it just came easy to me I don't know how I just sold one thing I was thinking about for you is how many because you did you know you sold Kinkos for a billion and a half you don't like what I said I do all right my parents are my parents my mother and father would shake in their boots that they ever knew I was braggadocious about something like that I guess I've always thought that like what's the line between braggadocious and like being proud of what you accomplished like I think braggadish is like I made all this money and look at all these things and and I because I think for myself I feel similar where I'm self-conscious about it but there's a there's probably a fine line between pride and arrogance you're right but I I'm superstitious about taking myself seriously and when I do I always get my eyes kicked and you get you know an investment you think your dead mistake that's when you get your ass kicked when did that happen oh one day I had to get back to school in January and I had all the money I needed and the money I needed to get me through the summer and I'm driving back from L.A I live in Santa Barbara and uh think of myself God I'm doing really well I'm just myself the next day the entire publishing industry in the United States of America sued me and I thought man the next time you take yourself seriously you better not I thought it was just such a coincidence foreign just a lot every time in the stock market I take myself seriously and I think I'm gonna get my I just get my every time it's too good to be true I get my Escape buying real estate I bought a farm it's just too good to be true just always happens oh five star how about some Farm avocado thing up here I cannot imagine a damn avocado Orchard and the people came in and stole all my avocados I couldn't do it was a horrible thing and I yeah I had no business in that business how much was the fine oh at the time was about three million dollars and then what would you end up selling it for about three million yeah not so bad but it was that a lot of aggravation I think the part that you're saying that I resonate with is being mindful of your uh it's not bravado but having the balance of humility to being a beginner or being able to experiment and wonder and not thinking that we are so great and it's also good to be have some confidence though what you're also doing we're way down deep are you and my soul back when I started and I wasn't too confident I was always insecure and I was always paranoid about the guy across the street wiped me out always and I per most of the the people I worked with were in the business and they loved it I was always across the street looking at that that was my vantage point and I knew every strategic weakness we had that's where I spent my time fixing those weaknesses or removing just understanding them they're fantasizing what a competitor would do to kick my ass my dad was in a woman's made with dresses if you're in the fashion business you understand you could people knock you off that's a Cutthroat business you understand competition is out there to kick your ass so what do you do against them what what do you do against competition that's more I thought of me you have to you remember in microeconomics the definition of pure competition it was easy and exit easy entry and exit from the market a homogeneous product and price is the reason you bought well when I started the government up the street had a better contract for the Xerox machine they had subsidized labor at free rent how am I going to compete with a copy is a copy it's white paper on a bunch of crud a crud on a black piece how do I compete with this so I had outsmart the school I would look down at longer hours gave great customer service had synergistic products like binding and stationery with the copying I grew up on Kinkos it was cool to be able to that was awesome uh which store uh San Jose there's also there's one in I'm in Austin we have FedEx Kinkos it was good stores in Austin yeah San Jose we had good stores those are really good stores in Austin what makes it a good store that's what I had to study all the time I spent all my time in the good stores understanding why that's interesting I didn't go to the Past stores because if you have Executives to worry about the bottom 10 but I was always studying why someone was successful and I I was always studying Houston we had two stores in Houston I had bad parking both of them they were so successful what made a good store was the manager that morale of the manager man it was a manager-centric business and I could take a good manager and put up an ambassador and become a good store I could take a bad manager put him in a good store and become a bad story what made a good manager it's a kind of an ethereal quality I I could tell when I walked in the stores I could see it in the eyes of the workers I could just tell if I'm gonna have a good visit or a bad visit uh and then also I'd look in the little Sun text God damn it I got so many issues I have that business I was fighting them all the time you'd walk in the store my dad took me window shopping I understood what it was like from the window looking at from the Outlook and I that's my dad's vantage point my vantage point so you go to the front door and not travel them a bunch of senior people let's have them stop at the front door and I say now what is your sense of neatness and proportionality here it was did not contrast that to the cash register looking out for the cash risk looking out we were the most neat organized business on Earth but from the front door in we weren't I had a big battle with the field over that one uh just to get we were in that we were operating company that happened to sell and I wanted to convert US to a selling company that operated and uh that was part of my frustrations how many other businesses have you started because I think that's one thing that people miss out on but yes I'm going to keep saying because I think it's super cool but you still to come in for it did very well but I don't know if they hear all the other swings and things a lot of different businesses I had had a I did coffee shops espresso cappuccino before Starbucks and uh I was going to try to put them co-located with us next to Kinkos and then we did a 24-hour dry cleaners now wouldn't you go to dry cleaners where they spoke English and open 24 hours a day uh so I wanted to open up these trip centers where you had 24-hour businesses and uh but and then I started uh here I've been to Berkeley yeah do you know Top Dog yeah what do you notice in Top Dog small girls clothes did you notice how many people were in line it's always crowded that might be an indication of success so I did a I tried to knock off top dog here in Santa Barbara I screwed up because we did in the middle Skid Row I did data mining businesses I did I did so many businesses most a lot of them failed what are some of the other ones that didn't work or did work just trying to think of them all why am I stored a loose nickel at something I mean if that sounds like a good idea I just but most of the time it's the if it's a good person you will invest with them I did tutoring businesses to should I I can't think of them all if you had to describe how people should live their lives in decades how would you think about that because I have a good answer for that yeah my mother said honey in your 20s try everything in your 30s figure out what you do best and your 40s make money for what you do best and try not to do too much in your 50s and then another thing about your life is when you're in your 20s you really do care what people think about you you get to be 40. you don't really care people think about you then you get to be 60 you realize no I've thought of you in the first place Bob Hope said that that's interesting because you I feel like you would have succeeded no matter what and I guess it depends on how you define success too no I don't think so I was lucky luck has more to do with life than you we might think luck has a lot more to do with it what are some of the luck I've got oh I opened the first location that has a garage and it will happen to be in the main artery of the campus without luck uh the Publishers when I lost the lawsuit with the Publishers they had an injunction that I was able to stay in business uh they liked us uh oh just one time I was lucky I don't know there is like this sounds really weird but I was in the top a 12-story building and I was dropping Coke bottles on a Sunday uh down to see how they crashed because nobody was walking to the streets and say is something in my hand and right then an old lady walked by I would have killed her now you know something held my hand you don't call that luck or Divine Prophet I don't know it was kind of a I think there's an interesting balance on like where there is lack of timing and things that happen but there's also all the the worry and the Wonder and the effort that you did put in across I think the thing that I was trying to hurt other entrepreneurs too it's like I also I'm trying to hear from you you tried a lot of things and one worked on exceptional yeah right and but they don't hear about all these other reps um I see all these big shots they think that uh they built the business their customers build your business how well you could read a customer and I remember President Obama gave a great speech it was a bunch of business people I said hey by the way you think you built this business Mr business person didn't government pay for the education of human beings didn't we provide good roads then we have a way for you to have uh systems of shipping things and you think you built that business it was government a partner for you it was a great speech how I'm going to come back on this so you sold your company for some number that we're not going to talk about we're not going to call Oh I thought that was you uh you're still looking for a billion and a half how have you enjoyed the money oh it's easy what I enjoy is oh you don't understand the luxury of waking up every morning and not worrying and thinking about what you want to think about I like that part the best I wake up every day with a clean slate of something I didn't have to do yesterday or worry about yesterday's problems and I uh it's interesting I I'm going to talk about tenses and you have an organization the owners are in the future managers of the president and accountants of the past so I was always talk it's interesting to be in the future and worried about stuff tomorrow I like that a lot what are ways that you got to enjoy the money because a lot of our audiences younger people who aspired they I guess part of the question is they're like is it worth it to try to work my ass off to make a billion dollars and is that is that the life that people should is that a blue book because it was a billion dollars you know sooner or later you're going to wake up with yourself figure it out that's it comes from within and uh what's really sad is you wake up with all that same miserable person you started with you look at these movie stars they say to themselves God I got everything it makes me happy how come I'm still a miserable movie star that's so uh just kind of uh and I'm being smug about I've got enough money to live a comfortable life foreign you think so well it could be smug about it what are some of those silly ways you spent your money or most fun or weirdest ways that you've enjoyed or something like I mean you have a tank in your backyard I love it taking a police car but that police car out there cost me fifty five hundred dollars and the tank cost me eight thousand I'm proud of that I got a good deal on them uh what what other things like that I bought this goddamn airplane to be a big shot and that thing cost me more than the airplane because to be a big shot I had to have projects around the country flying constantly you know justify Big Shot airplane no that that cost me a lot of money more than the airplane a lot more being a big shot and when I sold the business I became a big shot and I did a lot of real estate developments I shouldn't have gotten into I started investing in equities buying portions of companies I shouldn't have been doing yeah so I uh big shot I just cost you a lot of money and I I don't know I didn't ever just didn't work how would you have done that over I would have been contented with just buying good old stocks and bonds being contented with the income property you have what was the plan or how much was the plan that Eva oh the plane wasn't but 22 million dollars do you want to hear a good story about that plane no I think we can cut I think yeah of course I think it's so interesting because people dream like it yeah you're cutting right now no no I'm joking I'm Joe duh like this is the super interesting these big damn companies are stupid if you know they're accounting procedures you can take big time advantage of them I'm gonna get back to the airplane but I used to go to Xerox and I'd say oh Xerox you've got this fantastic new machine I want to buy four 400 of them and I'll pay you the list price I'll pay whatever you want but all I want you to do is extend the service contract for four years and they would what's a machine a machine is just a damn bunch of metal all I want to do is get the copies at the end I can sell so uh they would give me the sell me these machines and I get four years 24 hour free parks and maintenance and I blast those things 24 hours a day so uh with the airplane this is during the recession when uh the bad Bush wanted to get reelected the boar Monger in bad bush uh he had 2004 50 depreciation so if you buy something you got to write a 50 50 of it so I went to the airplane company I said hey you know by the way I'll pay your list price just give me four years or three years of free service well an airplane cost every time an hour it cost three hundred dollars an hour for parts and tires and all that or 400 an hour I blasted the hell I had to pay for as much gasoline and I had a chartering business so I made some good money in the chartering business but uh that's why I bought the airplane but also I was on the airplane a lot being a big shot it should cost a lot of money you still have the plan no no I don't want to go anywhere I'm sort of like done with hotel rooms get tired try going to the bathroom and end up going to a closet in the middle of the night I just got tired of it I guess when I'm at this question might sound strange but are you happy today oh yeah happy super bad yeah I I you work out your demons as you get older you know you got a lot of internal demons everybody does in their 20s 30s and 40s but now I've accepted myself I think anxiety and ambition of their best of friends so I was very I had a lot of anxiety and ambition and the anxiety sometimes overwhelms you it makes you sort of introspective and insecure and I was rejected a lot in school I couldn't read oh I bad zits here I don't think the girls particularly like me and so you come from that background as a kid you still have that with you you know what's interesting you always have the 13 year old and the adult and they're always fighting the 13 year old is vulnerable insecure and the adult is always fighting with that 13 year old no matter what you do in life and finally after a period of time you get older you know how to put the 13 year old in this property place I think about that a lot just about accepting ourselves like just accepting whatever whatever way it is across the board for everyone it's hard it comes with time and age we have and then you got married you're not children yet after you've raised your children you could it's a lot easier because you know you've done the sperm bank thing coming back on the plane because I do think there's also some interesting pieces there what other other things that you you maybe didn't spend money well on liquor I drank too much uh uh my first wife was a good spender she spent money for all of us and uh my my Lord am I married to now I really admire because she's frugal and she manages her money and I do expect frugality how did your wife impact when you're running the company how did that impact positively or negatively and then having a family as well uh I have to say it bluntly but you're every time things got really bad she was the most difficult and I subconscious think that that wives do not want to be the nurture and secure person you're the breadwinner you better go out and kick some ass so every time you want to come home like a wounded little dog they're going to say not here you could out there and kick some ass so I think that's uh what happened but I I didn't necessarily have a when I was in business I didn't feel like I was uh nurtured but I don't think she should have done it she wanted me to go out kick some ass but it it inevitably when things get real bad I think your spouse isn't necessarily there for you and maybe that's justifiable who was there for you oh you know what a friend is a friend is somebody who's happy when you're happy and my parents were always on my corner and I had uncles and aunts that I knew they were always in my corner so I think you're family or it's finding people that are in the corner yeah my mother used to say a friend is somebody who's happy when you're happy because anybody can be miserable and you're miserable but how many people can you call with something really cool happens so they share your joy I think one of the things I've noticed in business for myself and others is like how much is enough and like there's this change I know I know but it's never enough it's just a game isn't it when do you it's just a game it was enough enough I when does Tom Brady say I've had enough of football I think one Giselle leaves him this year that's probably the last year what are some of your memorable moments for you during the Kinko's room I don't you know my heart I shouldn't say this 100 most my best memories of my life Kinkos isn't one of them I just remember always being stressed out and we're in and there's a lot more to worry in when you have your business and so I was ready for it to be sold a lot long prior tonight when I sold it did you have to I guess did you need to worry as much like would you have been a successful if you didn't do as much worrying I don't know worried and you see I had a lot of time in my hands I never gave myself too many too many things I had to do so I was always wandering looking at what people were doing right studying but in the middle of the night those bills were always there and I was always trying to expand faster I had money in the checkbook that was a problem what would you say is a top memory when I sold the business how's that that was the best day we looked at the cabinet I thought oh God I like this cabinet though how was it when you received the money that day like what happens like oh it's just your fork like yeah all the birds of the world just left how did that day go can you walk me through that day oh I took a walk and I was just like joyous and it was just like I could breathe again how did you celebrate I forgot I probably had a few cocktails maybe spoke to Joiner too this isn't it was in New York what was it in New York no I sold it when I was in California I've always lived in California Santa Barbara you've been it's a nice place I saw things like my favorite place on Earth yeah I like it here this is this is one of the better places I've ever been I've been here 55 50 years great place to raise your children it's funny because I was going to ask what's the lowest amounts of King is but I feel like there's you've had yes what are some of the lowest lower moments I got sued by the Publishers was the lowest and then they got the injunction against me that was a low moment what was the injunction again injunction was we got annihilated by the you know [Music] I knew I was going to get sued by the publisher sooner or later I didn't and if they we wanted him in the ninth circuit because they considered Californians in the courthouse like kind of like not more like Carefree the second circuit is New York and I never wanted to give the damn Publishers jurisdiction a second circuit but we we had that publishing program and we did the second circuit and they got me in their backyard and the judge just he just gave us a verdict it was in an injunction that she told the Publishers you can write the injunction and you know you remember regarding bill oh I forget the guy's name he saved my business his name was chimler he saved my business McNeill their report on TV oh what happened well he I went to a uh I was it sounds like a break I was at the White House getting a word for being a lousy student and Jim Lair was there waiting to see the president I went up to him I said you know I really liked your TV show about the your heart attack and the pastrami sandwiches and he said you know that's of all the things I've done on TV that's the one people remember the most so years later I got the publishing the Publishers sued me and they invited me to be given address to all the textbook manufacturers and Jim Lair was there the night before given the Keynote and he gave a plug for us and that's what I think saved my business because the next day I gave a speech said I'm so sorry forgive me I didn't know that Maricopa Maricopa Maricopa and they wrote an injection I could stay in business but I did have criminal sanctions if we screwed up again I could have gone to jail so what were you saying you're doing like copying textbooks or we were taking you know let's say I teach you on a little bit of this book this book this book it was called anthologies or they wanted to teach you or like in the case of New York we try to argue that one-third of Doris Kearns Goodwin book was fair use which was like that is legitimate taking of a book a copyright well we we obviously lost that foreign what do you think what do most people not know when you become very wealthy what because I guess I was wondering do people contact you a lot like hey Paul let me get some money or like do people say hey you should buy a plane now like what happens when you become oh so they ask you for charity or buggy a lot my favorite is do you care about the poor people the starving people Ethiopia like what are you going to say no I don't care about them or I care I don't have the money for them I can't cure that problem so uh that's some of the stuff you get or just some will do you mind if I talk to you about a business opportunity so I'm pretty good at getting out of work and I'm getting at it I'm pretty good at getting out of those conversations but I think it's a lot of nerve to ask me for charity some of these wealthy folks here ask me for charity I think come on you've got to give your own money and I have my own pet causes what are they my main is uh in California we have this horrible sales uh way of funding Public Schools the fancy one that is my neighborhood gets 37 000 per student per year two miles away is a school in a more impoverished area they get ten thousand five hundred dollars a year tell me that is in any way Fair so we try to equalize the the poorer schools we uh I have an ortho we have an orthodontist program where we help fix the children's Title One children's teeth and it seems to me that you have quality uh Orthodox or you can have happier life better and car less incarceration better college graduation Etc so uh we that's one of my pet projects I think maybe if I before I die I'd like to make sure every child has a pathway to orthodontia especially in The Superficial California where you are engaged by your smile yeah how did you raise your kids with them like how did you that's a good question yeah how do I teach my kids money skills yeah okay when they're six years old or five years old give them five dollars a week and they had to keep a log three dollars for spending a dollar for giving and a dollar for savings so if they would go like to some place and say Dad will you buy me the Coca-Cola I said yeah you got your own light why don't you buy yourself one they're selling no no I can't afford that and then they my wife was ex-wife was into the school thing which I wasn't uh they knew that I was about saving the money and what to do with your money as a child they would do a lemonade stand over here a lot of people do lemonade stands in front of their house they're stupid I put it right in front of the supermarket Mike we sold 200 dollars of the cookie I saw some of the damn cookies lemonade I just went inside and bought the lemonade from the market and uh I take them right away to the bank and I don't always asking about their savings I take it then when they were eight years old I haven't weren't a suit and tie and see a stockbroker and I'd left the room so the my kids fortunately have good money skills I think it's very important and a lot of parents aren't doing the thing about money skills they're letting the stupid grade the schools dictate their children's happiness 100. like I was raised very similarly where it was like we're gonna give you a bank account we're talking about money and it's just it's shocking how many people have no clue it's unbelievable yeah and I don't think they're Street Smart like they're you're on the streets of LA I was right in the middle of LA and you understand Street smarts of money one thing I was curious like how do you think did Legacy impact your decision making in your career yeah like how you thought you wanted to be remembered no I didn't care about that crossed my mind and I could remember anyway 100 years ago [Laughter] yeah I think sometimes it's like we're probably none of us are even remembered no I don't think that's what you live for and then you think of it all the universe and how insignificant we are on the universe I'd think about that sometimes what do you think uh what was it like before I was born and uh before I was born was there a god I don't whoever was I and then where am I going to be after I'm dead I hope there's somebody to go to but I think about that a lot of what Infinity is now Infinity could be one second in between one second is infinite so you could have Infinity of happiness or being with God in just one second I've been thinking about that lately I had like been I've I really admire people with a strong faith because it is a big comfort I get what do you want to happen or what do you think happened I'd like to go to financial heaven but uh and so if you get if you have ability to go to like an expression it would be nice I I you know what Christ said once that it's harder for a wealthy person to go to heaven than it is for a camel to fit in the eye of a needle so uh I kind of don't think when I look at these fancy churches I don't think Christ was in the fancy churches IQ is more like a down home uh hang loose I'm a forgiving type person I just don't recognize Christ and how the religious right review his presence I mean I just don't get it I'm taking a step back for someone how do you think someone today can become a millionaire if that's something that's what they're this is your eyes use your eyes and your intuition but unfortunately we're too damn rational a lot of times it's intuitive we don't trust our Instinct why does a customer want to buy something and uh I think a lot of people aren't cut out for their own business my biggest problem at Kinkos we had two or three workers in the store and the leader of that store knew everything about things I left a business with 40 50 workers in the location the leader of that business knew a lot about people not things some people feel comfortable managing things and some people feel comfortable managing people don't try to do if you're a thing person don't try to be a people person and it reminds me of the Maytag repair person the spouse will say why don't you come become promoted manage the other repair people and they have a nervous breakdown some people aren't cut out for it I do office hours on YouTube for free I'll do like uh once a month can someone asked my mom my mom likes showing off and they asked her they said do you think everyone should be an entrepreneur and it was the first time I realized that people shouldn't actually be it like it's really not forever like there's some people like honestly being an employee or working for someone else is actually a great thing yeah I guess I was assuming that everyone has a everyone should have a chance what I I stuck a course at Harvard for three weeks for three years and then they uh talk about like-mindedness entrepreneurs think everybody's like them but they aren't people like predictability which that would have been nice in my career how do you use curiosity to come up with business ideas and how did that help you come up with Kinkos well I was at SC and they were in line at SC making Xerox copies and I figured why I want the same people uh be in line in Santa Barbara so would that complicate it their line here their line here I didn't have to take a lot of LSD and ruminate over the damn idea what are you observing in terms of business ideas in today's economy oh there's so many but the kids are too highfalutin they want to do all these highfalutin things it's just down and dirty stuff like every time you park your car why is it somebody washing it for you why don't you go to the place and say I'll put a car wash for you charge of forty dollars you're going to lunch two hours later you get a car wash I mean why what's happened what's happening all that little Hustle so I'm uh yeah I'm a hustler I like to sell and I like to get down and dirty one thing I noticed with you in business and just and how you live your life it seems like you it I'm impression meeting for a few hours you like to inject fun and I also when I hear you talk what I admire is you talk about you know work-life balance as well as having fun with what you're working on not just like it always has to be a grind oh yeah because to be successful you have to have three things in balance work love and play and here it's a tripod if you work too hard your tripod's screwed up if you but you have to have a balance and I really did strive for a balance I I really enjoyed my children I played a lot with them and uh I didn't worry when I was supposed to worry at night but I when I was there I was there with my family how did you inject fun in the Kinkos oh it's very important in the culture alcohol um [Laughter] no because people loosen their lips and alcohol and that we would have a company picnic or five people throughout the country to come into the picnic and the theologians of the business woman making a convention it's a picnic a celebration every anthropological organization has a pig roast you know they do something to celebrate once a year and so it was just a celebration and uh most people don't understand also liquor is a great way to have intimacy and fun in a business that was something you used in interviews you said for job interviews I would always interview somebody I'd like to see and I'd like to see what they were like he's taking to dinner I'd like to see what they were like what they where they had a few drinks in Latin they call it in Vito Veritas and wine there is truth what other traditions did you have at Kinkos oh you have to have traditions um a picnic we would celebrate anniversaries celebrate a lot of things my the guy I worked with Dan Fredericks was really good about giving recognition I wasn't that good at it and it one of my Machiavellian scenes was give the glory keep the money people do a lot for Glory for recognition tell me words give the glory keep the money people look at the military they give you a stupid little feather and you can't wait to go out and attack a machine gun if you couldn't offer anybody 50 billion dollars to attack a machine gun how did you give Glory at King Cove oh a lot of recognition pins and uh memorabilia and plaques and all that they're very important in the culture of a business people really want to be recognized you also don't seem like you've and my person you don't follow a lot of rules or you don't want to be a part of rules as much I hate the rules committee yeah so you had a human rules team or I guess HR HR that was a thing that got to be so big it ended up taking so many desks and I never understood what the hell that we needed HR for and one time they came to a group of us like a board meeting and maybe there were 20 people in the room and the HR department came in and said oh we had zero lawsuits last year for the HR like firing people and stuff and everybody's going that's really good that's really good and I said I want to predict a bunch of lawsuits that means you're keeping a bunch of deadbeats in these stores I don't want that zero lawsuits but that's how most businesses they have edicts and they don't allow ambiguity it's I want a few lawsuits I tells me that we're sticking our neck out enough what did you guys get some lawsuits no I think the next year we had I don't remember but uh we were we were kind of a nice one of the things I regret in the old business is Candor wasn't important get along was too important we all got along so well and I don't think we were a candidate as candid as we should have been with each other just more direct and more direct and candid what the hell I wasn't but the people I worked with seemed too finesse full and too want to be liked rather than candid at the peak how many people were working there 25 000. it's a lot around the world how's that for you responsible you feel responsible when you you just feel responsible I can't my I had I smoked a lot of pot it's college and I went and saw my finance professor and I said uh you know all you do is make money make a bunch of for yourself and it just seems and he gave me that look like he will understand the responsibility you have when you have your own business it is so damn true you have people really rely on you and your representations you want to shake someone's hand and honor your commitments everything is easy to the person who doesn't have to do it you should tell me that all the time at work you don't have to do it how come it's so easy for you yeah what were some of the memorable customer stories or people you worked with stories across either that 25 000 or across the millions of people that shot the Kinkos oh my favorite story is I went to the Hawaii store I went the lady who worked there just drove me out of my mind and she had an affair with a guy at the downtown store and the guy at downtown got they broke up and he got fired and he moved to New Mexico and he works in a copy shop man he has an affair with the wife of the owner and they conspire to murder the father husband so he buys a knife she buys a knife and put on her visa card mistake so he comes out of the bushes in the park kills the guy knives himself with a groin and the woman from Hawaii calls me up and says David's been in some trouble in Albuquerque can you help him out murder one I'm gonna help out this guy yeah that was my favorite story how do you one thing I'm noticing is that people you know there's this this uh pattern of life like you work hard if you're an entrepreneur or not you can make a lot of money and then there's like the giving period like when you're giving away all my money yeah how do you okay so take a step using Brewster's Million what do you remember the movie Brewster's Million it's with Eddie Murphy he's got he's got one day to spend 24 out of uh one day to spend a million bucks or 30 million dollars but he can't have anything to show how do you spend all that money like how do you give it away like how do you even think about oh that's so easy there's so many Charities they're worthwhile um but how do you vet it how do you think no I I get involved with elementary schools and when we get involved we say every now every child should know how to swim 50 of the Latino community in my Latinos and my community don't know how to swim that's a sin they can go through grade school not know how to swim they know how to ride a bike uh they have it what school is so horrible about imagine you graduate from high school you have no clue of uh financial management you don't have a they eat garbage they don't have a good appreciation of nutrition uh they don't have conflict resolution in school are you going to get married you're going to have a conflict do you think you might take a course in it you should have a parenting course at school but yet the Pythagorean theorem is important how did you decide which ones to give money to and well I go to the title one school so there's a lot of impoverished people and you could tell by how many are on free free and reduced lunch and so uh you'll find them there's poor schools and so I we go to them and we have a commitment that they uh the orthodontia Etc and that they get to go to the same summer camp that the the one down here gets to go to the Montecito unions of the world the wealthier kids and we'd start with ropes courses like for an example I remember going to school I hated every human being in that school the first day of school but if you do a rope scores that means they do something collectively it'll help integrate you into the school let's go into something challenging yeah yeah what do you what are what do you think there's what are other counter-intuitive pieces about wealthy people oh I think there's a lot of inherited wealth that uh they think they deserve it my favorite is I work so hard for my inheritance they're politically conservative I just bought that really irritates me how you could be conservative going down the birth canal and hearing all that money are you what's the difference between an inherited wealth and a welfare chisler I don't get the difference look of a chisler a welfare I remember sitting in this guy has very wealthy man he inherit a bunch of money and he was talking about the welfare chiselers and I kept thinking well you inherited money what's the difference between you and a welfare person you didn't either one of you so and I found my worst landlords at Kinkos where children of wealthy people inherited wealth because I kind of think if you inherit money it's what how much you lose not how much you make how do you spend your days and then when you wrap up I go to breakfast with my friends I have a workout at 10 o'clock I go to lunch maybe take a nap in the afternoon or watch TV I don't have a lot of I'm I'm really good at getting out of work I don't have that much to do I teach school at USC in Loyola I've been teaching for 30 years and I like teaching but I don't have to it's like they come to my it's sort of like they come to my living room and I have a meal for the students and we just visit and I have a few canned lectures I canned things I want to get across but everything I I everything I teach is how to ask a question life's about questions not the answers so they go around the room and everybody I give them a newspaper article usually things in the newspaper or the news are ambiguous situations and so they ask questions sort of like an editorial board you know when the editor goes to the newspaper people like Google will this event happen 911 how would you cover it so everybody gives her idea of what article they would write about 9 11. that's sort of how I do it yeah I guess a final question for me what makes a great life oh family I think family and children you know what success is success is when your children want to be with you when they're adults good success how many people could have all that and the kids don't come home for the holidays come on you've been called my whole life the most cool thing I've ever been called in my entire life is Dad if you like this video you are going to love this video right up here where I knock on Millionaire's doors and ask them how to get rich and make sure to subscribe the channel if you haven't already Uncle Noah loves you and I'll see you out there

Channel: Noah Kagan

Views: 3,061,426

Keywords: paul orfalea, kinkos, entrepreneur, billionaire lifestyle, billionaire, billionaire interview, entrepreneurship interview

Id: uDeNOa6tiWc

Length: 63min 12sec (3792 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 21 2022