How Feedback Affects Performance - Andrew Huberman - Growth Mindset

[Music] welcome to another episode of after skool I'm  Andrew huberman professor of neurobiology and   Ophthalmology at Stanford school of medicine  and the host of The huberman Lab podcast growth   mindset is the idea that we can get better at  things that is that our abilities are not fixed   but rather that our abilities are malleable and  the beauty of growth mindset is that it forces   es us to step back and ask ourselves some simple  questions these are questions that you could ask   yourself right now and in fact I highly recommend  you do you could ask yourself for instance what   have I been told I'm really good at you should  also ask yourself what have I been told I'm really   poor at that I'm just not good at what have I told  myself I'm really good at and what have I told   myself I'm really bad at and then a second set of  questions is what am I good at and why did it come   naturally to me did I apply myself for many years  meaning did I apply a lot of effort to learning   that thing or perhaps both right and then it's  also important to ask yourself why am I not good   at other things is it simply because you've never  applied yourself at those things or is it because   you tried and had an early failure or perhaps you  tried and tried and tried for many years and you   continued to fail at that thing or you just didn't  reach a level of proficiency that made you want   to pursue it further in asking yourselves those  questions you are asking yourself not just what   you're good at and bad at and why you should also  be thinking about where the messages of being good   at something or being bad at something arrived  from did they arrive from outside you meaning   from your parents from your coaches from your  teachers or was it the case that despite a lot   of positive feedback you just sort of decided you  weren't good at something or conversely was it   the case that despite a lot of negative feedback  that you would never be good at something or that   you weren't good at something that you continue to  persist because there's certainly people like that   the more negative feedback they get the more they  dig their heels in to prove themselves as capable   of becoming good at something so I do recommend  as we March forward in this conversation you think   about those questions what am I good at what am I  bad at why am I good at those things why am I bad   at those things and ask yourself to what extent  your labels that is your identity is attached to   the things that you are good at or bad at and  the reason I'd like you to ask yourself those   questions is that next we're going to talk  about research from Dr Carol D's laboratory   that was really the seed of the entire field of  growth mindset it relates to a specific set of   experiments that really show that the specific  feedback we get meaning whether or not we get   feedback that is attached to our identity like  a label like smart or great athlete or talented   sends us down a very different path of performance  in the short and long run as compared to whether   or not we receive feedback that's based on effort  meaning you tried really hard or you really seem   to apply yourself under conditions where you're  getting the right answer over time because you   simply refuse to quit those are two very Divergent  sets of feedback and as you'll learn in a moment   the sorts of feedback that we get especially  early in life or early in an Endeavor so this   doesn't just apply to young kids this applies to  adults too who are taking on a new skill or are   trying to expand on an existing skill those two  Divergent forms of feedback get integrated into   our core beliefs about what we think is possible  for us in a given Endeavor and the great news is   we can also modify those core beliefs simply by  changing the feedback that we give ourselves the   research paper I'd like to discuss briefly that  beautifully embodies the runway that led to the   discovery of growth mindset is a paper from Dr  Carol dck as well as her colleague Claudia Mueller   and the title of the paper essentially says it all  the title is praise for intelligence can undermine   children's motivation and performance right that  should be surprising that praise for intelligence   can undermine motivation and performance I  would have thought and I think many people   probably believe that if you tell a child or an  adult that they're really good at something and   you're genuine about that feedback meaning  they're performing well and you say great   you're doing really well you're so smart you're so  talented that their performance would continue to   improve that it would bolster their motivation to  engage in that activity which hopefully they enjoy   that it would serve to encourage them right the  kid thinks not only am I engaging this activity   but I'm getting positive feedback presumably from  people that I care about or whose opinion I care   about wouldn't that serve to elevate performance  it does not in fact the exact opposite happened so   I'll just give you a few of the key takeaways from  this study the way it was done is very interesting   they essentially gave feedback about performance  that was linked up with a child's intelligence   telling a kid they're smart they're talented  that they can learn things really easily or   that they're very good at learning this sort of  thing and they called that intelligence feedback   or they gave them what was called effort feedback  the simple way to think about effort feedback is   that it's more attached to verbs as opposed to  labels so effort feedback consists of things like   you tried really hard on that problem it was great  the way that you applied effort it was great the   way that you persisted it was great the way that  even when you got the wrong answer you spent 10   minutes thinking about it and then you tried again  and again or in some cases even if they didn't get   the right answer telling them well even though you  didn't get the right answer it's really terrific   that you continue to try Okay so intelligence  feedback was the sort of feedback that was tied   to labels of identity things like smart talented  Etc whereas effort feedback was tied to verbs   choices behavioral and cognitive choices that  children made in an effort to learn or get better   at something so in this study which included over  a 100 children they either got the intelligence   type feedback or the effort type feedback or  there was a control group that didn't get either   the intelligence or the effort type feedback  and then they looked at a number of different   outcomes so I'll just highlight a few examples  of what they found first of all the kids that   got the intelligence-based feedback when they were  then later offered problem sets that were either   challenging or were of the sort that they knew  they could perform well on they tended to select   problems that they knew they could perform well on  these where what were referred to as performance   goals in other words they picked problems that  allowed them to continue to get the praise that   they had received previously about being smart or  talented whereas the kids that got feedback about   their strong effort when later presented with  problems that were either easy or hard more often   than not they pick the harder problems that stood  to teach them more so that strike it says that   if you tell a kid that they're smart or talented  and that's the reason why they perform well when   they encounter challenges they are likely to go  with the least amount of challenge so that they   can continue to receive that praise or feedback  whereas if you receive praise and feedback for   your strong effort then later you tend to pick  environments problem sets Etc that allow you to   exert the very effort that got you the praise in  the first place so in both cases these children   are essentially attached to to the praise right in  some sense I mean we like to think that they enjoy   these activities and they're benefiting from them  as well but in both cases the praise really serves   to reinforce a certain pattern of behavior but  in the case of giving intelligence feedback the   kids are really just trying to reinforce being  told that they're smart or talented as opposed   to reinforcing the engagement in the activity  that got them the praise in the first place and   the converse is also true when kids are told hey  you really tried hard and that's great or I like   how you persisted or you're so persistent I can  really see how persistent you are in trying to get   the right answer even if you don't get the right  answer well then when you present those kids with   additional challenges they work very hard to stay  in Challenge and guess what no surprise the kids   that are rewarded for effort and that continue to  pick harder problems outperform the kids that are   given the intelligence praise and feedback by  a large margin so what does this tell us this   tells us that the narratives that we hear from  others of course reinforce certain patterns of   behavior what else does this tell us this tells us  that if you're a parent or teacher you have to be   very careful about giving feedback to a child that  is attached to their identity around an Endeavor   especially if they're performing well at that  endeavor right now of course if a child is not   performing well at something you also don't want  to tell them that they're stupid right you don't   want to tell them that they're deficient right  but that's a rare occurrence in the classroom   one would hope that's a rare occurrence par on the  field one would hope but what's very common very   very common is that when we see children or adults  performing well we tend to give them identity   labels as a way to try and reinforce whatever  Behavior we observe and we like now the other   thing they looked at in this study were the actual  raw performance on cognitive problems and these   data I must say are just so interesting they took  the kids and they gave them all the same problem   sets and all the kids AC Ross the board whether  or not they were getting intelligence praise or   effort praise or they were in the control group  were performing more or less the same way they   were getting some of these questions right some of  these questions wrong then they gave them praise   after they completed those problems they either  got intelligence praise you're so smart you're so   talented or they got effort praise you tried so  hard you really persisted that's fantastic then   later they gave them another set of problems and  they looked at performance now remember the first   time around all the kids got some of the questions  right and some of the questions wrong so there's   room for improvement for everybody what they found  was absolutely striking the kids that were in the   control group so they didn't get any specific form  of Praise they perform more or less the same way   as they did before so if they were getting 75%  of the answers right the first time they got   75% of the answers right the second time the kids  that were in the intelligence praise group their   performance went down significantly whereas  the kids that were in the effort praise group   their performance increased significantly okay so  this is a biral effect where giving intelligence   praise reduces performance and giving effort  praise improves performance which is absolutely   striking and tells you everything you need to know  which is if you're a parent you're a teacher and   of course as we all give ourselves feedback  rewarding yourself for effort is the best way   to improve performance rewarding yourself based  on identity labels so smart so talented you're a   great athlete Etc all that stare in the mirror and  do self-affirmation stuff can actually undermine   performance and in fact it does undermine  performance it may not do it right away but   eventually it does and in a moment I'll explain  why the other thing this study looked at that I   just have to mention is this notion of persistence  so remember earlier I said that the kids that got   intelligence praise tended to pick easier problems  down the line whereas the kids that got effort   praise tended to pick harder problems it turns out  that the kids that got intelligence praise also   tended to take on fewer problems overall they  tended to limit the total number of challenges   that they engaged in whereas the kids that got  the effort praise that you work so hard you're   so determined that was so impressive how you just  kept going even when you got some answers wrong   those kids not only opted for harder challenges  they not only performed better but they also took   on many more challenges so these data really make  clear that the effort praise is the way to go now   I know many people have heard this whole thing  about don't reward the person reward the effort   reward the verbs as I'm referring to it but it's  actually pretty rare that we hear effort rewarded   in everyday settings and it is very common for us  to overhear intelligence praise or Talent praise   you know a kid comes home with a trophy and  we tell them you're a great athlete right kid   comes home with a great report card you you're so  smart congratulations a kid comes home with some   sort of win in their world and we tend to give  them a label because we like to think that that   label will get internalized and they'll start to  view themselves as a winner we tell them you can   do anything you're a winner you're a winner and of  course you don't want to tell children or yourself   or any other adult you're a loser right we do  not want to do that you don't want to undermine   performance that way but it's very clear based on  This research and a lot of other papers similar to   it that we all have a giant blind spot sitting  in our psychological field when we are getting   and receiving praise that really it is the sort of  Praise that attached to the very efforts that led   to the results that will lead to even improved  results over time okay so this paper is really   truly important it's a landmark paper in the field  of psychology motivation learning and performance   and that's why I'm discussing it in such detail  here but it actually includes one additional piece   of information that I also think everyone should  know about and that is the tendency for children   who get intelligence praise to misrepresent their  performance on subsequent efforts what do I mean   by that in this paper they had the children  perform on a given task and then they either   got intelligence praise you're so smart you're so  talented or effort praise you work so hard you're   so diligent and then they had them do a series of  other tasks and then report their results to other   kids and what they found is that children who get  intelligence praise when they need to report their   scores either by walking up to the board and  putting a little Mark where their particular   score is or telling a another student what their  score was or even writing it down on a piece of   paper covertly so that's it's not visibly being  compared to all the other scores the kids that   got intelligence praise tend to lie about their  score and as you could imagine they tend to lie   in the direction of making themselves appear as  having performed better than they actually did so   this is a pretty Sinister aspect of intelligence  praise that we don't often hear about even if   you've heard telling a person that they are smart  or talented can ultimately undermine performance   rarely if ever do we hear that telling someone  that they're smart or talented can increase   the probability that that person is going to  misrepresent their performance in the future   whereas the kids that receive the effort praise  do no such thing they Faithfully represent their   performance so just to illustrate how important  the findings in the study really are the paper   was published in 1998 but just two years prior  in 1996 there was a survey of parents asking to   what extent do you believe that intelligence  is fixed and 85% answered that they thought   that intelligence was fixed that means they  believe that the brain was sort of a vessel   of fixed size that of course when we're born  into the world it's kind of empty we don't have   any knowledge but that the job of schooling was  to teach kids things and reveal an intelligence   capacity that was innate and that couldn't  be increased upon whereas nowadays we really   understand mainly through our deeper understanding  of neuroplasticity and how the brain learns that   indeed the brain can learn and that intelligence  is not fixed however in 1998 when these studies   were done most people were of the core belief that  intelligence is fixed that it cannot be improved   upon and these results really drive home the  fact that the type of feedback we get about our   performance even when our performance is good  can undermine our future performance or if we   receive feedback of the effort praise type the you  tried so hard you're so persistent type that our   abilities can indeed improve and when you look at  any intelligence test if you look at a standard IQ   test or you you know go way out onto the other  end of the Continuum in terms of intelligence   testing you look at emotional intelligence it is  very clear that anyone and everyone can improve   their scores on those exams and in fact can  improve the various aspects of intelligence   because in fact there are many different forms of  intelligence through dedicated effort I know many   of you are listening to this with an eye toward  the tool tools meaning you want to know what the   tools are that you can Implement well earlier I  had you ask some questions what are you good at   what have you been told you're good at and how  did you arrive at being good at those things   I also encourage you to think about what you've  been told you're bad at or less good at and what   you tell yourself you're bad at and less good at  and how you arrived at that conclusion right now   I'd like you to ask yourself what is your typical  narrative when you are engaging in things that you   believe you are good at and what is your typical  narrative meaning your internal dialogue in your   head when you're engaging in things that you are  not good at or if you're not engaging in those   things when you think about engaging in those  things and the tool that's very effective to apply   even just in your own mind is to start shifting  your narrative from those performance narratives   towards effort related narratives if you attach  effort verbs to why you got good at something   as well as why you are not good at something  well then there's only room for improvement   thank you for joining for this special episode of  after skool if you'd like to learn more tools for   mental health physical health and performance  check out the huberman Lab podcast which is   available on all platforms YouTube Apple  Spotify anywhere podcasts are found also   check out huberman lab on both Instagram and  Twitter there I cover science and science-based   tools some of which overlaps with the content  of the huberman Lab podcast but much of which   is distinct from the content of the huberman Lab  podcast we are also huberman lab.com that's our   website and there you can find links to all of  our social media and all of our podcast episodes

Channel: After Skool

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Length: 18min 21sec (1101 seconds)

Published: Tue May 28 2024