Home Automation Hangout 2023-08-06: Live PCB design: Kayo PnP protocol converter

[Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] well it seems that Pete is hungry today so we've got to be careful of Pete the food police he wants food and he wants it now you've got to wait a couple of hours Pete it's not lunch time yet well good morning all You Beautiful People um first though I acknowledge the traditional owners of this land the wedge of nunga peoples I pay my respects to their eldest person present and to Aboriginal elders and peoples from other communities may be taking part in this live stream today so thank you all for coming along who do we have lots of people I just saw a move from see on good morning Peter Keith Michael Gavin oh Keith okay I've got a um a video Keith could you please say in the chat if it is okay to show that video that you just shared with me a minute ago um Michael Gerald's here David Russell chip is here Paul cable tie oh thanks for calling in yesterday cable tie that was cool to see you uh David is here David crisp uh is it time to free the Magic Smoke um no I don't think we're going to be doing actual Hardware today Johnny Justin C uh after I install food says Michael Delaine good morning okay cool thanks Keith and David K Paul Gray Celtic Beast uh okay so uh last hang on I've got it all right I need to also pre-warn you when maybe 10 minutes before the Stream I was actually a little bit prepared and I grabbed my microphone and hooked it all up turned everything on and then I looked at it and thought why is it showing red on the battery on the receiver it turns out that I'd forgotten to turn it off last time so the receiver was flat and I've I plugged it into a USB cable so it's had a few minutes of charge and that's it so it could die it is showing no it's showing about a third battery so it charges pretty fast problem is if I leave the USB cable plugged in to charge it it makes a horrible buzzing sound on the receiver so I can't do that roles you were browsing internet today good hang on just a second that's better and David crisp said food repository not found damn that was for sudo apt install food uh no Hardware today what type of electronics channel is this I'll see I know I am an eternal disappointment to myself and to others as well that's just the way it is so um before I get into other things okay a couple of random little things before we get into this I um I got a very interesting question David hopefully it's okay to talk about this as well so David asked a couple of weeks ago sometime recently I mentioned the shore flap uh cat flap which has got an RFID reader built into it and the idea is that if you have a cat with a microchip implanted in the back of its neck the cat door will read that chip and let your cat in or out and not the random neighbor's cat that's trying to get into your house and there are a couple of different models of the shore flap available they come uh there's an Ingress management version where it's got an RFID reader on the outside and so it'll only let your cats in and you can manually enable or disable exit so you can say for example uh you turn the little knob and then cats can come inside but they can't get back out again and uh the um I think this is stretching my memory because this is years ago there I think there is also a version that has dual RFID readers one on the inside one on the outside so that you can also have selective exit allowed for cats so if you've got multiple cats and ones an indoor only cat you can make sure the cat flap won't open for it but it will open for another cat that has a correct ID okay so uh I've talked about that a little bit and I won't go into the whole thing with that and the injury that one of one of our cats got several years ago but David sent me a an email asking about the um about what I had done with the cat flap and I thought yeah his email made me think that would actually be a kind of interesting thing to talk about and the what I can do the thing is that right now so I don't actually live at that house anymore my wife and kids live there but I don't live there and I just saw Johnny's comment um yes Pete Johnny says Petrus shut up until he actually posts memes in his meme Channel yes um so and the only cat that's living there is indoor only which means that cat flap is not even new so it hasn't been used for a couple of years so perhaps what I could do is pull it out and bring it here and we could have it on the bench and open it up and have a look I think it'd be a really interesting thing to investigate because it's actually kind of home automation related unlike a lot of the stuff I talk about and we could look at how the RFID reader works and what mechanism it uses for unlocking the door when it detects a valid code and how they managed to make it run for so long on some batteries I think from memory it just takes double a batteries or something oh cool David says actually disassembled one the other day until heaps of photos fantastic so uh oh the second board looks crazy hard ah that sounds like a challenge just a second my throat is still not 100 yes okay so hi Justin C said two double A David says four double A yeah probably different models different um errors or versions or something I have a vague recollection that mine had two Double A's in it but it probably depends on the model so I think that'd be a really cool project like a bench project here that we could investigate and stick the probe stick the oscilloscope on things and see what the RFID reader is doing that would be very cool so David thank you for that idea that is um that's a really good thing to investigate now what was the other thing oh yes the or maybe it was four Double A's yes I can't remember oh Jimmy says hello I am present of YouTube account now uh present are you saying you're you have a YouTube channel I'm not sure how to interpret that sorry Amy uh so now the other thing was where do I have it here among these various windows okay here it is so Keith sent me a video that he recorded behind the scenes at the while I was finishing the live stream it would have been a couple of weeks ago three Sundays ago two Sundays ago something like that which was when the last barbecue happened dodgy good morning uh so oh yes oh gee I know I'm jumping all over the place right now because that's how these streams always start but um dodgy I have questions about your mower I want to see more and I also have some comments about your um about the frustrations with your YouTube channel uh yes I understand the frustrations so I don't know this is kind of a bit baffling for me hang on I'm going to pull this up so the uh sorry Keith arrived a bit early uh a bit early last time for the barbecue and was helping do some setup and get everything ready and he recorded this video so this is for those of you who are curious this is kind of behind the scenes you can't quite see it but well you can see there's a gap in between those two monitors my camera the one that I am pointing to right now is it's hidden by this left monitor but it's actually looking out through that gap between the monitors and you can see my main monitor at the bottom I've got the two 27 inch monitors above on either side of the camera and this was me talking about pick and place feeders so Keith recorded a bit behind the scenes while I was doing the live stream so that's what it looks like when I'm sitting right here at the desk doing a live stream uh and David cases needs more monitors yeah what I well what I would really like is to replace these two 27-inch monitors with another 49 inch Ultra wide so I'd have two stacked Ultra wides but the downside of that is that there would not be a gap in the middle right here for the camera to stick through what I would have to do is separate the monitors a bit with a gap so they'd sort of curve open with a gap in the middle and try to fit the camera lens in the space directly between the two monitors but that would be cool all right chip says we were there that day too yes you were um so outside the box and Imogen and we're both here that day as well um Justin csis I love that the 27 inch looks small yeah it's kind of weird you um you see photos of my desk like if I share a photo of my desk it looks like I've got these two tainted little monitors up there and you don't really get the sense that yeah they just look small because they've got a um that's like a 42 inch TV um up above them and that's a 49 inch Ultra wide below so there's a lot of screen space Steven says the problem with the 49s is that they're so expensive that is correct they are very expensive per pixel if you look at what it costs for 227s which is exactly the same total resolution compared to one 49 inch Ultra wide the ultra wide will be like three times the price of buying two 27s but it gives you that totally seamless experience of a huge Monitor and you can put Windows right across it with no gaps and everything yeah oh dodgy yes you got it exactly right so dodgy says yes we looked at them they were a thousand plus dollars we picked 232 inches from Aldi for 199 each that's right so for 400 bucks you get two big monitors that um possibly makes more sense but yeah uh so where am I where am I all right we are going to do some fun with PCB stuff now were there any other I have a feeling that there were some other squirrels I needed to very briefly Chase uh uh what did I miss in the chat oh that's right yes yes that's right so dodgy um yeah so doji has been working on a both terrifying and inspiring project for a while which is a homemade lawnmower and it is a thing of beauty um and has been doing videos about it so if you want to check out um his progress on that I'm sure he would appreciate the views on the videos because it's um Johnny says dodgy's project is terrifying yeah it is it's um it kind of reminds me of a battlebot Battle Bots are one of those things that you look at on TV and you think oh yeah it's a thing that moves around but if you actually see one of those things for in real life they are big they're heavy they're fast there is no way you'd ever want to be anywhere near one when it is powered up and doing its thing they are just yeah David Christmas says we'll sort out the safety concerns before we take it to Market and dodgy's mower project reminds me of that it is very solid ever a very solidly welded steel frame with really big wheels on it and it looks like it's um yeah it looks like a really serious piece of engineering not dodgy at all and Johnny says I think dodgy's mower can kill any battlebot yep um what am I doing okay in fact so in a recent video dodgy made some uh comments that were along the lines of not feeling as worthwhile making YouTube videos because he gets so few views on each one I'm just going to fine oh look I've just gone to YouTube to um to find dodgy's channel and I can see oh there's this super House TV is currently live maybe I should watch that um Goji Brothers engineering I can't even remember if that's what your channel is called dodgy oh there it is I think that's it yes that's the one I'm subscribed to anyway yeah so this um this one is uh where am I gotta find the right button to press yeah so you can see here no longer worth the effort is the um the title on that and uh so my advice to you dodgy oh thank you Johnny just dropped a link in there as well uh is so I went through this as well um early on and ah I suppose you have to think about what is the reason for oh look you can see some of my subscriptions down here um what is the reason for making the videos I could I'm trying to I'm trying to resist turning this into the whole subject of the stream today because I could talk about this a lot from my own perspective and of course I can only expect from my own perspective and um sorry I'm just getting distracted by the chat again um I'm I'm not really the person to give advice about this because I have stopped making um proper edited videos of the type that you're doing dodgy for some of the same reasons that you talked about so I'm not really in a position to give you advice to say yes go on keep going do it even though that's one I want to say because I know how hard it is and the effort that you put into creating a video and then feeling like there was no point or why am I doing this and the um the way I the way it worked in my own head for for so long is I would never I would try not to hope for anything so I would make a video and even if previous videos had done certain number of views and there was a reasonable chance that my next video would do you know a similar number of views there was a chance that it wouldn't and sometimes you have a couple of videos that would come out and they would do fairly well and then you put out another video and almost nobody watches it and you think why am I even bothering like what's the point and I think you have to do it if you're going to do it you have to do it because you want to you want the process of making the video and sharing it with your friends rather than treating it like a a business or a game where you're trying to maximize the numbers I mean for many people of course it is a business and the objective is to maximize the numbers but for me that's not been the case and uh yeah the amount that I make out of it from YouTube ads and things like that just doesn't make it worthwhile there is no way it is worthwhile unless you're up in the millions of views per month sort of region there is no way that it is economically viable to spend your time making YouTube videos compared to just doing your work and being paid for it or whatever else uh Johnny says my first video got seven million views kind of pointless trying to top that that's amazing yeah um oh Amy said this is how I feel about the small business I started that's a very good point this is not a phenomenon that is limited to YouTube sorry so the rest of her comment I would take all of my handmade costume pieces to all sorts of markets most often I would not even make um enough to cover the stall cost yeah and so then it becomes a question of are you doing that or running that small business I'm just checking the battery and also if my audio cuts out someone please um sorry I'm just going to plug in my backup microphone so it can be charging at least so that I'll have at least one microphone that I can switch to so if I suddenly go silent I will pull out the um the microphone that is in there now and switch to a backup microphone so yeah it all comes down to are you doing it because it's a business or are you doing it because you are recording something to share your fun times and your creations with your friends and I think that is really the mindset that I approached it with it was a case of I'm doing this anyway um and I would and I want to show other people and give them ideas and maybe they can give me feedback and that's how I end up talking to all of you I get all this good feedback which is great so uh what am I doing this all right let us know I didn't want to do a survey for Fusion 360. okay all right yeah oh Johnny said this is coming back to Johnny's comment about his first video got seven million views kind of pointless trying to top that I'm curious to know what that video was if you feel like posting a link to it Johnny I want to check it out yeah that is how that's how a lot of things happen a lot of of big channels end up having some event that kick-starts them or that takes them to a new level and that is true at all the sort of different scales I had I had a couple of videos that really did that and it was oh there's a video on the Volterra PCB printer okay cool I did a very quick off the cuff video many many years ago which was called something like controlling an RX8 from an iPod Touch and this was when my RX-8 was modified I had a Mini PC in the boot and I could remote start it and unlock it and unlock it and all of those sorts of things and get Telemetry coming off the um the engine management system and I borrowed my friend Andy's iPod Touch connected that to Wi-Fi on my house and then the car was connected and I took a video where I was just pointing the camera at the iPod and clicked a button and the car started and unlocked and all of that sort of thing and it ended up being picked up on something I don't know I think it made it to like front page of Reddit or something and then once that sort of thing happens you just get a ridiculous number of views you get a big bump in subscribers so it can be single events like that which are unexpected and you can't plan for or you can't force it to happen that then takes you to a point where things ramp up so dodgy it is quite possible that sometime you will do a video you'll do a series of videos you'll be doing videos do a video do a video each one gets a few hundred views and then you'll do a video that might who knows what it is it could be the first time you have your mower autonomously driving around and someone picks it up and sticks it and on Reddit or whatever and all of a sudden you've got a million view video it happens it's just you can't plan for it you can't force it to happen it it's just the way the weird randomness of the universe works okay uh oh cool Michael says there's stuff you can do with can bus and a car is mind-boggling used to do Telemetry in linfox trucks and army unimogs nice yeah um okay all right Johnny has posted a link to his video too nice past 7.7 million views that's great so now back to this okay so open KO what am I looking at here now I've got to get myself back into this mindset open manage libraries to download and use these libraries for some reason um uh Fusion thinks each time I open this project it thinks that there are libraries that need to be updated or downloaded or something but if I go into update available nothing everything is updated maybe it is that there is a library that isn't downloaded but then how do I I used in current design okay is this going to show me anything well that shows that they are all in use and all downloaded so what is it complaining about I don't know weird thing going on in its Library manager all right so where am I I'm going to come back to I've got to manually select this profile which is very annoying so where we left things was uh let's see where shades yeah where we left things was with the schematic I think in reasonable shape if I remember correctly so the first sheet has the power supply portion of it so we've got um power coming in we're talking about 12 volts coming in from in this case what sort of connector is that I can't even remember screw terminal that's right I decided on a screw terminal because this is going to be a sort of semi-permanent installation type thing rather than an xt60 connector and so we've got power coming in we've got the um diffused but otherwise uncontrolled 12 volts coming in here and that gets passed through to other things on the on the can bus as we'll see in a moment you'd also come through to the 5 volt regulator which is the LMR 38010 which is my current favorite voltage regulator it's a Pity that it can't do a little bit more current if we if this could do maybe two amps this would be amazing but the um the part number the 380 10. what that signifies is that it can accept an input voltage range from 3 volts to 80 volts and at 1.0 amps Max output hang on I just got a cough again okay and I'm just moving the um the microphone receiver to a spot where I can see the screen more easily so that it'll become more obvious to me if it suddenly turns off hopefully I will notice uh the note about r13 is doing my head in says mike where is this r13 64k9 says frequency to 400 kilohertz uh that is that because r13 is actually R15 all right let's fix that uh 13 we'll make that R15 yeah Mike now are you feeling a little bit happier oh that's got to stop doing that I'm in the habit of just hitting command s all the time to save all right now thank you yeah that's good uh yeah Mitchell says the LMR can do one amp apparently so quite a lot of power for internal stuffs yes exactly so for power on a board where you're powering like a microcontroller and some basic peripherals and things this is perfect so that's why this is my current favorite switch mode regulator and it comes in a stoic 8 package with a power pad under a thermal pad so it's very easy to work with at 400 kilohertz it needs a reasonably small inductor the inductor has a smaller footprint than the soy gate significantly smaller actually as you'll see on the PCB so you can use a 33 micro Henry inductor I think I this particular part the VLS 5045 I think is rated to 1.5 amps or so it's basically an inductor that is perfectly sized with a little bit of Headroom to work with this so where do you get out of this combination of things the LMR 38010 and this inductor and the supporting Parts is a quite efficient switch mode regulator with a very wide input voltage range so we can stuff up to 80 angry volts onto the input side of this and get 5 volts out at a pretty decent efficiency so I like it then that goes into the 3.3 volt regulator which is the classic linear reg the ap2112k which can only do up to 600 milliamps and that is supplying the 3.3 volt rail so we don't actually need the whole one amp um okay capacity on this except that we have a 5 volt thing that comes off for other purposes now this is where it's a slight limitation so if we didn't have a USB hub on this board this regulator would be perfect and just over the last little while I've switched to using this regulator on a whole lot of designs I think I've got it on about six different boards that I've done in the last month or so and but this is the thing this five volt that comes out of here is also the 5 volts that goes to all of our Downstream USB devices which means we if we have a camera plugged in here the camera can pull a few hundred milliamps and we might have an Arduino plugged in here for the feeder controller now that'll have its own external power because it's got to run Motors in the feeders and all sorts of other things yeah I just need to check something out I was just hearing weird sounds coming from my 3D printer so I'm going to walk over here and have a look I don't know it all looks good you know that sound when a 3D printer has got a little blob of something that's stuck on and their head is knocking against it and it makes sort of like a crunching noise as it goes past it that is the sound I thought I heard and I thought the print might have been stuffing up but no it all looks fine I was probably mishearing all right so uh oh Mitchell says the LMR 38020 can do 2 Amp oh but check the lm5149q1 it can do 5 amps with same input specs at 89 efficiency and that is a that's a really interesting find so maybe what I should do is get some LMR 380 20s which I guess are probably on the same footprint and then um we would have plenty of Headroom so oh Amy said random question how often do you have your 3D printer running recently a lot because I've been doing feeders for the pick and place machines and brackets and modifications and things to get the Kos working so yeah it's been running a lot it goes through periods where it may not run at all for weeks and weeks like maybe even up to a month it just won't it won't do a single thing and then there will be periods where for a couple of weeks I'll just be constantly running it it'll finish something I'll pull the piece off start the next job and that's kind of how it is now so oh that was a funny comment him he said Peter Lawler nice Turing test yeah am I real or am I an AI and yes asking for proof of life actually it's gruel for it and check out web bench okay so Mitchell says actually it's gruel for you another time check out webbench.ti.com you put in what you want and it gives you the chip in the circuit or um efficiency specs and a whole lot really awesome Tech TI has yeah cool okay uh so groovy now without me looking it up since you have just been looking my assumption is that the LMR 38020 has the same footprint as the LMR 38010 and if that's the case uh I could just do this and order some and hopefully everything is good is that the case oh and of course I'd need to check the specs on the inductor so let's um let's check that inductor I wonder if there is another one that is um data sheet inductors here we go three three zero data sheet what's it rated to 1.3 amps so it's not wide up there what I probably want to do yes the footprint is the same thank you Mark's lab for confirming that uh uh Max lab I don't think I've seen that name in the chat before welcome so okay so we can go for an LMR 380 20 on here I just need to order some I've got some 380 tens loaded in the pick and place machine but I can always do another feeder or just put them on by hand so the yeah I'm going to need to check on an inductor rated up a bit higher than that because this one is only rated in fact let's uh uh let's do hang on guys before doing that I'm just going to open a couple of things so I've got some references here in just a moment because we are about to get to some PCB routing once I stop blathering about the schematic but this has been useful because I had never even looked at other [Music] foreign okay do I have audio do I have audio it looks like I do according to the video meter but very high uh uh okay I'm going to turn that off yes no we can't hear you hey the audio is still broken can't hear anything okay okay one two I can see an audio level ah see you on thank you for letting me in on it ah yeah I can see the Vu meter jumping up and down all right I'm gonna turn that off I'm gonna plug that into charge okay back back now oh all right oh that was not good we're real professionals here all right so what I was in the process of saying I think is if I have to replace this inductor with one that is a bit physically bigger it's not going to be a problem because of the way the board layout works I've laid out a few boards now with this voltage regulator and there's a bit of space around the inductor there's room to breathe there's room for it to grow so that'll be fine not a problem all right so if I can find an inductor like a 33 micro Henry inductor with the same sort of resonance and a higher basically all the same specs but a higher current rating like a two plus amp inductor I will go for that okay so then we have our USB hub we have the Upstream Port here which is going to go to the computer running open PNP we have the two USB hub which is just a USB 2.0 adapter and then we have some Downstream ports so the first Port is our internal Port that goes to our microcontroller and we've got a couple of exhilary ports oh and during the where are they right here a bag arrived during the week because I ordered some of those USB sockets these are PCB mount USB I always say the wrong thing every single time I believe these are USB a they're the little flat ones which you can plug a a classic USB socket in on the USB plug into okay if I put LMR 38010 into element 14 I get nothing am I doing it wrong David asked that's a good question I think I got mine from digikey they are a fairly new part so um yes yeah Mitchell says Google it yeah I think it's new enough that it is not in all the suppliers yet I mean when I say new I don't mean it came out last week I think it might be a year old maybe something like that you know it's reasoned enough that the copyright on the data sheet is you know 2023 or 2022 or something Cheryl says Fonzie USB USB a Okay so we've got our Downstream Port so those sockets that I was just showing you that just arrived that is this one right here this one u s b okay so that is the USB a socket and there is another one there now on to the other sheet which oh well I can do some routing even though I haven't actually done all these pin assignments that's right I remember now where we left it was go away sheets how do I hide those sheets I don't know where's the little clothes thing on it there I think that was it yes I did where we left it was I needed to do some assignments and I actually did do a little bit of homework last Sunday after the stream because I was kind of in the zone what I did was go away and look up some of the i o pins that I wanted to use I wanted to I want to do all of this on the stream so I don't want to um do a bunch of work and then come back and say okay this is what I've done I want to actually do this project on stream so I did not connect any Nets I did not make any other changes all I did was look up some i o pins and figure out what should go to what now we can ignore that I think yes we can so it should be possible to just hook up some Nets and uh that should be pretty straightforward but what I'm going to do because I do not want to go through and yet another stream without doing any routing is let's have a look come on change uh what's going on in here now those connections so connecting for example um kotx and KO RX Etc to Nets in here are no other parts involved this is purely I open assignment now was there a pull up I'm pretty sure I made some notes what did I do with my notes I don't remember uh uh yeah just keep the carrier cereal yes all right Peter's Gonna Keep that quote in his back pocket for the future all I did was cheat in John Oxford 2023. strapping resisted sheet says wagon loads yeah and Steven says with the S3 you can do all your programming by the USB so you don't need the programmer serial just the KO cereal yeah so what we've got here is D plus and D minus which are the USB connections and that is what we can use to do the programming and that so D plus and d d P1 and dm1 are the first port on the USB hub so when this thing is plugged into a computer it'll appear as a USB hub with the esp32 S3 connected to it on the first Port via these pins here so you'll be able to plug it in and program it directly through USB says did I put the other mic on charge yes I did it is charging and in fact it is up to like a quarter battery to charge already uh yes so what is the battery on this one oh this one's on like quarter ah we'll get through it I hope I need to have a wired mic connected um I have a couple of wired mics here including one that was donated um a couple of years ago and I really should have it hooked up ready to go on the second input Channel because anyway I don't want to chase that squirrel right now that is um that is an infrastructure thing for me to fix later um oh dodgy says huge thank you to the five new subscribers assuming they just came from John's shout out um cool oh Wayne load says I have a USB mic never needs a battery yeah yes so where am I looking that's right I was looking at this so we've got some Nets here io43 txd0 rxd0 I can't even remember where they were going but just to satisfy myself I want to do a little bit of routing so because I want to play around with using Fusion 360 . part of the point of this exercise is because of all of the kerfuffle with my Eagle license which is now rectified I now have full Pro features and everything again that's what my what prompted me to do this little experiment so migrating this project from Eagle to Fusion 360. and I also want to do an experiment with doing a project in keycad 7 but that is not this one this project I am going to um I'm going to use this as my experiment in uh in fusion um so what I've got is let's um derp that way yeah so what we've got here is the LMR 38010 or 20 now that it's just been upgraded it's got a 100 performance Improvement then um the inductor stick them next to each other so the way I normally do this is um uh that way that yeah it's kind of a little bit yeah there it is you'll see what I'll do is I'll just arrange this in the way that I typically um do or that I have done with other projects in the past um that will stick there that'll rotate like that bring them up a bit closer um and then we want some other uh what have we got PTC PTC what are they why do we have I can't remember did I put ptcs in each of the downstream lines why are there two ptc's there from 5 volts oh yes I think I did so come on show Why is my errors I found show why can't I do that that's annoying that's a feature that I that should have been working um okay so PTC PTC uh then let's grab some somewhere around where did all of the big caps go let's um let's just do some Rippy yuppies here get rid of this because all of this original layout this was copied from something whatever this project came from in the first place let's just get rid of that and then come on I really want to show because I want to be able to show you the whole that's the yeah no I want to click on the air wire and show the net why can't I do that Fusion that is really annoying can I do that in keycad if you want to show a net that hasn't been routed in keycad can you click on an air wire come on and have it highlight that net because Eagle does that and if uh uh hmm if I can't do that in Fusion I think almost that alone would be a killer can you click on the pad and have the net highlighted says Stephen yeah what I'm trying to do is highlight no no View show that is the tool that I want see I've selected the show tool and I can't still if I click on an object like on a via or on the origin of a part so that shows the part but it um I can't click on an air wire that's really annoying so I assume that I can do this show V in plus oops yeah that works I can type the show command in but I want a tool where I can just click on stuff and highlight the net if I can't do that that would well and truly suck all right let's get back to let's get back to business um so I want what's this one on what Nets is this on five volt yeah let's take that one stick that one yeah about there somewhere that'll do all right bring it down because I I need to stick a via in about here somewhere uh and I want a hundred nanofarad cap where is a yeah this is not very well grouped these parts are all over the place because they all just got dumped on so somewhere there should be if I go back to the schematic this would be the sensible way to do it I'm jumping around all over the place so the sensible way to do it is to actually get the parts that I want so oh no I don't have a hundred nanofarad on the input side that's interesting I usually do on this particular circuit so uh I could stick one in I don't know if I need one um I probably don't 10 microfarad yeah let's let's do it come on move move why can't the move tool select you uh all right I am slowly becoming less enamored of using Fusion 360 in this way all right let's just for Simplicity is there 100 cap around here somewhere find one point one microfarad wide yeah this is obviously copied from it an old schematic because I don't do that anymore in fact what even what library is that from Super house discrete semi okay that's weird 0.1 microfarad should be 100 nanofarad all right I'm going to take that stick that in there yeah oh okay yeah this is a changing behavior that is biting me so um where is the command to tell it not to uh not to maintain the angle oh it's over here there we go that's what I'm looking for so I don't know where things are in in Fusion 360 so I'm going to stick a net from there to there net from there to there and the lazy way to do it is that okay now because the designators are large that's ugly need some cleanup but now at least we'll have a um there it is now we'll have a 100 nanofarad cap oh and that can go there move that one down there okay so how are we doing what am I going to Route this with um do I want to maintain angle what are the options here let's just give it some large-ish I just think so I'm going to go from here I'll drop down to bottom layer and we're there yeah that'll do and then come up to the top layer I'm gonna use this is just a um a feedback Let's uh let's change those bias to be 0.5s so I'm kind of just rambling but what am I doing what am I doing that's going to be ground that's ground so I don't care about routing that that's ground don't care about that these two together that is going to be there all right let's um and this is just like a yeah that doesn't need to carry a whole lot of current but what I want to do now is put in some fairly large tracks like 0.8 maybe let's see that'll do boink and take that to yeah there and from there too there yeah that'll do all right and then I'm gonna do something a bit odd here I'm going to do that and then take this down to the Joint in the middle just so that we don't end up with any thermal relief on there I just want uh large tracks so then let's stick some thermal wires through here uh uh what is the where's the tool place place hole can I just insert a via somewhere route fire yes okay oh it's not allowing me to put it in there but if I do this and then set the name on that via to the B on the ground net it'll no longer be an overlap and then I should be able to come on copy that stick it in there there there there let's move that one stick it in there okay so we've got four or thermal stitching buyers there and it looks like we have a whole lot of unrouted stuff but that's basically just ground connections so that oh and I also want where's my route tool there I also want that all right so this is I'm just gonna leave that hanging off there that I'll do for now so this is the in this is where power comes in and let's move that down a bit and make a bit of bring it in a bit closer I could bring this in closer it ends up getting pretty close to the pads it doesn't have to be that close all right uh right now what are people saying I'm being rickrolled hmm all right so the question is uh uh yeah so this is coming back to the question about keycad because I really do seriously want to try keycode for a real project like a recent version of keycad uh so this is the question about highlighting Nets so David says in kikaid you can select one of the destination binding points of the unplaced net and right-click net inspection tools highlight net okay cool thanks David so if I'm sure it won't work that way in here but if for example I wanted to do this I could right click on there yeah and the way Vision Works is very different with its tool selection so I can't do that uh hmm David K says in cake head in keycad I view the air wires as kind of background info and more rely on building actual wires Plus checking the DRC frequently okay yeah the way I approach this normally is I will Shuffle parts around to minimize the length of the air wires so if I just run a um no I did not want to rotate I want info yeah okay so that was A Rat's Nest and then I'll do a rip up so what I do is move parts around and use the air wires as a visual indication of whether they are in proximity or not so at the moment over here you can see there's a big mess of air wires and you can look at this and say for example well that uh air wire there indicates that this needs to be in the proximity of this pin and that airwire indicates that this should be in the proximity of that pin so what I would do in this case is I would grab these things and start sort of moving them around which one is that okay so I'll stick it there and that one is to get bare and that one oh that one needs to be in the proximity of that pin and you can see that these air wires do not overlap which means the routes are going to be able to pass directly so on that one so if for example I had it here say I did this the air wires indicate to me that I'm going to have a routing problem here because this pad needs to go to there and that pad needs to go to there so then I can just go I'll stick that one over there and that one over there and that one there and with a couple of minutes of shuffling around the idea is to minimize overlaps and distance on the air wires so that you end up with the parts in a um a reasonably sensible what does that leads to oh that's all the power stuff yeah you end up with a moderately sensible starting point as a layout now there this is an indication of a problem an inconsistency that I would then start fixing up as well you can see there are 322 picofarad caps and one 15K resistor so that is probably not how I'd end up arranging that but that's the general idea is start shuffling based on minimizing um airwire distances so where does that one go where does that one go somewhere like that so I'm not even paying attention to what the circuit is at this point I'm just you're there just shuffling to make the air wires make sense and that one has something to do with that now a lot of the time in most circuits a lot of ends so you can see that these are all connected to ground so there's an air wire there so there are a lot of air wires in this area that will actually just be ground connections and we'll go onto the ground paw so you don't actually care about them so I normally do this exercise on top of a PCB area and then I frequently do A Rat's Nest which eliminates all of the automatically connected air wires yep um oh David says there's also right click select all tracks in net select all tracks to the name that the air wire is for nice yeah well that's basically what you can do in Eagle just by clicking on it it highlights and it highlights in the schematics simultaneously so you can click on a net in the schematic and it highlights on the PCB and vice versa um but it's just different approaches to doing things and it's good to know because when I get to doing this in this is the thing is that switching tools it's very easy to become frustrated when you're trying a new tool and it doesn't work the way you expect it to so I'm I try to approach it with the mindset of it's not right or wrong it's just different and if something doesn't work the way I expect it to it could be because of my preconceptions with using a different tool and so I just need to figure out how it how it's done in the new tool now uh what was I doing okay let's um all right let's just make this a little bit more sensible I'm going to stick all this stuff up over here and do that yeah there is a whole lot of Legacy routing here that just doesn't matter I'm going to get rid of hang on why isn't my rip up tool working yeah rip up yeah oh yeah there are some little frustrations Happening Here with um not being able to select things okay so can termination uh yeah I don't care um let's just give ourselves a big chunk of PCB to work with move group drag that out there and grab is that and move that in here so what I'm going to do now is just mess around with the um the power supply part of the circuit so if I run a Rat's Nest and then rip it up come on rip up then you can see that we that's kind of it there are no air wires left um so that little functional block is kind of complete now there would there are going to be there's going to be a big electrolytic capacitor and other things nearby to this as well but this little functional block is kinda reasonably complete and it's just chucked a whole lot of air wires back in place because I moved something until Rat's Nest it and rip it up but what we can see here is we have V in coming in on this side and we have um 5 volts the output here on this top side the high side of the inductor so this little block is our functional 5 volt voltage regulator block now somewhere around [Music] where is it that will be our why isn't it showing the value um these will be the um oh that's not what I expected at all that is a 48 megahertz oscillator I was I thought that was the 3.3 volt regulator where is the three point oh there it is 3.3 volt regulator is over here okay with a whole bunch of thermal grounds and other odds and ends with it so let's oh come on what hip-hop object incomplete connection signal uh rip up object all incomplete connection signal I don't want a refuge signal well this is interesting that it's got all these options but if I select rip up all and then click on that what happens nothing if I select click up rip up object oh oh must be like undoing Rat's Nest I've been totally ignoring my chat I've just been talking to myself um what is going on oh David K says the concept of net doesn't exist in the schematic tool though that's interesting isn't a isn't the schematic nothing but Nets hmm uh oh wagon load said are you gonna put the SP on the edge so someone wants to use Wi-Fi the ground plane won't make a microwave oven yes Peter yes we are mutual we're in the mutually ignoring Society yes over here you can see there's a little cutout on the ground plane there the um the fiberglass for the PCB is still underneath it and I could cut that back as well so if I run a Rat's Nest you can see that the ground plane is pulled back from that point and you can see some thermal stitching there so what's actually going to happen I'll rip that up again is let's grab the um the Vroom S3 it's going to sit about there in fact right there we'll probably um the board's not going to be this big but that is ultimately what's going to happen is this cutout may end up being in a different place so part of it is that this is this was a PCB that I copied over from something else and the previous PCB had a traditional room 32 e on it which is uh like the the classic esp32 base thing and I just replaced it with a um with the S3 module so that pulls the plane back around back away but it may not end up being on this edge of the PCB so it's kind of premature to for me to stick it there but anyway it's as good a place as any for it to live for now so what I need to do all right uh what I need to do is create a few blocks so the first block that we've created is this one this is the 5 volt regulator block and then work out where those blocks are going to sit relative to each other but that is going to be partly dictated by the connectors so this is kind of going to be an outside in design process not an inside out design process there are these USB connectors these are the USB I connectors there's a can bus connector there the what is this one I don't even remember oh yeah kind of important this is the connection to the KO big and place machine we've got the Upstream USB connection here and what else we have power there must be a power connector somewhere and that is going to be um about there it is there's the power connector all right so what I want to do this is my general plan this little group here which is the 5 volt regulator so that is now kind of routed as a sub module I'm going to shove that aside so I'm going to Route several little sub modules and then shove them aside out of the way and then we'll work out where the connectors need to go so let's integral it's um just grab these random labels and things that don't actually uh come on where's the thing for that made in Australia can bus yeah that'll do um Okay so the can bus connection what I can do is route that directly behind the connector Piezo that can just be shoved off for some their blur off for now so I think the next the most complex sub module to Route is going to be the USB hub so let's have a go at doing that so I'm not even sure if all of these parts are associated with it because things have kind of got moved around um but let's find out oh and there are a couple of bees they're poly fuses hang on come on all right I'm going to go back to the schematic because I just want to check on what's going on with these poly fuses oh yeah okay so this is F1 and F2 on these two USB outputs so these are the downstream external USB outputs and we've got poly fuses on them which was suggested by someone last week very sensibly now where is Upstream so Upstream 5 volts at the moment that's right I never actually got around to sorting this out did I so Upstream 5 volts that should probably come go through a poly fuse as well to protect the Upstream device so what I could do is um I'll copy one of these poly fuses yeah that one that'll do and I'm just going to plonk it there for now move that come on move oh come on move yeah uh five volts yeah get rid of that and stick a poly fuse or in there put a nap into that and from there to there and move this here so that it aligns with the other power rail above it um now that I'm kind of inclined to do this a little bit differently I don't know this is not really a um in fact I'm going to just to be different well not just to be different there is actually a reason for this what I'm going to do is take this here add a net and I'm going to stick a label on it make it 0.05 and [Music] uh flag style and stick it on here come on why is that not oh it's because I closed that dialogue that's something I've got to get used to don't close the dialogue because then the tool stops working there we go so I'm going to is this going to take it off that net yes it is okay so what I'm gonna have to do is explicitly name that net I'm experimenting with this I don't know if this is a good idea or not what I'm trying to do is just show that this is a 5 volt source so 5 volts comes in from here goes through the fuse and then because it is going from left to right it's like Power is coming in from here into the five volt rail so the way I kind of mentally think of it is with a supply symbol like this this is like a power source we're getting power coming from the 3.3 volt rail through here coming in onto the vdd pin on that particular thing which is that 48 megahertz oscillator so power going out of here this could be just a 5 volt Supply symbol but it's not a supply in that it is not being supplied to this it is being consumed from this so anyway it's just an indication of the fact that the current flow is out in the right hand Direction uh oh I can load asked um oh Steven says PNP reverse voltage protection on the USB input side so you don't feed back into the computer yes good idea that's right that was mentioned um that was mentioned last time as well uh that is true okay I will get to that let's get back to writing other stuff so wagon loads can you highlight the parts in the diagram and see those highlighted Parts in the second board layout are in fusion and Eagle you can yes and I don't know about keycad that's a question so if I pop out um but let me pop it out yeah okay so if I pop out the PCB window this is going to be very awkward on this screen but I'll see how I go with it all right so now we've got part of the schematic visible and let's pick well it doesn't even really matter let's pick something that's really obvious the 5 volt rail so oops let's go to do uh let's go up here all right so that we've got the voltage regulator part of the circuit visible there now if I go back to the schematic and I use the view tool and I click on ground you can see that it's highlighted the oh I moved off it you can see that it's highlighted the ground pads on the PCB layout and now if I that's weird I'm dragging and I should be dragging the schematic and it's dragging the PCB instead the focus was in the wrong window all right let's try no it's still doing it I can't actually drag in the schematic window while the PCB is visible alright so back to the show tool and if I select the 5 volt rail in the schematic you can see that it's highlighted five volts in the PCB View and I can do the opposite so if I come into here and I use the show tool and I click on the five volt rail it's a bit hard to tell but it's highlighted in the schematic and if I click on VN well you can't see a v in there but if I click on what else oh well that'll do you can see this is not the same part of the schematic the schematic is not the same part of the circuit so we've got the five volt rail in common and that's about it but if I highlight something in the on the PCB it also highlights on the schematic and I find that incredibly useful because normally I'm not doing this on this single little monitor like this I normally have this on the 49 inch monitor and I'll have the PCB and the schematic open side by side each one the equivalent of a full monitor worth and I can select a net in one and have it highlight in the other so let's redock that window but oink and re-maximize that window well not really maximize but you know what I mean difference in terminology between Mac and everything else uh now what do I want to do that's right what was I doing I was messing around with this so hmm uh where did okay let's do a little bit of moving and dragging stuff around it so this is the 48 megahertz oscillator so it's got the clock signal that comes out here going into the clock input on the uh The Hub chip we've got the 3.3 volt rail common to both of them right there ground and whatever that is what is that it's got to connect to this looks like it needs a um okay yeah that is that's a resistor which is associated with the oscillator so whatever that net is oh I can't highlight it ah annoying okay so if we go back to the schematic and why can't I drag oh there we go okay now I can drag again yeah so that is oh it's the output enable Okay so we've got to pull pin three on the oscillator High and that 1K resistor is just an output enable on that no problem so that is the up well that is the output enable on the 48 megahertz oscillator all right now what do we have so we should have so we've got four ports on this USB hub and what we should have is like a little block of components that'll be the same on each one because if we go back to the schematic you can see here oh come on let me drag why can't I drag the canvas there it goes again niggly little annoyances okay so we've got this thing we've got a couple of 22 picofarad capacitors so we've got a capacitor and a resistor on the plus and the minus USB lines and then we've got resistors in series with them going to the USB hub and that pattern is repeated you can't quite see it because my stupid face is in the way stupid face um but there you go there's the there's Port three and then Port 2 and Port 1 has some of the same Parts but it's missing some because we're not going to an external connection that's just an internal device that's part of ourselves so what that means is that the routing around this should be reasonably repetitive and you can see here for example we've got these 22 picker farad capacitors and if we find more of them there's a there are a couple more 22ps so let's um shove those more over here oops over into the proximity of where it should be there's a 22p what is that connected to I don't know um any more 22p why is that one there oh this is where I want to highlight this because I want to be able to just click on this this is actually a really frustrating thing this is a major limitation of Fusion Electronics compared to Eagle I can't click that unrouted net that airwire and have it highlight all of the associated pads um dp0 so by saying show dp0 but why should I have to type that one I should be able to just click on it and have it highlight everything and then I can see and then because I've moved it's all disappeared but let's do that again all right so I've got that pad that pad and it's got It's coming down here sorry so that pad and that pad Okay so what I can do is grab that and that they should all be associated um yeah this is going to frustrate me about the way this works so yeah I am definitely going to look at keycad what where does that go why do we have oh I know why it's because that goes there that goes there all right now what we need is we actually have a couple of things in parallel we've got a 15K if we think back to what the schematic was doing in fact I could make this clearer in the schematic let's do this I'm going to move I'm going to LeapFrog a couple of things I'm going to LeapFrog that to that do that and that and come on that but then that has that Trace has to cross so let's I don't know how it's going to handle that I can fix that easily enough though that's better all right so what we can see now what this makes more clear is that we have a capacitor and a resistor in parallel and then another capacitor and resistor in parallel I'm just going to move this one across so that we've got room for all the designators make it neater bring that across okay and I don't like the fact that they are sideways come on I need to change the grid and put these designators in places that uh that make the whole thing a lot neater yeah it's getting there anyway it's not great but it's getting there I think I'm going to play around with neatening up this schematic at some point just fiddling with it until it looks the way I want it to look and maybe there all right but anyway the point of all of this is that what this is making clearer is that we have a cap and a resistor in parallel a cap and a resistor in parallel and they're coming off the plus and minus lines and they all go to ground which makes routing reasonably easy and then we have a resistor that comes off to the uh to the connector so yeah now we've got an inconsistency here I don't like inconsistency I really do not like it gotta have come on select that select that select that and another net in here yeah and right now everybody is thinking this is why it is so rare for me to do live stuff because you can see how jumbled and random my process is it's um why doesn't that move I click it and it doesn't move and then I click it again and then yeah it's it's pretty good but there are some rough edges on Fusion Electronics compared to the way um Eagle worked like the way the selection tools and things work all right and now this one is inconsistent all right I'm going to move this I'm going to make you wait while I do this oh come on because it um because it annoys me oh that's gonna be close to there I don't like that um [Music] hang on vertical alignment on all of those this is where I need the large Crosshair um come on select it come on select it this is where I need the large Crosshair curses Okay so um okay now we have some consistency a little bit more at least and then back to here now we have a 15 pic of error oh sorry a 22 pick a ferret and a 15K hang on I'm going to rat's next that because most of these are connected to ground all right oh come on move the canvas you stupid thing oh you can tell I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with this let's put all the ground on one side Which side will we go for let's go for the right just because current should flow left to right convention 8.1032 millimeters can't have that all right now 15K resistance where does this one want to live it wants to live right about bear and that 15K wants to live right about there is where I want to highlight this net I mean I can see here that this is the 15K that I care about but I want to be able to highlight that net and have it show it to me so that it it is unambiguous doing K and now I should have some 30 ohm resistors uh where does that one go don't know 30s 30s that one okay so that is a 30 that is a 30. so we're ending up with neat little component arrays here 30 that one no that's associated with this port up here okay we will get to that so what signals are we routing here so we've got D minus one D Plus One D minus two D plus two Okay so we've got two of the USB ports coming off this side of the chip and we're going to end up with a nice little array of Parts related to those two ports what goes down there oh yeah okay so that's just the connectors so that connector is associated with this oh and that's very nice look at that we've got a straight shot through on the routing from that signal through to these pins very nice now this port is going to be associated with up there I'm just going to stick it in that direction for now so so uh okay so this raises something that I am very tempted to do all right what is going on here with these ports is High designated the first Port so Port one as being our internal Port going to the MCU and then ports two and three are the auxiliary things now last week when I did this this just ground my mind my OCD can't handle USB port 2 so dp2 dm2 being auxiliary one that is just horrible and Port 3 being auxiliary 2. I don't like that at all so what I'm very tempted to do is switch around the assignment of the ports here so that this is auxiliary port one this is auxiliary port 2 and Port 3 is the one that goes to our internal device ah looked I don't know if you can um hear me at all um looks like NBN bit me again uh uh so I'm getting a warning that the bit rate is lower than the recommended bit rate and I'm not seeing any video coming through all right so I'm just going to keep going keep going but maybe you won't alright so this is my idea I want to re-associate yeah I want to reallocate this it didn't like you yelling at the software yet uh so what I'm thinking of doing is changing it so there are a couple of reasons for this firstly the port assignment just makes more sense so Port one is auxiliary one and Port two is auxiliary two and then Port three is our internal device but the other is that from a routing point of view we can see that ports one and two come off the same side of the chip here and it means that we could have the two USB connectors side by side basically what would happen is that this USB connector I've got to re-select this this USB connector up here would end up there and we'd have these two USB sockets side by side and they would both have oops straight shot routes through for those traces and I think that would be much nicer so I am thinking of reassigning this now I'm just going to hit save because I haven't saved for ages and I am paranoid now we hear you type yeah okay this might be just about the last thing I do because it's getting on with time so what I'm going to do here is I'm going to move these in I'm going to reassociate oh so that's dp3 dm3 all right I am going to go to the microcontroller and reassociate these pins instead of dp1 and dm1 I want a dp3 and dm3 so I'm going to rename that one only that segment because I want to attach it to the other segment and make it dp3 yes join it and I want to make that one dm3 and yes join it so this will move the ESP to being on the third port of the USB hub so now if we go back to the USB hub it'll be on these nets here so now what I can do if I get rid of that little sheet dialog is delete that net and that net and I'm going to just for the sake of not splitting the net I'm going to stick a ground on there and delete that all right so now what I should be able to do oh come on why can't I do a lasso you select that that's annoying I can only do a drag select why can't I do a lasso select yeah that's another limitation of of fusion 360 compared to Eagle all right now I'm gonna have to bring that down a bit I think so then we've got D and I want to join that that yeah I'm just going to get rid of these um labels and then that goes to there yeah it's going to end up being a bit tight uh is that kind of fits yeah it should I think it will all right let's I can move stuff if it doesn't so I want to stick this which one comes straight through the D plus signal um and I'm going to stick that oh it comes right across to there all right can't move it just yet I've got to move that into there I'm gonna have to do some uh some moving things around to make this fit because it's overlapping the other logical block above it but that's okay this can all be fixed fix it in post all right now getting closer so that goes to there I'll bring all of those down bring that down this is a bit of a squash job but I can take that across there obviously and then just get rid of that that'll neaten things up a fraction and all of this has to come physically down because it's overlapping with this other logical block but what I can do is move this down and oh that's right I turned off the um constrained angles feature I might have to move it down even more than that actually but let's for now adjust move this and even though it won't be pretty at least we'll it'll be logically kind of correct so then all of that needs to come down all right let's bring these parts all down one grid notch so that I can then pull that down pull that down that's joined now yes it is okay that's better so now I'll move that out of the way oh and that is going to become aux one and that is going to become aux 2. so oh those labels are out of place a drink yes [Music] it's looking better now anyway all right I'm just going to stick a um a couple of stub Nets coming off here and um put labels on them dp3 and that is going to be to the protocol converter protocol converter on Port three all right not quite neat yet in terms of all of its spacing I can pull all of these down make a bit more room up here that can all get better but logically now at least that should be kind of what it should be so now if I come back to here I will be able to see if I move that that one can come down to there where's the other 30 ohm there it is that one can come down to there and now we have ourselves a nice little grid coming off the bottom side of the USB hub which is the two ports and in fact just thinking about moving there slightly apart not that it really matters I think I will I'm going to move them by I'm going to move these left by one millimeter which actually makes it nicely symmetrical too so we've got the center of the chip here right coming down through the Gap so we've got a block of parts for the first USB port blocker parts for the second USB port and then these parts go up here because they are all associated with the third USB port so that one can go there that one can go there what have we got some more 15ks um where do they go what are they associated with that one Maybe Yep looks like it so same sort of thing except that it's coming out horizontally instead of vertically so we've got uh the 22 picker farads let's move these ones together because that is a logical block and then we don't have 30 um where does that one go why do we have other 30 ohm resistors ah no I thought that we should only have four why do we have more 30 ohm resistors what's going on in the schematic so we've got 30 ohm resistors on those lines we don't have it for the internal oh we do have it for the Upstream connection okay so Upstream stream Upstream Upstream where are you so that is 30 hour on the Upstream connection all right so the Upstream connection must be over here somewhere that and that where are the pins for the Upstream connection is it there so we've got what I'm looking for uh what are they even called a dp0 and dm0 yes that's what we care about okay oh come on why does it let me temporarily select and then it just deselects it that is annoying all right then 30 ohm on there all right so that is a similar logical block to it what we had on the other side so then we've got 22 figure I get this one microfade out of the way that'll be a power uh where am I you've been gay no where does that one go that's associated with that net well it's just Rat's Nest and then rip it up oh that one is that meant to be there no oh that's reset why that's the wrong 15K resistor that's one that hangs off the reset pin so um that is not the one I want where is it where did that other resistor go maybe hanging over here nope these are the 5K ones that go on well while I'm doing this let's grab the USBC connector move it around here get that power connector out of the way and just hang it in there all right so I am missing I need to find the other 15K that's not it this one is not it this is the one associated with the reset line so where is that 15K resistor hanging out no that's right it's not those not there hahaha that's 100 Ferry cap that's not it there's a hole right here that should have a 15K resistor in it it's a 15K resume oh no it's not 15K it's a 1.5 K in fact it shouldn't have that I was mistaken because these um these are misleading me oh no I should have two 15ks and two 222 picker farads no that's for the downstream for the Upstream oh there are no none okay so I just need a pair of 22s and the 30s so I've got the 22 bigger farads and I got that's it it was there all along that was all it was meant to be so these 1.5s uh pool Downs or something [Music] where are they where are those 1.5s ah no that 1.5 is from here it's from DP zero goes to dp0r which is on pin 27 so that one does indeed need to connect into dp0 but it also needs to connect across to pin 27 which is over there so you can do that sort of thing something like that all right starting to look kind of vaguely approximately sensible we've got things associated with the sides that they should be on on the left we've got the Upstream USB connection now we also want the these so these are the um the the 5K one resistors that are used for um oh come on I'm trying to get myself used to zooming in and out to move around instead of just panning because like I'm moving this two finger drag now it's not moving sometimes it works and now it's working why was it not working before I didn't actually click anything or do anything else I just yeah this um the inconsistency in this user interface is going to annoy me a lot the fact that things work sometimes and don't work other times that is just bad all right so I'll just sling those on either side of the connector it's usually a good place to put them because then they can it can be routed through these um this net here coming from this 5K resistor comes to this pad in here so what it means is that it's a very if you stick them on either side of the connector it becomes a very simple route through from there so that's where I normally put them on USBC connectors uh uh then we've got the data lines coming through to their and then through to the Upstream port on the chip we've got the two Downstream ports here that are going to our auxiliaries hang on I've got a golf oh excuse me oh cable tie says selected on this schematic yep it turns out that I did not need it after all um Michael says I'd love to find the 15K yes I would love to find fifteen thousand dollars too all right so we have the two Downstream connections here signals coming out of the chip straight into these filter Networks and then to the connectors so that's quite neat we have Port 3 coming off on the right side of the chip here so we've got dm3 and dp3 going through this little filter Network coming to the esp32 all right so I haven't actually done any routing all of this has just been shuffling Parts moving them into place but at this stage of the game this is the game it's just minimizing all of the trace lengths and getting things into logical order so that the actual routing is relatively quick it doesn't take long at all it's just click click click click because if the air wires are all going to the right places already it should be very obvious so a bit of effort here in terms of moving things around and putting them into connections that are associated with each other is worth it all right what am I going to do do I move that up a bit closer I'm just wondering if it's time to route a few of these tracks when some of these are obvious I could just route them and then they're going to stay as a block anyway no I do not need 0.8 millimeter traces so let's just do some basic routing of a couple of these because I'm going to move these as blocks anyway they're going to stay connected to each other like their relative positions will stay the same even if I move that block around um now what is going on over here so we've got D plus and D minus uh I've got both the grounds pointing up I should probably spin that I think is The Logical way to do this so that the grounds are on the outsides and I can see that there are quite a few 3.3 volt connections that I'm going to need to bring in here so I'm going to have to Route power around under this chip so that's probably a reasonable thing to do at this point let's just do some a lot of the the signals are just going to Fan straight out the power is going to have to be routed through underneath and probably with a few wires there so let's just do a little bit of um jumping around under the chip 3.3 volts oh yeah let's go for a finer grid um just take it down a half a millimeter that'll do and oh there's a um there's a 3.3 volt there and that one goes to there so lots of bridging between well I thought I saw another one there it is yeah that'll do um yeah that'll do just as a starting point so we'll get the um there yeah it's got quite a few 3.3 volt Connections in here and that one yeah why not okay uh there's a 3.3 volt there and then what I should do is drop a fire where is it Place route I want to place a buyer let's dig it ah yeah I'll just stick it there all right that'll do and then I'll give it a name of 3.3 volts which will attach it to that net oh and I'll make it a bit smaller it's huge no I want to select the wire and then I'll stick it well I stick it yeah we'll do okay so that will now patch the uh oh okay so we've got a um a ground let's stick another fire in there yeah we'll do and we'll give we'll name that one ground okay so that we don't have an orphaned polygon in here although there's nothing actually connected to that polygon so it doesn't matter I could have avoided that doesn't matter all right probably kind of ugly routing but step one make it work step two make it pretty so we've now got 3.3 volt it's routed around now I think I can't even remember this was a four layer board I think I had it set up as a four layer board yeah and one of these will have a 3.3 volt pour on it so one of these layers will be 3.3 volts which means that anywhere we need 3.3 volts we can just drop a via in place and we've got it we've got power right there uh uh Steven says flip the parts for the data pair so the data flows through the Middle with the grounds on the outside of each pair yes very good idea let's do that that is exactly what should be the case so let's dude let's do that and flip and that one and that one and that one good suggestion Stephen yes and two yeah so that was already the case here let's just um let's ride out to here and there and there and there and it's already the case up here as well so I'll move that up to oh that's right I forgot I switched this to a um 0.5 grid so I'll just move that there and there and then we can route that to there we're out back to there there and there okay so well these could be rotated because the um the signal path goes right goes straight through it I really could do this uh anyway that track is so ugly let's get rid of it I don't like that come on rip up why is the rip up tool not working ah it's oil oh I need to I need to change my shortcut on that how do I do a um if I select this if I go rip up object does that work no what I need is a shortcut to be able to select the rip up tool with object selected instead of all by default is probably a way to do that all right and we'll just fix that again now um oh yeah and there are the poly fuses so let's just move those near the parts they're associated with near the connector now where is that going to go somewhere around there and that one's going to go somewhere around there like that and what is this doing I don't know what this cap is doing sitting out there having a picnic all by itself what is that cap what is with Fusion Zoom oh what what okay that cap is c16 so where is c16 in here so show c16 where where is it I want my cursor to jump to it when I do that um oh there it is it is on the ee data connection okay so I want it somewhere near pin six so that we want somewhere near pin six on oh come on you stupid Zoom stop jumping around like a crazy thing there's pin six somewhere around there so that is the T USB and move oh there's a rendering artifact that's kind of ugly all right so now if I route out of pin six I can take it to there do we still get a ground pour through to the ground there yes we do those thermal reliefs are pretty aggressive doesn't leave a whole lot of of copper going to the track that'll be configurable in the design rules uh oh uh Jay asked will you be adding decoupling caps on all those 3.3 volt power pins that's a good question we could do that just by putting some caps around the outside of the chip probably not on all of them it uh I need to have a look at the specs so we've got um over current one over current two over current three yeah a lot of these are not actually power they are configuration pins that are being tied so we've got this this is the over current protection circuit this is how it um it could be worth investigating this but I don't actually care I'm not I don't want to put that much effort into this I'm not building a consumer product so with this it can use over current detection on the downstream ports and then disable them and the way that you disable the over current protection is you tie those pins to 3.3 volts and so we've got power on as well so it can control Power to Downstream ports I believe so then we've got a bus Power MP3 and ocprot Powers were whatever that is these are all inputs and they are tied to 3.3 volts so it's not actually consuming power through all of those pins they are just setting config options so it's pins 3 and 25 technically the VCC pins that's where it will be consuming power and of course the ground pins are just as important as the positive pins in terms of decoupling so pins 3 and 25 which are weighs 25 up there so that pin there is an actual power in pin pin 26 is not a power in pin that's just a um a config pin and power six here oh no was it three three and back to here back to look refresh my memory pins 3 and 25 are the power input pins for this chip so it's that one and that one so you are right it would be sensible to put a decoupling cap in the proximity of that pin and probably in the proximity of that PIN so cool oh okay so Jay says I thought those were power section 10.1 spec sheet talks about decoupling okay maybe we do need to decouple on those um I okay so I've got to admit that I've been very lazy at this time because I had what I've done here is basically cribed this circuit from a project I did a few years ago and back at the time I went through the data sheet and did whatever I felt was appropriate at the time for that project but this time I haven't checked it like I haven't gone back to make sure that my previous assumptions are correct and maybe I made a mistake last time maybe I should have added more decoupling around some of these other power caps so I should Fusion stop doing that stupid Zoom thing where you jump to some random place ah and now I can't uh I'm dragging the canvas only sometimes works annoying yeah I I really think keycad here I come I'm trying to select this to drag it and it won't um what was I saying I don't know and that is probably partly because it is over time and I'm tired all right so there's my power let's clean up a little bit around here and then leave this leave for next time I'm just going to bring some stuff down to uh keep the canvas a little bit smaller so that we can see more on the screen at a time yeah that'll do just going to go on the bottom of it there's a fuse and fit all right get rid of that tool and Save so what do we have well we still got some mess around here that we need to clean up this is the 3.3 volt regulator and this is just hanging over from that previous project so I need to clean that up put it in proximity of this and I need to pull these major blocks off the board and start plonking connectors down in places that seem to make sense and then everything else will sort of Juggle around that ah chip you heard my stomach yes chip says apparently jono's Tommy is rumbling yeah Okay so there are a couple of things to do I'm going to add notes to myself in here based on that suggestion so Jay pointed out that I should check 10.1 of the data sheet for the USB chip to do I have a to-do anywhere in here I had it to do at some point where is oh go away I don't like that tab layout um all right let's let's make ourselves a little to do dude no do no it's had to do not an odoo uh to do check um section 10.1 for USB decoupling I want to add P fit protection on Upstream V USB and what else do we need to look at next time uh ideas please suggestions what am I forgetting there's um let's turn this into a bullet list making load says I have Mouse button problems too oh Steven says my mouse has developed a dodgy left button so it randomly double clicks when you do a single click so annoying yeah ah Gerald says you had it to do but I think you ended up doing all the things yes the things that I had previously oh yeah so I need to uh match up nets to esp32 because I've currently still left them floating you can just sort of see down on the right here what else is there uh let's make that more obvious 106. why is yeah let's make it a bigger to-do list movable cable connections to the outside edge yes um I suppose that's it to do I didn't actually bother putting that in the list because that's just the next part of laying out the board but let's um put that on the list uh Place connectors um in logical places place connectors on board Edge that'll do so I need to think about this I haven't I haven't considered putting this into an existing off-the-shelf case which is one of the approaches I was thinking of just 3D printing a case to put it in which means that we're not restricted in terms of Dimensions or mounting holes or anything like that it can just be whatever shape and size we think is appropriate and um I need to think about the cable routing like power and USB different devices being plugged in for example do I want the Upstream USB to be on the same side as the downstream USB connections or do I want Upstream USB and Power on one side and then the downstream USB connections on the other you know those sorts of considerations and where is the can bus connector going to be does that go on the same side as the two Downstream USB connections or does it go on the Upstream side that's um that's going to be a case of going into the board layout and moving everything else out of the way and just grabbing the connectors and moving them around and into a logical layout where things go where we want them to be Michael says he has to depart and tells me to go to lunch yes our kid says board layers um yeah so oh uh I'm not sure what that's about maybe checking what the board layers are it's a four layer board um three layers of ground one layer is 3.3 volts that's how it currently is wagon loads asked a very good question which is how much space do you need between the output USB ports are they cable only or would they ever be something wider than a cable that is an excellent point because I use an HDMI to USB capture device on one of the cameras on the the top camera and it's physically it's one of those fpga based dongles it's physically quite large and that could plug straight into the USB port but only if there was space alongside it at the moment I have little extension USB cables so the it's just a USB cable going to the HDMI capture dongle but the dongle could go directly into this hmm that would mean putting these USB ports further apart you are absolutely right so I'm going to put that wagon loads thank you I'm going to put that in the to do thing here something to consider in fact I'm going to say consider um HDMI to USB plugged in clearance okay so I will think about that I I think what I will do is just have cables plugged in and not have the dongle plugged in directly because that could end up putting strain on the connectors as well but that is definitely a consideration okay now I am hungry and many other people are hungry as well oh yes Keith H 5 volt power upward needs is two amps enough now is 10 watts enough yeah okay so that is something else to do is find yeah is to I I don't want to be doing more than two amps through the five volt rail because we're only going to have two Downstream things plugged in only one of them will be a camera and the other will be something like a feeder controller that has its own power source anyway so it's just data on USB okay so find um find inductor with 2 Amp plus rating okay so that is something else to do hmm okay I think that's probably a good place to leave it for now it is now 17 minutes past the two hour mark [Music] yeah yeah yeah save okay so we still got some more tweaking to do on the schematic we've got a couple of major subsections of the PCB in reasonable shape so the five volt regulator that was that's easy that was that's all routed we've got basic part placement for the USB hub so we've got the parts not in final placement they might move around a little bit like these might move a little bit these might move a little bit but we've got them basically aligned where they need to be on the the correct sides of the chip we've got the ports here and so there's just a bit of cleanup to do next time to move the USB this is the can bus rather I'll move the can bus off somewhere else and that can be its own little self-contained block and then we can start putting connectors in different places and see what makes sense all right I think that's going to be it for now I think that's going to be it ah I feel like I need to lie down on the floor and have a little nap after this all right our Keith HCS diode on five volt input side the uh on the five volt input side do you mean on the the USB connector so we've got I'm on the wrong sheet here sheets I don't like that I have to open that dialogue every time to change sheets that's annoying um so this we've got five volts coming in here from the Upstream USB port there is a fuse on it there is no diode you are correct that goes straight to the 5 volt rail but that is going to be taken care of by this adding pfat protection on Upstream V USB so effectively what that's doing is using a pmosfet as a near ideal diode because we don't want voltage drop if we just put even something like a shocky diode it's going to have a few tenths of a volt drop on that so if we bring 5 volts in from the Upstream connection and then we pass it through a diode we're going to lose a bit so using a pfat for that minimizes the voltage drop that's coming through yes okay oh yes chip said had the reminder said go feed that tummy see you at the barbecue next week yes I forgot to mention next week amazingly is barbecue week again already this seems to come around so frequently so if you want to come along to the super lab next Sunday to the barbecue please jump on Discord and all the details will be posted there so I will see you some of you in person some of you on the stream next Sunday and I hope you have a fantastic weekend thanks for helping me with messing around with this design and we will continue next week so goodbye thank you bye [Music] thank you [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music]

Channel: SuperHouseTV

Views: 1,029

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Id: 9jmLqKr2HGc

Length: 140min 54sec (8454 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 05 2023