Has Evidence for the Supernatural | Keith - Ohio | Atheist Experience 21.08

we've got keys in Ohio who supposedly has evidence for the supernatural yeah can you hear me okay we can yeah we can thanks for calling oh you have no idea how honored I am so yeah I'm a truck driver from Omaha Nebraska okay so and I'm in Ohio so and I want to actually drive down to you guys to watch your show and sit in I'd love that but and go out to you guys real fast okay so I was wondering uh the word hypothetical raises red flags with you guys um but uh I have no problem I have no problem with hypotheses okay cool now real fast uh now if you guys were this is having to do with paranormal okay so if you are in a supposed open field during the daytime with five other people with you maybe hat all of you are atheists and this supposedly is a haunted place there isn't any twigs or anything you all had shirts on and you were standing five feet apart from each other now all of a sudden randomly if you guys got scratch marks underneath your shirts on your back on the same handprint would you what would you I was actually kicked out of the Atheist Experience whatever on Facebook nothing with you guys that got on was a troll but asking that question and the answer was I from some people it was legitimate question but others it was I can't explain it I don't know but if that happened to you guys on a personal way what would you suppose or your idea or it also on the side note I would recommend if you guys of course don't believe in the supernatural through the night at a place that is supposed to be haunted or already done no but okay that's cool I like that now what would happen in the scenario of the hypothetical situation I described I tell you what I am saying I answered all this over and over yesterday so I'm gonna let Tracy just not going to park room I'm not sure what you mean by I'm not sure what you're asking me I'm trying to figure out yeah no no I understand a scenario you're describing but what is it that you that you're asking from me oh uh would you think that would be a supernatural thing that I wouldn't think anything of it I wouldn't think anything of it I wouldn't know what to think about it why would I think anything when I don't know what caused it well if it was a supposed place if this happened and people don't have any idea what happened but if it happened to you personally you you would basically say oh I don't know I just got scratched underneath my shirt and no one touched it and everyone had to say marks on their back we don't understand right that's what you just described and that would be my assessment of what happened and last question what would it take or what would I know this Hebrew stuff whatever in the sky whatever blah blah blah I don't agree with that wouldn't even convince me there is a God firstly or whatever but what would it take for you guys to believe in the supernatural or have you ever had any experiences of your own where there was a possibility no or what would it take for you guys think what you're asking me is what would it take for me to be convinced that there's a supernatural dimension to reality is that what the question yes and and have you had anything happen that you could have possibly thought might have been like after somebody died you woke up at a certain time or a descent or well okay in the past when I was a kid for example I had all kinds of superstitious ideas about the world so there was a time in my life when I did subscribe to a lot of superstition I don't anymore and I think since becoming a skeptic I have not had an experience that has made me question whether or not I had a supernatural explanation because I don't know what a supernatural explanation even looks like and that's the problem I'll okay this is the problem like what you described in the field right you're saying you know would that would that be convincing a convincing scenario for the supernatural I guess my question is why would I assume the supernatural manifests that way like what what is it about the event that you think you'd have to know something about the supernatural and how it functions and how it manifests before you could look at the result and say that the supernatural it's almost like saying it did something get burned right we know we know a lot of times what something looks like if it's been burned like when I bought my house one of my cabinets has a burn mark on the you know so clearly someone had a fire in the kitchen because I've got a cabinet that's burned AHA and we recognize that now what if I'd never seen anything burned ever why would I think why would I have an idea about what caused it if I've never seen anything burned the reason that I have an idea about what might have happened to the cabinet is because I understand how a burn look and so my assumption and I could be wrong but my assumption in looking at it is this looks very much like like what a burn looks like what fire does to a cabinet but if I've never seen fire do anything or if I don't have if I've never been able to examine fire and the results of fire how would I know what the manifestation of the result of a fire would would appear to be so what you're saying is because you don't even know let's say like fire you you wouldn't even know what fire was therefore you wouldn't even know what to call it right why would I start saying hey fire did this and it's like what is fire and you never you don't know what fire is you've never seen it you've never examined it you're using this word that doesn't even mean anything and I mean it literally has no meaning until there's something there to examine now you can examine the evidence of something done underneath five of your shirts I mean yeah you can see it scratched right yeah you can see the before side that if if I don't know as I'm saying it or it's like asking what causes the cabinet to look that way if somebody's never seen a fire or something to be thrown across the room you so basically you're saying there's nothing that you would believe - that - that the supernatural exists because there is no foundation what I'm saying is is that we did some investigation of the the flying objects or we could do further investigations of the scratches on how they appear and we could get some if there were some way to get gather evidence for a cause what you've got is the event this is like what Matt was saying about the moon you've got the event and yeah you can look at the event but we know what scratches look like and we're saying okay if you appear to be scratches but what caused them I mean even in your story if you're saying it's a supernatural attribution what does that mean how did the scratches Matt like how did we get scratches on us you're saying well it could be supernatural supernatural how how did the supernatural is it really it really doesn't uh whether maybe don't even call it the supernatural but something invisible or something visible just happened okay okay okay Keith Keith Keith stop yep Matt go ahead isn't everything either visible or not visible you just said either the invisible or the visible did something doesn't that include everything but you don't believe invisible invisible keep your argument is that one item in a set of all items did something that tells us nothing so one meaning invisible would have caused that and everything's either upstate everything is either visible or not visible correct yes and that was that no there's a full stop so when you said that the scratch was caused by something visible or caused by something invisible what you're saying is the scratch was caused by something and it could be anything it correct then how do you reach my conclusion about what it was well because all five I saw that no one was behind them doesn't 19 caused it so you don't okay so many but you you haven't even ruled out the visible there yet all you've ruled out is whether or not somebody saw it those there are things in the other room that are visible that I can't actually see right now right correct so your first step is you haven't even ruled out things visible you've just ruled out whether or not it was seen my question is how do you determine what the cause of those scratches were you would determine what what the ski well it's not possible okay that's for okay what this crazy hey see then how is your example in any way relevant to whether or not someone accepts supernatural explanations can you repeat it one last time I promise how is your example in any way relevant to whether or not someone should accept supernatural explanations because there's a possibility of it being that how do you know that from okay first actually before you even answer that question no you just you just acknowledge there's no way to tell and yet your example your example implies that one could be reasonable in in accepting a supernatural explanation for those scratches when you just acknowledge that there's no way to tell if there's no way to tell how could you possibly reach the conclusion that the supernatural is the best explanation for them what is it's a possibility okay does that pass in your books that is how do you a possibility okay here's here's the problem which Traci tried to exist Traci try to address if you don't know anything about fire and you've never had an example of fire there's no reason to conclude that fire is possible or a likely explanation first you need a definition and understanding of fire and then an understanding of what fire can do you can't even say that the supernatural is possible you haven't demonstrated that you haven't defined what supernatural is you haven't demonstrated that it's possible and how could it then be a possible explanation until you've done that well because it all can't be impossible either how do you know that like how do you know that no be all we know is the scratch marks underneath a shirt right that's all we need scratch marks are irrelevant scratch marks are irrelevant to the question of whether or not the supernatural is real and can be used as an explanation you say the supernatural is possible and I said how do you know the supernatural is possible and you said because it can't be impossible how do you know that well because of what happened about know I keep on going back to the scratch marks I know and that's a problem gamma t measure depravity that's the problem you keep going back to something that cannot possibly demonstrate and is irrelevant to the question the supernatural will set aside how we define it for a second the supernatural is either possible or impossible you think it's possible and when I asked why you said because it can't be impossible and I asked how did you determine that the supernatural cannot be impossible yes but your your cream you're kicking my ass with logic yes and it's fine you're cool no I all I want is for you to answer the question you think that something is plausible you think that something is possible and your reason for thinking that's possible is because you claim it can't be impossible now if you can demonstrate successfully that it cannot be impossible then I would accept that it is possible but you haven't done that but but nothing is 100% all the time uh without evidence I don't even know what that sentence had to do with what we were talking I'm not sure what it meant no but but the thing is I just don't the bottom line is what would it take for you guys so no please Keith the bottom the bottom line is this the answer to your questions what would it take to convince us of the supernatural is real it would start with a logically sound argument supported by evidence that in fact the supernatural Israel has been defined it simply is not going to convince us to say well it can't be impossible and then when I ask how do you know it can't be impossible you flounder around and say things that don't even make sense how do you know that the supernatural is possible what way can you measure it because it's an it's hard to measure right I would say I would say as far as I can tell we don't have any way to mention not that it's hard to make what would we be measuring difficult to measure the volume of the lake you know behind my house if all you've got two tablespoon but I mean I don't even see the link here visible causing something that we don't know what's causing it like we don't know what's wrong and the wall and if you don't know what it causing it you can't then you don't know if it's a supernatural cause and when you say that it could be the question is how do you even know it could be yeah I hear you I just thought I just wouldn't if I was in the shoes of being out in the field there I am I I would be skeptical too but I would I you do at home saying all right I want evidence I would go home thing it I think it wheeze come in from the field I have a question come in from the field and address the issue yeah you're in the you're in the field and this happens to you I'm just curious what is your explanation for what just happened well I I am more of a trust me I I'm not the typical but something invisible would have caused that that I can't explain of course of course like you guys are looking for the explanation I would be tend to believe it would be something supernatural but you guys like what they will I select one proof like what like an invisible entity like what kind of identity so now we've got and now it's invisible and it's an entity what are you calling an entity something that did something that you can't see physically with your eyes that's back today yet okay that's large but somebody that passed on but the thing is you can't prove that I'm asking why we would even assume it like why would you even start making why would you head look at the path you're heading down and the pieces that you're putting in place based on a situation where you have no explanation at all and no no investigation to determine what has happened and you're in building this model of a thing that's got like parts and pieces and from what there are only there are keys hang on there are five people standing out in your field okay person one after this happens does it feel a haunted field okay Matt I mean you know no it does matter no it does matter Keith you don't just get to call it a haunted field you have to demonstrate its haunted but okay let's assume that we've called it a haunted field can I finish my thought yeah sorry there are five people standing in the field and they end up with these scratches on their back person one says I don't have an explanation for why there are scratches on my back yeah person two says I believe that it was you know maybe some bacteria or fungus or something like that even though I don't have evidence for it yet person three says I'm convinced that it was some sort of supernatural agent person 4 is convinced that it was an alien death ray and pers that didn't kill him and person 5 says it was God Almighty who reached down from the heavens and anointed us with a birthmark ray a new the second birthmark which one of those out which one of those five people has the most reasonable most defensible position that was Wow I'm very impressed Matt that was a great example I you know what none of them have any evidence well alright they all have the same evidence they have the same evidence right okay but as far as all what caused it they don't have any so who is the most reasonable person of those five can that be subjective I don't I'll give you a hint the person who says they don't know what happened that's the person that's most reasonable because they're recognizing that they don't have sufficient evidence to reach a conclusion that person is acknowledging that I don't have enough evidence to reach one of those other conclusions or any other proposed conclusion so for now I'm going to say I don't know because that's honest answer it and let's wait till we have information that helps us there are in a cause now that we've excluded person number one which of the remaining four is most reasonable well out of the three or four left number two the one that is appealing to natural causes about things that we know because we know that just not seeing something it could be something like a bacteria or something like that right okay so now we know now we've eliminated two people who as the most reasonable the three the three left who is the most unreasonable of all well of course you know I know where it go in the third one no no the most unreasonable of all is the Godwin at the end so what they've done is they've added a whole bunch of specifics the third one just says hey there's something supernatural the second one so you're well actually probably the fourth one would would be because aliens that's right you know whatever but the point is by Occam's razor the more that you add to this that you don't have justification for the further you depart from having a reasonable staff standing yeah you know I just have to say the psychological reason why people I think believe that is because of the way they were raised and what they have experienced in the past or seen on TV or whatever and so they jump to conclusions to put pieces together how they think based off their experiences without having um I agree that cultural experiences will will push you to in particular explanations especially for things you don't understand there are certainly situations where I there's like a really good story called Shakespeare in the bush and there's an example where somebody is talking about it the ghost in the story of Hamlet right and they say that Hamlet's father that he sees his dead father's ghost and they start to explain it and they're explaining the story to a group of people who live in a culture where ghosts are not understood so they have no cultural context for ghosts and so what they do is they say no it couldn't be this thing that you're saying dead people don't communicate like a dead person doesn't communicate they said it must be like a some sort of a specter that was put in to handle head by a witch because they had a cultural context for that so for them when you see dead people it means that there's a witch that is manipulating your mind to make you see this thing and it's probably very evil and you shouldn't trust it which kind of blows the story of Hamlet because the whole idea is that it was his ghost father trying to tell him about the murder so in the situation where a person is trying to tell the story of Hamlet they're using a cultural context where ghosts at Kennett can appear and especially come forward if they had a bad death and they're trying to get help but in the context of the people that we're hearing the story there's no such thing as a ghost and but there are witches and they can make you see things and so they determined that in the you know that the story is actually describing a spectre sent by a witch so yes last last question Keith and then I'm going to move on to other colors now that we've established that the most reasonable answer is I don't know if you were to be out in that field now would you still conclude that it was likely a supernatural entity I would have to say I think you threw a fewer by me and explained it the way you did why does it make if I'm in the field you keep going to things that have no bearing on the question oh no no no I'm not disagreeing with you actually I would base because of you explaining to me those five situations if whatever I would actually be able to say I don't know could be the right thing to say out of my mouth you are getting a round of applause right now from everybody on the other side of the glass you are come how come because they are happy that you understand the point I mean and I don't say that that's not the features wrong being tell anybody you know I guess could be wrong so I lied about that being the last question because you got that answers it let me let me ask you this is something possible just because it hasn't been shown to be impossible is something possible just because it hasn't shown to be not possible yes yeah yes anything you know possible no not anything I'd be careful words with you because you're the best set so this is not but let's try this again real quickly okay okay we have a claim is it possible that this claim is true merely and only because it hasn't been demonstrated that it's not true it is possible no because it hasn't been demonstrated okay has it been demonstrated that I can flap my wings and fly like a bird no it hasn't has it been demonstrated that this is impossible oh yeah with what you're saying yes no has been demonstrated he's when has it been them when was it demonstrated that it is impossible for me to flap my wings and fly when has it when is it ah it you have never flap your wings and fly how do you know that is how do you know that and just because I haven't done it does that mean it's impossible well here's a better way to wait can I try this key what wait I know I'd like to try though okay it's something cold just because it hasn't been demonstrated to be hot mmm yeah yeah so something if something hasn't been demonstrated we were so close here's what here's what Matt's trying to get us well you're just trying to understand let's say that I that we have this thing we don't know if it's hot or cold we haven't done a serrated it to be hot that doesn't mean it's cold because it could be hot just could we haven't demonstrated it to be hot doesn't mean it's not hot that's what Matt's trying to get at ah it's going to still not it may not be cold right it may it may be hot and just because we haven't demonstrated it as hot doesn't mean it's cold ah what I'm going to do is I'm going to listen to this and I'm going to play it after this episode is over and I will totally get it but I have another question for next week yeah we're here I'm going trying to find out if I'm on the show next week or not all right this'll I'm pretty sure I'm not because my family's down it's Russell so yeah you can ask Russell about yeah your next question but what I will totally get what you're saying after I listen to it okay thank you again I love you guys thank you thank you I know it's dead air afterwards but it's like I was we were right there you know it's a difficult thing to kind of keep with an honest caller yeah and that's the thing which is why he got around of Adonis colic it's one of those things where and by the way I had this same discussion with Blake Junta who's a Christian apologist who friend of mine he's very very bright and he went with the everything is possible until it's demonstrated to be impossible as well simply not true now possibility is a claim which has a burden of proof and impossibility is a claim which has a burden of proof and until one of them is established the position is I can't say it's impossible and I can't say it's possible every every claim has a burden of proof like that and if your position is hey it's possible because it hasn't been shown to be impossible that's like saying the number of blades of grass on the earth is in fact either even or odd well you know hot and cold wasn't the best example because those are like extremes and there's a big middle ground the positive and they're low in Arad was it any better so all the blades of grass on earth the number is either even or odd the total number is either even or odd because is it even just because we haven't shown that it's odd right it's not by the way

Channel: The Atheist Experience

Views: 256,660

Rating: 4.8300376 out of 5

Keywords: atheist experience, the atheist experience, theatheistexperience, atheist, atheism, atheist vs christian, atheist debate, religion debate, atheism debate, Matt Dillahunty (Broadcast Artist), belief, faith, reason, rational, proof, evidence, logic, fallacy, religion, religious, science, secular, Skepticism, skeptic, questioning god, doubt, is god real, agnostic, agnosticism, evidence for god, Christianity, Islam, morality, evidence for jesus, Jesus, Jesus Christ, debate, Bible, Bible contradictions

Id: xkpBGxlozFc

Length: 26min 14sec (1574 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 07 2017