Hamza: Imprisoned by Hamas in Gaza

[Music] hi everyone welcome to the Asma Muhammad podcast today we have an incredibly special person with us today we have Hamza Hamza is a peace activist living in Exile he was born and raised in Gazza he lived under the control of Hamas and was imprisoned by them when he participated in the we want to live protests So today we're going to hear the truth about what it's like to live in Gaza how dangerous it is to oppose Hamas publicly and how Hamza feels about seeing University students in the west praising the terrorist group that imprisoned and tortured him welcome welcome Hamza thank you es me thank you for having me it is my absolute honor and pleasure to have you on here you are an incredibly Brave man your voice is so important right now I know that you're taking personal risks by speaking to me by writing the articles that you've been writing and going on the media that you've been going on I think that you know it's hard for people in the west to understand exactly what how big of a risk you're taking because they come from a completely different world like they don't understand what it's like for you and I do and so I really do appreciate um you coming here and speaking to us and I do want to speak a little bit about how grateful we should all feel that you're willing to put yourself out like this and have these conversations because I remember watching you in an interview where you were talking about how Hamas have even been threatening your family family because of the fact that um you are speaking up so you know I don't there's there's no way to overestimate how grateful I am that you're here speaking to us it's so so so important when I tell people about these we want to live protests they say it never happened we never heard about it you know because the media here didn't cover it so we really really need your voice to tell us about the people in H that are fighting against terrorism that are wanting to have peace you know all we're hearing is from the other side but there's so many hundreds of thousands if not you know a million people like you and we want to hear your side of the story so let's start from the beginning I want to know about what it was like for you growing up in Gazza so what was your family like what was your school like so I uh my father and the mother raised six children in their household my father used to work as a technology consultant with within and outside Gaza and my mother was a housewife my father was the the first one who taught me about the Muslim Brotherhood ideology and how dangerous it could be and to to to not be fooled by their slogans and their propaganda they they produced like almost everywhere in Gaza so he was the the the first teacher and they my my brothers are like uh two of them at the study at the medicine School two of them are Engineers so they are all away from the political situation and what what what the the the politics the politicians say and my my first school in Gaza was Arham School Dar Arham School is located near the Israeli border so that's the the the road to the school that I can never forget taking the road to the school seeing hamas's mask men all the way their checkpoints their training camps the slogans almost everywhere and in in 2008 when the when the war started against Gaza I was taking an exam in the school and I remember when I saw the the Israeli tanks coming towards Gaza everyone panicked and running for their lives and I was like totally lost I I didn't know where to go and couple years later my my my father understood that it's dangerous to for me to be in a school close to the Israeli border so I moved to AA school for three years for three years and you know I think everyone knows the the problems within the the educational system and the noral schools so I did not stay for for too long so I I a little bit about it because the problem is that we get so much information but also conflicting information all the time and so that's why it's really important that you actually attended these schools and so just tell us a little bit about what what it truly was like first of all to be honest they help the cins whether it was by with the educ the education the health care and many many poor families were dependent on the Y but on the other hand they produced a an endless problem within the gazan society or the Palestinian Society they they made the problem like they closed any solution to the problem and my problem with the educational system I understood the the problem when I grew up because they were teaching us that Palestine is only for the the Palestinians there was never Jews we own the land and from The River To The Sea so I think that what makes it hard for the Palestinians even to to acknowledge the Jews right on this stand with us that was my first problem and the there are many teachers in the in the Ina schools who are known to be connected to to Hamas and fat by the way people should understand how dangerous that could be I when Thea problem arised during this War I took a look at the at the conversations the teachers in conversation on Telegram and I was shocked because if if this if this is the teacher what do I expected from the students so the teachers were speaking in an extremist manner not only an extremist they were cheer cheering the the raping and the killing of of the Israeli civilians oh wow so it's like it was like a really disgusting conversation I can send you the link and you can take a look oh my God and then these are the ones that are teaching the little children of H putting that poison in their minds I was going to say the fact that your father protected you and spoke to you about islamist spoke to you about the Muslim Brotherhood spoke to you about Hamas and you know encouraged you to use your mind and let you recognize how dangerous these groups are that's huge because he inoculated you against the poison that they so easily put into the minds of all the children that are going to these schools who maybe their families didn't have the opportunity or the education or maybe they're too scared or you know what happens quite often with these islamists is that they you know in Egypt we say right the poison in the honey they act like they are so good they do so many good things it's like you were saying you know so many people rely on them for so many positive things and so then they can also slip in their dangerous ideology and people it takes them sometimes years before they realize they're so deep in it and by then they already have power yeah and they they they work on the term named I think you know it Aya so they can be like to keep their heads down until they have the power to to do something so this was taught in the mosques in Gaza they were saying that publicly that we are like keeping our heads down until we we have the opportunity and we have the power and we can do something then so it's part of the ideology and they recognize it yeah so yeah after I finished my school unfortunately there is no much universities in Gaza we are talking about three universities so I I went to the Islamic University of Gaza or as I and many Gaza prefer to name it the hamas's biggest strong hold in Gaza because it's run and directed by Hamas their leaders their members study there and there they teach to hate not only the Jews or the Israelis to hate the Christians even to hate the secular Muslims it it it was like a a nightmare for me for for for four years to there and to keep my head down and until I I I managed and I graduated from the University but I I thought it would be like a a better life after the university but in fact it was worse tell me how it was worse when I graduated from the University I thought I was good at my at my field I was the third at my college so I thought that I would have a job a good life to to start building my future I started applying for many jobs but every single time I apply for a job in the public sector I pass the interview I pass the exam and I got rejected every single time and they do not hire anyone in the public sector jobs other than hamas's members so I was I was trapped I I want to work but I I can find a job this is a very important Point thank you for bringing this up Hamza because this is the same thing that the Taliban do in Afghanistan too where they make make it so difficult like the the unemployment rate in hzo is so astronomically high right but like you said they the Hamas members they're driving nice cars they're living in nice Apartments they're living their life comfortably and so what it's showing the youth for someone like you graduating from University you want to start your life it's tell it's giving you the message that if you want to be prosperous if you want to be successful then this is your only route the only route for you is is to join Hamas and then you're going to get all of these riches but if you don't join Hamas then they will continue to restrict you in every direction is that true EXA yeah they they made the gazan society as as if it was like two layers the wealthy Elite Omar Hamas and their members and supporters and the the the remaining civilians in Gaza you I was looking at my friends who joined Hamas even uh my house is close to is house in Gaza it's like 10 or 15 minutes so we knew I know is since I was child and I witnessed how he became Richard more and more and more until he escaped Gaza and now lives in the katari hotels I also witnessed that many of my friends who joined Hamas starting having cars Apartments getting married and I was like doing nothing so and and from here we want to live protest the idea started here yeah yeah and yeah tell us about that in in 2019 uh the the economical conditions of of Gaza were like disasterous people were upset of the conditions so we started this this idea to start a a movement for the people it's not Ed to any political movement in Palestine we did not even have a leaders or point a leaders for this M for this movement and we started in 2019 demanding better living conditions more jobs and Reconciliation between Hamas and fat and unfortunately Hamas responded by sending their militias to us uh beating everyone they they managed to S they arrested as much as they could and everyone was scared because H they fired directly at us in the in the protest so it it disappeared from the streets in a minute and the leaders and the the the the known members were all arrested and I was one of them in 2019 so I I I was arrested for for three weeks the first time and yeah my family managed to to pay a pride for hamas's officials we paid like $33,000 to get me out of the jail I managed to to get out of the jail but money couldn't that's a lot of money $3,000 us for people in Gaza like that's almost impossible yeah you are talking about a monthly salary of $400 so it was like a big money in Gaza and many of those who went out of the jail starting leaving Gaza they they never looked back because they lost their hope of of of of making any anything new of this condition to to find a solution to our problems and uh I remained silent for for for for many years because my family was like were like it's danger it's dangerous but in 2023 I was like totally upset of them because they oppressed us more and I participated in the protest mon I think couple of months before the war yeah so we see so we protested again went to the streets and they were more brutal this time and many of those who were known to to participate in the previous protest were like tortured for four months and again and I was arrested on June so my family went to to collect money to pay the bribe again and when they PID the bribe they told me that either you should be silent or you you should leave Gaza because it's not safe for anyone to criticize Hamas even I remember once time I I wrote a post on Facebook one hour after I wrote the post the call started if you did not delete the post you will be arrested oh my God I I did not say anything bad about them I was just criticizing a policy they they impos an extra tars on something imported from the Egyptian side and I wrote a post about it that was the only case and they they called you should delete the post or you will be arrested wow so many things that you've described here are very similar to the Islamic regime of Iran they do a lot they use a lot of these similar tactics oh my God Hamza this is it's just you know this is speaking from a woman who's had her own life traumas like I I'm having trouble keeping it together this this this I'm I'm terrified for you um I'm really really grateful that you're you're sharing this with us now um in those years even in between between 2019 and 2023 when you were quiet it still wasn't good enough though right because you weren't a Hamas supporter so even though you're staying silent obviously you weren't still living happily otherwise you wouldn't risk your life and risk your family's you know uh safety to go out there and protest again yes exactly exactly even if you did not if you don't criticize Hamas that's not enough you should be either a member or a supporter to to get a job and better life in Gaza and I I did not want to join this these movements uh I wanted to to have a normal life like everyone yeah but it it wasn't enough for them and how were you aware of how little attention your protests got on mainstream media in the west at the the protest of 2019 uh it was somehow covered by by by some Arabic media not all of them of course but no there was no with some media coverage but on 2023 protest it was even worse not not a single media covered the protest and the when I was in the in jail I I thought that everyone is talking about us everyone is demanding our freedom or something but when I went out I noticed that no one knew that we were arrested by Hamas no one knew that we were tortured and I was like I feel of betrayal I feel that no there is no solution in Gaza I I should go out and that that's why I and what people don't know that there is like uh I think the statist the statistics say that more than 300,000 gazin lived Gaza before the war yeah so people can imagine how the the people were running running from Hamas exactly the the war with you know Israel didn't start yet October 7th didn't start yet before that people were running out of that country because they were running away from the terrorists that had taken over their Homeland and was controlling them with an with an iron fist I'm really grateful that you were able to get out you know I can just imagine a lot of people in your position who are not maybe as strong in conviction would just join Hamas because it's like the the only solution yeah unfortunately many people F in hamas's TRS but personally I I believe that my family helped me and I had like a a specific experience because somehow I was Radical but thankfully I'm not anymore but it's hard for any gazan to to avoid Hamas in Gaza when you grow up seeing their propaganda from kindergarten and until you die so it's like really hard and the problem with Gaza is like you feel like you are culturally isolated from the outside world you know nothing other than Gaza and that's what the Wiens don't understand about Gaza we don't know your culture your principles even we don't know the human rights it was like a dream for the Gins we never saw that yeah and and this is why I have to take you back to that feeling of betrayal because I was over here in the west my father was living at that time and he was is a was a big peace activist so he was making all of these videos about that we want to live protests he's sharing them on YouTube sharing them on Facebook all he's getting is hate and anger and people telling him that he is um a Zionist entity he's being paid by the Jews da d d like he's being assaulted by his family and his friends this is his homeland you know what I mean he's trying to speak up for these young people who are in the streets risking their lives but he's you know he's got a few followers on YouTube a few followers on Facebook he can't bring your voice to the public the way that the mainstream media could and he had such frustration such rage such anger such demoralizing you know just sadness at how little any media cared you know but if the perpetrator if Israel does something when Israel does something inza it's all over splashed all over the front pages of of everywhere so it was it's very clear that the motivation isn't that you necessarily care about the people of razza no you care to point a finger at Israel you know what I mean you that's what you care about you care about saying look at the bad Jews but the lesen people have been screaming under this terrorist regime for all of these years we're talking about the suicide rates we're talking about the treatment of women we're talking about the unemployment rates we're all of these things that you've been talking about being imprisoned for um for daring to protest not even speaking up against them but just protesting for we want to live like nothing could be more honest and pure and you know like the lowest rung on the maso's hierarchy of needs like we want to live we want to breathe that's all we want we're not asking for the moon you know we just want to be able to live our lives and that was my problem with the with Al jazer because it's the the the the media that have many offices in Gaza and when we protested in 2019 they did not cover that in 2023 they did not cover that and even when people protested during the war demanding to surrender I have to release the hostages more than once during the war in Gaza they did not cover anything of it so they that's why I always say it's a hypocrisy it's like they hate Israel and the Jews more than they love the Palestinians it's not about us it's not that they love us if they if they love us they would have protested in in 20 in 2007 when Hamas killed more than 700 Palestinian to take control of Gaza but we did notar anything from them even when Hamas killed many children during this war to to L Aid no one talked so it's only when the the when it's about Israel everyone is like pointing their fingers starting to criticize I have no problem I personally I I have much criticism to to Israel but I'm not a hypocrite hypocrite I can criticize both Hamas and is right um so because of this sense of feeling betrayed and demoralized and like there's no answer there's no solution I can't continue to live here I can't keep put my family at risk again I can't protest anymore I can't risk going to prison again so you found the only solution was to leave razza um so can you tell us a little bit about that process because I imagine it was not a simple one first of all I I went to Egypt through Rafa Crossing and as everyone knows you should pay the pride and I took a flight to Turkey and from Turkey to Greece with the death boats or the immigration boats and I thought I would be safe in Greece so I started writing my pieces to to the news week and other media but I was threatened even inside Greece because there was I was surrounded by some radical Palestinians inside the camp in Greece oh you were in a refugee camp right I was in refugee camp and the camp was limited for the Palestinians so and all of them were from Gaza so it was like U there was some extremists and I thought that I I should leave so I left and I came here to Germany and I'm I hope that uh it would be safe here because someone has to to talk and to tell people the the reality about Hamas was we are enough with that we could not we can't handle it anymore 20 years with Hamas are enough yeah no more than enough so when that whole path that you described of leaving just starting from the bribe in Egypt from the beginning from the first step let alone the you know the flights and everything else it sounds incredibly expensive and also incredibly dangerous so the percent of people from razza who want to escape is probably minuscule right like there's probably a lot of people there that would love to get out if they could but they just don't have the means exactly every Gaz I talk to from my friends co-workers and everyone I know from Gaza I talk to in in the meantime all of all of them they they want to escape but they can't a really important point that I want to pause on for a second because something that I've been speaking about since October 7th and I can't get my voice loud enough is the way people make this assumption that everybody in Gaza supports Hamas now they make this assumption because they say but we can't hear them we don't see them protesting so why do they stay living there and making all of these in my opinion like really stupid arguments you know like it's so easy to see that when they speak up they get imprisoned they get tortured so of course you're not going to hear their voices and they say oh why don't they leave where are they going to go how are they going to leave you know they they just they but but this makes it's like it it helps them to rationalize I think you know it's same same thing that they do with people in Iran you know they say oh this is their culture this is the way they want to live this is their their religion you know this is their ideology and then they can just sweep us under the rug you know it's harder to admit that these people are are suffering here and it's the it's just they want to turn a blind eye yeah but but but they should understand that it's not easy to criticize a a regime like Hamas when they there is a a gun pointed to your head when the the gazin protested during this war Hamas fire directly and I think more than 10 people were wounded so it's it's not an easy job even the IDF is fighting against Hamas we are talking now more than seven months and they couldn't defeat them imagine if a civilian started this and to to imagine their brutality in a month when they took over Gaza they killed 700 so they don't have any problem with killing as much as they can to silence the people it's not a problem for them yeah I saw videos too of how brutally they treat gay people in Gaza as well because what's very common here in the west is you have queers for Palestine you know gays for Palestine and they're not understanding that if you were gay in Gaza you would be killed like how how do you think supporting this terrorist organization because you're LGBT it's exactly the opposite this terrorist organization would have you killed for being LGBT there was a a commander in the Kasam bries it's his name was mahm mahm was a commander in Alan but he was gay they should know that what Hamas did to him he was tortured for more than one year and when they finished they they killed him and there is a video for his for his mother talking about the the what happened to him he was tortured for more than one year and even his family couldn't see him for for for for this period And I remember there was was when I was child I was like uh 11 I think there was another gay who was thrown from a from a roof so uh we are talking about like it's a an Isis but with a with a good public relations I I I love that they support Palestine but they should understand how to show their support if their support was for the civilians I really appreciate it but if it was for Hamas then you are not supporting the the Palestinians in fact you are supporting the regime that oppressed the the Palestinians they don't there's they don't have a distinction there this is the biggest problem is both people on the right and on the left like to pretend that and Hamas are the same thing so the people on the left think that and Hamas are the same thing so they think when we support Hamas we are supporting the Freedom Fighters of theen people that's what they think right and then people on the right will say all of them every everybody inaz is Hamas so bomb them all kill them all it doesn't matter because they're all terrorists so both sides are not making a distinction I I don't I don't get it how they can support a regime that his ideology is built on killing more than six million Jews how they can support something like that even if it was not for the Jews they are against the secular Muslims they are against the Christians the atheists so you are talking about something worse than Isis how they how they can support that even if it was for the Palestinians that's not the right way there are more better ways you can pressure you government to get the Palestinians and the Israelis together to reach a a reconciliation but the supporting a regime like that that means that only means that you don't want to see an end to this conflict you only want it to continue until something worse than October might happen I entirely entirely agree with you um so you recently deleted some tweets and some Instagram posts and there was a lot of discussion around that a lot of people were really you know trying to come up with ideas like what happened why did Hamza do this what's going on um so why don't you talk to us about that decision the the I I believe in everything I wrote and the the videos I made but unfortunately there was some journalists from Gaza who took this stuff and used it in the wrong time for example they use the the video where I apologize for the Israelis for what happened on October the 7th and I I believe everyone should apologize for that but they used it in a time where there was a a massacre in Gaza so people misunderstood that that I am against the civilians in Gaza and the problem is that both both of those journalists were like the most journalist the most famous journalist in Gaza one of them is in Europe right now and one of them is still in Gaza but people started attacking my family threatening them harassing them even they they are out of Gaza but it was like a unstopping attack so I had to do something because my first and foremost priority remains to my family absolutely and these malicious lying duplicitous monst that did this knew what kind of danger they would be putting you and everyone in your family in if they did this yet they still chose to do it exactly and one of them he's I don't know if if that's possible to to publish or not but I don't remember exactly what he wrote but he like he was like no one should apologize for October the 7th oh boy I was shocked by by this mentality I was shocked because you know what happened and there are some suspicions about him but believing that this should not be that I should not apologize for these atrocities by his respon yeah yeah that's that's very clearly a very dangerous person a very disgusting person with a poisoned mind that would say something like that my my first reply to him was how you felt when you saw some supporters of Hamas or their members celebrating October the 7 didn't that hurt your feelings and he was like no the issue with the anti-Semitism in the Arab and Muslim communities is a very big problem it is it is so big it that it's normalized it does it's not even recognized as a problem excuse me uh it's just the way it is you you know it's it's it's just normal like when somebody says something about you know yahood nobody goes or anything you know like it's of course this is this is how you talk right but of of course in America if you say something about the Jews or the black people or you know the Latinos or something you're going to have people respond because racism is not so normalized in the west now this is the thing here is that I honestly have found that the people in razza and even in the West Bank that have had interactions with Jewish people that have worked in Israel or maybe they've you know whatever they've had interactions they are less anti-semitic than the people in countries like Egypt and Pakistan who have never met a Jewish person in their life they have like a an image in their head of Jewish people being this nonhuman thing so that when the atrocities of October 7th happened and I was getting you know WhatsApp messages from you know how there's always those groups people celebrating and and like they they don't even it doesn't even register in their minds that these are human beings they just think of them as I don't know just a a thing a thing that needs to be eradicated a thing that needs to be killed how prevalent is that mindset in in razza and in your experience I think that to some extent there is anti-Semitism whether it was like a direct or indirect anti-Semitism and the the problem with that I I blame the educational system for that because if someone needs to learn about the Holocaust it's us because we live with the Jew but our history books everything ignores what happened and if you talk to many gazans they don't even know what happened they didn't even know what the the Nazis were or I personally I didn't know until I was like 17 so it's it's I think it's important for the for the new Palestinian Authority or whatever the body that will govern Gaza to to teach the people about what happened to the Jews so we can understand their suffering we can understand their their history and we can see them as humans exactly and personally I was I I I I believed in many delusions about the Jews and the people of Israel I even was feeling afraid if I saw an Israeli flag until I started meeting these people and talking to them to figure out that they are people like us they have the good people they have some extremists they are normal people but uh the the the most dangerous thing about the anti-Semitism is in Gaza it because it's fitted with the with the religion with the teaching the the radical Islam to to to to be against the Jews and the gazan society is known to be a religious Society so Hamas used to produce their this propaganda in the mosques to clame everything in on the Jews everything happens and the they they produced some the anti-Semitism on to some extent but I yes I agree with you it's lower than the case on the west or in America yeah you know I had a friend from Saudi who told me that when he went to the Holocaust museum in Washington DC he said I entered the doors one man and I came out the doors another man it completely changed him he said because I never in my life imagined that a Jewish person could be a victim that a Jewish person could be oppressed they just his whole life he was fed this indoctrination that they are this big strong evil entity that just want to cause chaos in the world and he he just couldn't believe like what looking in the museum and or in the memorial and seeing everything it it just completely blew his mind yeah yeah I I I also remember that I had a friend in Gaza before the war Israel allowed more than 20,000 workers to go and work inside Israel and he was one of them and when he went back from Israel he was happy because he was he told me that they give they gave us our rights we don't have our rights in Gaza he was happy because he paid well he have the his insurance and he told me that the people in theut were helping him and he was shocked because of that that's why I believe that more dialogue more interaction between the people of Israel and the Palestinians is necessary absolutely 100% agree and that brings me to my final question which is a difficult one um how do you see this ending like what what do you think is missing from the conversation right now obviously the biggest problem is that the people of Raza are stuck in between the bombs from IDF and in between the bullets from Hamas um how do you see that what is in a perfect world if you had a magic wand how do you hope to see this um not end but begin I always say that if someone should deal with the caner named Hamas it should be the Palestinian Authority not the IDF because I I think that that's the only way that we can minimize the Siberian casualities because there are there is support for the Palestinian Authority in Gaza they know Gaza they know how to to to defeat Hamas in Gaza but to be honest I don't think that they are interested in doing so they they want the easy solution when they where they can like control Gaza start the the corruption over and over again I don't have a magic solution for that but I believe that uh maybe a reformed Palestinian Authority with the assistance of the United Nations and the Arab countries might somehow downsize the this scale of violence and ha I'm not expecting it to disappear to be solved in a night but I think that it couldn't be downsized to a manageable level no one expected the the Emirates the UAE to to be to in this way it was like a a radical country and now we look at it even the Jews say that it's safer for them to walk in in the Emirates so I think it it can be managed but we we lack the the the proper body that can that can really do that that is interested in helping the Palestinians not to benefit from their suffering like that's exactly it that's exactly it Palestinians are always used as a pawn to support somebody else's power play and there there's never been a leadership that actually cared about the Palestinian people but it's about using the Palestinian cause for whatever narrative that they're pushing in whatever Direction um I absolutely agree with what you were saying and your example about UAE is is an important one because in Arab societies we're top down you know you can't do this Grassroots this has to be top down we have the leadership has to say okay we're going to be bringing in fruits and vegetables from Israel now you're going to see Israeli Flags in the supermarkets we're going to have normalized relations we're going to actually have positive relationships we're going to sing the Israeli National Anthem we're gonna you know what I mean like there there it has to be topped down and the people will follow you know because that's just the way these societies are run it's not the West you know where it's like democracy no it has to be topped down and the people with power at the top find that controlling this or creating this Israel versus Palestine it's just too lucrative having peace is not lucrative in their in their calculation right because they're not they don't care about the freedom and the and the support and the happiness and the health of the Palestinian people but they're thinking look at the billions of dollars I can get every time you know there's a bomb comes from from Israel look how much um sympathy we can get and from that sympathy look how much money we can get and then they look at it in that way they're not looking at it in in terms of what is best for the Palestinian people they're looking at it in terms of what is best for my power exactly and and I think that the new governing body of of Gaza should invest on that I uh I think that the new governing body of Gaza should should at least close the pay for slave program that we pay like tens of millions annually to Those Who Kill Israelis whether they were civilians or not we can invest this money to to to start a dialogue between the Palestinians and the Israelis and that that will benefit us on the on the long term way more than the current program benefits anyone so they have they have the necessary money and they know that the the proper way but I don't think that there is a anyone among them interested in in solving this so that that's why I always say that this Palestinian Authority should be reformed yeah I I completely agree it it it's not in their best interest to solve this problem it's in their best interest to keep it going I'm going to ask you about one thing that I I didn't um write in the questions but it's something that I that I just thought about because I think it's an important point when we start talking about having Jewish or Israeli people and Palestinian people sitting together to you know talk about a brighter future in that area of the world part of the problem is there's such a belief that the Jews want us dead the Jews hate us the Jews Don't Care About Us the Jews don't want us to live and so there's such a distrust from sitting down and having that conversation and even if they did start to find a way to see eye to eye they'd say well we don't believe them because the Jews are duplicitous the Jews are malicious the Jews are are lying to us now you know what I mean so it it really just shuts down any hope for having that that dialogue um and what I want to somehow convey to these people is let's look at the reality on the ground let's look at the lives of Palestinian people let's look at how they're treated in Lebanon for example you know let's look at how we are treated by our fellow fellow Arab citizens you know look where when you go and you work in Israel you talked about your friend he goes and he works in Israel what does he get he gets all his human rights he gets his check on time you know what I mean he gets treated like a human being what happens when you go work in Saudi Arabia what happens when you go work in Qatar what happens when you go work in any of these oil rich countries from Arabs we are not allowed we are not allowed there you go you're not even allowed and if you were allowed you're treated like dirt because like my grandfather worked in Saudi Arabia for so many years and he was always treated like dirt they have such a disdain for Palestinian people and when my grandfather died because of course it doesn't matter how long you've worked there or how many buildings you own or how many businesses you own you're never a Saudi and you never own anything so his Saudi Partners always owned 51% of all of his things and when my grandfather passed away my grandmother got nothing so this is the um this is your Arab Brothers this is what they do right they left my grandmother with nothing when my grandfather died because of course the Saudi owned everything right so it's weird that we still have this belief that oh it's our Arab um or our Muslim um they're the ones that protect us and care about us but it's these horrible Jews they want nothing but our destruction but the reality is not not that that's not what you're seeing here you're seeing when people go work in Israel that they are being treated with a respect that they don't get in their own home countries right and when you go work in in Arab countries that's where you get treated like you know what they used to call my my mom is from Egypt and she told me never tell anybody in abuki ftin that your father is Palestinian and I was like why not because I always say I'm half Egyptian half Palestinian this is my natural answer I'm born and raised in Canada and this is just my culture she says no because they are the Beggars of the Middle East that's what she said that's how people see them so we don't want people to treat you badly if they find out that your father is Palestinian this is how we're treated by the um even as as a g I'm not I'm not allowed to work anymore in the Saudi Arabia that was the case since the assassination of Al I remember so we we are expelled we are apped from these Arab countries and they know that but everyone prefers to ler their da CLA with Israel so it's it starts with Israel I would say that Israel is a perfect country by the way of course not there's no such thing as a perfect country problem yeah but we can work with that we can fix that together if we we invested that in our educational system in our schools MOS universities we can make a change it won't happen in a in a night but it can happen it can happen on the on the long term if if it was not for us at least for our children or the Next Generation see that's my hope if I had a magic wand I would put you and people like you in the new leadership of Palestine now I know West Bank and razza I feel like are two completely almost like separate countries you know like they they have they're so different in so many ways culturally and and and and so many ways but it's going to be a difficult job for any one leadership to manage both of these areas so I've honestly talked about like we need a three-state solution because two states isn't hard enough let's try three states but I think that's probably you know the most reasonable thing right now and I would love to see people like you and the people who are all sharing their stories in you know Whispers from razza or voices from razza it's called now and you can hear that there are so many young people that are just true liberals true liberal thinkers true critical thinkers the kind of people that you just hope would get the leadership of these areas of land and then we can lead our people to Prosperity but you also know that those are the people that are suffering uff ing the most unfortunately with the situation that it is right now but but that's what I would do with my magic wand is I would put you in a position where you would be the leadership of the New Palestine I I I hope so I I I I'm I'm honest about it I'm not feeling comfortable here in Europe I want to go back to Gaza but with the current situation I think it's possible yes I hope that the the new government govern body would would have the the the same thoughts because the the the problem with them is that they want to to to keep the the corruption situation they don't want that to change even when they started a new government right now when I asked about the the new prime minister everyone I asked he said this guy is a corrupt he's known for corruption so they want to keep this corruption State and the problem is that even the Arabic media is not helping they do not even have any anyone believes in peace on their on their shows I was rejected by almost all the the Arabic media on the other hand the Western media many of them invited me and I was shocked because they are interested only in showing the extremist to somehow show a different picture about Gaza or something different from the reality of Gaza the the the people who believe in peace exist but we don't don't have any opportunity to show ourselves that's why I continue to to to to do more interviews to to write more pieces because I I want people to remember that there are civilians in Gaza beautiful thank you thank you so much Hamza and we could not appreciate you more you know this except for Sam Harris more people have signed up for this podcast than I have in any of my podcasts in the past so you have a abundance of supporters from all around the world and you know we are 100% behind you one thing we don't talk about is how difficult it is for you to be leaving your Homeland and living in Germany now like yes you're free you're you're safe your body is safe but completely different language completely different culture completely different weather completely different food like it's a it's a trauma it's a shock to your system and how your heart must bleed when you're see seeing what's happening in your home and you're so far away too and and how helpless you must feel in this time you know but what you're doing is incredibly important you are a vital vital voice you're bringing light to such Darkness you are you are proving these people on the right and the left that think that and Hamas are the same thing you're proving them both wrong by showing Yourself by very very bravely showing yourself and speaking up for these civilians inza and I I couldn't I cannot thank you enough I commend you I appreciate you I honor you I'm so grateful for you thank you thank you thank you Hamza and I also want to thank you for for giving me the opportunity to to deliver my message and I hope that maybe when the war ends more Gins will start to speak and I'm sure I'm sure about that and the the W will listen more about about the from the Gins so I really appreciate that you gave me the opportunity and I also appreciate the work you have done because I saw many great interviews I saw the interview with Ahmed and everyone so I really appreciate what you are doing thank you so together we'll we'll do our best to try and and change the narrative and um yeah and I'm very grateful to you it's there's no un underestimating how much more difficult it is for you than than it is for me and I'll never you know I'll never forget that it's I'm I'm really really grateful to you so thank you again Hamza and um this is not the last time we're going to speak we're going to continue this conversation and uh soon I'm going to be seeing you on all of the Billboards and headlines as the new leader of hza I hope so thank you yes inshallah after hearing all that you might be left wondering what can I do how can I help well this is why I created a nonprofit called free Hearts free Minds we are the only organization dedicated exclusively to helping these free thinkers we Empower them with our programs and supportive Community lifting them up so they can heal speak out and begin to make positive changes not just in their own lives but within the broader Community around them if this is a cause that resonates with you and you want to make a difference one way to do that is by donating to free Hearts free Minds because not enough people care about this cause we need people like you to help fuel this change you can donate via our website freeh Hearts free minds.com thank you every dollar you donate makes a difference [Music]

Channel: Yasmine Mohammed

Views: 43,216

Keywords: gender equality and women's empowerment, women empowerment, yasmine mohammed, women's rights, gender equality, women activists, islam, muslim, womanlifefreedom, forgotten feminists, Islamic Regime, honor violence, Human Rights, Islamophobia, Islamic History, yasmine mohammed youtube, ExMuslim, Yasmine, Free Hearts Free Minds, Religious Trauma, arab, world, antisemitism, Gaza, Palestine, Israel, Hamas

Id: y8s5mF-DNmU

Length: 54min 59sec (3299 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 04 2024