Gunners Shot Clips : Bhutan - Chinese Designs & Indian Pushback / Lt Gen Ata Hasnain (R)

good evening and welcome to g g where we'll see about the Chinese designs  and the Indian push back which is on there   and for this I'd like to welcome General ATA  hin once again sir good evening and welcome to   garot once again again and holy Mubarak Jay  Hind to all our viewers and holy Mubarak to   everyone thank you sir uh we'll go into Bhutan  and we'll see what's happening there after all   you know P when we spoke about you know those  five issues which have rattled China this is   the sixth issue which should be rattling China  by now and this happened just one day after we   spoke about it and I think there's a very major  thing which our prime minister has done by going   to Paro and uh you know for he spent two days  there and a lot of things have happened uh I'd   like you to First explain the significance of this  in the overall context before we get into Bhutan   and see the nties so thank you J Shankar it's  what a pleasure to be with you with you on this   program on the day of holy today um Bhutan first  of all my association with Bhutan I'm I'm happy   to always tell our viewers my father commanded  the division in bagui so he was responsible for   the defense of bhan right and I made a visit to  timu way back in 1969 I remember and took my you   know normal civilian briefings and things like  that and later in life only did I realize how   important it was Bhutan is one of those countries  in India's neighborhood which has stood by India   through thick and thin one of our closest uh um  not allies I would say Partners in the in the   subcontinent We Stand by with our Treaty of 1949  which dictates the progress of Indo Bhutan ties   it's an important nation in the various kingdoms  along the northern Himalayas along the Himalayas   as you SE Nepal sikim sik which got subsequently  merged and integrated with India Bhutan did not   and we never had a problem problem with Bhutan  ever uh there were attempts of course one of the   very important aspects is that China has resolv  his problems bought problems with every nation   of Asia except India and Bhutan and that clubs  us together as in a very important Club here   uh we have dict by 1949 treaty we have we have  guided the foreign policy of uh Bhutan and uh   bhutan's uh the access to Bhutan all lies  through Indian Territory so we've had a very   special relationship with it what is needled  to China all these years is the refusal of   Bhutan to um establish a full-fledged diplomatic  relationship unlike the other kingdoms which have   uh and to continue standing by India to be guided  by India as far as his foreign policy is concerned   and as we know Bhutan believes in you know gross  national happiness that is the national policy of   of Bhutan and they believe that it is best done  through the guidance and relationship a strong   relationship associated with India that brings  us to the year around 2017 when you find the   configuration is such of terrain Maps territories  lines of boundary lines here that China has this   area of the chumi valley which we will discuss I'm  sure subsequently sticking out like a dagger into   our very very vulnerable Siliguri Corridor area  and uh China decided that uh this was a suitable   time in 2017 the beginnings of the of the standoff  with India where we had a 72 day standoff at a   place called doam which is marked here on the map  by General Shanker and this is the place which is   located this Plateau dolam Plateau as it's  called is located between Bhutan and sikim   sikim being Indian Territory the Chinese tried  to occupy certain features to achieve some   kind of a tactical Advantage there which we can  discuss separately Bhutan did not relent we had   access to that area and we also realized that  it was an attempt to try and intimidate us to   g g get hold of territory which would give  it access into our very very vulnerable areas   in the future Etc but 72 days we stood by and  finally China had to stand down if you remember   in the month of September August September of 2017  ever since then China has tried its best to bully   Bhutan to coers Bhutan you know the famous policy  of w for diplomacy to fall to Co dipl to Bhutan   with it but Bhutan has not relented we many of us  as analysts used to continue imagining in our mind   that Bhutan would invariably relent just like  Nepal to some extent had and that Bhutan would   fall to the Chinese as a part of the um brri the  belon road initiative Etc but the bhutanese did   not I think therefore this visit which Prime  Minister Modi has made and coincident L the   first visit he made internationally in 2014 was  also to Bhutan and the last visit of 2024 before   he goes into the elections is also to Bhutan I  think it's a very significant symbolism which is there and therefore to travel there to receive the  uh award the honor which the government of Bhutan   the Royal government of Bhutan was giving to the  Prime Minister was something which was absolutely   warranted many things have trans transpired there  itself but I think the message which was going   out the Strategic message and all this that we are  talking about in the last week last 15 days these   various issues around the subcontinent which have  needled China are all about strategic messaging   there is nothing huge about about making a visit  somewhere going to arunachal Pradesh or something   but it is an effort at communication strategy  communicating your intent to to a potential   adversary who is attempting to needle you and  bully you into into thinking the manner in which   he thinks that's the way we should look at this  visit very very important visit a demonstration a   projection to the world that India will continue  to stand by its neighbors neighborhood first is   the policy that India will have and it will  ensure that China's attempts to try and and   strangulate India as far as his neighbors are  concerned is not going to succeed yeah I think   so you made the right case and that uh you know  India will stand by Bhutan Bhutan and strengthen   Bhutan to stand against China and China has  been making lot of inroads lot of attempts   to push Bhutan into a boundary settlement and our  prime minister going there just signifies India's   resolve to stand by Bhutan and and like you said  give a strategic message signaling to China that   they can't have their way right it is I would like  to put across certain things because I think all   of everyone should know it is just not that the  Prime Minister has gone there and you know he   said oh it is on the back of a lot of hard work  which we put in that indan push back is just not   diplomatic or strategic it is also tactical and  at times sub tactical so I think so what I'll do   now I'll take you through a series of maps I'll  explain the whole context and then we'll keep   discussing around that and uh you know I'll start  with this first map which I showed know to put   everyone in context out here uh you see this is a  map of the Northeast what I've shown here and the   two important points for China in this are dlam  and tawang tawang because the fifth dalama was   from there so if the fifth dalama is there Tang  becomes part of Tibet and then this becomes South   Tibet and it enhances their claim dlam because  getting hold of dlam and getting onto the jumer   rid gives a straight view into India and the it  can threaten the curri CER as shown in the map   so these are the two major things when you look  at Bhutan you have to focus so Bhutan is super   critical to the because either side of Bhutan on  either flank of Bhutan sits the two major you know   friction points or thrust points or Ambitions of  China okay and if you see onto the right from the   tri Junction of Bhutan Myanmar and Tibet till the  tri Junction of Bhutan India and and uh you know   Tibet is the McMahan line now which the Chinese  don't accept at this point of time by and large   the mcmohan line is demarcated everyone knows  where the macmahan line is because it's along   the crest line except at the place of p tawang and  why is it not very clear at tawang it is said that   the you know surveyor sir who was doing the survey  of this area he fell in love with a monpa girl and   after that forgot to make that thing and he left  it for all of us to resolve but then that is what   we have inherited so that is how it is so what  we'll do sir we'll see what are the areas what   are the problems uh you know China has with Bhutan  this is the areas of to difference at jarong and   panglong China has occupied in bh's territory  which is about nearly 500 kilometers in two blocks   in the left it has encroached into about 300 kilom  of in dolam which we'll talk of in a little while   and now recently it has laid claim to sang which  is 100 kilometers well within Bhutan and south of   Tang and we'll explain the significance of this a  little later because people should understand why   bhan is important why our prime minister has gone  there what the Strategic significance of all this   uh right now when you look at this thing you  find all these articles coming out where Chinese   Villages uh are being constructed at a pace  which outpaces the talks why is it outpacing   the talk to put treasure on Bhutan you look at  this sir this is the one of the villages in the   North in pasum lung right this left picture is  of 2020 and the right picture of of 2023 you see   the amount of expansion of these Villages which  has taken place similarly the other one at jakar   this is the picture on the left in October 21  and today where it is how big it has become so   if you see China and the north has expanded its  Villages and it is you know putting pressure on   China sorry it is putting pressure on Bhutan and  their condition is we'll give up all this if you   give doam to us and give access to SOC see their  thing this is given to you but give us that okay   now these are the two flanks we'll just I'll just  run through it and then we'll discuss each one of   them now this is the area of you know the chumbi  valley Siliguri Corridor Nepal sikim Bhutan and   the dolam plateau or as it is now known as dlam  and Tibet now the thing is chumbi Valle as you   rightly said there's a dagger which comes down  now the thing in this is the lellow line is the   boundary between India and Bhutan or India and  China this is the earth while boundary between   sikim and China the thing about this boundary is  it is demarcated it is demed it was delimited when   sikim was there so there no thing but on the right  the black line is the boundary between uh Bhutan   and China which is disputed the original line  comes in the Inner Line where uh China is expanded   as the outer dotted line okay now people must  be wondering that they can come China can come   and hit the Siliguri Corridor but look at the  closer look you see the valley and you see the   ridge line on the left that is the sikim ridg line  which consists of natula and jalapa on the right   are equivalent Heights at about 14,000 ft with  one major pass called tremola and the Chinese   have to come up climb up and then get hold of  jum and then go down uh your views on this and   first and foremost I would like you to explain to  the readers I mean all our viewers whether China   can really do that and is this a threat which we  really you know which is made of or is it okay   it's there we can handle it your views sir thank  you uh first of all you put it together very very   well I must say my uh experience goes back to  the time when I was a young company commander   in the area of natula yakla from there which used  to go down in those days there us to be another   division on the other side of K which used to be  existing there and so this area was not under our   division but subsequently obviously this area has  all come under the division in gang talk now the   important thing here is why is China needling  Bhutan on this particular on this particular   boundary for whatever other reasons there can be  reasons of grazers and their and that this is that   the Tactical part of it is the most important  this is the shortest route that the Chinese can   use to try and cut off the Siliguri Corridor you  see when we were discussing the importance of Bo   perhaps one thing which I I missed out perhaps  telling you was the connectivity of the rest   of India with the Northeast is through the  Siliguri Corridor as you can see here and the   vulnerability of the Siliguri Corridor to the  closest point from Tibet from the Chinese side   is through the chumi valley it's as close as a  crowly distance of about 50 kilometers right the   Jami Ridge is the area from to which you have  to climb from that side and from there to come   down to towards our side but subsequently you  can have infiltration and all kinds of things   which can go on simultaneously the issue is you  can't come and cut off a national corridor of   this kind with few tactical and subtac actions  this will have to be a large scale offensive   which will have to go but if you launch a  division or a core siiz offensive through   a constricted area like the chumi valley  with the Indian state of Sikkim on your   West and Bhutan the friendly state with India on  the East and through this constricted area you are   asking for problems tactically it is absolutely  unsound to try and wedge your way push your way   through a narrow constricted Valley and leaving  your rear open completely all that India will have   to do is to then just shut off the rear and block  off all the troops that the Chinese have been   able to induct towards the CH the the Siliguri  Corridor now therefore there's a need for creating   the space for manua right even in the mountains a  lot of people will tell you it's not so there is maneuver right you need space you need space for  your Logistics you need space for your launchpads   etc for your guns General Shankar is a gunner My  Old 41 J right he the one who taught me a lot of   Gunnery the guns are required here ammunition  is required the moment you talk about gun you   need ammunition so space is the biggest constraint  and then you need to have your flanks reasonably   secure that you can only secure if you got space  to do so but here if you got a narrow constricted   carot Coro obviously those who are sitting on  the Heights on either flank are going to come   down on you very very heavily so this is going  to be an ongoing thing from the Chinese side   to think that doam in 2017 we resolved oam is is  a Misa we obviously did not resolve it after 72   days the situation developed in such a manner  internationally there was the brick Summit and   things like that which happen which were happening  in China and uh they somehow brought brought down   the pressures of that particular time but they  have continued to build up Assets in this area   although those assets are right in front of  us they can be seen by the naked eye right   in front of us building up those assets to be  available to us to take on regular observed   shoots is something also which is a very very  debatable kind of a military decision that they   have taken so this is the situation as far as  dolam is concerned and this threat of trying   to get this territory which the bhutanese  territory to create a tactical Advantage for   themselves will continue quite to quite some  time unless this whole issue can be resolved yeah and the thing is they'll continue to make  it as a psychological issue it's not a feasible   issue so I'd like to just highlight one thing  you know way back in 90 I mean 2001 when I was   doing the higher command course you know in  a war game in higher command I was made the   Redland Commander as a Chinese commander and  they said okay now you plan for the for China   and they gave me all the troops everything  he says we want you to cut off the Siliguri   Corridor I tried my best sir I must tell you  this I couldn't achieve it what I just want   to prove what you're saying it's not easy for  any Force to come through the chumbi valley in   strength and you know whether the fire along  this narrow Corridor where there's no space   for deployment small troops might come small body  of troops might come and I still remember telling   someone I said sir anyone who goes through chumi  Valley is going through a oneway street because   he'll never come back India will just catch them  and put them wherever they have to be put so it's   not an easy thing for them to do and you know  in uh you know 2017 like General hin was say   this is the location of the standoff if you see  if they had gone come to that standoff and gone   ahead then they had easy direct access down to the  South but now they have expanded to the west or to   the right as you see the map and in the you know  and little expansion and that takes them along the   AMU which is goes to the you know West and then  comes it goes away from the Siliguri Corridor so   actually we are pretty strong out here and uh  you if they have to go into that they have to   go into another narrow Valley and where they'll  have all problems so for those people people who   think that CH the chicken neck can be cut off and  the Siliguri Corridor can be cut off and all that   I mean that is wishful thinking for China I just  like add one thing in this of course the Chinese   are Adept at infiltration in 1962 much of what  happened was because of infiltration you see my   unit was fighting the action on the other side  of saah uh at this famous place called nuranang   just but subsequently we found after beating back  the conventional attacks all the infiltration to   place around us the Chinese are adapted they could  do the same thing here but at the same time just   remember at some stage even infiltrated troops  require to be maintained you see infiltration   trated troops can't go to the other end of the  world and go to Bangladesh and say we are going   to don't take over Bangladesh they will require  guns they will require ammunition they'll require   water and they'll require food yes in today's  environment you can supply it with drones to   some extent but no it's Force cannot be sustained  forever in this manner you have to open ground   routs and ground routs through the chumi valley  are near ey impossible yeah so this is where we   are militarily we have given great strength to  Bhutan so that's the first part okay now we'll go   back we'll look at the taang part look at the Sak  Sanctuary the Sak CH Sanctuary is 100 kilometers   inside Bhutan it with no Road connectivity from  the border almost negligible Road connectivity   nothing it has got no continuity with the China  at all yet they have claimed it and why because   it's in the area of Tang you know this is it  China laid claim to S Sanctuary it is not you   know this headline is a bit of a misnomer with  strategic eye on do lam it is not so sakang has   got a you know deep meaning we'll explain that  now this came about in 2020 when things were   going hot in eastern ladak before that China  never had a claim on socking the only places   of their claim was on the North which I showed  and doam they had encroached by then because   2017 happened dolam happened 2020 uh is what I'm  now talking of so they had three years that spread   now this is saking have a look at saking it is  a flat open Valley right and where I you know   you can easily paradrop a set of people okay okay  now why is Sak thing important I'd like to explain   and I'd like to explain in as an extension of what  general hman said his Battalion was there south of   Tang at this place called between norang and Jan  God and they fought a valiant battle right and   they defeated the Chinese in the initial phases it  was only when the infiltration took place that we   we got you know stuck and you know chaos happened  and things like that but how did it happen   understand this and I'll explain to you what is  the relationship between what happened then and   what might happen tomorrow what's the plan Chinese  plan ahead you see when the in 62 when the Chinese   came they came along three axis one was along the  Kenan axis which is the taga uh hatla access the   second was the bomla AIS directory to taang which  is the two main axis they also came from Tunga   very high pass it's about 6,000 plus kilometers  in fact I've been there myself sir when I was   a young officer uh and I'm not so young in the  sense i' I've been there in about 92 it's about   at 6,000 plus and they came through this and  when they came through this they you know came   further down to a place called Mago from Mago in  1962 they came down to a place called pingla one   grou one you know body of troops came down to  a place called sapper next to sapper there's a   place called MAA Camp they put a roadblock there  they put a roadblock in another place called nuk   madong all this happened when the attacks from the  north were going on as a result there was panic   in India right we felt look they Chinese behind  the Chinese ahead and then the whole thing you   know the Fiasco happened what are Chinese doing  now look at this this is suck thing now you   see the yellow lines the idea for them is do a  paradrop in s where the area is there and from   there occupy the same road you know which goes to  Tang from the plains at somewhere maybe not nadong   and sapper but somewhere there and then do a link  up through the ground or whatever however they're   planning so that if you see this is a mirror image  of whatever they did in 1962 so your views on this   and then we'll see how we have we are defending  s thing you have described it so well almost like   uh staff college or like the higher command kind  of briefing which is given there I would two or   three points to add here number one in 1962  it is between SAA and sapper camp this area   where my unit which has coming down in two columns  that time the famous 62 Brigade commanded by Bri   hushar Singh was divided into two columns for the  withdrawal and uh one of those columns got stuck   very badly between sapper and saah that's where  we lost a large number of our officers Jos and Men   and the second column most of the second column  actually moved into the bhutanese territory and   came out from Bhutan the southwards right so it's  an important aspect which you have said there are   lots of routes which are leading from sakang all  the way towards the road which is coming going   between sapper and and tawang and now with the  tawang tunnel with the SAR tunnel you see with   the swn this the road connectivity is 247 and  there will going to there's obviously going to be   improve improvements in the overall connectivity  as we go into the years Hereafter but having this   Presence at Sak uh doing a paradrop there and in  coincidently I have interviewed a large number   of prisoners of War of my Battalion of 1962 and  uh what I learned from them is uh survivability   of the pla soldiers of that time they may be much  softer today pla soldiers of that time they only   survived on a thing called satu right you know  what is satu they all survived on this and they   came with with satu loaded on their backs this was  the only thing for 15 days that they were eating   there of course they can live on very little but  at some stage as I said you require a regular   resupply and therefore as you can see there is  no connectivity that is available to sakang in   future they would plan it if they laying claim to  it they would obviously plan to achieve some kind   of a connectivity so that you can have an initial  paradrop and subsequently connect up with to the   connectivity out here this will make our roads  The Roots leading to tawang extremely vulnerable   and the fact that he calls tawang and he calls  this area around tawang is all as Southern Tibet   only substantiates his thing you know he tries  to add more and more weight to it he's adding   more and more weight to it now by laying claims  to this portions of Bhutan so that in future he   can only expand his CL lines yeah yeah so this is  where his design is what is his design these are   the Chinese designs we are now seeing and in doam  we've told you what the Indian push back is we'll   now tell you the push back here also so that you  understand there's a push back military push back   and every push back is happening okay now now  we'll see the first push back which we already   put the card before the horse and we said that  look the Prime Minister has gone there he's going   to receive the he's already received bhutan's  highest civilian award and we've strengthened   Bhutan we have given them a lot of packages we've  also you know um going to strengthen their Hydro   power potential all that right and they have lot  of hydrop power potential okay now you also have   to understand China is aggressive here which we  have been telling you from beginning and all these   clips all or all these news extracts are from  South China Morning Post they are not reporting   what Indian Express is telling you or what Hindu  is telling you I'm rip we are telling you what   China is thinking because it's important for us to  understand what China is thinking about this whole   game okay China has also protested about this  tunnel opening which we also said earlier okay   now this tunnel we made this Tunnel right we've  described this in the last episode when we spoke   about how we have rattled how China has rattled  because of other things and now this is the sixth   issue which will rattle China it has rattled China  we'll come to it a little later now we have spoken   as you know otherwise you see the road from the  plains to tang and to bomdila that is on the Lac   and where s tunnel is okay now what we have done  here last year is we have you see this this is   the official intimation of the gazr core which  is situated in tpur what did they do they opened   a firing range in this area this is their actual  this is what we have done already one year back   and what is that they have we have fired there  they have carried out F surveillance and Firepower   exercises and which Special Forces and Aviation  and also Central armed police forces last year   and they fully we are now fully prepared here what  do significance of this look at this this is where   you I have shown the guns this is where the guns  they fired from earlier we never had this you see   the red line that's the road from you know bumila  and you know planes going up to SAA SAA tunnel is   at the top I've shown it here okay where are we  firing here that area have shown where is suting   it's in line where are the likely Road Blocks  which are likely to come up or which they were   aiming at or which came up in 1962 are there I  have marked two one is at the other is at mon   now with our guns there and with people there and  our exercises which we've been carrying out and   the central armed police forces also synergized  into our plan Fring all these places cannot be   occupied if they are occupied they they'll buy it  so your views on this on this whole story which we   have done and where we had already given a push  back to China absolutely now this is it's it's   it's a good very good terrain study I think which  has been done uh keeping in mind what happened in   1962 because as as I was explaining to you 62 was  all about this road and this connectivity the the   uh rapid Panic which developed because of the  infiltration now that infiltration I suspect is   something which is going to again be one of the  major aspects of P of Chinese strategy in the   future therefore uh preempting it understanding  what the importance of it is and then catering   for it by establishing certain bases familiarizing  yourself establishing the even this the the basic   infrastructure of Roads tracks Etc they don't have  to be highways leading to those areas the Army   just needs basic roads class nine roads perhaps  class 18 roads leading up to those areas where   you can set up your shelters you can set up your  small camps Etc and from where you can carry out   your foras if required that is the manner in which  domination is always done you would have always   heard this terminology domination it is very often  used in the Palance of of counter Insurgency and   counter terrorist operations but in conventional  operations also remember you are not tied down   to this thread of this road leading up to the sa  pass or the tunnel and then exiting from there   you have to look at both sides the flanks and  particularly here because the flanks which are   coming from Bhutan that's the flank which is  the vulnerable flank here so this is what is   being looked at and I'm sure this is only the  beginning no it's only after the claims have   been put to sing that they have done this kind of  a thing and this will probably build up more as   we see construction of more roads in this area you  will probably find much more many more steps being   taken to provide flying protection make sure that  the higher hilltops Etc are occupied not only by   this by physical occupation but also by ensuring  that you have your your antennas your aals you   got your radio relay in place in the future you'll  have to cater for your drones and see your drone   facilities will have to come up in these kind  of areas all this is looking at the futuristic   aspect and I'm glad that Eastern command and  four core are up and about and doing this very   professionally yeah and you have to understand  the moment you have the ability to get guns up   here actually sir in this area where I've shown  the gun positions Road has come up till there come   up till there and come up till there and maybe  it's gone a little Beyond also which I really   don't know I'm sure it would have gone up by now  and they've taken buffers also there they fight   buffers here so the moment you have have this  kind of a ability that you can take long range   guns here right and now you see [ __ ] thing it is  on one flank you're you know you can get to that   on the other side also you'll be able to fire 4  kilm is a big thing you can now fire on the other   side of the road north of the road if there's any  incursion from there or men can go or infantry   can go and actually you know block people at Shing  itself because they will come when if the Chinese   do come and do a Airborne operation and all that  first and foremost if they do it now they'll get   S out of the air itself that's a thing the way  we are going about things that we should be very   clear even if they do establish a base out there  everything your our infantry can go and block   them and we will have the complete ability ability  to fire with and support them with our artillery   which the Chinese won't have I would add one  thing here J shank you see uh this is where one   is reminded about communication strategy which I  spoke about in the beginning lots of actions that   we are taking and demonstration the Chinese are  adapted it as you are aware they adopted this 1993   doctrine of War under informationized conditions  uh which has led from one thing to the other and   you see even at the height of April May 2020 the  demonstrations that the pla was carrying out in   depth behind Eastern ladak 100 kilometers behind  firing demonstrations U drills mock drills being   conducted few things here and there moving around  drones moving Etc it they thought that this can   all cow down the Indians that see a huge kind of a  demonstration of Technology Etc now is the time we   have I'm glad we have we have done some of it but  we need to do this I think more professionally and   projected to the world we are we are not behind  we are not behind in anyway in four years time   since 2020 we have made tremendous strikes and the  Chinese should be very clear about it that India   has made huge Stripes this thing which is worrying  them of adding 10,000 troops in eastern ladak is   something which is obviously a flow out from this  this fact that they were not expecting the Indian   response to be so so quickly quick after after  2020 no sir not only that what I'd like you to   highlight to everyone is now you have a capability  of Defending Your rear you have the capability of   taking your troops forward 24x7 through the SAR  tunnel so actually you have done something more   overall strategically I think we have pushed the  game farther you know a lot of lot of people think   that we are talking a lot of tactics and lot of  strategy online but uh they do not realize that   this is what is the correct projection to  generals of the Indian army who know these   areas speaking about this is a good conveyance of  our strategic message to whoever may be listening   that the Indian army is not something which can  sit back and watch things happening across the   border this uh this thing which we're doing of  the Zila tunnel what we have done of the atal   tunnel what we have we have just done with the  sa tunnel is a huge thing you see tunneling in   these areas is something the Chinese have been  doing it for a long time I know but we've been s   sort of a little late in catching up but we have  caught up down and now that a tunnel like the sa   tunnel has been constructed there 247 365 days of  the year we can we can supply resupply and ensure   the reinforcements are there otherwise uh given  certain given terrain conditions given climatic   conditions there would be moments when the  entire Tang sector would be actually cut   off and you would have nothing except dependence  on your stocked supplies and on whatever troops   are available there at that particular time to  fight it out it would be virtually suicidal and   we've done it all these years but now with this  availability of this tunnel it's a game changer   as we discussed in our last episode also  it's a complete Game Changer yeah not only   just think there Lifeline to our troops up you  know who are on the Lac is through this road now   that like General H said that road is through  it can't be cut off and you know it can't be   cut off by weather it can't be cut off by enemy  also that's the kind of a thing that means your   Logistics route right to the front lines are  strong and after once our men who are on the   Lac are clear that they're going to be supplied  resupplied with ammunition everything then the   Chinese can take a walk and they can take a walk  the other side that's the way I've looked at it   and I've walked on most of these routes and I  know how well trained our men would be now and I   did it I'm talking of 30 years back but now things  would have changed because a lot of infrastructure   has come up everything has come psychologically  psychologically our men our viewers should know   psychologically physically the capability of  our men to undertake the kind of rigors which   this terrain offers I there are not many people in  this world not many armies in this world I doubt   the pla has that capability to sustain itself  capability I have no doubt sir I've served along   the LA I've served in three you know the Eastern  ladak Area I've served in the central sector I've   served in Sikkim and I've served in this very  area wherever I've seen the pla there have a   lot to left to be desired and I think we have a  tremendous Advantage here and add to this I'll get   back to what we started with or prime minister's  visit and where does that lead the whole thing   and then we'll take some questions after you  you you give a strategic WP to this whole issue   you see we discussed uh the five issues which  could be needling rattling the PLA and the Chinese   leadership Etc uh at that time of course we also  included the maritime Zone and we looked at the   Continental area we explained it in Fair depth to  I will bring in a small reminder to that remember   the fact that the Chinese are comfortable  in the mountains high up in the high himal   the Tibetan Plateau on the other side is flat  open rolling territory rolling country their   Logistics is not a major problem they can come in  they brought in the railways Etc over a period of   time therefore for them it is simpler to do  anything militarily here for us it's a major   challenge because this side the Himalayas offer  much more difficult terrain Rocky uh outcropped   all over the place constructing roads Etc the only  Advantage we really have is the advantage that the   Air Force has got of having all its airfields at  much lower altitudes but come down into the into   the domain of the of the maritime areas it is  there that India has got the advantage keeping   in mind the fact that this is the Indian Ocean  look at the peninsula jetting into the Indian   Ocean see the sea Lanes of communication lines  of communication from The Straits of malakia   if you seen here Singapore kampo and from there  stretching all the way to the Gulf of Aden going   to the Red Sea or going towards the Persian Gulf  this is all under the watch of the numerous bases   Naval bases that we possess here or we've also  got them extended into the lakshadeep area we've   got the whole um theater command in the area of  Andaman and nicobar Islands right this makes it   extremely difficult for the Chinese for the pla  Navy because they are on the other sides of malaka   they have to come from all the way from that side  you can see where Hong Kong is written from there   all the way through the Straits of malaka they  don't have those kind of bases except maybe at   guad and at jibuti are the two areas and we've  seen what they've been able to whatever the Indian   Navy in comparison to the pla Navy has been able  to achieve in the Red Sea and off late in in in   anti-piracy operations the world is saying wahwah  basically for the uh Indian Navy so all this is an   important aspect uh in the last couple of weeks  this demonstration that we are now balancing   ourselves between the North that's the Himalayan  Continental belt area the Continental Zone and the   maritime Zone which is where we have our advantage  we are balancing it out we have put our focus in   the Himalayas we are not going to compromise on  territory but equally we are going to ensure that   the maritime Zone remains under our control no  one is saying that this is our territory right   we have an an exclusive economic zone and that's  about all rest of it is international waters but   forces which are not very friendly operating in  these areas against forces which are against our   interests which are working against our interest  and you can see at the moment you got spy ships   after spy ships from the pla Navy which are  entering through the Straits of malaka all being   monitored in this in these areas that's about all  they can do spy they cannot be effective from a   from an executive Navy Naval angle right so all  this has to be kept in mind in conjunction with   this fact that uh India has demonstrated its  its its capability and its conviction that it   will look after its neighborhood since we  spoke last we have also had news of muham   muu coming in males saying asking for a for a  loan from India and we have seen how is that   that whole issue progressing after asking the  Indian uh defense Personnel to leave the shores   of males he ultimately been forced to come back  here because you have to as I reminded you last   time even portable drinking water to males under  ENT conditions has been provided by India so you   can't you have to respect the region in which you  are existing can't somehow suddenly depend on the   United States of America or China to bail you out  you will have to ultimately come back to India I   think this is the strong messaging which is going  out at this particular time very very important   this messaging yeah and you have to understand you  know which in one of the last episodes uh we had   kodor was he said China has to suffer the tyranny  of distance the tyranny of distance from Hong Kong   to the gulf ofen Eden which hn also said and very  important see in the past so I must mention this   in the past three or four episodes have been  around this for some reason or other I did   one with you I did one with or Ambassador gurjit  Singh on you know the anti-piracy operations and   the maritime issues with commodor Wason who's the  director of the Chennai Center for China studies   and a lot of focus on the maritime issue what  one thing which has come out and today has come   out very amply is earlier we had this problem  of Continental wers Maritime or orientation   thinking today we are looking at a balance between  continental and Maritime in fact I put it this way   we are looking at a continental plus Maritime  Outlook and this is where a macro change in   the Indian strategic Outlook is taking place I  would like you to you know highlight this a bit   because this is a major change which many people  uh don't seem to understand first of all I must   give uh credit to one personality of the Indian  Navy who actually used these terminologies the   first time in an article and actually gave India  this whole concept of the Continental versus mared   the maritime domains that is Admiral Raja Menan  right uh way back I think it's some time in the   early late 90s or the early part of the Millennium  that you wrote this in a in a middle piece in the   Indian Express I picked it up much later and I  dwelt on it developed it much further and that is   the time when I realized that we were being a shy  we were very ignorant of our Maritime capability   and what we could achieve through that I think  the coming of the andan and nicobar command   in 2001 was an outcome of this entire thing  although it was not taken to any level it was just   the andan nicobar command was created with very  very limited resources I think one creating one   more Three Star Plus officer was more the intent  than anything else and nothing really was achieved   out of it right it's it's I think after two after  the 2014 and when all this Walken operations had   taken place after 2005 2014 this realiz ation  started coming I wrote on it many times I still   remember I wrote major papers on it in the um  in in a magazine which used to be published in   chanakyapuri I remember and people were surprised  why are you taking the side of the Navy I said   we don't take the side of each other we look at  India's interest strategic interest yeah India's   strategic interest and I as a land lobber can tell  you and one look at it it tells you that actually   it's the Indian Navy which rules the roost as  far as this is concern and I became the brand   ambassador of the Indian Navy talking everywhere  and people were always just questioning me why are   you so Pro Navy I said I'm not pro anything I'm  only Pro India right but I think over a period   of time this realization has come and slowly a  creeping balance has emerged in 2020 when all   this happened we lot of us wrote at that time to  that see all this is happening this so-called wolf   Warrior diplomacy Etc is all to concentrate our  attention towards the north because they know what   is the vulnerability in the maritime Zone and if  you continue falling for this we are only playing   up to them playing into them I think since then  a lot of water has flown under the bridge and uh   and this thinking has now cemented and therefore  what you're seeing these anti-piracy operations   a lot of people look at it whimsically and say oh  this is not against an enemy not against a fixed   enemy it's not is like counterterrorism for the  Indian army you see if I have had experience of   years and years of doing it in Kashmir I know that  those units which have experienced this kind of   a thing can go into battle and be very effective  similarly the same thing that the Navy is facing   as far as anti-piracy operations are concerned  the short of short of huge missiles being fired   at them everything is there they're going through  all the drills they're going through everything   which is required to be done by a military force  when it encount do an adversary so I think this   is very good all this which is happening in the  in this domain at the moment yeah go ahead yeah I   know I think you made made a very important Point  sir I was about to take questions but I can't let   it go the important point which you made which I  remembered I remember two years back I read what   Zen ping had written and one of the reasons  why the pla deployment at the Gulf of Eden   took place why jibuti base was established his  whole idea was that the Navy will do his pla Navy   will do deployments in this area they will gain  operational experience and they'll protect the   seens of communication and then they will be able  to go down to the next base but now come two years   3 years later what has happened the pla Navy is  there in jibuti and it is sitting tight in jibuti   it's not getting operational experience it's not  doing anti-piracy operation who's getting anti   oper who's doing anti-piracy operations  is Indian Navy who's getting operational   experience it's Indian Navy right we are the  ones who are establishing a base in agala we   are the ones who are establishing a base in minoy  we already have something at andan nicobar who's   strengthening the whole system is the Indian Navy  and you know I got a comment from someone in one   of our episodes and that was he says look look  it's not the size of the dog which matters it's   the fight in the dog which matters right and so  it's not the size of the pla which matters it's   the size of the Indian Navy which matters and I  think we are well on our way to give a very good   push back to China if I'm sure they've already got  this message and the last thing I'd like to say on   this sir and is that two days back or internal  affairs minister Mr J Shanker went to Singapore   and he spoke about arunachal Pradesh and he said  very clearly that arunachal Pradesh is ours it   is ridiculous about for China to think that it is  theirs and they can have a claim and their claims   are also ridiculous and of course there's been a  reaction from China and Global times today morning   uh so overall I think the and The Words which  uh external affairs minister used were quite   Direct and pointed something which we had not seen  earlier so far so I think overall we've done a lot   on this regard uh a couple of sentences from you  and then I I'll take questions no thank thank you   very much I think this has been a very important  series of U uh episodes which you've just done   and on gun shot because you know it gives you  as we said last time a holistic picture you can   keep looking at G of Gul of aen you can look at  anti-piracy operation you can look at lakad or   you can look at something happening in in eastern  the dark but unless you get this whole picture the   wholesome part of it only then does the public  understand it and I think the public in India is   now coming off age in terms of strategic culture  lots of us are involved in bringing this and I I   take I whatever pains I can take to ensure I go  to colleges schools wherever I can get wherever   people are inviting me I go there to speak on  these things and I find tremendous interest

Channel: GUNNERS SHOT

Views: 1,756

Keywords: #strategicaffairs, #defence, #technology, #india, #Gunners Shot

Id: ny8HbJFRHs0

Length: 54min 56sec (3296 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 28 2024