George Galloway | Cambridge Union

George Galloway is a politician broadcaster and Reuter between 2012 and 2015 he was the respect party MP for Bradford West after previously serving as an MP for 23 years for both labour and respect Galloway was described by the Guardian in 2005 as being renowned for his colorful rhetoric and debating style The Spectator awarded him debater of the year in 2001 ladies and gentlemen please join me in welcoming George Galloway to the Cambridge Union [Applause] there's a soft seat that's good so I wanted to start off the discussion by talking to you a litte a little bit about the Labour Party and about Jeremy Corbyn so obviously you were expelled from the Labour Party in 2003 and the Labour Party is now under new leadership and what many describe as a radical change in the approach to the party what hopeful do you think mr. Corbyn is going to change the Labour Party and British politics and looking back at your time as a Labour MP do you regret not being in a part of the labour party at this time well the last point is easy to deal with I never wanted to be out of the labour party I joined it when I was 13 years old I was expelled against my will I spent a lot of money and a lot of time trying to avoid expulsion on lawyers and all the rest at my expulsion hearing mr. Michael foot the previous leader of the party mr. been the greatest labour parliamentarian of all time and mr. Corbyn were my character witnesses if you like asking the National Executive not to expel me so of course I regretted being expelled but having been expelled I wasn't going to as it were retire from the field so I continued my battle in our form and as you implied in your introduction I did tell Mr Blair on the day I was expelled that he would rule the day and they lived to rue the day first in 2005 in Bethnal Green Ian Bois when I defeated labour in a rock solid seat and then again in the by-election in 2012 but I spent nearly 30 years as as a member of parliament and of course I would have liked still to be a Labour MP I think title of Labour MP is something to be I think that Jeremy Corbyn whom I've been associated with for almost 40 years and sat literally next to in Parliament for most of my time as a member of the House of Commons is a fantastic change but he's in office rather than yet in power in fact we have dual power in the Labour Party today we have the power of the members who elected Jeremy Corbyn and the power of the members of parliament who are determined to wreck his leadership which in the last couple of weeks has descended into a kind of rabble popping up not daily but hourly new different sometimes the same members of parliament seeking to wreck his leadership it's not clear what the outcome of that dual power will be you can't have two cooks in a kitchen you can't have two leaders in the same party you can't have dual power in our British political party so this will have to be resolved one way or another but it goes without saying that Jeremy Corbyn has my absolute loyalty and support and love and I wish him every success I mean drawing on from that as you said several key members of the Labour Party are trying to rep mr. Gordon's leadership and that is partly because like several commentators they believed him to be unelectable do you think that mr corbyn's personal characteristics and policies render him unelectable i really don't and it's odd that it comes from people who have themselves lost the last two elections I mean if there were wizards who had suddenly been used up by someone who was less good than them right at winning elections that would be one thing but the group around Miliband proved a miserable failure and the group around Gordon Brown proved a miserable failure so I'm not sure they're in the best position to lecture other people on what is or isn't electable I think that mr. Corben is this a good and honest man and I have known him for almost 40 years 39 to be precise I don't think anyone could credibly dispute that he's a good and honest man so is being a good and honest man unelectable I doubt that and if it is what would we prefer a bad dishonest man would that be better if if that were held to be electable what's the point in being elected for bad intentions or dishonest purposes so I have faith in the British people and the contest when it comes if God spares him 2020 will be a very interesting one and it would be a different one because David Cameron will have retired and the Conservatives having laid waste to the public services and proved even more divisive in their second term than they were able to be in first will be quite an end feeble political force I think and their leader will either be George or should I say Gideon Osborne for that is his name Gideon Osborne of the Bullingdon Club I know that's a rival outfit to yours but it's adjusted whatever but if it is it describes him I think is a pasty-faced product of the of the English ruling elite and I don't think that cuts a lot of mustard in the country or if there's a crash in 2018 which some predict there will be the leader is likely to be Boris Johnson also of eaten and the Bullingdon Club I think Jeremy Corbyn against Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn against George Osborne will be a much closer contest and the pundits would like you to believe here and now you obviously regret not being a part of the Labour Party and perhaps this can be attributed over the past few years to your perhaps some somewhat controversial comments on various issues which obviously lots of people disagree with and this brings me on to my next question which is Julian Assange as you're probably aware this Union voted recently and how they referendum on whether or not we would give a platform to mr. Assange and the overwhelming majority of our membership voted in favor and mr. sound just said you to speak here by video link on the length of November you came under intense fire from anti rate campaigners over your comment in relation to the allegations that were leveled against mr. Assange and you said that they have no basis because having sex with a woman when she is asleep is not rape you then defended these sexual allegations assault allegations against mr. Assange by stating that they amounted to no more than bad sexual etiquette I just wanted to ask you more a bit bit more about that and to ask you how you feel justified in defending that position when the law in this country is very clearly noting that consent is required every time someone has said well that's that last point is actually not the case you're obviously not a law student okay in that case in that case we've got problems it is a defense against an accusation of rape that is Noble grounds to assume consent that happens to be the law now I want to start at first principles if I me I wasn't expelled for any of these things not for any of these controversial positions I was expelled over the war and nothing but the war as Mr Blair himself has now begun a very slow creep towards the recognition of the truth and who knows an apology of sorts may follow at least to keep him out of jail I don't think that my expulsion can any longer be tenable all I did was say what has turned out to be true and therefore to not rescind my expulsion would be unjust forgive me being legalistic about that but I get asked this question all the time so I have to be very accurate in what I'm saying Julian Assange should receive the Nobel Peace Prize Julian Assange has performed a service to the world to those of enquiring mind as I presume all of you are or you wouldn't be here to every journalist in the world every broadcaster in the world Julian Assange ought to be a hero and the reason he's in this fix and it is a fix I can assure you his situation in the Ecuador embassy in a single room for all these years now is a real fix the reason that he's in this fix is nothing whatsoever to do with allegations and they are only allegations made after the fact long after the fact by women that he slept with in Sweden they are everything to do with the determination of the United States of America to do to Julian Assange what they've done to Chelsea Manning to get him in front of a secretly assembled grand jury and send them to prison for the rest of his life thus this is not a small matter now in support of that contention I I could make many arguments I make only two the first is that Assange or 3 Assange asked the Swedish authorities if he could leave Sweden when these allegations were first raised and the Swedish authorities told him in writing that he could the second is this that it was open to the Swedish authorities to do what they have done on many many occasions including in mother cases of going to a second country and interviewing someone suspected of a crime in the country in which they were the Swedish authorities have refused to do that without explanation as to why and the third the most important of all is the Assange and his lawyers sought only a guarantee that Sweden would not extradite Assange to the United States of America to face trial for treason though is not an Americans citizen on the WikiLeaks case they have completely refused to give such an undertaking so I'm asking any one of you if you would voluntarily go to Sweden which has the closest possible relations with the United States without a guarantee that they were not going to send you on to a secret grand jury in the United States where you might be sentenced to up to 100 years in prison now I believe in Assange I believe in his good character but I wasn't there and neither were you nor anyone here when these events that have been much discussed took place or didn't take place I regret the words that I used in sticking up for Julian Assange I regret the fact that those words the way that I expressed my position have given my enemies opportunities to attack me and attack him and I'm sorry that I upset some people including some that I personally respect and know that I gave them offense by the way in which I expressed my view but my view doesn't change that Assange is being set up set up so that he can be extradited to the United States no means no in sexual affairs rape is a hideous crime that should be prosecuted and if convicted punished most severely rape is a hideous thing but Julian Assange has never been charged with rape has never been charged actually with any sexual offense let alone convicted of one and I'm therefore glad that the Cambridge students did what they should have done in the referendum in the last few days and that Julian will be able to speak for himself to you on the 11th of November drawing on from that you obviously as you said regretted the way in which you try to defend mr. Sandt but as you yourself consider your comments have obviously angered and alienated several groups within the respect party and just more generally do you think given your comments and given the fact that you are the leader of this party that the respect party will be able to continue to attract women to be a part of it and engage with it and frankly the only two times I've been asked anything about this issue in the last two years have both been at Cambridge University in the last 60 minutes well I can assure you that on the streets of London where I'm currently campaigning absolutely nobody is asking me these questions but it's a very important question given what the mr. Sun is going to speak here so well that it well it is a very important question but exactly why I'm asking Julien will speak for himself I just don't think if we've got a short meeting we necessarily have to stick with this subject to the exclusion of others but that's up to you okay moving on to the next topic then um in February 2013 you walked out of a debate in Oxford on the motion Israel should withdraw immediately from the West Bank when you found out that the opponent in the debate was Israeli do you regret doing that and do you think it was right to refuse to talk to someone just because he was Israeli in that situation well I talked to Israelis all the time in fact one particular Israeli perhaps the finest is really I speak to almost every day professor Ilan Pappe of now extra University formerly professor of history - University is an Israeli Jew with whom I work very closely so it has nothing to do with the nationality of the person involved I work with lots of Israelis but my policy is no recognition no normalization so I cannot behave towards and is really supporter of the apartheid state in the way that I would deal with either an Israeli opponent of the apartheid state or a citizen of any other country I spent you might say the best years of my life underground as an agent of the African National Congress I was one of the very few people on the left in Britain who was able to travel the length and breadth of apartheid South Africa working underground for the ANC by the way every single person that facilitated my work was a Jew South African Jews were amongst the greatest heroes of the anti-apartheid struggle I could run through the names but were short of time therefore the issue of apartheid is deeply important to me I would not during the period of South African apartheid have debated with for the entertainment of a student audience or anywhere else and advocate of a supporter of apartheid in South Africa and therefore I cannot do so with an advocate and supporter of apartheid in Palestine so it's really not rocket science it's nothing to do with religion I'm working with Jewish and Israeli comrades of mine all the time it's everything to do with where that person or that institution stands in relation to the apartheid state now I'm not denying them a platform they can debate with anyone else they can do have many platforms on which to speak but not with me because my position is fixed on the experiences I had as an opponent of an enemy of apartheid ends up in South Africa world leaders I mean going on from that world leaders and international organizations have often said that the only way to rid or the israel-palestine crisis is through dialogue and discussion and cooperation that's going well isn't it your attitude of non-recognition and non-engagement almost in certain instances do you really think that this will help solve the problem and what do you see as material advantages my dear I'm not going to solve the israel-palestine question about your hundred her and just a humble agitator just a soldier that's all okay that's all if the Israelis want to speak to the Palestinians their address is the PLO and they should but if they want don't ask me to speak instead I'm an agitator trying to persuade people of the rights and wrongs on this subject that's all and my position is crystal clear I supported the Oslo agreement because I was very close to the late president Arafat for most of my life and until the last day of his I was at his bedside when he died in Paris and I supported the Oslo agreement because he persuaded me that the talk talk of the Oslo process had produced something well we now know that it produced not only nothing but the but even worse than nothing it's 20 years since the Oslo agreement and not one centimeter of Palestine is free not one centimeter of the land or the airspace on or above Palestine is free so that's not working my stand is I will not recognize a state based on the destruction of another country of another people and that's a deliberate allusion to professor Einstein who said when asked if he could be if he would be the president the first president of Israel that I cannot be the president of a state that is built on the ruin of another people and that's what Israel is somebody said to me in Parliament last year that well Israel lives in a tough neighborhood and I replied that the problem is that Israel's living on top of somebody else's neighborhood it's not that it's a tough neighborhood it's that it's somebody else's neighborhood that they are living on top of so I promised in not 40 years ago 40 years ago I promised an audience of Palestinian refugees that as long as God gave me breath I would never stop advocating their right to return home to their land their houses their country that's all I tried to do I'm moving on to some of the comments you made in 2006 when in relation to Hezbollah you said that they were not a terrorist organization and in 2008 the UK decided to close Hezbollah's military wing as a terrorist organization do you make a distinction between Hezbollah political and military wings or do you still maintain that the entire organization is not a terrorist organization how much of a chargesheet have you assembled here well it's not a charged CD just question feels a bit like a trial well good question yeah uh you know there are some contemporary burning British issues that I really hope we have time to get on we will get to that Hezbollah is a National Liberation Movement in Lebanon it came into being to drive the illegal Israeli military occupation from their own country from their own land when Hitler stood at the Channel ports mr. Churchill promised that if the invade our landed on our soil we would fight them on the beaches on the landing grounds from house to house and that we would never surrender and he was right about that and lives on in history forever because of that stand the Lebanese are not less than us they will not accept foreign invasion and occupation of their country any more than we would have been prepared to do so and you can toss around these this nomenclature of terrorism and so on I can answer it by asking for your definition of terrorism and so on but my stand is that Israel is a terrorist state it lives by the terror that it inflicted on the native population of Palestine in 1948 when it drove eight hundred thousand Palestinians out of their land out of their houses many of them into Lebanon and has continued to live by terror ever since it invaded and occupied almost one half nearly 40 percent actually of Lebanon for decades and Hezbollah chased them out of most of Lebanon but not yet all of it the solution if there is one to these conflicts now becoming ancient conflicts will have to be resolved there in the region the rest of us have a choice are we with the European colonizers or are we with their victims and with their victims okay um you obviously have been involved in politics for a long time and Cambridge is quite an active political community and political university with lots of political parties having student societies here obviously looking at Westminster politics and looking at it from the angle of the student lots of people are often disenchanted by Prime Minister's Questions and the way that MPs behave in Parliament what do you think is the single biggest issue in relation to the way Parliament is conducted that needs to be addressed immediately well I think Jeremy Corbyn has made a start on that with the new approach that he's taken to Prime Minister's question time which is frankly an absurdity please don't take this personally it flows from the kind of atmosphere that sometimes not here happens in the Oxford and Cambridge student unions of people playing games eyeing and booing kind of Punch and Judy politics with no one really believing very much in what it is they're saying or what the other person's saying they could equally they could change around in the best traditions of a debating society and argue the precise opposite with just the same synthetic passion that's no way to run a railroad it's no way to run a country it's no way to subject the executive to the kind of forensic parliamentary scrutiny that a real Parliament would do and Jeremy Corbyn has begun to do that and I think you can notice the difference and I hope that it will turn out to be more popular than the Punch and Judy affair that that I lived in Parliament through for all that time we need frankly half as many MPs as we've got we need to pay them twice as much as we pay them and we need to give each member of parliament power and each member of parliament a quedar of staff so that the professionalism of the average British Member of Parliament can be can be greatly improved most members of parliament are frankly just making up the numbers they rarely speak when they speak it's rarely memorable and frankly they do what they're told most of them it was not ever thus but it has been for the last 20 years or so in my experience more and more of the case so I'd if I could make many many changes in the British parliamentary system in this current digital age there can be no excuse for forcing people to physically present themselves in a school on a rainy Thursday in order to cast their vote people ought to be to cast their vote for elections electronically and if you can do bank transactions involving huge sums of money electronically you can cast your vote electronically and over not one day but perhaps over a whole weekend and people could be consulted via direct democracy digitally far more easily than it ever seemed possible and that should we should progress towards that if I'm the mayor of London I will erect something called the blockchain where everyone can see in real time exactly what the budget is exactly what it's being spent on and can make direct suggestions as to better ways of spending that seventeen and a half billion pound budget and there will be if I'm the mayor increasingly asked to give their view on what should happen by direct democracy more powerful select committees that are elected by secret ballot I was I think 28 years in the British Parliament but never got a seat on a select committee because the select committees are chosen by the whips and the whips never liked me even though I had some expertise in foreign affairs for example or in Scottish Affairs I would never have had a chance of being on the Select Committee and making a contribution that way I think that kind of gerrymandering has to stop the select committees have to be secretly elected democratically by the members of the House and the select committees must have more power and more stage time if you like television time than they currently do talking about the digital age and the way it has affected the way that MP is interact with constituents obviously there are kind of two sides to this coin it allows MPs to communicate with their constituents better but on the other hand say a comment that you but something that was controversial could go viral and sometimes those comments could be taken out of context but still significantly harm your reputation because of the way the digital media works so suppose my question is how do you think those who are involved in politics and anyone who is interested in going into politics should navigate working in that environment where the digital media exists and is able to disseminate whatever you say so quickly well I also support the bill introduced into Parliament by my mayoral opponent Zac Goldsmith of the right of recall of members of parliament members of one's constituency ought to be able if they disapprove of a stand being taken by their Member of Parliament to trigger a series of events that would lead to a referendum in that constituency as to whether the Member of Parliament should continue or not I'm in a and two have always been even when I was in the labour party in a luxurious position that I don't really care whether I'm a member of parliament or not I don't see it as a career I I stand by what I believe in by I obey my conscience even if I was the last man standing who believed what I was saying I'd still say it whether it led to defeat or victory is a secondary matter I think if you're going to have a parliament worthy of the name you must be confident that those who are sitting in it are saying what they really mean and meaning what they say and that was once true when I entered Parliament 1987 there were a hundred or more easily identifiable members of parliament from both sides all sides who if they stood up to say something you could be confident that they really meant what they were saying now we have a parliament where people are actually given their speeches into their hands before they go into the parliament by someone else they are told I mean I recall vividly a small vignette a member of parliament called david Winnick not by any means one of the worst members of parliament not at all he said in the debate I was there said in the debate over whether we should have identity cards he said Mr Speaker if this was a free vote tonight this measure would fall now that was a statement of fact but it was a very telling self-criticism if he had paused because what he was really saying was I'm going to vote against what I think is right because someone else told me to now if the Parliament is going to be the apex of the democratic system it must be true surely that members of parliament will neither speak or vote against that which they think is correct and we'd have a better Parliament if we had one like that I mean what you're trying to essentially get to I think is the importance of politicians maintaining the integrity you know you have obviously attracted a lot of criticism from the left and the right and everywhere for your comments in relation to the government of Iran in your work for the state-run satellite television channel Press TV now you have consistently supported equality legislation in the UK yet you continue to work for a TV channel that is run by a country and you have worked for some time for a TV channel that is run by a country which continues to actively persecute homosexual and transgender people how do you reconcile your stance on LGBT rights lgbtq+ rights with your ability to work for the Iranian state TV well four times you said state TV you do know that the BBC is the British state TV if the BBC asked me to have a show on the BBC I would of course accept it on the proviso that nobody told me what to say or what not to say and that's what I do on Press TV that's what I do with my wife on RT on Russia today we have a weekly show there no one has ever would ever and if they did it would be the end ever asked me told me what to say and what not to say so frankly I'll take a television platform on any television station even FoxNews no no I mean that as long as Fox News didn't try to tell me what to say and what not to say I even on your Cambridge TV that I had a most unsatisfactory interview with what one hour ago because I'm in charge of what I see and what I do I'm not responsible for what other people say and what they do if your charge was that I had somehow compromised my own views on gay rights then that would be a very serious charge but as you acknowledged in your preface that's not true I have a Stonewall award for being at the time one of the few members of parliament who stood up for equality when it was a very small minority of members of parliament I have a unimpeachable record I think on the rights of gay and lesbian people transgender people and that goes for whether I'm working for RT or Press TV or not so Iran is a country a great country a very powerful and important country a significant country as is being recognized now that the sanctions are coming to an end and the new international dispensation with Iran is incites within days in fact of an end to the sanctions and so on I hope that Iran will develop in the right way and that more rather than less exposure to discussions like this one that we are having now will have a positive effect you can be sure that when hangings for example are declare imminent I publicly and privately denounced because I'm against capital punishment for anybody anywhere at any time for any subject so I have been asked many times to get involved in lobbying Iran to try and save the lives of people who are being judicially mobbed up by their judicial system just like it's happening in the United States most days or happens in Saudi Arabia every day I do lobby but I also publicly speak up on Twitter and elsewhere fantastic well thank you very much for answering my questions so comprehensively I'm sure that there are so many people here who have several questions for you and since we are short for time I'm going to open the event to the floor if you have questions for mr. Galloway please raise your hand please wait for a microphone to reach you and I do ask that you keep your questions as brief as possible so we can cover a good cross-section of the room yes gentleman at the back that's you yes Thank You Douglas Morrison Christ's mr. Galloway you caused me to channel if I can have the arrogance to do that WH Jordan when I hear you speak I think the ogre stands with hands on hips while drivel gushes from his lips thank you oh not all I mean it's criticism of your old pals in the Soviet Union the embedded Czechoslovakia and I know how bad that you felt when they were overthrown in 1989 sauce they've got huge pity for you on that but it's interesting you mentioned Press TV because while you were prostituting yourself for because of you on that channel this is merely years I Love You mr. Gallagher you've had your fun it's my turn now so shut up okay you apologize okay it's it's it's it's fine for you to ask your question but I'm going to please ask that you allow mr. Galloway to respond and to please ask your question in a very rational way if that's okay so gone may I continue all right no problem well that's that's buy-in Boehner that's done and speaking of things that mr. Galloway is said you said on Press TV a couple of years ago that North Korea while you wouldn't live there which do you read you say it is in some ways a pristine society even said it was an innocent society just because it's free of American influence and you said that you were more scared of the United States than North Korea now I think mr. Galloway that I'm impressed with Europe rates because you're making yourself over to these regimes but I believe in giving people a second chance so if you would like to recount that in front not only of this audience in here above all the people watching on the Internet's then you're welcome to do so thank you well that was just a stream of ad hominem personal abuse that was one insult after another one Distortion after another one quote taken out of context after another so candidly I don't regard your question as worthy of my response [Applause] next question yes at the battle Matt's aura emmanuel whilst I understand both of your positions on Israel and on Iran state TV do you not think that you're contradicting yourself in taking this position of not talking to Israelis at all whilst taking this platform on Iranian TV where apartheid and towards women exists actually apartheid towards women in Iran is to a very very considerable a degree much less than apartheid towards women in Saudi Arabia which is Britain's closest friend in the Middle East according to David Cameron according to Prince Charles according to most British prime minister so I think you may be overstating the point about the role of women in Iran Iran is an Islamic country it had an Islamic Revolution it conducts its affairs according to what they think are Islamic norms and they have every right to do so I wouldn't tolerate Iran telling the Cambridge Union how to organize its affairs and I am Not sure that however imminent your college you are qualified to lecture Iran on how it organizes it's the principle difference between Iran and Israel is that Iran is not living on top of someone else Iran is not living in someone else's country Iran has not invaded any other country for 300 years I wish we could say the same I wish we could say the same for the last 300 days Iran is a society in change it's a very young country half of its people are under the age of 25 most of those have therefore known nothing other than em nity from Western countries who have consistently sought to interfere in their lives I'm sure you know that Iran once had in 1953 a democratic labor socialist government under dr. Mossadegh who was elected as the leader of Iran and overthrown by Britain Britain and the United States within this case Britain playing the leading role he was overthrown imprisoned and the Shah of Persia the worst tyrant of them all was reinstated on to the peacock throne and many decades of the most extraordinary repression took place which made certain that the revolution led by Ayatollah Khomeini would eventually overthrow it and and come to power so I suppose what I'm saying is Britain is the last country in the whole world that should be lecturing the Iranians on how they operate if Iran was occupying somebody else's territory if Iran had driven out what is now more than 10 million Palestinian people then I would have the same attitude to them as I do towards Israel but as they didn't I don't thank you next question yes in the front Jonathan Davis Christ years ago he said today politicians stick by their integrity they have integrity they stick by their convictions and you also said that when you arrive at the debate union a couple of years ago and find out who you were debating me you wouldn't give them any engagement I'm wondering when you enter debate on whether Israel should withdraw Gaza and when you enter that today what we expected to find it seems to me that perhaps was the nationality of the man there no no and not his conviction is the quality to leave not at all someone believes of integrity what they're going to debate who we expected fine I was accepting why did you leave I was expecting to debate against the supporter of Israel I do that every day I do it on radio on television on Twitter on facebook on public platforms in the street I have no problem about debating against people who support Israel I have no problem about working with Israelis who are against the apartheid state my problem is affording recognition to Israeli supporters of apartheid you're an intelligent audience you must be able to discern the difference between these categories so I went to the debate believing that I'd be debating against the supporter of Israel when I discovered that I was debating against an Israeli supporter of apartheid of military age who I now realize I now know served in the Israeli military I have no intention of affording recognition with such to such people any more than I would have done with a Boer supporting apartheid in South Africa I'm not sure why you're fixated on this there are plenty of other people that he could debate with just not with me next question yes at the back hi Calum Queens College you campaigned against Scottish independence so I was just wondering what you thought about the possibility any future Scottish independence referendum I'm very worried about it I did campaign hard and long against breaking up this small country of english-speaking people because I believed that it would be against the interests of both the Scots and everyone else on this island and because I'm generally not in favor or breaking up countries anyway unless there is no alternative to it and in most cases there there is I spent many months Criss crossing Scotland speaking of big meetings trying to persuade labour voters in the main to remain solid behind the unity of the Scottish and English people and we won but we didn't win by much and then two things happened that may have changed the balance the first was in the early hours of that first morning hours after the result was announced David Cameron appeared on the steps of Downing Street and made a wildly provocative series of statements which he has now put into the legislative process and which was voted on just last week I think so-called evil English votes for English members only being allowed to vote on English legislation this was wildly provocative rendering a stroke the Scottish electorate and Scottish members of parliament to second-class status and has been a big boon to the Scottish nationalists the second was the defeat of labour in 2015 in May of 2015 after all my pitch to the voters wars hang on the Tories will be out and we'll have a Labour government which will not be a perfect one by any means but we'll be much better than what any Tory government could be and that too turned out to be false because Miliband lost the election the Tories are back with a majority and four and a half years of attrition and austerity stretching out in front of us so truthfully if there was a new referendum now I wouldn't be at all confident that we could win it I would still campaign for a no vote I'd still campaign against breaking up this small country in a small world but I wouldn't be at all confident that we would prevail which is why I hope that sanity within the Conservative Party if there is any will prevail and that public provocations which only assist the separatists are not mounted from Westminster thank you next question yes back hello my name is Zac and I'm from Jesus College I have two very quick questions we've had we've heard a lot about George Galloway political views and I was wondering if I could ask you about your religious views you've spent a lot of time in the Middle East you said you're friends with Yasser Arafat I'm really wondering what you think of the the religious motivations that he had you know Islam's are inherently political religion whether you're moderate or Islamist so I'd be interested to know that the second question is about the Scottish Labour's plans for more autonomy and where you see that going because it seems to me like Jeremy Corbyn still doesn't really get what's happening in Scotland for both unionists Scots and nationalists Scots what do you think of that well Yassir Arafat was the leader of secular movement within the Palestinian movement Fatah is not Hamas was not Hamas although Arafat was himself quite a strong believer he did not conduct politics on an Islamist basis that's why Israel helped Hamas to get off the ground Israel in a sense invented Hamas they certainly facilitated it and I was there and saw it happening with my own eyes because they wanted to divide the Palestinian movement the leadership of Arafat was very widely supported he was supported by upwards of 80% of the Palestinian people he was the one unifying national figure and Israel wanted to divide the PLO and therefore foster the rise of Hamas I hope it goes without saying certainly if you watch YouTube or watch any of these shows that we've all been talking about that I do you'll know that I'm wholly opposed to religious extremism of any kind what our Christian fundamentalist or Islamist fundamentalist or Jewish fundamentalist I'm against extremism in religion as I am against extremism in politics as a whole though just like Israel was responsible for the development of Hamas the West has been responsible for an ever more toxic series of twists to Islamist extremism even mr. Blair acknowledged in the last day or two that our policy towards Iraq for example funny that didn't come up tonight what about dealing with something on which I'm in arguably right the there the the policy of the West buttressing of Arab dictatorships endless support for Israel invading and occupying Muslim countries filling the air with Islamophobic propaganda and so on these have all been recruiting sergeants you said in your introduction that in 2001 I was awarded the spectator parliamentary debate er of the Year award and the speech for speeches for which I was given that award were all in 2001 14 years ago arguing that this would happen that if we handled the bin Laden inspired atrocity on 9/11 in the wrong way we would see thousands of bin Laden's developed in fact it's been hundreds of thousands if not millions so I'm against Islamist extremism I believe we should defeat it terrorists form in the form of Isis and al Qaeda we have no alternative but to defeat it we cannot negotiate with it we have to defeat it on them on the battlefield and we should support anyone who is defeating it on the on the battlefield but that's a necessary but not sufficient response it is necessary but it is not sufficient because if having defeated extremist Islamism on the battlefield we think that we can allow the status quo ante to prevail then we'll merely be postponing the day when this phenomenon will rise up again so we need to defeat it on the battlefield and we need revolutionary political change in the Muslim country thank you we have time for one very short question yes in the front Julian's subject Peterhouse if what you believe were clearly you do believe that what this country desires in this country in fact needs is conviction politics and people speak the truth you mean what they say and it's undeniable and that is what you do but if if that is what you do why is it in case the country has not seen fit where your constituency has not seen fit to support you and reelect you but I've been elected six times to the House of Commons twice as a respect member upon and rocked in in rock-solid labor seats and I'm running for mayor of London and I'm doing quite well I promise so let's postpone that question until next May sure fantastic well unfortunately we're now out of time and we actually have another speaker event at 7:00 um thank you so much for coming all the way to Cambridge to address this union as you probably know this is not 200th anniversary year so it is a pleasure to have you here as part of the celebrations and I really hope you found the discussion engaging and I won't on behalf of everyone here I'd like to thank you for coming all the way to came we're done for speaking at the Union you

Channel: Cambridge Union

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Keywords: 1-12-2015

Id: xH31jtT69HU

Length: 57min 21sec (3441 seconds)

Published: Sat Dec 12 2015