George Galloway: On Free Speech

and joining us now the former British Member of Parliament George Galloway thank you very much for having that chair sir thank you well what brings you to Canada in 2010 well as I was saying before I was rudely interrupted 18 months ago you better explain that reference because for those who don't remember yes right well I was due to make I think five-city speaking tour I was in the United States on another speaking tour indeed I was in the United Nations building speaking in the United Nations building when I had the frankly surreal news that the Government of Canada had banned me as a terrorist and security risk which given at that time I had been sitting in the British Parliament for almost a quarter of a century must have come as a bit of a shock to the mr. speaker and Her Majesty in whose Parliament I sat as a member of the loyal opposition and later a member of the governing party it was a surreal experience just for the record I'm not sure they called you a terrorist I think they did you aided and abetted donors they called me a terrorist I have the documents and this was dealt with comprehensively later in the high court in Canada so what's changed they didn't let you in back in March of oh nine yeah now you're here well the Honorable Judge give them a 60-page judicial caning in which he found that they had misled the public that they had said one thing to the public but something different behind the scenes that the delivering of humanitarian aid to Gaza cannot possibly be equated with terrorism indeed and I paraphrase that the world would have no meaning if the delivery of ambulances and wheelchairs and medicine and the funds to keep the hospitals going could be described thus what would you use to describe real terrorism if that could be described as terrorism so here I am and of course as any bookseller could have told them the book you try to ban always makes the bestseller list the five city tour is now a ten-city tour and the audience of hundreds is now an audience of thousands and of course the pleasure honor of appearing on important television programs like this which I might not have been able to do well actually truth be told we tried to get you in here a little while ago and you did manage to get across the border this was several years ago but apparently when you got here you are I think you my recollection is you said your the task of getting across the border was so difficult that you were exhausted and you canceled on us so we're glad to have you here this time I'm chewing that chair for about six or seven years of EEO finally you're going to Jason Kenny's office as well right the Minister of citizens yes because I don't believe that he has accounted for what the judge held him to be responsible for and in a democracy it's important that ministers are accountable in fact I must tell you looking at the 60 page judgment there are not many ministers and many governments that would still be in their post after being criticized in the way that he was by the judge but hey that's the current political moment in Canada I've challenged them to a public debate he's declined the debate but just like for old our viewers when kasia's clay pursued Sonny Liston looking for the fight I'm going to take the fight to his constituency office in Calgary is he going to be there when you're there well I hope so I'm looking for him what do you intend to tell him I want to say that free speech within the limitations of libel and defamation and of course the prohibition correct prohibition on hate speech and whipping up racial and religious hatred is a very important principle in a democracy and it's the only way that the public can be truly informed about important decisions you did actually get to speak last time you you tried to come here I mean it eventually was over a video conference so yes you did get you're seeing the whites of someone's eyes is better than a video conference and I think the irony was not lost on people that here I was in the United States give giving a speech from the country which had suffered the gravest act of terrorism from New York City the place where that terrorism occurred to Canada where I was forbidden to enter well each government presumably is allowed to make its own decisions yes but not in or not yes but it's passing strange that our fellow Commonwealth government could describe a British Member of Parliament in the terms they had was the United States government was perfectly happy and is perfectly happy I can't say for sure but my hunch is that one of the reasons that Jason Kenney and the Conservative government were uncomfortable at the notion of you coming here was that they saw videos such as the one I'm about to play and is really a broadcast I just remind you of yours ok let's we'll play the clip and then obviously will surely hear your comment sure if you would Michael let's just clarify the source of the video it did say on there that it was Al Jazeera it also said it was memory remember is is really a propaganda outfit look the judge has already made his judgement on this video this video was the government's case but the judge opined I think in a way which can't be oughtn't to be contradicted that delivering humanitarian aid to the besieged people of Gaza through the elected authority in Gaza cannot possibly be equated with terrorism what I did there what you saw me doing there is exactly what Oxfam does exactly what any NGO does they have to deal I was giving this money to the Ministry of Health this is why I'm here on the source of the video you seem to question the source of the video no I'm questioning the editing of the video because like it was any well of course by editing I mean there's no video of the remarks immediately preceding the terminology you said I said everything that I said and I'm very proud to defend it but the preceding remarks would have contextualized it for you so what would the preceding remarks well that the nurses and the doctors and the hospitals in Gaza had not been paid a salary for several months so you can do this money paid for their salary the judge accepted that couldn't do otherwise the documentation was there the receipts were there the testimony from the from the nurses and the doctors thanking me and so on was all there so point I'm making to Steve is that if that is equated with terrorism then the war no longer has any meaning and that's dangerous well let's let's just really be clear here do you believe Hamas is a terrorist organization as the Government of Canada does no I don't that's not to say they haven't committed terrorist acts they have the African National Congress under the leadership of Nelson Mandela the greatest man of the 20th century committed terrorist acts but it was not a terrorist organization if you if you stop the sentence at terrorist acts you missed the point the African National Congress was struggling for the liberation of their country in the course of which they committed some acts which were terrorist acts and Hamas have done the same so how would you describe Hamas it's a National Liberation Movement trying to liberate its country from illegal six decades long occupation and to return the word Palestine to the map but you clearly deuce it sounds like you also have some concerns about their tactics and strategies well III do have concerns about both our tactics and their strategy and above all their ideology I'm not a supporter of hamas I don't want Palestine you're not a supporter of Hamas I have never in all my life being a supporter of hamas gave the money i mean i didn't give them money you've missed the point I've been making right try to get lost I get there I gave it to the elected government to pay the nurses and the doctors in the hospitals in Gaza okay I don't know you've missed this or in the government they are the they were the elected government I have said 10,000 times let me make it ten thousand and one I have all my life for 35 years in this course supported the line of the late president Arafat the deadly rivals of Hamas I am NOT now I have never been I don't expect ever to be a supporter of hamas but i am a supporter of democracy and we can't choose the leadership of the personnel they did the people of palestine must be allowed to do i'm just no excuse me is that is that i don't want to accuse you being cute with the language you're saying you're not a supporter of hamas you're a supporter of the government but the government is hamas no i'm a supporter of whichever government is freely chosen by the palestinian no people i would not have voted for them if i had a vote I'd vote to remove them from office I don't have a vote in Canada either there's no prizes for guessing how I'd vote if I was in Canada but it's not my business who rules Canada any more than it's my business who governs Palestine you're a controversial guy that's pretty obvious and it seems as if you were in the British House of Commons a long time and then in the last election in 2010 where they form the coalition government you lost and you're not there anymore do you think people are tired of you well they took a long time to get tired of me I was there for a quarter of a century I won five general elections in in two countries in three constituencies and guess what next me watch this space I'll be back as a parliamentarian again so no I don't think so on the contrary you know people wear a controversial messages caught up with you and they finally said okay we've had enough of them you came third I've been in I came third in a wholly different writing I left my writing and stood somewhere else for complicated political reasons which I won't bore you with I am drawing big crowds in a foreign country hundreds of people every night are paying very good money to come and hear me speak I don't think there's much evidence that people are tired of me if there were I don't think I'd be sitting on your show and there's no question you draw the crowds there's no question what do you think it is about your message that that seems to be so attractive to so many people coming out to want to hear you well I think the issues that I'm dealing with are central to world affairs when I started in this in 1975 I had no idea that in 2010 the question of Palestine would be as central maybe more as they were in the 1970s it just so happens that I have specialized in an area that's absolutely pivotal it's a fulcrum of International Affairs if there's no peace in Palestine there be no peace in the Muslim world there'll be no peace therefore in the world as a whole so it's pretty crucial whether you agree with my line or not it's pretty crucial that we have all the information we can before making political judgments about where we should stand now you've clearly planted your flag on one side of the equation sure the Government of Canada in its judgement has planted its flag quite firmly on the other side I'm not sure there's a more Pro Israeli government in the Western world frankly than the Government of Canada they're entitled to make that call as are you entitled to make your call so what's the problem well I'm not a state Canada is a state which ought to have a nuanced position in international wires because Canada's national interests are being imperiled by this over-identification not with Israel I'm not complaining about them being with Israel there with the Netanyahu outfit that runs if Affairs for the time being well they're with the government of Israel in the same way you're with the government of the gap there they're actually backing I'm not I'm not a backer of the politics of Hamas on the contrary I told you a minute ago that I actually opposed their political line but they were with the other guys before that they were with Olmert before Netanyahu got in there yes so it is really they have transformed Canada into a kind of embassy for the most extreme Israeli government there's ever been and yet just down the road I know you don't like me to conflate the two countries but the White House is spitting mad about the humiliation which Netanyahu is visiting on the Obama administration the whole of the rest of the world is you talked about tired pretty tired of Israeli introns yet is backed to the nth degree by the government here in Ottawa and I for the life of me cannot work out why what's in that for Canada Harper said the other day that he was prepared to pay any price he might have added kennedy-esque bear any burden in order to support netanyahu why what's in that for Canada I mean you know III don't know what to deepen his soul but I'll take him at his word which is he believes in democracies and he says that's the one democracy in the region and he's with them well that's the kind of guy he is it's a strange kind of democracy that for 42 years in some cases 62 years in other cases has occupied on other people is occupying their land in Flat defiance of international law and submit simplistic isn't it no international law is very clear in 1967 43 years ago Israel was instructed by the Security Council unanimously to withdraw from the territories they just occupied in the six-day war provide 43 years later they have not done so fighted they'd be allowed to live in secure borders such is not the case right now that is not the international law resolutions 242 and 388 have make no reference to that at all they say flatly it is inadmissible to occupy other people's territories by force you must withdraw and they have not withdrawn instead of being punished by the governments of the world especially Canada they're rewarded and lauded for this gigantic breach of international law I guess the bottom line here though is that your you've analyzed the situation and you see injustice and you have decided that in order to pursue peace in the world and give the world a better shot at peace you're planting your flag with one side the Government of Canada has made the same call they just disagree with you why is all of that illegitimate well why is the Canadian government in such a different position to the other governments in the world you yourself said and you understated it that there's no more pro-israeli government in the whole world than Canada all the other governments have decided that there has to be some kind of compromise here that there has to be some kind of recognition of what the Palestinians have suffered and some kind of justice offered to them as a means of bringing this conflict to applause don't think they deny that well they are supporting our government which is in flat contradiction to that despite the feelings of the overwhelming majority of public opinion in the world and indeed the governments of the world including the government of the United States that's an odd place to be that's all I'm saying okay let me read something Michael let's do the Globe and Mail quote here this is Mike Blanche Phil writing The Globe and Mail back in September talking about you he said had he been really serious he certainly would have attempted to come to Canada in 2009 and do the job he wanted to do his real job was to actuate a PR stunt which he was successful at said Bernie Farber chief executive of the Canadian Jewish Congress you're I think you said it yourself in a sense getting banned was the best thing that happened to you you sell more tickets he somewhere books now as a result of it so was getting banned a PR stunt as the as your critics have suggested well you'd have to ask the people who banned me I didn't ask to be banned but did you enjoy their fruits of it no and would much rather have avoided being branded terrorists and a security risk across the whole of the world which had very serious consequences for me was used ruthlessly by my opponents in the general election last May it caused me a delay at every international border that I thereafter it helped you lose the election yes my opponents ruthlessly deployed the fact that I had been branded a terrorist in Canada and something that happened in Canada affected a UK election yes and and I will be seeking redress for all the inconvenience and harm and damage that I believe I suffered as a result of that are you good news for the taxpayer in Canada is there are anything I get I'm going to spend in Canada so I won't be leaving the country are you gonna sue Jason Kenney yes we're working on a series of lawsuits across several fronts abuse of process breach of privacy defamation and these cases will make their way through through the Canadian legal system not that I want to give you any fuel for your fire which clearly is still burning bright but okay Michael let's put up the next graphic here attention-grabber this one's called at this point I'm going to wait for the lawsuit to actually be filed before commenting on its contents mr. Galloway's last publicity stunts involved him wearing a skin-tight red leotard on Celebrity Big Brother and then pretending to be a cat licking milk from the palms of a b-list celebrity Minister Kenny has no interest in getting entangled in another one of George Galloway's desperate cries for someone anyone to notice him that's Kenny's communications director who said that does that change how you view a potential lawsuit no because these are not the these are the everyday knockabout of political jibes I've got no problem with anything you quoted there except to say that mr. Kenny can write run but he can't hide he's already entangled with me whether he meets me in debate or not his name will forever after be associated with mine at least so far as I'm concerned the defamation I'm talking about is the defamation that I am a terrorist that I am a security threat I'm neither and the judge has already found that so we're coming together do you give aid and/or comfort to terrorists let's let's acknowledge what the court said you're not a terrorist but do your words your actions your financial contributions give aid and comfort to terrorism well if I was giving aid to terrorism I'd be a terrorist so it goes without saying because I'm not a terrorist that I don't give aid what I try to do is drain the swamp in which terrorism is breeding and this is the fundamental point so far as I'm concerned Western double standards and injustice and occupation and war is filling a swamp with hatred and bitterness in which terrorism is breeding I said four days after 9/11 in hours of comments that if it was a question of just going to the Tora Bora and kerpow this mephistopheles could be knocked out and our problems would be solved that would be very much easier than the problem we actually face which is that there are millions tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions of Muslims who are boiling with anger and rage at the double standards and injustice of Western policy towards the Muslim world and Palestine is up heart of that so I'm actually the anti-terrorist I'm the person who's saying that unless we drain the swamp doesn't matter how many fly swats we invest in the monstrous mosquitoes that are coming out of that swamp we'll get through tell me your view on this though if if you believe the Government of Canada is too one-sided in the middle eastern question and needs to put some water in its wine could they not say the same for you that if both sides moved a little closer to the middle and spoke a little less harshly of the other side the chances for peace would improve but I'm not a state if I was the Prime Minister of Britain I would not be able to campaign one-sidedly for one side of this argument I'm an activist trying to change the balance of public opinion in the world so that the governments of the world take a more balanced and fair stunt I understand it's a fundamental if I appreciate that you're not a state but you're probably better known and more influential how many members the House of Commons are there six hundred and some-odd you're probably better known than 95% of them so you do have influence beyond your position I'm I'm trying to rally support for the Palestinian people so that we can effect a change amongst the states towards that area and I think I've been reasonably successful over the last 35 years that's why the blindest supporters of Israel hate me so very much we've got a few minutes left and let me try one more thing with you and that is this I'd like to talk about your suggestion that if the israeli-palestinian issue could somehow be solved we'd be living in an extremely different world I don't have to tell you there are those who believe that that's just not the case that even if you were to solve the israeli-palestinian thing you know al Qaeda is still out there Iran is still out there trying to develop the bomb you know Iraq well you know it's not what it was under Saddam who's staying is still a long way from a Jeffersonian democracy there's still lots of problems in that region of the world and if Israel Palestine were to resolve itself where's the evidence that somehow the angels would come out and start singing Hosanna no I didn't say it was the only problem I said it was the central problem there are three things that we could do I've got a three point plan first of all justice for the Palestinian people second the withdrawal of Western occupation forces from Muslim countries and the third which I believe is fundamentally in the long term the most important of the three we should stop propping up the corrupt kings and the puppet presidents who rule as dictators most of the Muslim world from one end to the other it's because we are identified as the armourers as the financier as the diplomatic and political red carpet rollers of all these tyrants that the people of the Muslim world regard us as hypocrites as employing double standards the so called democracy fighters in Iraq but supporting the tyranny in Saudi Arabia where there's no freedom or Liberty or democracy of any kind and never will be as long as we keep the tyrants they are in power and I could replicate that cross sure dozens of examples just tell us the three-point plan I understand tell me where you think Western troops are occupying what was it his land my country as you were saying or Muslim countries Afghanistan supporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine Afghanistan theoretically Western troops are there on the invitation of the Karzai government we impose the Karzai government frankly that's beneath you that's an absurd contention we invaded occupied the country and placed Karzai in power okay but do you believe polls pork because polls in Iraq and Afghanistan I'm told obviously depends what's want you to look at say that there's a great deal of support for having those troops there still for a while until things get more secure I don't see any evidence to support that at all I don't know which pose they're giving you I wish I could at the moment but I've seen the the facts on the ground that this Taliban which is not being trained by anyone far less the brilliant trainers of the Canadian Armed Forces is winning this war on the battlefield so much so that we're now talking to the Taliban the people we went there to extirpate we're now practically begging to come to the negotiating table and agree a settlement with us I'm not against that by the way I think it should have been done years ago but it's a measure of the fact that our attempt to impose Karzai the most corrupt vote stealing pocket filling drug-dealing warlord appeasing leader in the world has simply not grafted on in general Afghan she's off the fence and tell me what you really think about him well his brother is yummy like a main drug dealer he's telling me we gotta go to government of warlords I'm sorry I've got on too long not at all not at all my fault for not bringing it to an end on time as they say mr. Galloway we're glad we finally got you in that chair and it's early to meet you thank you for your time sir thank you

Channel: The Agenda | TVO Today

Views: 77,633

Keywords: TVO, TVOntario, Agenda, Steve, Paikin, current, affairs, analysis, debate, politics, policy, Anti-war, Activist, Middle, East, Politics

Id: StjQI6lcwO4

Length: 25min 1sec (1501 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 23 2010