Ford Dealer STUMPED...REFUSES WARRANTY!! (Part 1 - Intermittent Charging System MALFUNCTION)

hi everyone welcome back to Pine Hall out of Diagnostics we have something new and fresh today 2021 Lincoln Corsair front-wheel drive 2 L EcoBoost only has 25,000 mil on it so you might ask why is this here isn't it still under warranty well interesting story let's read the customer complaint he brought a whole booklet of notes and visits to the dealer and we're we'll see where this goes I'm not sure we'll be able to pinpoint this one because the problem is very intermittent all right first let's read the summary from the customer this is uh from the appointment form that people fill out online so 2021 lincol course air 4-cylinder automatic problem charging system service soon light comes on intermittently has happened at least 12 times now 12 times in 3 years so like less than once a month dealer first blamed on in the weather hot and humid second time loose alternator bolt several times message would go off and without it on dealer did not uh the car next time to dealer they replaced the grill shutter actuator so this an active Grill shutter okay next time light went off when they plugged in the tester couldn't find a problem next time car would not start in the garage Lincoln service came to jump start but would would stall went put into reverse ended flat betting it to the dealer dealer replaced the battery next time light came on called Lincoln Motor Company to start a buyback case they convinced me to have the dealer look at it one more time before they could start the procedure I did this dealer and a Lincoln rep said the grill shutter was bad again and replace it on October of 23 Lincoln Motor Company assured if it happened again they would do the buyback happened again but when I called Lincoln Motor Company I was told that was beyond the 3-year Maryland Protection Law still have several months of warranty left and my wife loves the car otherwise he'd get rid of it I can't blame him I know it's an intermittent problem and hard to diagnose but possibly by looking at the wiring diagrams you may be able to suggest something I could take it to the dealer for them to to correct we live in Maryland and would like to bring the car home the same day if you want it longer we could drive it up two cars and leave it so right away I'm like you have to drop it off for at least a week if this problem happens once a month I I already I told the owner that chances are very slim we're going to pinpoint this problem but I'm willing to give it a shot and at least do some basic checks do some research and you know maybe we'll actually get lucky so let's see what I'm um material the owner brought dealer receipts what codes are being set and go from there okay so the owner took a picture of the message that very intermittently appears on the dash charging system service now all right and he documented the dates when it happened so they brought it they bought it brand new in 21 happened once in 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight times in 2022 one time in 2023 so they I guess they replaced the battery and then happened once in 23 and then happened one two three times in 2024 that is insane how intermittent this problem is so dealer work they took it to the dealer they've had it there four times already over over two years I guess so in April of 22 the tighten the generator bolt attached the alternator okay next month replace active Grill shutter actuator 6 months later car would not start stay running so it looks like the battery was indeed bad they replac the battery one year later replaced the active Grill shutter again okay so from 22 to 23 it was good for almost a year isn't that crazy and now it seems to be happening a little more often let's see what the dealer found so this is from again April 22 charging system now light illuminated intermittently UND dashed Titan generat bolt tou altern Tes Dr verify concern was resolved okay so that was the first visit next month customer was in in a April due to charging issue now the light comes on as well as the battery light so something changed okay check uh cause of charging system fault battery light came on road test verifi concern hook up DTC u012d lost communication with generator a control module performed pinpoint test F F2 verify system pass with Grill shutter actuator disconnected F2 States install new grill shutter so this is the flow chart remove from bumper install Grill shutter blah blah blah retest okay half a year later in November customer States the car will not start at all so somehow the battery completely failed they replace the battery and they're like okay you're good 10 months later this is 2023 September customer stats that the charging port is not working all the time and they said all charging ports are working okay electrical system new alert charging system fault u012d again lost communication with module a pinpoint test s they're going by the same exact flow chart F1 yes F2 no gain access to connector c651 remove front bumper disconnected the connector retest the PCM found that u012d came back found that the active Grill shutter was inoperative remove the cooling module to be able to remove the shutters installed a new shutters again refilled Freon topped off coolant clear codes root tested okay mhm and that was it and now they say it's out of warranty we can't start the buyback program because you're you know I guess it's over 3 years old but the problem's been happening since the car was new or at least since it was one year old so what would you guys do here so let's do the full health report follow standard operating procedure go on all data look up this code see if it's set in the PCM look up that flowchart look up some wiring diagrams okay so today I'm using the launch x431 Pro S3 plus um because I thought it would be more up to dat than my think tool Pros which I don't even connect to the internet because I like the way it works but for this 2021 I want the latest and greatest software so let's just look at the codes instrument panel cluster says data received from HVAC invalid don't care invalid data receive from instrument panel cluster control module okay Sounder no idea what that is PCM there it is u012d 0068 lost communication with generator a control module so that's stored in the PCM and I was surprised that once you get into the PCM where is data stream where's the live data we just read codes clear codes special functions and module information this is the latest updated launch software I tried my autel the little autel um TPMS you know MK 808 that one had live data so I don't know maybe autel is ahead of the game on these linkins but for now we don't need live data let's look up the code description and wiring diagrams all right here we go so u012d L communication with generate a control module go to pinpoint test F that's what the dealer wrote in their little summary so all right here we go pinpoint test F so let's read the description the charging system supplies voltage to the battery and the vehicle electrical system through the battery cable yes the PCM monitors to generate output through a Lin communication circuit PCM uses this Lin circuit to communicate the desired voltage set point to the generator internal voltage regulator the generator also uses this to communicate the load and the air conditions to the PCM so description this is our code sets if the PCM does not detect communication through the Lin circuit this can be a result of an open or shorten the lens circuit this DTC also sets if the generator B+ circuit is open okay possible sources generator PCM wiring terminals or connectors so F1 check for vehicle for presence of Grill shutters so let me pull up the wiring diagram for this lens circuit actually I have it printed out right here so actually very simple I guess here's the PCM there's the Lin communication wire there's their alternator there's their active Grill shutter so these two items are on the same Lin single wire communication circuit now so keep that in mind so the dealer says F1 is the vehicle equipped with Grill shutters yes go to F2 go to F2 retrieve the treble codes with the grill shutter actuator disconnected so this is the c651 disconnect Grill shutter actuator so they went here to the active Grill shutter and disconnected c651 just unplugged it all right ignition on using diagnostic scan tool perform the PCM self test is the code present if no install new active Grill shutter actuator holy crap that is is ridiculous so they're saying if this is faulty and it's say it's pulling down this network and you unplug it and the code for the alternator goes away then replace the active Grill shutter what do you see wrong with that well what about the code for active Grill shutter communication there's a separate code for that and we don't we don't have that we just have the the generator code or the alternator communication code so that that's a red flag 012d that means the computer is totally happy talking to the active Grill shutter why the hell would you replace it twice because the flowchart told them so this is how the dealers operate they're just robots and they go by the flowchart so they're going to keep installing a new grill shutter every single time this code comes up and they unplug it clear the codes and oh it didn't come back it must be a bad active Grill shutter so obviously that's not the case this has been replaced twice um let me pull up the code for the active Grill shutter it's also a u code just to be 100% accurate so the strategy here I don't know what the code number is right because it never set but we will just type in shutter in the search box and here we go testing and inspection we'll show more there you go L communication with active Grill shutter U2 u284 so pinpoint test a so it's a separate code and it's you know its own diagnostic treat we don't have this code so I'm assuming if you unplug it you would get the code but they're only focusing on one code at a time so it's kind of like siloed uh we're just looking at the alternator if you unplug this and this goes away that must mean this is bad that's not the whole picture so that's that would be a completely inaccurate diagnosis um let's keep reading the flowchart so this is where we were F2 so they installed the this is basically as far as they got and they replac the active Grill shutter twice now they say compareed generator B plus circuit to battery voltage so this is um basically a voltage drop from the alternator to the battery measure connectors is the voltage within 0.5 Vols I'm sure it is it's a brand new vehicle check the generator Lin local interconnect Network circuit for a short to voltage again if this tree was either pulled up or pulled down and the whole network was down we would get both codes this u012d and the active Grill shutter code which is the um u284 and we never had that so so now logically what are the possibilities here what if we had an open wire somewhere between splice s176 and the alternator so basically four connection then the PCM could still talk to the active Grill shutter but maybe sometimes with lose communic with the alternator that's a possibility okay another option is alternator has a poor battery positive connection or poor ground so this alternator just has a fat cable going to the battery that's charging cable you know positive it's grounded on the engine block and has a Lin wire so only three things it needs to function and if it loses communication it's either losing power or ground which I really don't think is the case or there's a problem with you know broken wire here that's a possibility but again how could it be broken once a year that doesn't make any sense either or it could be a defective alternator so this there's a little computer in here it's a microprocessor inside the alternator now again I don't mean to rant but right why do they have to make everything a separate module yes you can get more information this and that but the more modules you have in a vehicle the harder it is going to be to keep that vehicle on the road as time you know goes on uh because the modules are very proprietary you know could Dorman make an alternator that would actually work on this vehicle not a chance could any aftermarket do it I would doubt it but Ford is probably going to discontinue this alternator in you know 5 to S years maybe it's already in back order who who knows and then you're screwed so this is the way new cars are going keep that in mind they are designed to be disposable if any one of these 50 computers goes Haywire a lot of them are tied together it affects the drivability of the car car and if it's not available the owner is really screwed it's out of warranty what are you going to do um so that's keep that in mind but let's go back to the diagnosis um what can we check here to give the customer or honest opinion I'm guessing we're not going to find any issues at all because it happens you know a few times a year but we can still do the basic checks all right so basically step one I want to verify wiring Integrity of this Lin wire can it carry some current like a test light um and then where do we want to check that well the only place that the problem could be is between s176 and the alternator as I said before because this line was never interrupted there was never a code for the active Grill shutter so that's that this leg is fine so how do we check wiring Integrity from s176 to the alternator what we can do is you know what's easiest to get to here the PCM is way down by the left front wheel behind you know Fender liners the connectors are all sealed and locked locked in so I don't want to go to the PCM just yet active Grill shutter connector potentially we we could go there c122 we know c122 has no issues because this leg was always good we can unplug it here and do the lad check of the wire from c122 pin 1 to the alternator itself C11 04b just a single wire connector so you install from Battery positive to here test light and we can make that a 1 amp and then here again test light to ground we hook that up this test light so 300 milliamps should light brightly this one might glow a little bit and and then we can measure voltage right here so V1 and right here V2 if there's a poor connection with 300 milliamps of current traveling through this wire we should V1 will be different than V2 V2 will be a little lower if there's a drop if if we V1 equals V2 you know within a few molts then good if if V2 is less than V1 then bad then we're going you know maybe there's a bad splice maybe c146 is affected but you don't want to disturb the harness you don't want to disturb c146 because that's could potentially be part of the problem you disturb it you fix it we're done and when you're dealing with a problem that occurs once a year or a few times a year we want to have as much you know maximize our chances of finding problem if there is a problem if that all checks out then my honest recommendation would be to try a new alternator it's under warranty they fired the active Grill shutter twice that didn't help why not replace the alternator you know it it's the dealer they can do that so let's um let's let's try that let's find c122 or C1 651 whichever one's easier to get to find that pin and s some voltage to the alternator all right so looking up the locations of these connectors c122 is right by the passenger side frame rail that goes to our active Grill shutter c651 on this harness and then c146 is over here so the engine computer is down here and this goes from this blue harness to the red harness to the alternator all right so let's try to find these and see what's easier to get to we we want to get to either the active Grill shutter or c122 and then the other side will be the alternator all right so this is how the car came to me where's the beauty cover um you know they've replaced active Grill shutter twice and that requires tearing the whole front end apart uh you know like I see this clamp right here is just kind of loose they didn't put that back on the radiator um oh there's a little rubber grommet hanging out here that probably goes to the beauty cover somewhere so attention to detail people you know there's probably frustration here but you still have to if you're going to do the work do it 100% so c46 is that connector right there so pretty easy to get to but that's the one we don't want to touch there is the PCM right there by the fender liner and the connectors are from the bottom alternators obviously right here and I mean there's hoses everywhere I see the main positive post post and the Lin wire is right next to it but I have no idea how to get my hand in there to unplug that maybe we'll find a way then c122 was actually below the frame rail that connector right there yep there it is so we can unplug that hopefully pretty easily so if we get there and the alternator will be will be able to do that load test on the Lin wire okay so actually from underneath if we take off the splash Shield there's our alternator and there is the single Lin wire connector with that red locking tab then connector c122 is right here perfect so to set this up we're going to load that Lin wire with 12 VTS with a 1 amp test light you might say is that safe for the battery or for the engine computer well to be 110% safe now we don't want to you know mess this car up during testing the circuits are well protected but if it's easy to do just disconnect the negative battery cable and that way when you run a test light from here to that Lin wire it won't be able to for example make its way to ground through the PCM and Fry something so that's that's always a good idea um if we're just doing wiring Integrity checks you know load test and that wire is connected to the PCM especially if it's you know not a driver wire if it's like a low voltage sens wire or communication wire we'll just unplug the negative battery cable to play it safe and we'll run some current through that wire okay so battery ground is disconnected and I have the yellow and black jumpers going down there from the battery um so we have a good power and ground for our test light test next unplug the alternator there's a single pin Lin wire and that's um you know have an AES wave adapter in that and then c122 pin one the same Violet and brown wire I have that um an adapter on that so AES wave adapter kit is absolutely essential to make good connections to those pins so that is coming from you know the harness side this is also the harness side so let's look at the diagram what we're measuring okay so we're at c122 have this unplugged we're measuring that way and alternator is unplugged measuring this way so step one let's check one let's measure the resistance between here and here I expect expect it's going to be 0o ohms and then we'll low test the wire and see what happens guys I don't believe this reading 22 ohms this is supposed to be just a straight shot wire so that's if that's a problem we could fix this no parts required so we just measured from here to here 22 ohms wow well what's in between we have splice s176 and c46 now since we know that there is a problem here just with an ometer I'm not going to connect the test lights yet because we don't need to if there's a resistance then you know let's say there's little green crusty here something if you run current through there that might temporarily fix the problem so if we have a bad resistance reading there is no need to low test the wire let's find the problem while it's happening I'm going right after c146 now and then we can measure this way and this way with the ohm meter and see if there's an issue so this is kind of exciting

Channel: Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics

Views: 49,842

Keywords: Ford, Lincoln, alternator, charging, battery, communication, dealer, warranty, Buy back, wiring, harness, factory, defect

Id: lDlmI9GO0-Y

Length: 28min 25sec (1705 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 16 2024