Follow Him Podcast: Episode 39, Part 1–D&C 106-108 with guest Robert L. Millet | Our Turtle House

[Music] welcome to follow him a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their come follow me study i'm hank smith and i'm john by the way we love to learn we love to laugh we want to learn and laugh with you as together we follow him hello everyone welcome to another episode of follow him i'm your host hank smith i am here with my meek co-host john by the way john you are meek what every girl wants i hope my husband's meek you know hey we want to remind everybody you can find us on instagram and uh facebook go to follow him dot co follow him dot co you might be tempted to put follow him dot com don't do that new follow him dot co and you can get show notes and quotes and things and of course we'd love for you to rate and review the podcast and it's been a while since i did this john but i want to just give another shout out to our marshall mcdonald he's the one who uh wrote the the song that we use as our intro and i've mentioned it before but i want to mention it mention it again our friend marshall uh we love your music marshall mcdonald uh john we have a treat this week and i know both of us are a little bit nervous because of how much we how much we look up to our guests so go ahead and take it away i'll let you stumble over the intro not me so glad to be joined by dr robert l millet again and you heard his bio before but i'll refresh your memory he earned bachelor's and master's degrees in psychology from byu and his phd in biblical studies and 19th 20 and 20th century religious thought from florida state university and before joining the faculty byu faculty in 1983 uh robert millett worked with lds social services as a marriage and family counselor and with a church educational system as a seminary instructor institute director and teaching support consultant he's the author and editor of more than 30 books and 80 articles and this could be an old bio i found so it could be more right now and book chapters dealing with doctrine and history of the church i have behind me the doctrinal commentary in the book of mormon and a few books on joseph smith a choice here within reach when a child wanders alive in christ and a bunch of other books hank did i how many did i miss prolific um and if you would have told me when i was a missionary that i was going to be on a podcast with john by the way and bob millett i would have said why is john by the way there i want to have bob miller to myself i will meekly agree with you right there yeah i have i have i mean i've i was reading books from dr millet long before we became friends and i sometimes can't i just have to pinch myself that we are friends right that this really is true that he knows my name all right i think we've gushed haven't we john have we gushed and flowed enough okay i don't know we haven't done him justice but welcome bob welcome back thank you good to be with you yeah we love having you here um let's jump right in uh to our lesson uh this week's lesson is on uh doctrine covenant sections 106 107 and 108. it is the the very end and the beginning of the very end of 1834 in the very beginning of 1835. so uh dr millet back us up and and what do we need to know coming into uh these two three sections let's just do enough history to get by and understand what's going on uh 106 um the prophet in 1834 and parley p pratt are traveling to the east to find persons who can join zion's camp with them and they stop at the home of warren cowdery in freedom new york i i didn't know where freedom was i did a little research uh it's 90 miles southwest of palmyra and if you want to know where it stands in the state it's about 340 miles from new york city but a little town freedom freedom new york warren of course is the older brother of oliver caldery he had heard about his brother oliver's experiences wasn't quite sure what to think of the whole thing except he was so moved by what he heard from oliver that he wanted to have similar experiences himself and and so he really was a good man his wife patience that's a great name and eight children and so his wife patience party's wife is thankful so that's right and he lives in freedom this is a great combo here he joins the church in 1834 and becomes a pretty important person in terms of influence he's involved for example and he's the scribe on the dedicatory prayer of the kirtland temple he's the scribe for the april 3rd 1836 appearance of the savior moses elias and elijah uh so he's someone that um really has had an influence in the church um seemed to be deeply converted um when jo let's just say that when joseph and parley came they invited a number of people to home and joseph and parley preached and joseph in particular and a large number of people were were baptized on that occasion warren again went through those wonderful experiences in 1836 but unfortunately got caught up in 1838 in this in the same kinds of things critic being critical of the leadership of the church and and thus left the church at about that time which is which is sad but tremendous contributions to the to the kingdom good man um by the way served as that the section 106 is is instructions to joseph smith to call warren cow judy to serve basically as the branch president over freedom new york branch should we dive in yes please section 106. verse one of course is it's my will that warren should be appointed to serve as uh presiding high priest let's mention that [Music] he really only served in that capacity a little over a year but did a great job because he moved to kirtland was placed on the kirtland high council then when when many of the saints moved to far west he moved with them he served on the high council in far west as well um he's to preach the gospel in verse 2 preach my everlasting gospel lift up his voice and warn the people not only in his own place but in the adjoining counties right and devote his whole time to the high and holy calling which i now give unto him seeking diligently the kingdom of heaven and so forth where i think it gets interesting i've said this before i think and that is it's fascinating how in in some of the revelations that we don't generally think much about or many people don't even remember there's some pretty powerful uh doctrinal instructions contained in them i'm thinking of you know james colville and so forth this is one of those look at verse 4 and again verily i say unto you the coming of the lord draweth nigh and it overtaketh the world as a thief in the night i went back and i i just read drawing upon the same language that paul used when he wrote to the thessalonians this is first thessalonians 5. of the times and the seasons verse 1 brethren ye have no need that i write unto you for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the lord so cometh as a thief in the night we hear that used a lot i've heard people talk about it in the church many times the lord's coming as the thief of the night we're not going to know in any way when he's coming and i want to talk about that but verse 3 for when they shall say peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape i think the analogy used here is absolutely fabulous let's take let's consider a woman that is nine months and three weeks pregnant and it's just as ready to deliver as she can be and and just just wishes the baby would come anytime now she's so uncomfortable well let's suppose she goes to church one day and someone walks up to her and says hey when you're going to have that baby anyway what if she answered what if she answered this way oh i don't know it could be a week might be a year maybe five years for all i know i'm not quite sure i don't know the time no she would never say that she might say i don't know the minute but i can tell you one thing it's going to be soon it's got to be soon the analogy is really an important one because if you could ask her how do you know it'll be so so and she'll say the signs in my body are telling me that it's soon and so i think it's a fascinating illustration analogy here and as we'll see i want to go on and read the rest of this because we generally i think misuse this passage of scripture therefore gird up your loins verse 5 that you may be the children of light and that day shall not overtake you as a thief we're back in 106 now right bob yes yeah section 106 i'm sorry yeah gird up your lines be the children of light that's the same language paul will use so that you won't it won't overtake you as the thief here's the key in verse 4. verily i said the coming of the lord draweth nigh it overtaketh the world as a thief in the night it need not overtake the saints if they're paying attention either to the signs of the times and more particularly if they're paying attention to what the leadership of the church are saying i was thinking of something that you would have studied quite a while back but if you remember the the 68 section of the doctrine and covenants given to basically i guess it was four elder four elders of the church orson hyde and three other brethren i'm looking at at um i'll read this in context verse 9 of section 68 he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned and he that believeth shall be blessed with signs following even as it is written and unto you now these are men that will become members of the first quorum of the twelve apostles unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times and the signs of the coming of the son of man i think that's saying we need to pay close attention to the twelve and the first presidency to the apostles that guide the church we may not know the day or the hour elder mcconkey used the expression he used to say but i think we'll know the season [Music] knowing knowing the exact time elder ballard gave a byu address some years ago [Music] and he said i am a member of the quorum of the twelve apostles and i do not know when the second coming will be i do not know of anybody in the twelve or the first presidency who knows when the second coming will be he said and i would modestly suggest that if we don't know when it is no one knows when it is and i think that's that's that's a critical point because it it actually is in harmony with that verse we need to pay attention to the 12 the first presidency and yes search and read the signs of the times and not let ourselves get caught up with all these groups that seem to have it down pat you know it's next thursday and so that from section 106 to me is is fascinating a short section of the doctrine covenants and yet that little important detail contained there overtaketh the world as a thief in the night the world don't you don't have to be in that group no no i think that's right i'm so glad you brought this up i actually had a note next to it because i remember being at a ces symposium and hearing somebody present this way well to the wicked to the world it'll be like a thief in the night but to the righteous it'll be like a woman in travail and you pointed us to that and it's actually footnoted there first thessalonians 5. and so we kind of have an idea a woman in travail has an idea and if we're acquainted with i love the footnote to section 68 if we are acquainted uh we it won't overtake us completely out of nowhere we'll be able to say oh look this this looks like yeah this was supposed to happen yeah this was supposed to happen i'm glad you brought that up because it's it's a merciful thing the lord has done oh you'll know i'll give you signs do you remember when uh in ii nephi 25 when nephi's tried to explain or provide some keys for understanding isaiah one of them is you'll know when it happens yeah you will you live in the last days yeah it's verse 8 i think yeah i think it's saying we ought to be acquainted with not obsessed with but acquainted with the signs of the times and if we are then there are certain things we'll be saying well that certainly fulfills that sign of the time and i think we'll be listening more carefully i hope to the first presidency i just said this this particularly first particular first presidency in quorum of the 12 these 15 men have no hesitation about saying that we're trying to prepare ourselves now for the second coming of the savior again i don't know when it is it's certainly closer than it was but i think that's safe to say yeah that's right and so i think this whole thing of the thief in the night is a fascinating idea and that is it doesn't need to be as the thief in the night we can be ready um i want to read uh a uh a little thought from uh elder holland september 12 2004 at byu the promised second coming of the savior began with the first vision of the prophet joseph smith in 1820 right keep your eyes on the 12. there there they'll tell you uh when this is happening i was going to say earlier that even when you're nine months pregnant it still seems to surprise you a little bit right maybe i haven't talked to my wife about this but it did seem to surprise me wait what right now i'm not ready for this uh and i ha and i saw it coming right she knew she would tell me be ready i got the bag packed you know how many times the savior says in the doctrine covenants i come quickly but quickly they really mean suddenly yeah without warning it's not talking about time it's suddenly without warning that's right except i think the saints if they're paying attention and are seeking to be in tune will recognize warnings yeah i think i just wasn't in tune as a husband i think i was doing my own thing well my wife will tell you she remembers most being very pregnant and we were living in tallahassee and i'm trying to finish a major paper for a class and she says i think it's time and i said to her yeah just give me a little while i'll be i'll be we uh managed to get her to the hospital and the baby came in 45 minutes wow that's one of her sweet memories of me yeah it reminds me that it's funny just give me give me a second here how many of us are going to do that with the lord when he's just oh we can you hold off for just a couple of days um i will say i don't know who said it i've heard it attributed to cs lewis but i don't think i've ever found the uh the reference for it but he says the second coming will not be a day of choosing it will be a day you find out what you have chosen all right it's not a day to now begin to choose it's the day you find out right should we go to section 108 yeah let's do it verse six he says bob um warren cowdery separated himself from the crafts of men that's got to be part of of not being part of the world right separating yourself from the crafts of men i was thinking this is kind of like a double stuff oreo where you've got a 106 and 108 that are pretty short sections holding uh i don't know why i'm think of an oreo right now but i think that's what the lord wants us to think of john he wanted us to think of oreos right here this is a revelation to lyman's sherman um brother sherman born in 1804 so what one year older than the prophet joseph smith born in vermont he and his wife del cena d-e-l-c-e-n-a they're baptized in 1832 january and other members of the family were also baptized they moved to kirtland in mid-1833 and there they meet the prophet joseph smith lyman was one of those that served successfully and faithfully as a member of zion's camp the story's told that while the prophet joseph smith is in his home at christmas time it's the day after christmas and and joseph is sitting around with some of the early elders of the church and they're studying hebrew and a knot comes at the door and it was 31 year old lyman sherman who had been moved upon by the spirit to go to see the prophet joseph smith regarding what the lord would have him do and so section 108 is is the response to that he had been appropriately moved upon he responded to it and this revelation comes to him this is it's an interesting thing that takes place in his life we know that at the time the quorum of the 12 is organized february 14 1835 within two weeks the quorum first quorum of the seventy is established and lyman sherman is called to be one of the seven presidents which is quite an honor as we as we know zion's camp proved to be the place where you find the leaders i mean joseph knew who he could depend upon after zion's camp and many of those either went into the 12 or the 70. so lyman sherman was called in 18 1835 to that capacity but interestingly by 1837 i don't know whether joseph smith had realized that something wasn't quite right what what the prophet seemed to have pondered upon is that lyman sherman had been ordained a high priest i guess back in 1831 when the first high priest were ordained and then he said i think the the line he used is something like it's really not in harmony or it's uh not it not in tune with what the lord wants to do uh or even stronger contrary to the order of heaven for a man who is a high priest to serve as one of the presidents of 70. and so he was released from that appointment with that in mind some of these verses uh will make a little more sense it it's a very tender revelation in the sense that the lord is very attentive to the feelings of this good man and uh shall we look at some of the verses let's do it well okay verse 1 verily thus saith the lord unto you my servant lyman your sins have forgiven you because you have obeyed my voice in coming up hither this morning to receive counsel of him whom i have appointed he's followed the prompting therefore let your soul be at rest concerning your spiritual standing and resist no more my voice and to rise up and be careful henceforth in observing your vows which you've have made and do make and you shall be blessed with exceeding great blessings wait patiently until the solemn assembly shall be called of my servants then you shall be remembered with the first of mine elders and receive right by ordination with the rest of mine elders whom i have chosen i think the solemn assembly being referenced there is what goes on at the time of the kirtland temple dedication and he was acknowledged then as a member of the presidency of the 17 received great recognition this is the promise of the father unto you if you continue faithful and it shall be fulfilled upon you in that day that you shall have right to preach my gospel wheresoever i will i shall send you from henceforth from that time this is one of those verses i i went through maybe 10 years ago and picked out just favorite verses in the scriptures i wanted a batch to memorize this was one of those verse 7. i love this therefore strengthen your brethren and sisters in all your conversation in all your prayers in all your exhortations and in all your doings i love that idea that what we say what we speak ought to be a strengthening influence to people that's a i mean that's the exact opposite of someone who is gossiping you know or who is telling tales strengthen whether it's in your conversations or whether it's in your prayers or whether it's in what you're teaching frankly in all you're doing strengthen people by what you have to say and behold and lo i am with you to bless you and deliver you forever maybe one or two more things about lyman throughout the kirtland apostasy he and his family stayed faithful through it all wilford woodruff mentioned that lyman sherman was actually the first member of the church to speak in tongues and he did it in a particular meeting not not an unusual meeting but a regular type meeting in the kirtland temple and so that's a nice thing to be recognized his brother-in-law by the way was benjamin f johnson uh who became a very dear friend of the prophet joseph smith and so they remained faithful as i indicated he's released from the 70 in 1837. uh anyway just a just a good man stays faithful dies in 1839 the age of 34. well um in fact part of the reason he died is that he went to liberty jail to visit joseph and the brethren in jail while there caught a cold and soon thereafter died nearly died so it's a it's a it's a great story lyman sherman yeah one of the definitely lesser known uh but someone we should someone we should uh know about understand and well how often how often is it the case i think i mentioned this the last time i was with you that is often it's what you could call i suppose the second level saints that seem to make such a difference when you think about the beginnings of the restoration the knights the whitmers just you start naming them off these these really important people that came into the church at just the right time and uh and they served in ways that bless the church we don't know them like we know joseph and brigham or parley or orson pratt but they the whitneys or the uh or the whitney's yes he's the partridges right that's exactly right people that uh that were instrumental in great things happening so that through their their simple service and that's that's it's it's wonderful how the lord acknowledges him here and i think that's the same promise for all of us right bob as those of us who are second level saints who maybe aren't in the headlines the lord acknowledges our work what did what does the lord what's the lord going to say to oliver granger back in 117 his name shall be had in honorable remembrance from generation to generation i had somebody who was not a member of the church and quite critical says well i have never heard of him and i bet most of your saints haven't i said look he made the doctrine and covenants i didn't [Laughter] but there's a there's a simple man that wasn't well known basically blind who went forward became a helper to the first presidency straightening things back out in kirtland and the lord says some pretty remarkable things about him his uh his headstone is just the north side of the kirtland temple there and it's fun to go there and to read that excerpt from 117. um john what were you going to say i just there's a couple of things i love about this verse two how many of us um i mean just that question let your soul be at rest concerning your spiritual standing i just that question that we all sometimes have am i doing okay how am i doing and how many sections of the doctrine of covenants i mean it nice and convenient to go over to the prophet hey can can you tell me how am i doing and a lot of people got that in these early days of the of the church i think and you know when i was bishop the first time i had a sister come in to see me what wonderful lady really her family was just a just a great family but she came in for recommend temple recommend we had a good visit she obviously was worthy and she said she made a comment she said i wish my husband received greater recognition he doesn't ever seem to be called to major church positions and we began to talk about her husband this was one noble soul this is a man you could depend on this is someone who was always there when he was needed he was someone you knew if you gave the assignment to him it would get done and it would get done well and i don't know if he ever served in leadership in the church but that just doesn't matter a great deal the issue is you know how faithful were you in your personal life what kind of a family person were you and yeah i worrying about your spiritual standing i guess there's another way of looking at that too john i think wonderful faithful latter-day saints who worry they aren't going to make the celestial kingdom that to me uh is sad i've met a lot of saints that somehow suppose they're going to end up in the terrestrial kingdom and i try to explain to them look are you worthy to go to the temple well yes but you plan to go to the terrestrial kingdom huh well i don't plan to it's probably where i'll end up i think i think that satan would work on us does work on us sometimes in supposing we just don't have what it takes when in fact many many many most of the saints are living the gospel in a way that they're going to make it and i don't think while i think we need to attend to our duties and and be faithful and true to what we're called upon to do i don't think the lord wants us to worry about our standing in the church you know to say to say even if you have the holy ghost and if the holy ghost is dwelling with you you're living in a as brigham young would say you're living in a a saved condition i i loved the uh our friend stephen robinson that he just had a really nice way of putting it he looked at section 25 which we normally think of oh that's emma smith and the hymns but early in section 25 you know if you're if you've if you're joined the church or in my kingdom and what stephen robinson said the question really isn't am i going to make it the question is do i want to stay and that's in his book following christ i thought what a beautiful way to put it you're in the kingdom now do you want to stay and stop i i like what you said bob we just stop worrying about it so much we do what what have you quoted is it cs lewis you in a less worried way yeah i you you move forward you work at it but you do so in a less worried way i think that's beautiful i tell my students frequently bob that the lord is mighty to save he's good at this so he's so good at this yeah he's he's he doesn't say well i just i don't know if i can do it i i you know i'm trying but it's saving someone like you is really hard no he seems to be very confident really good at it and he's he's got this title that actually was it was with a capital s savior you know and he's so good at it that he's the only one um yeah i think we can rely on him i remember sitting next to an evangelical minister on a plane had a just a fascinating conversation and he asked well if you never go to the temple again can you be saved and and i said well the temple is not the savior me going on a mission is not the savior me trying to keep commandments is not the savior jesus is the savior and i i do those things because i think he wants me to but he's the savior and he's mighty to say that was an interesting conversation you know when i when i talked i i spoke to a group just a few weeks ago and they asked me to speak on the idea of who's going to make it or and it's an older group this is a group um of people probably in their mid to late 60s and i talked about the importance of the holy ghost that you know i i think we've all seen paul's writings on this where he says the holy ghost is basically the earnest of our inheritance meaning it's sort of god's earnest money on us meaning when the spirit is with me it means god is serious about saving me just like when i pay that money down is my earnest money i'm serious about buying that home when i have the spirit with me it's god's way of whispering softly to me you're on course you're on course the other would be a temple recommend that you're that you use why well because the temple is god's counterpart to paradise if you qualify to go into the temple and serve in the temple you qualify to go to paradise when you die i remember going getting a phone call from a sister when i was bishop who she and her husband had served five or six missions i don't know whether it was five or six but and in the word in the ward they were just amazing people so service oriented so loving so kind well he passed away and uh she stayed in mortality for about another year she called me one day and and we knew that that she was not far from death and she said bishop i've got to get my temple recommend um it it's going to expire and i don't want to face god with an expired temple recommend i said oh okay so i said i'll get the steak president we'll come over to your house and so stake president sitting over here i'm here and she's right over there and i asked the questions and she of course gave all the right answers and i said well do you have any questions or any concerns she said yeah i have a concern she said here's this sweet pure soul about as celestial as anybody i've ever known who who then said i'm really worried that i haven't done enough and i don't know what happened exactly but feeling came over me and i looked over the stake president and he was teary-eyed and i think it came over him too and i said president should i he said tell her and uh i don't know if i was authorized to do this but i said my dear sister i said um your salvation is secure you're you've done everything the lord's asked you to do forever you you've just been the model citizen in the kingdom of god i the least of your worries ought to be whether you're going to make it to the celestial kingdom uh some of us may worry if we can do as well as you have but i just think that those are they're sad situations and of course satan would would work on us to cause us to worry about our spiritual standing when in fact there are a lot of things we're asked and called upon to do in the church to be sure things can get kind of complicated sometimes but if occasionally we'll back off and say well at least a couple of things i know i hold a current type of recommend i'm worthy to do that and you know what i've i feel a holy ghost working in my life and if that's the case it's like god's token or as someone as someone said it's like god's engagement ring meaning i intend to make you a part of an important wedding in days to come and so i think i i love that line spiritual standing don't worry about it i love that bob i love it and before we go on to 107 i just have to let's talk about verse 7 because how can we i know both of you do this i'm not as good as as both of you but strengthening people in the way you talk bob you you're a celebrity that makes others feel like a celebrity uh john you're the same way you're just someone who who is strengthening people by the way you talk yet in the world around us today it seems to be an a culture of outrage and tear people down you know i had i'll say this john and then you need to give the good stuff my dad was not an educated man by the world standards um but boy did he know people and uh he had a high school education and was successful in his business but the greatest thing about him was was his personality his way i i will never forget coming home from a mission sitting in on a gospel essentials class that dad was teaching and dad asked the question to the these young members um and now who was it that restored the aaronic priesthood and a hand went up and dad said yes and the man said moroni and i thought ooh this is interesting and dad said moroni oh i love moroni moroni is one of my favorite people he talked about moroni for about five minutes and then said ah thank you for mentioning now now actually moroni wasn't the one that brought the priesthood but who was it someone said john the baptist good but thank you for mentioning moroni i i remember thinking that's a good example of dad hadn't gone to a class on i mean a class on how to be a good teacher or an effective teacher he just knew people and and i watched him he's i watched him as he do it with people uh loved being with people and made them feel better when they went home you know and so i i think one thing is to just i often say to teachers um gospel teachers sometimes it's a great risk for a person to make a comment in a sunday school class or a priesthood or a relief society class consequently we need to in a in an appropriate way reward them for making a comment or answering a question and just saying yes good that's okay but i found over the years that when a student a young student make a comment that really was quite good i'd say say that again and she would say it again and i'd say did everybody hear that i remember when i was teaching a freshman book of mormon class we were in mosiah 15 with abandonized teachings that difficult first four verses on the father and the son i assigned them to go home that night and for the next class period to put together a one-page summary of what's what was being taught by abinadi it was fortunate i called on this one young lady i said cindy would you read yours it was amazing it was so well done and i said to her something like you wrote this she said yeah i wrote this i said what do the rest of you think and they complimented her too i said i've never heard it and i hadn't i'd never heard it explained that well before and i think you know letting them know they're appreciated letting them know [Music] that it's worthwhile to make a comment people people need to be complimented people people need to be assured and reassured what do you think john well i was uh years ago there was a youth theme i usually will put together a fireside on the the youth theme and it was first timothy 4 12. you know be an example of the believers and one of them is in conversation and so i loved to to go to this verse and when i was 17 years old pivotal experience in my life though i didn't know it at the time my bishop called me to be what they used to call junior sunday school chorister and now it would be primary chorister and i've hank you've heard me tell this story a million times but i looked right at him and went i'm a boy you know and he looked at me like look you weren't my first choice either buster get in there and do it uh i don't know why your name came and i i learned later when i was a missionary in the philippines got the amazing opportunity to open an area and after a couple of weeks had about 15 kids sitting there in a primary and i knew the songs they were all in my head and i could it was an amazing experience but some of those lyrics i want to just say this verse 7 sounds like give said the little stream listen to this phrase i'm small i know but wherever i go the grass grows greener and i've known people like that and hank don't sell yourself short you are so good with people that they feel strengthened and i love the humility i'm small i know but this is what i can do wherever i go i can try to make the grass grow greener and somebody if they have an interaction with me will feel a little bit better and all your conversation all your prayers all your ex sortations all your doings in fact i made a note to what i thought was a very interesting talk april 1999 elder cree l coford gave a talk called your name is safe in our home i'll just read a paragraph what a blessing it would be if all of us could follow that counsel if each of our names truly could be safe in the home of others have you noticed how easy it is to cross over the line and find fault with other people all too often we seek to be excused from the very behavior we condemn and others mercy for me justice for everyone else is a much too common addiction when we deal with the name and reputation of another we deal with suffering something sacred in the sight of the lord there are those among us who would recoil in horror at the thought of stealing another person's money or property but who don't give a second thought to stealing another person's good name or reputation the old adage never judge another man until you have walked a mile in his footsteps as good advice today as it was the day it was first uttered someone once said there is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it ill behooves any of us to find fault with the rest of us so that's a great talk if someone wants to look that up elder creel coford april 99 general conference and when i i'm looking at verse 7 of section 108 i've got the all underlined and i think it was doug brinley that used to say is that a pretty high percentage when he would see the word all in scriptures so there's not there's not any wiggle room there may i share another quick experience it has to do with making things better for other people by what we say i was on a flight i think it was in the days when we were doing know your religion programs and i was going down to texas and so i'm on the plane another man comes in sits next to me he strikes up a conversation we begin having a nice chat he asks uh what what you do for a living and i told him uh i am professor of religion at brigham young university he went on and on and on about byu and he was a real fan of our football team he called us quarterback you and we had a good chat i turned to him at a certain point and said now what do you do for a living and he said i'm an ordained plumber ordained excuse me i'm an ordained plumber i said i think i've never met an ordained plumber what is an ordained plumber he said well my profession in my profession i'm a plumber but you know i'm first and foremost a christian and my job i feel like is to go into people's homes and to simply make their day a better day i was so moved that's great bob an unordained plumber i mean you know you could be an ordained a lot of things if we took that charge i think i think i'm glad you brought that up john that is strengthen people by what we say i'm going to um add to the homework john april 2007 the tongue of angels by jeffrey r holland he talks about this i remember hearing this for the first time knowing it was going to be a talk that impacted me and you just have to hear this one line i hope everyone will go read both talks that john and i mentioned elder holland says i have often thought that nephi's being bound with cords and beaten by rods must have been more tolerable to him than listening to layman and lemuel's constant murmuring surely he must have said at least once hit me one more time i can still hear you right that our words matter right he says no misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse uh just our words are important strengthening our brothers and sisters in all our conversations i'm glad we i'm glad we stopped there alma 12 14 i tell my students i think this is the scariest verse in the entire book of mormon alma 12 14. um our words will condemn us our works will condemn us our thoughts will condemn us and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our god we fame be glad if we command the rocks and mounts to fall upon us to hide us from his presence right and then i say footnoted is the second scariest verse in the standard works i think it's matthew 12 36 every idle word that men shall speak they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment and then i make it worse pack your bags kids we're going on a guilt trip every idle word that meant shall speak or text or blog or post they shall give a counter of you know and by that time we're all guilty enough we have a closing prayer and go home but i just this is the opposite just strengthen in all all all and i think i read in one of the commentaries that conversation in your webster's 1828 dictionary was more than just your words yeah it was your conduct so this expands to more than just our words which uh but we can apply that in both ways beautifully yeah yeah absolutely should we go to 107. let's do it yes this is landmark right bob this is huge not just for the saints of the time but for us yeah this this the 12 were called what a month before month and a half before first quorum of the 12 they've been receiving instructions they come together i love the way this preface reads [Music] on the date named the 12 men in council confessing their individual weaknesses and shortcomings and expressing repentance seeking the guidance of the lord they're about to go on their missions [Music] one of their missions and so this is an interesting section um a number of the things that are in section 107 were revealed as early as november 1831 and uh and yet i think when the prophet put it all together he put this this is the section on priesthood i mean 84 is awfully good but 107 i think is the most complete section on priesthood and priesthood government bob i i don't i don't think this is something we've mentioned before that we should probably should is that sometimes we think of sections of the doctrine covenants as just kind of coming that one day but these are things that that sit in joseph's mind maybe for years as you've said here this is 1835 and some of this is coming in 1831 and he's finally find if he maybe he's come to the right moment where it's time to put it all out on on paper well yes i think i think for the first edition of the doctrine covenants he determines that there are certain things that have been said about priesthood at different times by the lord and we put them into one section section 20 is very similar right section 20 is put together in different ways yeah this wasn't just one revelation this is several revelations but he's combined them into one because it deals with priesthood matters um i've heard scott wood scott woodward refer to this as a patchwork revelation in fact i think part of joseph smith giving a blessing to his father joseph smith senior like two or three verses are in here right well the whole thing about adam i saw you know yeah yeah that's that is from a blessing joseph blessing his father and his mother the occasion but it's revelation and it's absolutely worthwhile for all of us so it's it's all put in here yeah you know even in these opening verses it's interesting there are in the church two priesthoods namely the melchizedek and aaronic including the levitical priesthood but that was interesting why the first is called the melchizedek priesthood is because melchizedek was such a great high priest before his day it was called the holy priesthood after the order of the son of god this interesting line this next line is interesting to me but out of respect or reverence to the name of the supreme being to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name they the church in ancient days call that priesthood after melchizedek or the melchizedek priesthood i mean all of that's important but i i'm kind of taken by the fact that it refers to the church you know the church in ancient days you know the church i think there's always been a church of some kind it just took different forms at different times boy good point an old testament church even yeah an old testament yeah good point let's look at something look at verse five i don't think we pay any attention to verse five and it's deserving all other authorities or offices in the church are appendages to this priesthood there's that word all yes which sounds like all it's remarkable i'm thinking about all other authorities or offices in the church are appendages think about that an appendage is an extra right something kind of stuck on listen to what president joseph f smith says in gospel doctrine this is on page 148 there is no office growing out of this priesthood that is or can be greater than the priesthood itself it is from the priesthood that the office derives its authority and power no office gives authority to the priesthood no office adds to the power of the priesthood but all offices in the church derive their power their virtue their authority from the priesthood if our brethren would get this principle thoroughly established in their minds there would be less misunderstanding in relation to the functions of government in the church than there is um he talks he goes on and talks about elders and high priests used to debate which is greater and he makes the comment neither they operate in different directions he said you know the high priest have certain responsibilities the elder had certain responsibilities and so i think that the offices in the priesthood are appendages think for a minute when john the baptist restored the aaronic priesthood what office did he ordain them to well later joseph smith in a sermon very late says ordained us priests but there's no mention of office in the ordination is there they had the the priesthood was greater than any office that they would have uh you can see that officers are important and quorums are important but the priesthood itself is is what it's all about i'm just going to jump around verse 8 the melchizedek priesthood holds the right of presidency and has power and authority over all the offices in the church in all ages of the world to administer in spiritual things the phrase right of presidency when i see that expression ding ding ding goes off in my mind that's that is a synonym for keys the right of presidency or we would say directing power directing power i remember in our award a hundred years ago uh it was when my dad was bishop um i'm exaggerating it's probably no more than 80 years ago but uh when dad was bishop we had a man in the ward a very interesting guy um he baptized his son and he didn't want anybody from the ward there including no member of the bishopric and dad tried to explain to him this is done under the keys of the priesthood and and you don't hold the keys of the priesthood basically it's a delegation to allow him to do that but i remember quite that little debate the man i had with dad about that if i'm a melchizedek priesthood holder the only way i can pass that melchizedek priesthood on to say my son is through a priesthood key holder right i just can't choose to do it i just can't say well i have milk as a priest i'm going to pass it on i need i need someone who holds the keys to direct me to give that priesthood to someone else including my own child and it's so crucial because this is the way we the governance of the church has to operate there that way or you're going to have chaos you know everybody blessing and ordaining everybody else i just say this there's certain ordinances that of course you or i could perform in our home you know blessing our children blessing our wife but even even during the coveted times with administering the sacrament homes the bishop was respon responsible to oversee that you know i'm sure there are people saying well gosh why do i need the bishop's approval well because the ordinances of the gospel are under his direction in our ward the keys we're sitting in sacrament meeting just a couple of weeks ago and my wife is nudging me i think they need some more to go pass the sacrament and i'm looking at the teacher's quorum president because that kid's got keys i don't i can't jump up and do it and the other reason is because that kid with the keys was my boy timothy [Laughter] and i could see him texting and i knew he wasn't playing a game uh he was getting other people to pass and i was so thrilled to see loan let the kid with the keys figure out how to get more sacrament passers there and i i love that that way that we do it and boy what what a centrally organized church we have and this section is so much a part of that i don't know how and you probably know better than i do but you have so many friends and have done so much outreach with our evangelical friends and so forth if they have a central body if they have a governing body i'm not even sure you could maybe speak to that but look what this section does well you know part of the problem with um i looked up the other day just how many christian churches there are in the world as of 2021 and the number that that i got was was 30 000. now um how would that happen it's martin luther introduces the concept of the priesthood of all believers in at the time of the reformation but he also introduces the idea that every person becomes his or her own interpreter or arbiter of of the meaning of scripture sometimes we don't think about the value of that priesthood line in terms of determining what is doctrine i don't know if you remember this when president hinckley was interviewed i think it was by larry king one of the questions he was asked what is your job and brother hinckley's first answer was i oversee doctrine and and you know that is significant because now i can say this in the roman catholic church you're more likely to be able to stay properly connected and things to be done because there is a priestly hierarchy i suppose in the church of england that would be true as well but in conservative protestantism the priesthood of all believers operates a person feels called by god feels to be called by god and then assumes a mission or assumes the right to preach and and the difficulty you have is how do you control for accuracy of doctrine i was i was talking with a very dear friend of mine evangelical friend who works in denver denver seminary and we were chatting about something i was in denver and he said well you see bob you got to always be looking over your shoulder to make sure that you get it right he said with me i can take a passage of scripture and write a 10-page document on it and my neighbor down the hall can write a document on it and it can be vastly different even contradictory he said that's the beauty of our system i said well actually that's chaos [Music] because again it's every man for himself every woman for herself in terms of doctrinal understanding now that's not even priesthood government so much as it is the value of apostles and prophets i know for years for years you've heard us say or we've said i've said we're the only people on the earth who believes god still speaks to man well you know and i know that we have some wonderful protestant catholic and jewish and muslim friends that pray for divine direction and they receive it of course they do but what we really mean by that is we're the only organization on earth that has apostolic authority by which revelation for the governance of the entire church takes place and so right of presidency keys i think pretty significant and and one more thing when elder christopherson gave that talk called why the church in 2015 i took that apart every little why do we have a church because my students ask well why do we need that can i just be spiritual but not religious or something and one of the points was to keep the doctrine pure to protect the doctrine that's that's a big one and and to make sure that the ordinances of the priesthood are done under proper authorization and thus that they're carried out properly performed properly recently i had a conversation with a friend eric rayerson who said you know you really have to understand american history to understand the history of the church and i think with 107 bob wouldn't you say that in protestant america where joseph smith lives priesthood is not is not something they're going to be discussing this is a very catholic idea uh and there's not a lot of catholics around joseph in the saints i think that's one of the more interesting things about the early days of the church is like you're saying there weren't many catholics around the great infusion of catholic sums in in the late latter part of the 19th century and into the 20th century uh yes joseph smith was living in protestant america and thus it's a rather unusual thing if you're trying to come up with a sociological explanation for joseph smith and the church to to have something that sounds very very priestly you know a priestly hierarchy well that's what it is uh and so in that sense i i believe the catholics have it right in terms of the idea of governance and oversight i've heard someone say if protestantism and catholicism had a child it would look a lot like the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints we have some things uh our our let's take this way our sacrament meeting would not be too different than a worship service of protestants of conservative protestants i'll say right an evangelical meeting and yet priesthood government there's an order and the temple it looks more catholic than it does protestant that's right please join us for part two of this podcast [Music] you

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Id: zQS21xojVBU

Length: 61min 13sec (3673 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 17 2021