Follow Him Podcast: Dr. Scott Woodward : Doctrine & Covenants 102-105 : Episode 38 Part 1

[Music] welcome to follow him a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their come follow me study i'm hank smith and i'm john by the way we love to learn we love to laugh we want to learn and laugh with you as together we follow him hello my friends welcome to another episode of follow him my name is hank smith and i am here with my worthy and capable co-host john by the way hello john by the way an intro ripped from the headlines or rather verse 7 of section 102 right from the scriptures that's exactly i don't think that's about me but i'll take it thank you yes well i'm sure it has a double meaning um hey we want to remind everybody to find us on social media on instagram and facebook if you want to watch the podcast you can watch john and i and our guest every week if you'd like you can find us on youtube uh show notes go to follow him.co follow him dot co and of course we would love it if you'd take the time to rate and review the podcast that actually really helps us a lot john i want to add something there's not only show notes but look around there is a transcript there's a transcript to follow him down people in my ward didn't know that existed and they're very excited now and going down to walmart and buying all kinds of printer paper and making printing out transcripts so they can print out and and bind the transfer together mark it yeah yeah uh john we're in for a treat uh it's it's every week we're in for a treat but i'm especially excited because i'm here with someone who who makes me feel like i can just be myself tell us who we have today we are happy to welcome back scott woodward that we've had before so glad he's here uh dr scott woodward graduated uh got his phd in instructional psychology and technology from brigham young university he's been teaching in the church educational system for nearly two decades i don't know how old this bio is is it two and a half yet uh he's currently a member of the faculty at byu idaho uh byu idaho religion faculty he's a managing director of doctrine and covenant central i hope you'll check that out a kind of a partner with book of mormon central uh a rich resource of gospel scholarship and all things related to the doctrine and covenants i love those websites and they've been so helpful and we're so glad to have you back dr wordward thank you for coming ah thanks so much for having me back it's an honor yeah scott woodward honestly you're dr woodward i know but to me you're scott and you're just somebody who i just like to be around uh you're just she makes people feel good yeah likewise brother thank you so much i was sad when when you when you went up to rexburg uh and left us down here in provo but i'm glad that they have you up there hey i wanted i want to tell everybody if you want to have an awesome experience go back and listen to episode nine way back a long time ago john if you remember we weren't very good at this not like we're great at it now but we really weren't good at it then and scott uh joined us for uh some uh some commentary on sections 18 and 19. do you remember john he said put martin and and the savior forehead to forehead they're having this discussion i mean it i if people have asked me what's your favorite episode and that's one that always comes to mind is uh scott woodward on our on episode nine i don't even know if you remember it scott you've done so much since then but that was a good day for us those sections are some of my favorites so that was awesome it's interesting you would mention that hank i actually just this week got an email thank you for helping me change my my uh my feelings my perception about martin harris and yeah that was a lot of what you did scott so thank you yeah you know could i can i say uh the uh good people of clarkston utah after that when they they reached out and said we like that you paint martin harris in a good light could you come and talk to us so last week i just spoke at martin harris's uh graveside to a bunch of wonderful people in clarkston and we just talked to martin harris for like an hour it was magical and it was it was on the podcast scott that they heard that yeah they were listening to this podcast that that episode and then we made that connection and uh blessed my life getting to know those people and just some of the salt of the earth and and being right there at martin harris's graveside just talking about martin harris for an hour was just so fun so but we're not doing sections 1819 today we are far ahead scott we are going to jump into section 102 of the doctrine and covenants it's february of 1834 so the church is coming up upon four whole years of um organization uh so far i'll just give a little background and let you take it from there things in missouri are not going well with the saints being driven out in the fall of 1833 and here in 1834 joseph is in ohio yeah so section 102 is actually not a revelation how about that uh section 102 is wait for it the minutes of a meeting the minutes of a meeting uh is what we got here this is minutes of a meeting edited by joseph smith uh to make sure that the the scribe got it right and he kind of tweaked and edited it and this is this is what we have and oh i don't know if there's anything that's quite as exciting are you on pins and needles now i mean this is this is good and wait a minute it's not just it's not just the minutes of a meeting this is the minutes of a meeting where they organized the very first high council of the church okay i know if you don't know if you're teaching sunday school or you're trying to get your your children's attention uh with scriptures i think you just lead with that i think if you just lead with that do you guys want to study about the minutes of a meeting where the first high council was organized i think i mean you really don't have to you've got them in the palm of your hand at that point yeah that's right because when when most teenagers hear about the high council the only thing they know is that's the one sunday where somebody shows up and acts like the steak presidency lives on another planet we bring you greetings from the steak presidency all right they bring you greetings and greetings yeah the love and greetings of the students that's right oh yes all that's all that love and all that greeting that started right here in section 102 of the doctrine and covenants okay so all you all the of the high council uh counselors out there we um please don't write us we love you we love you greetings too yeah one of my friends he said you know some church callings have on the scale of glory to work ratio with different sort of they said high councilman seems to have a high glory low work ratio they get recognized every time they come into the meeting like to recognize and brother johnson from the high council you know and then the stake executive secretary is like high work no glory right or the work the ward clerk is just working like crazy gets no love anyway so so here's this here's the situation so uh the minutes the minutes the minute so joseph smith had this is not the first time he had convened a high count or a council uh joseph is that's one of the geniuses of church organization is councils right um and section 42 is actually where that starts with in the in the law uh right remember that section the law and in the law it says that uh difficult situations particularly dealing with like church disciplinary action should be dealt with by bringing the person before the church the elders of the church and so joseph would convene councils to arbitrate adjudicate church decisions especially with church disciplinary type stuff so they're just called as needed but as the church is growing and things are getting a little more complex there needs to be what joseph called a standing council kind of like a council that's like always the council they're the guys right and uh and so on on february 17th 1834 uh joseph told a group of priesthood leaders that he would uh quote show the order of councils in ancient days as shown to him by vision so this isn't the vision this isn't the revelation but this is coming from some revelation joseph never recorded down these are kind of the fruits of that vision if if you will but let me read a little bit of what joseph said and this is from the minutes that joseph edited that becomes section 102 but this part got edited out but it's in the it's in the original on joseph smith papers so so this this whatever you're about to read us did not make it didn't make the cut yeah so here's what the minute say they say uh quote brother joseph said that he would show the order of councils in ancient days as shown to him by vision the law by which to govern the council in the church of christ joseph said jerusalem anciently was the seat of the church council in ancient days the apostle peter was the president of the council and he held the keys of the kingdom of god on the earth and was appointed to this office by the voice of the savior and acknowledged in it by the voice of the church then peter had two men appointed as counselors joseph explained and in case peter was absent his counselors could transact business or either one of them and the president could also just transact business alone he said it was not the order of heaven in ancient councils to plead for and against the guilty as in our current judicial court interesting he said but every counselor when he arose to speak should speak precisely according to evidence and according to the spirit of the lord that no counselor should attempt to scorn the guilty when his guilt was manifest so no shaming here but he says that the person accused before the high council had the right to one-half the members of the council to plead his cause in order that his case might be fairly presented before the president that a decision might be rendered according to truth and righteousness and then he ended by saying that that's that's an example that ancient order is the example for our high priest today so they voted on it uh all present and he said who here is willing to come under the present order of things as i've described and it was considered uh it was unanimous that they wanted to uh all uh put themselves under the will of god as pertaining to counsel so so that's kind of the interesting if there's a revelatory part of section 102 i think that's it that joseph learned about how ancient councils were run and so in some ways this is like a restoration of like ancient councils uh to some degree so yeah so that's that's that so they call it in the in the section heading you can see it's called the a form and constitution of the high council this is the the form and constitution now they said that uh that there were some problems in the minutes uh some people were like i don't know if i jotted that down right joseph was kind of talking fast and and so they said joseph could you look over the minutes and let us know if this is accurate so he said sure he took him home on the 18th he's going through them then on the 19th they reconvened and he said i've gone over them as best i could and i think this is as accurate as it gets he said let's read it they read it three times they read section one or two three times and people were listening carefully and then there was like one thing tweaked and then they all agreed this is perfect this is this is excellent so so that's how section 102 comes about and it's is do you think it's a pattern scott they're writing this down for a pattern for future counseling orders to run their counsel both this will this will be the pattern not only yeah because this makes allowance both for the standing high council in kirtland and then the creation of any other high councils as needed and you can even have like little ad hoc uh high councils called and branches of the church if you need to section or verses uh 24 and 25 say so uh yeah this is uh this is going to be the pattern and today remarkably high councils uh run a lot like this so yeah they they still do i remember drawing numbers in verse 17. yes right drawing numbers uh even an odd still is done to this day yeah yeah so this is this has been the governing uh sheet that how does it say the constitution the constitution of that council so are there are there any specific verses that uh that we ought to make sure we touch on yeah so let's look at verse two um this gives us the the sort of mission statement for high councils the high council was appointed by revelation for the purpose of settling important difficulties which might arise in the church which could not be settled by the church or the bishops council to the satisfaction of the parties and so that's i think the key in our current church handbook if you look up anything about disciplinary councils and when a a council should be called it'll it'll talk about well if it's if it's a certain degree of complexity or difficulty then the high council should be should be involved and then it will say c d and c 102 verse two yeah this this is still the government so if a sort of bishops sort of disciplinary council there's certain things that a bishop can can adjudicate as a judge in israel but there are some things that need you they need to to defer to the stake and then the stake president may say this this would be one that we'd want to call in the full high council over right typically if someone's going to lose their membership in the church for instance that's that's going to be pretty serious want to make sure we have the wisdom of the whole the whole group there so i like this because inherent in the statement in verse 2 the purpose of settling important difficulties it's almost as if joseph and the lord i would think are saying you are going to have difficulties it's normal it's normal for human beings to have difficulty sometimes we think if we're having any difficulties all in our ward stake or family we're doing something wrong when no this is that the lord inherently is saying you're going to have difficulties and i'm gonna i'm gonna give you a way to settle these that's right that's right and it's okay to have them i i think it's interesting that in verse 13 it's kind of it allows for different levels of difficulty yeah you know uh well if it's they'll decide whether it's difficult or not and if it is not two of the counselors shall speak upon it but if it is thought verse 14 but if it is thought to be difficult four shall be appointed if more difficult six uh i think that's fascinating yeah yes there's almost a preliminary uh vote taken like how difficult is this is this is this gonna require all the stops or can we handle this with just two yeah that's right uh and i love i love the the uh the built-in uh safety for the accused right uh someone who perhaps has violated something versus uh verse 15 the accused in all cases has a right to one half of the council to prevent insult or injustice meaning so half of the high council is going to make sure that they're not being treated poorly they're not being shamed right there that they're that uh what they're what they're doing uh how they're being represented how the evidence is being examined uh is fair uh and that's that's awesome uh that's interesting scott oh yeah go ahead uh scott i was just going to say it's interesting to me because uh occasionally today 2021 you'll see high council meetings coming up in the news and you never hear from the church's side but from one of section 102 we learned that whoever this high council was for half that room was there to watch over them being protected sometimes it's painted as if someone is marched in there and it's the church against this individual where the lord is saying no yeah where the lord is saying no that's not that's not how it is so anyone who sees one of these on the news can know half that room was designated to be on the side of the individual uh brought in i'm glad you brought that up i think that that is um one of my favorite nickname for the savior i might change my mind tomorrow but today it's advocate and and that and you have you come into that if you are in a membership council you have half the room or your advocates there and are acting like uh i love that no to prevent insult or injustice someone is there on your on your side yeah i would say john everyone's on your side but these people are specifically specific to be on you know to watch out for you and i think that's just an important thing because the way i've seen these painted in the news seems to be 15 against one right yeah bring them in and yeah let's skate them up against the wall and yeah no this and what are the others doing scott i think it might be good to talk about that the others are there to look at what yeah they're there to uh protect the the good name of the church yeah so half have the interest of the accused and half have the interest of of the church in mind um right this isn't all mercy all justices is supposed to be a blend of like just right and then the president is supposed to weigh all the evidence and uh and in in a prayerful attitude come to a conclusion of what should be done and what should be done should always be geared toward uh helping the person we're talking right now about disciplinary type of councils but high councils are used for other things but in disciplinary council it's always about how do we help that person truly repent right um you know the worth of souls okay we're back to section 18 for a second the worth of souls is great in the sight of god right therefore right therefore cry repentance and so so these councils are some some sins are serious and they need to be as far as helping that person repent of a of a serious egregious sin is going to take sometimes the wisdom and and uh and and prayerful action of a group of of men uh like this like the high council and the president will make a decision after hearing all the evidence and then the high council needs to then sanction that and if anyone feels like i don't know that we got all the evidence so let's look for instance in uh in verse 19 after the evidences are heard the counselors accuser and accused have spoken which they get to speak for themselves verse 18 says so everyone gets a voice here the president shall give a decision verse 19 says according to the understanding which he shall have of the case and call upon the twelve counselors to sanction the same by their vote but verse 20 says should the remaining counselors who have not spoken or any one of them after hearing the evidences and pleadings impartially discover an error in the decision of the president they can manifest it and the case shall have a re-hearing we want to get this right and by the way in this instance in this in this setting the president was the president of the church joseph smith was the president of this of this high council which i love the humility here the president the church could get it wrong for sure that's why we have a council and and if someone thinks that maybe he's out of line they ought to bring it up and say i think we maybe we missed an important piece of the evidence here president can we can we reconsider that and then verse 21 if after a careful re-hearing any additional light is shown upon the case then the decision will be altered accordingly if not then the previous decision will stand so i just i just think this is layered with uh just checks and balances right any any one of us can uh can make snap judgments but it's it's not very often that a group of i think humble dedicated uh people of well we got 12 high counselors plus the presidency so we got 15 people who are just trying to get it right trying to figure out the best way to help this person repent like that's gonna i think i think they're gonna get it right and if they don't which is possible then let's re-examine the evidence until we do so just a lot of layers in here just to make sure it's it's done well done right and that justice is done um but what would you say to a teenager who struggles with the idea that we have these at all right like someone who says this just seems kind of mean that you that you bring someone in it seems so unloving to bring someone in um and yet i would say any time i've been a part of any of these they've always been very positive and very uplifting and very um you know very good where i can see if you've never been a part of it it seems uh maybe a little more yeah scary and difficult so any any uh any advice for teachers or for parents who are trying to explain this to their youngsters well give it a shot um okay the the church handbook the current handbook has a great little one two three purposes of church disciplinary councils number one help protect others if there's somebody who has some tendencies to hurt people whether physically or emotionally any abusive language or or or actions that they're taking toward other people like those people need to be identified and talk to and try to we're trying to protect other people maybe from someone's negative influence maybe it could be like they're always like doctrinally digging it people are trying to sow seeds of doubt you know uh that can that can be a thing so so that we're saying of course any physical emotional sexual abuse anything like that we're trying to protect people yeah totally yes so yeah spiritual emotional physical all of that so protect others is number one number two is then help that person access the redeeming power of jesus christ through repentance that person uh clearly by the time they're they're in front of a council they have not been repenting on their own to a point where it's gotten so serious that we need it now let's see if we can help you all right let's see if we can help you uh and then the third is then to protect the integrity of the church so what does that mean scott to you yes so so sin cannot be especially serious sin you can't just turn a blind eye um this can start to stain the reputation of the church right if people are just allowed to just kind of do whatever and there's no real consequences we kind of say oh we shouldn't be doing that but then there's actually no real real consequence that that that sort of taints the taints the name of the church and the integrity of the doctrine i think you're exactly right john i bet you thought of alma chapter four i i'm starting to we've been to companions for so long i'm starting to think for you but i bet you thought of alma 4 where um alma the younger sees that the wickedness of the church was a great stumbling block to those who did not belong to the church right and he's got to go on this reactivation tour the same thing happens right with his father alma the elder back at the end of book of the book of mosiah where he has to put in this policy of of uh basically what we would call excommunicating people uh if they're not repenting and you can see how hard it is for him uh so here it is straight out of the book of mormon twice really close to each other the end of book of mosiah in the beginning of alma yeah and then even and i was thinking moroni in moroni 6 has this little tiny handbook of instructions in moroni 6 and also talks mentions briefly kind of a church council like this i i wanted to add that um correct me if i'm wrong but i'm looking in the newest handbook and it doesn't use the phrase disciplinary counsel anymore they're called you're right you're right yeah sorry i said that they're called membership counselors yeah that that makes sense because i remember on the high council where uh someone was was trying to come back and yet it was called a disciplinary council and i thought no it's probably the wrong word it was more like a reinstatement or something which which is what happened but uh it may be the idea membership council is great and i think and that also the words disfellowshipped and excommunication aren't in the manual anymore it talks about membership uh withdrawal or temporary membership restriction something like that yeah and scott i would i hear you saying one thing that and and correct me if i'm if i'm wrong here but it sounds like to me you're saying listen if someone is to this point the unloving thing would be to do nothing totally just let it go for the for the reputation of the church for others yep yeah yeah that could that could put other people in jeopardy yeah this so this is a a membership council is the loving step to protect people and protect the church when man i just don't see it painted that way uh often um by others but you're right hank those who have been involved and have been on a high council or been in a bishopric and seen these things they're just uh i have very positive beautiful feelings about some of those uh meetings and the uh the power of and the spirit of the atonement being made manifest has been amazing when i've been involved in those yeah and you're right and i'd say also john that not only are they powerful for just the people there but also i would in my experience the people who come in for the membership council the the member who is coming in um has a positive experience in my in my experiences with it they've had a positive experience it's been and it's been very humbling for me to see how how they proceed through this right what a what a a beautiful uh and humbling thing because i think everyone in the room was thinking the same thing i was i don't know if you were john ever but i was thinking well there but for the grace of god go i right um just just someone ended up in a bad place yeah you know elder ballard has a a whole article about church disciplinary councils back when they were called that back in 1990 an enzyme article september 1990 but he told about a story of a relief society president i'll just i'll just quote him he said a woman who had been a relief society president tells of the love and support she received during a painful period of disfellowshipment uh when they used to call it that she said quote when the brethren of the council listened to me i could feel love as i had never felt it before they all wept with me and then with agony she acknowledges elder ballard says quote every member of the church must realize that he or she is capable of sinning like you said hang there but for the grace of god go i there's a relief society president talking who went through something that uh i'm sure she didn't plan on going there and yet she went there and now here she is trying to be helped in how can i repent she said uh how i have paid for fooling myself about what i was doing right the justifications the rationalization and so so this is great bring bro you know and oftentimes by the way this is initiated by the member themselves right this isn't there's no witch hunts going on out there there may be cases where the the someone might be called in if they're belligerent if they're harming people of course but oftentimes these are initiated by the person as they want to to fully repent and so uh what a courageous thing and what a beautiful system is set in place yeah wow you you did something with 102 i did not know we could do here we were joking about the minutes of a meeting scott and you you were sandbagging us you said you were going to you were going to bring it can i just say one more thing um blades do yeah verse 23. i think this is interesting uh just to note that this is not just for disciplinary uh type things but uh it says in the case of the of difficulty respecting doctrine or principle if there is not a sufficiency written to make the case clear to the minds of the council then the president may inquire and obtain the mind of the lord by revelation these could be places where difficult doctrines are wrestled with and i love that the lord says first look in the scriptures scriptures are doctrinally primary and if it hasn't been sufficiently made clear in the scripture then the president can inquire the lord and receive revelation i i just think that's interesting i'm kind of a a doctrinal guy i'd love i love just to to to scour the scriptures looking for what's consistently taught and repeated and uh so i can have doctrinal confidence in uh in what i'm teaching or or how i'm trying to live my life and i love the lord just puts a primary a point to say is it in the scriptures is it clear in the scriptures if it's not then there's actually a system in place where the mind of the lord can be had by revelation so that can help scott i think that principle can help us in our own lives oftentimes i think and i think if we go way back in our episodes john you'll remember dr lily anderson talking about this she said oftentimes we go to the lord with questions when the answer has been made clear over and over and over in the scriptures uh i remember she used the example of a woman who said well i just haven't received an answer of should i move in with these these roommates who are doing these terrible things right and i just i keep going to the lord and asking him and i don't get a yes or no and she said well do you think they'll influence you to do bad things as well yeah i do she said i think that's been pretty made pretty clear in the scriptures what you should do about that right and no wonder you're not getting an answer it's in the scriptures pretty clearly so uh it reminds me and both of you will recognize this statement um check the syllabus right uh when a student comes with a question and i said that was in the syllabus it's almost as if the lord is saying yeah i've answered this one already a couple a couple of times so go ahead and look in the scriptures i like that scott uh yeah that might be interesting you guys want to hear some stories can you just tell some stories please do you want to know what the very first case was that the high council adjudicated or sat in council about you want you want to hear this was it this specific council this council two days after two days after no they were formed wow february 19th a brother named curtis hodges was accused by brother ezra thayer of the following charges listen to this the brother hodges when he preached he talked loudly and incoherently and when people tried to correct him he insisted that his behavior was inspired by a good and proper spirit but the truth was his behavior was hurting the work of god and so so they convened the council this guy when he started talking he starts yelling and people can understand what he's saying and he's like what the spirit the spirit is inspiring me so the the evidence was heard so this eyewitness says yeah the other day he was he was yelling so loudly that some neighbors were alarmed they came out to see if someone was hurt and another one's like yeah whenever he preaches he puts a damper on the meeting and it's not edifying and so so joseph smith is listening here to this case right and uh and at the end they had the other high councilman who's supposed to then sort of make sure he's being treated well right right no insults or no insult or injury yeah yeah and so the the meeting a minute say that uh one member of the council tried to speak on behalf of brother hodges but could say uh but few words uh so so he didn't get loud it doesn't sound like the guy who was speaking on behalf of brother hodges no he's like i don't really have a lot to say and [Laughter] maybe and then joseph smith said well let me see if i can sum up the evidence and he gave as his decision that uh the charges had been fairly sustained by good witnesses and the brother hodges ought to have confessed when he was first rebuked by brother thayer and that if he he said this if he had the spirit of the lord at the meetings when he hallowed he must have abused it and grieved it away that's what joseph said and all the counsel agreed with the decision brother hodges i like this he then arose and said that uh he saw that he was wrong he never saw he never saw it before uh and he appeared to feel thankful that he saw it and he said that he had learned more during this trial than he had since he came into the church he confessed freely his error and said he would attend to overcoming that evil the lord being his helper wow so that that ended that ended really well that's a very first one yeah kind of it's a great counselor a two counselor case yeah the lord gave him a bit of a softball on this slot how about this one to you and it is quite humorous yeah i don't think anyone i don't know that any account high councils are being convened about such things today but yeah but that was that's a fun story he was trying incoherent my favorite that witness that witness i i i was there your honor i heard it yeah the neighbors came out and they were like who's hurt like no nothing it's just brother hodges brother hodges is just preaching again and so i'm so sorry i love that the see that he said he'd learn so much that is a really nice that is awesome yeah right yeah i've never learned so much in my life since i joined the church than what i've learned here in that simple council so what a humble what a humble brother hodges that's awesome okay then the next day you guys want case number two then the next day wow this theirs is a busy council i mean yeah the very next day they were they were so this is two in a row uh the question of whether disobedience to the word of wisdom which had just barely been revealed right whether disobedience to the word of wisdom was a transgression sufficient to deprive an official member from holding an office in the church after having it sufficiently taught to him wow the context was at a church meeting in pennsylvania orson pratt and lyman johnson were there and some some members refused to partake of the sacrament because the elder administering it did not observe the word of wisdom lymon said that they're justified in doing that because the elders in transgression but orson pratt he said no the church is bound to receive the sacrament from an elder so long as he retained his office or his license so the council was like ooh this is a six counselor difficulty level yeah so they all spoke they heard the evidence and then joseph the president he said that no official member in this church is worthy to hold an office after having the word of wisdom properly taught them and then they neglect to comply or obey them and everyone sustained it so boom so day two on the job they're already right so the first one's kind of a church disciplinary and this one's more of a what's this what should be the policy right so they're kind of determining policy as well yeah yeah thanks scott those are both really fascinating stories there you go 102 this is our first council and correct me if i'm wrong but our second council is going to be in missouri right our second high council that's right yeah we're going to talk about that later on that's right okay that's right okay okay so transitioning to section 103 yeah you guys ready for that yes let's go to 103. all right so 103. look at the date the date is february 24th we're just we're just a week after the high council has been organized and guess what happens a difficult case another difficult case comes before the high council this case is not a disciplinary case this is a case of uh well let's just get into the history uh so let's back up now let's now go to july of 1833. this is on july 20th that's when mob violence breaks out against the saints in jackson county right over in missouri uh on the 23rd of july the church leaders signed an agreement to leave jackson county half of them by january the next half by the next april well then uh on the 9th of august oliver cowdery arrived in kirtland to tell joseph what's happening uh and then on the 31st of october uh through the 17th of november that time period that's when uh the hellish actions of the mob uh break out where mob violence recommences with satanic vigor and the fleeing saints gather mainly up north in clay county missouri and church leaders are sending letters to joseph smith saying what do we what do we do right uh meanwhile uh no now scott if i if i remember if i remember right it's because we had agreed to leave but then hired a lawyer in alexander donovan and the rest of his men and they said well if you're going to hire a lawyer that means that you're going to fight this extradition kicking us kicking you out of the county and so they picked up the intensity of the persecution because we had actually tried by legal means to uh to stop the the ousting right yeah that's right that's right yeah and so that now they're seeking guidance what do we do right so section 101 which you guys covered last week uh was received on the 16th and 17th of december and the lord gave the saints guidance uh and and hope what to do in that situation uh that doesn't make it till january 22nd so before section 101 makes it to missouri missouri church members hold a conference where they determine that they need to send two representatives the 900 miles from missouri back to kirtland to to council with the prophet so parley p pratt and lyman white volunteer and uh according to parley p pratt he said that they the conference instructed him to quote counsel with president smith and the church at kirtland and take some measures for the relief or restoration of the people thus plundered and driven from their homes so so they start off and they they make it uh in kirtland in february they make it to kirtland in february and uh this is a day or so this might be the day they arrive or or a day or two after i can't remember uh but section 103 so so interesting so 101 is on its way yep kind of missouri cross paths yep okay yeah and uh and then when they make it here uh joseph says we should convene the high council that's that's what happens here right so they need to hear they need to hear what's happening and they need to help make make some decisions on this and so uh so here they are so let's let's paint the picture so the the high council uh is first organized on the 17th of february one week later now they're convened uh other members were in attendance too just to kind of watch but the high council is kind of the hub and they're here to hear from parley p pratt and lyman white who just arrived and they came to ask quote when how and by what means zion was to be redeemed from our enemies and after hearing these men just give their report on the conditions of what was happening and then to hear that heartfelt question then joseph declares his intentions he stood and declared his intention to travel to missouri to assist in redeeming zion and between 30 and 40 conference attendees volunteered to go with him and so sometime either during that meeting or just after that meeting section 103 was received confirming that decision and giving instruction about that wow it's it's uh scott i i kind of heard this in the way you explained that but it it's fantastic that the lord had these men prepared as a council before parley and lyman show up as they're actually on their way right that's right they're they're ready yeah um you know it's interesting as well our listeners might be interested to know i didn't know this as i first heard the stories of the saints being kicked out of jackson county missouri but when they came to the to the council uh parley reported that those who had been driven away from their lands and scattered abroad had actually gained the sympathy of many of the people up north in clay county who were as kind and accommodating to the refugees as could reasonably be expected he said and and from them they could obtain food and raiment in exchange for their labor in so much that they were comfortable so here's a group of people who've been displaced they're refugees but they've fallen on a lot of a kind group in in clay county nevertheless parley says the idea of being driven away from the land of zion pained their very souls and they desired of god by earnest prayer to return to that land with songs of everlasting joy so what can be done what can be done it's interesting that you should say that scott because we usually talk about quincy illinois as the the compassionate town right that takes us in but that's not going to happen until 1838 1839 right fall of 1838 in the beginning of 1839 but here in 1833 was another county right you said clay county that took these refugees in from from the south from jackson county and there's one man in particular his name is michael arthur and if you go there there's a monument uh where he uh they would have called him a jack mormon at the time because he was a mormon sympathizer yeah a mormon sympathizer where he allowed oh i think it was somewhere around a thousand latter-day saints uh to live on his property and he hired them to work um i i i don't know if they survive without people like michael arthur yeah so it's not just missouri it's not just full of these wicked vindictive people but yeah just something about jackson county there's nothing about that place but but up north uh yeah i think we're different yeah we're compassionate yeah so uh i want to read a little bit from the from the minutes of this i was just summarizing earlier but here's the exact language and watch again how the council interacts here it says quote brother joseph then arose after hearing parliament and he said that he was going to zion to assist in redeeming it he then called for the voice of the council to sanction his going what do you guys think is that a wise choice right the prophet thrown himself on their wisdom and they all sanctioned without a dissenting voice he then said who will volunteer to go with me and then some 30 or 40 volunteered to go who were then present at the council joseph junior was then nominated and seconded to be the commander in chief of the armies of israel and the leader of those who volunteered to go and assist in the redemption of zion and and that decision was then carried by the vote of all present uh so so you see the work how important was the council in in this moment right right just one lit one week after it's formed when it's needed yeah absolutely this is their third case this is their third case how about that that level of difficulty just went to the extreme so what's in the verses here is so somewhere during this meeting is when section 103 comes either during we don't know from the historical record that we have if it was during the meeting or after the meeting but look at verse one verse one he he calls them my friends verily i say unto you my friends and the lord typically uses that phrase in the doctrine of covenants when he's referencing the group of high priests the high priests are consistently his friends and so joseph is still with the people so is it during the meeting is it after the meeting so here's the revelation to know how to act in the discharge of your duties concerning the salvation and redemption of your brethren who've been scattered on the land of zion he calls those in jackson county in verse two mine enemies why has god not intervened on behalf of his people and the two reasons he gives is verse two and three is the first reason he says you're driven and smitten by the hands of my enemies or they were on whom i will pour out my wrath without measure in my own due time for i have suffered them that is mine enemies thus far that they might fill up the measure of their iniquities that their cup might be full so reason number one that i've allowed this is the wicked need to be allowed to be wicked so that the punishment that comes upon them will be just right um and maybe we'll talk about the punishment that comes upon these people in that generation when we talk about section 105. um so bookmark that and then verse 4 he gives the second reason he says oh also that those who call themselves after my name might be chastened for a little season with a sore and grievous chastisement why well because they did not hearken altogether unto the precepts and commandments which i gave unto them they are not innocent for sure the lord is saying in verse four you're not you're not innocent actually at least there's enough of you that are not innocent you must suffer in fact the enemy there were innocent people who were suffering and this bothered joseph smith oliver cowdery said uh he he was eyewitness and he came to kirtland and then he wrote a letter back to his friends in missouri about what they were experiencing a letter dated the 10th of august 1833. he said this he said this tribulation would not have come upon zion had it not been for rebellion he said firstly there were rebellions against the one to whom were entrusted the keys and from thence it has spread down to the lowest and last to the lowest and least member and then he says it was necessary that these things should come upon us not only justice demands it but there was no other way to cleanse the church that's how oliver calvary feels about it and the lord seems to be saying the same thing here but it bothered joseph that there were there were some innocent people in here that suffered and he said the only way i can deal with this is the idea that if one part of your body is injured it's going to hurt the whole body right that that analogy from paul that right we're all part of the one body of christ and and so there were some innocent people for sure some dedicated consecrated people in missouri who were suffering because of the disobedience of some others so i was going to say there's a letter from w.w phelps to the prophet and saying quote i know it was right that we should be driven out of the land of zion that the rebellious might be sent away so there is the the feeling there that they know a little bit of what the lord is talking about when he says some did not hearken to the precepts and commandments which i gave yeah that's right so those are the two reasons he gives for for why this is happening one so that your enemies may fill up their iniquities so that the punishment that comes upon them will be just and two because you need to be chastened to be cleansed right now that the word chastened has that idea in mind chastening is intended to cleanse it means to make chaste to make you pure to make you to make you to make you clean so that's the idea first of all in verse 5 6 and 7 he assures them that from this moment on from this very moment they will begin to prevail against their enemies by hearkening to observe god's words they will never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet and the earth is given to the saints to possess it forever and ever and then he says but if you don't keep my commandments verse 8 and hearken not to observe all my words then the kingdoms of the world shall prevail against them this is how this is your your do or die here you were set to be a light to the world to be the savior of men and if you don't then uh if you're if you're not if then you're that salt that's lost its savior he goes on to say so you you stay close to me and you cannot fail hopefully you've learned your lesson from this and from that lesson you can learn to to hearken unto my uh my words all of them and you'll prevail from this point on the fact that we know they don't uh prevail from that point on uh tells us which way they went historically but let me make a quick note on verse 10 uh about the salt of the earth that's a very new testament idea comes from the sermon on the mount the idea was that salt was very valuable uh because it could preserve meat and so you could trade salt almost like cash but if you had dirt in your salt right if you got impurities in your salt it's good for nothing uh it's you can't use it anymore right and so it says to be trodden under the foot of men they would actually use it dump it out on the roads to suck up all the moisture on the roads from all the humans and the animals around uh all the moisture that's uh on the ground uh and it would just be walked on right so the idea is don't let that impurity into your life yeah this is the same jesus speaking from who spoke in the new testament yeah here he is you're remembering that uh elder carlos e ac quotation where he said in priesthood conference years ago that salt will not lose its savior with age it's only lost through mixture and contamination and you know then taught that don't get mixed up and contaminated yeah that's a loser yeah one other interesting thing that uh about salt since we're on the topic is that in the old testament sometimes they would use salt in their covenant making because salt was a symbol of eternity sometimes they call it the the covenant of salt which is an everlasting covenant immutable and when you become my covenant people then you are considered the salt of the earth yeah let's continue shall we so he goes on to instruct them to well he gives perspective in verse 12 and 13 that after much tribulation i said back in section 58 when you first got to this to the land of zion after much tribulation cometh the blessing and this is the blessing which i am promising you which is your redemption your redemption and the redemption of your brethren even what he means by that is their restoration to the land of zion he says so he's not saying give up on jackson county missouri he's saying it's time now to line up your hearts purify your your intentions follow my words with exactness and and after the tribulation you've gone through it's it's time to restore you to the land of zion they call that the redemption of zion and it needs to come verse 15 by power it needs to come by power therefore verse 16. i will raise up a man like moses who will lead them like the children of israel for you are the children of israel right you are the covenant people you are the seed of abraham and you must needs be led out of bondage by power and as your fathers the ancient israelites were led at first even so shall the redemption of zion be he's being pretty pretty dramatic here right this is going to be a a another exodus story in some ways right bringing them from their state of bondage back into the land of zion it's going to be great uh and he uses another term in verse 19 and 20. he says but for them i i told them that uh my angel will go up before you but not my presence and in time you'll be let you'll possess the goodly land and then he says in verse 21 he says that uh my servant joseph smith jr i'm talking to you he is the man to whom i liken the servant to whom the lord of the vineyards spake in the parable which i have given unto you so that's a reference back to dnc 101 verse 55. remember the parable back there maybe just jump back for just a second that there was he gives this parable that uh that the lord had a very choice land a lord of a vineyard some some nobleman and he told his servants to to build a hedge and then to there's these 12 trees and build a hedge around it so the enemies can get through and build a tower so they can watch to make sure the trees don't get corrupted but then they were like why do we need to build a tower like this is just like everything's fine like we don't need a tower right and then and then the the enemies the enemies actually come in they break through the hedge they break down the trees because they didn't build the tower and then the lords or the nobleman's like guys verse 52 he's like why what is the cause of this great evil actually not to have done even as i commanded you you know and they're like yeah we probably should we probably should have done what you told us do now we see the consequences right and then but then he says jump to verse 55 he says the lord of the vineyards said unto one of his servants go and gather together the residue of my servants and take all the strength of my house which are my warriors my young men and they that are of middle age also among all my servants who are the strength of my house and and take them and i want you in verse 57 to go straightway back into that land break down the walls of my enemies throw down their tower and scatter their watchmen right we're going to take this land back this is a pretty thinly veiled uh parable right as to this yeah uh and i wonder what he's talking about what could he be talking about here what in light of recent events yeah but so in then in verse 103 he's saying joseph smith you're the man whom i liken to that servant who should gather the strength of my house and that's what he says in verse 22 therefore let my servant joseph smith jr we're now back in section 103 say unto the strength of my house my young men the middle age gather yourselves together to the land of zion upon the land which i have bought with money that has been consecrated to me and let all the churches round about all the churches all the branches of the church let them send up wise men with their monies and purchase lands even as i have commanded them he's actually repeating what he said in section 101 there are two ways you're going to get zion back one strength of my house is built up the young men and the middle age you're going to go as like an armed force to take this land back and number two you're going to purchase the land uh legally right so that's kind of an odd thing so we're going to go take it by military force or we're going to buy it in an upstanding business like way well it turns out that the the purpose of the military force was simply to ensure that those who'd been kicked out could be brought back safe there was actually joseph will later tell us no intention uh on any in any way to fight unless they absolutely had to it was just to to be there so that the innocent could come back and body guards right body guards yeah walk them back in escort them that's right didn't uh governor dunkland give him some positive reinforcement at some point totally he was he was going to right right yeah so uh the governor the governor uh daniel duncan's his name uh he according to some uh notes here in the history of the church says the governor duncan manifested a willingness to restore us back if we will request it and uh in in 18 in february of 1834 the governor reiterated his his position in a formal reply saying that he's willing to do that he fully recognized that the mormons had a right to organize a military body he said indeed it's your duty to do so so the governor uh says that the mormons obviously have a right to the land and you've obviously got a right to then organize a military body in fact you've got a duty to do that he agreed to meet with them with the some state militia and with their forces combined they would peacefully escort those who'd been kicked out of their land back to their land that was the plan so yeah so they felt like they have the the backing of the of the governor of the state of missouri and so they feel like they're on solid ground right and scott you had mentioned that they're going to use more money to buy land but they had already purchased some yeah they had already purchased two thousand acres or so uh somewhere around that's right yeah and it had just been taken right somebody just pushed you off and taken your your land and like 200 i think 203 homes had been totally deroofed or destroyed burned um yeah the properties being in fact when some people in missouri hear that the the mormons are coming to get their land back and there was all kinds of inflated stories of the numbers and their intentions and what sort of odes they were shouting out what they were going to do to the missourians and stuff like that none of which was true right but uh but in in panic they went and tried to basically destroy everything else that was there so that they wouldn't want it back uh and so they i mean they were they were just in intent on uh keeping the mormons out yeah but the lord's basically giving them a full full speed ahead right let's organize this military group and then let's keep it all the wise he calls them wise men uh in verse 23 let the wise men with their monies come and purchase lands even as i have commanded them let's let's buy the lands so that the missourians who are there can be justly compensated if they want to leave they can leave uh we'll buy their lands from them buy our own land back no no buy more land so that those who hate us don't have to live by us we'll buy your house how about that we'll give you just compensation uh yeah and so in fact when they when they actually get there i'm jumping ahead a little bit here but uh when they actually get there there's a little uh meeting with some from the the jackson county side and with joseph smith and some of the leaders and they decide that 12 12 people should be chosen by a six by the mormons and six by those in jackson county uh totally neutral parties and those 12 people should go in and and evaluate the worth of the land of the mormons and the worth of the land of the jackson county people who are still there and and then they would agree that and joseph smith said what we're going to do is we would if you'll give us one year we'll buy all the lands from the missourians if they don't want to live by us we'll buy their lands in one year's time so if we can have these neutral parties assess the worth of those properties we'll come in and and buy it within a year's time uh we don't want war that's our last resort we just we just want to live peaceably and lawfully in this land that we ought to live we we own we bought it with our money and we're willing to buy your land that that we haven't bought yet we just want to live in that spot we've got really important reasons to do so but so yeah that's that's where this is going uh and that's that's what verse 23 is referencing in section 105 we'll mention it again so we're just maybe getting a little bit ahead this is all going to be taught in the same lesson so you can cross-reference back and forth but that's what that's all about so uh the lord promises them that those who curse them will be cursed and my presence will go with you and i'll avenge my enemies and avenge you of my enemies under the third and fourth generation and then verse 27 this is a touching interesting verse he said 27-28 let no man be afraid to lay down his life for my sake uh you might gulp at that at that point if you're being recruited for this mission for whoso layeth down his life for my sake shall find it again there's a nice new testament matthew 16 right my disciples need to be willing to lay down their life remember he says and if you lose your life for my sake then you'll find it in verse 28 whoso is not willing to lay down his life for my sake is not my disciple please join us for part two of this podcast [Music]

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Length: 61min 20sec (3680 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 10 2021