Fatima Today Show Ep. 610 Honey From the Rock Roy Schoeman

welcome to Fatima today I'm Carolyn Walsh in 1917 we know that the Blessed Mother appeared to the young children in the hills of Fatima Lucia Francisco and Jacinta and she implored them to make sacrifices and to pray for the conversion of sinners all around the world a lot of times we think that we need to pray for our loved ones who are already Catholic or already Christian and we pray for those those conversions regularly but she wasn't just speaking about Christians and Catholics she was speaking about the Jewish people as well we have a wonderful guest here today Roy Schulman author of the book honey from the rock Roy I'd like to welcome you great to back be back here yeah it's wonderful to have you back Roy you wrote this book honey from the rock that tells the story of the conversion of 16 Jews who are now Catholics who have joined the church join the mystical body of Christ and their stories are varied their backgrounds are varied and the things that brought them to the church their experiences are all different but it's a wonderful compilation and I look forward to having you well let me maybe be a bit argumentative maybe that has to do with being Jewish maybe not but and and address two things you just said one is that I wrote the poem and it's is there our first person witness testimonies and I I think any of our viewers who have read witness testimonies as a beauty and as a power to somebody's own testimony of what went on in their soul and in their life that can't be duplicated in a narrative form by someone else writing it so what I did was I assembled them I compiled them I added them in the case of dead people it was hard to get them to actually write their story so since I had to cut and paste from things they had written by their first-person witness testimonies and the other is of this 16 Jews in this book are all now Catholic which is true but at the risk of being pedantic I'd like to point out that every Jew through history who has died is now Catholic because being Catholic is not is not a distinctive flavor like one choice among many being Catholic is having the truth of the relationship between man and God right everybody once they're dead knows who Jesus is and knows that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah in some sense especially Jews because they've lived all their life with an eye to the Jewish Messiah so every Jew who has passed away is in that sense Catholic knows the truth of the Catholic faith these 16 Jews had the grace to discover the truth of the Catholic faith before they died rather than after they died and were thereby able to live out their life in the in the joy and the intimacy with God which is only available through the Catholic faith well thank goodness you're here because being a cradle Catholic that is something that I really had never considered and I'm sure many of our viewers had not either so the clarification is perfect and and we appreciate that continue to clarify things as we go along there are sixteen people in this and I'll just share what I started with when I opened up this book was Rosslyn Moss who probably some of our viewers are familiar with she's a woman who converted to Catholicism after a few years several years it wasn't an immediate conversion by any means she had she had a miraculous and very beautiful conversion to Christianity to discovering that Jesus in fact was the Jewish Messiah and that was that was miraculous and instantaneous spot she got swept up in Protestant circles and that is one of the reasons I wrote this book in fact he was one of the reasons I wrote my previous book salvation is from the Jews which we may or may not talk about is because in my view what's happening is the following which is an unprecedent number of jews are coming to faith in jesus i think i'm precedented since apostolic times the numbers are amazing in in 67 there were a few thousand Messianic Jews in the United States today there are over two hundred thousand there are that compares to about 450,000 Orthodox Jews so there's already one Messianic Jew for every two Orthodox Jews the vast majority of Jews who come to faith in Jesus come to faith in Jesus through the working of the Holy Spirit in their soul and then they get swept up into Protestant circles because it's the Protestants who are out evangelizing them is the Protestant organisations who are out there to educate them and catechized them once they express an interest in Christianity there's very little on the part of the Catholic Church that's out there to receive these Jews who receive the grace to know who Jesus was and getting back to your question forgive me for having my grass right but Rosslyn Moss was one of those situations she was evangelized by you know born-again Christians she had some kind of miraculous experience that she goes into in the book and she woke up in the morning absolutely in love with Jesus and knowing that he was the Messiah and feeling like she could walk on the air and I think she says she wishes that she had a ladder that could climb to the moon so she could climb on the moon and shout to the whole world that Jesus is the Messiah but the people who had introduced her to Jesus for Protestants and she naturally thought that was the truth and it took her I think was close to 20 years it was defined her way to the truth of the Catholic Church and to I mean to me that's a tragedy that's obvious in some sense a tragedy to her too that these these Jews have gotten over the hard part because if you're Jew and become Christian you lose everything in a sense right you lose your family in many cases you know they feel that you've betrayed them and you lose your friends and you lose your entire obviously religious infrastructure and everything so to lose all of that and cannot find the sacraments you know to not find the ultimate sweetness of Christ which is in the sacraments and in particular in the Eucharist I mean that's that's horrible right because you kind of have given up everything but you haven't found the rainbow the the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow am I talking no the reason I title the book honey from the rock is because that comes from one of the Psalms honey from the rock but that's a picture of the sweetness of Christ in the Eucharist and these Jews who you know find themselves in Messianic Jewish circles or in Protestant circles they don't get the fullness of the honey from the rock they don't get Jesus in the Eucharist I want to read something from your preface they were discussing earlier that so beautifully captures what each of these stories all of these converts are I want to clarify though are they convert or are they fulfilled Jews I don't mind the word convert because you have to speak English and have people understand you and that's the word but logically speaking I would argue they're not conference because a convert is somebody who changes from one thing to another and these people haven't changed anything the Catholic Church is the true form of Judaism after the Jewish Messiah came who was Jesus so it's Judaism itself which became the Catholic Church and these Jews just went from being Jews who were wrong about who Jesus was - duze who were right about who Jesus was but I would argue they're not only just as Jewish as ever but there are they're more Jewish than ever and all of them feel the same way I mean all of them the convert sin this book consider themselves fulfilled Jews completed Jews they haven't turned their back on anything I think that's one of the very interesting things reading these stories is that they they do not denounce what they've come from they do not feel so they've turned away from something rather they do feel like they've they've been pulled towards something much greater than themselves that was the ultimate expression of their faith that's right and very often they have more of a heart for Judaism in the Jewish people after their conversion than before and very often when they've entered the church they spend the rest of their lives working for the salvation of their Jewish that's right and we'll get to some some of that specifically but I want to read this quote because it's really beautiful and and I was saying too early that being a cradle Catholic myself and many of us are many who watch this program are this struck me - it was it was very moving before becoming Catholic it was as though trying to know God was like trying to suck water from a rock maybe at times getting enough to moisten one's lips but after becoming Catholic once participating in the sacramental life of the church those few sparse drops became a geyser a tidal wave of grace sweeping one away in a flood of consolation of intimacy with God himself honey from the rock indeed a raging river of honey flooding one away into a sea of divine intimacy it's so beautiful that you refer specifically to the sacraments of the church because all of us in the church are prone to being taking them lightly not being as serious about their intensity and how beautiful and how consoling they are and how necessary they are for all of our salvation whether we're a fulfilled Jew or a cradle Catholic those those sacraments are the the essence of our lives I often think of the analogy to me the the situation at cradle Catholics are in is kind of in some sense parallel is a situation of a mirror of what Americans are in let me explain if you grow up as an American you're used to electric light you're used to indoor plumbing you walk in the room you flick a light switch the room is lit up you know you you go to the sink you turn a faucet and clean water runs out and you don't think twice about this because you've grown up with it you live with it but imagine an african tribesmen or something from a village without any of this who comes to the West for the first time and it's like my goodness instead of lighting a fire you touch a button and the light comes on yeah and instead of having to you know go to the well and and bring a pocket back you turn a knob and water comes out you know it's mind-boggling the wealth of this the riches of this the luxury of it and cradle Catholics are kind of in that situation they've had at all their lives and so they're not aware of it these Jews who in many cases and I don't know if they'll have a chance to talk about individual cases but they went through their life hungry for God and thirsting for God and straining and straining and straining as I said in that introduction like trying to suck honey from Iraq you know for just though the slightest taste of the presence of God and then they come into the sacraments you know it's like that african tribesmen who discovers running water you know and sometimes just like if you have that tribesman as a houseguest you'd appreciate you know your your household comforts loss or fatal Catholics can can learn to appreciate what they have in the church more by seeing it through the eyes at these Congress a pair of fresh eyes is always so helpful that awesomeness and even as the mother of children when they get something when they're spiritually awakened to some truth that you're trying to pass on to them or they see or you know the bells ring at church at the consecration and that gasp that you just listened to and you don't oftentimes don't think much about it but that freshness with a child's eyes is similar to this freshness of these fulfilled Jews and their story it's it's really it's so beautifully moving and inspiring how did you come to know that you needed to write this book that you need to compile this book I was I would I was leaned on by the publisher it's really true but I eventually decided that it was God speaking through the publisher but the publisher would call me up the publishers Ignatius press I'm very grateful and honored that Ignatius press published my first book salvation yes and after that came out you know they called me up one day and said you know we think it would be a good idea if you put together like a Jewish surprised by truth collection of Jewish convert stories and I went yeah yeah yeah I'll think about it and they called me up six months later and again it was like yeah yeah yeah I'll pray about it I'm praying about it six months later well have you prayed enough about it well I don't know and then like finally they called me up and said we have assigned an editor to the book you'll be working with so-and-so and but I was the Holy Spirit working through them I was reluctant to because I was a snob and I like my own words better than I liked other people's words I guess but once I started doing it and especially now that it's out and I've seen the effect its had Archbishop Burke a wonderful very Orthodox Bishop of ours in st. Louis mm-hmm as a matter of fact he recently said published that any priest who gives communion to a pro-choice politic has committed a mortal sin you know I mean that's strong not only saying that you shouldn't do it but you're actually committing a serious sin if you do it anyway very strong Bishop and he wrote something very beautiful about honey from the rock he wrote that I did the same thing in a different way in honey from the rock that I did in salvation is from the Jews in other words show the absolute unity between Judaism in the Catholic faith show the fulfillment of the Jewish promise in the Jewish nature in the Catholic Church in salvation is from the Jews I did theologically and historically and in honey from the rocket came from the the words of these fulfilled Jews so okay you've just said so much that I want to jump on I'm gonna backtrack though you really were pressured to write this book and the Holy Spirit was leaning on you through the know similarly with your first book salvation is from the Jews that was directly the Holy Spirit waiting on you tell us that story hardly that was a nightmarish experience I had a miraculous conversion myself really beautiful it's described in both honey from the rock and salvation is from the Jews but first I had an experience of Christ and then I had an experience of Mary and by then I knew that the Catholic Church was the truth and you know I mean everything else in life fell away and I was a Harvard Business School professor at the time and none of that had any meaning anymore and you know I just jumped you know body and soul into the faith and into the practice of the religion image of prayer but what am I supposed to do with this you know what's called calling me to obviously was calling me to something to give me all these graces and your was I supposed to be a priest was I supposed to be religious what am I supposed to do with my life and then for about 10 years I had no idea what I was supposed to do with my life and it was really agony I knew I was supposed to do something how you know what and then the last couple of years of those ten years I started getting messages from all kinds of people usually from Catholic Charismatic that I was supposed to write a book but I didn't know what the book was supposed to be about or what book but all these people would just come up to me and say you know you're supposed to write a book and about the final case of that been on Fatima today I was working on Fatima today as a volunteer and there was a very charismatic Catholic layman named Frank Kelly who was the guest that day and I would think I was working in the control room and he has all you know the standard charismatic gifts of you know gift of knowledge and so forth sometimes and after the show he was praying over everybody and he prayed over me and he said the Lord has a scripture verse for you he said read and I believe the verse was Jeremiah 32 maybe a sec Araya 32 but I think is Jeremiah 32 Frank Kelly said I don't know what it is I don't know what it means but when you go home read it I'm thinking because I was pretty cynical I'm thinking oh yeah sure it's probably one of the standard things like you know I will love you always stuff you know just pulled it out of his back pocket and I go home and I open the Bible to read it and it says quote take all the words I give you and write them in a book say every word and it's one of only two places in the Old Testament where the word book appears by the way isn't so I still didn't know what but I mean it's just like a tremendous pressure you know and slowly opening up that I'm supposed to write a book I didn't know water was supposed to be then one day I was driving home from Mass and I actually had to pull over by the side of the highway because the thoughts came flooding in so fast in the images and and I when I got home I just immediately had to start writing and whenever I would stop writing for a day or do something else I would actually get in this tremendous black cloud of oppression of I mean this almost like suicidal depression and the only thing which her naked lift would be to go back to writing and it was to say it was an urgent read was to solve a salvation is from the Jews yep and it's a wonderful wonderful book so helpful you know as Catholics I don't mean to dump on all of us Catholics but really we don't have a strong history oftentimes of how our faith grew you know the best way to dump on you Catholics nowadays leaning is to think of how the Jews in the days of Jesus are now let's look at the Jews in the pages of the New Testament right how they were given everything by God and they were blind to it right and going their own way remember Jesus called him all through the marriage feast right and they said no no I got a new wife I got to take care of her I got a new field you know I got to go plow it I got a couple of ox and I have to test them out that I think this the situation of the Jews 2,000 years ago it's like the situation of the Catholics today you know in other words they have everything handed them on a silver platter so they've become blasé okay so follow up with this Roy you're we were speaking earlier and you were saying that the one of the reasons for the compilation of this book certainly is to share these conversion stories or these fulfillment stories in another word it's really we're going back to our roots now we're going back to the Jewish people who are may ultimately be what converts us what what brings us Catholics to our fullness in our faith they are in many instances showing us the way well they first of all they started out showing you the way right and since the doing salvation is from the Jews by the way those words are from Jesus himself and John 4:22 to the Samaritan woman at the well occasionally Catholics got very indignant and say salvation is from the Jews how dare you say that to which I can say I didn't say it pick it up with Jesus he said it so they they initially brought salvation of the world through Jesus then you're actually inviting me to going to a long rap but the the overall picture that I see in salvation history is that salvation initially came to the Jews through Christ I mean first through the revelation of the Old Testament and through their election as the chosen people then finally that was kind of fulfilled through the sending God Jesus was God right the second person in the Most Holy Trinity God became a man and he he became a Jewish man and lived among Jews and and brought the the fullness of divinity to humanity in that so of we threw him you know salvation is from the Jews so salvation first came to the Jews first through the revelation and then through Jesus but then the Jews rejected Jesus by and large and didn't accept him as the Messiah and salvation moved to the Gentiles went to the Gentiles through Christianity and actually Christianity is really the Catholic Church I don't want to offend anybody that's the form of Christianity that Jesus introduced and the sacraments I mean the the the Last Supper right that was a Catholic Mass this is my body this is my blood and it was Jesus was the priest officiating I mean we know that that the sacraments and the the Catholic Church and the mass and all of that is the Christianity that jesus promised so that's real Christianity but I love our Protestant brother too but anyway okay that's not so that's another show but so salvation moved to the Gentiles through Christianity ie the Catholic Church but then at the end of time the the veil will be lifted from the eyes of the Jews and they too will come to faith in Christ and that will usher in the second coming now we know the sequence of events from both Scripture and from the Catechism of the Catholic Church let me read a couple of verses from Romans 11 but Romans 11 is st. Paul's letter to the Romans is really the mother lode of theology about the mysterious role of Judaism in Salvation history between the first and second coming Paul starts out saying I asked then has God rejected his people by no means I myself AM an Israelite God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew then Paul goes on to say what then Israel failed to obtain what it saw the elect obtained it but the rest were hardened as it is written God gave them a spirit of stupor I said should not see and ears that should not hear down to this very day let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see big mystery here the Jews failure to recognize Jesus wasn't just due to their stubbornness and hard-heartedness it was also actually part of God's plan okay God quote gave them eyes that should not see hairs that should not hear down to this very day then Paul goes on to say I ask them have they stumbled so us to fall by no means through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles the Jews failure to recognize Christ was necessary for salvation to go to the Gentiles because if the Jews had all accepted Christ and therefore Christianity it would have looked like Christianity was a part of Judaism and that Gentiles could at best be second class Christians that danger was avoided by the Jews failure to recognize Christ very interesting then Paul goes on to say now if their trespass means riches for the world and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles how much more will their full inclusion mean okay so how much more will it mean for the Gentiles when the Jews come to Christ then he goes on to say if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead okay okay so I think what Paul's alluding to here is is what's called the great apostasy which we know from the words of Jesus Jesus prophesies shortly before the crucifixion he says when the Son of Man returns will he even find faith left on the face of the earth in other words he's prophesying this widespread falling away from the faith just before the second coming I think that's the dead that Paul is referring to and the life from the dead is the revitalization of the church which may come when the Jews come to faith in Christ or leap before the second coming and I know I have to wrap up but let me just read two sentences here the end of Romans 11 lest you this is Paul speaking lest you be wise in your own conceits I want you to understand this mystery brethren a hardening has come upon part of Israel until the full number of the Gentiles come in and so all Israel will be saved and this is this is referring the second coming I don't have time to go into now but we know it from the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 674 says quote the the glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by always real okay that's the second coming okay so we see this in the conversion in in this compilation of just sixteen and I'm sure they're as you said there's some two hundred thousand now the Messianic Jews in the United States in the United States alone and that certainly is telling us that I think it's telling us where we are on this yeah I just have to say it's a beautiful book in so many ways it inspires anybody who reads it I think both it's interesting for Jewish people to read it it's very interesting for Catholics and for Christians who are not quite there in the fullness of faith in the Catholic Church a way for them to really understand the beauty of it all and in the the thirst-quenching beauty of the Catholic Church boy quickly tell us one thing that you want everybody to take from this book the the Catholic faith is not a religion it is the relationship between God and man that God introduced onto earth to reverse the effects of the fall and to bring man into the greatest intimacy with God and unity with God and joy that is possible while in this life and to bring him to the best possible state in the next that's excellent thank you so much for being here thank you for joining us today we hope you join us again next week at the same time Jacinta one of the three children to whom our Lady appeared received the statement from our lady war is a punishment for sin Jacinta one of the three children to whom our Lady appeared received this statement from our lady priest must be pure very pure they should not busy themselves with anything except what concerns the church and souls the disobedience of priests to their superiors and to the Holy Father is very displeasing to our Lord you you

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Length: 28min 58sec (1738 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 17 2013