[THEME MUSIC] >> Doug: WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE," AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON IN THE MIDST OF THIS ADVENT SEASON, I AM DOUG KECK DIRECTING TRAFFIC, HOLIDAY TRAFFIC FOR "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." QUESTIONS. SO SEND THEM TO US AT SpitzersUniversity@EWTN.com. OF COURSE DO NOT FORGET ABOUT FATHER SPITZER'S MANY WEB SITES. THE SHOW IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE ON DEMAND AND ON OUR EWTN YOUTUBE CHANNEL. IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE THE PROGRAM AGAIN, YOU CAN WATCH ON YOUR TELEVISION OR HOME COMPUTER. A VERY POPULAR BOOK, "THE DEVIL IS REAL," THERE'S STILL TIME TO GET THAT FOR SOMEBODY FOR CHRISTMAS AS WELL AS "CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES." WE HAVE A NEW BOOK OF THE MONTH FOR DECEMBER, "ADOPTION, SHOULD YOU, COULD YOU, AND THEN WHAT?' STRAIGHT ANSWERS FROM A PSYCHOLOGIST AND ADOPTIVE FATHER OF 10. WHO COULD IT BE? DR RAY GUARENDI. NO ONE ELSE FILLS ALL OF THOSE BILLS. BUT SOME WONDERFUL BOOK THROUGH OUR RELIGIOUS CATALOGUE. SPEAKING OF FILLING THE BILL, THERE'S ONLY ONE MAN. FATHER ROBERT SPITZER. GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN, FATHER. >> Father Spitzer: IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, DOUG. >> Doug: DO YOU WANT TO KICK EVERYTHING UP WITH A PRAYER? >> Father Spitzer: ABSOLUTELY. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR MANY BLESSINGS TO US, ESPECIALLY THE BLESSING OF THIS GOOD MINISTRY IN OUR CAPABILITY TO SERVE IN IT. BLESS DOUG, MYSELF, THE WHOLE AUDIENCE TO INSPIRE GUIDANCE, PROTECT US SO THAT EVERYTHING WE DO WILL BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, CHURCH, AND KINGDOM. WE ASK ALL OF THESE THINGS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. AND MAY YOU RECEIVE WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. BE TOO I HOPE YOU HAD A GOOD THANKSGIVING. IT'S BEEN WHEN I DID HAVE A GREAT THANKSGIVING. >> Doug: THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE US TOO MANY DETAILS, SO WE WILL MOVE ON FROM THERE. YOU ARE A HAWAIIAN BOY, AND AN L.A. DODGERS FAN. I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU, I SAW THIS DOCUMENTARY, "SOUL OF THE CHAMPION, GIL HODGES, HIS STORY. WHEN THEY WERE IN BROOKLYN, WE CALLED THEM THE BUMS. WE DIDN'T CALL THEM THAT WHEN THEY WERE IN L.A. SEVERAL DODGER PLAYERS AND COACHES THAT HE WAS THE ONLY PLAYER THAT WAS NEVER BOOED, SUPPOSED TO BE A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL GUY. WAS HE PLAYING FOR YOU? HE MOVED OUT THERE IN '58 WHEN HE WAS PLAYING. HE MIGHT'VE LEFT THERE IN '60 OR SOMETHING. >> Father Spitzer: ALAS, I DID MISS HIM. NEVERTHELESS, I GOT TO SEE SOME GREAT PITCHERS AND SOME OF THE GREAT WORLD SERIES GAMES AND PLAYOFF GAMES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. WE CAN SEE THE MOVE OF COURSE IN HAWAII UNTIL TELSTAR CAME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YEAR IT WAS. PROBABLY AROUND '66. WHEN I WAS A FRESHMAN. >> Doug: THAT LATE? THE DODGERS HAD THEIR RUN THERE. THE BEST PITCHER I SAW GROWING UP, SANDY KOUFAX. >> Father Spitzer: I THINK HE IS RIGHT UP THERE. >> Doug: HE HAD A CURVEBALL, YOU COULD GO AROUND THE CORNER, THEY USED TO SAY. >> Father Spitzer: HE WAS OF COURSE A HUGE CAKE, THAT WE ALL LOVE TO SEE. [LAUGHS] A JOY. EXACTLY. THE OLD GREASE BALL. >> Doug: THAT'S RIGHT. ABSOLUTELY. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS HERITAGE BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE BASEBALL. BELOW AND YES, RIGHT. [LAUGHS] >> Doug: NOW WE ARE DOWN MEMORY LANE HERE. THE DODGERS OF '63, '64, '65. WE HAVE AN ARTICLE FROM A RECENT PROGRAM I WAS LOOKING THROUGH. A LOT OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE CULTURE. HERE IS AN ARTICLE THAT JUST CAME OUT FROM "CRISIS MAGAZINE." A VERY INTERESTING THINKER, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR AT ALL BUT UP IN THE NORTHEAST, HE TALKS ABOUT THE IDEA OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HEALTHY CULTURE AND A SICK CULTURE. HE SAYS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HEALTHY AND SICK CULTURE IS NOT THAT THE FORMER IS FULL OF SAINTS IN THE LATTER IS FULL OF DEVILS, IT'S THAT THE HEALTHY CULTURE RAISES HIGH WALLS AGAINST EVIL. CONSCIOUSLY, DIRECTING ITS YOUNG PEOPLE TO DO IT'S GOOD, NOBLE, FAITHFUL, AND PURE. IN A HEALTHY CULTURE, THE DANGER IS YOU LOOK DOWN ON THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN. IN A SICK CULTURE, IT'S EVEN MORE COMMON BUT OF A LATE -- A LOOK AT THOSE WHO HAVE NOT FALLEN. IN A HEALTHY CULTURE, DECENT PEOPLE AVOID THE PERIL OF THIS BY CALLING TO MIND THEIR SINS AND REMEMBERING A QUOTE, "THEE BY THE GRACE OF GOD GO I." >> Father Spitzer: TO BE THAT YOU THOUSAND WHICH WE LIVE, CONSTITUTED BY THE MEDIA, THE EDUCATIONAL ESTABLISHMENT, ALL OF THE VARIOUS FORCES THAT BRING VALUES AND IDEALS, VILLAINS AND HEROES, TO THE FLOOR. TO MOTIVATE US AND MOVE US. THERE IS A COLLECTIVE SPIRIT WE CALL "CULTURE." WITH THESE HEROES AND VILLAINS AND SO FORTH. THE IDEA IS THAT WHEN CULTURE IS STRONG AND WE HAVE AN IDENTITY WAS SOMETHING THAT IS CALLING US TO SOMETHING HIGHER, VIRTUOUS, SOMETHING SHORT, RELIGIOUS, SOMETHING BEYOND OURSELVES, NOT THE MERELY EGOTISTICAL AND MATERIALISTIC, NOT THE NARCISSISTIC, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY THE DEFINITION OF A VERY HEALTHY CULTURE. BUT THE CULTURE THAT CALLS YOU TO NARCISSISM, EGOCENTRICITY, MATERIALISM AND THINGS THAT ARE BENEATH YOU, BENEATH YOUR SOUL, BENEATH YOUR POTENTIAL INEQUALITIES THAT THE HUMAN COMMUNITY CAN BRING TO LIFE, THEN THAT PARTICULAR CULTURE IS SICK COMING OUT. IT'S STILL, PULLING EVERYONE DOWN BENEATH THEMSELVES. COLLECTIVELY AS WELL AS INDIVIDUALLY. A SICK CULTURE IS DEFINITELY A REAL DRAWBACK. THAT'S WHAT LEADS TO WHAT NORMALLY PEOPLE CALL "CULTURAL IMPLOSION." HISTORY IS FILLED WITH EXAMPLES OF CULTURES THAT GOT VERY, VERY DECADENT INDEED. AND EVENTUALLY EITHER DESTROYED THEMSELVES BY MEANS OF WAR OR DESTROYED THEMSELVES BY MEANS OF JUST FADING AWAY. IN OUR CASE, THERE IS NO POPULATION TO REPLACE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY CULTURAL COHESIVENESS ANYMORE. IT'S ANY HUMAN BEING FOR THEMSELVES, RIGHT? THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT I'LL PURSUE WHATEVER ADVANTAGES I CAN PURSUE AND YOU DO THE SAME AND WE WILL ALL BE HAPPY. WE AREN'T GOING TO BE HAPPY BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO BE DESPERATE, FILLED WITH VIOLENCE AND INDIGNATION. AND MAYBE IDENTITY POLITICS. A VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS START BASICALLY HUGE TREMORS WITHIN THE CULTURE ITSELF. EVENTUALLY, THE CULTURE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF CANNOT STAND. SOMEBODY'S GOING TO RUSH INTO THE VACUUM TO TAKE IT OVER, ULTIMATELY. THAT CAN BE TAKEN OVER FROM WITHIN, RIGHT? YOU HAVE A GROUP OF PEOPLE DO TRY TO MAKE THE CULTURE DISPARATE. BUT EVENTUALLY, THIS WOULD RESULT IN CIVIL WARS OR FACTIONALISM THAT IS SO TERRIBLE THAT THE CULTURE KIND OF SLIPS AWAY AND LOSES ITS ECONOMY AND SENSE OF GROUP VALUE AND RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER. THESE THINGS TEND TO BE REPLACED BY OTHER CULTURES. SOMETIMES IMMIGRANTS COME IN AND MAYBE IF THEY ARE HEALTHY IMMIGRANTS, THEY REPLACED IT. SOMETIMES IF THEY ARE UNHEALTHY IMMIGRANTS, THEY UNDERMINE IT AND YOU JUST BECOME A PLACE -- LIKE SOMALIA, IN CONSTANT TURMOIL, AND -- >> Doug: THE TRIBALISM, WHAT AMOUNTS TO BE GANGS. >> Father Spitzer: YES, VIOLENCE ALL THE TIME. >> Doug: IT USED TO BE THE GREAT STRENGTH OF THE UNITED STATES WAS WHEN IMMIGRANTS WOULD COME IN, THEY WOULD BRING THE BEST OF THEIR CULTURAL BACKGROUND, POURED INTO THE MIX OF WHAT WAS ALREADY THERE. EVERY TIME THIS WAVE HAPPENED, IT ULTIMATELY WAS STRENGTHENING THE COHESIVENESS OF THE COUNTRY, BUT IN THE GRAND MOSAIC, BUT WE'VE MOVED INTO -- IT'S NOT ALWAYS SO CLEAR. SOMETIMES WITH MOSAICS, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE ALL ONE THING FROM A DISTANCE BUT THE CLOSER YOU GET TO THEM, YOU REALIZE THEY'RE NOT REALLY TOTALLY CONNECTED TO ONE ANOTHER. >> Father Spitzer: THAT'S RIGHT. WHEN YOU ARE NOT CONNECTED, EVENTUALLY, IT'S GOING TO LEAD TO INTERNAL STRIFE. WHEN YOU HAVE INTERNAL STRIFE, THE FIRST AND THAT WILL HAPPEN IS YOUR ECONOMY WILL START FALLING APART. THE VIOLENCE LEVELS WILL BE INCREASING FROM WITHIN, AND THIS GOING TO ALLOW ENEMIES FROM WIT OUT, THEY WILL EVENTUALLY TAKE OVER THE CULTURE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. EITHER BY SUBVERTING FROM WITHIN OR WARLIKE MEANS, TAKING IT OVER FROM WITHOUT. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A STRONG COHESION INTERNALLY, IT GENERALLY WINDS UP -- THE USUAL SCENARIOS OF HISTORY. A BAD SCENE, THE END OF THAT SO-CALLED CIVILIZATION. >> Doug: IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE DOING A NEWS REPORT FROM CALIFORNIA. AND ELSEWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. WHERE DO YOU THINK WE FALL ON THAT CONTINUUM AT THIS POINT? >> Father Spitzer: RIGHT NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THE VIOLENCE THAT WE SEE GOING ON, SOME OF WHICH IS INTENTIONALLY INSTIGATED BY VARIOUS GROUPS, YOU KNOW MARX CERTAINLY HAD HIS METHODS FOR PRODUCING INTERNAL STRIFE WITHIN A COUNTRY AND VLADIMIR LENIN BROUGHT THOSE METHODS TO PERFECTION. HE DID TRY TO FOMENT REVOLUTION FROM WITHIN. AT THE DIFFICULTY IS THE REVOLUTION CAN OFTEN TIMES, AS WE HAVE SEEN IN RUSSIA, IT CAN UNDERMINE NOT ONLY THE ECONOMY BUT THE PREVIOUS CULTURAL VALUES. AND THEN WHAT IS LEFT IS BASICALLY SO MUCH ANARCHY AND LOSS OF A CENTRAL FOCUS THAT YOU ACTUALLY ASK A TOTALITARIAN REGIME TO RULE OVER YOU. LIKE A THORN PATCH. WE CAN GET ANY OTHER TREES, WHY DON'T YOU DO THE TRICK FOR US? THE IDEA IS THAT WE INVITE TOTALITARIANISM IN WHEN THERE IS NO CENTRAL FOCUS TO HOLD US TOGETHER. IF YOU LACK A STRONG CULTURE, YOU CAN EXPECT A TOTALITARIAN REGIME TO COME. I WOULD SAY ARMY IN THE PROCESS OF IT? YES, WE ARE. WE THINK WE ARE FREE, WE THINK NOTHING LIKE THAT COULD EVER HAPPEN, NO NAZI GERMANY, LENINIST RUSSIA, MAO'S CHINA, BUT YOU WILL, YOU SAY IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN HERE. YOU SUPPLANT THAT WEAKNESS FROM WITHIN, IT'S GOING TO BE EXTERNAL CONSTRAINT IN THE EASIEST EXTERNAL CONSTRAINT IS A VERY, VERY STRONG GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITY THEY CAN USE THE THINGS FROM OUTSIDE INWARD INSTEAD OF -- AS THE CULTURE DOES IT -- FROM THE INSIDE OUT. >> Doug: THAT'S WHY THE FAMILY IS SO IMPORTANT AND WHY IT BEING ATTACKED IS SO DETRIMENTAL. TO SOCIETY. >> Father Spitzer: LIKE I SAID, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE UNWITTINGLY WEAKENING THE CULTURE AND BECOMING DECADENT AND UNWILLINGLY ABANDONING CULTURAL VALUES. ET CETERA, ET CETERA. BUT THE CHAOS THAT RESULTS, WE ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT BY EXTERNAL CONSTRAINTS. IN A COME FROM EITHER OUR COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT OR ANOTHER COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT BUT THAT'S NORMALLY WHAT HAPPENS. WE'VE SEEN IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, SO OFTEN IN HISTORY. PLEASE DON'T TELL ME WE CAN'T FALL PRAY TO THIS. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO INSTIGATE INSTABILITIES. BUT ABOVE ALL, INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE CULTURE ITSELF. IT BELONGS TO A MARXIST REVOLUTIONARY TACTIC. GET THEM TO ABANDON EVERYTHING. AND YOU KNOW WHAT HITLER SAID, AND GOEBBELS, THE GREAT PROPAGANDA ARTIST OF THE NAZI REGIME, THE FIRST THING HE SAID WAS CHANGE THE HISTORY OF GERMANY, THE GERMAN PEOPLE. OH, IF THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, IF THEY BECOME SO DECADENT, ANYBODY CAN BE A HERO, SO LONG AS THEY GET A SENSE OF BELONGING BY WORSHIPING HIM TIGHT HERO AND ANYBODY CAN BE A VILLAIN SO LONG AS PEOPLE HAVE A SENSE OF BELONGING BY GANGING UP AGAINST THAT VILLAIN. YES, OF COURSE, WE HAVE NO INTERNAL MORAL COMPASS. YOU HAVE NO COLLECTIVE CULTURAL MORAL COMPASS, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOMEBODY IS GOING TO FILL THAT VACUUM. THEY WILL TELL YOU WHO THE HEROES AND VILLAINS ARE. AND THEY WILL DO IT BY EXTERNAL CONSTRAINT. IF IT IS NOT OUR OWN GOVERNMENT THAT DOES IT, SOMEBODY ELSE'S GOVERNMENT WILL. BECAUSE WEAKNESS SOCIOLOGICAL AND CULTURAL VALUES -- >> Doug: THAT'S WHERE THE ARYAN RACE AND MYTHOLOGY WAS USED TO UNDERMINE CHRISTIANITY. >> Father Spitzer: THEY NEEDED THOSE MYTHS, THOSE TORCHLIGHT PARADES, IT WAS ALL DESIGNED TO TAKE THE PLACE OF A WEEK MORAL COLLECTIVE COMPASS AND IT FILLED THE VACUUM SO QUICKLY, THIS UNPOPULAR CHANCELLOR HAS ALL THIS DICTATORIAL AUTHORITY BUT ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE SO HAPPY TO WORSHIP PRACTICALLY THE FUHRER. IN THE SO-CALLED CIVILIZATION OF NAZI GERMANY. >> Doug: WHEN PEOPLE THINK IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN HERE, THEY ALWAYS SAY THE TIME THAT YOU THINK YOU ARE LEAST SUSCEPTIBLE TO SIN IS WHEN YOU ARE THE MOST SUSCEPTIBLE. >> Father Spitzer: [LAUGHS] THAT'S RIGHT. IF YOU THINK "I'VE COME ALL THE WAY, I HAVE OVERCOME SIN," WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT. YOU ARE BLIND TO THE REALITY OF YOURSELF. [LAUGHS] >> Doug: LET'S MOVE ON TO SOME QUESTIONS. WE'VE BEEN STACKING THEM UP HER HERE. HE RESPONDED THE EUCHARIST WAS JUST A PIECE OF BREAD A FRIEND AND I WERE DISCUSSING THE EUCHARIST. I EXPLAINED THAT IF A PERSON RECEIVED THE REAL PRESENCE WORTHILY, OVER TIME THE GRACES FROM THE SACRAMENT WOULD LEAD THAT PERSON CLOSER TO CHRIST AND A MORE VIRTUOUS LIFE. HE RESPONDED THAT THE EUCHARIST WAS JUST A PIECE OF BREAD THAT HAD A PLACEBO EFFECT. IF YOU COULD CONVINCE A PERSON THAT A CHEESEBURGER WAS THE REAL PRESENCE THEN THE CHEESEBURGER WOULD HAVE THE SAME EFFECT. YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS? >> Father Spitzer: FROM A PSYCHOLOGICAL POINT OF VIEW, THE PLACEBO EFFECT WILL HAVE AN EFFECT OVER THE SHORT TERM BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLACEBO EFFECT OVER THE LONG TERM, IT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY SUSTAINING VALUE. SO BASICALLY IF YOU ARE PSYCHING YOURSELF UP INTO DOING SOMETHING AND YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE EUCHARIST IS DOING THIS FOR YOU, IT MIGHT WORK FOR THE SHORT TERM. IT WILL DEFINITELY NOT WORK FOR THE LONG-TERM. WHY? BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PSYCHIC ENERGY TO TRY TO PERPETUATE THAT PLACEBO EFFECT ON AN ONGOING BASIS. IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BECOME NATURAL TO YOU. YOU CAN'T BE WISHING IT INTO EXISTENCE ALL THE TIME. IT TAKES WAY TOO MUCH PSYCHIC ENERGY TO DO THAT. EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW THAT IF IT WAS REALLY A PLACEBO EFFECT, BASICALLY OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, WE ARE GOING TO GO RIGHT BACK TO WHO YOU WERE. BUT IF IT'S VERY MUCH A REAL TRANSFORMATION, THEN IT REALLY DOES HAVE A LONG-TERM TRANSFORMATIVE EFFECT THAT CAN'T BE EXPLAINED. I AM THERE THANKS TO THE GRACE OF GOD. A PLACEBO EFFECT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT WORK BUT PLACEBOS ARE DEFINITELY SHORT-TERM -- YOU CAN'T MAKE NATURE CHANGED TO WISHFUL THINKING OVER THE LONG-TERM. >> Doug: A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT THAT IN THIS WORLD. HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, WHEN I LOOK AT THE ORDER AND PERFECTION OF THE UNIVERSE, I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT GOD EXISTS AND THAT HE CREATED THE UNIVERSE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE STARS, MOON, THE SUN AND ALL OF THE PLANETS I AM IN TOTAL AWE OF GOD. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS ORDER COULD HAVE OCCURRED BY CHANCE. ISN'T THIS ORDER OF THE UNIVERSE ENOUGH TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD THE FATHER? THIS IS FROM ANTHONY. >> Father Spitzer: ANTHONY, THE WORD "PROVE," IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT STRICTLY SPEAKING, PROOF, LIKE A IS B, NO, IT REALLY DOESN'T. FIRST OF ALL, THAT IS AN INDUCTIVE INFERENCE. IT'S REALLY NOT REALLY INDUCTIVE INFERENCE, IT'S AN INDUCTIVE INFERENCE FILLED WITH AWE AND WONDER AT THE BEAUTY OF ALL OF THESE THINGS. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO CREATE WHAT I WOULD CALL AN INDUCTIVE PROOF OR ABDUCTIVE PROOF, YOU CAN DO THAT BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE RECOURSE TO PHYSICAL LAWS, YOU CAN'T LOOK OUT THERE AND THINK WOW, THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. HIGHLY UNUSUAL ORDER, THEREFORE GOD EXISTS. PEOPLE WOULD NOT CALL THAT A PROOF BUT YOU CAN MAKE AN INDUCTIVE OR ABDUCTIVE PROOF BY FIRST OF ALL DEFINING WHAT THE THREE PARAMETERS ARE IN THE UNIVERSE AND WHAT WE CALL "PARAMETER SPACE," FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT LOW ENTROPY FOR OUR UNIVERSE, REMEMBER, IT'S VERY NECESSARY TO HAVE A CARBON-BASED, SPACIOUS UNIVERSE LIKE OUR OWN IN WHICH WE CAN DEVELOP WITH RELATIVE FREEDOM, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. YOU LOOK AT THAT AND SAY WELL, HOW MUCH AGAINST THE ODDS IS THAT LOW ENTROPY? WITH THE BIG BANG? A FAMOUS WELL-KNOWN PHYSICIST IN THE WORLD TODAY CALCULATED CALCULATED 10 RAISED TO THE 10, RAISED AGAIN TO THE 123 AGAINST. A SO-CALLED LOW ENTROPY. IT'S NOT A HARD CALCULATION TO MAKE IT ALL. ONCE YOU HAVE THE NUMBER OF BARYONS IN THE UNIVERSE, 10 TO THE 80, AND THEN YOU TAKE THE ENTROPY FOR BARYON, MULTIPLY IT TOGETHER, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE EXPONENTIAL IN ORDER TO GET THE ODDS AGAINST, YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU GO OH, MY GOSH, LOW ENTROPY NEEDED FOR CARBON-BASED LIFE FORMS TO OCCUR IN OUR UNIVERSE? WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT IS THAT LIKE? THAT IS THE SAME ODDS AS A MONKEY TYPING THE ENTIRE CORPUS OF SHAKESPEARE BY RANDOM TAPPING OF THE KEYS IN A SINGLE TRIBE. YOU COULDN'T DO THAT IN A BILLION YEARS. YOU WOULD GET A PAIR A GRAM OF SHAKESPEARE IN A SINGLE TRIBE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THAT'S HOW MUCH AGAINST THE ODDS IS. IF YOU ARE GETTING THAT POINT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY OKAY, NOW I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE VARIOUS OPTIONS. THE FIRST THING, GET MATHEMATICALLY -- THIS IS THE COINCIDENCE. THE LOW ENTROPY WE HAVE. THE ODDS AGAINST THIS HAPPENING ARE MONKEY TYPING SHAKESPEARE IN A SINGLE TRY. NEXT THING WE HAVE TO DO IS TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT POSSIBILITIES THERE ARE TO EXPLAIN THIS. WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE THE NATURAL CAUSES FIRST. IT IS A MULTI-VERSE GOING TO EXPLAIN IT? I HAVE A WHOLE ARTICLE ON THIS, SEVERAL ARTICLES ON THIS BUT YOU CAN READ BUT IF YOU GO TO THE McMILLAN REFERENCE LIBRARY, IT'S CALLED "THEISM AND ATHEISM: OPPOSING ARGUMENTS IN PHILOSOPHY." YOU CAN GET IT PROBABLY IN ANY LIBRARY. IT'S EDITED BY GRAHAM OPIE, I WROTE THE ARTICLE ALONG WITH A PHYSICIST, JAMES SINCLAIR, CALLED "FINE-TUNING AND INDICATION TRANSCENDENCE OF INTELLIGENCE." I GO THROUGH WHY WON'T A MULTI-VERSE DO IT? WHY WON'T AN INTERNAL INFLATIONARY MULTI-VERSE DO IT? THERE IS A LOT OF CONTRADICTIONS. THAT'S THE REASON WHY. IN A NUTSHELL. WHY WON'T A CYCLIC UNIVERSE DO IT? WHY WON'T EVEN A STATIC UNIVERSE DO IT? YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT THE INFINITE UNIVERSE WILL BE D WITH INTRINSIC CONTRADICTIONS THROUGH EMPIRICAL DATA. IT'LL ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE A BEGINNING. NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF -- EVERY TIME YOU GO BACK IN TIME, YOU CAN SEE YOUR ENTROPY LEVELS IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET LOWER AND LOWER AND LOWER WITH EACH PREVIOUS CYCLE BECAUSE ENTROPY GETS HIGHER AND HIGHER AND HIGHER WITH EACH CYCLE SO IF YOU GO INFINITELY BACKWARDS IN TIME WITH A BOUNCING UNIVERSE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE INFINITELY LITTLE ENTROPY, WHICH IS WHAT SEAN CARROLL CALLED "INFINITE FINE-TUNING WITHOUT ANY APPARENT REASON." INFINITELY ORDERED FOR NO APPARENT REASON. SO THE IDEA, "THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN ANY SCENARIO," BOUNCING UNIVERSE IS, THAT'S OUT OF THE QUESTION. THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE NEXT POSSIBILITY. BOUNCING UNIVERSES ON STEROIDS, LIKE MULTIPLE COSMOLOGIES OR SOMETHING OF THAT NAT PAIRED THE PROBLEM WITH THOSE COSMOLOGIES, YOU HAVE TO GO BEYOND INFINITY. THAT'S ONE THING. BEYOND INFINITY. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR JUST ONE SECOND. THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BUNCH OF STUPIDITY TO ME BECAUSE INFINITY HAS NO LIMIT TO GO BEYOND, HELLO! THAT'S A CONTRADICTION RIGHT THERE. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY OBJECTIVE TIME IN PHYSICS WITH THE TIME THAT IS MEASURED ON CLOCKS. IT COULD ALSO BE VIBRATORY ACTIVITY OF PARTICLES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OF COURSE THE MEASUREMENT OF TIME IS NOT THE SAME AS TIME, THIS EXTENSIVE CONTINUUM THAT ALLOWS EVENTS TO BE SEPARATED. THAT IS NOT REDUCIBLE TO SIMPLY THE ROTATION OF THE CLOCK. OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. OR A PARTICLE. >> Doug: IT SEEMED LIKE SUCH A SIMPLE QUESTION. >> Father Spitzer: [LAUGHS] YOU CAN MAKE A VERY FORMAL ARGUMENT. GO TO THAT McMILLAN VOLUME. >> Doug: WE'VE GOT TWO EMAILS. "I THOUGHT THERE WAS NO MATH IN THIS SHOW" AND THE SECOND WAS "WILL THERE BE HANDOUTS?" >> Father Spitzer: [LAUGHS] I COULD GIVE A POWERPOINT. WOULD YOU LIKE A POWERPOINT? SEND US A NOTE. >> Doug: WE'VE GOT 2 MINUTES FOR THE BREAK. I DON'T KNOW IF WE GOT DOMINIC CAN GET THIS ONE STARTED, YOU OFTEN USE THE THEORY OF FREE WILL AS AN EXPLANATION FOR EVIL AND SATAN. WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE FOR SUCH A THING AS FREE WILL? THE EXPERIMENTS OF BENJAMIN AT THE VERY LEAST SHOW HOW PROBLEMATIC FREE WILL IS. ALEX. >> Father Spitzer: ALEX, I GOT TO TELL YOU I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH BENJAMIN, BUT YOU CANNOT SHOW BY EXPERIMENT THAT THERE IS NO FREE WILL. THE ONLY THING YOU CAN SHOW WITH EXPERIMENT OBVIOUSLY HER PHYSICAL PROCESSES THAT MIGHT OCCUR IN THE BRAIN. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FREE WILL AT ALL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TRANSCENDENT SOUL THAT WILL GET YOU OUT OF THE STIMULUS RESPONSE OF PHYSICAL PROCESSES, CLASSICAL PHYSICAL PROCESSES WHICH ARE UNDERGOING THEIR NORMAL FUNCTIONING. THE FIRST THING, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SOUL, YOU CAN SKIP FREE WILL. IF SOME GUY TELLS YOU HEY, I JUST SHOWED THAT EVERY TIME YOU HAVE AN EMOTION OR DECISION OR SOMETHING, THERE IS A FIRING RIGHT THERE IN YOUR BRAIN. THE POINT OF PHYSICAL PROCESS BUT THAT IS NOT DISALLOW A TRANS-PHYSICAL PROCESS. IT DOES NOT DISPROVE THERE IS A THAT PROCESS, BECAUSE THERE IS A TRANS-PHYSICAL PROCESS. I HAVE A NEW BOOK COMING OUT, PROBABLY AT THE END OF THIS -- NOT THIS YEAR, AROUND THE END OF NEXT YEAR, "SCIENCE OF THE DOORSTEP -- "SCIENCE AT THE DOORSTEP OF GOD." I'VE TALKED ABOUT NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES FROM NONPRODUCTION ON PHYSICAL PROCESSES, SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS, A BILLION OTHER THINGS, TALKED ABOUT IT, THERE'S TONS OF EVIDENCE FOR A SOUL FROM REALLY GOOD STUDIES AND THE PHILOSOPHIES OF MIND, PHYSICS, AND MEDICAL STUDIES, IF YOU HAVE SUCH A SOUL, WHAT IS THE FIRST CHARACTERISTIC OF THAT SOUL? SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS. I AM AWARE OF BEING AWARE OF MYSELF. ONCE YOU HAVE THAT, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN INTERNAL UNIVERSE. ONCE THAT HAPPENS, YOU CAN ASK -- YOU ALSO HAVE WHAT IS CALLED AN IRREDUCIBLE RATIONAL PROCESS THAT HAS THESE HEURISTIC NOTIONS. I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO IT. YOU'VE CONCEPTUAL IDEAS AND ITS RATIONALITY PLUS YOU SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS. THESE ARE TWO POWERS OF THE SOUL, NOT PHYSICAL PROCESSES IN THE BRAIN. IF YOU'VE GOT THOSE TWO POWERS, YOU CAN BY SIMPLY ASKING A QUESTION THROUGH THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL PROCESS -- THE ENTIRE STIMULUS RESPONSE SYSTEM TO THE NATURAL WORLD, THROW IT IN AND THE MINUTE YOU SAY WITH YOUR SOUL AND YOUR SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS, WHICH IS TRANS-PHYSICAL AND APART FROM NATURE, YOU SAY OKAY, IS IT BETTER FOR ME TO FOLLOW GOD OR TO FOLLOW MY EGO? OKAY, IS IT BETTER FOR ME TO FOLLOW THE GOOD I PERCEIVE MY CONSCIENCE AND THE GOOD OF RELIGION I FIND FROM GOD RATHER THAN FOLLOWING MY NEAR SENSUAL URGES AND EGOCENTRIC DESIRES? THE MINUTE YOU ASK THAT QUESTION AND UNDERSTAND THAT QUESTION AND YOUR CONCEPTUAL INTELLIGENCE WITH RESPECT TO YOURSELF, REFLECTIVITY, YOU ARE OUT OF THE STIMULUS RESPONSE PROCESS OF PHYSICS. ONCE THAT HAPPENS, NOW YOU CAN MAKE AN OBJECTIVE DECISION. YOU CAN TURN TO YOUR CONSCIENCE. ANOTHER TRANS-PHYSICAL DIMENSION OF THE SOUL. OR YOU CAN TURN TO YOUR RELIGIOUS SENSIBILITIES. OR YOU CAN TURN TO YOUR TRANSCENDENTAL DESIRES FOR PERFECT TRUTH, LOVE, GOODNESS, BEAUTY. YOU CAN TAKE THOSE TRANSCENDENTAL DESIRES AND NOW LOOK AT THOSE TRANS-PHYSICAL THINGS THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF THROUGH YOUR TRANS-PHYSICAL SOUL OR YOU CAN LOOK AT ALL THOSE SENSUAL THINGS YOU DESIRE OR EGOCENTRIC THINGS YOU DESIRE AND YOU CAN JUXTAPOSE THEM TO ONE THING AND GO "I THINK I'M GOING TO CHOOSE GOD AND CONSCIENCE, FOR PERFECT GOODNESS AND TRUTH." RATHER THAN CHOOSING YOUR CENTRAL DESIRES AND EGO. THE HIGHER THINGS THAT YOU DESIRE, YOU ARE FREE, TOTALLY FREE. I WILL OBVIOUSLY REFUTE ANYBODY WHO DOES THIS IF THEY WILL SIMPLY ADMIT THE EXISTENCE OF A SOUL. IF THEY DON'T ADMIT, THEY ARE IGNORANT ABOUT THEMSELVES AND THEY DON'T LOOK AT THE DATA FROM NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE, CONSCIOUSNESS STUDIES, ET CETERA. ALL I CAN SAY IS -- >> Doug: IT'S NOT MY CHOICE, FATHER, UNFORTUNATELY AT THIS POINT. IF IT WAS UP TO ME, I WOULD NOT TAKE A BREAK. BUT WE'VE GOT TO TAKE A BREAK. MUCH MORE AHEAD WITH FATHER SPITZER WHEN WE COME BACK IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." WHERE ELSE WOULD WE BE? [THEME MUSIC] [THEME MUSIC] >> Doug: WE ARE BACK HERE AS WE CONTINUE OUR JOURNEY THROUGH "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." DON'T FORGET, WE'VE GOT A BOOK AVAILABLE CALLED "ADVENT REFLECTIONS," PERFECT FOR PEOPLE GOING THROUGHOUT THE LAND, IT'S ON EWTNRC.COM. AND ALSO FATHER SPITZER'S BOOK, "CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES." FOR THE HOLY REMINDERS, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HOLY REMINDERS OUT THERE THANKS TO MOTHER ANGELICA. LET'S GET BACK TO FATHER SPITZER. A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH IN THE MEDIA THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS ABOUT THE LARGE HADRON COLLIDER. WASN'T IT SUPPOSED TO PROVE THAT THERE ARE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF UNIVERSES, AND, AS A RESULT, THE FINE-TUNING OF OUR UNIVERSE ISN'T NECESSARY, AND NEITHER IS GOD? WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATUS OF THAT EXPERIMENT? THIS IS FROM PETE. >> Father Spitzer: HEY, PETE. THE HADRON COLLIDER -- YOU PROBABLY DON'T CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THE TOPIC BUT I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT, THE PURPOSE OF THE COLLIDER, TO BE QUITE FRANK WITH YOU, YOU CANNOT PROVE OTHER UNIVERSES BY MEANS OF USING A PHYSICAL EXPERIMENT. AT THE WHOLE POINT OF THE MULTI-VERSE AND THE VEXING PROBLEM OF THE MULTI-VERSE IS IT ELUDES ALL POSSIBLE VERIFICATION. IF SOMEBODY IS THINKING THEY'RE GOING TO PROVE THE MANY HYPOTHESES OF EVERETT, IT'S NOT EVEN POSSIBLE. AND CERTAINLY YOU AREN'T GOING TO PROVE AN INFLATIONARY MULTI-VERSE BY A COLLIDER, LOOKING FOR PARTICLE PHYSICS, AND CERTAINLY NOT LOOKING FOR UNIVERSES BEYOND OUR UNIVERSE. FIRST OF ALL, LET'S KEEP OUR PERSPECTIVE STRAIGHT ABOUT WHAT THE HADRON COLLIDER CAN DO. THE SECOND THING TO LOOK AT IS THE INFINITE UNIVERSE HYPOTHESES, THE SO-CALLED MULTI-VERSE, THERE ARE HUGE PROBLEMS WITH THIS FROM THE GET-GO. THE PROBLEM WITH THAT I'VE READ MANY WORLDS HYPOTHESIS IS THAT ANYTIME THERE IS A DECISION, A "YES" OR "NO" IN PHYSICAL PROCESSES, YOU HAVE TO CREATE A BRAND-NEW UNIVERSE FOR THE GUESTS AND A SEPARATE UNIVERSE FOR THE NO, SEPARATED FROM EACH OTHER. AND THEN OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE ONE CONSCIOUS, CONTINUITY OF CONSCIOUSNESS FOR THE OBSERVER. THAT'S HOW WE EXPERIENCE OURSELVES HAVING CONTINUITY OF CONSCIOUSNESS. 50% OF THE TIME, WE DO NOT HAVE COMPLETE DISJUNCTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS FROM OUR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE. ONE COULD SAY WE ARE CONSCIOUS OF GETTING THE PRIZE, NOT GETTING THE PRIZE. CONTINUITY OF CONSCIOUSNESS WILL NEVER TAKE PLACE IN 50% OF THE UNIVERSE AND IT WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE OTHER 50% OF THE UNIVERSE. BUT YOU ARE SPLIT. AS IT WERE, YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER FATHER SPITZER HERE, AND THEN A FATHER SPITZER B, IT'S A VERY DREADFUL MULTIPLICATION OF SPITZERS. BUT YOUR CONTINUITY OF CONSCIOUSNESS, WHAT YOU WERE THINKING, WILL NOT BE CONTINUOUS IF YOU ARE IN THE SO-CALLED "NO" OPTION UNIVERSE. THERE'S A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN THIS MANY-WORLDS HYPOTHESIS. THE ORCHESTRATED OBJECTIVE REDUCTION HAS A RESPONSE TO THIS BUT IT'S THE SOLUTION TO THE EVERETT PROBLEM. IT'S NOT CREATING ANOTHER UNIVERSE, WHICH HAS CAUSED SOME NEW PROBLEMS NOT ONLY IN RESPECT OF CONSCIOUSNESS BUT TO CREATE PROBLEMS, YOU ARE BRINGING EXCESS BAGGAGE TO COSMIC EXTREMES. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. AND THEN THERE'S A REAL PROBLEM WITH HAVING AN INFINITE NUMBER OF INFLATIONARY MULTI-VERSES. I WON'T EXPLAIN IT TO YOU TODAY BUT ALSO STEPHEN HAWKING IN HIS FINAL PAPER THAT HE WROTE, I THINK IT WAS IN 2016 OR WHATEVER IT WAS, IN GENERAL HIGH-ENERGY PHYSICS, THAT PAPER SHOWS WE PROBABLY DID NOT EMERGE FROM AN INTERNAL FRACTAL-LIKE FORMATION. IT'S TWO DISTINCT TO BE PRODUCED BY THAT PROCESS IN THE PREVIOUS INFLATIONARY PERIOD. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DEFINITELY UNDERMINED THAT POSSIBILITY TOO. THERE IS A THING, YOU UNDERMINE THAT VERY THEORY, WHICH YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT KIND OF A MULTI-VERSE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE INFLATIONARY -- THE INFINITE INFLATIONARY -- >> Doug: A LOT OF THE AUDIENCE AND MYSELF MIGHT HAVE IT HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING WHAT REGULAR INFLATIONARY THINGS ARE -- >> Father Spitzer: THE FINE-TUNING OF OUR UNIVERSE, I HAVE A VARIETY OF ARTICLES ON THAT WHICH YOU CAN JUST LOOK UP. >> Doug: ONE LAST QUICK QUESTION BEFORE WE GET TO THE BOOK. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I HAVE A "WOKE" JEWISH FRIEND WHO INSISTS THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT IS JEWISH. SHE SAID USE BY CATHOLICS OR OTHER CHRISTIANS IS AN EXAMPLE OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION AND WE NEED TO STICK TO OUR NEW TESTAMENT. KIM. >> Father Spitzer: [LAUGHS] WELL, I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THIS. REMEMBER, FIRST AND FOREMOST, JESUS WITH THE LIGHT WAS JEWISH! HE HAD THE RIGHT TO INTERPRET THE OLD TESTAMENT. JESUS WAS JEWISH! THE EARLY WRITERS, INCLUDING THE NEW TESTAMENT, THEY WERE ALSO PEOPLE WHO WERE INTERPRETERS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND WERE JEWISH AND HAD THE RIGHT TO DO THAT. BASICALLY YOU CAN SAY THERE'S A CONTINUITY BETWEEN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT IS MOVING THROUGH AND THE EARLY RABBIS THAT CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY CERTAINLY FELT THAT WAS A POSSIBILITY AS WELL. OF COURSE WE ARE NOT JUST GOING TO STAY AWAY FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT, WHICH IS PART OF WHO JESUS IS, PART OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, WHAT WE CALL THE EARLY NEW TESTAMENT, EARLY CONTEXT. ALL OF THOSE THINGS. WE ARE NOT JUST GOING TO SIMPLY RIP THEM OUT OF US. IT'S PART OF US AS MUCH AS IT'S PART OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE. JESUS AND THE EARLY APOSTLES AND ALL OF THOSE CHURCH MEMBERS WERE PART OF THAT PEOPLE. SO, YEAH, THERE IS EVERY REASON TO SAY THAT NO, WE CAN ALSO INTERPRET THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE WAY THAT JESUS INTERPRETED IT. IT JESUS SAID HE BROUGHT IT TO FULFILLMENT. IF HE'S BRINGING THE LAW TO THE OLD TESTAMENT, OF COURSE WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO UTILIZE IT AND LOOK AT IT. WE BELIEVE THE OLD TESTAMENT IS NOT SUFFICIENT IN ITSELF, IT WAS BROUGHT TO FRUITION AND FULFILLMENT BY THE NEW TESTAMENT AND JUSTIFIABLY SO. WITH JESUS' VIEW OF LOVE REALLY DOES BRING IT TO FRUITION. HIS GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT REALLY DOES BRING INTO FRUITION. JESUS EXPLAINS HIMSELF. YOU CANNOT PUT NEW WINE INTO OLD WINE CANS. YOU CAN'T DO IT THROUGH THE CATEGORIES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. INSTEAD, YOU WILL HAVE TO USE -- YOU WILL HAVE TO USE JESUS' CATEGORIES TO LOOK AT THE OLD TESTAMENT BUT YOU CAN'T LOOK AT THE OLD TESTAMENT TO INTERPRET JESUS' WORDS BECAUSE IT'S CONSTANTLY OPENING OUT. THERE'S A GREATER AND GREATER REVELATION. BASICALLY MEANING YOU CAN ONLY GO IN ONE DIRECTION, YOU CAN GO IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. IF YOU TRY TO FIT THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT MESSAGE INTO THE CATEGORIES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, IT WILL SHATTER THE BASIN THAT YOU PUT IT IN. LIKE PUTTING WINE INTO THE OLD WINESKINS. WE DO HAVE A RIGHT TO USE THEM BUT WE WILL NEVER CONSIDER THE OLD TESTAMENT TO BE DEFINITIVE. IT MUST BE SEEN IN THE LIGHT OF JESUS CHRIST. >> Doug: OVER THE YEARS, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME DIFFERENT SECTS AT JUST THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAT'S A HERESY, BASICALLY. WE NEED TO HAVE THAT CONTINUUM FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT TO THE NEW TESTAMENT, RIGHT? >> Father Spitzer: THAT'S RIGHT. YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE THE CONTINUITY. JESUS INTENDED THE CONTINUITY. HE INTENDED TO BRING IT ALL TO FRUITION. HE DOES SUPERSEDE THINGS THAT ARE CENTERED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. OBVIOUSLY YOU SEEM OLD TESTAMENT THAT YOU HAVE A SACRIFICE OF HUMAN BEINGS. THE BOOK OF JUDGES WERE THE ONE JUDGE SAYS GOSH, LORD, I'M SO HAPPY ABOUT THE VICTORY YOU GAVE ME. I WILL SACRIFICE THE NEXT PERSON THAT COMES IN. AND IT WAS MY DAUGHTER. SORRY TO DO THIS TO YOU, DEAR, HE BASICALLY SACRIFICED HER. WOULD JESUS SAY THAT'S A GOOD THING? NO. HE WOULD BASICALLY SAY DON'T DO THAT. AND SOLOMON HAD MANY WIVES. HE SUPERSEDED THE IDEA OF POLYGAMY. HE SAID WE ARE GOING TO GO WITH THE IDEA OF ONE WIFE ONLY. SO JESUS DOES SUPERSEDE MUCH OF WHAT'S IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. THANK GOD FOR THAT. INDEED, THE OLD TESTAMENT ITSELF DEVELOPS OVER THE COURSE OF TIME. IT DOES NOT STAY THE SAME. IT'S A VIBRANT, VIBRANT BODY OF WORK WHICH IS CONSTANTLY DEVELOPING FROM THE TIME OF THE PATRIARCHAL PERIOD WITH ABRAHAM, ET CETERA, ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE MOSAIC. MARK, THE LAW OF THE TORAH, AND THEN FINALLY TO THE PROPHETS, MAJOR PROPHETS. AND THEN THE TIME OF JESUS HIMSELF, IT IS OF COURSE THE TIME OF THE FINALITY OF REVELATION AND THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF GOD AND THE FOUNDING OF A UNIVERSAL CHURCH. WHICH IS NOT IN ANY ONE LOCALE BUT IS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE JESUS HAS MADE HIMSELF A SUBSTRATE, AS IT WERE. THE MYSTICAL BODY FOR EVERYBODY IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IN ONE LARGE -- WHAT WE MIGHT CALL OVERARCHING KINGDOM/CHURCH. >> Doug: LET'S JUMP OVER TO "THE DEVIL IS REAL." CHAPTER 3 OF YOUR BOOK, "I'M SURE MANY MEMBERS OF THE PSYCHIATRIC PROFESSION IN MANY OF MY ACADEMIC COLLEAGUES BELIEVE THAT PERSONIFIED EVIL IS A MEDIEVAL SUPERSTITION WITH THE STUFF OF FOLK, SPOKE STORIES. YOU SAY NOT ONLY PSYCHOLOGY BUT YOU TALK ABOUT ACADEMICS. DO YOU STILL DEAL WITH THAT? >> Father Spitzer: OH, YEAH, I RUN INTO PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. THAT SAY OH, YOU KNOW, THE SPIRIT ISN'T REAL. HE SAID WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD I PREFER? THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF GHOST STORIES THAT HAVE BEEN TOLD BY YOUR PLAIN, ORDINARY CITIZEN WHO IS PRETTY HONEST, OR AM I GOING TO BELIEVE A COUPLE OF ACADEMICS WHO HAVE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE OF ANYTHING WHO HAVE PONTIFICATED AN IDEA THAT THEY DON'T EXIST. OF COURSE I'M GOING WITH THE ORDINARY GUY. [LAUGHS] I MEAN, THERE'S A REASON THERE'S TENS AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE -- THAT HAVE BEEN AWARE OF GHOSTS. THERE ARE TONS OF REASONS THERE'VE BEEN THESE EXPERIENCES OF PARENT NATURAL PHENOMENON, ET CETERA. MAYBE THERE GOES. I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GHOSTS MYSELF BUT WENDY OF REASONS TO BELIEVE IN ANGELS CAN BE BOTH GOOD AND BAD. YOU ARE INTERPRETING YOUR FAITH AND SOAP YET BUT THE EXPERIENCES THEY ARE. I'M VERY SURE, BOTH MYSELF AND SCIENTIFIC-ORIENTED PEOPLE SIMILARLY BELIEVE THEY'RE GOOD SPIRITS, EVIL SPIRITS, GHOSTS AND SO FORTH. THE REASON THEY DO IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE EXPERIENCES THAT THEY BELIEVED TO BE PARA-NATURAL. ONCE YOU SEE SOMETHING FLYING THROUGH THE AIR WITHOUT ANY PHYSICAL FORCE, IT STARTS TO MAKE YOU WONDER. THAT IS WHY I DESCRIBED THE EXORCISMS AND VARIOUS PHYSICAL EVENTS THAT WERE GOING ON IN THE EXORCISM ACCOUNTS TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF OH, YEAH, THESE PHENOMENA, THEY HAPPEN. IF YOU THINK THERE'S GOT TO BE A NATURAL EXPLANATION FOR THIS, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO COME UP WITH IT. IT JUSTIFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. THE EXORCIST BRINGS IN A RELIC OF SOME SORT, IT FLIES OUT OF HIS HAND WITHOUT EVER BEING LAUNCHED. IT'S FLYING RIGHT THROUGH THE WINDOW WITHOUT ANYBODY EVER TOUCHING IT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. WHAT IS THIS, A NEW EXPLANATION FOR GRAVITY OR ANTIGRAVITY THAT SUDDENLY OCCURRED IN THIS ROOM WHERE AN EXORCISM WAS SUPPOSEDLY OCCURRING? YOU GET THE POINT. YOU HAVE TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS 15 TIMES IN ORDER TO TRY TO GET SOME NATURAL EXPLANATION TO THE PARA-NATURAL. IT'S MORE REASONABLE TO SAY YEAH, AND EVIL SPIRIT DID IT. >> Doug: IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND PARANORMAL? >> Father Spitzer: THAT THE MORE POPULAR WORD TODAY, IT USED TO BE CALLED PARANATURAL AND THEN YOU HAVE THESE PARANORMAL FOLKS THAT ARE TRYING TO USE CERTAIN KINDS OF EQUIPMENT TO TRY AND DISSEMINATE, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME VOCAL QUALITIES THAT CAN'T BE DISCERNED. LIKE IS IT A VOICE OR SOMETHING? OR THEY CAN FEEL ELECTROMAGNETIC IMPULSE. THAT IS CERTAINLY THE CASE. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. YOU CAN SEE THERE IS SOME ELECTROMAGNETIC INFLUENCES THAT CAN'T BE EXPLAINED BY ANY PHYSICAL FORCE THAT ARE PRESENT IN RESPONSE TO VARIOUS STIMULI. LET'S SAY SOMEBODY ASKING A QUESTION, ET CETERA. CERTAINLY, OF COURSE, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF WAYS OF LOOKING AT THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED, FORCES THAT ARE BEING MANIFESTED, THAT HAVE NO EXPLANATION. YOU KNOW, IN THE FIRST EXORCISM OF ROBBIE MANHEIM, BEHIND THE BOOK CALLED "THE EXORCIST," FROM THE DIARY OF THE PRIEST WHO CONDUCTED THE EXORCISM, YOU'VE BOOKSHELVES MOVING ACROSS, ROBBIE IS LEVITATING OFF THE BED, THEY TRY TO PUT THEM UNDER THE BED IN THE HOLE THAT IS GOING UP IN THE AIR WITH ROBBIE UNDERNEATH. GIVE ME A BREAK. THAT'S GOING TO BE EXPLAINED BY SOME NATURAL PHENOMENON THAT WE JUST DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT. I GET TIRED OF HEARING THESE THINGS BUT I THINK THE ACCOUNTS OF THESE PHENOMENA ARE VERY RELIABLE. LET'S FACE IT. IN THE CASE OF ROBBIE MANHEIM, YOU HAD SIX JESUITS THERE WHO WERE EITHER HEADS OF ACADEMIC DEPARTMENTS OR INVOLVED IN UNIVERSITY ENTERPRISE IN ONE RESPECT OR ANOTHER. THEY ARE NOT EXACTLY ALL OUT OF THEIR MINDS DEVIL-HUNTING. MOST HAD NOT EVEN DONE AN EXORCISM. THEY HAD A LOOK UP THE RITE THAT THEY LEARNED IN THEOLOGY. LET'S FACE THE FACTS. THIS PHENOMENA IS VERY REAL INDEED. THERE'S THE NATURAL SKEPTICISM ABOUT IT. >> Doug: OKAY, YOU TALK ABOUT PROVIDING EVIDENCE IN THIS AREA. YOU SAY I PRESENT THIS EVIDENCE NOT TO SCARE PEOPLE OR ENGAGE IN A COUNTER ACADEMIC POLEMIC BUT RATHER TO INFORM PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE REALLY UP AGAINST IN THIS WORLD. TO UNDERSTAND PAIR UP AGAINST? >> Father Spitzer: EXACTLY. THE MAIN POINT IS, THERE'S A MALICIOUS INTENTIONALITY ON A SCALE THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO IMAGINE. BUT CALL THAT AN ANGELIC DEMON. BUT NOT IN THE GOOD SENSE OF ANGELIC. A DEMON THAT WAS AT ONE TIME AN ANGEL. THE POINT OF MAKING IS THE MALICIOUS INTENTION IS HARD TO IMAGINE UNTIL YOU SEE IT IN ACTION. THIS HAPPENS. THERE ARE POSSESSIONS, EXORCISMS, THESE POSSESSIONS REALLY GET YOU TO THINKING ABOUT THE DEGREE OF MEL MALICIOUS INTENTION AND THE POWER OF EVIL THAT CAN BE BROUGHT TO BEAR ON SOMEBODY THAT REALLY ACCEPTS IT INTO THEMSELVES. IN THE CASE OF ROBBIE MANHEIM, PEOPLE SAY WELL, HE DIDN'T FREELY ACCEPT THE EVIL INTO HIMSELF. HE UNWITTINGLY DID IT BUT HE DIDN'T WANT TO OPEN HIMSELF UP, UP TO BUT WOULD CALL UP PARANATURAL OR A CUT -- I THOUGHT IT WAS A GHOSTLY INFLUENCE, IT TURNED OUT TO BE A DEMONIC INFLUENCE. HIS AUNT WAS A SPIRITUALIST ENTRY TIME HOW TO USE THE OUIJA BOARD, AND WHEN SHE DIED UNEXPECTEDLY, ROBBIE BEING AN INTROVERTED CHILD WANTED HER BACK AND TRIED TO COMMUNITY WITH HER WITH THE OUIJA BOARD. OF COURSE IT'S MOVING AROUND, RIGHT? SPELLING OUT YEAH, I AM YOUR AUNT, WHOEVER SHE WAS. I AM YOUR AUNT SO-AND-SO. I'M TELLING YOU IT'S GREAT OVER HERE IN THE AFTERLIFE. I WILL BE YOUR FRIEND. IT WAS NOT HIS AUNT. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY A DEMONIC SPIRIT AND CERTAINLY AS HE GOT MORE DEEPLY AND DEEPLY INTO THIS AND HE DID GET POSSESSED. LUCKILY HE IS STILL ALIVE TODAY. HE DOES NOT REMEMBER IT AFTER THE EXORCISM. BOY, THE JESUITS WHO DID IT CERTAINLY REMEMBERED IT AND WHEN PEOPLE SAY I DON'T BELIEVE IN ST. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL, READ THAT PART OF THE DIARY WHERE IT'S ACTUALLY MICHAEL COMMANDING THE EVIL SPIRITS TO LEAVE ROBBIE AT THE END AND THESE TESTAMENTS ARE ALL ALMOST DAZZLED BY THE FACT AND WHEN THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED AND THE EVIL SPIRIT JUST BLASTED OUT AND WENT ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN TO ST. LOUIS TO THE COLLEGE CHURCH. AND TO THE PLACES WHERE IT HAD VISITED PREVIOUSLY. ALL THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN THE CHURCH, THERE WAS THIS HUGE THUNDERCLAP WHEN ROBBIE WAS RELEASED. IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING DIARY, STILL AVAILABLE. THERE IS THIS GUY, THOMAS ALLEN, WHO WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT, CALLED "POSSESSED." THE SECOND EXORCISM, WHICH STARTS BASICALLY IN ST. LOUIS AT THE HOUSE OF ROBBIE'S RELATIVES THERE. AND IT GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH. >> Doug: WE JUST SCRATCHED THE SURFACE OF "THE DEVIL IS REAL," WE'VE GOT A LOT AHEAD WHEN WE GET BACK TOGETHER NEXT WEEK. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE US YOUR BLESSING OUT THE DOOR, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> Father Spitzer: BOW YOUR HEADS AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. THE LORD OF ALL COMPASSION, MERCY, AND LOVE BLESS YOU, MAY IT PROTECT YOU FROM EVERY DIMENSION OF EVIL AS YOU INVOKE THE NAME OF JESUS AND OUR BLESSED MOTHER AS YOU BRING HER INTO YOUR LIFE, ASK FOR THE HELP OF THE ANGELS AND SAINTS, MAY ALMIGHTY GOD BLESS YOU IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: THANK YOU SO MUCH, FATHER SPITZER. BE WELL. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. DON'T FORGET ALL THOSE WONDERFUL BOOKS AND VIDEOS OF FATHER SPITZER, AVAILABLE IN OUR EWTN CATALOGUE. WE CONTINUE WITH "THE DEVIL IS REAL," IT CERTAINLY IS. AND A LITTLE-KNOWN AUTHOR I AM SPEAKING TO ON BOOKMARK THIS WEEK, "ESCAPE FROM EVIL'S DARKNESS, THE LIGHT OF CHRIST IN THE CHURCH, SPIRITUAL CONVERSION AND MORAL CONVERSION." ONE FR ROBERT SPITZER. HE IS SURPRISINGLY GOOD. WE HAVE A NEW ORIGINAL DOCUMENTARY DRAMA. AT 5:00 P.M. EASTERN, ALSO AVAILABLE SOON ON EWTN ON-DEMAND, OUR CATALOGUE FOR A SMALL FEE. THIS IS DOUG KECK AND THIS IS "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. [THEME MUSIC]
