[MUSIC] >> Doug: WELCOME TO FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE AT THE BUSY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON, WHERE WE GET TOGETHER AND MEET EACH WEEK. I'M DOUG KECK YOUR HOST. OF COURSE YOUR QUESTIONS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THIS PROGRAM. YOU CAN EMAIL US WITH THOSE AND COMMENTS AS WELL THROUGH FACEBOOK AND ALSO TWITTER. AND THERE'S ALSO THE MAGIS CENTER WEBSITE FOR ALL THINGS FATHER SPITZER AS WELL AS crediblecatholic.com WHERE YOU CAN LEARN QUITE A BIT. OUR SHOW TOPIC CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES BASED ON THE BOOK OF THE STRUGGLE AGAINST GOOD AND EVIL AND THE BOOK IS AVAILABLE THROUGH OUR EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG AS ARE MANY OF HIS OTHER BOOKS AND WONDERFUL DVDS AND PROGRAMS HE DID FOR EWTN. WE ARE VERY LUCKY. AND WE HAVE A NEW BOOK AND IT'S HOLY HOUR WITH THE ONE AND ONLY MOTHER ANGELICA, OF COURSE FEATURING TALKS THAT SHE GAVE DURING HOLY HOURS IN THE LATE 1980s AND HAVE NOT BEEN SEEN ON AIR IN PROBABLY ALMOST 30 YEARS BUT YOU GET TO EXPERIENCE THOSE THROUGH THIS LATEST BOOK PUBLISHED BY EWTN PUBLISHING, PROUDLY www.ewtnRC.com FOR THAT BOOK. WE TURN NOW TO DR. SPIRITS AS WE HAVE MOVED PAST EASTER. HOW ARE YOU FATHER? GREAT TO SEE YOU? >> Father: GREAT TOO SEE YOU TWO IN THE IMAGE OF MY MIND. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> WELL, THANK YOU FOR FATHER. IF YOU WANT TO KICK THINGS OFF WITH A PRAYER THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> Fr. Spitzer: IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT AMEN. HOLY FATHER IN THE EASTER SEASON WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR THE RESURRECTION YOU PROMISE, THROUGH THE CHURCH, THROUGH THE LIVES THAT WE LIVE, AND WE ASK THAT WE MIGHT FOLLOW YOUR SON'S LIGHT INTO THE FULLNESS OF THAT RESURRECTION BY ALL THAT WE DO AND SAY. WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON DOUG, MYSELF, OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE, THIS DAY SO THAT EVERYTHING WE DO AND SAY WILL BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, YOUR CHURCH AND YOUR KINGDOM, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, AMEN. >> AND MARY SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> AMEN. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU FATHER SPITZER. GOOD TO SEE YOU. HOPE YOU HAD A NICE EASTER. HOW DID YOU ACTUALLY SPEND IT? >> I WENT TO MY SISTER'S HOUSE. AND OF COURSE SHE'S THE HOSTESS WITH THE MOSTEST AND WE FEASTED ON HOT CROSS BUNS AND EGGS BENEDICT AND WELL, OF COURSE, HARD BOILED EGGS. >> SO WHAT IS IT -- TURKEY OR HAM WHAT IS THE TRADITIONAL THING? YOUR FAMILY? >> HAM. DEFINITELY HAM. SPIRAL, VIRGINIA CUTLER-HAMMER. >> VERY GOOD. OKAY. SO LET'S GET INTO A TOPIC THAT I KNOW YOUR SO MUCH DATA-DRIVEN AND SO MANY THINGS THAT YOU INVOLVE YOURSELF WITH. A NEW REPORT, CHURCH MEMBERSHIP AMONG CATHOLICS DECLINED NEARLY 20 PERCENT SINCE 2000. A NEW STUDY CAME OUT. AMONG RESPONDENT WHOSE SAID THEY WERE CATHOLIC, ONLY 58 PERCENT SAID THEY WERE A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH. THE FIGURE IS DOWN 18 POINTS FROM THE 76 PERCENT WHO SAID THEY WERE A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH IN A PREVIOUS GALLOP POLL BETWEEN 1998 AND 2000. WHICH MEANS IN THE PAST DECADE CATHOLICS SAW TWICE A STEEP OF DECLINE AS DID PROTESTANTS AND THIS REPORT IS BASED ON 6100 U.S. ADULTS BETWEEN 2018 AND 2020. AND THE FIGURE IS THE LOWEST SINCE GALLUP BEGAN A SURVEY IN 1947, WHICH MEANS 47 PERCENT, A RECORD LOW WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES GOING TO CHURCH. 73 PERCENT IDENTIFIED WITH A CHURCH OR A HOUSE OF WORSHIP BACK IN 1937. AND A COUPLE OF FINAL THINGS. WHILE 66 PERCENT OF TRADITIONALISTS BORN BETWEEN ' '46, BASICALLY DEALING WITH THE WORLD WAR II GENERATION, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE BABY BOOMERS, 58 PERCENT SAY THEY'RE MEMBERS OF A CHURCH. ONLY 36 PERCENT OF MILLENNIALS SAY THEY'RE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH AND THEY ALSO NOTE THAT THE CHURCH MEMBERSHIP DECLINED MORE STEEPLY AMONG DEMOCRATS AND RESIDENTS ALONG THE EASTERN SEABOARD WHICH IS ALSO A BIG IMPACT ON CATHOLICS AS WELL. AND, OF COURSE, WHAT IS NOT MENTIONED IN HERE IS KIND OF THE NUNS AND I DON'T MEAN THE NUNS THAT WE LOVE AT THE SHRINE BUT HANSVILLE AND MOTHER ANGELICA BUT YOUNG PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS HAVING NO RELATIONSHIP TO A CHURCH AT ALL, THE "NONES." >> THAT'S NOT SURPRISING BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. IT'S VERY TROUBLING. THE PEW SURVEY HAS MEASURED IT OVER THE COURSE OF SEVERAL YEARS. BUT BASICALLY THEY PREDICTED AND SAID WE WOULD LOSE ABOUT 43 PERCENT OF OUR CATHOLIC MULTIPLE -- AS YOU PUT IT NOT TO ANOTHER CHURCH BUT TO NONRELIGIOUS AFFILIATION, "NONES" AS THEY CALL IT, NO RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION WHATSOEVER. SO THIS IS NOT SURPRISING IN ANY RESPECT. I CAN TELL YOU PRETTY MUCH WHAT THE CAUSES ARE. WE STILL DO NOT HAVE AN EFFECTIVE APOLOGETIC TO HELP THE MILLENNIALS SEE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN FAITH AND SCIENCE. I THINK THAT'S, NOW BEING REMEDIED, BUT OF COURSE THE MAGIS CENTER IS TRYING OUR VERY BEST TO GET THIS CURRICULUM INTO AS MANY SCHOOLS MIDDLE SCHOOLS AS WE CAN AND THAT'S BEING DONE MORE AND MORE. THE USCCB IS REALLY HELPING US RIGHT NOW TO GET THE FAITH AND SCIENCE MATERIAL INTO THE TEXTBOOKS THAT ARE BEING TAUGHT AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT INTO THE FAITH FOR NATION PROGRAMS AS WELL BECAUSE SO MANY KIDS DO NOT GO TO CATHOLIC SCHOOLS AND THE ONES WHO ARE LEAVING, MANY OF THEM JUST GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THEY JUST HAVE NO SENSE OF THE EVIDENCE FOR GOD, THE EVIDENCE FOR JESUS, THE EVIDENCE FOR TRANCE FISCAL SOUL THAT, YOU KNOW, REALLY DOES CORRELATE WITH THE PREACHING THE JESUS SO REMARKABLY. WE REALLY DO HAVE TO DO MORE, AND WE ARE TRYING TO DO MORE, CERTAINLY I AM AT THE MAGIS CENTER. BUT THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM. THE USE SURVEY HAS BEEN MEASURING IT. THEY SAID IT FOR YEARS. IF YOU DON'T GIVE THE KIDS ANY EVIDENCE THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE. AND LO AND BEHOLD, THEY'RE LEAVING. AND WE STILL DO NOT DO IT AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE NOT JUST REVAMPING OUR CURRICULA OVERNIGHT. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY HAVE SOLUTIONS, BUT THEY REALLY DON'T, YOU KNOW, HAVE ANYTHING THAT -- I THINK THAT ISTELL AND SCIENTIFIC THAT REALLY HELPS THE KIDS. THERE'S SO MUCH EVIDENCE FOR GOD, JESUS, THE SOUL, ET CETERA, THAT HAS A SCIENCE BASE AND IT HAS SCIENTIFIC VALIDATION. WHY WE'RE NOT USING THESE THREE CONTEMPORARY SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES THAT JAW DROPPED THE KIDS I TALKED TO, WHY WE'RE NOT USING IT ON A MASSIVE SCALE BUT WE USE SIMILAR PEDAGOGY. THAT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. I SEE IT WITH THE ADULT POPULATION SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD WAR II OR THE BABY BOOMERS LIKE MYSELF, SCANDALS HAD MORE TO DO WITH THEIR, YOU KNOW, LACK OF PARTICIPATES THAN PROBABLY, I THINK, MATTERS OF EVIDENCE, THOUGH MATTERS OF EVIDENCE ALSO EFFECT THEM AND THERE'S ALSO THE PROBLEM OF JUST PLAIN SLOTH TO BE HONEST. SOMEHOW WE NEED TO INSPIRE PEOPLE AT OUR LITURGIES. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO TO PEND OVER EXPWKDZ DO THEATRICS TO DO THIS BUT I DO THINK WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, BRING THAT IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY OF CHRIST INTO PEOPLE'S LIVES IN A VERY, VERY CONVINCING WAY THROUGH NOT JUST PREACHING BUT THROUGH THE HOLINESS OF THE WAY WE OFFER AND CELEBRATE MASS. I THINK THESE ARE THINGS THAT REALLY NEED TO BE DONE, AND I THINK THEY WOULD HELP IMMENSELY, THE USCCB, I KNOW, IS REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A MASSIVE TOASTER GET THESE THINGS DONE. I JUST WAS ON A PHONE CALL WITH BISHOP PLEASANT ANS AND SEVERAL OTHER RAIN MAKERS AROUND THE CATHOLIC WORLD OF APOLOGETICS AND, OF COURSE, EWTN IS SO INVOLVED IN THE CENTER OF IT ALL, REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND I SO HE HOW MUCH EFFORT IS BEING EXERTED BY REAL PEOPLE OUT THERE TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE EVERY DAY. AND I THINK THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO SUCCEED. I DO THINK THEY HAVE TO GET SOME TRACTION, AND WE HAVE TO DO IT MUCH MORE URGENTLY AND CONCERTEDLY. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. WE HAVE TO GET TO OUR TEACHERS AND WE HAVE TO GET TO OUR CAT ASSISTS AND SOMETIMES WE JUST DON'T. EVERYBODY SEES THE PROBLEM BUT THE TEACHERS AND THE CAT CONSISTS ARE NOT GETTING THE TRAINING THEY NEED TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM NOT JUST WITH THE FAITH AND SCIENCE AND THE EVIDENCE THINGS. LIKE I SAID ALL OF THE MATERIAL IS THERE EVERYTHING YOU COULD NEED TO CONVINCE A KID IS THERE. WE JUST HAVE TO GET PEOPLE TO USE THE MATERIAL THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND THEN THE SCANDALS, WHAT CAN WE DO EXCEPT STAY ON THE SAME TRAJECTORY AND THE USCCB HAS DONE A VERY GOOD JOB TRYING TO REVERSE THE TIDE OF THE SCANDALS AND THEY REALLY HAVE -- THEY'VE ALMOST ELIMINATED THE PROBLEM. YES, THERE ARE STILL THOSE OUTSTANDING QUOTE/UNQUOTE EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED AND BUT THE INCIDENTS HAVE GONE DOWN ABOUT 94 PERCENT. SO IT'S JUST A REALLY SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN BUT YOU WOULDN'T READ ABOUT THAT IN THE PRESS. ARE YOU SO I THINK WE SUFFER FROM THAT AS WELL. AND I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THERE ARE ETIOLOGIES OUT THERE WHER YOU ABANDON THE MORAL TEACHING OF THE CHURCH, AND THEN IT JUST KIND OF BACKS UP AND BACKS UP AND BACKS UP SO THE MINUTE YOU SAY WELL, I'M NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THE CHUMP. I LOOKED AT THAT GALLUP POLL. WE HAD A STEADY DECLINE AND NOW THE ADULT POPULATION, 21 PERCENT REALLY LOOKS TO THE CHURCH FOR MORAL GUIDANCE. I MEAN THAT'S JUST -- AGAIN WE HAVE GOT A PEDAGOGICAL ISSUE WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT WILLING TO LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THESE ISSUES, IF YOU START LOOKING AT THE STUDIES AND THE STATISTICS, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TAKE ON -- HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE IS NOT JUST A LIFESTYLE OF CHOICE. IT HAS TERRIBLE DARK SIDE. LIKE I SAID. WHEN YOU GET A 7 TIMES -- 7 TIMES -- THAT'S 700 PERCENT, YOU KNOW, INCREASE IN CONTEMPLATION OF SUICIDE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT LIFESTYLE BY COMPARISON WITH THE GENERAL POPULATION -- HELLO? IS ANYBODY LISTENING OUT THERE? BUT NOBODY IS BRINGING UP THESE STATISTICS. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO DO IT FOR OUR YOUNG KIDS. IN FACT I'M WRITING A WHOLE NEW APPROACH TO MORAL THEOLOGY RIGHT NOW AND A WHOLE TEXTBOOK ON IT AND I'M TRYING TO MOVE THIS INTO AS MANY CIRCLES AS I K BECAUSE I THINK WE NEED TO JUST TELL PEOPLE IT'S NOT -- JESUS WAS JUST NOT IMPOSING -- THE CHURCH IS NOT IMPOSING A TEACHING ON THEM JUST TO -- SOME MORE RULES TO MUSCLE THEIR WAY INTO THEIR BEDROOMS AND INTO THEIR BUSINESSES. BUT, RATHER, THIS IS GOOD FOR THEM. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR THEM JUST FOR THEIR SALVATION. NO CERTAINLY THAT. BUT IT'S GOOD FOR THEM IN TERMS OF THEIR EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL -- >> LET ME ASK YOU THAT QUESTION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRIKES ME IS SOMEBODY HE AT LEAST IN MY MIND TODAY, EVEN IF PEOPLE SAY, FINE, FATHER, I BUY JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD, I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT AND I THINK THAT IS ALL GOOD, AND I THINK HE MEANS WELL FOR ME AND I APPRECIATE THAT BUT HE'S ALL LOVING AND ALL FORGIVING, SO, YOU KNOW, I'LL DO THE BEST I CAN AND I WILL TAKE WHAT I WANT AND I WILL LIVE IT OUT AND AT THE END OF THE DAY I WILL BE FORGIVEN IF THERE'S ANYTHING FOR ME TO BE FORGIVEN ON AND EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE. SO IF THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS, THEN WHY SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT GOING TO CHURCH OR THESE OTHER THINGS. IT'S LIKE SOMEBODY IS SAYING, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE HERE IS THE DIET THAT WOULD BE THE HEALTHIEST FOR ME BUT IF I'M GOING TO LIVE FOREVER ANYWAY AND I CAN EAT ANYTHING I FEEL LIKE EATING, WHY SHOULD I BOTHER FOLLOWING YOUR RULES? WHAT'S THE DOWNSIDE? IS THERE A DOWNSIDE? >> YEAH, THERE'S A HUGE DOWNSIDE. MAYBE I WILL DESCRIBE IT INTACTS FIRST AND THEN ACTUALLY GET UNDERNEATH IT WITH RESPECT TO THE NOTION OF LOVE THAT YOU ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT AND EVEN THAT SPIRITUAL COMBAT BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. SO LET'S LOOK STATISTICALLY FOR JUST A SECOND. HAPPENS TO A PERSON WHO STARTS WATCHING PORNOGRAPHY ON A REGULAR BASIS. THERE'S A VERY GOOD LONGITUDINAL STUDY DONE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA. ONE OF THE AREAS THEY MEASURED WAS RELIGIOUS PRACTICE. SO GOING TO A MASS OR A RELIGIOUS SERVICE OR PRAYING INDIVIDUALLY OR TURNING TO THE BIBLE FOR RELIGIOUS TEACHING. SO LET'S SUPPOSE YOU START PRACTICING PORNOGRAPHY. WHAT HAPPENS AS THE MORE YOU START GETTING ADDICTED TO THIS? YOUR RELIGIOUS PRACTICE GOES DOWN. AND AS A MATTER OF FACT ON THE WHOLE THE GENERAL POPULATION OF THOSE WHO HAVE ADDICTION -- NOT EVEN ADDICTION BUT JUST HABITS OF PORNOGRAPHY, THEIR RELIGIOUS PRACTICE SOMETIMES GOES BELOW ONE HALF OF THE GENERAL POPULATION SOMETIMES TO A THIRD OF THE GENERAL POPULATION, DEPENDING ON HOW, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH THEY'RE SUCKED INTO THIS KIND OF ADDICTION. BUT THE SECOND THING IS, YOU LOOK AT THE SAME THING, THE PEW SURVEY DID, A CORRELATION BETWEEN PRACTICING OF HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE OVER THE LONG-TERM AND THEN THE CORRELATION WITH RELIGIOUS PRACTICE. THE SAME THING HAPPENS. IT'S CUT IN HALF. AND YOU START LOOKING OKAY, AND YOU START THINKING TO YOURSELF, WHATEVER PRACTICE YOU WANT TO HAVE. YOU WANT TO HAVE COHABITATION? WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO RELIGION? IT'S DOWN, DOWN, DOWN. EVERY ONE OF THESE ISSUES SHOWS A CORRELATION. AND PEOPLE SAY THAT'S BECAUSE THEY FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE CHURCH'S TEACHING. NO. IT'S BECAUSE THE HABIT YOU'RE ENGAGING IN IS SO EGOCENTRIC AND SO COUNTER TO WHAT LOVE WAS MEANT TO BE. BUT THEY TAKE THAT POSITION AND SAY, SEE, SO, WHAT DO WE DO? THE ANSWER DOESN'T BECOME TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THE TRUTH. IT BECOMES TO SAY WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING IS OKAY. AND IF YOU TELL THEM IT'S OKAY, THEN THEY WON'T FEEL GUILTY AND THEN THEY WILL COME TO CHURCH. BUT THAT NEVER WORKS. >> BUT THE POINT IS YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM THE TRUTH. IT'S KILLING YOU. IT'S KILLING YOU SPIRITUALLY. IT'S KILLING YOU EMOTIONALLY. IT'S KILLING YOUR EMOTIONAL INTIMACY. IT'S KILLING YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS. IT'S KILLING YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD OBVIOUSLY. THIS IS KILLING YOU. SO THE POINT OF COURSE IS YOU OUGHT TO KNOW THIS BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE GETTING KILLED AND YOUR RELATIONSHIPS ARE GETTING KILLED AND YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE IS GETTING KILLED AND YOUR EMOTIONAL LIFE IS GETTING KILLED WHO IS IN THE CENTER OF IT. WHO IS BENEFITING FROM IT? YOUR SPIRITUAL ENEMY -- SATAN IS INSTIGATING IT, BENEFITING FROM IT, AND DRAGGING YOU BY THE NOSE, HOPING TO ADDICT YOU BY THE NARCISSISM, HOPING TO ADDICT YOU BY THE EGOCENTRICITY, HOPING TO ADDICT YOU BY A SHEER ADDICTION TO CENTRAL LEARN. AS HE'S PULLING YOU DOWN DEEPER YOU FIND IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO TURN OFF THE DESIRE AS HE KIND OF UPS T THE ANTE AND THE WHOLE THING IS TO PREVENT YOU FROM BREAKING FREE. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS COMING IN ON THE OTHER ANGLE AND TRYING -- AS SAINT IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA WOULD SAY, TRYING TO STING YOUR CONSCIOUS AND GET YOU TO REVERSE, TRYING TO PUT THOSE VOICES IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD SAYING YOU'RE KILLING YOURSELF, KILLING YOUR RELIGIOUS PRACTICE AND KILLING YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH ME AND WITH OTHERS. STOP IT. AND ASK THE VOICE IS KIND OF QUAKING AND YOU'RE FEELING THE SPIRITUAL EMPTINESS, ALIENATION AND PAIN AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE DULLING YOURSELVES. SO YOU'RE KIND OF CAUGHT BETWEEN THESE TWO WORMDZ. BUT EVENTUALLY, YOU WILL HAVE TO CHOOSE. AND IT GETS HARDER AND HARDER TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO TURN AROUND, GET OUT OF IT AND FLEE BACK TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND TO GO BA THE COMMENT OF RECONCILIATION AND GET YOUR LIFE BACK IN ORDER AGAIN WITH THE LORD. IT GETS HARDER AND HARDER TO DO THAT THE MORE YOU GO DOWN THE ROAD. SO WE HAVE TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. WE HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE THESE STATISTICS. THEY HAVE BEEN MEASURED NOT JUST BY CATHOLICS, I MEAN THESE ARE SECULAR INSTITUTIONS DOING THESE STATISTICAL ANALYSES. THE PEW SURVEY, THE GALLUP SURVEY, THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA. THIS IS HARDLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, YOU KNOW. ALL I CAN ASK IS PLEASE, PLEASE, YOU KNOW, IN MY BOOK, MY THIRD VOLUME OF THE TRILOGY WILL COME OUT PROBABLY AROUND JULY CALLED THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: A DEFENSE OF OTHER CONTROVERSIAL MORAL TEACHINGS. I HAVE ALL OF THESE SECULAR STATISTICAL STUDIES GIVEN IN THERE. THE LORD WAS TEACHING THESE THINGS. THE CHURCH FOLLOWING THE LORD AND HIS EXAMPLE OF LOVE AND WHAT CHASTE LOVE AND GOOD MARITAL EMOTIONALLY INTIMATE LOVE IS SUPPOSED TO CONSIST IN. AND FOLLOWING THAT THE CHURCH IS TEACHING THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST, THE TRUTH OF THE LOVE, THE AGAPE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE APPLIED TO COMMITTED RELATIONSHIPS. THEY TAUGHT IT -- AND NOW WE LOOK AT THE RESULTS. YOU BREAK WITH IT AND YOU BREAK WITH YOURSELF. YOU BREAK WITH YOUR EMOTIONAL LIFE. YOU BREAK WITH YOUR PSYCHE. YOU BREAK WITH YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS. YOU CULTIVATE A WHOLE NEW SET OF FRIENDS. WHO ARE WILL THEM NARCISSIST ICK AND PASSIONLESS AND THEN YOU CULTIVATE A NEW SET OF SPIRITUAL PRACTICES THEY WANT OF CHRIST OUR LORD WHO IS BASICALLY OUT THERE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE BLESSEDDED VIRGIN MARY TRYING TO RESCUE US AND PULLING BACK IN; RIGHT? THE WHOLE POINT IS, YOU'RE CULTIVATING SOMETHING DIFFERENT. YOU SURROUND YOURSELF WITH THESE KINDS OF LIES ABOUT WHAT REALLY FULFILLMENT IS, ABOUT WHAT REALIZE FREEDOM IS, AND BY THE TIME YOU ARE DONE, YOU ARE NOT ONLY ONE PERCENT OF WHAT YOU ONCE WERE IN TERMS OF YOURS SPIRITUAL SUBSTANCE, IN TERMS MUCH THE LOVE AND THE SACRAMENT AND SELF-SACRIFICE, IN TERMS OF THE EMOTIONAL INTIMACY AND THE PASSION AND CARE YOU HAD FOR OTHER PEOPLE, YOUR ONE PERCENT AND YOU THINK YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, ALMOST LIKE A GOD, BUT IN POINT OF FACT, YOU'RE IN THE VAPPEDNESS OF SATAN HIMSELF WHO HAS CONVINCED YOU SO MUCH OF THE LIE YOU BELIEVE THAT BLACK IS WHITE AND WHITE IS BLACK. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO BRING OUT THE TRUTH. I'M TELLING YOU, PLEASE READ THAT BOOK: THE MORAL WISDOM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, DEFENSE OF MORAL CONTROVERSIAL MORAL TEACHING. IF YOU DO IT YOU WILL BE -- I IT'S EYE OPENING AND SHOCKING. >> WE LIVE IN A WORLD, ALMOST SEMI DUALISTIC THE WAY A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK. AND SAY, LET'S SAY I BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SAY. I KNOW IF I LIVE THIS LIFESTYLE IT'S GOING TO DESTROY MY BODY, OBVIOUSLY I'M GOING TO -- AND MAYBE MY RELATIONSHIPS AND THAT'S A TERRIBLE THING BUT, MY SOUL IS STILL FINE AND ULTIMATELY, SINCE THIS IS A SHORT LIFE -- WHAT WAS THE LINE THEY USED TO SAY, LIVE FAST, DIE YOUNG AND LEAVE A GOOD LOOKING CORPSE, YOU DO THAT AND THEN YOU GO TO HEAVEN AND THEN EVERYTHING IS FINE. BUT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT EQUATION BUT DO WE TELL PEOPLE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT EQUATION? >> THE FIRST THING YOU CAN TELL THEM IS, IF YOU START FEELING PROFOUND EMPTINESS, ALIENATION, LONELINESS AND GUILTY AND YOU FEEL THIS SO PROFOUNDLY THAT YOU ALMOST HAVE THESE SUICIDAL INSTINCTS THAT ARE CREEPING UP ON YOU AT ALL TIMES, IF YOU BEGIN TO FEEL THAT VAPPED VOID, YOU KNOW, THE EYES OF EVIL THE HORROR OF THE GHOST STORY IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY AND YOU BEGIN TO SENSE THAT AT 2:00 AND 3:00 IN THE MORNING AS YOU WAKE UP IN THAT COLD SWEAT, IF THAT'S WHAT IS BEGINNING TO HAPPEN TO YOU, HERE IS A CLUE OF WHAT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWING YOURSELF TO LOOK AT. YOU'RE BECOMING SEPARATED FROM GOD. WHEN YOU BECOME SEPARATED FROM GOD, YOU BECOME SEPARATED FROM YOURSELF BECAUSE THOU HAS MADE US FOUR THYSELF AND OUR HEARTS ARE RESTLESS. WITHOUT GOOD WE ARE JUST LITTLE IF I GETS OF ALMOST NOTHING, LIKE C.S. LEWIS'S BUS RIDE FROM HELL TO HEAVEN AND THESE GUYS ARE WISPY THINGS OF SMOKE AND THEY CAN GO INTO A BLADE OF GRASS WHEN THEY GO BACK TO HELL. SO YOU'RE JUST 1 PERCENT OF NOTHING. AND THEN YOU START ENDURING THIS EMPTINESS AND ALIENATION AND LONELINESS AND GUILTY AND YOU KEEP GOING AND BELIEVING IN THE LIE. WHAT SHOULD YOU EXPECT. AND HERE IS WHAT I PROVE IN THE BOOK. YOU SHOULD EXPECT A TRIPLING OF DEPRESSION, YOU SHOULD EXPECT A TRIPLING OF SOCIETY, AND SUICIDE RATES THAT ARE QUADRUPLING AND, BY THE WAY, THESE THINGS ARE THE CASE. YOU SHOULD ALSO EXPECT TONS OF ANTISOCIAL AGUESS ASSIST TEE. YOU SHOULD EXPECT HUGE LAYERS AND LAYERS OF FAMILIAL TENSIONS AND A HUGE INCREASE IN PANIC ATTACKS AND A HUGE INCREASE IN SUBSTANCE ABUSE. THESE THINGS ARE PROVEABLE FACTS. THAT'S WHAT YOU WILL FIND BECAUSE YOU CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT GOD. YOU CAN'T LIVE SEPARATED FROM THE VERY SOURCE AND THE SUMMIT AND THE END -- THE OBJECTIVE OF YOUR BEING. HE HAS MADE YOU FOR HIMSELF. YOU CANNOT BE HAPPY. YOU CAN'T BE FULFILLED. YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR DIGNITY WITHOUT HIM. YOU KNOW, I'M SAYING THIS AND OF COURSE YOU FEEL IT WITHIN YOURSELF AS YOU BEGIN TO SEPARATE AND SEPARATE FROM THE MORAL TEACHING. BECAUSE SEPARATION FROM MORAL TEACHING MEANS SEPARATION FROM FAITH. AND SEPARATION FROM YOUR FAITH MEANS SEPARATION FROM YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND SEPARATION FROM GOD HIMSELF: THE KEY POINT THAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS IF YOU KEEP DOING THIS, YOU SHOULD EXPECT ALL OF THOSE MEASURABLE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE BY EVERYBODY FROM THE AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION TO THE PEW RESEARCH STORY GALLUP AND ALL OF THESE OTHER SECULAR ORGANIZATIONS THAT PRETTY MUCH TELL YOU THIS IS A REAL FORMULA, NOT JUST FOR, YOU KNOW, PHYSICAL SUICIDE OR SOMETHING BUT PSYCHOLOGICAL SUICIDE, ULTIMATELY THE SUICIDE OF MARRIAGE, AND ULTIMATELY THE SUICIDE OF CULTURE. AND WE'RE JUST -- WHAT SPIRIT COULD POSSIBLY HAVE THIS QUADRUPLE SUICIDE IN MIND? WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT. IT IS YOUR SPIRITUAL ENEMY SATAN. AND HE'S DOING IT REAL WELL. WE'RE BELIEVING THE LIE WE'RE -- WE'RE CHRISTIAN COALITIONING THE KOOL-AID AND JIM -- WE'RE DRINKING THE KOOL-AID AND JIM JONES IS LAUGHING AS PEOPLE ARE LAUGHING ALL AROUND HIM. IT'S A BLEAK PICTURE AND I SHOULDN'T BE SPEAKING ABOUT THAT THIS EASTER SEASON. BUT YOU ASKED ME THE QUESTION. THIS IS MY ANSWER. STOP BELIEVING THE LIE. RENOUNCE IT. GO BACK TO JESUS CHRIST. AND IF YOU ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE SEPARATED, YOU VOGT BACK TO THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION AND YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE CHURCH AND RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST. IT'S THE ONLY WAY OF STAYING ON THE ROAD. IT'S THE ONLY WAY OF STAYING SAFE. >> THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO DO IT. SO WE WILL CHANGE THE TONE SLIGHTLY HERE EASTER WEEK. >> THANK YOU FOR THE WAY YOU WORK TOGETHER AND THE WAY YOU COVER MATERIAL AND YOU INTERJECT LIGHT HUMOR AND MOMENTS THAT MAKE IT SO MUCH EASIER TO CARRY THE WEIGHT OF THAT MATERIAL. AS I WATCH I SEE IT IS A TRULY ATTRACTIVE TOUCH THE OF THAT CHRISTIAN JOY THAT WE WOULD ALL DO WELL TO SHOW IN OUR OWN SOCIAL INTERACTIVE LIVES. THIS IS FROM LAWRENCE. BUT WE APPRECIATE THE KIND WORDS. >> THE CHECK IS IN THE MAIL -- NO, HONESTLY WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. WE APPRECIATE IT IMMENSELY. NICE TO KNOW. >> NOW, LET'S GOAT MORE SERIOUS QUESTIONS. DEAR FR. SPITZER, ON A RECENT SHOW YOU WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A VERY INSIGHTFUL POINT ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FEAR AND HORROR. UNFORTUNATELY, THERE WAS A PROGRAM BREAK BEFORE YOU FINISHED YOUR POINT AND DID NOT RETURN TO IT AFTER THE BREAK. WHICH IS PROBABLY MY FAULT. CAN YOU EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT HORROR AS PROCEEDING FROM THE EVIL ONE? BETH IS. >> Fr. Spitzer: BETH, IN FACT I WAS JUST TOUCHING ON THAT JUST A SECOND AGO. YEAH, THERE'S TWO VERY DIFFERENT DESCRIPTIONS. LET'S GO BACK TO FEAR AGAIN. FEAR HAPPENS NORMALLY BECAUSE OF A NATURAL STIMULUS. SO THE CAR AS I MIGHT HAVE SAID OR SOMETHING IS CAREENING DOWN THE HILL AT YOU AT 80 MILES AN HOUR. YOU SEE IT. WHAT HAPPENS? YOUR HEART STARTS PUMPING. YOUR FACE BECOMES FLUSH RED. YOUR REACTIONS, RIGHT, ARE SUDDENLY CAPTIVATED AS THE ADRENALINE PULSE IS GOING THROUGH YOU. YOUR ALMOST -- YOUR REACTIONS, YOUR REFLEXES ARE HEIGHTENED AND YOUR FACE IS FLUSH. OKAY. LET'S CALL THAT FEAR. AND YOU KNOW, IT LEADS TO FIGHT OR FLIGHT. NOW, YOU'VE GOT ON THE OTHER HAND HORROR. AND HORROR DEFINITELY HAS A SPIRITUAL CAUSE. NOT A NATURAL CAUSE LIKE A CAR COMING AT YOU OR A GUY WITH A GUN LOADED OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. THE IDEA OF HORROR IS THAT WHEN YOU MAKE TOUCH WITH THIS VAP ID SPIRITUAL NATURE REMEMBER IT'S A SPIRIT DEVOID OF LOT. IT'S ALMOST LIKE THAT LOOK IN THE EYES WHERE THERE IS NOTHING IN THOSE EYES THAT SPEAK OF COMPASSION, OF WARMTH, OF ANYTHING. IT'S ALMOST AS IF THEY ARE COMPLETELY DARKENED VACUOUS, DESIRE TO SUCK YOU IN TO A KIND OF AN EVIL -- TO SUCK YOU INTO A LOVELESSNESS, TO SUCK YOU INTO A RELATIONLESSNESS. THAT'S WHAT YOU FEEL. AND THAT MAKES YOUR SKIN CRAWL. THAT'S WHAT MAKE YOU FEEL THAT SHUDDER OF HORROR. AND LIKE WHEN YOU HEAR A REAL GHOST STORY. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE SHUDDER COMES OVER YOU? YOUR FACE, INSTEAD OF TURNING RED GOES BLANCHE WHITE. SO IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S LIKE YOUR PULSE IS DECREASING INSTEAD OF INCREASING. AND ASK IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOUR HEART OR YOUR BODY I COULDN'T REMEMBER YOUR SOUL IS SHUTTING DOWN WITH MERELY CONTACTING THIS GHOST OR THIS SENSE OF A GHOST PRESENCE AND A GHOST STORY, ET CETERA, THAT WHEN YOU REALLY MAKE CONTACT WITH A SPIRITUAL LOVELESS FORCE YOU ARE IN THIS STATE OF HORROR, LIKE WATCHING "HALLOWEEN" OR SOMETHING, EPISODE 13 -- YOU WATCH IT AND COULD HAVE SEEN CONFUSED YOU BUT ANYWAY, THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS. >> THERE'S FRIDAY THE 13TH AND HALLOWEEN BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. >> IT'S VERY DIFFERENT. AND YOU FEEL THE ETERNITY OF IT. YOU FEEL THE LOVELESSNESS OF IT. AND YOU KNOW THE ONLY WAY I CAN PROTECT MYSELF FROM IT IS GOD. HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT. WITHIN MYSELF I COULD BE CAPTIVATED BY THE HORROR IN THE SENSE OF LOOKING AT A HORRIBLE GRUESOME SCENE. BUT YOU'RE CAPTIVATED NOT BY SOMETHING YOU LOVE THAT IS BEAUTIFUL BUT INSTEAD BY THE HORROR OF THE SPIRITUAL DEPRAVITY AND UGLINESS OF WHAT CONFRONTS YOU AND IT MAKES YOUR WHOLE BODY AND SOUL SHUT DOWN AS YOU JUST YOU -- YOUR PULSE BECOMES NEXT TO NOTHING. >> THAT HEART STOPPING MOMENT. >> INCREASE GOOD. WE WILL TAKE A BREAK. MUCH MORE AHEAD WITH FATHER SPITZER. WE WILL GET A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS IN AND THEN GET ON TO OUR TOPIC. STAY WITH US. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] << AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STAYING WITH US FOR PART TWO OF FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE. WE WILL TALK ABOUT CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. BACK WITH FATHER SPITZER AND WE WILL GET INTO A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT RELATE TO THE BOOK AND THEN TALK MORE ABOUT THE BOOK. DEAR FATHER SPITZER IN YOUR BOOK CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES YOU WRITE ABOUT CURSES. HOW WOULD A PERSON PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM HAVING A CURSE PUT ON THEM. GAYLE? >> Fr. Spitzer: WELL, GAYLE, THERE ARE TWO IMPORTANT WAYS. FIRST, GO TO CONFESSION REGULARLY. SECONDLY, GO TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN. THAT'S THE FIRST THING BECAUSE ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO PUT A CURSE ON YOU OR IN SOME SENSE BOTHER YOU WITH THE EVIL SPIRIT, YES, I DO ARE YOU JUST -- WHEN YOU GO TO THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION THERE'S A GRACE THERE. WHEN YOU GO TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST THERE'S THE PRESENCE OF CHRIST THERE WHICH IS REPULSIVE TO ANY EVIL SPIRIT. THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO HANG AROUND YOU. CAN THEY STILL PESTER YOU? OH, SURE. THEY CAN PESTER YOU. LOOK AT PADRE PIO. THE EVIL SPIRITS WERE CONSTANTLY PESTERING HIM. THE SPIRIT WOULD MAKE HIS BED RUMBLE AT NIGHT AND SO FORTH AND SO ON AND HE PAID NO ATTENTION TO IT AND HE SAID, YOU CAN'T TOUCH ME. YOU CAN'T GET TO MY INTERIOR. OF. I'M INVULNERABLE TO YOU AND THE SACRAMENT TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST IS WHAT MADE HIM SO. AND HE WAS A VIRTUOUS PERSON BUT THEY WERE PROTECTED BY THE SACRAMENTAL GRACE. FOR ME I HAVE MY TWO LITTLE PRAYERS I FIND HANDY, AND OF COURSE THE EVIL SPIRIT LOVES TO PES FUR ME AS WELL. AND THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT: AND I FEEL THAT QUAKE OF THAT EVIL OR THAT DEEP EMPTINESS. OKAY ONE OF HIS AGENTS IS NEARBY, AND I JUST SAY THIS JUST MEMORIZE THIS, IT'S AN IMPRESSION TORE COMMAND. BASICALLY YOU'RE COMMANDING THE SPIRIT TO MOVE AWAY AND SO YOU KNOW, THE OBJECTIVE IS, YOU KNOW, "WE GONE SATAN, IN THE NAME OF JESUS, WE GONE SATAN." THAT'S THE SHORT FORM. I USE "IN THE NAME OF JESUS MY LORD AND SAVIOR, BE GONE SATAN." AND I REPEAT THAT ABOUT 10 TONS. AND GONZO, THE EMPTINESS AND THE VOID, THE EMPTY FEELING IS GONZO RIGHT AWAY. SO I THINK THAT IS CERTAINLY A WAY OF PROTECTING YOURSELF. DO I THINK PEOPLE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO CURSE ME? ABSOLUTELY. I THINK PEOPLE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO CURSE ME: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT I'M SURE OF IT. BUT DOES THIS BOTHER ME? NOT IN THE LEAST. I JUST USE MY SAME OLD PRAYER IN THE NAME OF JESUS MY LORD AND STAVE I DON'T REMEMBER BE GONE UNTIL THAT GOES AWAY. AND ALSO I AM A FAN OF ST. MICHAEL AND ALSO USE MY LITTLE PRIOR TO ST. MICHAEL AND SAY ST. MICHAEL, THE ARCHANGEL HELP ME. AND THERE'S THE MORE LENGTHIER PRAYER, ST. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL DEFEND US IN BATTLE -- >> YEAH, BE OUR SAFEGUARD AGAINST THE SLINGS AND ARROWS -- JUST KIDDING. >> HAMLET MEETS ST. MICHAEL THERE? >> EXACTLY. >> YOU KNOW IT'S INTERESTING. I WAS GOING TO -- YOU SAID IMPRECATORY THERE. WE WENT THROUGH THAT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO ON THE SHOW. >> THERE ARE IMPRESSION TORE COMMANDS WHERE YOU CAN COMMAND SATAN TO STICK TO HIMSELF. >> MY FAVORITE I ALWAYS THINK OF, I THINK OF YOURS, WHEN YOURL ADVISER SAID WHO ARE YOU LISTENING TO? >> OH, YEAH, WHAT SPIRIT ARE YOU LISTENING TO. IT DOES BREAK YOU OUT IN SAYING WHAT AM I DOING HERE. HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I AM READING YOUR BOOK CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. GREAT. YOU IDENTIFY EIGHT INSTEAD OF SEVEN DEADLY SINCE. WHEN I GO TO THE CATECHISM THE WORD IS NOT INCLUDED MUCHLESS DEFINED. ARE WE TO TREAT IT AS A SUBSET OF PRIDE AS A WOMAN MAINTAINING HER LOOKS CONSIDERED VANITY OR IS THAT A DISTORTED PREOCCUPATION? I TRIED VARIOUS SEARCHES FOR AGING TATTOOS AND COSMETICS AND VANITY AND COULD NOT FIND ANY EXPLANATION. THIS IS FROM A VIEWER. >> OKAY, VIEWER. HERE IS THE BASIC ANSWER. YOU ARE CORRECT. AS I POINTED OUT AT THE BEGINNING OF CHAPTER 5 THERE, I REALLY WENT TO THE EARLY LIST OF THE DEADLY SINS. THIS IS BEFORE POPE GREGORY'S CONDENSING OF THEM INTO THE SEVEN. AND THEY DO ACTUAL BREAK OUT VANITY IN THE EARLY LIST OF THE DDEADLY SINS. THE REASON I DID IT IS BECAUSE DO I THINK THAT PRIDE TENDS TO BE MORE OR LESS POWER ORIENTED SO THERE'S A DESIRE TO DOMINATE ANOTHER PERSON OR A DESIRE TO BE GOD FOR ANOTHER PERSON, YOU KNOW, ALMOST -- I'M NOT SAYING TO THE EXTENT OF HITLER OR STALIN OR SOMETHING BUT OUR NATURAL EVERY DAY DESIRE TO DOMINATE OR BE IN THE CENTER OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S UNIVERSE OR TO BE, YOU KNOW, A PERSON THAT SAYD IN SOME SENSE OR TRY TO BE GOD FOR THAT PERSON, THAT'S WHERE PRIDE IS ORIENTED. WHEREAS VANITY IS LOOKING FOR RECOGNITION. I JUST WANT YOU TO LOVE ME. I JUST WANT YOU RECOGNIZE ME ANDS TEAM ME AND JUST -- AND HERE IS THE THING. I WANT YOU TO ACKNOWLEDGE ME AS COMPARATIVELY BETTER THAN OTHERS. I DON'T JUST WANT YOUR RECOGNITION. BUT I'D LIKE TO BE BETTER THAN DOUG -- JUST KIDDING -- >> THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY ACHIEVED. >> NOT AT ALL. NO. I THINK YOU HAVE A HIERARCHY MORE THAN ME. >> I DON'T THINK SO. >> BUT THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS, THERE'S THAT COMPARISON THAT IS REALLY ESSENTIAL TO THE WHOLE FORMULA. I HAVE NOT TO BE RECOGNIZED AS AT THE TOP WHEREAS EVERYBODY ELSE IS KIND OF LOWER THAN ME, AND I'M KIND OF WITH GOD IN THE CENTER AND YOU'RE KIND OF IN THE PERIPHERY WITH THE HOI POLLOI, SO THE IDEA WOULD BE, NO, THAT VANITY IS A DIFFERENT THING. AND I THINK C.S. LEWIS IN THE GREAT DIVORCE CAPTURES THE DISTINCTIONS VERY WELL BETWEEN THE TWO THINGS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE ARTIST, RIGHT, COMES UP AND HE GETS UP TO HEAVEN, AND HIS FRIEND IS TRYING TO CONVINCE HIM, HEY, STAY AROUND. AND HE GOES, WOW OVER HERE YOU NEVER EVEN HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHETHER YOUR ART IS BETTER THAN SOMEBODY ELSE'S ART OR YOUR SCHOOL OF ART IS WINNING IN THE MOVEMENT, YOU KNOW, IN THE ARREST PARTICULAR MUSIC AND ET CETERA AND ET CETERA BECAUSE, BOY, HERE YOU GET TO SEE THE REAL THING AND YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A PORTRAYAL. AND HE GOES WAIT A MINUTE HERE! DO YOU MEAN PAINTINGS DON'T MATTER? NOT REALLY BECAUSE THE REALITY IS SO BEAUTIFUL, I MEAN IT'S SO DEEP AND SO IM PEN CONTRIBUTABLE, PAINTINGS ARE RENDERED KIND OF USELESS AND, BY THE WAY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHO IS THE BETTER PAINTER. AND HE GOES WHAT? NOBODY IS GOING TO SEEK ME OUT? NOBODY IS GOING TO LOOK AT ME AS THE EXPERT? ET CETERA, ET CETERA. AND, OF COURSE, YOU GET THE POINT, THE POOR FELLOW JUST SAYS, WELL, I'M SO SORRY. IT SOUNDS LIKE PARADISE BUT I KNOW IT'S NOT. I'M GOING BACK DOWN TO HELL WHERE I CAN GET A LITTLE MORE RECOGNITION OVER HERE, YOU KNOW, THAN BEING IN HEAVEN WHERE I CAN REALLY BE HAPPY BECAUSE EVERYTHING REALLY IS BEAUTIFUL WITHOUT ME. THAT'S VANITY. THAT'S JUST VANITY PURE AND SIMPLE WHEREAS POWER IS HITLER UP THERE, I WOULD LIKE TO BE GOD FOR THE WORLD, I AM THE MESSIAH, TRUST ME ON THIS. AND SO ALL PRIDE IN MY VIEW GOES TO MESSIANISM AND I SEPARATED THEM OUT. >> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE RALPH MARTIN GAVE A TALKED AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT DO YOU DO IN YOUR PRAYER GROUP WHEN SOMEBODY COMES ALONG AND PLAYS THE GUITAR BETTER THAN YOU OR WHAT DO DO YOU IN YOUR PRAYER GROUP WHEN THEY PRAY BETTER EXTEMPORANEOUSLY BETTER THAN YOU DO OR WHATEVER THEY DO? ARE YOU OPEN TO THAT? ARE YOU WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT? OR YOU KNOW, DOES THAT BECOME A PROBLEM OR AN ISSUE FOR YOU? >> WELL, I HAVE TO LEAVE THE PRAYER GROUP MYSELF. JUST KIDDING. >> WE'RE NOT LETTING ANYBODY IN HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN HERE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S NOT UP TO MY STANDARDS! [LAUGHTER] >> SO LET'S TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK. INTRODUCTION TO PART 1, PAGE 43: YET WE MUST AND OURSELVES THE QUESTIONS IS THE COSMIC STRUGGLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL ONLY AN ARCHETYPAL MYTH WITHIN OUR UNCONSCIOUS PSYCHES OR DOES IT REPRESENT THE REALITY IN WHICH WE LIVE? ARE WE IMMERSED FROM A REALITY IMBUING THE WORLDLY REALITY ACCESSIBLE TO OUR SENSES? IS YOUR SENSE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE VIEW IT AS SOMETHING THAT IS JUT KIND OF ARCHETYPAL? >> Fr. Spitzer: YEAH, THEY THINK IT'S JUST IN THEIR MIND. THEY THINK SATAN IS NOT JUST A IF I GET OF THEIR IMAGINATION BUT IT COULD ALSO A SIGNIFICANT OF THEIR SUBCONSCIOUS, AND IT'S COMING FORWARD AND EQUATE IT AND THE BOOGIE MAN AND I TURN IT UPSIDE DOWN AND SAY MAYBE THE BOOGIE MAN IS ACTUAL REPRESENTING A REALITY THAT IS NOT JUST IN YOUR MIND BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE THIS WARNING, THIS FOREBODING, THAT EVIL IS REAL IN THE WORLD. AND SOMETIMES ARE A CHILD'S SENSE OF THE BOOGIE MAN IS A VERY REAL SENSE INDEED. MAYBE THAT COMES FROM WITHIN SUBCONSCIOUS THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT. BUT DOES IT ACTUALLY REPRESENT SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE REAL WORLD THAT IS ALMOST LIKE A WARNING TO THE CHILD? DON'T CONSORT WITH THIS SORT OF THING. THE CHILD AT FIRST IS SCARED BY, YOU KNOW, HIS FIGMENT OF HIS IMAGINATION, THE BOOGIE MAN, HIS PARENTS COME AND REASSURE HIM THAT THE BOOGIE MAN IS NOT REAL. AND IT'S HARD FOR HIM TO BELIEVE THAT. BASE IT IT SEEMS SO REAL AND THEN WHEN YOU GET IN REAL LIFE YOU MEET THE PEOPLE THAT YOU LOOK AT AND YOU GO OH, MY GOSH THIS PERSON REALLY WILLS THE DESTRUCTION OF SOMEBODY ELSE. YOU MEET THAT YAGO FIGURE, RIGHT, FROM SHAKESPEARE'S OTHELLO WHERE ALL OF A SUDDEN HERE IS A GUY WHO REALLY WANTS TO KILL EVERYONE HE ENVIES. AND HE DOES A GOOD JOB. HE HAS A GREAT BODY COUNT BY THE END OF THE PLAY. SO I MEAN HE IS AMAZING. AND IT GOES, WOW, DOES THAT NOT GIVE YOU THE SENSE OF HORROR THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT AND IT REALLY DOES. AND SO AGAIN, YOU SAY, THAT REMINDS ME OF THE BOOGIE MAN WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID. EXACTLY. ONE TIME I WAS IN A DEBATE WITH A GUY WHO REALLY WAS ON ASSISTED SUICIDE. AND HE WANTED TO SET UP A WHOLE BUNCH SELF LIBERATION CLINICS. AND HELP TO HELP PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES WITH ABJECT FREEDOM AND THESE THINGS. BEFORE THE DEBATE WAS GOING ON, I SHOOK HANDS BEFORE THE DEBATE TO -- YOU KNOW WITH THEM AND I JUST LIKE THAT. >> DID YOU REALLY? >> IT REALLY HAPPENED. AND I JUST THOUGHT, THAT SENSE OF HORROR AND I JUST -- IT'S NOT THAT I ALMOST JUMPED BACK BUT I -- IT WAS LIKE ALMOST A SHOCK AND I JUST THOUGHT, OKAY, ALL RIGHT, I HAVE FELT THIS BEFORE. THIS IS -- >> NOW YOU KNOW WHO YOU'RE DEALING WITH; RIGHT? >> EXACTLY WHO YOU'RE DEALING WITH. BUT YOU JUST CAN'T GET SCARED. YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT IS WITH YOU AND EVEN THOUGH YOUR OPPONENT LOOKS FEROCIOUS AND HE SCARES YOU AND HE'S HORRIBLE, THE SAME THING THOUGH -- HE'S GOT A SMILING FACE. >> THEY ALWAYS DO. >> HE ALWAYS APPEARS WITH A SMILING FACE, ALWAYS. AND VERY GENTLE AND LOVING, NICE SMILING FACE. BUT OF COURSE THE EVIL INTENTION CAN SOON BE FELT THAT UNDERLIES THE EXTERIOR BEAUTY OR GENTLENESS OR NICENESS. >> EXACTLY. >> YOU ALSO MAKE THE POINT, ARE THERE REALLY DARK FORCES, STATE TAN AND OTHER DEMONS ATTEMPTING TO AFFECT OUR IDENTITY AND DESTINY? DO THEY HOPE TO SEDUCE US TO TURN THE WORLD INTO A PLACE OF SELF IDOLATRY AND DESPAIR INSTEAD OF LOVE, COMMUNITY AND JOY AND WORSHIP OF THE TRUE GOD? THERE YOU REALLY DO PUT THE COSMIC STRUGGLE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US. THAT'S WHAT IS GOING ON EVERY DAY IN OUR LIVES NOW. >> EVERY SINGLE DAY. IT'S PUT OUT TO US. WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR, THE HE TURNS ON ANDREW AND PETER. THEY'RE -- I MEAN ANDREW AND PHILLIP AND THEY'RE FOLLOWING HIM CLOSELY. AND JESUS SAID, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? ARE YOU LOOKING FOR DOMINATION AND HATRED AND USING OTHER PEOPLE AND EGOCENTRICITY AND USING PEOPLE AS, YOU KNOW, THINGS TO AGRAN ADVERTISE YOURSELF FOR YOUR CENTRAL PLEASURE? OR ARE YOU LOOKING FOR COMPASSION AND FOR CARE AND FOR A BETTER WORLD FOR CONTRIBUTION FOR A WORSHIP OF THE TRUE GOD INSTEAD OF SELF WORSHIP AND SELF IDOLATRY? WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? AND PEOPLE SOMETIMES WILL ANSWER: WELL, I'M LOOKING FOR TH LATTER. I DON'T WANT YOU KNOW, JUST -- I WANT TO WORSHIP THE TRUE GOD. I'M INTERESTED IN TRUTH. AND REMEMBER THAT SCENE FROM THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE WHERE AL PACINO IS PLAYING THE DEVIL, AND HIS FIRST TALK TO -- I FORGOT WHO THE PROTAGONIST IS, AND ANYWAY HE IS TALKING TO HIM, AND HE SAYS, LISTEN, HE SAYS, I'M A FRIEND OF HUMANITY. I'M A FRIEND OF MANKIND. I'VE ALWAYS HELPED WHERE HELP WAS NEEDED. AND HE GOES ON, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR PROBLEMS AND YOUR PREGNANCIES AND YET YOU DON'T KNOW AND I STEPPED IN AND THEN WHEN YOU WERE WRESTLING WITH YOUR ALCOHOLISM, YOUR LITTLE ESSENTIALIST YOU, DID I NOT HELP YOU THROUGH IT? AND YOU'RE GOING THROUGH AND HE LOOK LIKE THE NICEST GUY IN THE WORLD. I TAKE CARE OF ALL OF YOUR PROBLEMS. BUT IT'S THE PROBLEMS HE CAUSED THOUGHT ABOUT AFTER, THEN HE HELPS YOU OUT AND HE BOOKS THE HERO, THE NICE GUY, BECAUSE OF COURSE YOU SEPARATEDDED YOURSELF FROM GOD. BUT IN THE END HE CALLS YOU TO YOUR FACE, YOU PUTRID LITTLE IDIOT. AND THEN YOU GET THE TRUE VOICE -- NOT THE VOICE OF THE SHEPHERD BUT THE VOICE OF HAD THE EVIL SPIRIT. AND SO THE POINT AT HAND IS -- JUST LISTEN TO THE VOICE ENOUGH TIMES DISPUL BEGIN TO HEAR THE HATRED AND THE DOMINATION AND THE -- AND OF COURSE THE MOVEMENT OF YOU TOWARD YOURSELF DESTRUCTION. AS YOU BEGIN TO HEAR THOSE LITTLE -- HE CAN'T HELP HIMSELF. HE CAN'T. HE ALWAYS HAS TO PUSH TO THE POINT. SO IF YOU'RE LISTENING CLOSE ENOUGH, YOU CAN HEAR THE INTONATIONS OF WHAT HE IS UP TO AND THEN WHEN YOU HEAR HIM, FLE. OR IF YOU'RE ALREADY GOING TO CHURCH, JUST SAY THAT PRAYER, IN THE NAME OF JESUS MY LORD AND SAVIOR, BE GOOD MORNING SATAN. >> IT'S INTERESTING TOO WITH THAT, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THAT THING IN YOUR LIFE AND IT LOOKS GOOD AND IT TURNS OUT IT'S NOT REALLY SO GOOD, AND YOU HAVE TO TRUST YOUR FEELINGS A LOT OF TIMES IN THOSE THINGS ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE A CATHOLIC OAR CHRISTIAN. WHEN YOU START TO GET THE BAD VIBES, LISTEN TO THOSE. >> OH, I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. WE'RE SO GOOD AT SAYING OH, GUILT, THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT -- LET MAY THERAPIST TAKE CARE OF IT. LET MY THERAPIST TAKE CARE OF IT. GO AWAY. BUT GUILT IS AN IMPORTANT NEGATIVE VIBE. EMPTINESS. THE IDEA THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE SHRINK AND MAKE IT GO AWAY AND OR TAKE A PILL AND MAKE IT GO AWAY. SOMETIMES THE EMPTINESS IS A REAL PROFOUND SPIRITUAL EMPTINESS COMING FROM THE SEPARATION OF YOURSELF FROM GOD. AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS ZERO BACK IN ON GETTING BACK INTO RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD GOING BACK TO PRAYER, GOING BACK TO CHURCH, GOING BACK TO THE SACRAMENTS, FOLLOWING HIS COMMANDMENTS. THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER. SO AGAIN, WHEN YOU FEEL THE NEGATIVE VIBES, AS I ALWAYS SAY, FLEE FROM THE EVIL AND GO TOWARD GOD. HE IS YOUR PROTECTION. GO TOWARD THE LORD JESUS. HE IS YOUR PROTECTION. GO TOWARDS ST. MICHAEL. GO OF COURSE TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. SHE IS YOUR PROTECTION. SO THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO IS THINK TO YOURSELF, I JUST GOT TO MAKE THESE THINGS GO AWAY. I WILL HAVE ANOTHER COUPLE OF SCOTCHS AND THEN I WILL BE OKAY. I THINK I WILL GO AND DO A TV WATCHING BINGE ON MY FAVORITE SHOW. YOU KNOW. >> THE GALLANT MEN. >> WHAT I COULD HAVE DONE. I DEFINITELY COULD HAVE WATCHED THAT IN A PINCH. BUT I COULDN'T GET ENOUGH OF IT. BUT THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS THAT DEFINITELY YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE IS A PROPENSITY THERE TO WANT TO MAKE IT GO AWAY BUT DON'T. JUST LISTEN TO IT. AND THE ONLY WAY OUT IS GOD, GOD, GOD. >> WHY DON'T WE STAY WITH THAT. FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT IS BAD, YOU SHOULD FEEL GUILTY AND IF YOU DON'T FEEL GUILTY THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU. YOU'RE DOING BAD THINGS. SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE IDEA OF SAYING WELL, WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THAT GOD MADE US SO AND WE'RE DOING SOMETHING AND WE INJURY OURSELVES AND WE HAVE PAIN. WELL, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW YOU INJURED YOURSELF. >> YEAH. THAT'S HOW YOU DON'T GET HIT BY A CAR AND THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T PUT YOUR HAND ON THE STOVE AND THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T -- JUST SLICE YOURSELF AND KEEP ON BLEEDING UNTIL YOU'RE DEAD. YOU GUYS A CLUE. AND DISABILITY A CLUE. EMPTINESS IS A CLOW. THE HORROR AND SHUDDER OF EVIL AS SOON AS A CLUE. AND INSTEAD OF TAKING A PILL OR TRYING TO SEE MAKE IT GO AWAY, SURE, OF COURSE IF YOU'RE REALL, LET'S CALL IT A NEUROTIC OR EVEN PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER ON A PROFOUND BASIS, OF COURSE YOU WANT TO GO TO A PSYCHIATRIST GET SOME PROFESSIONAL THERAPY AND ET CETERA. BUT OFTEN ENOUGH, IF YOU LOOK BACK, THERE'S A SEPARATION FROM GOD THAT STARTS THE WHOLE MANIFESTATION OF DEPRESSION AND IT ALWAYS BEGINS WITH THAT EMPTINESS OR LONELINESS, THAT EMPTINESS WHERE I'M SHAVING AND LOOKING AT MYSELF IN THE MIRROR AND NOTHING IS COMING BACK TO ME. I HAVE NO SUBSTANCE. I'M SCARED. THERE'S A VOID IN THE PIT OF MY STOMACH. OR I'M JUST TAKING A WALK AT NIGHT OUTSIDE. AND, OF COURSE, I FEEL LIKE I'M TOTALLY ALONE IN THE WORLD OUT OF KILTER WITH THE TOTALITY OF REALTY. I MEAN THERE'S NOTHING OUT THERE EXCEPT COLDNESS AND DARK AND VOID AND JUST A BIG MEANINGLESS WORLD AND YOU JUST GO WAIT A MINUTE IS THAT BECAUSE SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH MY PSYCHE? YEAH, SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR PSYCHE. BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A NATURAL CAUSE. IT COULD BE. COULD BE FROM A PAST TRAUMA OR A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IN THE BRAIN. BUT ALSO, VERY POSSIBLY COULD BE THAT YOU'RE SEPARATING YOURSELF FROM GOD AND THERE'S ANOTHER SPIRIT GETTING INTO THE MIX. AND WHEN THAT BEGINS TO HAPPEN, YOU ARE ALREADY ALIENATED FROM YOURSELF, EMPTINESS, THE LONELINESS IS STARTING IN AND THOSE ARE REAL CLUES THEUGD MOVE BACK TOWARD GOD. HE'S CALLING YOU BACK TO YOURSELF, AS SAINT IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA PUT IT, THE STING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT IS LEADING YOU BACK TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR BEING THAT UNCONDITIONALLY LOVING SOURCE OF GOD WHO IS DRAWING YOU INTO THE FULLNESS OF JOY AND THE LOVE OF THE RESURRECTION UNTO ETERNAL SALVATION. THAT'S THE GOD YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO. HE WILL FORGIVE YOU. ABOUT YOU YOU ALSO HAVE TO HAVE THAT FIRM PURPOSE OF TRYING TO DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE TO FOLLOW THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. >> RIGHT. AND THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ASK YOU IN THE LAST MINUTE OR SO, JUST BEFORE WE COME, WE THINK ABOUT THE WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN TODAY AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF THE VANITY AND THE POWER AND THE PRIDE AND WE SEE THIS CULTURE OF NOT ONLY CANCELLATION BUT VIRTUAL DESTRUCTION, THAT IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO CORRECT SOMEBODY OR POINT OUT SOMEBODY -- YOU HAVE TO DESTROY THEM. WHERE IS -- WHERE IS THAT COMING FROM? >> WELL, IT'S COMING FROM PRIDE ESSENTIALLY. THAT'S THE POWER MOVE. IT'S NOT ENOUGH FOR ME TO ASSERT MYSELF AS HAVING THE TRUTH OVER AGAINST YOU. IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE FOR A GOOD ARGUMENT. IT'S NOT EVEN ENOUGH FOR ME TO GAME YOU IN SOME POLITICAL WAY. I JUST -- THE BEST THING CAN I DO IS TO DESTROY YOU. AND THAT'S WHERE HATE COMES INTO THE PICTURE BUT IT'S REALLY ABOUT DOMINATION. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CHALLENGE ME, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, CHALLENGING ME? I'M YOUR SUPERIOR! I'M LIKE GOD TO YOU! AND YOU DARE -- YOU LITTLE WIMP, TO CHALLENGE ME? TELL YOU THAT'S WHAT THE I'M GOING TO DO. I'M GOING TO KILL YOU INTO THE GROUND AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU 15 TIMES. WHO TOLD YOU YOU WERE EQUIVALENT TO ME? THE SOURCE OF PRIDE. THERE IT IS. AL PACINO DARES THE DEVIL -- YOU KNOW, WHO TOLD YOU YOU HAD THE RIGHT TO CHALLENGE ME? THAT'S PRIDE OVER WEANING. I AM GOD. YOU ARE MY SUBJECT. GET IN LINE. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH PRIDE WRIT LARGE. THAT'S WHAT YOU OUGHT TO FEAR. AND YOU KNOW THE SPIRIT BEHIND IT ALL -- THE EVIL SPIRIT, THE ABSOLUTE ENEMY OF THE LOVING GOD. >> WE HAVE CHRIST ON OUR SIDE. WE HAVE THE WINNING SIDE. WE JUST HAVE TO HANG WITH IT. GIVE US YOUR BLESSING OFTEN THE WAY OUT OF THE DOOR FATHER. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND BOW YOUR HEADS AND FRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. AND IN THIS EASTER SEASON MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU WITH THE SENSE, THE AWARENESS, AND THE DEPTH OF THE RESURRECTION, THE GLORY, THE LOVE, THE JOY THAT WILL BE YOURS THROUGH YOUR EASTER FAITH, LIVED OUT IN THE COMMANDMENTS, LIVED OUT IN THE WORLD. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> AMEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FATHER MUCH WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. BE SAFE. AND OF COURSE DON'T FORGET ABOUT AS WE CONTINUE WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT DEALING WITH CHRIST, FATHER SPITZER'S BOOK IS AVAILABLE WITH OTHER DVD's. WE HAVE THREE WONDERFUL BOOKS COMING UP ON AN INTERESTING BOOK MARCH WITH DR. GIRARD SIREN USING COMING UP THIS WEEKEND. AND DON'T FERGUS THIS SUNDAY, APRIL 11 IS DIVINE MERCY SUNDAY. NAYS AND CELEBRATION OF DIVINE MERCY FROM STOCKBRIDGE MASSACHUSETTS. ALWAYS POPULAR, APRIL 11 AT NOON EASTERN. AND DIVINE MERCY HOLY HOUR ALWAYS LOVED BY THE SHRINE OF THE MOST BLESSED SACRAMENT WITH OUR SISTERS IN HANCEVILLE ALABAMA WHERE MOTHER BEGAN THAT SHRINE, AT 4:00 P.M. EASTERN. SO DIVINE MERCY THIS IS THE PLACE TO BE. AND FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE, THE PLACE FOR FAITH AND REASON AT THE CROSSROADS EACH WEEK. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT TIME. [MUSIC]
