[MUSIC] >> WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON WHERE YOU CAN FIND US EACH WEEK HERE ON EWTN. I'M DOUG KECK, YOUR HOST/NAVIGATOR, WITH THE MOTHERSHIP IN OUR ANNIVERSARY YEAR OF NUMBER 39, MOVING INTO 40, AMAZING WORK OF MOTHER ANGELICA. YOU CAN REACH US VIA EMAIL, FACEBOOK, OR TWITTER, IF THEY WON'T BUMP US OFF IF YOU ASK A TOUGH QUESTION. AND MAGIS CENTER WEBSITE FOR ALL THINGS FATHER SPITZER AND TODAY WE CONTINUE OUR TOPIC ABOUT WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THIS TIME THE COMPLIMENT OF SCIENCE, REASON AND FAITH WHICH THIS SHOW HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT AND WE WILL TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT. SPEAKING OF SPECIFIC, WE HAVE THE BOOK OF THE MONTH, ABOUT THE DIVISION OF A SCANDALIZED CHURCH BY THE ONE AND ONLY FATHER MITCH PACWA, OUR GREAT BUDDY WHO DOES EWTN LIVE, AND I WILL HAVE THE PLEASURE OF BEING ON WITH HIM IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS. WE ARE GOING TO DO AN ENTIRE EPISODE TALKING ABOUT THIS BOOK ON THE EWTN LIVE SHOW. THAT'S AVAILABLE THROUGH OUR RELIGIOUS CATALOG. MOVING TO THE OTHER COAST AND THE OTHER SOCIETY OF JESUS MAINSTAY OF EWTN, WE HAVE OUR OWN FATHER SPITZER. HOW ARE YOU DOING IN UNIVERSE THIS WEEK? >> DOING GREAT. >> MY UNIVERSE IS ALSO GREAT SO I GUESS THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE WILL START CONFORMING. JUST KIDDING. >> YOU NEED TO EXPAND YOUR INFLUENCE AND START OFF BY GIVING US A PRAYER IF YOU WOULD. >> YOU BET. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. HOLY FATHER, WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR YOU MANY BLESSINGS TO US AND ALSO ASK YOU TO LOOK OUT AFTER OUR FAMILIES, OUR CULTURE, OUR COUNTRY, OUR WHOLE WORLD THIS DAY. PLEASE HEAL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN PHYSICALLY AND FISCALLY HARMED BY THIS PANDEMIC, SOCIALLY UNREST. PLEASE ALSO LORD CONTINUE TO GUIDE US IN THE WAY OF YOUR TRUTH AND YOUR GOODNESS. I ASK YOU TO ACCEPTED YOUR SPIRIT DOWN UPON DOUG, MYSELF AND THE AUDIENCE THIS DAY SO WHATEVER WE DO IS BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL, FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, CHURCH AND KINGDOM, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. SEASON. MARRY. >> MARY SEAT OF WISDOM AND ST. JOHN EUSTICE PRAY FOR US. >> IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> AMEN. >> SOME INTERESTING STORIES. YOU'RE AN EDUCATOR AND YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF EDUCATION THROUGH THE MAGIS CENTER WEBSITE. RECENTLY I SAW A STORY OF A TEACHER OUT OF IOWA UNIVERSITY WHO INDICATED HER SYLLABUS THAT BASICALLY YOU WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE PRO-LIFE OR TALK ABOUT PRO-LIFE ISSUES IN A CRITICAL WAY FOR PRO-CHOICERS, AND, IF YOU DID, YOU WOULD BE BASICALLY OPEN TO BEING DISMISSED FROM THE CLASS. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THIS OPEN DISCUSSION AND FREE DISCUSSION OF IDEAS WE ALWAYS HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT? >> WELL, I MEAN THERE'S THE QUESTION. I MEAN IF YOU PUT THAT IN YOUR SYLLABUS THAT YOU'RE CLOSED OFF TO AN ENTIRE RANGE OF IDEAS, THAT OBVIOUSLY IMPINGE ON THE CLASS, THAT'S NOT A REAL CLASS, IT'S NOT REAL ACADEMIC FORUM. IF YOU SAY WELL, YOU CAN'T BRING UP ANYTHING THAT IS CRITICAL TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, WHAT IS THE POINT OF BEING THERE. THAT'S WORSE THAN PURE SOPHISTRY. AT LEAST THE SOPHISTS TRIED TO MAKE AN INTELLIGENT ARGUMENT ON THEIR SIDE VERSUS THE OTHER SIDE BUT TO PRECLUDE DISCUSSION IN AN ACADEMIC FORUM WHERE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SUBJECT THINGS TO DIALECTIC DISCUSSION? THAT'S UNBELIEVE. IT SHOWS EDUCATION HAS ONCE AGAIN REACHED AN ALL-TIME LOW. SHOULDN'T BE CYNICAL BUT I'M NOT SURPRISED. YOU KNOW IT'S VERY, VERY TYPICAL THAT -- NOW CENSORSHIP GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION, CENSORSHIP FROM THE VANTAGE POINT, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T CORRESPOND TO MY SOCIAL AGENDA. CENSORSHIP IS ON THE RISE AND ACADEMIC DISCUSSION OPEN DIALECTICAL INQUIRY ABOUT VARIOUS POINTS OF VIEW IS OFF LIMITS, SO TRUTH IS NOT THE REAL OBJECT ANYMORE. THE REAL OBJECT IS MY OPINION WINS, CHECK MATE. >> NOW, YOU HAVE DEALT WITH A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS IN THE CHURCH AND EVEN THOSE OUTSIDE WHEN YOU WERE AT GONZAGA, OBVIOUSLY, A LARGER GROUP OF PEOPLE ASSUMING MANY OF THEM WERE NOT CATHOLIC OR CERTAINLY NOT PEOPLE PRACTICING THEIR FAITH. AND THE IMPRESSION WE GET IN LOOKING AT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD, THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS UP SURGE AND THIS BELIEF IN SOCIALISM. DID YOU SEE THAT OCCURRING WHEN YOU WERE AT THE UNIVERSITY? >> NOT SO MUCH WITH RESPECT TO SOCIALISM. I THINK, YOU KNOW, STUDENTS -- MAYBE THEY WERE OPEN TO MORE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL BUT THE IDEA OF HAVING GOVERNMENT CONTROL BE SORT OF SWEEPING OR THE IDEA OF HAVING THEM IN SOME SENSE NOW CONTROLLING MEANS OF PRODUCTION OR IN SOME SENSE BEING DRACONIAN IN THE REGULATION OF BUSINESS TO THE POINT WHERE THE FREE MARKET IS INTERFERED WITH, I REALLY DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF THAT. BUT REMEMBER THIS IS LIKE 10 YEARS AGO. SO YOU KNOW NOW, DEFINITELY, IT HAS INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY. AND YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE VERY CONSCIOUS OF WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU ALLOW THAT KIND OF INTERFERENCE IN THE MARKETPLACE. YOU'RE GOING TO LIMIT CREATIVITY. YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO WIND UP MOVING THINGS INTO A WHOLE NEW DOMAIN OF -- INSTEAD OF -- YOU KNOW YOU PLAY TO THE REGULATIONS INSTEAD OF PLAYING TO THE MARKETPLACE AND PLAYING TO EFFICIENCIES AND PLAYING TO COMPOSITION AND WHAT IT WINDS UP DOING IS IMPEDING COMPETITION, UNDERMINING PRODUCTIVITY, WHICH AT THE END OF THE DAY IS GOING TO UNDERMINE YOUR ECONOMY, THE JOB PRODUCTION, AND OF COURSE THE CREATIVITY, THE INNOVATION WHICH IS NECESSARY FOR OUR WORLD TO PROGRESS. SO YOU KNOW, THAT -- I'M NOT SAYING THERE SHOULDN'T BE GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT OF BUSINESS. THERE SHOULD BE GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT OF BUSINESS TO PREVENT THE KINDS OF TERRIBLE ABUSES THAT HAPPENED DURING THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THERE HAS TO BE GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT TO PROTECT COMPETITION BUT NO TO THE INTERFERE. THERE SHOULD BE GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT TOO TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WORKERS ARE BEING TREATED SAFELY, FAIRLY WITHIN THE WORKPLACE. THAT'S ALL WITHIN THE PROPER RANGE OF GOVERNMENT. BUT WHEN IT JUST BECOMES AN ADMINISTRATIVE STATE OVERLY REGULATORY AND YOU'VE GOT MORE -- YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE FORMING WHOLE ACCOUNTING AND LEGAL PROFESSIONS JUST TO DEAL WITH GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS AND SMALL BUSINESSES, OH, MY GOSH, IT'S OVER THE TOP. IT'S RIDICULOUS. AND SO YOU CAN'T EVEN KEEP UP WITH IT. YOU CAN'T ATTEND TO YOUR BUSINESS. YOU'VE ALWAYS GOT TO BE LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE NEW GOVERNMENT REGULAR THAT YOU HAVE TO DO. SO I THINK AT THAT JUNCTURE IT HAS MOVED FROM PROPER FUNCTIONING OF GOVERNMENT TO ALMOST THIS SEPARATE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE WITH ALL OF ITS VARIATION REGULATIONS THAT REQUIRES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BE HIRED TO DEAL WITH THESE THINGS. I'M A BIG FAN OF WINSTON CHURCHILL AND MY GUESS IS YOU WERE TOO WITH HIS THOUGHTS ON THINGS. HE SAID IN 1945 THE INHERENT ADVICE OF CAPITALISM IS THE UNEQUAL SHARING OF BLESSINGS AND SOCIALISM IS THE EQUAL SHARING OF MISERIES, PRONOUNCED IN 1948. HE SAID: A PHILOSOPHY OF FAILURE. THIS IS ON SOCIALISM. A CREED OF IGNORANCE. AND A GOSPEL OF ENVY AND THAT EVERY SOCIETY THAT EMBRACED IT ENDED UP IN RUIN. AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS KIND OF SURPRISING IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE HEAR THIS ATTITUDE ALONG THE LINES IN SOME PLACE -- IT'S MISPLACED IN THE CHURCH BUT THERE'S A SENSE SOMETIMES WHAT WE HEAR TODAY THAT CROSSES OVER FROM THE WELFARE OF ALL TO A KIND OF ENVY. >> YEAH, WELL, I THINK, AS USUALLY, CHURCHILL IS VERY INSIGHTFUL, BUT I DO THINK ONCE ENVY GETS OUT AND IT'S JUSTIFIED AS JUSTICE -- AND ENVY IS NOT JUSTICE. JUSTICE HAS A CRITERION. IT HAS AN EQUITY TO IT. BUT IT DOESN'T TAKE THINGS AWAY FROM PEOPLE THAT WERE JUSTLY THEIRS. THAT'S -- JUSTICE PREVENTS THAT. ENVY WANTS NO NOT ONLY GET WHAT THE OTHER PERSON HAS BUT TO DESTROY THE PERSON WHO HAS IT. SO YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO GET ENVY OUT THERE RULING THE ECONOMIC WORLD. SO THAT'S A PROBLEM IN AND OF ITSELF. BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE PRESENT PREDICTION WHICH I TALKED ABOUT LAST WEEK, OF CHURCHILL THERE, EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY EXPERIMENT WITH SOCIALISM HAS BASICALLY WOUND UP RUINING THE ECONOMY AND THE COUNTRY THAT IT WAS IN. IT ALWAYS LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE A BLESSING. IT LOOK LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE THE NEW UTOPIA AND IT WINDS UP BEING THE WORST OF DYSTOPIAS UNDERMINING PROTECTION, LEADING TO MASSIVE UNEMPLOYMENT AND INEFFICIENCIES AND IN THE END POVERTY. IT'S JUST NEVER WORKED. WE NEED THE FREE MARKETPLACE FOR HUMAN CREATIVITY, ENERGY, RISK TAKING, TO COME TO THE FORE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT ANIMATES AND MOVES ECONOMIES TO NEWER AND NEWER LEVELS -- NOT JUST OF TECHNOLOGY BUT OF EFFICIENCIES, PRODUCTIVITY AND THE GOOD SENSE OF THAT WORLD. THAT ALL PRODUCES JOBS AND JOBS ARE WHAT IS NEEDED. >> UNFORTUNATELY TOO MANY OF US SPENT OUR TIME WATCHING ANIMAL HOUSE INSTEAD OF ANIMAL FARM AND YOU MIGHT PICK UP A LITTLE BIT MORE OF WHAT OUR FUTURE MIGHT HOLD IF WE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT PARTICULAR BOOK OR THAT PARTICULAR MOVIE. SO LET'S MOVE INTO THE QUESTIONS HERE FOR YOU. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, KINDING TALKING ON TOPIC, STILL GOING ON IN THE WORLD. I'M IN MY EARLY 70S AND I'M RELATIVELY GOOD HEALTH AND I ACCEPT GOD'S WILL FOR ME AS TO WHETHER I WILL SUFFER FROM THE CORONAVIRUS OR NOT. I DO NOT TAKE UNNECESSARY CHANCES. I WEAR A MASK AND PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING YET I AM BEING TOLD TO NOT ATTEND MASS OR ADORATION BECAUSE OF MY AGE. DO WE NOT REACH A POINT WHERE WE NEED TO TRUST IN GOD AND NOT PUT OUR FAITH IN THE POLITICS OF THE DAY? ANNA. >> WELL, ANNA, YOU HAVE TO FIRST OF ALL MAKE A GOOD PRO ADDITIONAL JUDGMENT. YOU DON'T WANT TO TEMPT THE LORD YOUR GOD. YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THINGS THAT PUT YOURSELF IN THE LINE OF FIRE. NOW, IF YOU'RE OVER 70, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OVER 70 YOU MIGHT BE, HANNAH, BUT IF YOU'RE WELL OVER 70 AND YOU DO HAVE SOME DIFFICULTIES, IF YOU HAVE ANY KINDS OF LUNG PROBLEMS, HEART PROBLEMS, THINGS LIKE THAT, PLEASE DON'T TAKE THE CHANCE. I MEAN I DO THINK, AS I SAID BEFORE, THERE'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST 10 STRAINS OF NONEMBRYONIC VACCINATION THAT ARE GOING TO BE MADE AVAILABLE AROUND MAYBE NOVEMBER-ISH, RIGHT IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK MODERNA IS ALREADY IN PRODUCTION. IT'S A NONEMBRYONIC LINE. I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, 300/00/0000 BEING PRODUCED RIGHT NOW. I THINK THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH INTO PHASE TWO CLINICAL TRIALS NEAR THE END. SO MAYBE IN NOVEMBER. JUST HOLD OFF A LITTLE BIT, AN AIR. ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT MIGHT EXACERBATE THE SYMPTOMS OF COVID OR THE CORONAVIRUS. I THINK NOVEMBER YOU'RE GOING TO GET YOUR VACCINATION. I THINK THEN GO BACK TO ADORATION, BE SAFE. IN THE MEANTIME DO EVERYTHING YOU'RE COULD DOING. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY; RIGHT. REMEMBER GRACE BUILDS ON NATURE. MAKE HAD A GOOD PRUDENTIAL JUDGMENT. DON'T TAKE UNNECESSARY RISKS. GOD WORKS THROUGH NATURAL CAUSES SO DON'T SET YOURSELF UP TO GET SICK. BECAUSE CAUTIOUS. LIKE I SAID, NOVEMBER, YOU WILL GET A NONEMBRYONIC VACCINE OUT THERE AND I THINK IT WILL BE FINE. THE MAGIS CENTER WEBSITE, IF YOU GO TO MAGISCENTER.COM AND IF YOU SEE THE SEARCH BAR ON THE RIGHT PUT IN "VACCINE" AND YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THE NONEMBRYONIC STRAINS OUT THERE. >> BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT FROM AND A LOT OF MISINFORMATION ON THE WEBSITE THAT GETS FLASHED AROUND AND MAKES PEOPLE THAT MUCH MORE FEARFUL THAN THEY ALREADY ARE AND WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. IT'S GOOD TO BE INFORMED BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BE MAKING OURSELVES CRAZY EITHER. >> PARANOID? EXACT. >> HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. 'ER FATHER SPITZER: RECENTLY A FRIEND OF MINE AND PRIEST WERE DISCUSSING THE DEATH OF A NEWBORN CHILD THAT PASSED BEFORE THE CHILD COULD BE BAPTIZED. THE PRIEST STATED ORIGINAL SIN IS NO LONGER PART OF THE CHURCH DOCTRINE TO. ME IT'S HAD A CORE BELIEF. DO WE NO LONGER BELIEVE IN ORIGINAL SIN? THIS IS JOHN. >> Father: JOHN, YOU MUST HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THAT PRIEST. I HOPE YOU DID ANYWAY. THAT'S JUST PLAIN WRONG. ORIGINAL SIN IS ABSOLUTELY A PART OF CHURCH DOCTRINE. WHAT HE PROBABLY MEANT WAS SOMETHING LIKE LIMBO, WHICH WAS A THEOLOGICAL OPINION, IT WAS NOT A CHURCH DOCTRINE, THAT UNBAPTIZED BABIES GO TO LIMBO RATHER THAN TO GO TO HE EITHER HEAVEN OR PURGATORY OR CERTAINLY THE BABY IS NOT GOING TO GO TO HELL, SO LIMBO IS THE STATE THAT WAS PROJECTED. BUT NOW THE CHURCH HAS BASICALLY SAID, NO. THAT THEOLOGICAL OPINION HAS BEEN SUPERSEDED AND BASICALLY THAT LITTLE BABY IS GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN. SO THAT'S OK. I THINK -- NO PROBLEM THERE. BUT ORIGINAL SIN? OH, NO. ORIGINAL SIN THERE WAS DEFINITELY A FALL AND THE FALL AFFECTED ALL OF US. ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, OUR FIRST ANCESTORS LET'S CALL THEM ADAM AND EVE AND THEY HAD AN ACT OF PRIDE OR ENVY OR WHATEVER IT WAS. THEY WERE TEMPTED, I THINK VERY DEFINITELY BY THE EVIL SPIRIT WHO IS VERY REAL AND THEY'RE IN THE GARDEN TO DO HIS THING. AND WHATEVER THE SIN WAS -- MAKE IT WAS A SIN OF PRIDE. IT WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME. EGOCENTRICITY, NARCISSISM, I MEAN, YOU MAKE A FREE AGENT AND YOU CAN MAKE A NARCISSIST ICK MOVE REAL FAST. I THINK WHAT HAPPENED WAS, INSOLED ADAM AND EVE HAD A VERY INNOCENT UNDISTURBED, UNMITIGATED VISION OF DIVINE JOY AND GOODNESS. I THINK THEY WERE ON A LEVEL DIFFERENT FROM OURSELVES FOR A LITTLE WHILE. AND THEN THE OLD EGO CAUGHT UP AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, SOME ACT OF PRIDE, YOU KNOW, SOME ACT OF ENVY, SOMETHING THAT GOT SOMEBODY TO DO SOMETHING STUPID EITHER TO SOMEBODY OR TO GOD, AND THAT KIND OF TOOK THE VISION AWAY. THAT KIND OF UNMITIGATED VISION AS ST. AUGUSTINE SAID OPENED US ALL TO CONCUPISCENCE, WHICH IS THIS ADDITIONAL TENANT THAT IF YOU'RE AMAZED BY THE GRACE OF GOD AND LOOKING IN THE FACE OF GOD YOU'RE MUCH LESS DISTRACTED BY SIN OR BY THE -- WHAT I CALL "THE 8 DEADLY SINS" THAN YOU WOULD BE IF, FOR EXAMPLE, OR LOOKING THROUGH THAT LENS AND IT'S A SMOKY LENS. SO WE SORT OF SEE GOD, WE KIND OF SENSE GOD'S PRESENCE BUT IT'S REALLY A LITTLE BIT MORE AMBIGUOUS THAN ALL OF THE THINGS OUT THERE. WE'RE SUBJECT TO IT. BUT THROUGH THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST AND THROUGH NOT ONLY OUR BAPTISMAL CHRIST BUT THE HOLY EUCHARIST, SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION, BY OUR ATTEMPTS AT PRAYER, WE CAN GET BETTER AND BETTER AT MOVING BEYOND, YOU KNOW, THE CONCUPISCENCE OF DISCIPLINING OURSELVES TO BECOME WHAT ST. PAUL CALLED THE NEW MAN, THE OVERCOMING OF THAT CONCUPISCENCE BY OUR FREE AGENCY WORKING THROUGH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. BUT ORIGINAL SIN? OH, YEAH. NEVER GOT DISPENSED WITH. SO I HOPE YOU MISUNDERSTOOD THAT PRIEST THERE, JOHN, AND LET'S JUST SAY FOR THE TIME BEING HE PROBABLY MEANT LIMBO. HE DIDN'T MEAN ORIGINAL SIN. >> IT SEEMS OUT THERE IN SOME WAYS THE SECULAR HUMANIST APPROACH IS THE IDEA THAT BASICALLY SINCE PEOPLE AND CHILDREN ARE BORN, YOU KNOW, GOOD AND THEN IT'S THE SOCIETY THAT TURNS THEM INTO BAD PEOPLE, IN WHICH CASE IF YOU CORRECT EARLY CHILDHOOD TEACHING AND CORRECT THE STRUCTURES PEOPLE THEN NATURALLY DO GOOD THINGS, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS NOT TRUE? BABIES CAN BE PRETTY EGO ACTIVITY KEL. THEY'RE LOVABLE -- NOT BABIES BUT INFANTS. BY THE TIME THE SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS PEEKS IN, AS JEAN PIAGET SAID, THE CHILD THINKS THAT THE SUN IS REVOLVING OF AROUND HIM. AND IT'S NOT JUST YOU. THE SUN IS DOING THE SAME THING WITH RESPECT TO ALL OF US OUT THERE. IT'S NOT YOU IN THE CENTER AND YOU IN CONTROL. REALLY THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. AND YOU HAVE NOT LEARN THAT. BUT OH, NO, WE HAVE THAT TENDS WHEN THE CHILD ASSERTS A RED FACE "NO!" THAT OLD DISOBEDIENT CHURCH, BELIEVE ME, THE URGES OF SIN ARE THERE. >> RIGHT. THEY ARE WEREN'T TAUGHT THAT PART. >> Father: THAT'S RIGHT. >> HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER: AS YOU SAID BEFORE AND THIS PERSON POINTS OUT WAS IT INEVITABLE ORIGINAL SIN WOULD HAVE ENTERED THE HUMAN RACE AT SOME STAGE? IF ADAM AND EVE HAD NOT SINNED SURELY ONE OF THEIR DESCENDANTS WOULD HAVE GIVEN IN SINCE THEY ALL HAD FREE WILL. THIS IS FROM JUSTIN. >> Father: IT WASN'T INEVITABLE. THAT WOULD MEAN IT'S PREDETERMINED. BUT THEY HAD FREE CHOICE. SO IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PREDETERMINED OR INEVITABLE. BUT HERE THE OLD CYNIC SPITZER IS THINKING TO HIMSELF, IS SOMEBODY WITH FREE CHOICE GIVEN THE POSSIBILITY, EVEN WITH THAT BEAUTIFUL VISION THEY HAD OF GOD AND I BELIEVE THEY HAD AN UNMITIGATED PRESENCE AND I BELIEVE THAT WAS PART OF GOD'S CREATION BUT I THINK EGO CAN BE QUITE STRONG. SURE, MAYBE THERE'S AN ALIEN CULTURE OUT THERE WHERE THEIR EGOS NEVER GOT A HOLD OF THEM AND THEY STAYED IN A STATE OF INNOCENCE AND THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. HOWEVER IN OUR CASE IT CERTAINLY HAPPENED AND WE'RE OFF AND RUNNING WITH EGOCENTRICITY, PRIDE, ENVY ANGER AND THE REST OF THE SINS IN THE LEAD. I SHOULDN'T SAY IN THE LEAD BUT HAVING A GREAT DEAL OF CONTROL. I STILL BELIEVE THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE AT LEAST 51 PERCENT GOOD. >> YOU AND ANNE FRANK. THERE YOU GO. WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT SIN. I THINK WE WILL HAVE MORE DISCUSSION ON SIN IN THIS PROGRAM THAN PEOPLE HERE IN SOCIETY IN A WEEK. DEAR FATHER SPITZER: IS IT A MORTAL SIN IF ONE COMMIT'S NONSINFUL ACTION THAT THEY BELIEVE IS A MORTAL SIN. FOR INSTANCE IF I BELIEVE EATING APPLES IS A MORTAL SIN AND I EAT THE APPLE DO I GO AGAINST THE WILL OF GOD? >> NO. BECAUSE THE FIRST THING YOU NEED IS OBJECTIVELY GRAVE MATTER. OBJECTIVELY MEANS IT'S NOT CONTROLLED BY WHAT YOU KNOW ORB DON'T KNOW. SO IS EATING APPLES OBJECTIVELY GRAY MATTER? NO. FAILS THE FIRST TEST. IT'S NOT A MORTAL SIN. I HAVE HAD -- WHEN I WAS A HOSPITAL CHAPLAIN AND FIRST ORDAINED, I WAS ASSIGNED TO A HOSPITALIZED. AND ONE OF THE FIRST LEADS I MET WAS KIND OF DELUSIONAL. SHE CAME AND SAID, WELL, I HAD THIS VISION OF GOD. I SAID THAT'S GREAT. AND SHE WAS TALKING TO ME ABOUT IT AND SAYS HE IS ORDERING THAT I HAVE TO EAT 20 STEAKS A DAY. AND I SAID OH, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE THE CASE. AND THEN "OH, NO, I'M VERY SURE THAT WAS THE CASE, THAT WAS GOD ALL RIGHT." SO I TRIED TO BE REASONABLE. BUT LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FIND A COMMANDMENT ABOUT EATING STEAKS YOU KNOW? I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY SUCH COMMANDMENTS. CAN YOU FIND A COMMANDMENT LIKE THAT? >> NO. BUT THIS WAS ONE TO ME. AND YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND SAY WHY DID HE GIVE YOU A ABSENCE AND HE DIDN'T ANYONE ELSE. AND YOU HAVE AN ANSWER AND YOU GO AND AROUND. THAT'S WHY THE CHURCH SAYS YOU NEED OBJECTIVELY GRAY MANNER. AND SHE MAY HAVE SAID I'M CONDEMNED BY MY OWN CONSCIOUS, I'M NOT EATING STEAKS AND GOING TO GO TO HELL. SHE'S NOT. PURE AND SIMPLE. SHE IS JUST NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING THAT KIND OF A DECISION, A FREELY DETERMINED DECISION TO DISOBEY GOD. SHE IS TRYING TO OBEY GOD, OF COURSE IN A WAY THAT IS ERRONEOUS AND PEOPLE AREN'T BY THE GRACE OF GOD LETTING HER DO IT. >> BESIDES, EATING 20 STEAKS A DAY SHE WOULD NOT BE IMPRESSION HER HEALTH. THAT'S THE RIGHT APPROACH THERE. BEFORE ANOTHER QUESTION: DEAR FATHER SPITZER, AFTER WORLD WAR II AUSTRIA WAS OCCUPIED. AND A PRIEST DECIDED TO HELP FREE THE LAND AND THEY LEFT THE SOVIET UNION IN THE 1950S. WHY DOES NO SOMEONE START A EFFORT TO FREE OF US OF PLAGUES THAT ARE WITH US NOW? THIS IS FROM LAWRENCE. >> LAWRENCE, I THINK THERE ARE SOME ROSARY CRUSADES THAT I HAVE HEARD ABOUT. >> THERE'S ONE CALLED THE MILLIONROSARYMARCH.COM WHICH PEOPLE CAN CHECK OUT AND OUR FRIARS HAVE TALKED ABOUT. >> YEAH. SO TRY THAT WEB SITE MILLION ROSARY MARCH.COM. >> EXACTLY. SO THE REALITY IS THERE IS IT SHOW THERE ARE MORE THINGS OUT THERE HAPPENING THAN PEOPLE REALIZE MANY TIMES. AND MORE PEOPLE ACTUALLY DOING A LOT OF GOOD THINGS THAN WE'RE LED TO BELIEVE BY THE MEDIA. >> YEAH, PLEASE DON'T RESTRICT YOUR NEWS INTAKE TO THE BIG MEDIA OUTLETS, YOU WON'T KNOW 9/10 OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD THAT IS GOOD. >> NEXT UP. ONE MORE QUESTION BEFORE WE GO TO THE BREAK. I HAD, FATHER SPITZER: I'M WONDERING WHAT IS MEANT BY COMPLICITY. IS IT A SIN TO BUY A COFFEE AT STARBUCKS OR DO YOUR BANKING AT CHASE? IT SEEMS LIKE MOST COMPANIES CONTRIBUTE TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD. I'M NOT SURE THAT USING A CONTRIBUTE THAT CONTRIBUTES TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS WRONG. >> IT'S NOT WRONG PER SE BECAUSE THE DEGREE OF COMPLICITY OF BUYING THE STARBUCKS COFFEE IS SO MINIMAL THAT -- I MEAN YOU'RE BARELY CONTRIBUTING A PENNY TO THE CAUSE AS IT WERE, NOT EVEN A 10TH OF A 10TH OF A CENT, SO THE COMPLICITY IS MINIMAL. IT'S NOT WRONG. IT'S NOT A SIN IF THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN BY WRONG. SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING. THE SECOND THING, THOUGH. IF YOU DO, IN YOUR OWN CONSCIOUS THINK, I DON'T SUPPORT WHAT THEY SUPPORT THEN YOU PROBABLY WANT TO AVOID PAT NEWSING THAT COMPANY. AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE -- I'M NOT POINTING OUT TO ONE COMPANY OR ANOTHER COMPANY BUT IF YOU JUST DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BY ALL MEANS DON'T PATRONIZE THEM. THAT'S YOUR MONEY. BUT IT'S NOT WRONG TO DO THAT BASE THE LEVEL OF COMPLICITY IS SO MINIMAL, IT REALLY AMOUNTS TO NOTHING. SO I THINK PATRON EYES THE PEOPLE YOU LIKE AND DON'T PATRONIZE THE PEOPLE YOU DON'T. TRY TO LIVE AS BEST AS YOU CAN ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN SOCIAL CONSCIOUS BUT, NO, IT'S NOT WRONG. >> ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT OF WORK OF FATHER SPITZER AND SUPPORT THE WORK OF EWTN HOPEFULLY AS WELL. WE DO HAVE MORE TIME ON THIS ONE. FOR ANOTHER QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER. NOW, LUCIFER THE DEVIL WAS AN ANGEL IN HEAVEN, AND WE KNOW WHERE HE IS NOW. SINCE HE WAS ABLE TO SIN DOES THIS MEAN IT'S POSSIBLE TO SIN IN HEAVEN? THIS IS FROM NICK? >> NICK, YOU WON'T SIN IN HEAVEN BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE GONE THROUGH YOUR PURIFICATION AND WHEN THAT PURIFICATION IS COMPLETED, YOU WOULD NOT EVER WANT TO TRANSGRESS AGAINST GOD WHO NOW YOU SEE IN THE PURITY OF VISION AS YOU SEE EVERYONE ELSE IN THAT PURITY OF VISION. YOUR INTENTION TOWARD LOVE WOULD BE SO PURIFIED YOU WOULD NEVER SIN. NOW, IN THE CASE OF LUCIFER, RIGHT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RATION OF THE ANGELS. AND THE ANGELS HAVE AN ABILITY TO -- OF FREEDOM AND EVEN A CAPACITY TO SEE THE FUTURE AS IT WERE, LIKE WE DO NOT HAVE. AND LUCIFER BASICALLY WAS CREATED FREE. SO THERE HAD TO BE AT LEAST ONE FREE ACTION. AND THAT FREE ACTION OF LUCIFER WAS TO REVOLVE AGAINST GOD. OLD EGO GETS THE BETTER OF HIM, AND HE DECIDES I'M GOING TO SPEND AN INTERN TEE IN MISERY RATHER THAN GENUFLECT TO YOU SO I CAN DO IT QUOTE/UNQUOTE MY WAY AND THAT ACT OF RADICAL AUTONOMY AND SEPARATION OF GOD, YOU ARE NEVER BE MY AUTHORITY OR BOSS, THAT OF COURSE WAS A SIN. NOW, YOU CAN SAY THAT MEANS THERE WAS SIN IN HEAVEN. WELL, THERE WAS SIN AT THE CREATION OF THE ANGELS. AND I GUESS YOU COULD SAY BECAUSE IT WAS IN GOD'S DOMAIN YOU COULD SAY IT WAS IN HEAVEN BUT, NO, YOU WILL NOT BE SUBJECT IN ANY WAY. YOUR FREE CHOICE WILL BE PURIFIED. YOU WILL HAVE SUCH A COMPLETE VISION OF GOD AND OTHERS AND ANGELS IN LOVE THAT YOU WOULD NEVER TAKE YOUR GLANCE OFF OF THAT TO LOOK AT ANY ANYTHING THAT IS SORTED OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD DISTRACT YOU FROM THAT LOVE, ESPECIALLY AN ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE TO THE ONE THAT YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH. >> WITH THAT BEING SAID WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR BREAK HERE WITH FATHER SPITZER. WE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING MORE ABOUT SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS WHEN WE COME BACK AND ALSO BE TALKING MORE ABOUT THE TOPIC HERE ON EWTN. OF COURSE FATHER SPITZER, STAY WITH US. MUCH MORE AHEAD. WITH FATHER SPITZER. OF COURSE. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> WE APPRECIATE YOUR STAYING WITH US HERE ON FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE AS WE CONTINUE WITH OUR TOPIC WHAT IS SO SPECIAL WITH WENT TRADITIONAL CHURCH. IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS SO SPECIAL, CHECK OUT OUR APP, 1.2 MILLION AND COUNTING DOWNLOADS. THAT'S A WAY TO "FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" SHOW AND LEARN ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, FOLLOW ALL OF THE GREAT SHOWS ON EWTN AS WELL. YOU REALLY SHOULD BE PART OF THE TEAM. TAKE US WITH YOU. EWTN IS EVERYWHERE, ESPECIALLY OUT ON THE WEST COAST WHERE FATHER SPITZER IS IN HIS UNIVERSE OUT IN ORANGE COUNTY AT THE CHRIST CATHEDRAL STUDIOS OF EWTN. GREAT FOR STAYING WITH US. ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU THAT DOVETAILS OFF OF YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE COVID VACCINE. SO THIS PERSON SAID, WITH ALL OF THE TALK RECENTLY WHETHER CATHOLICS CAN GET A MORALLY COVID VACCINE AND YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THE LIST THAT YOU HAVE ON THE MAGIS CENTER WEBSITE, HE GOES ON TO SAY, WITH VACCINES FOR EVERYTHING FROM CHICKENPOX TO SHINGLES HOW DO THEY KNOW IF THEY WERE PRODUCED WITH RESPECT TO HUMAN LIFE. ANNE? >> ALL OF THAT RESEARCH IS DON FOR YOU. THERE'S A RESEARCH ARM -- LET'S SEE. I THINK IT'S CALLED THE CHARLOTTE LOZIER FOUNDATION, I THINK IT'S LOZIER. THAT HE DO RESEARCH INTO VACCINES. AND THE ONES THAT GENERALLY YOU GET THAT -- FOR EXAMPLE FOR SHINGLES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY ARE NOT PRODUCED BY, YOU KNOW, USE OF ANY EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS. IF THERE WERE THERE WOULD BE AN LETTER FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH INDICATING DON'T GET THIS VACCINE. MOST OF THEM, FOR EXAMPLE, SINGS IS A LIVE VIRUS VACCINE THAT IS PRODUCED IN VARIOUS CAPACITIES BUT I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM USE EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS THAT WERE IN COMMON USE. IF THERE WERE THERE WOULD BE AN LETTER FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I KNOW THE CHARLOTTE LOZIER FOUNDATION DOES ACTUALLY -- IF YOU JUST GO TO THEIR WEBSITE THEY GENERALLY POST ANY KIND OF AN ALERT LIKE THAT. AND THEY HAVE A COMPLETE LIST ALSO OF THE VACCINATIONS FOR COVID, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ARE NONEMBRYONIC AS WELL AS THE ONES THAT ARE EMBRYONIC. >> THERE ARE 60 IN PRODUCTION RIGHT NOW. AND OVER 20 OF THEM ARE NONEMBRYONIC AND MILLIONS -- HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF THEM ARE BEING PRODUCED. >> THAT'S GOOD NEWS TO KNOW. >> OK. HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU. FATHER SPITZER, THIS PERSON WRITES, I HAD SURGERY WHEN I WAS 10 YEARS OLD. DURING THE SURGERY I HAD AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE THAT WAS PEACEFUL AND REAL AND I SAW MY SURGICAL PROCEDURE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT IS A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE. I NEVER SAW A LIGHT OR A TUNNEL. WHAT PART OF ME WAS OUT OF MY BODY? WAS IT MY SOUL, SPIRIT OR MIND? CAN YOU OFFER YOUR INSIGHTS ON THIS. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU. THIS IS FROM MARIO. >> WELL, WHAT I WOULD SAY, I HAVE BEEN CALLING IT IN MY BOOKS -- I CALL IT YOUR SOUL. AND IT DEFINITELY EMERGES. YOU WENT THROUGH STAGE I OF WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED, YOU KNOW, UNDERGOING CLINICAL DEATH. IT'S CALLED OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE. OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE MEANS THAT YOU LEFT YOUR BODY, AND AS YOU LEAVE, YOU'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT YOUR BODY FROM UP ABOVE AND LOOKING DOWN BELOW AND SEEING DOWN BELOW, AS YOU D AS YOU WERE LOOKING AT YOUR SURGERY, YOU CAN SEE AND HEAR AND REMEMBER, AS YOU DID IN YOUR OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE. THAT'S CALLED AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE. BUT THEN IF YOU TRANSITION TO THE OTHER SIDE, OKAY, SO IF YOU GO TO, FOR EXAMPLE, A VERY BEAUTIFUL DOMAIN AND YOU'RE GREETED BY RELATIVES AND FRIENDS WHOA ARE TRANSFORMED AND LOVED, YOU ARE ENCOUNTER A LOVING WHITE LIGHT THAT TAKES AWAY ALL OF YOUR SUFFERING AND YOUR PAIN AND IT'S FILLING YOU WITH THIS LOVE AND THIS JOY, LET'S CALL THAT A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN ESSENTIALLY YOU MOVE TO ANOTHER DOMAIN. AND OFTENTIMES THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE SENT BACK. SOMETIMES WHEN YOU JUST HAVE THE OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE, YOU DON'T GO TO THIS OTHER DOMAIN. YOU JUST SHOOT RIGHT BACK INTO YOUR BODY AGAIN AND DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. OFTENTIMES WHEN YOU HAVE A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE YOU ENCOUNTER THOSE RELATIVES AND THEY WILL TELL YOU, I WAS SENT HERE AND I'M YOUR AUNT SO AND SO AND YOU WILL HAVE TO GO BACK. AND A LOT OF TIMES THEY WILL SAY DO I HAVE TO GO BACK? YES, LIKE AND THIS IS NOT YOUR TIME SO GOOD-BYE. SO THEY DO GO BACK YOU KNOW INTO THEIR BODIES BUT THEY'RE GENERALLY -- OFTENTIMES SENT BACK. >> INTERESTING. >> HI, FATHER SPITZER. I HAVE READ ABOUT PEOPLE'S NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES AND THEY CLAIM THAT WHILE THEY WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE, THEY WERE IN GLORIFIED TYPE BODIES WHICH FELT AMAZING. THEY CLAIM WHEN THEY CAME BACK TO EARTHLY BODIES IT WAS LIKE PUTTING ON DIRTY CLOTHES. WHY THEN WAS THE HEAVENLY MOTHER TAKEN WITH HER EARTHLY BODY IF HER HEAVENLY BODY IS SO MUCH BETTER? >> STEVE, SHE WAS TAKEN UP BUT SHE WAS BEING TAKEN UP AND SHE'S BEING GLORIFIED. IT'S THE GLORY FIX OF HER EARTHLY BODY. SHE DIDN'T GET A SECOND RATE DEAL GOING ON. ER EARTHLY BODY WAS GLORIFIED IN TOTAL. NOW, WHAT I BELIEVE IS TAKING PLACE IN NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE SAYS NOT THE GLORIFIED BODY. WHAT I BELIEVE IS TAKING PLACE IS IT'S KIND OF A MINIMALIST AFFECT. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU LEAVE AND YOU -- BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT SUFFERING ANY LONGER AND DON'T HAVE THE BODILY PAINS AND ACHES AND WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER THE WHITE LIGHT, YOU DO I HAVE IN EMOTIONAL PAIN, YOU'RE IN LOVE AND THAT LOVE SOMETIMES OVERCOME ALL OF THESE THINGS, SO THOSE THINGS, YES, THEY'RE ALL PRESENT. YOU'RE NOT CONTROLLED BY PHYSICAL LAWS LIKE GRAVITY, SO YOU CAN GO UP AND DOWN AND PASS THROUGH WALLACE, DO THINGS ASSOCIATION PEOPLE THINK, I MUST BE IN MY GLORIFIED BODY. WHEN YOU'RE IN YOUR GLORIFIED BODY YOU WILL BE TRANSFORMED IN POWER, IN GLORY, IN SPIRIT IN A WAY THAT HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, LEAVING YOUR BODY IN A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE, THAT'S THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. YOU HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH WHAT MARY HAS GONE THROUGH. MARY WAS TRANSFORMED AND GLORIFIED. A PERSON IN A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE, YOU HAD ALL OF THE LIMITATIONS OF HIS ALREADY HER PHYSICAL BODY WAS TAKEN AWAY, THE PAIN WAS TAKEN AWAY AND LIMITS OF PHYSICAL MATTER HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY. SO PEOPLE SAY I FEEL GREAT! BEING LOVED BY THIS WHITE LIGHT IS PRESENT AND YOU SAY, I FEEL GREAT. AND THAT'S ALL TRUE. BUT THE GLORIFIED BODY IS A BILLION TIMES TOLD LOVELIER ON THAT AND THAT'S WHAT MARY UNDERWENT AS SHE WAS BEING ASSUMED INTO HEAVEN. >> ONE LAST QUESTION BEFORE WE HIT OUR TOPIC. DEAR FATHER SPITZER: A FAMILY MEMBER THAT IS NOT CATHOLIC TRIED TO EXPLAIN OUR SOUL IS SPIRIT AND THEY'RE TWO INTENTS. OUR SOUL IS FEELING AND THOUGHTS AND SPIRIT IS WHAT IS WITH GOD. I KNOW THIS IS WRONG BUT HOW DO I EXPLAIN WHAT OUR SOUL IS? THIS IS CARLA. >> THIS GOES BACK TO THE PROBLEM OF, YOU KNOW, PAUL USES SOUL AND IT? DIFFERENT WAYS. ST. JOHN OF CROSS USES SOUL AND SPIRIT IN DIFFERENT WAYS BUT THEY'RE NOT REALLY REFERRING TO TWO ENTITIES. BOTH OF THEM ARE REFERRING TO THE TRANSPHYSICAL, THE TRANS MATERIAL PART OF YOUR -- CALL IT TRANSMATERIAL PART OF YOU THAT, WHEN YOU LEAVE YOUR BODY, IT'S CONSCIOUS AND IT SURVIVES, RIGHT, IT CAN SURVIVE BODILY DEATH AND IT HAS THE SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS. IT IS THE GROUND OF YOURSELF CONSCIOUSNESS AND EGO AND SO FORTH. SO ALL OF THESE THINGS LET'S JUST CALL THAT -- WHY DON'T WE CALL IT YOUR TRANSPHYSICAL NATURE AND THAT WAY WE DON'T USE THE WORD SPIRIT. CALL IT YOUR SOUL OR SPIRIT -- I JUST CALL IT SOUL. THAT'S WHAT I DO IN MY BOOKS. THE SPIRITUAL PART OF THE SOUL IN PARTICULAR, I THINK YOUR FRIEND HAS -- AND DON'T SAY THIS IS LIKE ANOTHER SOUL. IT'S NOT. JUST SAY IT'S THE SPIRITUAL PART OF MY TRANSPHYSICAL NATURE OR THE SPIRITUAL PART OF MY SOUL, SO THAT THE MAIN THING TO REMEMBER THERE IS THAT SPIRIT MAKES CONTACT WITH GOD OR I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT. GOD IS MAKING CONTACT WITH THAT SPIRIT THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GETTING YOUR TRANSCENDENTAL DESIRE FOR PERFECT TRUTH, PERFECT GOOD EVENING PERFECT GOODNESS. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GETTING THAT COMMUNICATION FROM GOD. THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE THAT SENSE OF THE MYSTERIOUS AND THE LOVING. SO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES THERE, YOU COULD SEE, RIGHT, THAT THE SPIRIT IS IN CONTACT. NOW, THE SOUL CAN ALSO, YOU KNOW, BE SENSITIVE ARREST AWARE OF OTHER THINGS BESIDES GOD AND WE WILL JUST CALL THAT THE NONSPIRITUAL PART OF THE SOUL. IT'S STILL TRANSPHYSICAL BUT IT'S NOT IN CONTACT WITH GOD. THAT'S THE BEST WAY I CAN -- I HAVE OF SORT OF PUTTING TOGETHER ST. PAUL, ST. JOHN THE CROSS AND VARIOUS USES OF SOUL AND SPIRIT. BUT DO NOT DIVIDE THE TWO ENTITIES IN TWO. THERE'S NOT A SOUL AND THEN A SPIRIT. YOU HAVE ONE TRANSPHYSICAL NATURE WHICH IS THE POINT OF YOURSELF CONSCIOUSNESS, THE POINT OF YOUR FREEDOM, RIGHT, THE POINT OF YOUR AWARENESS OF THE WORLD AROUND YOU AND THE WORLD INSIDE OF YOU. AND THAT ONE NATURE HAS THE COMPONENT OF BEING ONE OF THEM IN CONTACT WITH GOOD, THE TRANSCENDENT AND THE OTHER ONE IS SORT OF IN CONTACT WITH THE WORLD AROUND YOU, AND IT AND EVEN ENTERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE NOT PARTICULARLY GOOD FOR YOU. SO THE SOUL IS A MORE NEUTRAL THING. THE SPIRIT IS THE PART OF THE SOUL THAT IS DEFINITELY CONNECTED WITH GOD AND WITH GOD'S VIRTUE AND LOVE. >> LET'S MOVE ON TO OUR TOPIC IN THE LAST 15 MINUTES OR SO, WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND COMPLIMENT OF SINCE A REASON AND FAITH. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT SINCE YOU SHOWED UP AT EWTN. >> TRUE ENOUGH. >> BUT YOU MAKE THE POINT THERE WERE 286 PRIESTS WHO WERE INSTRUMENTED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF MOST BRANCHES OF PHYSICS AND BIOLOGY AND APPLIED MATHEMATICS AND WE HEAR THAT. NOW, WHAT DO YOU SAY SO SOMEBODY THAT SAYS, WELL, THE REASON THEY WERE PROTESTS WAS BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET EDUCATED BACK THEN WAS THROUGH THE CHURCH AND REALLY IN SOME WAIVES THEY WERE SCIENTISTS FIRST AND PRIESTS SECOND. >> THAT WOULD BE FROM A HISTORICAL POINT OF VIEW, HOGWASH. I MEAN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE PRIESTS AND EDUCATED PEOPLE, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN AN EDUCATED PERSON ANYWHERE. THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO BE A PRIEST. I MEAN THEY COULD HAVE MADE JOINED THE SEMINARY AND THEN SAID, BOY, I LIKE THIS INVOICE INDICATION STUFF. THEY WERE NOT CONSTRAINT TO BE A PRIEST. SO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES THESE PEOPLE REMAINED PRIESTS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE A PRIEST. ANTONIO VIVALDI, HE COULD HAVE BEEN A WELL-KNOWN SECULAR COMPOSER BUT HE WASN'T. HE STAYED A PRIEST AND BECAME A PRIESTLY COMPOSER. FRANCIS BACON WHO IS THE FRANCISCAN WHO DEVELOPED SCIENTIFIC METHOD, THE FIRST PERSON TO DEVELOP IT, HE WAS A FRANCISCAN MONK. I MEAN HE DIDN'T HAVE TO BE A FRANCISCAN. HE COULD HAVE LEFT THE ORDER AND TAUGHT IN A UNIVERSITY. HE WAS SMART AS A WHIP. HE GOFF GOTTEN A GREAT JOB AND PEOPLE WOULD HAVE HAD HIM IF HE WEREN'T A MONK OR WHATEVER. AND THE DISCOVERER OF THE BIG BANG THEORY -- YOU'RE KIDDING ME? THE GUY DIDN'T HAVE TO BE A PRIEST. IF YOU GET AN MIT DEGREE AND YOU'RE A COLLEAGUE OF EINSTEIN'S YOU REALLY DON'T NEED TO BE A PRIEST. YOU CAN GET A REALLY GOOD SECULAR JOBS WHERE. AND, BY THE WAY, HE WAS A WORLD WAR I HERO TWO. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. REALLY BIOGRAPHY OF THE DISCOVERER OF THE BIG BANG THEORY. DID NICHOLAS STANO HAVE TO BE A PRIEST AND BISHOP? OF COURSE, HE DOESN'T. HE COULD HAVE GOT A GREAT JOB. HE IS THE FATHER OF CONTEMPORARY GEOLOGY. AND GREGOR MENDEL, ALL OF THE HEADACHES OF BEING AN ABBOTT OF A MONASTERY, UNLESS YOU LOVED GOD, WANTED TO BE A PRIEST AND WANTED TO HELP OUT. I MEAN HE COULD HAVE GOTTEN A GREAT SECULAR JOB BEING A GENETICIST -- HE COULD HAVE HAD A GREAT JOB JUST BEING A GENETICIST. THIS IS HOGWASH. DON'T BUY THAT EXPLANATION. JUST SIMPLY RESPOND TO PEOPLE. REALLY THESE GUYS WANTED TO BE PRIESTS AND THEIR VISION OF GOD, I REALLY BELIEVE, ANIMATED THEIR PURSUIT OF SCIENCE. SIR, ARTHUR EDINGTON WHO WAS NOT A PRIEST BUT A VERY GOOD SPIRITUAL MAN, HE WAS VERY ANIMATED IN HIS PURSUIT OF SCIENCE BY HIS BELIEF IN GOD, AND HE DECLARES THAT. IN HIS WONDERFUL WORK A DEFENSE OF MYSTICISM AT THE END OF HIS BOOK, AND THIS IS A COMPREHENSIVE BOOK COMBINING GENERAL ACTIVITY AND QUANTUM THEORY CALLED THE NATURE OF THE PHYSICAL WORLD. THIS IS LIKE ONE EQUATION AFTER THE NEXT AND THEN YOU GET TO THE LAST MART OF DEFENSIVE MYSTICISM AND I'M LIKE, YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME? NO. IT ANIMATED HIM. SIR, ISAAC NEWTON WAS CERTAINLY ANIMATED BY HIS BELIEF IN GOD, AND THIS HAD VERY MUCH TO DO WITH HIS VIEW NOT ONLY OF COSMOLOGY AND THE WORLD, BUT HE BELIEVED, YOU KNOW, THAT THIS ANIMATED HIS DESIRE TO LEARN ALL OF THE EQUATIONS OF PHYSICS AND SO FORTH. SO I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL FOR 286 PRIESTS TO HAVE CONTRIBUTED REALLY WELL TO SCIENCE, BECAUSE, IN MY VIEW, GOD AND SCIENCE GO ALONG WELL WITH ONE ANOTHER. WHEN YOU SEE THE ORDER, THE ORDER WHICH IS SO PROFOUND, THE ORDER WHICH OBEYS THESE -- SOMETIMES WE HAVE LINEAR EQUATIONS AND NONLINEAR OCCASIONS. HOW COULD YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDERLINESS OF A PHENOMENA THAT OCCURRED IN NONLINEAR EQUATIONS? HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU DO THIS? THERE'S SOME KIND OF ORDER HERE. THERE'S SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ONLY JUST ORDER AND INTELLIGENT, REALLY INTELLIGENT, BUT REALLY BEAUTIFUL AND REALLY LOVING. AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT INTUITIVE PART, WHY ARE 51 PERCENT OF SCIENTISTS THEISTS ACCORDING TO A STUDY FROM THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENTISTS? ANYBODY WHO IS OPEN TO GOD WHO IS A BRIGHT SCIENTIFIC MIND IS GOING TO LOOK OUT THERE AND GO OH, OF COURSE, THE ORDER, THE ELEGANCE, THE BEAUTY, THE SYMMETRY, YOU KNOW, THE INTENTS THAT COMPOUNDS WITH LOVELINESS. ALL OF THIS YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THIS POINTS TO GOD FOR ME. SO I THINK THAT'S WHY. >> WHY DO 88 PERCENT OF PHYSICIANS AFFILIATE WITH A RELIGION? THAT'S 88 PERCENT. THAT'S A LARGE MAJORITY OF PHYSICIANS AFFILIATE WITH A RELIGION. AND BY THE WAY, 2/3 AFFILIATE MODERATELY TO SUBSTANTIALLY IN THEIR RELIGION. BECAUSE THEY SEE SOMETHING IN THE BEAUTY OF THE BIO SYSTEM WHICH IS NOT JUST THE BIOSYSTEM OF HUMAN BEINGS BUT ALSO IN THE SPIRIT THAT IT IS SOMEHOW IMMERSED IN HIS REALITY AND THEY SEE IT POINTING TO GOD. THAT'S WHY. AND PRIESTS ARE NO DIFFERENT. AND IN FACT THEY'RE ENHANCED OPENNESS TO GOD REALLY ALLOWS THEM TO JUST BE ANIMATED IN THEIR SCIENTIFIC PURSUIT BY THEIR LOVE OF THE CREATOR THAT THEY SEE IN EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO. >> SO SOME HAVE CONTENDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH MANIFESTED IN ANTI SCIENTIFIC ATTITUDE DURING THE CONTROVERSY WITH GALILEO. WE HEAR THAT ALL THE TIME, THAT'S THE CANARD THAT COMES FORWARD. EXPLAIN TO US WHY THAT IS A >> IT REALLY WASN'T ABOUT SCIENCE. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. GALILEO WAS A GENIUS. AND HE WAS A PRACTICING CATHOLIC. HE WAS A VERY GOOD PERSON. HE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF AN EGO PROBLEM, I WOULD SAY, AS MANY DO, INCLUDING MYSELF, AND WHAT HAPPENED IN THE GALILEO AFFAIR WAS NOT ABOUT SCIENCE. SAINT ROBERT BELLERMAN, A JESUIT CARDINAL WHO, 10 YEARS BEFORE, DECLARED, ON BEHALF OF THE CHURCH, THAT IF IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE WAS FOUND FOR HELIOCENTRISM, AND WE COULD TELL BY MEANS OF STELLAR PARALLAX OR SOME OTHER MEAN OR DIRECT ASTRONOMICAL OBSERVATION, THAT IN POINT OF FACT, THE PLANETS, INCLUDING THE EARTH WERE ROTATING AROUND THE SUN, THEN WE, AS CATHOLICS WOULD HAVE TO BELIEVE IT AND CONFIRM OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES ACCORDINGLY. HE WAS SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE VATICAN HERE. SO THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. 10 YEARS LATER, SEE, AND -- I WISH BELLERMAN HAD LIVED 10 MORE YEARS. PROBABLY COULD HAVE AVOIDED THE ENTIRE GALILEO CONTROVERSY. HE WAS A SMART GUY. AND HE CERTAINLY SAID WE HAVE -- FAITH AND REASON CANNOT BE INCONSISTENT. FAITH AND SCIENCE ARE NOT GOING TO BE INCONSISTENT WITH EACH OTHER. THEN HE GOES ON AND HE DIES. NOW, WHAT HAPPENS? THE POPE SAYS TO GALILEO, YOU'RE GETTING OUT THERE, YOU STILL HAVEN'T PROVEN THIS, YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN EVIDENCE FOR HELIOCENTRISM. RIGHT NOW, DON'T ROCK THE BOAT. FRANKLY, I'M GETTING CRITICIZED BY THE PROTESTANTS OUT HERE, AND I'M TOLD BY THE PROTESTANTS THAT YOU CATHOLICS ARE STUCK ON GENESIS AND NOT TAKING THE WORD OF GOD SERIOUSLY. SO HE SAID, LOOK, YOU'RE PUTTING ME IN A BAD POSITION. RIGHT NOW, DON'T BE CLAIMING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE GOT EVIDENCE OF HELIOCENTRISM. THROW THE WHOLE INTERPRETATION OF GENESIS IN QUESTION. IT'S GETTING -- IT'S UNDERMINING THE FAITHFUL. IT'S GETTING ME IN TROUBLE HERE. JUST LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL YOU GET THE EVIDENCE. NOW THAT WAS A PERFECTLY SOUND AND GOOD THING TO SAY. SO GALILEO GOES OUT AND WRITE'S BOOK CALLED "TWO NEW WORLD SYSTEMS" AND HIS BOOK, HE GOES OUT AND BASICALLY IMPLIES SERIOUSLY THAT BEYOND A DOUBT HELIOCENTRISM IS TRUE. DID HE HAVE THE EVIDENCE? NO, HE DID NOT HAVE THE EVIDENCE. THEN HE GOES ON -- THIS IS PRETTY MUCH AUDACITY HERE. HE GOES ON TO PUT THE WORDS AS IT WERE OF THE FOOL -- I MEAN THE WORDS OF THE POPE IN THE MOUTH OF A CHARACTER CALLED THE FOOL. AND SO THAT WAS PROBABLY DIPLOMATICALLY NOT A GOOD THING TO DO. AND OF COURSE IF THE POPE DIDN'T GET THE SLIGHT, EVERYBODY AROUND HIM DID AND TOLD HIM. SO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES NOW YOU HAVE A REAL PROBLEM. GALILEO PROMISED THE POPE HE COULDN'T DO IT. HE WENT AHEAD AND DID IT AND CALLED THE POPE A FOOL. THINGS LIKE THAT. AND OF COURSE THE THING DEVOLVED. DID GALILEO HAVE A FAIR TRIAL? I'LL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TICKED OFF AT GALILEO AND PROBABLY PUSHED THE THING ALONG, FOR SURE. I MEAN THEY WERE EGOS TOO. SO EGOS ON BOTH SIDE OF THE EQUATION. GALILEO CAME OUT AND ADMITTED OKAY, I GOT AHEAD OF MYSELF. AND GALILEO CALLED IT A SIN OF PRIDE. NO QUESTION. HE DID DO THAT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, PEOPLE WANTED TO PUSH IT. AND WHAT DID THEY DO? BECAUSE THEY WERE AGAIN EGO, ANGER, DEADLY SINS SO THEY PUSHED AND SAID, YOU HAVE TO BE EXILED. THE POPE DIDN'T WANT GALILEO TO BE EXILED IN A MEAN SPIRITED WAY SO HE EXILES HIM TO HIS VILLA, WHICH WAS A NICE VILLA, TONS OF BUT HE WAS STILL IN EXILE AND REALLY WAS THAT A FAIR OUTCOME OF THE TRIAL? IT COULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE. GALILEO SHOULD HAVE BEEN TREATED BETTER. HEAVE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TREATED, YOU KNOW -- TO HAVE THE FULL RANGE OF ACADEMIC COLLEGIALITY. BUT AGAIN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A DIFFERENT AGE. YOU KNOW, I'VE TALKED ABOUT HIGH GROUP CULTURE AND LOW GROUP CULTURE BEFORE IN THE SHOW. DURING THAT TIME YOU'VE GOT WHAT IS CALLED A HIGH GROUP CULTURE. AND HIGH GROUP CULTURES, I WILL JUST SAY THIS VERY BRIEFLY BECAUSE IT'S A MORE EXTENDED DISCUSSION. IN A HIGH GROUP CULTURE, TO CRITICIZE THE AUTHORITY SOURCE, IT IS REALLY BAD. SO YOU KNOW, TODAY IF YOU GO TO -- THERE'S LOTS OF HIGH GROUP CULTURES OUT THERE. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ISLAMIC CULTURES, FOR EXAMPLE, VERY HIGH GROUP CULTURES. WHERE THE AUTHORITY IS AT THE CENTER OF THINGS. HE CONSTITUTES THE GROUP. THE LAW IS AT THE CENTER OF THINGS. HE CONSTITUTES THE GROUP. AND OF COURSE WHAT'S THE WORST SIN YOU CAN COMMIT? HERESY. IT'S NOT MASS MURDER. IT'S HERESY. YOU MOVE AGAINST THE AUTHORITY SOURCE ET CETERA. NOW, I'M TALKING ABOUT MARY DOUGLAS' THEORY HERE. SO NOW YOU GO TO LOW GROUP CULTURES. LOW GROUP CULTURES, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL AS THE CENTER; RIGHT? I'M BOB SPITZER, THE AMERICAN. BOB SPITZER, THE CATHOLIC. WHEREAS IN THE HIGH GROUP CULTURE IT'S I'M BOB SPITZER, LITTLE GUY. THE CATHOLIC. THE AMERICAN -- SO MY GROUP DEFINES ME. WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SET OF VIRTUES AND VICES. IN GALILEO'S TIME, YOU'RE DEALING WITH HAD A "HIGH GROUP CULTURE" AND IN THAT HIGH GROUP CULTURE, THE AUTHORITY SOURCE IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE IDENTITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE GROUP. AND SO IF YOU ATTACKED THE AUTHORITY SOURCE, YOU TALKED THE IDENTITY OF EVERYBODY IN THE GROUP AND THEY DON'T LIKE YOU VERY MUCH. AND SO THAT'S REALLY THE TENDENCY OF THAT CULTURE. AND THAT'S WHAT WAS HAPPENING. WE LIVE IN A VERY LOW GROUP CULTURE. AND IT'S VERY HARD FOR US TO UNDERSTAND HIGH GROUP CULTURE. BUT IF YOU WANT TO READ AN EXCELLENT BOOK BY MARY DOUGLAS, CHAIR OF ANTHROPOLOGY AT OXFORD TAKE A LOOK A THE BOOK CALLED "NATURAL SYMBOLS," AND YOU CAN SEE -- IT'S A REALLY FASCINATING DISCUSSION. BUT JUST REMEMBER THIS. YOU KNOW, POPE IRVIN AND GALILEO LIVED IN A HIGH GROUP CULTURE. THERE WAS A LOT OF TENSION THAT WAS GOING ON, YOU KNOW. THE POPE WAS UNDER PRESSURE FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS. AND BELLERMAN WASN'T AROUND TO SORT OUT THE SCIENTIFIC DETAILS. AND YOU KNOW, IF I COULD WISH FOR ANYTHING IT WOULD BE THAT HE WAS AROUND. BECAUSE THERE WAS A SPOKESMAN WHO UNDERSTOOD THE SCIENCE VERY CLEARLY, NEW THE KINDS OF PROCEDURES THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE EVIDENCED IN ORDER FOR HELIOCENTRISM TO BE ASSERTED AS A FACT, AND PARALLAXISM WASN'T DONE UNTIL, I THINK, 1856 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR I FORGET, BUT IT WAS A GERMAN NAMED BETHAL OR SOMETHING DID IT LIKE 200 YEARS LET'S JUST SAY THAT. SO IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE THE FACTS IN PLACE. HE WENT AHEAD AND ASSERTED IT BUT YES THERE WERE SINS ON BOTH SIDES, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- >> AS IS USUALLY THE CASE AND MOST REVIEWS OF HISTORY FIND IN HIS. WE COULD USE YOUR BLESSING ON THE WAY OUT OF THE DOOR. >> OH, WOW. OKAY. HOLY FATHER, WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR SPIRIT DOWN UPON ALL OF US. THE SPIRIT OF REASON AND FAITH. THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND LOVE THAT COMES FROM YOU, THE CREATOR. SO FILLED WITH INTELLIGENCE, SO FILLED WITH TRUTH AND SO FILLED WITH ELEGANCE, SO FILLED WITH BEAUTY AND MAJESTY AND ABOVE ALL THE OUTPOURING OF LOVE THAT MAKES IT ALL POSSIBLE FOR US, YOUR INTELLIGENT CREATURES TO GLORY IN YOUR GLORY. HELP US TO SEE THIS WITH EVER GREATER VISION AS THESE PRIEST, SCIENTISTS DID. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> AMEN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FATHER SPITZER. STAY WELL. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. DON'T FORGET FATHER SPITZER HAS A WONDERFUL ARRAY OF BOOKS AND VIDEOS AVAILABLE THROUGH OUR RELIGIOUS CATALOG, ewtnrc.com. NEXT WEEK WE WILL CONTINUE ON. NOW, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE INTO THE TRANSFORMATIVE POWER OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST. AND A COUPLE OF "BOOK MARKS" COMING UP WITH THE ONE AND ONLY PETER KRAFT AND WE WILL ASK HIM AND ETHICS FOR BEGINS. CHECK HIM OUT ON BOOKMARK. AND WE HAVE THE INSTALLATION OF BISHOP RUZANSKI OF SOLUTION, TUESDAY, AUGUST 25 AT 3:00 EASTERN TIME. CHECK US OUT NEXT TIME WAS WE ONCE AGAIN VENTURE INTO "FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." [MUSIC]
