[MUSIC] >> Doug: WELCOME TO A NEW YEAR OF "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. I'M DOUG KECK AND REMINDING YOU THE SHOW IS ONLY POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF YOUR EMAILS, FACEBOOK POSTS AND TWEETING US ON TWITTER! OF COURSE, FOR THE magiscenter.com WEB SITE, YOU CAN GO THERE AND CHECK OUT FATHER SPITZER. FOLLOW US ALONG ON crediblecatholic.com AND NOW, WE'RE GETTING INTO THE EUCHARISTIC COMMEMORATION IN THE FIRST CENTURY. WE'LL HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE PRIOR PROGRAMS POPPING UP. AND WE HAVE A WONDERFUL BOOK COMING OUT, RAISING UPRIGHT KIDS IN AN UPSIDE DOWN WORLD BY THE ONE AND ONLY DOCTOR RAY GUARENDI. YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE PITHY, FUN, INSIGHTFUL AND THIS IS AVAILABLE THROUGH EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG, ewtnRC.com. SPEAKING OF INSIGHTS, WE TURN NOW TO FATHER SPITZER. I WOULD HAVE SAID PITHY BUT, HE CAN BE PITHY BUT HE'S ALSO IN DEPTH! [LAUGHTER] >> Father: GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, DOUG! >> Doug: WE'RE HERE IN THE NEW YEAR AND IF YOU WANT TO KICK US OFF WITH A PRAYER. >> Father: ABSOLUTELY. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE ASK YOU TO BLESS THIS NEW YEAR, BLESS ESPECIALLY TOO ALL OF THE OPPORTUNITIES AND GRACES THAT YOU WILL GIVE US, THAT WE MAY ACCEPT THEM AND REALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU OFFER TO US, TO DEEPEN OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU IN OUR HEARTS. WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT, THIS DAY, UPON DOUG, MYSELF, AND ASK THAT YOU ANIMATE US SO THAT EVERYTHING WE DO IS BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, YOUR CHURCH, AND YOUR KINGDOM, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN. AND OF COURSE, THIS IS SOMETHING NEAR AND DEAR TO YOU, BUT JANUARY IS REALLY PRO LIFE MONTH HERE ON EWTN. WE HAVE SPECIAL PROGRAMS ALL MONTH LONG LOOKING FOR LIVE COVERAGE, ONE LIFE L.A.; MARCH FOR LIFE, THE GRANDDADDY OF IT ALL ON THE 24TH FROM WASHINGTON. AND WALK FOR LIFE FROM SAN FRANCISCO ON JANUARY 25TH. THAT'S JUST A FEW OF THE BIG EVENTS. THAT'S CATHOLIC PRO LIFE PROGRAMMING ALL MONTH LONG, THE NETWORK FOR THIS. AND MOTHER ANGELICA WAS INCREDIBLY PRO LIFE AND IS PRAYING FOR US AS WE SPEAK AND FOR THE UNBORN CHILDREN AS WE SPEAK. AND THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE INFANT CHILD ANDEL DIVINO NINO, THAT WHOLE ASPECT OF OUR LORD WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO MOTHER AND TO THE SPIRITUAL TEE OF EWTN. SPIRITUAL TEE OF EWTN. LET'S GET INTO OUR QUESTIONS THAT WERE LEFT OVER FROM LAST YEAR AND WE DIDN'T GET INTO! SO, LET'S SEE. HELLO FATHER, WHY DID THE VIRGIN MARY CHANGE HER APPEARANCE DURING THE MIRACULOUS PRESENCES AT FATIMA, LOURDES, IN MEXICO, THE ORIENT, ET CETERA. IS THERE A CONSISTENT LOOK MARY HAD OR WILL WE EVER KNOW THIS SIDE OF HEAVEN? RESPECTFULLY, SUSANNA. >> Father: SUZANNE, I THINK YOU ANSWERED THE QUESTION. I DON'T THINK WE'RE REALLY GOING TO KNOW THIS SIDE OF HEAVEN BUT THERE'S A FEW HINTS. LIKE, OUR LADY OF LOURDES BEING CONNECTED OBVIOUSLY WITH THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. YOU KNOW, THEN WITH RESPECT TO MEXICO, IN 1531, WITH JUAN DIEGO, THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY TO MAKE HER APPEAR TO BE COMPLETELY IN RELATION TO THE CULTURE THAT JUAN DIEGO O WAS IMMERSED. AND SHE DOES HAVE THE APPEARANCF THAT CULTURE, THAT TIME. MOST OF THE TIME, YOU CAN SAY THAT THE REAL REASON THAT SHE APPEARS AND THE WAY SHE DOES IS FIRST TO CONNECT WITH THE PERSON OR AUDIENCE THAT SHE'S ADDRESSING. AND SECONDLY, LIKE IN THE CASE OF LOURDES, THERE IS DEFINITELY SYMBOLIC CONNECTION TO THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION WHICH IS ABOUT TO BE PRONOUNCED A DOCTRINE AT THE TIME. SO, I THINK ALL OF THESE THINGS, THEY ARE IN HER PLAN. BUT THINK IF WE WANT TO KNOW THE FULL REASONS, WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL WE GET TO HEAVEN. >> Doug: AND I THINK A REMINDER FOR THE WORLD WE LIVE IN TODAY THE LOOKS AND APPEARANCES IS NOT REALLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. AND THE WHOLE MESSAGE FOR THAT IS THAT SHE'S MOTHER FOR ALL OF US BASICALLY. >> Father: EXACTLY. >> Doug: AND HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION, A QUICK ONE. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, WAS MARY BAPTIZED, AND IF NOT, WHY NOT. DIANNE. >> Father: WELL, SHE DIDN'T NEED TO BE BAPTIZED. WE SAY SHE WAS IMMACULATELY CONCEIVED BECAUSE SHE WAS BORN INTO THE WORLD WITHOUT ORIGINAL SIN. AS HAVING RECEIVED OUR LORD INTO HER WOMB, SHE'S RECEIVING, OF COURSE, THE VERY HOLY SPIRIT THAT IS PART AND PARCEL OF HIS HUMAN NATURE THAT'S BEING INCARNATED IN HIS WOMB. SO, THERE REALLY WASN'T A NEED FOR HER TO BE BAPTIZED. SHE DOES NOT HAVE ORIGINAL SIN. SHE'S GOING TO RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH THE INCARNATION OF HER SON WITHIN HER WOMB. SO, THERE WAS NOT A NEED TO DO THAT. AND I KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE THAT QUESTION, HOW CAN SHE BE WITHOUT ORIGINAL SIN BECAUSE JESUS TOOK AWAY ORIGINAL SIN IN HIS ACTIONS ON THE CROSS, HIS COMPLETE SELF SACRIFICIAL ACTION ON THE CROSS. THE CHURCH BASICALLY SAID THAT THE LORD RETROACTIVELY, KNOWING OF COURSE, THE ENTIRE FUTURE, ABLE TO COLLAPSE TIME INTO THE FUTURE, TAKES THAT GRACE FROM THE FUTURE ACTION OF HER SON AND LITERALLY COLLAPSES THAT TIME THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SO OFTEN WITH RESPECT TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST. AND COLLAPSES THE GRACE OF THAT MOMENT, ON THE CROSS, AND APPLIES IT TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY AT THE TIME OF HER CONCEPTION, AT THE MOMENT OF HER CONCEPTION. >> Doug: LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, WAS SHE GIVEN THE GREAT GRACE BECAUSE SHE WAS GOING TO SAY YES? OR SO THAT SHE WOULD SAY YES? >> Father: WELL, THERE'S TWO NUANCES TO THIS QUESTION, WHICH IS A REALLY GREAT QUESTION. BUT THE FIRST THING, I'LL TELL YOU, IT'S A LITTLE OF, SHE DOESN'T NEED IT TO SAY YES. THEN IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A FREE ACTION. BUT HER FREE ACTION IS EVERYTHING. SO, THE SECOND SUGGESTION THAT SHE'S GIVEN THE GRACE, WELL, THAT'S NOT THE CASE. BUT REALLY, THE CHURCH SAYS IT WAS FITTING AND THAT'S THE WORD THAT WE TRANSLATE FOR THE LATIN, AND IT WAS FITTING THAT SHE NOT HAVE THAT GRACE. IT WAS NOT NECESSARY THAT SHE HAVE THE GRACE, YOU KNOW, TO BE BORN WITHOUT ORIGINAL SIN. IT WAS FITTING AND THAT WOULD ENABLE HER TO BETTER HER TO RAISE HER SON SO THAT HER SON WOULD BE IN HIS HUMAN NATURE, NOT EFFECTED IN SOME WAY OR IN CONCUPISCENCE WHO OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE EFFECTED HER. BUT IT WAS NOT NECESSARY. OTHERWISE, YOU GET YOURSELF INTO AN INFINITE REGRESSION GOING BACKWARDS. AND IT WOULD BE HER PARENTS AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. SO, THE CHURCH USED WHAT WAS FITTING AND INDEED A GOOD THING. GOD HAS THE CAPACITY TO DO IT AND HE DID IT BECAUSE IT WAS NOT ONLY A GOOD THING, NOT ONLY A FITTING THING BUT ANNAS ANNS TO HER, BUT NOT A NECESSARY ASSISTANCE IN RAISING HER CHILD. BUT MARY WAS ABSOLUTELY FREE TO BASICALLY, IN HER NATURE AND GOD KNEW THAT TO AT THE PRESENT THE LORD FULLY INTO HER HEART. >> Doug: OKAY. LET'S FOCUS ON YOU, NOW. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, LET'S SEE. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, ON A RECENT SHOW YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE NOT SURE OF GETTING TO HEAVEN. IF YOU, A PRIEST, GOD'S MAN, ARE NOT SURE, WHAT CHANCE DO THE REST OF US HAVE TO GO TO HEAVEN? LEONOR, CALIFORNIA. >> Father: WELL, LET ME JUST SAY, WE ALL HOPE AND IT'S LIKE ST. PAUL WOULD NEVER PRESUME TO SAY, I'M GUARANTEED MY ENTRANCE, TO HAVE THE HUMILITY TO SAY THAT. I HAVE THE HUMILITY TO SAY THAT. WHAT DO I THINK? WELL, I REALLY DO HAVE A HOPE. MY HOPE IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, ALMOST AS COMPLETE AS IT COULD BE THAT THE LORD WILL SAVE ME. I'M TRYING TO STAY ON THE ROAD TO SALVATION, I'M TRYING TO CALL UPON HIS MERCY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I HAVE FAILED. I'M CALLING UPON HIS MERCY WHEN I HAVE FAILED. I'M TRYING TO GET BACK ON TRACK AND FOLLOW HIM AS BEST I CAN. AND AT THE SAME TIME, I TRY, I'M GOING TO CONFESSION PERIODICALLY AND TRYING TO RECALL MY SINS. BASICALLY GOING TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST, NOT GOING BUT I'M CELEBRATING THE HOLY EUCHARIST EVERYDAY. AND ALL OF THESE THINGS CONSIDERED, I DO HAVE A VERY, VERY FIRM HOPE THAT I WILL BE SAVED. UTTERLY PRESUMPTUOUS TO SAY, I AM SAVED. AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO GO THAT FAR AND IF I COMMUNICATED I WAS UNSURE, MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE BEST WORD TO SAY. LET'S JUST SAY, I HAVE A VERY GOOD SENSE THAT, YES, THE LORD WILL SAVE ME, I CANNOT SAVE MYSELF, HIS MERCY IS UNCONDITIONAL AND UNRESTRICTED. I'M TRYING TO STAY ON THE ROAD AND I CALL UPON HIS MERCY WHEN I GET OFF THE ROAD. AND I STAY WITHIN THE SACRAMENTS. BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE VERY, VERY STRONGLY AND HOPE VERY, VERY STRONGLY THAT HE WILL SAVE ME AT THE END. SO, YEAH, I'M NOT RACKING MYSELF IN DOUBT. AND I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD RACK YOURSELF IN DOUBT, IF YOU ARE LIKE ME. BUT I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE ANY MORE PRESUMPTUOUS IF PAUL IS, AND THAT WAS THE REASON FOR THE SEEMING QUALIFICATION. >> Doug: IT'S INTERESTING. YOU USED THE TERM SEVERAL TIMES, PRESUMPTUOUS, PRESUMPTION, AND THEY USED TO TALK ABOUT THE SIN OF PRESUMPTION. SOMETIMES WE DON'T, SEEMS LIKE, REALLY HEAR ABOUT THAT ANY MORE. AND PEOPLE SAY, IF KNOWS I'M BASICALLY A GOOD GUY AND HE'S ALL MERCIFUL, IT WILL BE OKAY. BUT RATHER THAN SAYING, YOU CAN'T PRESUME NECESSARILY THAT YOUR MOTIVES ARE CLEAR ENOUGH THAT GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU, IF YOU DON'T TAKE THE ACTION FOR ASKING FOR THAT FORGIVENESS. >> Father: SO, THERE'S TWO CONDITIONS THAT ARE THERE. AND THE FIRST THING IS, WE DON'T KNOW OUR FUTURE. SO, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO 10 YEARS FROM NOW. BUT I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, I THINK I'M MEETING THE CONDITIONS THAT THE LORD HAS ASKED. I'M STAYING WITHIN THE SACRAMENTS OF THE CHURCH, I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW MY BEST TO FOLLOW HIS WAYS. AM I PERFECT IN FOLLOWING HIS WAY? NO, I'M NOT PERFECT. I MAKE MISTAKES ALL THE TIME! JUST ASK THE STAFF THAT ARE AROUND ME. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHEN I DO MAKE MISTAKES, I GO TO CONFESSION PERIODICALLY AND I'M ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS RIGHT AWAY OF THE PEOPLE THAT I HAVE OFFENDED AND OF THE LORD, OF COURSE. I HAVE THE STRONGEST OF IMAGINABLE HOPES. BUT THE PROBLEM WITH PRESUMPTION IS, YOU MIGHT STOP TRYING. AND SINCE WE DON'T KNOW OUR FUTURE. AND PRESUMPTION CAN PUT YOU INTO SORT OF AN IDLENESS WHERE YOU STOP TRYING TO STAY ON THE ROA, YOU STOP TRYING TO GET TO CONFESSION AND YOU STOP ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS. AND YOU JUST, YOU KNOW, BECOME, ACEDIA COULD TAKE OVER, THE SPIRITUAL SLOTH. AND WORST, YOU COULD SAY, OH, I'M FORGIVEN ANYWAY, WHY GET TO CONFESSION. YOU KNOW, I CAN GO TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST ON OR OFF. AND YOU KNOW, YOU FORGET ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE ABSOLUTELY NEED THIS GRACE IN ORDER TO PURIFY OUR HEARTS EVER MORE DEEPLY. SO, THE PROBLEM, IT'S A TWO-FOLD PROBLEM. THE FIRST IS, WE DON'T KNOW THE FUTURE. AND PRESUMPTION CAN MAKE US REALLY SPIRITUALLY LAZY OR SLOTHFUL OR EVEN WORSE, IT CAN MAKE US FALSELY BELIEVE THAT INTO OUR FUTURE, WE ARE JUST SET EVEN WHEN WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY ACTIONS TO STAY ON THE ROAD, ANY ACTIONS TO KNOW THE LORD EVER MORE DEEPLY AND ANY MORE TO CALL ON OUR SACRAMENTS AND PRAYERS, ANY ACTION TO START A PRAYER LIFE OF ANY KIND. YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU ARE JUST ERODING YOUR FUTURE. AND THAT'S WHY PRESUMPTION IS A BIG PROBLEM. SO, IT'S JUST BEST TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS I'M DOING WHAT I THINK THE LORD IS ASKING OF ME, YOU KNOW, I REALLY HAVE THE FIRMEST HOPE THAT IN HIS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND MERCY, HE REACHES DOWN LIKE THE PRODIGAL SON AND SAVE ME. >> Doug: EXACTLY. AND CONTINUE, LIKE ST. PAUL SAYS, FINISH THE RACE, AS THEY SAY. WE DON'T WANT TO BE A CATHOLIC COUCH POTATO WITH THESE THINGS NOW. >> Father: RIGHT. >> Doug: NEXT UP, ANOTHER TOPIC THAT YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT. HI, FR. SPITZER, YOU HAVE EXPLAINED WHY YOU THINK ABOUT 70,000 YEARS AGO MAN RECEIVED HIS SOUL. POPE PIUS XII SAID WAS OK FOR CHRISTIANS TO BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW ADAM AND EVE FIT INTO THE EVOLUTION PROCESS? HOW WE HAVE EVOLVED THROUGH EVOLUTION, AND AT THE SAME TIME, EVE WAS MADE FROM ADAM'S RIB? JOHN, DELRAY BEACH, FLORIDA. >> Father: JOHN, BEING MADE IN A FASHION FROM THE RIB IS NOT THE SIGN OF GOD'S PRESENCE IN THE CREATION PROCESS. WHAT THAT C SIGNIFIES IS THAT GD MADE MAN AND WOMAN IN A SENSE THAT THE COMPLIMENTARITY BETWEEN THEM WOULD NOT ONLY BE ATTRACTIVE BUT THE COMPLIMENTARITY WOULD BE FULFILLING AND EACH COULD BECOME A HOME FOR EACH OTHER IN THE COMPLIMENTARITY BETWEEN THEM. THAT'S WHAT THAT IS REFERRING TO. SO, GOD HAS TWO ACTIONS THAT TAKE PLACE IN THE EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS. THE FIRST ACTION, THE MOST OBVIOUS ACTION IS WHAT I DRAW ATTENTION TO CONTINUOUSLY, NAMELY, HE GIVES US A UNIQUE TRANS-PHYSICAL SOUL. RIGHT? REMEMBER WHEN I TALKED ABOUT ALL OF THESE POWERS THAT WE HAVE, ABSTRACT MATHEMATICAL POWERS, ABSTRACT CONCEPTUAL POWERS FOR SIN TACTICALLY MEANINGFUL LANGUAGE A SOUL THAT WE CONCEIVE FROM NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES AND TERMINAL LUCIDITY FROM THE STUDIES. LIKELY, YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU SURVIVE BODILY DEATH, NOT ONLY SURVIVE IT BUT SURVIVING IT IN A WAY THAT ENHANCES IT AFTER THAT BODILY DEATH, THAT PHYSICAL DEATH. SO, WE HAVE A LOT OF CHARACTERISTICS THAT POINT TO THE EXISTENCE OF OUR SOUL. AND THAT SOUL, I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, THINK THERE'S MORE THAN ENOUGH EVIDENCE IN THIS AGE OF RATIONALITY OF EMPIRICAL KNOWLEDGE AND SCIENCE TO VALIDATE THE FACT THAT WE DO HAVE A TRANS-PHYSICAL SOUL. NOW, A TRANS-PHYSICAL SOUL IS EXACTLY THAT. AND IT'S NOT GOING TO COME FROM A PHYSICAL ORGANIC PROCESS. BECAUSE THIS CANNOT PRODUCE A REALITY, IT'S A METAPHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITY. SO, THE POINT IS, GOD WHO IS A TRANS-PHYSICAL CAUSE WILL HAVE TO DO IT. SO, THAT'S THE FIRST THING. GOD HAS TO GIVE US THAT SOUL. AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK OCCURS 70,000 YEARS AGO. THAT'S WHEN THERE'S A RADICAL TRANSFORMATION OF WHAT WE CALL HOMO SAPIEN SAPIENS WHO HAVE THE GENETIC CHARACTERISTICS OF WHAT WE CALL MITOCHONDRIAL EVE AND Y-CHROMOSOME ADAM. THAT'S THE GENETIC ANCESTORS, 200,000 YEARS AGO. AND THOSE GENETIC ANCESTORS THAT I CALL ENSOULED ADAM AND EVE. THEY ARE JUST OUR GENETIC ANCESTORS. I DO THINK THAT THERE'S ANOTHER ADAM AND EVE WHICH MEANS, FIRST MAN AND FIRST WOMAN, THAT'S WHAT IT REFERS TO. THAT'S WHAT THE NAMES REFER TO ESSENTIALLY. AND THE FIRST MAN AND THE FIRST WOMAN ARE, FOR US, OUR REAL PARENTS, THEY HAVE A SOUL AND THEY WERE GIVEN THAT SOUL BY GOD. NOW, THINK IT'S PERFECTLY CONSISTENT WITH CATHOLIC AND CHRISTIAN REVELATION, NO QUESTION, THAT THE LORD COULD USE AN EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS THAT GOES THROUGH NOT JUST 200,000 YEARS OF HISTORY BUT USE AN EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS THAT GOES THROUGH 200 MILLION YEARS OF EVOLUTIONARY DEVELOPMENT, ET CETERA. AND IN FACT, 2 BILLION, IF YOU WANTED TO PUT IT THAT WAY, OF EVOLUTIONARY DEVELOPMENT. TO THE POINT WHERE YOU HAVE AN EXCEEDING WELL DEVELOPED FRONTAL CORTEX AND CEREBRAL CORTEX. THAT'S WHAT IS GOING TO BE RECEIVES THE SOUL. RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A WELL-DEVELOPED CEREBRAL CORTEX AND FRONTAL CORTEX, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO IMMEDIATE THE POWERS OF THIS SOUL. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THE CEREBRAL EQUIPMENT, THE GRAY MATTER, THE NEUROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE BRAIN TO NOT ONLY RECEIVE A SOUL BUT TO IMMEDIATE ALL THE THINGS THAT THE SOUL DOES, PRODUCING CONCEPTUAL IDEAS, HAVING TRANSCENDENTAL IDEAS AND HAVING ABSTRACT MATHEMATICAL CAPABILITY, HAVING AN AWARENESS OF NOT ONLY AN AFTER LIFE BUT DEITIES THAT ARE BEYOND THIS WORLD. THIS CAPACITY TO HAVE CONSCIOUS AND REFLECT UPON MORAL BEHAVIOR. THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THAT WE DO THAT CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY A PHYSICAL PROCESS, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS SELF REFLECTIVITY. SELF CONSCIOUSNESS. AND THIS IS A HUGE THING. WHICH BY THE WAY, PEOPLE LIKE DAVID CHALMERS AT OXFORD UNIVERSITY, THEY BASICALLY CANNOT, THEY HAVE WRITTEN WHOLE THICK VOLUMES SHOWING, YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN SELF REFLECTIVITY AND THE INWARD SUBJECTIVITY OF HUMAN BEINGS IN TERMS OF AN OUTWARDLY ORIENTED PHYSICAL PROCESS, IT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE. SO, WHEN YOU PUT ALL OF THE EVIDENCE TOGETHER, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, OKAY. YOU GOT TO HAVE NOT ONLY A SOUL, BUT WHAT YOU NEED TO HAVE TOO, A BODY, A BRAIN, FRONTAL AND CEREBRAL CORTEX, THE SOUL'S DESIRES THROUGH THE BODY THAT WE HAVE H, RIGHT, THAT COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD THROUGH PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT. IT'S THAT FRONTAL CORTEX AND CEREBRAL CORTEX THAT TAKES PLACE THROUGH WHAT WE CALL AN EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS. I'M GOING TO ADD THIS IN. THERE'S TWO KINDS OF EVOLUTION. AND I'M ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE SECOND KIND HERE. THERE'S WHAT WE CALL A PURE, MATERIALISTIC, NEODARWINNIAN VIEW OF EVOLUTION. AND THIS IS BASICALLY, GOD HAS NO HAND IN THE EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS AT ALL. SO, GOD DOESN'T FRONT LOAD ANYTHING, 4.6 BILLION YEARS AGO WHEN THE EARTH IS CREATED. HE'S NOT FRONT LOADING ANYTHING OR EVEN 13.8 BILLION YEARS AGO WHEN THE UNIVERSE EXPLODES INTO BEING, RIGHT? GOD DOESN'T FRONT LOAD ANYTHING. GOD IS NOT PRESENT GUIDING US, LIKE, IN CONCEPTION OF, SAY, PIERRE CHARREDIN, LIKE, GOD IS THE FINAL CAUSE DRAWING HUMAN EVOLUTION OUT OF THINGS OR THE EFFICIENT CAUSE GOD FRONT LOADS EVERYTHING 13.8 BILLION YEARS AGO INTO THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE THAT NOT ONLY METABOLIC AND BIOLOGICAL LAWS BUT THE LAWS OF SENSITIVE AND RATIONAL SELF PSYCHOLOGY OR PRE PROGRAMMED, OR BOTH. AND THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THAT IN PRE DARWINIAN EVOLUTION. AND I DO NOT HAVE THAT VIEW OF EVOLUTION. I HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A THEISTIC VIEW OF EVOLUTION. IT'S CALLED THEISTIC EVOLUTION AND THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THIS. AND I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO ALL OF THE VIEWS. BUT ONE OF THE VIEWS IS THE FINAL CAUSE VIEW. ANOTHER ONE IS THE EFFICIENT CAUSE VIEW. AND ANOTHER ONE IS, YOU HAVE BOTH ORTHO AND NO, MA'AM O GENESIS, ALMOST LIKE A FINAL CAUSE AND THE PNEUMO, EFFICIENT CAUSE AT THE BEGINNING. AND ORTHO PNEUMO, IT'S FRONT LOADING AND GUIDING IT. AND THESE THINGS, LOTS OF THEISTIC EVOLUTION. AND THE LAST THING I WANT TO SAY HERE, LOOK, THE MAJORITY OF SCIENTISTS AS I SAID MANY TIMES, ACCORDING FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE POLL, 51% OF SCIENTISTS ARE THEISTICS. AND THAT 51 PERCENT OF THOSE THEISTIC SCIENTIST CERTAINLY BELIEVE IN A TRANS-PHYSICAL SOUL AS WELL. I'M GOING TO SAY THAT I THINK A LOT OF THEM ARE THEISTIC EVOLUTIONARY THEORISTS AND BY THE WAY, THINK THIS IS THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS. THERE'S A LOT OF SURVEY DATA THAT GOES INTO THIS AS WELL. SO, THINK THIS IS A PERFECTLY PLAUSIBLE POSITION, CATHOLICS CAN BELIEVE, BY THE WAY IN THEISTIC EVOLUTION. OBVIOUSLY WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN A PURELY MATERIALISTIC, DARWINIAN VIEW OF EVOLUTION WHERE GOD HAS TO BE HANDS OFF. LAST THOUGHT -- PURELY MATERIALISTIC OF DARWINIAN EVOLUTION. EVEN PEOPLE LIKE THOMAS NEIGHEL WHO SAYS, I'M TRYING TO BE AN ATHEIST BUT HE'S HAVING DIFFICULTIES AND HE ADMITS IT. HE SAYS, THIS IS A DIFFICULT POSITION FOR ME TO MAINTAIN. AND ONE OF THE REASONS IS, IN A BOOK THAT HE CALLED, THINK IT WAS CALLED MIND AND COSMOS, BUT THE SUB TITLE IS VERY REVEALING. WHY THE MATERIALISTIC NEODARWINNIAN VIEW OF EVOLUTION IS ALMOST CERTAINLY WRONG WRONG. AND WHAT NAGINEL, TRYING TO BE THIS ATHEIST, NOT AN APOLOGIST FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, BUT HE SAYS, IF YOU SIT OUT THERE AND PLOT OUT ALL OF THE DATA, LOOKING AT THE NUMBER OF THINGS THAT, MOVES THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO JUST CONSTRUCT A SIMPLE PROTEIN LET ALONE A CELLULAR MECHANISM AND OF COURSE, THEN THERE'S THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE A CELL, WE NEED A CELL TO GET THE KIND OF PROTEINS THAT PRODUCE A CELL AND YOU NEED PROTEINS TO CONSTITUTE A CELL TO HAVE A CELL. AND YOU HAVE THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG, AND IT'S IRRESOLVABLE UNLESS SOME OUTSIDE FORCE, NAMELY, GOD, CAN COME IN AND DO THIS. SO, NAGEL IS AT LEAST AN HONEST PERSON SAYING, HEY, YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET ALL OF THOSE STEPS THAT HAVE TO BE COMPLETED, YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET THAT IN 4.6 BILLION YEARS SINCE THE EARTH AND THE SUN HAVE BEEN AROUND, QUITE FRANKLY YOU CAN'T GET IT IN 1 14.8 BILLION YEARS. AND YOU CAN'T GET EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE. YOU CANNOT USE MATERIALISTIC NATURAL SELECTION PROCESS ALONE TO MOVE FROM A SINGLE-CELLED ORGANISM TO A HUMAN BEING. YOU WILL NEVER DO IT. IN A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. SO, YOU GOT A PROBLEM HERE. YOU DON'T WANT GOD TO BE PART OF YOUR PROCESS? THEN, HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? THAT'S THE QUESTION OF THE CENTURY FOR HONEST EVOLUTIONISTS. >> Doug: AND THE QUESTION IS, WHY DO PEOPLE WANT GOD TO BE OUT OF IT? >> Father: WELL, LIKE THOMAS NAGEL, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME REASON HE PREFERS ATHEISM BUT LIKE HE SAYS, HE TRIES TO DEFEND IT. BUT I THINK HE IS STRUGGLING. >> Doug: HOW DOES SOMEBODY FIND MEANING IN LIFE IF THERE'S NO GOD, KIND OF, WHAT IS THERE? WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN? WHAT'S THE MEANING OF ANYTHING? >> Father: I WOULD HAVE TO TELL YOU, THINK IT'S THE QUESTION OF THE CENTURY, DOUG. YOU KNOW, ATHEISTS SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THAT SAME MEANING IN LIFE THAT SAME SENSE OF HUMAN PURPOSE, THAT SAME SENSE OF WHAT OUR ULTIMATE DIGNITY AND DESTINY IS. THEY JUST DON'T HAVE IT AS THEISTS DO. SO, WHEN I CITE THESE VARIOUS PSYCHIATRIC STUDIES LIKE THE ONE FROM THE AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION, THE ONE THAT WAS DONE BY DERVICK AND HER 10 COLLEAGUES, WHICH WAS A VERY GOOD STUDY. IF YOU LOOK AT IT AND COMPARE NON RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED TO RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED, THERE'S A REASON WHY NON RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED -- THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE RELIGION -- HAVE MUCH HIGHER RATES OF DEPRESSION, SUICIDE, IMPULSIVITY, AGGRESSIVITY, FAMILIAL TENSIONS, AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE. WHY IS THAT? MEANING. IN A SINGLE WORD, THEY DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE MEANING AND PURPOSE IN LIFE. SST. AUGUSTINE, SO LONG AGO, IN HIS BOOK, CONFESSIONS, BOOK ONE, PUTS IT FOR THIS WAY. FOR THOU HAS MADE US FOR OURSELVES AND OUR HEARTS ARE RESTLESS UNTIL THEY REST IN THEE. IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT ST. AUGUSTINE IS SAYING IS, GOD MADE US FOR HIMSELF. GOD MADE US TO BE SATISFIED IN OUR TRANSCENDENTAL NATURE BY HIM ALONE. HE ALONE CAN SATISFY US. WE DESIRE PERFECT TRUTH. THERE'S ONLY ONE PERFECT TRUTH BECAUSE THAT'S UNRESTRICTED TRUTH AND THAT'S GOD. ONLY ONE PERFECT LOVE, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S AN UNRESTRICTED LOVE AND THAT'S GOD. SO, PERFECT TRUTH HAS TO BE PERFECT LOVE. AND PERFECT LOVE HAS TO BE PERFECT GOODNESS BECAUSE IT'S AN UNRESTRICTED GOODNESS. AND THE SAM THE SAME THING WITH PLERVEGHT BEAUTY AND PLERVEGHT -- WITH PERFECT BEAUTY AND PERFECT LOVE. AND THE THINK THAT SEAS US, IS PERFECT LOVE, TRUTH, GOODNESS AND BEING. AND THAT'S GOD, GOD ALONE. AND FURTHER, WE NEED AN INTERPERSONAL COMMUNICATION WITH GOD. NOT JUST THE FULFILLMENT FOR THE PERFECT LOVE TRUTH GOODNESS BEAUTY AND BEING. WE NEED HIM. WE NEED HIS PERSONHOOD, HIS DEEP INNER SUBJECTIVITY RELATING TO OUR DEEP INNER SUBJECTIVITY. AND WHAT WE NEED IS GOD, GOD ALONE WILL SATISFY US. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE STATISTICS ONE MORE TIME. IF YOU TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY, IF YOU RIP GOD OUT OF THE EQUATION, YOU NOT ONLY DON'T HAVE MEANING, YOU NOT ONLY DON'T HAVE PURPOSE BUT YOU HAVE PROFOUND EMPTINESS. PROFOUND LONELINESS AND PROFOUND ALIENATION FROM THE TOTALITY AS WELLS FROM YOURSELF. SO, HAVE YOU A BAD STATE OF BEING, NOT ONLY RADICALLY BAD STATE OF BEING BUT A DARK STATE OF BEING. AND THAT DARK STATE OF BEING, I'M JUST PUTTING IT TO YOU, IS NOT JUST LONELY, EMPTY, ALIENATING AND RADICALLY WITHOUT BEAUTY TRUTH GOODNESS BEAUTY AND BEING AND IT'S OPEN TO THE EVIL SPIRIT. I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW. THERE IS AN EVIL SPIRIT. AND THERE'S EVIL SPIRITS. AND THEY ARE DEFINITELY UNDER SATAN. I TELL YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE GOD TO HELP YOU, YOU OPEN YOURSELF UP TO THAT EVIL SPIRIT'S INFLUENCE. HE'S A SEDUCTIVE MASTER. YOU NEED GRACE. YOU NEED HELP. YOU OPEN YOURSELF UP TO HIM. DARKNESS ENTERS. GUILT ENTERS. NOT JUST EMPTINESS, LONELINESS, ALIENATION, BUT GUILT AND DARKNESS, AND EVIL. AND ON TOP OF IT, RADICAL INCOMPLETENESS. THAT'S WHY PEOPLE WHO ARE NON RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED HAVE MUCH HIGHER RATES OF DEPRESSION, FAMILIAL TENSIONS, SUICIDES, THAT'S THE REASON. AND BY THE WAY, MERCERIA, I BELIEVE THE GREATEST BRILLIANT GUY, BASICALLY WRITES AND EDITS THE WHOLE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION BY HIMSELF. AMAZING AMAZING GUY. MERCERIAEL I CAN'T TELLA, HUMAN BEINGS ARE SENSITIVE THAT CANNOT BE REDUCED TO THINGS LIKE FEAR, OR PLEASURE EXPECTATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S COMPLETELY A GENUS UNTO ITSELF. IT'S A UNIQUE KIND OF DESIRE THAT'S ANIMATING THE HUMAN PERSONALITY TOWARD THE SACRED, ANIMATING IT TOWARD ABSOLUTE MEANING, ABSOLUTE MEANING IN OUR LIVES. AND HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE ARE CREATED FOR ULTIMATE AND ABSOLUTE MEANING, WHAT I WAS CALLING PERFECT TRUTH LOVE GOODNESS BEAUTY AND HOME. BUT ALSO, THE PERFECT INNER SUBJECTIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD HIMSELF THAT TAKES AWAY ALIENATION, EMPTINESS, GUILT AND PROTECTING US FROM THE EVIL, THE DARKNESS, BUT HE SAYS, WITHOUT THAT, WE ARE GOING TO BE, NON RELIGIOUS MAN IS GOING TO BE THE MOST ALIENATED CREATURE WHO EVER WALKED THE EARTH, MADE FOR PERFECT RELATIONSHIP AND LOVE WITH GOD. AND SACREDNESS AND HOLINESS AND NOTHING OF IT. WE GET NOTHING OF IT BECAUSE WE TURN IT OFF AT THE BEGINNING AND WE SAY, DON'T KNOW ABOUT GOD. DON'T KNOW ABOUT HIM. GOING TO LIVE MY LIFE WITHOUT HIM. BOY, WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU NOT ONLY GIVE YOURSELF A FRONTAL LOBOTOMY YOU GIVE YOURSELF A SOUL LOBOTOMY BUT YOU TAKE THE REST OF YOUR ANIMATING FEATURES OF YOUR EMBODIMENT AND BRAIN AND YOU GIVE THAT A LOBOTOMY ALONG WITH IT. AND THAT'S WHY YOU ARE DEPRESSED, THAT'S WHY YOU ARE OPEN TO EVIL IMPULSES. AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE ALIENATION ON A GRAND LEVEL AND THIS IS WHY YOU FEEL COMPLETELY INCOMPLETE, LOSE YOUR SENSE OF HOPE, LOSE YOUR SENSE OF ULTIMATE PURPOSE AND DIGNITY. THAT'S WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE SUICIDE RATES JUST GO RIGHT THROUGH THE CEILING. MY LAST POINT. THERE'S A 51% INCREASE IN SUICIDES IN THE LAST 15 YEARS AMONG OUR YOUNG PEOPLE BASICALLY FROM 15-30-YEARS-OLD. AND IN A 46% INCREASE IN THE DEPRESSION RATE OVER THE SAME PERIOD WITH THE SAME GROUP, CORRELATES PERFECTLY WITH THE LOSS OF GOD AND THE RISE OF EGO COMPARATIVE HAPPINESS TO TAKE THE PLACE OF GOD. AND THE COMBINATION OF EGO COMPARATIVE HAPPINESS TAKING THE PLACE OF GOD, AND THE LOSS OF GOD ITSELF, WHO IS ACHIEVING MORE, LESS, MORE POWER, LESS POWER, WHO HAS MORE INTELLIGENCE, LESS INTELLIGENCE, ET CETERA. WHEN WE COMBINE THE TWO THINGS, LITTLE WONDER OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SITTING THERE WITH A 51% INCREASE IN SUICIDE RATES AND 46% INCREASE DEPRESSION. WE NEED TO GET THEM OUT OF THE EGO COMPARATIVE HAPPINESS AND GET THEM OUT OF THE SMART PHONES, SOCIAL MEDIA AND ONLY EXACERBATES THIS COMPARATIVE HAPPINESS IDENTITY. AND NOT ONLY ARE THEY GOING TO LOSE HOPE, THOSE LITTLE HUMAN BEINGS ARE GOING TO LOSE HOPE BUT THE CULTURE IS GOING TO COLLECTIVELY GOING TO LOSE HOPE. WE NEED RELIGION AND WE NEED GOD, EVEN THE CULTURE NEEDS RELIGION OTHERWISE IT CAN'T COME INTO ITS IF YOU WILLMENT. >>ND AT GREAT FEAR WITH MOST THINGS PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT'S A FACT UNTIL IT'S GONE. AND THEN THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY OF RECAPTURING IT RIGHT AWAY AND DEALING WITH THE DOWN SIDE THAT THERE'S A MITIGATING FACTOR TO SOCIETY, THINKING THAT EVERYBODY IS NATURALLY GOOD AND DOING THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE THEY DECIDED IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MORE QUESTIONS AS WE BLEW THROUGH THE BREAK THERE! DEAR FATHER SPITZER, WHAT DOES JESUS MEAN IN MARK 8:34 WHEN HE SAYS "WHOEVER WANT TO BE MY DISCIPLE MUST TO DENY THEMSELVES"? KAREN >> Father: KAREN, WHAT HE MEANS TO SAY, DURING THIS LIFETIME, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A ROSE GARDEN. YES. WHEN WE GET TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, THE LORD HAS PREPARED FOR US A HEAVEN A BILLION TIMES LOAF LEER THAN LOVELIER THAN ROSE GARDENS AND THAT'S BETTER THAN ALL OF THE BLESSED PEOPLE IN HEAVEN JUST ENJOYING EACH OTHER WITHOUT ANY NARCISSISM TO BLOCK ANYTHING. SO, THAT'S OUR FUTURE. BUT WHAT HE'S TRYING TO SAY THAT, WHEN YOU SAY DENY OURSELVES, WE HAVE TO OVERCOME THE NARCISSISTIC EGOCENTRIC TENDENCY THAT SORT OF DOMINATES OUR VIEW OF THINGS. RIGHT? SO, WE HAVE A LITTLE PROBLEM HERE. AND THE PROBLEM IS, WE'RE BORN INTO THE WORLD WITH SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS AND A WILL OF FREELY CHOOSING EITHER GOOD OR EVIL WITH THAT SELF CONSCIOUSNESS. AND WE HAVE AN AWARENESS OF WHAT GOOD IS, AND AN AWARENESS OF WHAT EVIL IS THROUGH OUR CONSCIOUSNESS. AND WE HAVE AN AWARENESS OF BEING WITH GOD OR NOT BEING WITH GOD THROUGH WHAT I CALL THE NEWMANIST IMPERI DON'T REMEMBER RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, WE HAVE OUR CONSCIENCE WHICH COMES OUT OF OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, AND ALL OF THESE THINGS ENABLE US TO MAKE A FREE CHOICE. BUT WHAT IS JESUS SAYING? THE DENIAL OF SELF IS SAYING, I'M GOING TO PUT MYSELF IN THE BACK SEAT WHEN SOMEBODY ELSE NEEDS ME. I'M GOING TO PUT MYSELF IN THE BACK SEAT SO THAT I DON'T INSULT SOMEBODY ELSE. I'M GOING TO PUT MYSELF IN THE BACK SEAT THAT, MAKE A SACRIFICE SO THAT MY CHILD WILL HAVE SOMETHING THAT HE NEEDS DESPERATELY, BUT IS GOING TO COST ME TO GIVE THAT TO HIM OR HER. ET CETERA. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S THE WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE OURSELVES. IT'S THE WILLINGNESS TO TURN SH OFF THE HERE I AM, I'M ON THE FRONT STAGE, I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF REALITY. NO. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DENY OURSELVES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE OUR EGOCENTRICITY AND SOMEHOW HOLSTER IT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SOMEHOW PUT IT IN ITS PROPER PLACE, RIGHT? SO IT DOESN'T BECOME A DOMINANT, FRONTAL FEATURE IN OUR LIVES. SO, IF WE DON'T GET OUR EGO INTO ITS PROPER PLACE. AND THERE IS A PROPER PLACE FOR EGO. HAVE YOU TO HAVE A PROPER AMOUNT OF SELF ESTEEM AND SO FORTH AND SO ON, BUT YOU CAN'T PUT IT IN FIRST PLACE. SO, IF YOU DON'T GET THAT UNDER SOME WRAPS, IF I CAN YOU PUT IT THAT WAY, THEN GOD IS NEVER GOING TO BE IN THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, YOU ARE. AND MOREOVER, OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T BE IN THE CENTER WHEN THEY NEED TO BE IN THE CENTER FOR THE SAKE OF THEMSELVES OR THE SAKE OF THE FAMILY, OR THE SAKE OF THE CULTURE, YOU WILL NEVER MAKE ANY SELF SACRIFICIAL ACT BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS IN THE CENTER, YOU BUTT EVERYBODY OUT AS IT WERE. YOU TAKE EVERYBODY OUT, RIGHT. AND YOU PUSH THEM OFF TO THE PERIPHERY AND INCLUDING GOD, INCLUDING GREAT AND NOBLE IDEALS, AND INCLUDING THE DESIRE, YOU KNOW, TO EVEN SACRIFICE YOURSELF FOR THE LIFE OF SOMEBODY ELSE. ALL OF THESE NOBLE DESIRES, ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE, AND GOD HIMSELF CAN PUSH IT TO THE PERIPHERY BECAUSE BOB SPITZER AND HIS EGO ARE RIGHT IN THE CENTER, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU, BOB, YOU ARE SO GREAT. NOW, THE POINT THAT I AM TRYING TO GET TO, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN WE HAVE HAD IT. WE ARE GOING TO BE AN INFLUENCE OF AMAZING SELFISHNESS, EVIL, HURT, AND IN EVERY KIND OF UNETHICAL AND MORAL STAND. WE'VE HAD IT. SO, JESUS IS TELLING US, UP FRONT, YOU GUYS, BEFORE YOU GET TO HEAVEN, THERE'S GOING TO BE THIS THING CALLED DENY YOURSELF. THERE'S GOING TO BE THIS THING, GET YOUR EGO UNDER CONTROL. AND HOW DO YOU GET YOUR EGO UNDER CONTROL? SACRIFICE! BY PUTTING SOMEBODY ELSE FIRST. BY TAKING THE REFLECTIVE ACT OFF OF ME AND WANTING TO DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR THE WORLD OR FOR SOMEBODY ELSE, OR FOR MY FAMILY MEMBER OR MY COMMUNITY OR MY CHURCH OR FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD, RIGHT? SO, THE POINT I'M TRYING TO GET TO AS I SAY, CLEARLY, WE NEED SELF DENIAL. AND SELF DENIAL IS OUR PATHWAY TO TRUE HAPPINESS. IT'S OUR PATH WAY TO LOVE. OUR PATH WAY TO MORAL ACTION AND TO THE GOOD. IT'S OUR PATH WAY TO GOD. THAT'S ALL HE'S SAYING. AND HE MEANS, DENY OURSELVES SECONDLY, TAKE UP OUR CROSS. >> AND RUNS COUNTER TO THE PSYCH PSYCHOLOGICAL APPROACH WHAT WE HEAR ABOUT IN THE CULTURE TODAY. UNFORTUNATELY. SO, WE HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION AND THEN WE'LL WRAP UP THIS TOPIC THAT WE HAD. THIS KIND OF ROLLS INTO IT. DEAR FATHER, WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN THE PRIEST SAYS "THROUGH HIM AND WITH HIM AND IN HIM"? I HAVE ASKED MANY PRIESTS BUT GOTTEN VERY BRIEF ANSWERS. THANK YOU, TOM. >> Father: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S TALKING ABOUT TWO THINGS. IT'S TALKING ABOUT NOT ONLY THE HOLY EUCHARIST, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS BEING HELD UP, RIGHT. BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE GLORY OF GOD, THROUGH HIM, WITH HIM, AND IN HIM, IN THE UNITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, ALL GLORY AND HONOR IS YOURS ALMIGHTY FATHER. SO, OKAY. WHO IS THE HIM? THE HIM IS JESUS CHRIST. SO, IT'S THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, WITH JESUS CHRIST, AND IN JESUS CHRIST, ALL GLORY AND HONOR IS YOURS, ALMIGHTY FATHER. SO, IT'S THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER IN A PERFECT UNITY, CORRECT? SO, WHEN THAT HAPPENS. IT'S NOT JUST THE FATHER ALONE WHERE ALL GLORY RESIDES. IT'S THROUGH JESUS, WITH JESUS, AND IN JESUS THAT ALL THE GLORY RESIDES WITH THE FATHER. SO, THAT'S THE FIRST THING. THAT'S THE GLORY. BUT NOW WE HAVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST, BECAUSE RIGHT, THIS IS ENDING THE EUCHARIST IISTIC -- EUCHARISTIC PRAYER AND THERE'S THE MINOR ELEVATION OF THE HOST THAT FOLLOWS FROM THAT. SO, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WE'RE ALSO CALLING ATTENTION NOT JUST TO THE DOXOLOGY AND TO THE GLORY OF GOD, WITH THE FATHER AND JESUS IN THEIR UNITY AND LOVE, THAT'S WHAT THE HOLY EUCHARIST IS, TOO. THAT'S AN ACT OF COMPLETE SELF SACRIFICIAL LOVE WHICH IS WHO JESUS IS. AND IT'S THE GLORY OF THE LOVE OF GOD THE FATHER, AS WELL AS THE THOUGH GLORY OF THE SON, JESUS CHRIST. AND HE'S BRINGING THE DOXOLOGY, BRINGS BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. THE EUCHARIST IS THE GLORY OF GOD. THE GLORY OF GOD IS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF HIS SON GIVEN IN COMPLETE SELF SACRIFICE WHICH NOW UNIFIES US AND BRINGS ALL OF US INTO THE GLORY OF GOD. BRINGS ALL OF US INTO THE ETERNAL LOVE OF GOD, BRINGS ALL OF US INTO HIS MYSTICAL BODY. AND BRINGS ALL OF US THROUGH THE MYSTICAL BODY, INTO THE LOVE, THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER WITH, THROUGH, AND IN HIS SON. SO THAT'S THE SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. >> Doug: OKAY. VERY GOOD. AND FOR YOU, THAT WAS BRIEF. SO, THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD, TOO! [LAUGHTER] HOPEFULLY THEY ARE SATISFIED WITH YOUR ANSWER. OKAY. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE EUCHARIST, COMMEMORATION IN THE FIRST CENTURY. I THOUGHT WE'D ROLL INTO THAT. TALKED ABOUT THE IMPACT THE JEWISH PRIESTHOOD HAD ON THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE PRIESTHOOD IN THE EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH, SO WHEN DID THE CONTENT OF -- CONCEPT OF THE MAGISTERIAL PRIEST COME TO THIS, FIRST SELF SACRIFICE AND THE CLEAR INDICATION IS 180AD AND ST. IRENEAUS, AND SERVING GOD AND THE ALTER IT CONTINUALLY. ALSO, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE YEAR 336AD, THE CANONS OF HIPPOLYTUS, AND THEN TALKING ABOUT THE THINGS. SO HOW DO WE SAY TO PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CATHOLIC AND THEY SAY, SEE. THIS EARLY CHURCH, THE FIRST HUNDRED YEARS, THEY DIDN'T REALLY HAVE THESE THINGS. THEY WERE ALL ACCRETIONS ADDED ON BY THESE BISHOPS, QUOTE UNQUOTE. AND THEN CERTAINLY WE'RE ROLLING INTO THE ROMAN EMPIRE, CON STANTINE IS IN CHARGE AND TURNING THIS SIMPLE CHRISTIAN RELIGION INTO AN ORNATE PAGAN RITUAL. WHAT DO WE SAY TO THAT? >> Father: FIRST OF ALL, THE NAME CAN CHANGE BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE REALITY DOES NOT CHANGE. SO I THINK BEFORE CHRISTMAS, WE WENT THROUGH THE FIRST PART OF THIS. AND WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DIDACHE, SO LET'S JUST GO THROUGH. OKAY. THERE'S THREE NAMES GIVEN TO WHAT WE NOW CALL PRIESTS. SO, THERE'S THE PROPHETS, RIGHT? THAT'S THE EARLIEST TERM THAT'S USED. AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY IN A MOMENT. NEXT IS PRESBYTER. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT. AND THAT COMES VERY CLOSE UPON THE PROPHETS. AND THEN, THERE'S THE WORD PRIEST. AND SO, YOU THINK, WAIT A MINUTE. THE PRIEST IS AN ACCRETION. NO, IT ISN'T. THE COMMON FACTOR THROUGHOUT IS SACRIFICE. AND THE SACRIFICE OF THE ALTAR, THAT'S WHAT PRIESTS DO. SO, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE WORD PROPHETS, FIRST. REMEMBER, IN PAUL'S LIST, IN HIS FIRST LETTER TO THE CORINTHIANS, CHAPTER 12. APOSTLES COME FIRST AND THEN THE SECOND CHARISMATIC GIFT IS PROPHETS. NOW, THE WORD PROPHET DOESN'T JUST MEAN A PERSON WHO FORE TELLS THE FUTURE. A PROPHET IS ALSO ONE WHO CAN SPEAK IN THE PLACE OF GOD. SO, A PROPHET THEN IN THE VERY EARLY CHURCH, IN 33AD, RIGHT AFTER JESUS RESURRECTION, THEY ARE ALREADY CELEBRATING THE HOLY EUCHARIST. THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. AND THE MAIN THING IS, THOUGH, WHEN THEY ARE CELEBRATING THE HOLY EUCHARIST, WHO IS IT THAT YOU ARE PRONOUNCING THE WORDS OF INSTITUTION, DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME. JESUS INSTRUCTS THE APOSTLES TO DO THIS. WE KNOW FROM THE DIDACHE, GOING BACK TO 90AD, IT'S APOSTLES AND PROPHETS. SO, ESSENTIALLY, THEN THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS ARE THE ONES PRONOUNCING THE WORDS. AND WHY ARE THE PROPHETS INCLUDED ALONG WITH THE APOSTLES? BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT, THE CHARISM, AND THE AUTHORITY TO PRONOUNCE THE WORDS TO SPEAK IN THE PLACE OF JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SON OF GOD. HE'S GOD. SO, THEY HAVE THAT PROPHETIC CHARISM. SO, THEN THOSE PROPHETS AND THOSE APOSTLES, THAT'S THE FIRST NAME THAT THEY GIVE THEM. THEY AVOID THE NAME PRIEST BECAUSE THAT WOULD CREATE A CONFUSION WITH THE JEWISH PRIESTHOOD WHICH IS A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF PRIESTHOOD FROM THE PRIESTHOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT FOR CLARIFICATION. BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A TENSION BETWEEN THE SYNAGOGUEONED THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. THEY HAVEN'T SEPARATED YET. THAT'S A PROBLEM RIGHT THERE. AND THERE'S A TENSION WITHIN THE NON SEPARATION, SO, THE WORD PRIEST IS AVOIDED, BUT THE WORD PROPHET, THE ONE WHO WILL SPEAK ON BEHALF OF GOD TO UTTER THE WORDS OF THE AMNESIS, REMEMBRANCE OF THE WORDS IN THE EUCHARISTIC CEREMONY THAT TRANS SUBSTANTIATES THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST. THAT'S DONE. THEN, PAUL HAS ANOTHER WORD WHICH HE ALSO INCLUDES. NOW, PAUL'S WORD FOR IT IS PRESBYTER, WHICH MEANS ELDERS. AND IN ORDER TO BE AN ELDER, YOU WOULD HAVE TO -- WELL, OF COURSE, AN APOSTLE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO BE A SUCCESSOR TO THE APOSTLES AND TO THE PROPHETS. SO, IF YOU WEREN'T A SUCCESSOR, YOU WOULDN'T BE AN OVERSEER, YOU WOULDN'T BE AN ELDER. HOW DO YOU BECOME A SUCCESSOR TO THE APOSTLE AND THE PROPHETS? BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS. NOW, THERE'S A WHOLE DESCRIPTION OF THAT THAT WE HAVE TO GO INTO IN PERHAPS THE NEXT EPISODE. BUT THE LAYING ON THE HANDS IS THE WAY THAT ONE PERSON WHO PAUL, WHO CONSIDERS HIMSELF AN APOSTLE BECAUSE HE HAS SEEN THE RISEN CHRIST, BEEN COMMISSIONED BY THE RISEN CHRIST. HE CAN LAY HIS HANDS ON OTHER PEOPLE. AND HE CAN THEN GIVE THEM THE CHARISM AND THE HOLY SPIRIT TO BE THAT PROPHET, TO BE THAT PERSON. SO, ONCE THAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, THAT PERSON IS AN ELDER, AN OVERSEER IN SOME WAY IN THE CHURCH WITH THE CHARISM AND THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT. SO, PAUL USES THAT WORD PRESBYTER BUT IT HAS ALSO, THIS IS THE ONE WHO BASICALLY CONDUCTS THIS, AND BASICALLY IS DOING THE REMEMBRANCE CEREMONY AND WORDS THAT BRINGS THE REAL BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST INTO IT. AND BY THE WAY, THE REAL BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST, HOW DO YOU READ CORINTHIANS 10, IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT? JOHN 6 IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE REAL PRESENCE OF THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST. I MEAN, EARLY CHURCH, EVEN JUST TO IMPLY THAT THE EARLY CHURCH DIDN'T BELIEVE IN THE REAL PRESENCE OF JESUS, IT'S A HEAD SCRATCHER HOW ANYBODY INTERPRETED THE TWO SCRIPTURES IN ANY OTHER WAY. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO BACK FLIPS, YOU KNOW, IN COMPLETE NON SEQUITURS TO GET OUT OF THIS. OKAY. HERE'S MY POINT AGAIN, THE CENTRAL POINT. THAT IS, PRESBYTERS, THE PROPHETS, THE DESIGNATED SUCCESSORS TO THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE WHO WERE DESIGNATED BY JESUS TO DO THE AMNESIS, AND THEY GOT THE HOLY SPIRIT, THEY HAVE THE CHARISM THROUGH THE LAYING OF HANDS TO DO IT. THEN, LATER, AS WE SAW, IN ABOUT 180, CERTAINLY IRENEAS USING IT IN HIS BOOK AGAINST HERESIES. AND YOU GO, WELL, THAT'S ALMOST 200 YEARS LATER THAT THIS WORD PRIESTHOOD COMES INTO BEING. NO. THAT'S THE FIRST EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE OF THE USE OF PRIESTHOOD IN THIS SENSE. BUT IT HAS BEEN THERE ALL ALONG. BUT WHAT LINKS IT? WHY AM I SO SURE THAT THE EARLY CHURCH BETWEEN THE DIDACHE 90 AND 180 ACTUALLY BELIEVED THIS? BECAUSE OF THE WORD SACRIFICE. SACRIFICES TAKE PLACE ON AN ALTAR. OKAY. WE'RE COMING OUT OF A JEWISH CONTEXT HERE. HEY, A SACRIFICE AND THEN IT TAKES PLACE ON AN ALTAR. WHO IS AT THE ALTAR OF SACRIFICE. HELLO! PRIESTS ARE THERE! SO, THE PERSON WHO IS DOING THE WORDS OF THE AMNESIS AT THE ALTAR DOING THE SO SACRIFICE, TT PERSON IS BASICALLY, EVEN THOUGH THEY DIDN'T CALL HIM PRIEST, PRESBYTER, APOSTLE, I CONTINUE ERRANT APOSTLE, THAT'S RIGHT. THEY HAVE THE FUNCTION OF A PRIEST. BUT HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THAT WORD SACRIFICE IS BEING USED OF THE PROPHETS AND THE APOSTLES? THAT DIDACHE, THAT'S A VERY EARLY CHURCH WORK AROUND 90AD, MAYBE AS LATE AS 180AD AND PROBABLY NOT PAST THAT. THE DIED CHAY USING THAT WORD SPECIFICALLY AND TALKING ABOUT THE PURITY OF THE SACRIFICE THAT WARRANTS THAT THERE BE A CONFESSION OF SINS PRIOR TO THE RECEPTION OF THE EUCHARIST FOR THE PURITY OF THE SACRIFICE. AND THAT'S PUT INTO THE SAME DIDACHE, SAME WORK WHERE HE MENTIONS, WHO IS ACTUALLY PERFORMING THE CEREMONY. IT'S THE APOSTLES, THE ITINERANT APOSTLES AND THE PROPHETS. THEY ARE THE ONES DOING IT. SO, WE KNOW THE TERM THAT THEY ARE USING, WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE PERFORMING A SACRIFICE. SO, THERE'S JUST NO DOUBT THAT THE SACRIFICE ULTIMATELY IS TAKING PLACE MUCH LIKE THE JEWISH PRIESTHOOD, BUT IT'S NOT THE JEWISH PRIESTHOOD NOR HOLOCAUST OF AN ANIMAL OFFERING. IT IS JESUS HIMSELF ON THE ALTAR OF SACRIFICE WHICH IS VERY CLEARLY FROM 1 CORINTHIANS 10 AND 11, VERY CLEAR FROM JOHN 6 AND VERY CLEAR AS WELL FROM THE DIED CHAY. AND SO, WELL, IT'S GOING ON IN THE 09 -- 90'S, WHY DO I BELIEVE THERE'S ABANDONED. NOBODY USED THAT IN 09 WHEN THE DIED CHAY WAS WRITTEN OR IN 180 WHEN IRENEAS IS TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE PRIESTHOOD AND THE SACRIFICE OF THE PRIESTHOOD AND DOING SACRIFICE AT THE ALTAR CONTINUOUSLY WHEN IRENEAS IS TALKING ABOUT IT. HEY, LOOK, YOU CAN EVEN SEE THE SAME LINGUISTIC PARALLELS. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? IF THE LATER CHURCH IS MAKING THIS UP AS A LATER ACCRETION, THAT'S A HEAD SCRATCHER TO ME. THE LANGUAGE IS THE SAME, BACKGROUND IN JESUS IS THE SAME. COME ON. I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO DO INTELLECTUAL BACK FLIPS TO GET OUT OF THE REAL BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST, THE SACRIFICIAL OFFERING AND THE PRIESTHOOD. THESE ARE FUNCTIONAL PRIESTS IN 90AD AND THEY ARE FUNCTIONAL PRIESTS, BY THE WAY IN 1 CORINTHIANS 10 IS WRITTEN WHICH IS IN 50AD AND FUNCTIONAL PRIESTS IN 33AD WHEN THE EARLY CHURCH IS BEGINNING, AMNESIS AND THE CEREMONIAL EUCHARISTIC TRADITION. >> Doug: WITH THOSE POINTS QUITE PROUDLY MADE. WE HAVE TO CALL IT A DAY. THANK YOU, FATHER, FOR DEFENDING THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH AS YOU DO EVERY WEEK. LEAVE US WITH YOUR BLESSING. >> Father: YES. PLEASE, BOW YOUR HEADS AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. AND MAY THE WONDER OF THE EUCHARISTIC SACRIFICE WHICH WE EXPERIENCE ENTER INTO AND RECEIVE IN OUR LIVES TRANSFORM US AS OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST INTENDED, TRANSFORM US IN OUR HEARTS TO HAVE US KNOW OF HIS PRESENCE, AND TO IMITATE AND BECOME LIKE HIS VERY HEART AND TO ENTER INTO COMMUNION WITH HIM AND TO ENTER INTO COMMUNION WITH ONE ANOTHER, UNTO OUR ETERNAL SALVATION, MAY ALL OF THOSE GRACES AND THE RECEPTION OF THE EUCHARIST DESCEND UPON YOU EVERY TIME YOU RECEIVE MEANINGFULLY AND WORTHILY IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN. THANK YOU, FATHER SPITZER. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. AND OF COURSE, DON'T FORGET ALL OF FATHER SPITZER'S RESOURCES MANY AVAILABLE THROUGH THE ewtnRC.com AND DVDS, PROGRAMS. WE HAVE A WONDERFUL PROGRAM COMING UP ON BOOK MARK, VINNIE FLYNN AND ERIN FLYNN TALKING ABOUT THE EUCHARIST AS WELL. AND WE HAVE TRANSUBSTANTIATION TO. AND ALL MONTH NEXT MONTH PRO LIFE MONTH HERE AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, SAME TIME, SAME INTERSECTION. [MUSIC]
