♪ >> Doug: HELLO AND ONCE AGAIN, WELCOME TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" WHERE FAITH AND REASON INTERACT AND IDEAS ABOUT THE WORLD COLLIDE. I'M DOUG KECK AND I'M YOUR HOST COMING TO YOU RIGHT FROM THE HEART OF IRONDALE, ALABAMA WHEN MOTHER ANGELICA BEGAN WAY BACK WHEN. AND WE'RE JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AWAY FROM THE ONE WEEK AWAY FROM THE ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF HER PASSING AWAY. AND WE'RE HAVING THESE SHOWS, RIGHT NOW, SITTING HERE TALKING TO FATHER SPITZER ABOUT HIS CONTEMPLATION. EMAIL QUESTIONS AT spitzersuniverse@ewtn.com AND USE FACEBOOK THAT WE HAVE. THE ADDRESSES ARE RIGHT ON THE SCREEN. AND AS WELL AS, CHECK OUT TWITTER. AND FOR ALL THINGS RELATING TO SPIRITS, GO TO spitzersuniverse@ewtn.com. GO TO THE WEST COAST AND LOOK AT FATHER SPITZER ON THE WELCOME STUDIO, HAVING THE PLEASURE TO SPEAK TO HIM, TALKING TO HIM ABOUT WONDERFUL THINGS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH. THIS WEEK, WE'RE TALKING CONTEMPLATION AND WHAT EXACTLY THAT MEANS. HOW ARE YOU DOING, FATHER? >> Father: I'M DOING GREAT, DOUG, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> Doug: HAVE YOU BEEN CONTEMPLATING THE PROGRAM? ANTICIPATING IT? SO, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANTICIPATING AND CONTEMPLATING? >> Father: WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION TO START WITH. CONTEMPLATION HAS HAD SO MANY DEFINITIONS OVER THE CENTURIES. THE GREEKS THOUGHT CONTEMPLATION WAS A HIGH STATE OF THEORIZING. AND THEY ARE USED TO CALLING TEORARIA, THINKING OF THE ULTIMATE IN METAPHYSICS. FIRST CAUSES AND ULTIMATE MEANINGS AND SO FORTH, SO ON. AND IN A SENSE, THAT CONTEMPLATION DOES HAVE THAT SENSE TO IT, THAT NOOSE IN GREEK. AND ALSO, INTELLECTUS IN LATIN MEANS A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS. CERTAINLY, IT CAN BE NOT JUST THINKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANT OR HIGHEST THING OF LIFE. IT COULD ALSO BE JUST WITHDRAWING FROM THE PRACTICAL CONCERNS, RIGHT? PRAXUS AND THINKING DAY TO DAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT I HAVE TO DO, CALLING ME TO, AND GOD CALLING ME ON A HIGHER LEVEL. WHEN CHRISTIANS TALK ABOUT CONTEMPLATION, THEY REALLY DON'T TALK ABOUT EMPTYING THEMSELVES OR THE HIGHER THINGS OF LIFE OR ULTIMATE MEANING. WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN IS BEING IN RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. AND THE CONTEMPLATIVE ACT IS ORIENTED TOWARD A RELATIONSHIP. AND OF COURSE, CONTEMPLATION ALWAYS GOES BACK TO ACTION. SO, WE VIEW OURSELVES AS CONTEMPLATIVES IN ACTION. EVEN, THE MYSTICS, RIGHT? THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHRISTIAN MYSTICISM AND MYSTICISM IN OTHER RELIGIONS IS THAT CHRISTIAN MYSTICS ALWAYS RETURN TO THE WORLD. EVEN THERESA OF AVILA SAYS SHE'S GOING TO BE A SPIRITUAL LEADER. AND ALL OF THE GREAT MYSTICS ALWAYS COME BACK TO SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCE WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD. THE IDEA, REALLY THIS CONTEMPLATION WITH GOD. AND IT'S TRYING TO GET TO A STATE WHERE WE CAN JUST BE WITH THE LORD IN TOUCH WITH THE LORD, ALMOST IN AN INTUITIVE CONTACT WITH HIM WHERE WE KNOW IN OUR HEARTS HIS LOVE AND WHAT THAT MEANS. AND ALL THE SENSE THAT MEANS. ONE CORINTHIANS 6:13, LOVE IS PATIENT, LOVE IS KIND. AND YOU KNOW, HOW TO CONTEMPLATE THIS AND HOW TO BRING IT BACK TO THE WORLD. WE'RE ALMOST ABSORBED WITH THE LORD. ALMOST IN THAT STATE WHERE WE ARE CONNECTING WITH HIM EXCEEDINGLY DEEPLY AND EM PATHETICALLY, RIGHT? BUT YOU JUST DON'T START THERE. THAT VERY, VERY DEEP CONNECTION. AND THAT EMPATHETIC CONNECTION WITH THE LORD OR HIS WHOLE ESSENCE BEGINS TO RUB OFF ON US WHERE WE BEGIN TO KNOW HIM IN OUR HEARTS AND WANT TO IMITATE HIS WAYS AND BEING SIMPLY BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH HIM. AND RIGHT? THAT'S KIND OF ARRIVING AT A HIGHER STATE OF CONTEMPLATION. BUT THAT'S KIND OF A CHRISTIAN IDEAL. SO, THE THING TO THINK ABOUT, YES, THERE'S THIS DEEP EMPATHETIC CONNECTION WITH GOD, DEEP APPRECIATION BEING ALMOST AWED BY GOD, BEHOLDING HIM. NOT JUST APPRECIATING HIM BUT BEHOLDING HIM IN A SENSE OF AWE, WONDER, AND OF COURSE, CONNECTING HIM WITH EMPATHY AS A FRIEND AND ALSO, AS FATHER, RIGHT? AND IN THAT DEEP CONNECTION RELATIONSHIP, LIKE ANY FRIEND. HE BEGINS TO RUB OFF ON US. YOU KNOW, YOU HANG AROUND WITH SOMEBODY LONG ENOUGH AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU START TAKING ON THEIR MANNERISM AND IF YOU ADMIRE THEM, IF YOU LOVE THEM, IF YOU ARE IN WONDER OF THEM, YOU START BECOMING LIKE THEM. AND OF COURSE, YOUR HEART IMITATES THEIR HEART AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT JOHN HENRY NEWMAN MEANT BY HIS PHRASE, HEART SPEAKING TO HEART. EMPATHETIC CONNECTION, A CO-NATURAL EXPERIENCE OF THE HEART OF THE HEART OF THE OTHER PERSON. CO-NATURAL. AND YOU BEHOLD IT, EMBRACE IT, ADMIRE IT. THAT WHICH THE IDEAL OF CONTEMPLATION. WE DON'T JUST GET THERE. CHRISTIAN CONTEMPLATION IS UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL, UTTERLY GOES BACK TO THE WORLD FROM WHENCE IT CAME BECAUSE WE USE, WHEN WE PICK UP GOD'S HEART, WE WANT TO BRIT BACK TO THE WORLD AND SHARE IT WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WHO IS THIS LORD OF LOVE WHO HAS COME TO BE WITH US. SHARE THE HEART OF CHRIST IN A WE'VE EXPERIENCED. NOT JUST THOUGHT ABOUT. BUT WHO IS THIS HEART OF THE LORD THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED. SHARE IT WITH THEM. SO, WHERE DO CHRISTIANS START THE CONTEMPLATIVE LIFE. THE MAIN THING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET FANCY. THE FIRST THING, USE REALLY COMMON PRAYERS AND USE THE PSALMS, RIGHT? SO, OUR OBJECTIVE IN CONTEMPLATION IS TO COME INTO THAT WONDER AND BEHOLDING OF THE LORD THAT AD HIRING HIM, RIGHT? AND WHERE DO YOU START THIS STATE OF ADMIRATION OF AWE, WONDER, LOVE, OF CONNECTION OF EMPATHY, WHERE DO YOU START FROM. WELL, HYMNS OF PRAISE ARE REALLY GOOD PLACES TO START W. WHEN YOU LOVE SOMEBODY OR YOU ARE APPRECIATE AND IN AWE, THESE PSALMS ARE JUST SO BEAUTIFUL. ESPECIALLY THE NATURE OF THEM. SO, PRAISE BE GOD FOR THE SKY, BIRDS, DOLPHINS. PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE SOUL HE HAS GIVEN ME, THE SOUL THAT'S ABLE TO CONTEMPLATE HIM, THE SOUL THAT'S ABLE TO PENETRATE THE MYSTERIES OF THE WORLD. PRAISE BE TO GOD FOR THE FREEDOM THAT I HAVE. PRAISE BE TO GOD FOR THE HISTORY WHICH I AM BORN. PRAYS BE TO GOD FOR THE INSPIRATION, PROTECTION AND GUIDANCE THAT HE GIVES ME. PRAISING THE LORD FOR HIS NATURE, RIGHT? SO, WE CAN, THE DIVINE PRAISES, RIGHT? BLESSED BE GOD, BLESSED BE HIS HOLY NAME, BLESSED BE TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN. PRAISING THE LORD IS A PLACE TO START. WHEN WE MEAN THAT GENUINE PRAISE WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, LORD, WE THINK YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL. WE ABSOLUTELY KNOW YOUR LOVE. AND WE KNOW THAT YOU LOVE US. AND OF COURSE, YOU HAVE GIVEN US ALL THESE GOOD GIFTS. THEY ARE SO MANIFEST. AND GIVING PRAISE IS A HUGE THING. SECOND WAY TO START THE CONTEMPLATIVE LIFE. SIMPLE PHRASE, THANK YOU. IGNATIUS CALLS THIS A GIGANTIC PRAYER OF THANKSGIVING. THANK YOU, LORD, FOR ALL OF THE THINGS YOU GIVE TO ME, TO THE PEOPLE AROUND ME, TO ALL MY FRIENDS, MY PARENTS, THE FAMILY THAT I WAS GIVEN, THE GIFTS THAT I HAVE BEEN GIVEN, TO THE WORK THAT I HAVE, THE ABILITY TO SERVE YOUR KINGDOM. YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT MAY BE TO GIVE GOD THANKS AND THEN GIVE GOD THANKS EVEN FOR THE MYSTERY OF HIS BEING. THE WONDER THAT HE IS, AND THE CREATION OF THE WORLD AROUND US. SO, WE CAN AGAIN, THAT IS A WAY OF STARTING CONTEMPLATION, PRAISING GOD. >> Doug: WHEN YOU SAY THAT, AND THINK OF GRATITUDE, HUMILITY, IS THAT PART OF IT, THAT WHOLE IDEA OF DEALING WITH ONE'S OWN HUMILITY IN ORDER TO CONTEMPLATE GOD? >> Father: AT ONCE, YOU KNOW YOU ARE CREATURE AND YOU ALSO KNOW THAT YOU ARE BELOVED. THAT'S THE PARTICULAR REVELATION OF JESUS, RIGHT. IN ALL RELIGIONS, ALL HUMAN BEINGS KNOW THEY ARE CREATURE, GOD IS CREATOR. GOD IS THE MYSTERIOUS INCOMPREHENSIBLE SUPERCEDING ONE. AND WE ARE THE CREATURE THAT HE HAS MADE THAT IS DOING THE BEHOLDING OF THE MYSTERY. BUT IN CHRISTIANITY, WE ADD THE IDEA OF, WE ARE BELOVED! RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT WE'RE NOT JUST A CREATURE. WE'RE A BELOVED CREATURE, DEARLY BELOVED CREATURE. WE ARE AN INESTIMABLY CREATURE. AND GOD, OF COURSE HAS OTHER DESIRE, NOT JUST FOR OUR SALVATION BUT TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH US AS WE HAVE A DESIRE TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. SO, THIS IDEA, AGAIN, WILL THE BEGINNING OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE IS THAT KIND OF SENSITIVITY TO OUR CREATURELINESS AND OUR BELOVEDNESS. AND YOU GOT TO BE HUMBLE IN ORDER TO HAVE CREATURE COMFORT, I MEAN, AS RUDOLPH OTTO SAYS. AS SOON AS YOU THINK YOURSELF AS GOD, THERE COULD BE A HUMILITY PROBLEM THERE. SO, THE KEY FEATURE, BEGIN EVER AND ALWAYS, BY ACKNOWLEDGING THE GOODNESS AND BEAUTY OF GOD, MAJESTY OF GOD, THE WONDER OF GOD. AND THANKING GOD FOR ALL THE GIFTS THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN. THIS IS A STANCE OF GRATITUDE WHICH IS OF COURSE, A STANCE AT ONCE OF HUMILITY. BUT ALSO, A STANCE OF CREATURELINESS. AND ALSO A STANCE OF WONDER BEFORE THE MAJESTY OF GOD. AND A STANCE OF AWE BEFORE THE MAJESTY OF GOD. AND THESE THINGS ARE THE STARTING POINTS OF THIS INTIMATE, EMPATHETIC CONNECTION THAT WE WANT WITH GOD SO THAT WHEN WE ARE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE BASICALLY ENJOYING HIM. >> Doug: VERY GOOD. >> Father: AND I WANT TO SAY ONE THING. IN A PREVIOUS EPISODE, I TALKED ABOUT THE MOST IMPORTANT WAY TO INTRODUCE YOUR CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER IS TO SAY, LORD, I KNOW YOU ARE HERE AND I KNOW THAT YOU LOVE ME. AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY KEY, ACKNOWLEDGE THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, ACKNOWLEDGE HIS LOVE FOR US, AND TO EXPRESS OUR LOVE BACK IN TURN TO HIM. AND HYMNS OF PRAISE, HYMNS OF THANKSGIVING, HYMNS OF JOY OR REJOICING. AND SO FORTH. EVERY COMMON PRAYER CAN BE TURNED INTO A CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. >> Doug: LET'S GET TO SOME QUESTIONS HERE. PEOPLE WRITE TO US AND WE WANT TO GET TO THOSE. WHILE WATCHING A RECENT EPISODE, I WAS CONTEMPLATING SIX CRITERION THAT YOU RECENTLY DISCUSSED ON HOW GOD ANSWERS OUR PRAYERS. PLEASE CLARIFY HOW GOD'S ANSWER WILL NOT UNDERMINE OTHER'S SALVATION, AND WILL NOT DETERMINE OTHER'S FREEDOM. GOD BLESS YOU! FRANCESCA. >> Father: THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. YOU ARE RIGHT, SIX CRITERIA. FIRST OF ALL, GOD NEVER UNDERMINES OUR SALVATION OR RELIEVE A SUFFERING THAT'S IN SOME WAY HELPFUL TO OUR SALVATION. REMEMBER, WE TOUCH THE LIVES OF OTHERS, NOT JUST FAMILY MEMBERS OR COLLEAGUES, BUT IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS, WE'RE TOUCHING PEOPLES' LIVES. AND SOMETIMES, OUR SUFFERING, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, CAN HAVE SUCH A PURIFYING AND GOOD EFFECT ON US THAT WE ACTUALLY IN TURN HELP SOMEBODY ELSE'S SALVATION. SO, GOD IS NOT GOING TO TAKE AWAY SUFFERING THAT'S GOING TO HELP US HELP OTHERS TO SALVATION. YOU KNOW, IF GOD SEES THAT OUR SUFFERING CAN BE A POINT OF IDENTIFICATION FOR SOMEBODY ELSE WHO IS SUFFERING, THEY CAN LOOK AT HOW OUR FAITH INFLUENCE SUFFERING AND MAYBE THOSE OTHER PEOPLE CAN THEN SAY, OH, THIS IS TERRIFIC. RIGHT. I CAN DO IT. IF SPENCER CAN DO IT, I CAN DO IT. SO, HE'S NOT GOING TO TAKE AWAY THE SUFFERING. THAT WOULD TEND TO UNDERMINE A PATH TO SALVATION AND THE LORD GOING TO LITERALLY ALLOW ME TO EFFECT AS MANY PEOPLES' SALVATION AS POSSIBLE. AND IF SUFFERING IS A GOOD ROUTE TO DOING IT, AND FREQUENTLY IT IS, BECAUSE SUFFERING REALLY THROUGH THAT VULNERABILITY IN WEAKNESS IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF OUR ACTIONS, IT TOTALLY IMPROVES THE WAY IN WHICH WE LOVE OR THE WAY IN WHICH WE MANIFEST OUR FAITH, THE DEPENDENCE ON GOD. AND IT EFFECTS THE WAY WE EFFECT OTHER'S SALVATION. SO, THAT'S THE KEY IDEA. THE SECOND QUESTION, PART OF YOUR QUESTION IS, WELL, HOW DOES THIS EFFECT OTHERS. HOW IS IT THAT OUR SUFFERING CAN EFFECT OTHERS' FREEDOM. AND THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE, GOD IS NOT GOING TO SIT THERE AND INTERRUPT THE WHOLE CYCLE OF NATURAL CAUSATION BY CAUSING A MIRACLE EVERY FIVE SECONDS. IF WE'RE SUFFERING, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO FIND THE OPPORTUNITIES IN THE SUFFERING, FOLLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH THAT SUFFERING. RIGHT? THAT'S GOING TO BE MORE BENEFICIAL TO US THAN GETTING PROBABLY A MIRACLE INSTANTLY, IN MY CASE, THANK GOD I DIDN'T GET A MIRACLE, THE 101 TIMES THAT I ASKED FOR IT, I GOT IT ON THE 102ND TIME. SO, YOU KNOW, THE MIRACLE IS SLIGHT. IT WASN'T A MEGA MIRACLE, RIGHT? SO, THE IDEA IS, IF WE'RE GETTING MIRACLES, YOU KNOW, EVERY FIVE SECONDS, AGAIN, THAT UNDERMINES OTHER PEOPLES' FREEDOM. THEY GO, GEE WHIZ, WHY DIDN'T I GET A MIRACLE. WAIT A MINUTE. MAYBE I'LL GET A MIRACLE AS OFTEN AS SPITZER IS GETTING A MIRACLE. SO FORTH, SO ON. AND WE HAVE ALL KIND OF EXPECTATIONS THAT GO OUTSIDE OF THE NATURAL ORDER. AND IN ORDER FOR YOU TO KNOW WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIKE IN THE NEXT FIVE MINUTES, YOU HAVE TO KNOW IN SOME SENSE WHAT NATURAL CAUSATION NORMALLY PORTENDS. AND IF YOU GET A MIRACLE EVERY FIVE SECONDS, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY HAD WHY. IN WHICH CASE YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE FREE. SO, GOD IS NOT GOING TO UNDERMINE THAT CAPACITY OF OTHERS' FREEDOM THROUGH ALLEVIATION OF YOUR SUFFERING, SAY, THROUGH A MIRACLE. >> Doug: OKAY. QUESTION NUMBER TWO. FATHER SPITZER, I VALUE YOUR OPINION AND I WORSHIP GOD AS A CATHOLIC. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION AND HOLISTIC THERAPY? DO YOU RECOMMEND ANY, AND WHY OR WHY NOT? THANK YOU, BEN. SO, THE FIRST ONE, WE SHOULD TAKE APART AS TRANSCENDENTAL CONTEMPLATION, SOMETIMES WE HEAR IT, A QUESTION IN THE CHURCH CALLED CENTERING PRAYER, THE KIND THAT MIXED UP WITH THIS, AND THAT. AND MAYBE YOU CAN PULL THAT APART FOR US. >> Father: YEAH, AS SAID, CHRISTIAN CONTEMPLATION IS NOT A KIND OF MEDITATION THAT HAS SELF IN THE CENTER. OR EVEN THE ANNIHILATION OF SELF IN THE CENTER. SO, GENERALLY IT IS NOT A PRAYER WHERE I AM TRYING. I AM TRYING IN SOME SENSE TO PURGE MYSELF FROM SOMETHING OR PURGE SELF FROM MYSELF. OR TO PURGE SOMETHING WITHIN MYSELF. OR EVEN JUST TO GET FREE OF LIFE'S CONCERNS. THERE ARE PRACTICES OF TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION, YOGA AND SO FORTH AND SO ON THAT KIND OF CAN FREE PEOPLE FROM A LOT OF CONCERNS. BUT FRANKLY, I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT. I THINK IN CHRISTIAN MEDITATION, YOU HAVE A DOUBLE THING THAT'S GOING ON. YOU ARE BRINGING YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD INTO THE PROCESS OF FREEING YOU FROM THOSE LIFE'S CONCERNS. WE HAVE SOMETHING FROM THE REVELATION OF JESUS, A GRACE FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT, A GRACE FROM JESUS WHO CAME TO BE INCARNATE WITH US AND LITERALLY HELPING US KEEP FREE. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT OURSELVES. WHY WOULD WE WANT TO GET INTO WHAT I CALL A DISCIPLINED STRUCTURE OF SELF ABNEGATION OR ABNEGATION OF DESIRE WHICH IS FOCUS ON ITSELF OR ABNEGATION, IF I CAN GO AND BE WITH GOD, MY FRIEND, THE ONE WHO LOVES ME, THE ONE THAT I ADMIRE, I THINK, I LOVE, AND HE CAN HELP ME TO HAVE THAT PEACE AND THAT FREEDOM WHICH WILL ALLOW ME TO GET DISTANCE FROM THE CONCERNS OF TODAY, ALLOW MY MIND TO BE CLEAR SO I CAN THINK ABOUT HIS WILL. I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT GREAT THINGS. I WANT TO THINK ABOUT GREAT THINGS IN THE CONTEXT OF HIS WILL. OF BEING WITH HIM. HE'S THE ONE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE WITH. HE'S THE SOURCE OF ALL WISDOM. HE'S THE SOURCE OF ALL MYSTERY AND FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, IT'S, LIKE, TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T PER SE INVOLVE THE LOVING GOD AND HIS CONPANIONSHIP WITH ME, MY THANKSGIVING, PRAISE, MY AWE OF HIM AND TRYING TO ALLOW HIM EVER MORE DEEPLY INTO MY LIFE TO FIND MY PEACE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT OPERATE THAT WAY. YOU KNOW, NOT JUST TO ME, SECOND BEST. IT'S LIKE FIFTH BEST. IT'S VERY PARTIAL. AND THERE IS A SIDE PROBLEM WITH IT AS WELL. AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM OF SELF DECEPTION THAT'S IN IT WHEN YOU ARE USING A CONTEMPLATIVE PRACTICE THAT'S ORIENTED TOWARD THE SELF OR SELF ABNEGATION AND YOU ARE RELIANT ON YOUR OWN POWERS TO GET THERE. I CAN TELL YOU THIS. WHEN I RELY ON MY OWN POWERS, THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. I CAN BE DECEIVED, I CAN ACTUALLY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, BE VERY SELFISH AND HAVE MY OWN LITTLE AGENDA WHICH SOMEHOW CREEPS INTO MY PROFOUND CONTEMPLATION. AND THEY GET IN THERE THROUGH WHAT'S CALLED THE UNCONSCIOUS MIND. AND DO NOT FOR A SECOND UNDERVALUE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE UNCONSCIOUS WHICH BRINGS ME TO A THIRD LIMITATION OF THE TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION PRACTICE. REMEMBER, WHEN YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY TURNING OFF THE CONSCIOUS MIND, YOU ARE LITERALLY CREATING A FREE ROAD FROM THE UNCONSCIOUS TO YOUR PSYCHE. AND THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF IN YOUR UNCONSCIOUS MIND. GOOD SYMBOLS, BAD SYMBOLS, HORRID SYMBOLS. WHATEVER. BUT WHEN YOU CREATE A FREE ROAD WITHOUT CONSCIOUS BLOCKS FOR THE UNCONSCIOUS TO MOVE IN. JUST AS IF TO ALLOWING DREAM WORLD TO COME UNMITIGATED INTO YOUR PSYCHE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET IN THERE. AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN, THAT YOU HAVE THIS TRULY GREAT CONTROL OVER SUCH THINGS. IT HAPPENS. ABSOLUTELY IT HAPPENS. SO, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, I WOULD JUST HAVE TO SAY, STICK WITH CHRISTIAN CONTEMPLATION. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF THE UNCONSCIOUS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE RATIONALIZATION, SELF DECEPTION THAT COMES FROM A SELF-FOCUSED KIND OF MEDITATION. EVEN IF IT'S FOR THE ABNEGATION AND YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL DEALING WITH THE SELF DECEPTION OF SELF. AND FINALLY, WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO FIND THE PEACE THAT YOU ARE STRIVING FOR, WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO FIND THE DETACHMENT THAT YOU ARE STRIVING FOR, CLARITY THAT YOU ARE STRIVING FOR WITH YOUR BEST FRIEND, WITH YOUR COMPANION WHOSE THE SOURCE OF ALL LOVE, COMPANION, AND MYSTERY. WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO DO IT THAT WAY. I CAN TELL YOU THIS RIGHT NOW. I HAVE NOT, FOR A SINGLE MOMENT, ONE MICRO SECOND OF A REGRET FOR HAVING DONE IT THAT WAY. BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT DISAPPOINT. YOU WANT PEACE? BE WITH GOD. YOU WANT PEACE? SAY THE HAIL MARY. YOU WANT PEACE? TELL THE LORD, I KNOW YOU ARE PRESENT. I KNOW YOU ARE HERE. AND I KNOW YOU LOVE ME. AND THEN JUST SAY, WHATEVER PSALM OF THANKS, WHATEVER PRAYER OF THANKSGIVING THAT YOU WANT. AND YOU KNOW, THE PEACE WILL COME. JUST REFLECTING ON GOD'S LOVING AND HEAVENLY PRESENCE, SACRED PRESENCE, GOOD PRESENCE AS YOU REFLECT ON THESE THINGS. AND I'M TELLING YOU, YOU ARE INSIDE THE MYSTERY OF GOD'S GOODNESS AND LOVE, AND THE PEACE THAT YOU GET IS GENUINE. NOT THE PEACE OF SELF RELIANCE BUT THE PEACE OF GOD WITH WHOM I AM CONNECTED AND TO WHOM I AM DEPENDENT. >> Doug: OKAY. VERY GOOD. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK HERE AND GIVE YOU A CHANCE FOR PEACE AND GET SOME WATER. GET YOU READY FOR PART TWO. I DON'T WANT TO BE ACCUSED OF DRYING YOU OUT AS I HAVE IN THE PAST. STAY WITH US. FATHER SPITZER JUST AHEAD ANSWERING MORE QUESTIONS CONTINUING TO TALK ABOUT CONTEMPLATION HERE IN THE MIDST OF FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE. STAY WITH US. MORE AHEAD. ♪ ♪ >> Doug: YOUR FAITH COLLIDES WITH FATHER SPITZER'S ANSWERS RIGHT HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME OFF THE LAST THING WE TALKED ABOUT, CENTERING PRAYER AND YOU TALKED TRANSCENDENTAL PRAYER AND IS THERE A DIFFERENCE WHEN WE TALK OF SOMEBODY EMPTYING THEMSELVES VS. QUIETING THEM, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE? >> YEAH, LET ME GO TO CENTERING PRAYER AND GO TO THE SECOND QUESTION. CENTERING PRAYER, IF CENTERING PRAYER IS LEANING TOWARD CENTERING ON THE SELF, FORGET IT. THAT KIND OF CENTERING PRAYER REALLY IS IN MY VIEW, A KIND OF EMPTINESS IN MANY WAYS. AND IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE. BUT IF THE CENTERING PRAYER IS QUIETING ONE'S SELF TO CENTER ON GOD, CENTER ON HIS LOVE, ON HIS GOODNESS, TO CENTER ON HIS WILL, ON THE CENTER RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, YEAH, YOU COULD SAY CENTERING PRAYER IN THE SENSE OF QUIETING MYSELF TO CENTER ON GOD IS A GOOD THING. TO CENTER ON MYSELF IS NOT A GOOD THING. AND IN FACT, IT'S NOT PRAYER. PEOPLE DECEIVE THEMSELVES AND SAY, OH, IF I CENTER ON MYSELF, I CAN HAVE MUCH MORE SELF KNOWLEDGE. I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THIS. THE LEAST AMOUNT OF SELF KNOWLEDGE I GET IS FROM MYSELF, BY MYSELF. WHEN I'M BY MYSELF, I GOT TO TELL YOU. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST THE PROBLEM OF ALL MY HIDDEN AGENDAS, AND THEY ARE MANY, BUT ALL OF MY HIDDEN ULTERIOR MOTIVES, AND THEY ARE MANY. BUT EVERY DISTRACTION THAT POSSIBLY CAN COME ALONG EITHER INTELLECTUAL OR EMOTIONAL LEVEL, ALL KIND OF THINGS. BUT WHEN I'M BY MYSELF, JUST A HOST OF THINGS. AND IF I TALK MYSELF INTO THINK, GEE WHIZ, I'M IN A STATE OF REAL WISDOM RIGHT NOW. AND I CAN TELL YOU FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WISDOM ALL BY MYSELF IS THE GREATEST DELUSION THAT THERE EVER WAS. WISDOM COMES IN RELATION TO US. OF COURSE, WIRE SELF CONSCIOUS. OF COURSE, WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO REFLECT ON THINGS AND FREELY DELIBERATE ON THINGS. BUT WE DO IT IN RELATION TO OTHERS. HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT AUTONOMOUS. THIS IS THE GREATEST MYTH THAT WAS EVER DEVISED SINCE -- WELL, SINCE THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION, THAT WE CAN BE COMPLETELY AUTONOMOUS INDIVIDUALS. PERSONS ARE INTERPERSONAL, WE'RE BORN INTO THE WORLD INTERPERSONAL. IF A MOTHER IGNORES THE CHILD, THE CHILD WILL DIE, PERIOD. NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING, YOU CAN FEED THE CHILD, PUT HIM ON A BOTTLE. BUT IF THE MOTHER IGNORES THE CHILD, THE CHILD WILL DIE FOR LACK OF AFFECTION. NOT A PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL THING. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. >> Doug: WE EVEN HAVE A DIAGNOSIS TODAY THAT YOU END UP WITH SOME OF THOSE THINGS. I THINK IT'S CALLED RAD. BECAUSE OF THE WAY CHILDREN WERE BORN, I KNOW THAT SOMETIMES IN EASTERN EUROPE AND OTHER PARTS WHERE ORPHANS AND ADOPTIONS WENT THROUGH, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE NURTURING, THERE WAS ACTUALLY A CLINICAL AFFECTATION, THE LACK OF ABILITY TO CONNECT. >> Father: THAT'S RIGHT. AND IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONNECT OR EMPATHIZE WITH ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, THEY CAN BECOME QUITE SOCIOPATHIC AND THAT'S PROBLEMATIC. OR THEY CAN JUST ISOLATE. IN ANY CASE, IT'S NOT GOOD. SO, JUST GETTING BACK TO THE IDEA OF QUIETING ONE SELF TO CENTER ON GOD, GREAT THING. BUT IF I AM JUST CONCENTRATING IN SOME WAY TO CENTER ON MYSELF, AS A CENTER OF OF MY UNIVERSE INSTEAD OF CENTERING ON GOD IN MY UNIVERSE, THAT LEADS TO A WHOLE LOT OF PROBLEMS. AND THE WHOLE LOT OF PROBLEMS COME, THE SELF DECEPTION, SELF AGGRANDIZEMENT COMES TO THE THINGS, UNBEKNOWNST TO ME. WE NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO HAVE WISDOM AND NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO EXPERIENCE LOVE. AND WE NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO EXPERIENCE THE PROFOUND REALITY OF OURSELVES. WITHOUT THE INTERPERSONAL, WE ARE NOT JUST 1/10, BUT WE'RE 1 BILLIONTH OF OURSELVES. AND THE IDEA OF AUTONOMOUS SELF. WE JUST HAVE TO PUT THAT ONE IN THE GRAVE. IT NEVER WAS TRUTH. AND ITS LED TO ALL KINDS OF ENLIGHTENMENT AND DECEPTION. SO COMPLETELY -- >> Doug: DO YOU SEE THAT AS A STRONG CONCEPTION BETWEEN THAT AND PRIDE? >> ABSOLUTELY. YES, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT SOMETHING, CLICK. AND YOU KNOW, BOTH SCIENTIFIC ENLIGHTENMENT AND THE PRO STANT REFORMATION AND OF COURSE, YOU HAVE SECULAR HUMANISM AND BRANCHED OFF THROUGH IT AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE FOCUS ON A PERSON BY HIMSELF AND FOR HIM SELF, I MEAN, YOU HAVE THESE INTERRUPTIONS FROM GREAT POETS, JOHN DUNN SCREAMING, NO MAN IS AN ISLAND. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES AND GABRIEL MARCEL, SCREAMING, BUT WE HAVE TO GET OUR ACT TOGETHER. >> SIMON AND GARFUNKEL'S SAID IN THE 1970'S, I'M A ROCK, I'M AN ISLAND. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DEALING WITH. >> Father: WELL, WOW, WASN'T THAT REALLY PROFOUND! >> BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER, TOO. VERY POPULAR IN THE 1970'S, IN MOST RELIGION CLASSES AS I RECALL IT. >> Father: WELL, LOVE MEANS YOU NEVER HAVE TO SAY YOU ARE SORRY. >> Doug: THERE YOU GO. LOVE STORY. WHAT A WONDERFUL MOVIE. I'M OKAY, YOU ARE OKAY. AND EXCEPT I'M MORE OKAY THAN YOU ARE. I'M A LITTLE MORE OKAY THAN YOU, NOW THAT WE THINK BIT. WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH SPECIAL TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION, SEEMS LIKE YOU GET INTO THE NEW AGE THING WHEN IT'S KIND OF ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE REALIZING ULTIMATELY SO OR YOU ARE GOD LIKE OR YOU ARE GOD IN SOME WAY AS OPPOSED TO THE ABILITY TO CONNECT TO DISTINCT GOD THE FATHER. >> THE PHRASING IS PERFECT, THE IDEA OF EMPTYING YOURSELF WITH ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE OR BUDDHIST APPROACH. EMPTYING YOURSELF TO EMERGE, AS SPECIAL, WHICH WOULD BE CALLED STOIC CONTEMPLATION. AND REALLY, THEY ARE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIANITY. OUR ATTEMPT IS NOT TO BE EITHER AT THE CENTER OR TO BE ANNIHILATED. STOIC CONTEMPLATION PUTS SELF IN THE CENTER AND THE BUDDHIST CONTEMPLATION WANTS TO BECOME ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE AND KIND OF A MODERNISM AND WE DON'T BEHOLD, WE GO RIGHT IN BETWEEN. GOD CREATED US AS INTERPERSONAL AGENCIES. AND WE HAVE OUR OWN SELF CONSCIOUSNESS. WE HAVE OUR OWN ACTS OF FREEDOM. AND 0 GOD DOESN'T INTEND FOR US TO ANNIHILATE THOSE THINGS BUT RATHER IN RELATION WITH HIM AND TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHERS THROUGH LOVE. THAT'S THE OBJECTIVE OF CONTEMPLATION FOR THE CHRISTIAN. NOW, BEING ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE OR IDEA OF BEING ONE AS EMERGING OUT OF THE UNIVERSE. IN EITHER CASE, THE CHRISTIANS DO NOT GO THERE. OUR OBJECTIVE IS LOVE, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING NOT TO BE ANNIHILATED OR SPECIAL. IT'S TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND OTHERS IN THE MOST PROFOUND UNITIVE WAY POSSIBLE BUT NOT IN AN EFFECTIVE WAY. GOD DOESN'T WANT TO ABSORB US. HE WANTS TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH US IN LOVE. >> VERY GOOD. OKAY. NEXT UP. HELLO FATHER, IN FINDING TRUE HAPPINESS, YOU WRITE THAT IGNATIAN CONTEMPLATION IS A WAY OF BECOMING PERSONALLY FAMILIAR WITH THE LORD AND EMBARKING ON A FRIENDSHIP WITH HIM. HOW DO BUSY WORKING PROFESSIONALS, LIKE ME, EMBARK ON THIS PATH PRACTICALLY? LEAH, FROM GEORGIA. SOUNDS GOOD. YOU READ THE BOOK AND YOU SAY, THAT'S GREAT. I'M LIVING IN THE REAL WORLD. HOW IS THAT? >> Father: WELL, THE FIRST THING AS I SAID BEFORE, DON'T GET FANCY. THE FIRST THING IS TO TRY AND TURN SOME SONGS OR COMMON HYMNS LIKE HAIL MARY, OUR FATHER, AS THE BEGINNING VEHICLE TO BEGIN CONTEMPLATIVE LIFE. AND I JUST SAY, THERE IS POSSIBLE WAYS OF DOING IT FOR A BUSY PERSON. AND YOU ARE JUST STARTING TO GO TO SLEEP. AND YOU TAKE OUT YOUR ROSARY, LET'S SAY. AND MARY, I KNOW YOU ARE HERE. I KNOW YOU LOVE ME. LORD JESUS, I KNOW YOU ARE HERE AND I KNOW YOU LOVE ME. HEAVENLY FATHER, YOU BEGIN TO PRAYERFULLY SAY THE HAIL MARY. THAT PRAYERFUL WAY, IT'S A PRAYER OF PRAISE, HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S WORDS OF ELIZABETH AND YOU ARE STILL GIVING HER THE SAME PRAISE ELIZABETH DOES, BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF YOUR WOMB. AND WHEN WE GIVE PRAISE, WE'RE LOVING BACK AND YOU JUST SAY THE WORDS MEANINGFUL. AND THEN YOU CAN ASK FOR THE REQUEST, HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD, PRAY FOR US SINNER, NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH AMEN. SO, THE IDEA IS TO ASK FOR THOSE PRAYERS. ASK FOR MARY'S PRAYERS. AND YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING WITH THE OUR FATHER, SUCH A GOOD CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. DON'T GET FANCY. BUT YOU START OUT THE SAME WAY. LORD, I KNOW YOU ARE HERE. AND I KNOW THAT YOU LOVE ME. AND THEN YOU START OFF, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN. HALLOWED BE THY NAME. IN OTHER WORDS, HOLY, MAJESTIC, AWESOME, WONDERFUL, MYSTERIOUS, LOVELY IS YOUR NAME! A NAME FOR A SEMITE IS ESSENCE, YOUR BEING, YOUR ESSENCE IS LOVELY. IT'S BEAUTIFUL. IT'S MAJESTIC, IT'S GOOD. AND SO, YOU ARE ACKNOWLEDGING THIS. THAT IN ITSELF IS CONNECTING PRAYER, CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET FANCY. JUST SORT OF THAT ACKNOWLEDGMENT. AND THEN THY KINGDOM COME. THERE YOU ARE MAKING THE REQUEST. LORD, I WANT YOUR KINGDOM TO COME TO EARTH BUT I WANT TO GET TO YOUR KINGDOM. IN OTHER WORDS, JUST BE UNABASHED. LORD, PLEASE HELP ME TO GET INTO HEAVEN, BUT WITH YOU! AND GET INTO THE HEAVENLY RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. AND THEN YOU KNOW MY GREAT SPONTANEOUS PRAYER. THY WILL BE DONE. AND I ALWAYS SAY, THY LOVING LA BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. THEN, I SAY, YOU KNOW, GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD. HELP ME GET, I NEED FUNDS TO GET THE MAGIS INSTITUTE GO. AND YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS. I ASK FOR MY WORLDLY NEEDS. >> Doug: NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, RIGHT? >> Father: NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! WE NEED HELP. AND THEN, FINALLY, OF COURSE, I WANT TO BE LIBERATED FROM EVIL. SO, FORGIVE ME OF MY TRESPASSES. PUT ME NOT TO THE TRIAL OR TO THE TEST. BUT DELIVER ME FROM EVIL AND FROM THE EVIL ONE. AMEN. NOW OF COURSE THAT'S THE NEW TESTAMENT VERSION OF THE PRAYER. WE SAY IT, FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES AND WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL. BUT TO SAY THAT PRAYER SLOWLY AND CONTEMPLATIVELY. THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO. DON'T GET FANCY. AND SOMETIMES, YOU ARE GOING TO FALL ASLEEP JUST TRYING TO SAY THE PRAYER MEANINGFULLY. AND YOU ARE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, WITH A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. YOU EVERY CONNECTED WITH GOD AND YOU A ARE THERE ACKNOWLEDGING THE GOODNESS AND MAJESTY OF GOD WHICH IS GOING TO RUB OFF ON YOU. AGAIN, WHY NOT JUST GO THROUGH THE PSALMS OR YOUR MAGNIFICAT OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. AND PICK OUT JUST YOUR 25 FAVORITE PSALMS. THE ONES THAT JUST SPEAK TO YOUR HEART. YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS LOVE THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD, THERE IS NOTHING I SHALL WANT. THINK THERE'S A TERRIFIC PSALM. IF THAT'S ONE OF YOUR FAVORITES, TAKE THAT ONE. PSALM 139, SEARCH ME LORD, YOU KNOW WHICH SIT, WHEN I STAND, YOU KNOW MY ACTION, MY WORDS FROM AFAR. YOU KNOW, EVEN BEFORE THE WORD IS ON MY LIPS, LORD, YOU KNOW I. AND OF COURSE, PICK OUT THE 20, 25 FAVORITE PSALMS THAT YOU HAVE. PUT THEM INTO A CONTEXT, RIGHT? WHERE YOU CAN JUST KNOW THEM. WRITE THEM DOWN. AND IF THERE'S PARTS OF THE PSALM THAT ARE JUST ANACHRONISTIC AND THEY HAVE A REAL RELEVANCE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND JESUS OBVIOUSLY SUPERCEDED THAT IN SOME WAY, SERMON ON THE MOUNT, AND SOME PSALMS HAVE, I WANT TO CURSE MY ENEMIES AND MAKE THEIR CHILDREN GROVEL ON THE GROUND. JUST TAKE IT OUT OF THERE. YOU KNOW WELL THAT'S NOT PART OF JESUS' PREACHING ON THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT WHERE TELLS US NOT TO GET ANGRY, CURSE OUR NEIGHBORS AND SO FORTH. JUST REMOVE THAT STUFF AND JUST CONDENSE THE PSALM. MAYBE TYPE IT OUT, PUT IT IN A FORM OR JUST TAKE IT RIGHT OUT OF GOOGLE VERSION OF THE RSV, RIGHT. AND PUT IT ON TO A PIECE OF PAPER. REMOVE THE THINGS THAT ARE UTTERLY INCONSISTENT WITH THE LORD. AND JESUS, JUST SAY THOSE. ONCE YOU GOT IT DOWN TO 25. YOU CAN JUST PICK TWO OR THREE AND JUST GO THROUGH YOUR LITTLE PSALMODY. EACH TIME. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET FANCY. AND JUST START OFF 15 MINUTES MAYBE WITH A REALLY WELL SAID OUR FATHER AND A VERY WELL SAID -- I ALWAYS PERSONALIZE THE PSALMS AS WELL. SO, I SAY, INSTEAD OF THE LORD WHICH IS A VERY TYPICAL FOR A JEWISH PERSON WHO, RIGHT, THE LORD IS OUT THERE, RIGHT? THIRD PERSON. I ALWAYS SAY, I GOT JESUS. SAY YOU LORD. YOU LORD ARE MY SHEPHERD. YOU, LORD, THEREFORE, THERE IS NOTHING THAT I SHALL WANT. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE PSALMIST HAS MORE, THE LORD. AND TURN IT INTO USE AND THEN THE PSALM CONTINUES, EVEN THOUGH I WALK IN THE VALLEY OF DEATH, I SHALL FEAR NO EVIL BECAUSE, THE PSALMIST SHIFTS NOW BECAUSE YOU ARE AT MY SIDE WITH YOUR ROD AND YOUR STAFF TO HELP ME. SO, I WOULD TRY TO PERSONALIZE THE PSALMS. I PERSONALIZE THE GLORY BE AS WELL IN MY CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. GLORY BE TO YOU, HEAVENLY FATHER AND TO YOU, LORD JESUS, AND TO YOU HOLY SPIRIT. RIGHT? BECAUSE OF COURSE, AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE PRAISING, YOU ARE GIVING PRAISE TO GOD AND IT'S ALL RIGHT FOR US AS CHRISTIANS TO UTILIZE THAT VERY, VERY PERSONAL TOUCH WITH THE LORD. BUT THOSE ARE SOME WAYS THAT I WOULD START. ALWAYS BEGIN WITH, LORD, I KNOW YOU ARE HERE. I KNOW YOU LOVE ME. TAKE THOSE PRAYERS OF THANKSGIVING. OR PRAYING THE PSALMS. TAKE THE OUR FATHER, HAIL MARY, GLORY BE. DO SOMETHING VERY SLOWLY, DEEPLY CONTEMPLATIVELY CONNECTING WITH THE LORD. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE A PURPOSE. YES, THERE ARE PRAYERS OF PETITION. THAT'S GREAT. SO, IF YOU WANT TO SAY PRAYERS FOR CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU NEED, THEN, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND DO IT. YOU KNOW, DO THOSE THINGS. BUT THE CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER CAN BE JUST TO BE WITH GOD. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED. >> Doug: DO YOU THINK SOMETIMES WE MAKE IT -- >> Father: LORD, JUST TO BE WITH A FRIEND. >> AND SOMETIMES WE MAKE IT MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE? >> Father: YEAH, EXACTLY. I REMEMBER MY DAD AND MOM WERE SITTING SIDE BY SIDE ON THE BED. AND THEY WERE READING SEPARATE BOOKS. AND KIND OF ZOOMED INTO THE ROOM. AND I JUST SAID, GOSH, YOU GUYS AREN'T TALKING TO EACH OTHER, NOT DOING ANYTHING TOGETHER. YOU ARE IN YOUR OWN THOUGHT WORLD WITH THESE BOOKS, YOU KNOW. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT? AND MY DAD SAYS, OH, READING A BOOK WITH YOUR MOTHER MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. AND I THOUGHT THAT SORT OF SAYS IT. BECAUSE BEING WITH HER OR IN THIS CASE, BEING WITH GOD, JUST BEING THERE WITH HIM, YOU MAY BE GIVING PRAISE AND SO FORTH. BUT IT'S JUST THAT BEING WITH THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. IT'S COMMUNICATION, HIS PRESENCE AND HIS LOVE BACK. AND IT'S GOING TO TRANSFORM US. IT'S GOING TO TRANSFORM US IN PEACE. BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BRING PEACE IN OUR LIVES. IT'S GOING TO TRANSFORM US IN HIS HEART, HIS CHARITY BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO GET IT BY GIVING PRAISE WE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE TRANSFORMED INTO HIS HEART. SO, THAT'S THE EASY ANSWER. EXACTLY, IN THE BEING WITH. >> Doug: WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS OTHER QUESTION. DID YOUR MOTHER AND DAD READ SIMILAR BOOKS? WHAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WAS HE READING AND WHAT SHE MIGHT BE READING? >> Father: TOTALLY DIFFERENT. MY MOM LIKED ALL KINDS OF RELATIONSHIP BOOKS AND MY DAD LIKED WAR BOOKS, AGENT SPY BOOKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. DIFFERENT GENRE. AND HE LIKED HISTORY BOOKS. AND VERY, VERY DIFFERENT BOOKS MANY. OUR DEN WAS FILLED WITH THAT. AND MY MOM WAS ANALYTICAL, FORMERLY A CHEMIST. AND TO BE HONEST, THEY HAD DIFFERENT TASTES IN LITERATURE. AND THINK READING TO EACH OTHER WAS PROBABLY BEYOND THE PALE. AND YOU KNOW, EXCEPT FOR THEOLOGY OR FAITH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE PROBABLY ENJOYED WHAT EACH OTHER WAS READING. >> Father: HERE'S -- >> Doug: HERE'S ANOTHER EMAIL WE GOT FOR YOU. FATHER, IT SEEMS THAT A BIG REASON THAT ATHEISM HAS BECOME SO WIDESPREAD TODAY IS BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE HAVE THE WRONG IMAGE OF WHO GOD IS. THE VIEWPOINT THAT WANTS TO MARGINALIZE AND RID THE IDEA OF GOD IS ONE THAT DOESN'T VIEW HIM IN TERMS OF PERFECT LOVE, EMPATHY, AND DESIRING A RELATIONSHIP WITH US. TALKING ABOUT -- >> Father: THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. ALONG THE LINES OF WHY ARE THEIR ATHEISTS, I WOULD SAY THAT'S NUMBER TWO IN THE LIST. NUMBER ONE REASON IS SUFFERING WHICH CAN'T BE ACCOUNTED FOR AND WE'RE CHRISTIANS AND WE HAVE A HUGE THEOLOGY OF SUFFERING, ALL OF THE OPPORTUNITIES, ALL THE POSSIBILITIES FOR OFFERING UP OUR SUFFERING IN CONJUNCTION WITH JESUS. ALL OF THE PURIFICATION WE CAN GET FROM FAITH AND LOVE. ALL OF THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR COMPASSION WITH OTHERS. HUGE THEOLOGY OF SUFFERING BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION. AND SO, THE MAIN THING, THE PROBLEM WITH THE SUFFERING REASON FOR ATHEISM IS, IT FEEDS ON ITSELF. I'M AN ATHEIST BECAUSE THE SUFFERING IS INEXPLICABLE. AND BECAUSE OF THE SUFFERING IS INEXPLICABLE AND I'M AN ATHEIST, I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION IN ORDER FOR ME IS TOO HAVE A CHRISTIAN INTERPRETATION OF SUFFERING. IT'S A VICIOUS CIRCLE. I'M NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF IT. I HAVE TO BREAK OUT OF IT AND LOOK FOR JESUS, THE HISTORICAL VALIDATION OF HIS RESURRECTION, RIGHT? BY ALL OF THE KINDS OF EVIDENCE THAT I CAN MUSTER. AND THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE WRITING OF THE SCRIPTURES, WHATEVER. AND THAT'S THE FIRST ONE, SUFFERING. AND THE SECOND BIG REASON IS THE ONE YOU MENTION. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP ON AN IDEA OF GOD THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FATHER OF THE PRODIGAL SON. NOTHING TO DO WITH ABBA. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOD WHO ACTUALLY LOVES IT, CARES ABOUT ME, WANTS TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH ME. SO, THEY GROW UP WITH THE NOTION THAT GOD IS EITHER INDIFFERENT TO THEIR SALVATION OR GROW UP WORSE WITH THE NOTION OF GOD, WHAT I CALL THE ACCUSER. THE ACCUSER IS NOT GOD, HE'S THE EVIL SPIRIT. SO, OF COURSE, IF SOMEBODY KEEPS POUNDING INTO YOUR HEAD THAT GOD JUST WANTS TO SEND YOU TO HELL OR GOD, YOU KNOW, YOU GET INTO SOME OF THOSE 18TH CENTURY WONDERFUL TYPE SERMONS, GOD IT JUST HOLDS YOU IN CONTEMPT LIKE SOME LOATHESOME INSECT HANGING FROM A THREAD OVER A FLAME. YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IS TELLING YOU THIS IS HOW GOD VIEWS YOU, YOU ARE IN TROUBLE. AND YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE EITHER A MENTAL BREAKDOWN OR YOU ARE GOING TO SAY EVENTUALLY, HEY, I KNOW HUMAN AGENTS THAT HAVE A LOT MORE HUMAN WISDOM THAN GOD. WHY? BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE WISDOM IN GOD. A LOATHESOME INSECT. THAT ONLY COULD COME FROM THE EVIL SPIRIT. HE MADE YOU IN HIS OWN IMAGE AND LIKENESS. AND HE MADE YOU AS BELOVED. IT'S THE HIGHEST NAME THAT CAN BE GIVEN. JOHN, YOU KNOW, THE APOSTLE CALLS HIMSELF THE BELOVED DISCIPLE. RIGHT? AND OF COURSE, JESUS' OWN NAME FOR HIMSELF, RIGHT? IT IS THE LOVED ONE. AND OF COURSE, HE ADOPTED US WHICH MAKES US BELOVED ONES. AND WE ARE FREE THROUGH OUR BELOVEDNESS. AND WHEN WE GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT, GOD IS ACTUALLY LOVING US INTO THE IDEA THAT WE ARE BELOVED. HOWEVER, IF YOU WERE BROUGHT UP WITH SOMETHING REALLY ERRONEOUS AND BELIEVE ME A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE BROUGHT UP WITH THE NOTION OF GOD WHO I COULDN'T POSSIBLY RECOGNIZE FROM THE PREACHING OF JESUS. IF I WERE A GENIUS, I COULDN'T SEE ONE SCRAP OF IT IN THERE. BUT SOMEHOW THIS GETS TRANSMITTED TO A PERSON. AND I CALL THOSE THE SIX FALSE NOTIONS OF GOD. AND I'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, MY NEW BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, CHAPTER 2. IN THAT BOOK, IT'S CALLED WHO GOD IS, AND IS NOT. AND I GO THROUGH THESE FALSE NOTIONS OF GOD, THE ANGRY GOD. RIGHT? LOATHESOME, HATEFUL GOD, THE PAYBACK GOD. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAPPENS TO YOU, YOU GOT BAD EYES. OH, THAT'S BECAUSE WHEN YOU WERE 30, YOU DID THIS ACTION AND NOW, GOD IS SUCH A VENGEFUL GOD, I'M THE RETRIBUTIVE GOD. I'M GOING TO GET EVEN WITH YOU, YOU LITTLE WRETCH. GOD, THE STOIC. I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR WHINING. I CAN'T BELIEVE IT SPITZER, LOW THESE MANY YEARS, YOU HAVEN'T LEARNED HARDER, FASTER, BETTER AND YOU ARE IN FOR IT! QUIT YOUR WHINING! THE DISGUSTED GOD. DISGUSTED GOD IS ANOTHER ONE. OH, SPITZER 64-YEARS-OLD, LOOK AT YOU! NO PROGRESS. >> Doug: YOU DON'T LOOK A DAY OVER 30! >> Father: ANYWAY, YOU GET THE POINT. I WOULD JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, WE GOT TO GO THROUGH THOSE SIX NOTIONS OF GOD. AND WHAT I DO, I TAKE A LOOK AT THE PREACHING OF JESUS RELATIVE TO THE SIX NOTIONS OF GOD. ESPECIALLY THE HATEFUL, JOHN THAN EDWARDS, LOATHESOME INSECT, AND THE ANGRY GOD. SO DECEPTIVE. >> AND WHY WOULD A GOD WHO THINKS OF US THAT WAY WANT TUESDAY SPEND ANY TIME WITH HIM, LET ALONE ETERNITY IN HEAVEN. THAT CERTAINLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. >> Father: RIGHT. CERTAINLY DIDN'T NEED THE REVELATION OF JESUS TO COME TO THAT FACT. ALL KIND OF PRIMITIVE RELIGIONS HAD THAT VIEW OF GOD ALL BY THEMSELVES. THEY DIDN'T NEED THE FULLNESS OF REVELATION TO COME INTO THE WORLD TO SAY, ALL OF THEIR UNCONSCIOUS ARCHETYPES OF A HORRIFYING GOD WERE ACTUALLY TRUE. JESUS REVEALS JUST THE OPPOSITE. GOD IS THE FATHER OF THE PRODIGAL SON. AND GOD IS THE, TO BE SEEN IN JESUS AND JESUS IN THE FATHER. AND THE GOD HANGING ON THE CROSS IS SAYING TO THE THIEF NEXT TO HIM THIS DAY. YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE. HE'S THE GOD WHO IS TELLING THE TAX COLLECTOR JUST SITTING IN THE BACK, HAVE MERCY ON ME FOR I AM A SINFUL MAN. AND I TELL YOU, THAT MAN WENT HOME JUSTIFIED. TAKE JESUS AT HIS WORD. TO SEE JESUS IS TO SEE THE FATHER AND YOU WILL KNOW THE LOVE OF THE FATHER IN THE PREACHING AND THE ACTIONS OF JESUS. >> Doug: AND THAT'S A PERFECT WAY TO END THIS WEEK'S SHOW. YOU CAN CHECK OUT FATHER SPITZER'S WEB SITE, magiscenter.com AND WE HAVE THE WONDERFUL BOOKS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE RELIGIOUS CATALOG AS WELL. FATHER SPITZER ONCE AGAIN, NEXT WEEK, WE'LL TALK CONTEMPLATION BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH WE DIDN'T TOUCH ON YET. REMEMBER, EWTN IS HAPPY TO PRESENT THIS PROGRAM ON A REGULAR BASIS AND CHECK OUT ewtn.com. YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND ON YOU ALL OF THE INFORMATION WHEN THE PARTICULAR PROGRAMS ARE ON. AND MOTHER ANGELICA'S LATEST WORK, SUFFERING AND BURNOUT. A POPULAR BOOK. JOIN US NEXT TIME AS WE RE-ENTER "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" NEXT WEEK AT THIS TIME. AND WE'LL BE TALKING MORE ABOUT CONTEMPLATION. SO, SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. ♪
