Face To Face | Carl Gustav Jung (1959) HQ

[Music] Switzerland Carl Gustav Jung born in 1875 with Freud one of the founding fathers of modern psychology still working at 84 he is the most honored living psychiatrist and history will record him as one of the greatest physicians of all time [Music] professor Jung how many years have you lived in this lovely house by the lake at Zuri it's about 50 years and do you live here now just with your secretaries and your English housekeeper yes no children or grandchildren with you whoa no they don't live here but I have plenty of them in there so are things do they come to see you often oh yes how many grandchildren have all 19 and great-grandchildren oh I think eight and I suppose one is on the way and today do you enjoy having them well of course it's nice to feel such a living Crowder out of oneself are they afraid of you do you think I don't I don't think so if you would know my grandchildren they wouldn't think so what I still buy things even my hat belongs to me I stole the other day now can I take you back to your own childhood do you remember the occasion when you first felt consciousness of your own individual self that was in my 11th year there I certainly on my way to school I stepped out of a mist it was just as if I had been in a mist walking in a mist and I stepped out of it and then you I am I am what I am and then I thought but what have I been before and then I found that I was that happen in a mist not knowing to differentiate myself from things I was just one thing about a bomb among many things now was that associated with any particular episode in your life or was it just a normal function adolescence well such difficult to say as far as I can remember nothing had happened before that would explain this sudden coming to consciousness you hadn't for instance been quarreling with your parents or no no no that what memories have you of your parents were they strict and out fashioned in the way they brought you up oh well you know they belonged to delete the parts of the Middle Ages and my father was a parson in the country and and you can imagine for people well then you know in the seventies of the past century very haughty convictions in which people have lived since 1800 years how did he try to impress these convictions on you did he punish you for oh no not at all no he was very liberal I and he was most tolerant the most understanding which did you get on with more more intimately your father or your mother that's difficult to say in of course one is always more intimate with the mother but when it comes to the personal feeling I had a better relation to my father who was predictable then with my mother who was to me a very problematical something so at any rate fear was not an element in your relation with your father not at all did you accept him as being infallible in his judgments oh no I knew he was a very fallible how old were you when you knew that now let me see perhaps 11 or 12 years old it was hanging together with the fact that I was that I knew I was and from then on I saw that my father is different yes so the moment of self-revelation was closely connected with realizing the fal ability of your parents yes you say so now what about I realized that I had fear of my mother but not you on the day there she was quite known to me unpredictable but in the night I'd feel my mother and can you remember why can you remember what that Carol the slightest idea why what about your school days now were you happy at school as a school in the beginning of us very happy to have a companions you know because before I had been very lonely we lived in the country and I had to know sister my sister was born very much later when he was nine years old and so I was used to be alone but I missed it I missed company and in school it was wonderful to have company but soon you know in a country school naturally I I was far ahead and and then I began to be bored what sort of religious upbringing did your father give we were swiss reformed and did he make you attend church regularly well that was quite natural everybody went to to do to church Sunday and did you believe in God oh yes do you now believe in God no difficult to answer I know I needn't I don't need to believe I know when they're turning to the next staging point in your life what made you decide to become a doctor that was in the first place immediately opportunistic choice I really originally I wanted to be an archaeologist I see the ology Egyptology or something of the sort I hadn't the money the study was too expensive so I my second love then belonged to nature particular zoology either one I when I began my studies I inscribed in the so called philosophical faculty to that means Natural Sciences but then I soon so that was my kind they carry here that was before me who would make a school also of me but I didn't I never thought I had any chance to get any further because we had no money at all and when I I saw that that didn't suit my expectations you know I I didn't want to become a schoolmaster teaching was not just what I was looking for and so I remember that my godfather has been a doctor and and I knew that whenever selling machine had a chance to study natural science and to become a doctor and a doctor can develop you see he can have a practice he can do you can choose his scientific interests more or less irrelevant I would have more chance than being a schoolmaster also the idea of doing something useful with you being appealed to me and did you when you decided to become a doctor have difficulty in getting the training at school and in passing the exams I particularly had a difficulty with certain teachers that didn't believe that I could write these diseases I remember one case where the teacher had the person to be happy to discuss the papers written by the pupils and he took the best first and he went with the whole number of the pupils and I didn't appear and I was patted traveled over it no they thought whether it is impossible that patties can be that bad and when he had finished he said there is still one paper left over and that is the one by whom that would be by far the best paper if it hadn't been copied he has she has just copied it somewhere stolen you have a sea fume and if I knew where you had have stolen it you you don't fling you out of school and I got mad and say that this is the one teachers where I have worked the most because the sea was interesting in contradistinction you know to all the things which are not at all interesting to me and at the end he said you are a liar and if you can prove that you have stolen that things of work then you get out of school now that was a very serious thing to me because what else then you see and I hated afternoon and that was the the only man I could have killed you know if I had met him once at a talk corner I would have shown something wrong what I could do did you often have bad thoughts about people when you were young no not exactly only when I got mad well then I beat them up and did he walk and get mad not so often but then for good you were you were very strong and big I imagine yes about pretty strong and you know really the country with those peasant poisons was rough kind of - I would have been capable of Islands I know I was a bit afraid of it so I try to avoid the critical situations because I didn't trust myself once I was attacked by about seven boys and I got mad and I took one and just swam him around with his legs you know and I'm beat down four of them and then they were never satisfied and with their any consequences from that oh I should say yes from then on I was always always suspected that where I was at the bottom of every problem I was not but did they were afraid and I was never attacked again well now when the time came that you qualified as a doctor what made you decide to specialize in being an Alienist the others father an interesting point well now I I had finished my studies practically and when I didn't know what I really wanted to do I had a big chance for to follow one of my professors you he was called to a new position in Munich and he wanted me as his assistant and and then in that moment I studied for my final examination I came across the textbook a textbook of psychiatry up till then I thought nothing about it because our profession sin wasn't particularly interesting and I read I only read the introduction to that book where certain things were said about psychosis as a maladjustment of personality that hit the nail on the head in that moment I saw I must become an agonist my heart was something wisely in that moment and when I told my professor I wouldn't follow him I would study psychiatry he couldn't understand it no my my friends because it was Al Qaeda it was was nothing nothing at all but I saw one d1 guy chance to unite certain contrasting things in myself namely beside the Machine beside natural science I always had studied history of philosophy and such subjects the monstrous as if suddenly two streams were joining and how long was it after you took that decision that you first came in contact with Freud oh you know that was at the end of my studies and and then it took quite a while until I met for it you see I finished my studies in 1900 and I met for it only very much later by I read well I in 1900 I've already read history but the interpretation and the bio further studies about exterior but that was merely literally you know and then in nineteen seven I became acquainted with him personally would you tell me how that happened did you get pianist willing I'd written a book about the culture of the dementia praecox a song called schizophrenia then and I sent him that book and that should behave acquainted I when I went to Vienna for fortnight and and then we had in very long and penetrating conversations and that settled it and this long and penetrating conversation was followed by personal friendship oh yes she soon developed into a personal friendship and what sort of man was Freud well he was a complicated actually no I liked him very much and but I soon discovered that when he had thought something then it was settled well I was doubting all along the line and it was impossible to discuss something really a phone you know he had new figures of an education particularly you see I was studying count and I was steeped in it and and that was a far from Freud so from the very beginning there was a discrepancy did you in fact grow apart later partly because of the difference in temperamental approach to experiment and proof well of course it is always a temperamental difference and his approach was naturally different from mine because his personality was different from mine that led me into my later investigation of trico logical types which are definite attitudes some people of doing it in this way and other people are doing it or the typical way and they have such differences between myself and fire - do you consider the Freud's standard of proof and experimentation with less higher than your own well I you see that is a revolution I'm not competent off I am NOT my own history oh my historiography I in reference to certain the results no I think my method has its marriage tell me did Freud himself ever analyze you the Y oh yes I had submitted quite a lot of my dreams to him and so did he and he'd hear me oh yes yes yes but do you remember now at this distance of time what were the significant features of Freud's dreams that you needed at the time well that was all indiscreet to ask you though I have debbie such a thing as a professional secret he's been dead these many years I we are yes but these regards last longer than life I prefer not to talk about it well may I ask you something else there which perhaps is also in the speech is it true that you have a very large number of letters which you exchanged with Freud which are still unpublished yes when are they going to be published well not during my lifetime you would have no objection to them being published after your oh no not at all because they are probably of great historical importance I don't think so then why have you not published them so far because they were not important to me enough I see no particular importance is here in them they are concerned with personal matters well partially but I wouldn't care to to to publishing well now can we move on to the time when you did eventually part company with Freud it was partly I think with the publication of your book the psychology of the unconscious is that correct that is that is was the real course well now for you oh I mean the final course because it had a long preparation you know from the beginning I had as a Macho Man Tallis I couldn't agree with quite a number of his ideas which ones in particular well chiefly his purely personal approach and his disregard of the historical conditions of man you see we depend largely upon our history we are shaped through education to the inference of the parents which are by no means always personal they were prejudiced or they were influenced by historical ideas or what I called dominance and and that is a most decisive factor in psychology and we are not of today of yesterday we are of an immense age was it not partly your observation your clinical observation of psychotic cases which led you to differ from Freud on this it was partially my experience with with schizophrenic patients that led me to the idea of certain general historical conditions is there any one case that you can now look back on and feel that perhaps it was the turning point of your thought oh yes I made quite a number of experiences of that sort and I went even to Washington to study knee goes to Jackie at a clinic there in order to find out they have the same type of dreams as we have and these experience and all those led me then to the hypothesis that there is a impersonal Staton in our psyche and I can tell you an example we had a page a patient in the world he was quiet but completely dissociated schizophrenic and he was in the pretty cold aníbal twenty years he had come into the clinic as a matter of fact being a young man critical organ and there's no particular education and once I came into the moorland and he was obviously excited and called to me took me by the label of my coat and led me to the window that's it okay now now you will see now look at it look up at the Sun and see how it moves see you must move your hair to like this and then you will see the Dave follows of the Sun and you know that's the origin of the wind and you see how the Sun moves as you move your head from one side to the other now of course I did that send it at all I thought oh there you are he's just crazy and but that case remained in my mind and four years later I came across a paper written by the German historian ET Trish who had dealt with with the so called Madras literature a part of the great Parisian source of papyrus and there he produced the part of the so-called mittens Little Italy namely they say they're after the second prayer thou wilt see how the disk of the Sun unfolds and you will see hanging down from it the tube the origin of the wind and when you move thy face and face to the regions of the east it will move there and if you move your face to the region of the West it will follow you and in cetera I know and you now this is it this is the vision of my patient but how could you be sure that your patient wasn't unconsciously recording something that somebody had told you oh no quite out of question because that thing was not known it was in a you know in a magic papyrus and parishes and it wasn't even published it was only published four years later after I had observed it with my patient and this you felt proved that there was a an unconscious which was something more than personal oh well that was not approved to me but it was a hint and I talked to him yes now tell me how did you first decide to start your work on the psychological types was that also as a result of some particular clinical experience less so it was a very personal relation namely to do justice to the culture for it also to that of author and to find my own bearings that helped me to understand why for develop such as theory why out of developed his theory which is power principle have you concluded what psychological type you are yourself naturally I have devoted a great deal of attention to that painful question you know and reach the conclusion well you see the type is nothing static it it changes it within the course of life but I most certainly was characterized by thinking always thought from early childhood on and I had a great deal of intuition too and I had a definite difficulty with feeling and my relation to reality was not particularly brilliant I was often at variance with the reality of things now that gives you all the necessary data for the diagnosis during the 1930s when you were working about the German patients you did not leave forecast the Second World War was very likely we're now looking at the world today you feel that the third world war is likely I have no definite indications in that respect but there are so many indications that one doesn't know what one sees is it trees or is it the wood it's very difficult to say because the dreams of people's dreams contain apprehensions you know but it is very difficult to say whether they point to war because that idea is at most people's mind formally you know it has been much simpler people didn't think of a war and therefore it was rather clear multi dreams meant nowadays no more so we are so full of apprehensions fears that one doesn't know exactly to what it points one thing is sure a great change of our psychological attitude is imminent that is because we need more we need more psychology we need more understanding of human nature because the only real danger that exists is man himself he is the great danger and we are pitifully unaware of it we know nothing of man far too little his tightly should be studied because we are the origin of all coming evil well does man do you think need to have the concept of sin and evil to live with is this part of our nature well obviously and of a redeemer that is an inevitable consequence this is not a concept which will disappear as we become more rational it's something well I don't believe that man ever will deviate from the original pattern of his being there will always be such ideas for instance if you do not directly believe in a personal Redeemer as it was the case with Hitler or the hero worship in Russia then it is an idea it is a symbolic idea you have written one time another some sentences which have surprised me a little about death now in particular I remember you said that death is psychologically just as important as birth and like it it's an integral part of life but surely it can't be like yes if it's an end and there we are not quite certain about this and because you know there are these peculiar faculties of the psyche that it isn't entirely confined to space and time you can have dreams or visions of the future you can see around corners and such things only ignorance in IDs these facts you know it's quite evident that they do exist and have existed always now these facts we show that it's a key impact at least it's not dependent upon these confinements and then what went exactly is not under that obligation to live in time and space alone and obviously it doesn't then in to that extent psyche is not separated to those walls and that means a practical continuation of life of a sort of psychical existence beyond time and space do you yourself believe that there is probably the end or do you believe well I I can't say you see the word belief is a difficult thing for me I don't believe I must have a reason for certain hypotheses either I know one thing and then I know it I don't need to believe it if I I don't allow myself for instance to believe a thing just for the sake of believing it I I can't believe it but when there are sufficient reasons to form certain hypotheses I shall accept teacher issues naturally as you say we have to reckon with the possibility of so-and-so you know well you told us that we should regard death as being a girl illusion that the string away from it is to evade life yes what advice would you give to people in their later life to enable them to do this when most of them must in fact believe that death is the end of a movie well you see I have treated many old people and it's quite interesting to watch what the unconscious is doing with the fact that it is apparently threatened with a complete and it disregards it it life behaves of his as if it was going on and so I think it is better for all people to live on to to look forward to the next day as if he had to spend centuries and then he lives properly but when he is afraid when he doesn't look for that he looks back he petrifies he he he gets stiffened he dies before his time but when he is living on looking forward to the great adventure that is ahead then he lives and that is about what the unconscious is intending to do of course it's quite obvious that you are all going to die and this is the said finale of everything but nevertheless there is something in us that doesn't believe it apparently but this is merely a factor as I cannot in fact doesn't mean to me that it proves something it is simply so references I may not know why we need salt but we prefer to eat salt because you feel better and so when you think in a certain way you may feel considerably better and I think if you think along the lines of nature then you think properly and this leads me to the last question that I want to ask you as the world becomes more technically efficient it seems increasingly necessary for people to behave communally and collectively now do you think it's possible that the highest development of man may be to submerge his own individuality in a kind of collective consciousness that's hardly possible I think there will be a reaction the reaction will setting against this communal dissociation you know man doesn't stand for ever his nullification once there will be a reaction and I see I see it setting in you know when I think of my patients they all seek their own existence and to assure their existence against that complete atomization into nothingness or into meaninglessness man cannot stand a meaningless life [Music] you

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Id: 2AMu-G51yTY

Length: 38min 5sec (2285 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 10 2017

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[u/ZacharyWayne]

Quotes by Jung on 'religion':

There are no longer any gods whom we can invoke to help us. The great religions of the world suffer from increasing anemia, because the helpful numina have fled from the woods, rivers, and mountains, and from animals, and the god-men have disappeared underground into the unconscious. There we fool ourselves that they lead an ignominious existence among the relics of our past.

The conflict between science and religion is in reality a misunderstanding of both. Scientific materialism has merely introduced a new hypostasis, and that is an intellectual sin. It has given another name to the supreme principle of reality and has assumed that this created a new thing and destroyed an old thing. Whether you call the principle of existence "God," "matter," "energy," or anything else you like, you have created nothing; you have simply changed a symbol. The materialist is a metaphysician malgré lui [despite himself].

One of the main functions of organized religion is to protect people against a direct experience of God.

For underlying all philosophies and all religions are the facts of the human soul, which may ultimately be the arbiters of truth and error.

Here we come to that aspect of initiation which acquaints man with woman and woman with man in such a way as to correct some sort of original male-female opposition. Man's knowledge (Logos) then encounters women's relatedness (Eros) and their union is represented as that symbolic ritual of a sacred marriage which has been at the heart of initiation since its origins in the mystery-religions of antiquity. But this is exceedingly difficult for modern people to grasp, and it frequently takes a special crisis in their lives to make them understand it.

A tribe’s mythology is its living religion “whose loss is always and everywhere, even among the civilized, a moral catastrophe. But religion is a vital link with psychic processes independent of and beyond consciousness, in the dark hinterland of the psyche. Many of these unconscious processes may be indirectly occasioned by consciousness, but never by conscious choice. Others appear to arise spontaneously, that is to say, from no discernible or demonstrable conscious cause.

edit: spelling

[u/Valo-FfM]

He does not know though.

Noone does.

[u/Jaggednad]

This interviewer is hilarious. Jung says something like that and interview just changes the subject? lol. Nothing interesting to ask about there, let's move on.

[u/incudude311]

Clarification