EWTN Bookmark - 2020-06-28 - Teaching Discernment: a Pedagogy for Presenting Ignatian Discernment of

[Music] and welcome to an on-location EWTN bookmark from denver our guest author is father Timothy M Gallagher author of teaching discernment a pedagogy for presenting Ignatian discernment of spirits it was great to see you fall thanks doc we had to come to see you this time here in Denver we were out here for the family celebration we got chance to meet up with you and record this program about this book teaching discernment one of the things that always strikes me with this is it says after your name omv meanwhile there's a bunch of Jesuits in there endorsing your work on Ignatian spirituality do you ever have an interesting conversations with them wondering why is an om v so interested in Ignatian spirituality sure a lot of really nice things around that and I've been really grateful that a lot of top-notch Jesuits have really supported this work as you see in the book there sometimes what I'll do it let's say I have a few hundred people in front of me when we're going to teach discernment and I'll ask is is there any Jesuit in the room oftentimes there isn't and I make the point then that Ignatian spirituality is larger than the Jesuit religious order of course it Ignatius founded them they live out of it but it's a universal spirituality like Carmelite or Franciscan spirituality or so on you know it's it's for everyone in the church right so that's why an OMB a Noblet of the Virgin Mary is engaged in this right and as you can hear we're on location here so the bells are ringing but you say in the beginning of this book can I write this book to share a pedagogy now I use that word a lot of people might be saying I don't even know what that means pedagogy is an approach to teaching if you're gonna teach young children or adolescents or adults so forth or people with a background more or less in the field you shape your teaching to your audience and that's what we mean by a pedagogy a way of presenting a certain content and this is a pedagogy that I've developed it's almost 40 years now I've been teaching this and I've seen at work been able to refine it over the years and I want to pass it on right you say that one of the things you try to do with this is present abundant example ordinary examples the kind we all experience though often without understanding or knowing how to respond to them Ignatians neisha supplies the key why's important that they're the ordinary things that people can relate to because that's what almost all of life and almost all of what the spiritual life is you look at the you know take a st. Thomas Moore for example all right we're all aware of his heroic martyrdom but that didn't happen out of nothing that came out of ordinary faithful Catholic living over the years in the family at his work and so forth so for most of us for example getting up in the morning and maybe you feel discouraged I don't know you're gonna get the report from the doctor or there's something at work that's hang on hanging on you or your conversation with your teenage college daughter just didn't go that well yesterday or whatever it might be and you're struggling with this okay right there that's where Ignatius wants to come to us and help us understand that discouragement from the spiritual perspective and show us what to do and that's why people love what he's doing because oh this is my life and finally now someone's bringing light to these daily things that I'm always experiencing right you talk about what Ignatius has helped people can then perceive more clearly in what is of God and what is not of God which is really what so many people are confused by trying to figure out how do I really discern quote-unquote God's will in my life but you talk about something called being doubly free what's that mean free from and free for so freed from the discouraging lies of the evil one Monisha speaks of as the enemy most commonly so that's just a classic try out the world the flesh and the devil harmful influences which can discourage us and lead us astray and oftentimes we feel and develop by this we don't know what to do with it Ignatius brings light clarity and practical tools so that's the freedom from which is really the preload for the more important freedom for and that is the freedom to hear God's voice to say yes to God's love to live a life of holiness to pursue the Lord in our vocations now what's different about this book is it's not just talking about it you say it offers a blueprint for this teaching because you say once people learn of it they want to share it that's what generally happens when people well hear over and over again from people is depending on the age of the person maybe we finished the teaching they'll say I wish I'd known this 10 years ago 20 years ago 50 years ago and I love that actually when I hear that because it means it's really sinking and people see the value of it and then what happens is people want to share it everybody should know this I hear this all the time well this book hopefully provides an instrument for people who might feel this is valuable I'd like to share it I'm not an expert I don't know what to do well here's a book that I'll show you it's interesting you say that because so many times in in the real presence teaching as mother did or things like that or the insights of the church from Scripture like a father Mitch might have or what you're talking about Ignatian spirituality so many people say why didn't anybody tell me about this before well there are lots of different answers to that but I'd like to think that one of them is that this is really something new I hope that doesn't sound too bold but I think it's true this pedagogy didn't exist before I see elements of it did in scholarly books but nobody had put them together and shaped them in a way that your your everyday Catholic could hear and say oh well that's me now I see what that means now I know how to apply it again that's what I think it was valuable to pass this on so that it'll be there is that why you did that book on the Liturgy of the hours as well that kind of approach well that book really is due to EWTN maybe the truth because I had written an earlier book just telling my own story of praying it over the years and then out of that came one of these series with EWTN on applying the Liturgy of the hours to the lay vocation and then ewtn asked me to make that a book right because a lot of people are interested in that you say in this book because this is the third book you say I've written on the rules in this book I return to the 14 rules for the third time the rules are the same of the perspective is different how so because in the other books the perspective is the person learning the rules in this book the perspective is the person who wants to share them with other people now you lay this book out in three parts why don't you go through what the three parts well if you're going to teach the rules you need to be prepared so in the first part of the book I explained the elements of the method and how a person would prepare or the different things you'd want to emphasize and so forth in the second part we go through each of ignatius 14 rules and I share the pedagogy I've developed which I'm fairly confident works quite well now and put that in the hands of the perspective teacher and at the end we deal with some resources and final question you mentioned the fact that if I share various examples in metaphors like the snowball at the top of the mountain halfway down the mountainside to illustrate rule 12 that I find helpful presenting the rules you can use these examples or make up your own well what if somebody makes up one that actually isn't appropriate your audience will tell you so the ones that I've developed are really refined after him as I said many years of teaching this and some of them I've jettisoned along the way because they really don't work as well the one with the snowball really does work and what is it why don't you remind is month alright so this is rule 12 ignatius is letting people know that the key moment the moment when it's easiest to resist the enemies temptations is right at the very beginning so for example here's a discouraged man at 10 o'clock in his room after a disheartening day he normally picks up the Bible reads for 10 minutes makes an examination of conscience but in front of the other hand on his desk is the smartphone and something in him out of discouragement feels the pull toward the smartphone in a way that Ignatius would call low and earthly and one touch can become 10 become 200 all right when is it easiest to resist that or any parallel temptation Ignatius says right at the very beginning so the easiest time to resist it is before you even reach out to touch it if with God's grace and some courage alright that's stopping the snowball at the top of the mountain because we all know that the longer we dally with a temptation the harder and harder it gets to resist it so boot so I used that image I say here here is a high mountain covered with snow here at the mountain top of snowball is just getting started you can put out a finger and stop eyes let it get halfway down the mountain side gaining mass and speed it'll run you over but that doesn't have to and if we apply rule 12 I see okay now you mentioned that I very much desired to write this book for how long have you very much desired from the beginning you felt this was neither is this something that just came to you over the last few years well I'd say it's about 35 38 years that I've been teaching these rules for discernment it was only gradually that I began to realize that I had actually developed the pedagogy which at least in this form did not exist and that was valuable and as over the years I began watching it make such a difference in people's lives that I realized this is something that really should be passed on so I can't give you an exact year but I would say maybe 25 30 years into the teaching I would begin to realize this should be passed on I think one of the things and you and Yuri go through the through the rules in the beginning and you talk about somebody trying to move from mortal going from mortal sin to mortal sin the enemy is ordinarily accustomed to proposed apparent pleasures to keep you there but then the second rule is in persons who are going on trying to purify their sins and rising from good to better than the service of the Lord the method is contrary to that in the first rule in one of these are two different spiritual situations a person far from God and living a life of serious mortal sin and a much happier situation of the person which is probably going to be most of those who are listening to this conversation people who with all of our human fragilities really don't want sin and want to love and serve the Lord and grow in the first situation the enemy attempts to facilitate that movement away from God the good spirit attempts to hinder it mm-hmm when the movement reverses toward God the actions of the Spirit Isis now it's the enemy who attempts to hinder discourage and the good spirit who attempts to facilitate or encourage right now jumping ahead you had mentioned rule number 12 but the snowball effect the 12th the enemy acts like a woman in being weak when faced with strength and strong when faced with weakness why woman all right there are all sorts of cultural connotations today which make that difficult so I teach that I actually changed the metaphor and we use parents and a spoiled child both are situations that are contrary to anything God ever intended God never intended men and women to fight that's the metaphor and no 12 nor that children be spoiled by their parents but if those metaphor is great so you've really touched on a nice question here then what I tell people is if it grates if something and you says this doesn't sound right and you're hearing it well because this is a metaphor of the action of the enemy the one who is anti the anti human the one who is against humanity and human nature as God intended it to be but the point his point is that if beyond the metaphor the point is that if you are willing to be strong when the enemy first brings his temptation the enemy's weakness is laid bare now and then 13th rule likewise he conducts himself so the enemy is a false lover and wishing to remain secret and not to be revealed here's a person who has a spiritual burden in his or her heart and you know that feeling that Lord I would feel so free to receive your love and love you in response but then there's the block there's the thing that weighs on our heart there's the fear there's the unspoken thing and the enemy wants to snuff don't talk about it because of course as long as you don't talk about it the burden sois fears confession yeah confession is a wonderful wonderful resource here or spiritual direction or any conversation with a wise and competent spiritual person will undo that room and the fourteenth likewise he conducts himself as a leader intent upon conquering and robbing what he desires and this is the one that was always he attacks at the weakest point parenthetically you see the robbing in there this is not a noble leader and defending the common good this is a leader of a group of plunderers for thieves basically so it's a metaphor again for the enemy and of course with with the what the astute leader does is to attack where the defenses are the weakest and ignatius points out that the enemy will do that spiritually so that if we identify that weakest point there's no shame in having one we all do that's just to be human and a fall and loved and redeemed world but if we can identify self-knowledge if we can know what that is and work to strengthen a beautiful things happen in the spiritual life right and another used to refer to like avoiding occasions of sin sure understanding where you are weakened trying to avoid those situations if a person finds I always seem to wind up in this discouraging place spiritually this happens and all the energy gets sapped that's rule 14 during if we can come with all the tools are given to understand why that's happening what the weak point is and work just use the tools to strengthen it as I say wonderful things happen now you talked about in the very beginning about how it all began you mentioned in the seminary you said during those same years I grew closer to the founder of my religious community the venerable Bruno and and then as I learned more about him I increased perceived his love and esteem for the Ignatian spiritual exercise so is that one of the connections for you then yeah I'd say it's the key one I mean just personally I fell in love with him when I made them myself but it was very much in harmony with our founder in fact I did my my doctoral thesis on that very question of the place of the spiritual exercises and venerable Bruno's life and the work he gave us and it was the central part so to get back to your earlier question that's why anomaly to the Virgin Mary right what is dealing with Ignatian things because that's the heart of what our founder wanted us to do in the church okay you also said I remember running this is after the Spiritual Exercises you went through you say for the month I said to myself someone has finally taught me how to pray Ignatius is ever practical he's not writing a Summa Theologica like Saint Thomas he's writing Spiritual Exercises so it's about doing things in the spiritual life and so he gets very practical about all of this that's what these rules are practical guidelines teachings on how to pray so that when I finished making the Ignatian Spiritual Exercises with the daily guidance of a wise Jesuit and putting his teachings into practice I felt finally someone's just showing me the basics of prayer it was beautiful right and you also talked about I guess you gave a retreat and you say something electric occurred how could you tell what was different it was the first time that I shared these rules in the setting of this was an eight-day Ignatian retreat so in silence people praying you four times a day for an hour with the scripture and then meeting for an hour with me each day to look at the experience and where I was going and each morning I would give a half-hour conference in which I went through all of these 14 rules a teacher knows you know when there is electric is the right word for it there is a living connection that what you're saying is meeting a real space in a person's heart and people are drinking it in and finding this enormous ly helpful we all knew it and actually this was for a group of sisters and their community had me then do three of these a year for the next ten years you mentioned you you talked about that in the book also what what does all of this have to do with a groundskeeper going into a shed this was one of the retreatants from one of these many retreats where I shared them so she was looking out the window of her room and she watched the groundskeeper for this retreat center go to the tool shed and go in and come out carrying the various tools he needed for his work and she said that's what Ignatius has done for me spiritually he's given me the concrete practical tools that I need to make sense out of this up and down daily experience in the spiritual life then you talk about the fruit of this pedagogy all people of faith who seek to love Jesus experience the spiritual ups and downs Ignatius describes in his rules at times they find themselves full of spiritual energy God feels close and they feel his sense of love at other times and for reasons they don't always understand their spiritual energy seems to disappear I would say that in as I said the almost 40 years that I've taught these rules I have never once and this is people of all educational backgrounds ethnic cultural various countries I have never once had one person say to me I don't know what you're talking about I don't know what it because this is just we all know that there are times of spiritual energy prayer is alive with energy to live our faith in times of discouragement when it's hard to even want to pray and so for these ups and downs are just ordinary normal experience and that's what Ignatius addresses right and that's why you have this comedy it's some wonderful to know that I'm not the only one hope people love that any people love that because so many of us feel ashamed of being discouraged in the spiritual life her days when it's hard to even keep your mind on your prayer or maybe to even want to go to daily Mass if I may say that reverently or with you they're distracted and people feel ashamed it isn't just you it's every one of us it's all the saints it's there in tourism a shish all of them and to know that we're part of a large family living a normal spiritual experience and there's a way to understand it and respond to it is enormous ly encouraging that's really the key reason why I love teaching this because it engenders hope in people and not just an emotional hope for a moment like in a little emotional high the hope that comes from now I understand now I know what to do right the next time it happens and you know I would say Doug this is getting more and more contemporary as there are unfortunately there are so many reasons now as we look at the culture of the world and even the sufferings of our church there are reasons to be discouraged the teaching which helps people understand that discouragement and shows them how to overcome it is getting really important now I'm talking about the teaching you say teach the text yes this seems like a very basic thing but as I got into this I realized the best way to break open for people what Ignatius says is to actually use his own words and that may seem like such an obvious thing but it's not always the case so when you get close to his own words a couple things happen one is you respect his own choices you're on target you're not getting caught in tangents here there you don't get into things that are too confusing for people he is fundamental simple clear essential in what he says and because you're commenting the words of a saint you're never gonna go too far wrong all right well you talk about ignatius list for tactics in the enemy bite sadden place obstacles and disquiet with false reasons you say I note that the enemy does not immediately tempt one rising toward God with obvious sin the last thing such a person would want at that time the enemy does something different he bites strives to upset us to interfere with our service of God to shrivel away our peace of mind again my listeners grasp the link between Ignatius text and their lives because that here's here's a person who is in that second spiritual situation we talked about before increasing freedom from sin maybe they've made a retreat or had a beautiful experience or prayer or read a book which has made a real difference or gone to some kind of large Catholic event or whatever it might be there's new spiritual energy prayer is alive the last thing this person wants is obvious sin mm-hmm the enemy doesn't start there then the enemy starts just by trying to SAP the energy a bit that's the bite knowing what are there in the Spanish just to try to diminish it a bit so the person will have a little less energy to go forward now if the person gives in to that the enemy will come on with other things but what Ignatius wants us to see is this is where the enemy will start no shame in experiencing that be aware of it name it for the tactic of the enemy that it that it is and firmly reject it right in living the rules personally you said when we apply these rules in our own lives and so experience their wonderful fruit we will teach them to others with greater energy conviction enthusiasm because we experience ourselves how the rules apply in daily spiritual experience we will help our listeners make the connection as well yes you can really only share what you have you know no one gives what he does not have so if you want to teach these to other people you really need to be trying to live them in your own life which is a happy invitation because of the difference they'll make in your own life and that's why you'll speak about them with such conviction to others because you know in your own experience the difference how it works in the second part you get into kind of teaching and the rules and one of the things you talk about emphasizing grace is key to a fruitful presentation of the rules and I cannot emphasize it enough when I teach the rules I continually emphasize God's grace why this is a spirituality of redemption of Hope of grace yes Ignatius is speaking about the enemy's tactics discouraging lies the biting and all these different things that we've just wrapped in the mentioned but that's not the essential focus the essential centerpiece of all of this is that God has won the victory redemption is real grace is with you and that's why this is a spirituality of Hope so we look at the enemy's tactics so that we can see them clearly so that we can reject them but above all we're looking at the love of the Lord which is always with us it was interesting to the reverence reverence is another important point Eames absolutely key because when people hear this teaching or if you are the teacher sharing it you're touching very deeply sensitive places in people's hearts and so you don't pull those into those it's like Jesus who has such reverence you know the man who is timid he lets him come at night Mary who is Magdalene who is suffering so much on the morning of Easter just says her name and so forth Jesus is so reverent and sensitive to the hurt places in human hearts when you do this when you image in your own teaching Jesus own reverence for the hurt in human hearts people expand they open up they'll let the teaching in and then really beautiful things happen now you also mention the idea here in of talking about respect for questions I thought that was interesting when people find that people are timid this is new terrain for a lot of people but they have questions and when they find that you as a teacher listen with respect with reverence to the question affirm its goodness and then treat it with with respect and and reply to it what it does is it encourages that person and everyone else to be able to say we can ask questions right and feel and then a lot of wonderful things come out everybody does nobody wants to be embarrassed by thinking they're the only one who doesn't understand never want to do now the enemy you say I employed the word enemy by conscious choice I find that it serves the teaching well years ago I began presenting the word you were using the evil one evil ones tactics on one occasion women told me that the constant repetition the word evil was unsettling for her all right so just to be clear when Ignatius uses the word enemy or bad spirit or evil spirit and so forth or bad angel what he means as I mentioned earlier is the classic try out the the flesh hmm so it's Satan and his associated fallen angels its concupiscence has a legacy of original sin and harmful influences around us in the world so that word enemy is just solidly represents the church's classic understanding but it's a good word for two reasons one because it's a little less invasive I would say than the constant repetition of the word evil and secondly because it's exactly on target what we are identifying here is the one who is inimical to hostile to set against where God wants things to go in our lives so I find the term works well and it's the one that if you want to get numerical about it Ignatius uses most frequently in time actually in the section the title statement exploring the text you said talked about becoming aware this is the first step in discernment simply to notice become aware of this interior spiritual experience in our hearts and thoughts for Ignatius this is the moment when his eyes were opened a little all right let's do this let me ask both of us in this conversation and anyone listening what was in your heart and thoughts as you awoke this morning did you even notice what about last week what about the last year what's been going on all right this is this is where it starts is just to begin to notice the spiritual experience that is always going on in the stirrings of our hearts and in their related thoughts that's where it all starts and that's where it started for Ignatius in that dramatic moment well quiet but powerful moment of conversion when suddenly he realized there is spiritual experience going on in my heart and in my thoughts and that was the beginning right then you have this paradigm be aware understand take action that's the heart of the whole thing what if someone says what is discernment of spirits the answer is very simple simple I mean living it is life but it is a spiritual action or if we want to use Ignatius own word a spiritual exercise that invites us to be aware of to notice the spiritual experience that's always going on in our hearts and our thoughts work with it with the tools our tradition supplies to until we understand what's of God and not of God in it and then take action accordingly if it's of God accept it put it into practice if it's of the enemy firmly rejected so the can never harm us so what are you working on next the next book will be a short one for priests applying this teaching to parish life well thank you so much for the Galgo always a pleasure speaking with you great to see you again keep up your wonderful work and keep churning out the books I'll have you on bookmark in the wonderful series you've done for us over the years father Timothy M Gallagher the book teaching discernment pedagogy for a presenting nation discernment of spirits available through the EWTN religious catalogue ewtn our si.com you can order it there and you can check us out next time right here on bookmark thanks for being with us [Music] you

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Length: 27min 35sec (1655 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 28 2020