[MUSIC] [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WELCOME, I'M FATHER MITCH PACWA. WELCOME TO EWTN LIVE WHERE WE BRING YOU GUESTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. TONIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING TO A WELL-RESPECTED LEADER IN THE AREAS OF SPIRITUAL DIRECTION, DISCERNMENT, PRAYER, AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS AND HOW CAN USE IT TO DEEPEN AND ADVANCE YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE. IT'S NOT JUST FOR CLERGY OR RELIGIOUS, BUT FOR LAITY AS WELL. AND IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BUSY YOU ARE! HERE TO TELL US HOW TO INCORPORATE THIS ANCIENT PRAYER METHOD INTO OUR DAILY ROUTINE, AND WHAT TO EXPECT FROM IT, PLEASE WELCOME THE AUTHOR OF A LAYMAN'S GUIDE TO THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, HOW THE PRAYERS OF THE CHURCH CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE, FR. TIMOTHY GALLAGHER. [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: WELCOME. WELCOME INDEED. GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE. IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE PROGRAM. SINCE YOUR LAST VISIT, YOU HAVE BEEN MOVED OVER TO DENVER, COLORADO, IS THAT RIGHT? >> Guest: THAT'S RIGHT. I HELP OUT AT THE SEMINARY THERE. >> Fr. Pacwa: EXCELLENT. THAT'S A GREAT SEMINARY. >> Guest: IT'S A GOOD SEMINARY AND GOOD PLACE TO BE, GREAT SET OF GUYS TO WORK WITH TOO. >> Fr. Pacwa: I'VE BEEN THERE A FEW TIMES. VERY IMPRESSIVE HOW VIBRANT IT IS. IT'S A PLACE THAT'S PRETTY FULL. >> Guest: IT'S GROWING. >> Fr. Pacwa: GOOD NEWS, THINK, TOO, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. WE HEAR ABOUT THE PRIEST SHORTAGE. BUT AT DENVER, MINNEAPOLIS, AND A FEW OTHER SEMINARIES, DETROIT, THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF ROOM. NEW ORLEANS IS VERY FULL. SO, THERE'S A NUMBER OF SEMINARIES REALLY QUITE FULL. AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. >> I THINK ONE OF THE BRIGHT SPOTS IN OUR CHURCH RIGHT NOW, IN THE COUNTRY, MANY OF THE DIOCESAN SEMINARIES, NUMBERS ARE GROWING, FELLAS ARE GREAT TO WORK WITH. JUST BEFORE I CAME HERE, I WAS TEACHING IGNATIAN DISCERNMENT TO 1 80 OF THEM RIGHT OUT IN OMAHA. SO IT'S TRULY A GREAT THING TO SEE. >> Fr. Pacwa: IT TRULY IS. THIS NEW BOOK I ENJOYED QUITE WELL. I WENT INTO IT THINKING, WELL, I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. HOW DO YOU SAY THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. I FIGURED IT WAS GOING TO BE SOME OF THE MECHANICS AND HOW LAY PEOPLE CAN LEARN TO DO THIS TOO. SOME FOLKS DO GET A LITTLE LOST. BUT IT'S MUCH MORE THAN THAT. I REALLY APPRECIATE DOLLARS THAT YOU -- APPRECIATED THAT WAY BEFORE YOU GET TO THE MECHANICS, YOU GIVE THE HISTORY AND THE REASONS TO PRAY THE LIFERS. THAT'S WHAT I LITURGY OF THE HOURS. THAT'S HOW I WANT TO START OFF THIS. IS A LAYMAN'S GUIDE. SO, YOU CAN CLAIMING THAT THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IS NOT JUST FOR PRIESTS AND RELIGIOUS. IS THIS TRUE? >> Guest: WELL, FIRST OFF, I WANT TO SAY THAT I'M NOT CLAIMING THAT, THE CHURCH IS CLAIMING THAT >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, I WANT A CONGRESSIONAL HEARING! [LAUGHTER] >> I'M SAYING I CLAIM THAT BECAUSE THE CHURCH DOES CLAIM THAT. AND THE SECOND THING I SAY, ISN'T THIS A PRAYER FOR THE PRIESTS. AND THE ANSWER TO THAT IS YES. BUT THE TRUTH OF ITS, WE'RE ALL PRIESTS. THERE'S TWO KINDS OF PRIESTS, MINUTE STEERIAL PRIESTHOOD, THE DERIVING OF THAT FROM ORDINATION AND SACRAMENTS AND THE MAN CAN SAY MASS, HEAR CONFESSIONS AND ALL THAT GOES WITH ORDAINED PRIESTHOOD. AND THEN, THE PRIEST OF THE FAITHFUL. AND AS THE POPE HAS INDICATED, BASED ON THE PRIESTHOOD, WHICH WE'RE ALL CALLED TO AND OFFER TO SHARE, SACRIFICE TO GOD, IN THE WORDS OF PSALM 50, OFFER SACRIFICE OF PHRASE WHICH IS THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. AND IS THAT A PRAYER FOR PRIEST, YES, BUT THAT MEANS TO SAY IT'S FOR ALL OF US >> Fr. Pacwa: AND THERE'S AN ELEMENT, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW YOU ARE GETTING READY FOR ORDINATION TO THE DIACONATE, YOU WERE WELL AWARE THAT AS PART OF THE DIACONAL ORDINATION, THE REQUIREMENT TO SAY THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS WAS PLACED UPON YOU AND THE OTHER DEACON CANDIDATES, AS WAS THE CASE FOR ME TOO. SO, IT'S FOR THE ORDAINED PRIESTS, A REQUIREMENT UNDER THE PAIN OF SIN. YOU KNOW, THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS REQUIREMENT. FOR THE LAITY, IT'S NOT THAT KIND OF OBLIGATION BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY IS EXCELLENT >> Guest: THE LANGUAGE THAT THE POPES HAVE USED AND THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS, SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL, THE CATECHISM, IT'S WARMY RECOMMENDED TO LAY PEOPLE. RECOMMENDED AND WARMLY. YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE ST. JOHN PAUL II SAYING WE NEED TO PUT MORE ENERGY INTO BRINGING THIS TO THE LAY PEOPLE. AND NOW, ANOTHER DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE PRIEST NOT ONLY HAS THE CANONICAL OBLIGATION, BUT IZ COMPRISES FIVE TIMES A DAY. AND THE LAY PERSON, AS THE CHURN SAYS, WARMLY INVITED OR RECOMMENDED THAT THE LAY PERSON CONSIDER PRAYING PARTS OF IT ACCORDING TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE PERSON'S LIFE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE MOTHER OF FOUR SMALL CHILDREN IS IN DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES FROM PARENTS WHOSE CHILDREN ARE GROWN AND HAVE THEIR OWN FAMILIES AND HAVE MORE TIME. SO, MAYBE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS OF HEALTH OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. THE WARM INVITATION -- AND I LOVE THAT I AM ABLE TO SHARE THIS -- THIS IS A PRAYER FOR YOU AS LAY PEOPLE. IT'S NOT AN OBLIGATION. YOU ARE FREE TO MAKE CHOICES. BUT IF YOU DO CHOOSE THIS, YOU FIND TREASURE IN YOUR LIFE OF PRAYER. AND YOU CAN PRAY IT ACCORDING TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF YOUR LIFE WHICH ELIMINATES ALL STRAINING OR I HAVE TO GET THIS DONE. PRAY IT IN A WAY THAT FITS WITH YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES >> Fr. Pacwa: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AS IF, WELL, YOU STARTED IT, YOU ARE GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE IF YOU DON'T FINISH ALL THE DIFFERENT PARTS. NOT. NOT. NOT. NO. AND IF YOU ARE A PERSON IN THE LAY STATE, YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE SAME KIND OF OBLIGATIONS, BUT IT'S RECOMMENDED. YOU MENTIONED PLACES LIKE PRINCETON AT THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW MILLENNIUM. POPE JOHN PAUL II URGED LAY PEOPLE TO MAKE THIS PART OF THE PRAYER AS THEY GO INTO THIS NEW MILLENNIUM AND STIR UP THE FIRE OF PRAYER. WHEN PEOPLE BEGIN THIS, WHAT'S SOME OF THE ADVANTAGES THAT THEY CAN FIND IN PRAYING THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS? >> Guest: THERE'S SO MANY ANSWER TO SAY THAT, I'M JUST GOING TO CHOOSE A FEW THINGS >> Fr. Pacwa: SOUNDS GOOD >> Guest: LET'S START RIGHT AT THE CENTER OF EVERYTHING. JESUS CHRIST. THE CENTER OF THE CHRISTIAN CATHOLIC LIFE. WE'RE CALLED TO LIVE THE WAY JESUS LIVED, TO IMITATE HIM. HE'S OUR MODEL. WHEN WE APPLY THAT TO PRAYER AND REALIZE THAT JESUS PRAYED THE PSALMS. HE KNEW THEM, LOVED THEM, PRAYED THEM, RIGHT THERE AT HIS SPIRITUAL FINGER TIPS IN TIME. FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE CROSS, AND IN A TIME OF ANGUISH, MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU ABANDONED ME, QUOTING PSALM 22 >> Fr. Pacwa: AND FATHER, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMEND MY SPIRIT. >> AND WE CAN GO ON. AND VARIOUS TIMES THAT HE QUOTES THE PSALMS. WE ALMOST DON'T NEED TO GO ANY FURTHER THAN THAT. WE WILL. BUT JESUS PRAYED THE PSALMS AND IF HE'S THE MODEL OF ALL PRAYER, HOW COULD WE NOT WANT TO PRAY THE PSALMS. I REMEMBER, GROWING UP, AND THIS WAS BEFORE VATICAN II SPREAD THE TEACHING THAT LAY PEOPLE ARE ALSO INVITED TO PRAYER THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. AND HE HAD A CUSTOM, SHE WAS FROM A LARGE FAMILY AND SHE KEPT THE BIBLE ON THE BED STAND. AND EVERY NIGHT SHE READ ONE OF THE PSALMS BEFORE SHE QUICKLY WOULD FALL ASLEEP FROM TIREDNESS. AND WHEN SHE FINISHED THE 150, SHE WOULD START OVER AGAIN. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL INSTINCT TO SAY, THERE'S A RICHNESS HERE MOUNT PSALMS AND I WANT THIS TO BE PART OF MY LIFE. WITH THE COUNCIL NOW, AND THE SUBSEQUENT POPES, YOU HAVE, WHAT I WOULD CALL A QUIET THREAD OF WARM INVITATION TO THE LAY PEOPLE JUST TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IS THEIR PRAYER TOO. THEY ARE INVITED TO PRAY IT IN WAYS, AS I SAID, THAT FITS INTO THEIR VOCATION AND CIRCUMSTANCES. THAT'S ONE THING. AND I'LL JUST MENTION ONE MORE. WE'LL PROBABLY GET TO OTHERS AS WE GO ALONG. WELL, IN THE SAME WAY, WE ALSO HAD A FAMILY PRACTICE THAT DURING ADVENT, FOR SUPPER, ALL THE CHILDREN GATHERED AROUND THE TABLE. AND THE ADVENT CANDLES WOULD BE LIT ON THE WREATH. THEN, MY MOM WOULD READ JUST THE OPENING PRAYER FROM THE CURRENT SUNDAY OF ADVENT, WHAT WE CALL THE COLLECT NOW. AND I NEVER HAVE FORGOTTEN IT. I REMEMBER SOME OF THE WORDS. STIR UP, O LORD, YOUR POWER AND COME. WHAT SHE WAS DOING THERE WAS LINKING OUR FAMILY PRAYER, OUR DAILY PRAYER TO THE LITURGICAL PRAYER OF THE CHURCH. WHICH IS A VERY BEAUTIFUL INSTINCT WITH REGARD TO PRAYER. NOW, WHAT IF THAT WERE AMPLIFIED TO PRAYING, SAY, MORNING PRAYER FROM THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS OR EVENING PRAYER OR NIGHT PRAYER. WHAT HAPPENS AS YOU PRAY THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL PRAYER COMES CLOSER AND CLOSER TO THE PUBLIC PRAYER OF THE CHURCH WHICH STRENGTHENS OUR INDIVIDUAL PRAYER A GREAT DEAL, AND STRENGTHENS OUR DAILY BONDS WITH THE CHURCH. TODAY, THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT THING FOR US. ALWAYS IS. BUT I WOULD SAY, TODAY, IN ITS OWN WAY, SUCH AN IMPORTANT THING TO FEEL MORE AND MORE AND MORE THAT WE ARE LIVING THE DAILY LIFE OF THE CHURCH WHICH IS CENTERED FIRSTLY UPON THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, THE LITURGY. >> Fr. Pacwa: I THINK THAT'S N AN IMPORTANT POINT. WE ARE SEEING DURING THE LAST DAYS OF ADVENT, THE FAMOUS O ANTIPHONS THAT ARE USED IN THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS ARE THE SAME 0 ANTIPHONS FOR THE LITURGY THAT DAY, WITH THE GOSPEL. AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF OTHER LINKS THAT GO ON WITH THE LITURGICAL SEASON, THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS FOLLOWS THE LITURGICAL SEASON. SO, YOU ARE PRAYING IN CONSONANCE WITH THE LITURGICAL SEASONS, WITH THE SAINTS, SOLEMNITIES AND SO ON. AND THESE ARE ALL PART OF IT. AND WE'RE JOINING THE PRAYER WE DO FROM THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS AND IT FEEDS INTO THE MASS AND FEEDS OFF THE MASS. THAT'S ONE OF THE POINTS THAT YOU BRING OUT VERY WELL. THERE'S A BACK AND FORTH OF SPIRITUAL NOURISHMENT OF THE WORD OF GOD OUTSIDE OF MASS FEEDING INTO THE MASS >> Guest: VERY MUCH. LET'S TAKE TWO CASES. HERE'S A PERSON WHO WOULD LOVE TO GET TO DAILY MASS. BUT JUST CAN'T DO IT, SAY, OBLIGATIONS OF WORK, FAMILY, OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. HIS CHOICES ARE NOT EITHER SIMPLY TO GET TO MASS AND THEREBY SHARE THE LITURGY OF THE DAY WITH THE CHURCH OR SIMPLY HAVE TO FOREGO ANY PARTICIPATION IN THE DAILY LITURGY. HERE'S THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS WHICH HE CAN PRAY AT HOME OR IN THE DIGITAL FORMS, FOR EXAMPLE. LISTENING TO THEM IN THE CAR AS HE DRIVES TO AND FROM WORK >> Fr. Pacwa: AND THERE ARE PROGRAMS, APPS THAT YOU CAN GET FOR THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. IF YOU ARE, YOUR VEHICLE IS SO INTELLIGENT THAT IT COMMUNICATES WITH YOUR PHONE, YOU CAN ACTUALLY PRAY IT OUT LOWERED, IS THAT CORRECT? >> Guest: SURE, SO MANY OF US ARE DOING THAT. WE MAY BE LISTENING TO THE ROSARY PRAYING IT AS BEST WE CAN, AS WE DRIVE, IF THAT'S THE ONLY TIME WE CAN SAY IT. OR LISTENING TO A PODCAST FROM EWTN, FOR EXAMPLE, SAY, AS WE DRIVE IN THE CAR. WHY WOULDN'T THAT BE THE 8-10 MINUTES OF MORNING PRAYER OR EVENING PRAYER GOING BACK AND FORTH TO PICK UP THE CHILDREN AFTER SCHOOL. ANY OF THESE KINDS OF THINGS. SO THERE'S A CENTRAL PART OF ON GOING DAILY RICH PART OF THE PRAYER EVEN WHEN DAILY MASS IS NOT PROBLEM AND BRINGING THAT INTO OUR LIVES. AND LET'S TAKE THAT TO THE PART THAT DAILY MASS IS POSSIBLE. AND FITTING IN THE PRAYER. I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, GOING TO DAILY MASS, HAVING FORMAL TIMES FOR PRAYER, SCRIPTURE, ROSARY, WHATEVER. AND THEN SOMETHING IN US WISHES THAT THAT CONTACT WITH THE LORD THAT IS SO BLESSED, LET'S SAY, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY, WOULD NOT FADE AS THE HOURS OF THE DAY GO ALONG. BUT THAT WE KEEP IT ALIVE, LIVING THE ACTIVITY OF THE DAY IN COMMUNION WITH THE LORD. SO, HERE'S THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, AND PRECISELY WHY THE CHURCH USES THE WORDS, OF THE HOURS. IT REALLY DOES NOT TAKE AN HOUR >> Fr. Pacwa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uest: SO, LET'S GET PRACTICAL ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE'RE SPEAKING OF THE LAY VOCATION. HERE'S A MAN WHOSE MORNING IS VERY BUSY OR A WOMAN AS SHE GETS UP. MAYBE HE OR SHE CAN MAKE SEVEN OR EIGHT MINUTES TO SAY MORNING PRAYER BEFORE THE MORNING ACTIVITY STARTS. THAT'S A VERY BEAUTIFUL THING. BUT MAYBE IT'S SO DIFFICULT THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE. SO, HE PLAYS THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS AUDIO FROM AN APP ON HIS PHONE IN THE CAR AS HE DRIVES TO WORK, PRAY IT THAT WAY AS BEST HE'S ABLE. I REMEMBER ONE MAN TELLING ME THAT THE WAY THAT HE WOULD PRAY IT IS TO HAVE IT PRAYING AS A BACKGROUND AS HE WENT ABOUT HIS MORNING TASKS, GETTING HIS WORK STARTED IN THE MORNING. LET'S SAY, TAKE ON THE OTHER END, EVENING PRAYER. PAUL VI, ST. PAUL VI IN 1974 WHEN HE GAVE US THE DOCUMENT ON THE DEVOTION TO MARY, IN THE POST CONCILIAR CHURCH, I READ IT AS A SEMINARIAN AND HE SAYS, I NEVER FORGET IT IN THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS BECAUSE IT WAS SO DRAMATICALLY NEW FOR ME. IN THAT DOCUMENT, HE SPEAKS OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS AS THE HIGH POINT THAT FAMILY PRAYER CAN REACH. IT REALLY CAUGHT MY ATTENTION. IT WAS YEARS BEFORE I REALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE WAS SAYING. HE REALLY MEANT IT. EVEN SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IF ONE OF US HAVE HAS A FAMILY AND THE CHURCH IS SAYING THAT FAMILY PRAYER IS BEAUTIFUL. AND HE PRAISES THE FAMILY ROSARY VERY HIGHLY, FOR EXAMPLE. AND THEN GOES ON TO SAY, THE HIGH POINT THAT THE FAMILY CAN ACTUALLY REACH IS THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. IT'S WHEN THE I HEAR THE CHURCH SAY THESE KIND OF THINGS, THAT'S WHAT MOTIVATES ME TO WRITE THESE BOOKS, THIS BOOK, OR TO SAY THESE KIND OF THINGS. IT'S NOT PERIPHERAL OR MARGINAL KIND OF THING, BUT IT'S AT THE VERY RICH HEART OF WHAT THE CHURCH OFFERS US AND SPECIFICALLY IN THE LAY VOCATION AND FAMILIES. IT'S WHAT I CALL IN THE BOOK, THE SLEEPING GIANT. BUT THE SLEEPING GIANT IS AWAKENING NOW AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL TO SEE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FAMILY MAY GET TOGETHER FOR SUPPER -- AND WELL, I MENTIONED THE POPE'S DOCUMENT. BECAUSE HE SUGGESTED EVEN SHORTENED FORMS OF THESE DIFFERENT TIMES OF PRAYER AS A WAY OF ENGAGING WITH THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IN THE LAY VOCATION. SO, THE MONTHLY MAGNIFICAT PUBLICATION DOES IT BEAUTIFULLY. INSTEAD OF THREE PSALMS FOR MORNING PRAYER, YOU HAVE ONE AND THE SAME FOR EVENING PRAYER. SO, WE COULD WELL A HUSBAND AND WIFE, AT THE END OF THE MEAL IN THE EVENING, TOGETHER WITH THE CHILDREN, IF THERE ARE CHILDREN IN THE HOME, INSTEAD OF SIMPLY DISPERSING AT THE END OF SUPPER, JUST SAYING FOR ANOTHER FIVE, SEVEN MINUTES AND PRAYING THE SHORTENED FORMED FORM OF THE EVENING PRAYER. WHAT IF A FAMILY DOES IT DAY AFTER DAY. IT'S A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, AND I DOUBT THERE WOULD BE TOO MANY PAM LEAST WHERE THAT WOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED, AT LEAST IF NOT ON SUNDAY, IF NOT OTHER DAYS. SO, IF I MAY, I'LL JUST PUT OUT A WAGER HERE. I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT ANY FAMILY LISTENING CONSIDER AS A PRACTICE OF ADVENT, FOUR WEEKS OF ADVENT OR SIX WEEKS OF LENT. NOT THAT YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEN. TRYING THIS PRACTICE, AT THE END OF SUPPER, PRAYING THE SHORTENED FORM OF EVENING PRAYER FROM THE MAGNIFICAT, WHICH YOU CAN HAVE IN THE HARD COPY OR ON THE DIGITAL FORM ON YOUR PHONE. AND MY WAGER IS THIS, AND IF A HUSBAND AND WIFE OR A FAMILY DOES THIS FOR THAT MANY WEEKS, THEY DON'T STOP BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE EXPERIENCED THE BLESSING THAT THIS PRAYER BRINGS INTO THE FAMILY. THE POPE IS SPEAKING THE TRUTH WHEN HE SAYS, THIS IS THE HIGH POINT THAT THE FAMILY PRAYER CAN REACH. THAT'S AN INVITATION TO START TOMORROW, NEXT WEEK. AND IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR THOSE KEY MOMENTS IN THE CHURCH'S LIFE TO COME, FOR SOMETHING TO DEEPEN OUR SPIRITUAL PRACTICE, HERE'S ONE THING TO CONSIDER. >> Fr. Pacwa: SURE. I THINK THIS WOULD BE A VERY GOOD IDEA. IT'S SIMPLY NOT JUMPING INTO, I GOT TO TAKE OFF THE FOUR VOLUMES. NO. YOU CAN GET IT ON YOUR APP, ON THE PHONE, THE MAGNIFICAT HAS ONE OF THOSE AND IT'S A SHORT FORM. AND OF COURSE, IF YOUR CHILDREN CAN'T READ, DON'T ASK THEM TO READ IT. BUT AS THEY LEARN TO READ AND SUCH, IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE THE CHILDREN INVOLVED IN READING IT, TOO. AS WELL AS THE PARENTS. I HAVE FRIENDS, MARRIED COUPLE, WHO WOULD GO TO BREAKFAST VERY EARLY, THE HUSBAND HAD TO BE AT WORK EXTREMELY EARLY, 4:00 IN THE MORNING. SO, THEY WENT TO AN ALL-NIGHT DINER FOR BREAKFAST AND WHILE THEY WAITED FOR THEIR ORDER, THEY PRAYED THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. AND THIS WAS, THERE WERE NOT MANY OTHER CUSTOMERS IN THERE TO BOTHER. SO, THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND SOMETIMES, YEAH, THE CUSTOMERS WOULD JOIN THEM OR ASK THEM, HEY, PRAY FOR ME. I GOT STUFF GOING ON IN MY LIFE. SO, THEY WOULD DO THAT EVERYDAY. AND IT WAS JUST PARTED OF THE -- PART OF THE WARPONED WOLF -- PARP AND WOLF OF THE DAY. AND IT'S WHAT WE DO, AS PRIESTS, TO ORGANIZE OUR DAY. >> WELL, I THINK THAT WAS A WISE DECISION ON THEIR PART. IT'S SUSTAINABLE. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY SUSTAINED IT. >> OH, NO, NO, THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS, UNTIL THE HUSBAND PASSED AWAY. AND THEY DID THIS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. AND OF COURSE, THE WIFE CONTINUED. >> AND I WOULD SAY THIS IS A PRINCIPLE WITH REGARDS TO A LIFE OF PRAYER. IF WE'RE TAKING NEW STEPS IN THE LIFE OF PRAYER, IT'S BETTER TO BEGIN WITH LESS THAN WITH MORE. IT'S BETTER TO BEGIN WITH A SMALLER AMOUNT OF, IN A WAY THAT'S SUSTAINABLE, AND PERMITS US, WHEN WE FEEL READY FOR IT, TO ADD MORE THAN IT IS TO SAY, I'M GOING TO BUY THE FOUR VOLUMES WITH THEIR THOUSANDS PAGES, RIBBONS AND SO ON, AND I'M GOING TO DIVE INTO THIS FROM DAY ONE. WHICH IS UNLIKELY TO BE SUSTAINABLE. AND I WOULD SAY, THE SHORTENED FORM OF MORNING PRAYER, EVENING PRAYER, AND NIGHT PRAYER WOULD BE PROBABLY MORE THAN A PERSON SHOULD BEGIN WITH. >> Fr. Pacwa: WE ALL STARTED OFF WITH MILK, MOVED TO CEREAL AND THEN EVENTUALLY MOVING TO STEAK. BUT IT TAKES A WHILE BEFORE YOU CAN GET THAT AND CHEW THAT MUCH. THAT'S A GOOD, EXTREMELY IMPORTANT BIT OF GOOD ADVICE. START OFF WITH WHAT'S EASY. AND THEN, INCREASE AS YOU MATURE IN PRAYER LIFE. >> I THINK IF WE TAKE ONE, EVEN SMALL STEP WITH THE SPIRIT, CAPITAL S, HOLY SPIRIT, IF WE TAKE EVEN ONE SMALL STEP WITH THE SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT WILL LET US KNOW AND WILL HOPE TO US, THE SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH. AND COME GENTLY AND EASILY WITHOUT STRAIN. WHAT A PERSON WOULD WATCH FOR IS SOMETHING LIKE THIS. I'VE BEEN SAYING THE SHORTENED FORM OF MORNING PRAYER BEFORE LEAVING FOR WORK OR AFTER THE CHILDREN ARE ON THE BUS GOING TO SCHOOL. I LOVE IT. BUT SOMEHOW NOW IT DOESN'T SEEM ENOUGH. MAYBE IT'S TIME TO CONSIDER DOING THE SAME THING FOR A FEW MINUTES WITH EVENING PRAYER WITH A SHORTENED FORM. AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WILL GROW. AND THEN, A PERSON WILL FIND HIS OR HER EQUILIBRIUM WHERE THIS IS THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. WHEN POPE BENEDICT EXTENDED HIS INVITATION TO THE LAY PEOPLE TO READ THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, HE SPECIFIED SPECIFICALLY, MORNING PRAYER, EVENING PRAYER, AND THE NIGHT PRAYER AS PLACE TO SAY BEGIN. AND NOT ALL THREE AT ONCE. BUT THESE WOULD BE THE HINGE MOMENTS, ESPECIALLY MORNING AND EVENING PRAYER. SORT OF A NATURAL PLACE TO BEGIN. >> Fr. Pacwa: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. SO FOLKS KNOW, IT'S NOT ONLY THE ROMAN RITE LITURGY OF THE HOURS THAT'S ON THE INTERNET, YOU CAN GET THE MARONITE AND I ASSUME SOME OF THE OTHER RITES AS WELL. THE DIFFERENT RITES HAVE DIFFERENT SHAPES TO THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. BUT THEY ALL HAVE IT. BECAUSE THIS IS ANCIENT IN THE CHURCH. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS JUST INVENTED. THIS GOES BACK TO THE EARLIEST CENTURIES AS PEOPLE PREPARED FOR SUNDAY MASS, THEY BEGAN VIGILS WITH SAYING THE PSALMS. AND EVENTUALLY, THAT DEVELOPED INTO THE FULL LITURGY OF THE HOURS. >> Guest: IT HAS VERY DEEP ROOTS. I CAN SAY THAT YOU WOULD TRACE THE ROOTS BACK ALL THE WAY TO THE OLD TESTAMENT, WHERE THE JEWISH PRAYED THE PSALMS AND IT WAS A PRACTICE THAT THE CHRISTIANS CONTINUED. AND THEN WITH CONSTANTINE, THEY CONTINUED IN THE CHURCHES. AND WE HAVE A PRACTICE OF WHAT THEY DID, DEVELOPED MORNING HYMNS AND EVENING HYMNS. PEOPLE WOULD GATHER IN THE CHURCH. IF THERE WAS A BISHOP, HE WOULD LEAD, IF NOT, A PRIEST. AND IT SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR TO OUR PRESENT DAY LITURGY OF THE HOURS. THERE WOULD BE A BEGINNING, A HYMN WOULD BE SUNG, THE PSALMS WERE NEVER VARIED. MOST PEOPLE COULDN'T READ BUT THEY LEARNED THEM BY HEART AND THEY JOINED IN THE CHANTING OF THE PSALMS. BRIEF READING FROM THE SCRIPTURE, SHORT HOMILY AND THEN THEY DISPERSED AND GO TO THEIR ACTIVITY AND RETURN IN THE EVENING. AND AROUND THE MEDITERRANEAN BASIS WE HAVE EVIDENCE OF THIS IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PLACES. SO, VERY EARLY ON, THIS WAS ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD TO BE A CHURCH OF THE LAY PEOPLE, LAY PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD AS THEY SAY. AND LATER, IT PASSED, ALMOST, I SAY, CONSCIOUSLY SAY ALMOST BECAUSE NEVER COMPLETELY. BUT IT PASSED ALMOST COMPLETELY INTO THE MONASTERIES AND REMAINED THERE FOR THE NEXT 1500 YEARS. SUNDAY VESPERS NEVER COMPLETELY DIED IN THE PARISHES. THAT WAS ONE VESTIGE OF THIS -- VESTIGE OF THIS PEOPLES' OFFICE. >> YOU SEE VESTIGES OF IT IN PROTESTANT CHURCHES AND THEY HAVE A SUNDAY NIGHT PRAYER SERVICE. NOT ONLY THE HIGH LITURGICAL, LIKE EPISCOPALIANS, BUT BAPTISTS AND OTHERS LIKE THAT. IT WAS A STRONG INSTINCT FOR US TO WORSHIP THE LORD AND SANCTIFY, ESPECIALLY ON SUNDAY. >> THERE IS A PILGRIM WHO VISITED SAINT JOHN VIANNEY'S PARISH AT THE HEIGHT OF THE CROWDS COMING. HE CHRONICLED A SUNDAY IN THE PARISH. PEOPLE CAME TO MASS IN THE MORNING. THEN, AROUND 1:00 IN THE AFTERNOON, THE BELLS RANG AGAIN, CHURCH FILLED UP AND PEOPLE PRAYED WHAT WE CALL EVENING PRAYER FROM THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. AND THEN, THE BELLS RING AT NIGHT AGAIN AND THE PEOPLE GATHERED ONCE MORE FOR A PRAYER JUST BEFORE NIGHT FALL AND A BRIEF CATECHETICAL TALK. THAT WAS A REAL LORD'S DAY. IF SUNDAY, AND THIS IS EXPLICITLY IN THE COUNCIL TO RENEW THE PRACTICE OF SUNDAY VESPERS. SOME PARISHES ARE DOING IT. IT'S BEAUTIFUL WHEN YOU SEE IT. SUNDAY, WHEN WE GO TO MASS IN THE MORNING AND THEN PERHAPS RETURN IN THE EARLY EVENING FOR THE SINGING OF VESPERS WHICH CAN BE A VERY BEAUTIFUL THING, SINGING OF VESPERS, EVENING PRAYER, THAT REALLY STARTS TO FEEL LIKE A LORD'S DAY >> Fr. Pacwa: YEAH, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. NO PROBLEM WITH TAKING TIME TO MAYBE WATCH A SPORTS GAME. BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO WATCH EVERY SPORTS GAME. WE NEED TO NOURISH OUR SOUL RESTING AND RELAXATION IS GREAT. BUT ALSO, NOURISHMENT OF THE SOUL IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BREAK NOW. WE'LL BE BACK IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES. AND WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, AS WELL AS THOSE FROM OUR STUDIO AUDIENCE. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH FATHER TIMOTHY GALLAGHER. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: GOOD. WELCOME! AND I WANT TO KNOW, FATHER, ARE YOU READY FOR SOME QUESTIONS? >> Guest: ABSOLUTELY >> Fr. Pacwa: LET'S START OFF WITH MARGIE. MARGIE, WHERE ARE YOU CALLING US FROM? >> CINCINNATI, OHIO >> Fr. Pacwa: OKAY. CINCINNATIY. EAT SOME GRADERS ICE CREAM FOR ME. >> Voice: WELL, I CAN'T, BECAUSE I'M ALLERGIC TO MILK. >> THEY ARE GOING TO SERVE GRADERS ICE CREAM AT THE SECOND COMING. >> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. ALONG WITH HERSHEY'S CHOCOLATE. NOW, MY QUESTION IS, WHEN I DO THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, MORNING AND EVENING PRAYER, EVERY WEEK, THEY ARE THE SAME PSALMS AND YOU DON'T GET TO COVER ALL THE PSALMS. CAN I INTERCHANGE SOME OF THE PSALMS FOR ONE OF THE ONES IN THE BIBLE >> Fr. Pacwa: WAIT A SECOND HERE. OKAY. WHICH VERSION OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS ARE YOU USING? >> I USE ONE OF THE APPS. >> Fr. Pacwa: AHA. >> Guest: TELL US WHICH ONE? DIVINEMERCY.ORG. >> OH, I MEAN, DIVINEOFFICE.ORG. >> YOU ARE ACTUALLY PRAYING THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IN THE WAY THAT THE CHURCH GIVES IT. SO, IT'S EXACTLY THE WAY THE PRIEST, DEACON OR ANYBODY ELSE IS PRAYING IT. NOW, YOU WILL SEE THAT THE PSALMS REPEAT ON FOUR WEEK REPEATING CYCLE. IN THAT CYCLE, YOU HAVE ALMOST ALL OF THE PSALMS. I THINK THE CHURCH HAS LAID THAT OUT FOR US. AND THE DIVINE OFFICE.ORG IS AN EXCELLENT SOURCE TO PRAY IT. >> Fr. Pacwa: SO, CHECK AGAIN, THERE MAY BE A GLITCH THAT YOU ARE GETTING. >> Guest: AND I WOULD SAY THERE ARE SOME TECHNICAL ISSUES WITH DIVINE OFFICE DOT ORG AND MAYBE THAT'S A PROBLEM. IF YOU ARE READING THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS AND NOT LISTENING TO THE AUDIO IN THE DIVINE OFFICE DOT ORG, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO DOWNLOAD I BREVIARY. THERE'S NO GLITCHES AND IT'S VERY WELL DONE. IT'S FREE TOO >> Fr. Pacwa: GOOD PRICE, TOO. THERE'S A FOUR WEEK CYCLE AND BETWEEN ALL OF THE DIFFERENT WEEKS, WITH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT HOURS OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS COMBINED, YOU COVER EVERY SINGLE PSALM EXCEPT PSALM 109. THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THEY SKIP. AND THE REASON, POPE PAUL VI SUGGESTED THEY SKIP IT BECAUSE IT'S A LONG LIST OF CURSES AGAINST BAD PEOPLE OF THE AND HE WANTED TO CLEAN THAT OUT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND READ PSALM 109, YOU CAN DO THAT. BUT THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO GET THE CURSES AGAINST THE BAD PEOPLE GOING. THEY ARE USUALLY CURSING US, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROTESTS. >> Guest: SINCE THAT ISSUE HAS ARISEN, LET'S ADDRESS THAT. EVEN OTHER PSALMS THAT ARE INCLUDED, SOME OF THE MORE VIOLENT PASSAGES HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED FOR THE SAME REASON IN THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. BUT ENOUGH OF THEM ARE STILL THERE, PEOPLE WONDER HOW CAN I PRAY, LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, PSALM 137 WHICH THE PRAYER ASKED HAPPY WILL BE HE WHO SMASHES THE CHILDREN AGAINST THE ROCKS, THE CAPTORS OF OUR CHILDREN >> Fr. Pacwa: IT'S A PSALM FROM THE ISRAELITES, WHILE THEY ARE LIVING IN BABYLON, IN THE BABYLONIAN EXILE AND THEY WANT BAD STUFF TO HAPPEN TO THE BABYLONIANS BECAUSE THE BABYLONIANS HAD DONE IT TO THEM. THIS WAS VERY MUCH, EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH MENTALITY. >> Guest: SO, HOW DOES A CHRISTIAN TODAY PRAY THAT PSALM? AND IF YOU LOOK AT ST. AUGUSTINE'S COMMENTARY ON PSALM 137, HE SAYS SIMPLY AND BEAUTIFULLY, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO SMASH THE CHILDREN OF THE ENEMY AGAINST THE ROCK. HE SAYS, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE ARE EVIL DESIRES. AND WE'RE ASKING THAT THEY BE SHATTERED, THAT THEY BE PUT TO DEATH RIGHT AT THEIR VERY BEGINNING BEFORE THE TEMPTATION CAN GAIN POWER, BEFORE THE EVIL INCLINATION CAN COME TO HOLD. AND THAT'S THE WAY WE PRAY. I HAVE COME TO LOVE THIS OVER THE YEARS. OTHERWISE, I DON'T THINK IT'S A PRAYER I WOULD EVER THINK TO MAKE. THAT IS, THERE ARE ENEMIES IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE, SATAN, SPIRITUAL INCLINATION AND ALL THE REST. SO, WHEN WE PRAY THAT ENEMIES BE DESTROYED, PUT TO DEATH AND BE SHATTERED, WHAT WE'RE PRAYING AS CHRISTIANS, THESE SPIRITUAL ENEMIES BE PUT TO DEATH IN US AND AROUND US IN THE WORLD. THAT'S REALLY A BEAUTIFUL PRAYER >> Fr. Pacwa: IF YOU THINK OF BABYLONIAN CHILDREN, LEAVE THEM ALONE, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT, MAY THE ADDICTIVE DRUGS BE SMASHED. THAT'S A CHILD OF THE SINFULNESS OF OUR CULTURE. INSTEAD OF THE BABYLONIANS, THAT'S THE DRUG CULTURE, DRUG LORDS. WELL, THEIR CHILDREN ARE THE DRUGS DESTROYING OUR PEOPLES' LIVES. OR THE PORNOGRAPHY INDUSTRY AND THE HUMAN TRAFFICKING INDUSTRY. MAY THAT ALL BE PUT TO DEATH. YOU WANT THAT BAD, EVIL BEHAVIOR PUT TO DEATH BUT NOT REAL PEOPLE. JUST THE SINS. >> Guest: SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF A PERSON IS STRUGGLING AND REACHED THE POINT OF GROWTH IN HIS OR HER SPIRITUAL LIFE AND WANTS TO TAKE NEW STEPS TO GROW TOWARD GOD BUT EXPERIENCES, AS WE ALL DO, CERTAIN RESISTANCE, WELL, MAY THEY BE PUT TO DEATH. MAY THE DOOR BE OPENED AND MAY I GROW IN FREEDOM TO TAKE THESE NEW STEPS TO MOVE CLOSER TO GOD. THAT CAN BE PRAYED PERSONALLY. IT COULD BE PRAYED ON BEHALF OTHERS STRUGGLING WITH ADDICTIONS OR ANY OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED. SO, THOSE PRAYERS, LIKE EVERYTHING IN THE PSALMS, IS BROUGHT TO THEIR FULFILLMENT IN CHRIST AND IN CHRISTIANITY AND CAN BE PRAYED VERY RICHLY >> Fr. Pacwa: OKAY. WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE. WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> I'M FROM TOLEDO OHIO AND I'M A DEACON IN TOLEDO. >> Fr. Pacwa: DEACON GOOD TO HAVE YOU. WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: AS YOU KNOW, I'M OBLIGATED TO PRAY LITURGY OF THE HOURS AND I FIND IN THE EVENINGS, I'M JUST GOING TO PRAY IT FOR MYSELF. I DON'T SEEM TO HAVE A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF MOTIVATION AT TIMES. IS THERE ANY KIND OF RECOMMENDATION THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR MOTIVATING ME >> Guest: I'LL SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE THING I WOULD SAY, THE EARLIER WE BEGIN THE PRAYER IN THE DAY, THE MORE LIKELY WE ARE TO COMPLETE IT. AND SOMETIMES YOU HEAR IT SAID, THE ONLY THING WE NEED TO DO IS TO HAVE A DAILY LIFE OF PRAYER IS GET TO BED ON TIME AT NIGHT. THAT ALLOWS US TO GET UP IN THE MORNING AND PRAY FOR THE DAY, THE TIME WHEN MANY OF US ARE FRESHEST AND PRAY WITH FRUITFULNESS. >> AND WITHOUT DISTRACTIONS. >> PEOPLE CALLING YOUR PHONE AUTOMATICALLY DON'T DO IT THAT EARLY! >> Guest: AND THE SECOND THING I WOULD SAY, SOMETHING THAT I WOULD PROPOSE ACTUALLY TO ANYBODY WHO IS WONDERING IS THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS A FORM OF PRAYER THAT I MIGHT CONSIDER. AND I WOULD ALSO SAY THIS TO OUR DEACON WHO HAS JUST ASKED THE QUESTION, ANYONE WHO IS PRAYING IT, FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS, UNTIL HE WENT TO THE LORD, I HAD A WONDERFUL JESUIT AS A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR, FATHER FLAHERTY AND HE TOLD ME DURING HIS LIFE HE HAD A PRACTICE EVERY YEAR, AT THE BEGINNING OF ADVENT READING THE INTRODUCTION, THE GENERAL INSTRUCTION FOR THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS WHICH IS THE KEY DOCUMENT FOR UNDERSTANDING THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. IT TOOK ME A NUMBER OF YEARS TO IMITATE HIM. AND WHEN I DID, I WAS REALLY GRATEFUL THAT I DID. BECAUSE WHAT IT DOES, IT REAWAKENS IN US, CREATES OR REAWAKENS IN US A DEEP UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE DOING WHEN WE PRAY THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. HERE'S MY PROPOSAL. IF ANY OF US LOVES THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS AND WANTS TO BE FAITHFUL BUT ENCOUNTERS A STRUGGLE TO STAY WITH IT DAY AFTER DAY, READ THE FIRST 20 PAGES, THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH. IT'S THE FIRST TWO CHAPTERS, FIRST 20 PAGES OF THE DOCUMENT. YOU CAN FIND IT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. YOU CAN GO ONLINE BECAUSE IT'S ON A NUMBER OF WEB SITE, THE GENERAL INSTRUCTION FOR THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. AND THE SLOW, MEDITATIVE, THOUGHTFUL READING OF THE 20 PAGES, I THINK WILL ANSWER THIS KIND OF ISSUE. ONCE WE REALIZE THE TRUE RICHNESS OF WHAT'S GOING ON WHEN WE PRAY THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, THEN WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE IT. WE DON'T WANT TO MISS IT. IT'S LIKE WHEN WE AWAKEN TO WHAT HAPPENS AT DAILY MASS WE DON'T WANT TO MISS THAT OR LOSE THAT. AND I THINK THIS IS PARTLY A PRACTICAL QUESTION OF DAILY SCHEDULE AND PART OF A FORMATIONAL QUESTION TO UNDERSTANDING AND RENEWING THAT >> Fr. Pacwa: AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IS NOT MY PERSONAL PRAYER. I USUALLY WILL BEGIN MY PERSONAL HOLY HOUR WITH THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. BUT THEN I CONTINUE ON WITH MY MEDITATION. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DO, ESPECIALLY FOR MORNING PRAYER, LESS SO THAN EVENING PRAYER BECAUSE LATER IN THE DAY, SO MANY OTHER THINGS GOING ON. BUT THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS IS NOT THE SAME AS MY PERSONAL PROPER PRAYER. YOU BRING THAT UP NICELY IN YOUR BOOK. THINK TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS THE PRAYER OF THE CHURCH. I'M PRAYING AS A PRIEST, AND A DEACON, WHO HAS THE SAME COMMITMENT, I'M PRAYING FOR THE WHOLE CHURCH, NOT MY PERSONAL PRAYER. SOMETIMES FOR US GUYS, I THINK, WE DO WELL TO REMEMBER THAT WE'RE SOLDIERS IN A SPIRITUAL WAR. AND THERE ARE TIMES IN WHICH INDIVIDUAL SOLDIERS MAY BE ISOLATED AS CENTURIES BUT NOT SEPARATED FROM THE ARMY BECAUSE OF THAT. AND WE'RE ALL REMAINING AT OUR SPIRITUAL DUTY BEING ALERT ON WATCH, PRAYERFUL AND THAT'S OUR DUTY. IF YOU ARE A LONE SNIPER, YOU ARE ALWAYS READY. IF YOU ARE A LONE CENTURY, YOU ARE ALWAYS READY. AND BEING ABOUT THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT IN OUR OWN CONVERSATION, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IN THE 1970S, IS THAT A LOT OF PRIESTS DIDN'T TAKE THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS SERIOUSLY AND STOPPED. IT BECAME COMMON IN THE 1970S, I WAS ORDAINED BACK IN THE, IN 1976. IT WAS CONSIDERED ODD FOR ME THAT I DID SAY THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. NOT MANY DID. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS UNCONNECTED TO THAT BEING THE PERIOD WHEN THESE SCANDALS GOT GOING ON A BIGGER SCALE. YOU KNOW, YOU LOWER YOUR GUARD BY NOT PRAYING FOR THE CHURCH. AND ANY CENTURY THAT FALLS ASLEEP ON DUTY IS ENDANGERING HIMSELF AND EVERYBODY ELSE. I THINK WE NEED TO SEE THAT THAT PRAYER IS IMPORTANT. LET'S GO TO ANOTHER CALLER. HELLO, DAVID? >> Voice: YES. >> Fr. Pacwa: WHERE ARE YOU CALLING FROM. >> I'M CALLING FROM NEW YORK CITY, THE BELLY OF THE BEAST. >> Fr. Pacwa: BLESS YOUR HEART. WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: MY QUESTION WAS GOING TO BE ABOUT THE HISTORY AND THE ORIGINS OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. I THINK YOU ANSWERED THAT A BIT AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD, THE EXACT NATURE OF THE PRAYER. IS IT ONLY THE PSALMS OR ARE THERE ADDITIONAL PRAYERS? TOTAL PSALMS? PARTS OF PSALMS? AND HOW DOES THE CYCLE WORK? DOES IT CYCLE AND THEN START IN THE SAME ORDER? HOW DOES THAT ALL WORK? >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, OKAY. LET'S JUST START OFF WITH THE FIRST PART OF THAT, WHEN AND WHERE. THEY ARE ALREADY SECOND CENTURY THAT YOU SEE CHRISTIANS DOING VIGILS. >> Guest: AS WE SAID EARLIER, REMOTELY, THIS GOES BACK TO THE OLD TESTAMENT. THEN, IN THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES, YOU SEE THE APOSTLES PRAYING AT CERTAIN HOURS. THEY GO UP TO THE TEMPLE AT THE SIXTH HOUR FOR EXAMPLE, OR THE NINTH HOUR OR THE THIRD HOUR >> Fr. Pacwa: AS THEY CONTINUE ON WITH PRACTICES THAT THEY LEARNED IN JUDAISM. >> AND THE ROOTS OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS ARE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE JEWISH ORIGINS OF CHRISTIANITY. AND THEN, AS WE MENTIONED, IT CRYSTALLIZED AS A CHRISTIAN PRAYER WITH THE PEACE OF CONSTANTINE WHEN THEY COULD GATHER IN PEACE TIMES AND IN PUBLIC. AND THAT, WITH THE EXPANSION OF MONASTICISM WHERE HOURS COULD BE ADDED, THEY WERE GETTING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND THE EARLY HOURS OF THE MORNING, RAPIDLY PASSED INTO MONASTIC LIFE. AND THIS IS SUMMARIZING 2,000 YEARS IN JUST A COUPLE OF SENTENCES. BUT ESSENTIALLY, IT PASSED INTO THE CLERICAL LIFE AND THE RELIGIOUS LIFE IN WILL SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL. IT REMAINS VERY MUCH PART OF THAT LIFE BUT NOW EXPLICITLY OPEN AND THE INVITATION IS EXPLICITLY EXTENDED TO LAY PEOPLE TO PRAY PARTS OF IT, AS WELL. AND THERE'S A CHAPTER IN THE BOOK WHERE I GO THROUGH THIS IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL. BUT THE SECOND QUESTION I THINK, TOO, IS IMPORTANT. REALLY, WE DIDN'T START WITH THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. BUT I THINK AT SOME POINT, WE NEED TO SAY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT, WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS. VERY RAPIDLY, DAVID, TO YOUR QUESTION, THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS PROVIDES FIVE TIMES FOR PRAYER IN THE COURSE OF THE DAY IF A PERSON PRAYS ALL FIVE. RISING IN THE MORNING, AND LET ME START WITH THE SHORTENED FORMS, MAYBE FIVE, SEVEN, EIGHT MINUTES PRAYING THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY. IF A PERSON PRAYS DAYTIME PRAYER, IT MAY BE FOUR OR FIVE MINUTES. EVENING PRAYER AGAIN, FIVE TO EIGHT MINUTES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. NIGHT PRAYER, MAYBE FIVE MINUTES. SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THE OFFICE OF READINGS, IF A PERSON PRAYS THAT AND MEDITATIVELY, MAYBE 15-20 MINUTES. AND THAT PROBABLY COMES AFTER THE OTHER FORMS OF PRAYERS, OTHER HOURS OF PRAYER THAT WE JUST MENTIONED. AND DAVID, TO YOUR QUESTION AND AS FATHER MITCH SAID EARLIER, ALL OF THE PSALMS, BASICALLY ALL OF THE PSALMS ARE FOUND IN THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS. BUT IN ORDER TO MAKE IT MANAGEABLE, WHAT THE CHURCH DID, THEY SPREAD THEM OUT OVER A FOUR-WEEK, REPEATING CYCLE. FOUR WEEKS, YOU HAVE NEW PSALMS AND THEN AT THE END OF THE FOUR WEEKS, YOU GO BACK TO WEEK 1, WEEK 2, WEEK 3, AND WEEK 4. AND THEN BACK TO WEEK 1 >> Fr. Pacwa: AND THE LONG PSALM, PSALM 119, THE REALLY LONG PSALMS THAT'S DIVIDED UP INTO PARAGRAPHS OF 8 LINES EACH. AND THOSE ARE INCLUDED DURING THE DAYTIME PRAYER. YOU MAY DO THREE OF THOSE SEGMENTS ON A DAY. YOU ARE GOING TO COVER PSALM 119 BUT NOT AT ALL ONE SITTING >> Guest: RIGHT. SO, OVER ALL OF THE FOUR WEEKS, YOU HAVE ALL OF THAT. AND DAVID, I WOULD SAY, PROBABLY THE BEST WAY, IF OUR CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW HAS AWAKENED YOUR INTEREST TO KNOW MORE ABOUT IT AND FROM YOUR QUESTION, I'M GOING TO GUESS THAT IT HAS. THEN, I WOULD SAY, IF YOU WANT THE DIGITAL FORM, DOWNLOAD, I BREVIARY AND JUST TRY PRAYING MORNING PRAYER FROM THAT. OR YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE TO THE MAGNIFICAT EITHER IN HARD COPY OR EITHER THE CORRESPONDING FORM ON THE APP AND PRAY THE SHORTENED FORM. AND THE EXPERIENCE WILL GUIDE YOU. YOU ARE QUICKLY GOING TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS PRAYER >> Fr. Pacwa: MA'AM? WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> Voice: I'M FROM VICTORIA TEXAS >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, YOU ARE SOMETHING! [LAUGHTER] AND I LOVE THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS. THAT'S A GREAT, GREAT TOWN OVER THERE, TOO. SO, WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: WELL, THANK YOU FOR, FIRST OF ALL YOUR INVITATION TO PRAY. THAT WAS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED IN THAT CONTEXT. THE WHOLE DESCRIPTION OF ANCIENT IS VERY INTRIGUE TO GO ME. YOU MENTIONED THAT JESUS PRAYED THE PSALMS. COULD YOU EXPOUND ON THAT CONTEXT HOW THOSE INFLUENCES LED TO THE FORMATION OR THE PRACTICE OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS >> Guest: SO, AGAIN, IT'S REALLY BEGINNING WITH THE PSALMS, 150 PSALMS. YOU KNOW, ST. AUGUSTINE SAYS -- WELL, LET'S START WITH ST. IGNATIUS. OKAY. ST. IGNATIUS, WHEN HE CLARIFIES WHAT WE'RE HERE IN THE WORLD FOR. HE SAYS, MAN IS CREATED TO PRAISE, REVERENCE, AND SERVE LORD GOD OUR SAVIOR AND BY MEANS OF OUR SOUL. AND STRIKINGLY, THE THING HE SAYS, WE'RE HERE IN THE WORLD TO PRAISE GOD. THAT'S A POWERFUL THING. I WONDER HOW OFTEN WE ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT THAT. PRIMARILY WHAT WE'RE HERE IN THE WORLD TO DO IS PRAISE GOD. SO WHAT'S IT MEAN TO PRAISE GOD? IT MEANS TO RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT IF WE ARE IN THIS WORLD, IF WE HAVE LIFE, IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN LOVED FROM ALL ETERNITY AND BY A LOVING GOD BROUGHT INTO BEING BY A GIVEN TIME IN THIS WORLD. NOT ONLY CREATED BUT THEN REDEEMED. WHEN MANKIND SLIPPED AWAY FROM GOD, GOD HIMSELF CAME IN HIS SON, JESUS, TO SUFFER, DIE, RISE AGAIN FOR OUR SALVATION. AND WE'VE BEEN INCREDIBLY LOVED. WE ARE INCREDIBLY LOVED AND CALLED INTO AN ETERNITY OF JOYFUL LIFE WITH GOD. WHEN WE STOP TO THINK ABOUT THAT, SOMETHING IN OUR HEART WANTS TO SAY THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE WANT TO EXPRESS GRATITUDE. >> YOU CAN SEE A GORGEOUS SUNSET AND YOU CAN SAY, OH, PRETTY. OR YOU CAN SAY, OH, LORD, THANK YOU. IT'S NOT JUST A THING. IT'S THANKING THE ONE WHO MADE THESE THINGS >> Guest: INCLUDING THE ONE WHO MADE US AND EVERYTHING THAT WE POSSESS, LOVE, AND THAT GIVES JOY TO OUR LIFE. SO, THAT PRAISE IS AN AFFECTIONATE, REVERENT, AWE-FILLED, WARM APPRECIATION OF ALL THAT GOD HAS DONE FOR US. THAT'S WHAT PRAISE IS. IT'S RIGHT AT THE VERY HEART OF WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE IN THE WORLD. WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR IN THE HEART OF OUR FAITH IN THE WORLD, IN OUR RELIGION. HOW DO WE DO THAT? ST. AUGUSTINE SAYS, WE WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN HOW TO DO IT, WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD WORDS -- I THINK IT'S TRUE -- OF COURSE, WE HAVE PRAISE, WORSHIP AND DIFFERENT MUSIC BUT WE WOULD RUN OUT OF WORDS FAIRLY QUICKLY PROBABLY. SO, ST. AUGUSTINE SAYS, GOD GAVE US THE WORDS. AND THAT'S WHAT THE 150 PSALMS ARE. THAT'S ACTUALLY THE REMOTE ORIGIN, MOST ANCIENT ORIGIN OF THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS WHICH IS THEN FULFILLED IN CHRIST, IN CHRISTIANITY AND MOVES INTO THE LIFE OF THE CHURCH IN THE WAYS THAT WE'VE SAID. >> Fr. Pacwa: GREAT. AND WE HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE. SIR, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> Voice: I'M FROM ATLANTA, GEORGIA. MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE, OR WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRAYER AND TALKING TO GOD? >> Guest: WHICH ONE OF US WILL ANSWER? I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER. >> Fr. Pacwa: GO AHEAD. >> Guest: AND IN ONE I SENSE, I WOULD SAY THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. MANY OF THE DEFINITIONS IF YOU WANT TO USE THAT WORD OF PRAYER, OF PRAYER, SPEAKING OF IT AS CONVERSATION WITH GOD OR CONVERSATION WITH CHRIST. SO THAT PRAYER IS SPEAKING WITH GOD. NOW, WE CAN GO ENDLESSLY INTO THIS BECAUSE THERE'S VARIOUS WAYS OF SPEAKING TO GOD OR WITH GOD >> Fr. Pacwa: VARIOUS LEVELS, JUST LIKE OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. WE HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS. AND SOME ARE VERY LIGHT AND HI, HOW ARE YOU. AND YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER. JUST WANT TO BE FRIENDLY. AND OTHERS ARE VERY, VERY DEEP CONVERSATIONS. A PRAYER WITH GOD IS THAT KIND OF CONVERSATION. >> Fr. Pacwa: >> Voice: >> Guest: AND EVEN THE LEVEL OF CONVERSATION WITH GOD OVER THE YEARS CHANGES. A FAITHFUL LIFE OF PRAYER. AND YOU CAN IMAGINE, A GUY AND GIRL MEET AND THEY NEVER HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SAY EVERYTHING THEY WANT TO SAY TO EACH OTHER AS THEY FALL IN LOVE. AND THEY SHARE A LIFE TOGETHER, AND THEIR LIFE GOES ON AND AS TIME GOES ON, WE CAN THINK THAT THEY REMAIN CONTENT SITTING WITH EACH OTHER, MAYBE NOT MUCH TO BE SAID. SO, TO THE QUESTION, AN AWFUL LOT CAN BE SAID A LOT ABOUT THIS. PRAYER ESSENTIALLY IS HEARING GOD SPEAK IN THE VARIOUS WAYS THAT GOD DOES, THROUGH WORD, SCRIPTURE, NATURE, EVENTS IN OUR LIVES, SACRAMENTS, AND THE RESPONSE OF OUR HEART TO THAT. BUT THAT IS AS LIVING AS THE STAGES OF LIFE >> Fr. Pacwa: AND I THINK THE SPONTANEOUS PRAYERS THAT COME FROM THE HEART ARE GREAT. BUT SOMETIMES FORMED PRAYERS ALSO INSTRUCT US. WE'VE RUN FLAT OUT OF TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US, THANK YOU FOR YOUR BOOK. IF YOU WOULD JOIN ME IN BLESSING EVERYBODY. MAY ALMIGHTY GOD BLESS YOU, KEEP YOU, CAUSE HIS FACE TO SHINE UPON YOU, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. FIND OUT MORE BY GOING TO FRTIMOTHYGALLAGHER.ORG AND GET HIS BOOK, A LAYMAN'S GUIDE TO THE LITURGY OF THE HOURS, HOW THE PRAYERS OF THE CHURCH CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE. GO TO ewtnRC.com. GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC]
