Franciscan University Presents: Discovering God's Will

everyone has a vocation a calling from God that only he or she can answer but how do we truly know if we're doing what God wants join us today as we discover how to know the will of God with our special guest father Timothy Gallagher omv who is a renowned spiritual director and a of many many books including discerning the will of God an Ignatian guide to Christian decision making I'm Michael Hernon vice president of advancement at Franciscan University in Steubenville Ohio and you're watching Franciscan University presents stay with us welcome to Franciscan University presents I'm Michael Hernon vice-president of advancement at Franciscan University in Steubenville Ohio and we're here today learning more about discerning God's will I'm joined here in our studios with our regular panelists dr. regis martin professor of systematic theology at francis university and dr. Scott Hahn professor of biblical theology at Franciscan University and we're joined today by our special guests father Timothy Gallagher omv father is a member of the Oh Blades of Mary he has been writing and speaking on the Spiritual Exercises of st. Ignatius of Loyola he earned his doctorate from the gorian in Rome he is taught in seminary assisted in formation work and he's twice served as the provincial of his own community he has dedicated many years to an extensive ministry of retreats spiritual direction and teaching on the spiritual life father is also the author of six different books on st. Ignatius Spiritual Exercises particularly today we're going to be talking about the one discerning the will of God an ignition guide to Christian decision-making father welcome to the program thanks Mike it is great to have you here this really is a crucial topic for all Christians we really need from young to old to really understand how are we to discern the will of God so as we're looking at this topic could you explain to us what does discernment mean in the Christian life well the verb itself means to distinguish between things to separate things apart according to their various natures and so what we're talking about here is most commonly when we use the word is I am faced with a choice the most significant choice which might be vocation and or career to ordinary daily choices should I spend an hour with my son or should I finish up the business project and the question that we have is people who love the Lord is what does God want and so I need to discern and so I need help and tools and criteria for that discernment so so this isn't necessarily a distinction between you know doing good and avoiding evil this is something even much more intimate to where we're going in our lives whenever we make a choice really were always discerning if I have a choice between being honest or dishonest in a business transaction and I choose to be honest because I know that's what the Lord wants I've discerned but we don't tend to think of the word there because the discernment is clear might take some courage but the discernment itself is quite clear so we tend to use it more when a person who loves the Lord is faced with choices in which both options are good options you know priesthood marriage business law etc and how do I know what God's will is in those cases that's that's usually how we use that word so that that's really the defining business a choice between two options neither of which is wicked I mean both are equally good maybe is that is that your position both generally we tend to think of discernment when a person is faced with a choice in which both options the help are all options are good the person is free to choose either option and it's a choice of some significance you know this idea of discerning the will of God you know goes in my experience it goes way back I experienced the the grace of a young adult conversion almost 40 years ago as an evangelical protestant and I remember the conversations that we all add back then about discerning the will of God and I mean on the one hand you're right I mean there's an objective component where you are doing the good and avoiding the evil you're believing in God you are accepting the Word of God and yet at the same time when it comes to marriage or when it comes to this job or when it comes to deciding what major in college you know I got the sense way back that people could almost get wrapped up inside themselves with the process of discerning discerning forever discerning and just not ever reaching a decision and using discernment as an excuse for not deciding well I'd say two things are important when that happens one is that there may be at times the issue may not really be a spiritual issue but it might be a human issue if a person for example has had no modeling in his or her life of commitment the person may simply struggle with commitment as such and call it a spiritual problem but at root it's an issue of human formation and growth and so attention to what can help a person heal just on that level many times sets discernment free the other problem is that when people say I'm forever discerning it may well be that they don't know how to discern right I have very good will but they don't have the tools and that's what examination supplies in a way uniquely his own so your book really doesn't apply to of this video the psychologically immature does it I mean we're talking about adult Christians who pretty much know their mind and have already chosen of God they've opted for a spiritual life they want to be better they want to become Saints it's not that they have some incapacity to make choices they they know what choices to make they've already made a whole busload of good choices but suddenly they find themselves presented with two equally desirable options and they have to mediate the difference is that right I think that's essentially right for st. Ignatius discernment starts it builds on a foundation after all why does it matter to do God's will why is that important to me most simply because I know I'm loved and I want to respond to a love so yes there's always a foundation on which is this is going to be built but even though a person may have a good solid catechetical foundation in our faith and years of the spiritual life when as you say a person is suddenly faced with a significant choice the person still needs tools you held now just as we turn to for example Francis of Assisi for the question questions of poverty or living evangelical simplicity of life or teresa of avila or john of the cross when it's higher states of prayer and so on the church looks to Ignatius of Loyola for these kinds of tools Emerson is facing that choice that is greatness so if you if we look at it from the standpoint of kind of as Scott said earlier you know that there's this sense that some people had that discernment equals delay that they're they're perpetually putting off sometimes making a decision in life but there's also sometimes I mean is God interested in every aspect of our life how much in all the areas do we need to discern I think the best answer to that is to look to Jesus in the Gospels who tells us that he always does what the father wills when it says where he goes how he interacts with people what he does everything is guided by the will of his father which is a lovely image of a way to live so the answer to that is yes Jesus when we say Jesus Jesus is Lord in our lives we mean it and his Lord not just of even the significant choices but of every choice I like what you're doing in grounding discernment in objectivity you know that you begin with the objective fact that okay there is a God and we are creatures who ought to obey and do the good and avoid the evil but even more God has revealed himself through Christ so that more than creatures we are called to be children of God and to respond to a vocation that we discern through the Word of God through the Holy Spirit to accept the gift of sonship in Christ and thus to respond through prayer and obedience at the same time I know as a father of six there's a certain sense that I have in which you know as I see my kids growing and they come to me and they want to know what I want one of the things I've tried to communicate over the years by instilling wisdom and giving them opportunities is sort of like you know I have not predetermined each and every single component of your life and not just because I'm not God but because as a father I take delight in seeing my kids exercise their freedom and really you know deciding on the basis of what they're discovering inside their arts when it comes to love or when it comes to excitement or what it comes to you know a sense of adventure that they really feel ready for and so when I look back on those evangelical days where we were trying to discern should I park on this side of the street or that's I'd you know and just cause a traffic jam you know I also recognize that objectivity I know objectively we have that freedom as children of God to do what we you know and not just what we do what we want to do by instinct but what we want to do through the holy spirit of divine sonship within us I think what you touch on there Scott is why God even calls us to a process of discernment and because this does come off oftentimes when I when I offer teachings on this why is it so hard you know you know if I want to do God's will can t simply make it clear to me but I think very much as you're saying for with your own children as a father with your own children God calls us to that process of discernment precisely because we grow so much when we do it yeah we have to I love watching this in people's lives when you see them go through a process of discernment and you see them grow up and mature in their faith as they have to learn to pray more deeply to live in the Lord day by day more deeply they need ongoing conversion sacrament of confession may take on new life in their own spiritual reading and so forth by the time people come to clarity and know what God wants and are free to move forward they've grown enormously children grow up into adults oftentimes through the process of discernment so absolutely God engages our freedom very much in the process and finally if the Lord has a will for us it's not to enchain us and it's right it's to set us free oh yeah and you I love this too when you see people find God's will and they're set free yeah yeah there's nothing quite like the joy of living or in a good day is it is it possible father to arrive at full and perfect clarity you know an absolute of even apodictic certainty about the choice you think God is asking you to make in practical terms can we arrive at clarity so that a person now knows this is what God wants to help with the clarity beyond doubting the answer is yes okay probably I'll leave this to you as the systematics professor but probably read speak of a moral certitude you know a case like that which is all that we really need yeah I now have the clarity that I need to know that God wants this choice bill it's not a Cartesian certifying the dynamism illogical yes but it's the fruit of prayer and I think that's the key you know as I as I think back again to what it was like before I became a Catholic a quarter of a century ago I realized that the one component that was entirely lacking was what we call spiritual direction those two words were never conjoined we never heard anything about spiritual direction when I first heard about it I thought what is that you know and I reacted because it seemed as though the subjective choices that we were to make lacked any objective basis and so people would come up and say I think I'm supposed to marry you well you know wait a minute God is capable of communicating at to both people you know I reacted I remember I've been doing penance ever since because I was engaged less than two months and we were in a Bible study talking about the will of God and somebody asked me well how do you discern that it was God's will to marry Kimberly and I'm like I just decided you know I and this is what I said I said out there there are millions of women and maybe 50 of them that I could have married but I chose her and my wife to be looked at me 50 and the Bible study leader said oh you're going to be paying for this real long he people didn't realize how wildly promiscuous father I couple of difficulties if I might just sort of try them out on you on the one hand if you have two choices and they're both equally good that makes it difficult doesn't it because you can be happy with either choice A or B and God is not disapproving of either he might prefer B to a you don't yet know that but if you end up doing a your not going to be wretched forever in hell right well let's look for example at the life of someone like the Kure of ours who was his life was incredibly fruitful obviously as a diocese and priest and a pastor in a parish who throughout all of the years of his priesthood longed for the monastic life so much so that three times he even left his parish with the intention of joining the monastery and each time returned now did it matter you know they're good both obviously good but did it matter in the Father's will for the world and the church that this man choose what God really wanted him to do obviously it mattered both for him and through his choice for many other people so it's when we know that both choices are good we don't yet have an answer we have a need for discernment you know and it matters enormous ly for the person's happiness and for God's work of redemption in the world that become to see which choice God really wants yeah yeah right thank you up the other difficulty of if I might trot it out as well up oftentimes you can't know what is best until you do it right I mean students will ask me uh I'd like to be honest up and wise is there a book I can read or I'd like to be chaste and just can you send me to a tape some CD that will explain everything and the answer is you can't there's no book you have to practice chastity or justice or generosity or honesty you learn by doing it's a process sanctification is a process so if I'm beset by two choices do I get married or do I become a car fusion of how do I know unless a I get married or B I become the carthesian and then life being dramatic it sort of unfolds in the doing of it one or the other am i stealing a base here or well I wonder if st. Ignatius has some insight into this first thing I would say is that some of that is a matter of Christian formation so the book or the tape doesn't make the decision for the person doesn't it the person there but it can enlighten the person or the teaching of the church's tradition on how more easily to get there the second thing I would say is I think st. Ignatius is a little more optimistic than that and the whole thrust of his little spiritual classic the Spiritual Exercises is that it is possible for us to know between marriage and being a carthesian and before I actually make the choice it is possible to come to clarity on which choice God does want for me father thank you I want to hold this discussion too because I think we need to go deep into at our next segment how we will discern God's will from a spiritual master st. Ignatius of Loyola you're watching Franciscan University presents you stay with us in my own experience spiritual direction has been a great benefit to me and that it gives me an opportunity to talk about some of the things that I've been going through in my own spiritual life perhaps in some of the sermons that I've been trying to make and speak about it with someone that has more experience than I do in my own case it's always been a priest that I've had as my spiritual director so someone that has been much holier than myself able to perhaps guide me in ways of spiritual reading or ways to take my prayer so that God's will might become clearer in my life my name is Michael Villanueva I'm majoring in philosophy and theology last semester I had sacraments with dr. hunt and I'll tell you right now it was the best class of my entire life every class I'm just knocked out of my chair it hits me like a ton of bricks the beauty of the truth that he's speaking to us something so simple god it's so beautiful and so profound and so powerful Franciscan University is academically excellent and passionately today we're discussing how do you discern the will of God with spiritual director and author father Timothy Gallagher oh and the father now that we've kind of broken open the subject of discernment if you could let us know what what are the wisdom from st. Ignatius of La we know from the Spiritual Exercises we know he's a master in the spiritual life what does Saint Ignatius have to say about discernment of God's will it takes the person who loves God is facing a significant choice vocational career and so on wants to do God's will doesn't yet know how to find it and gives that person the tools the person needs to do first to prepare for that choice because that's critical in discernment many times discernment gets blocked because the preparatory steps are not in place so he explains those guides the person through those and then once the person is ready the person's heart is disposed what he does with guidance of a as always it's always presumed that there's a spiritual guide in this he shows the person the ways in which God may ordinarily answer that question so that if God chooses to speak through one of these these pathways with the help of the guide the person will recognize it and know the answer ok real quickly give me an example of what you mean by preparatory what what kinds of things are contributing to preparation all right what can get in the way then of being able to hear the still small voice of God's will when he's speaking the most obvious thing to be removed is sinfulness so Ignatius invites the person in a first section of his process to with great love and knowing the love of the Redeemer he puts the person at the foot of the cross just marveling at the love that has brought the Savior here we bring our brokenness our sinfulness our need for healing to him and as spiritually we grow freer of sinfulness then we become more and more able to hear so that's the first thing okay a second thing that he does and this is where he actually spends most of his time is to invite the person to get immersed in Jesus in the Gospels so day after day after day he has the person just live with the Lord actually go through the entire life of the Lord in the Gospels from the the private life is his birth the infancy and on through to the resurrection and as the person is doing this with a heart I'll set freer from the obstacle and a heart that is increasingly getting ready to say whatever you want Lord which is the key disposition that we need the person is seeing the choices Jesus makes hearing the way Jesus speaks seeing the people with whom he lives seeing the actions that he does and the things that he chooses not to to follow and as the person is doing this Ignatius presumption and the experience of 500 years now confirms that the Holy Spirit is alive in this various things in the life of Jesus touched this person and a pattern begins to emerge and out of that with wise guidance the person can be and begin to hear the Lord's desire in the choice of the person is facing well aren't these up the the three ways of the spiritual life which have been traditionally understood from the beginning I mean there's the purgative way you have to renounce sin you have to acknowledge your brokenness and then you're somehow immersed in this illuminative way flooded with light you know the insights of the Gospels and you embark upon this great pilgrimage of grace and finally it culminates in the unitive way a kind of mystic transformation into the very life love of paradise sure Ignatius uses that very language in the exercise I suspect most of us are stuck somewhere in that first phase right the purgative I think what is helpful is that Ignatius recognizes that we need to go through these stages discernment doesn't happen outside of a context yeah as I said earlier many times the reason why we're blocked and we feel unable to move is that the context is not in place and Ignatius shows us how to get that context in place which then sets the process for you to move forward Yale and it seems to me that what we're talking about is listening to God we're talking about hearing God and it just seems that as Ignatius calls for us to steep ourselves in the Gospels I mean you're hearing his voice in your ears you're praying so that it truly becomes incarnate that Christ is real and present then that desire to know his will becomes much more present because I think you know and when the Gospels say my my sheep know my voice do we know the voice of God and with that preparation that foundation of the Gospels seems to really set that stage for for understanding and discerning God's will but that's only just preparation really for the discernment mm-hmm I would say that we do hear God's will anyone who loves the Lord and is following the Lord knows in many ways as he or she goes through life that the Lord's will is this or that but we can grow in that and Ignatius can lead that to a new level you know one of the models in the Gospels and in the tradition for the three stages of the interior life the purgative the illuminative in the unitive is Simon Peter you know and I like the way that you objectify this too not just by taking an example like Simon Peter but just seeing all the different ways Jesus relates to the gathering demoniac after healing him he sends him back you know he says to the others leave your nuts and follow me he says to the rich young ruler sell everything you have and the guy goes away sad so you see the variety in the Gospels that's beautiful but what I like is Simon Peter because he leaves his nuts and follows and yet it keeps stumbling and bumbling along you know and kind of graduating from elementary school to junior high but continuing to struggle all the way until finally he is martyred and and to me you know that is something that is really useful and and practical it's so helpful for people I think taking what you just said right to our own issue of discerning God's will to know that we don't have to be masters we don't have to get it all right we can lean on a tradition we can lean on the wisdom of someone like Anne Ignatius and we can lean on the wisdom of a trained and wise spiritual director as we do this so that we won't always hear everything immediately right and so on but we're in the process it has the objective parameters that you've described it's solidly based in the church's wisdom and we'll get there yeah okay well that I think that that is what makes a Peter so endearing a figure he doesn't get it he's always on the verge of some spectacular lapse it's not as if Jesus says look you're really a jerk and as soon as you you clean up your act and make yourself perfect then we'll sit down and chat because I've got some plans for you but until you achieve that that sheen of perfection get out of here i anathematized you I mean that's not how it works I mean he struggles he stumbles he falls he gets up he's repentant and and one day he awakens up and has a beatific vision he's in heaven well I mean I'd say even more marvelously the very stumbling becomes something that God uses to get us where he wanted hell yeah that's exemplified beginning with Ignatius himself where those first thirty years where he was kind of an Augustine young I'm right yeah became the background out of which he became the specific sainthood he did you know the example of Simon Peter reminds me of episode in my own life to where I've had what I like the characterizes upward falls you know on the one hand Peter says you are the Christ and he hears Jesus say and you are the rock and then he turns around and says you're the stumbling stone you know get thee behind me Satan and likewise you know Simon do you love me more than these I mean it's there there are a lot of moments where there are Stern encounters not harsh but not easy either and III think what you have to recognize is that in the process of discerning and deciding is also growth and virtue especially humility and and that alone makes sense on all of the falls because suddenly the humiliations are part of a plan apart from which you just can't simply scale the ladder and say well I did it and I didn't need to be humiliated you know yeah and so you know again there are bigger issues in terms of marriage and priesthood but I think there are the nuts and bolts of daily discernment and decision making has do so much more with with the virtues and not just avoiding evil and doing good but accepting humiliations and trying to figure out what to do with the help of a spiritual director and father in your book you really give some great stories and share a lot of personal examples of people going through discernment here today whether it be careers whether it be vocation to the priesthood or religious life whether it be taking a job somewhere out of town or what have you you know if you could just in a simple way there's three modes that that st. Ignatius lays out but you spend quite a bit of time on the preparation which we've talked about spiritual director scripture journaling even writing things down when you look at the preparation and the three modes how can we describe that for someone at home who's listening to this today who's wondering do I take this job do as a retiree am i our soon-to-be how do we not necessary the practical parts but what does Saint Ignatius have in so far as the wisdom of those months what you've touched on there is really the question most people have when they ask for help with discernment and that is it's not even so much about the preparation although as we've said that's indispensably important but the question is how will I know that I've heard God's voice and how will I know that God has answered my question and the marvelous thing that st. Ignatius did is to review his own experience and out of it identify three different patterns of the way God may answer that question I'll summarize them these are two essential more needs to be said but just as a basic paradigm sometimes God can give a clarity beyond doubting it's just so clear that we know sometimes it comes through an attraction of the heart a consistent pattern of Attraction over time during what Ignatius call spiritual consolation when our hearts feel warmed and close to God and then the third pattern would be a preponderance of reasons when a person calmly peacefully prayerfully before the Lord looks at the advantages and disadvantages for the one option and the other from the perspective of God's glory which of these options will serve to make God more known and loved in the world and for eternity so a clarity beyond doubting an attraction of the heart or preponderance of reasons essentially that's those are the three modes okay and that's and that that gives us the end result that's what often times people give me the bottom line and Ignatius gives us these are the three modes that God can speak to us and and there's all this preparation that goes into this so well in in your work what do you think is is one that people are challenged with which one of those three modes it makes it more more interesting in your direction and retreats that usually I think that the greatest challenge is when people have not yet heard through one of those three modes but that's really as individual as the way God works with each individual heart and both all three modes equally lead to the kind of clarity of which we spoke about before which is what people need so it almost it's in within God's free working within each person which of those is going to be the clarity beyond doubting when that comes is a lovely experience because it's clear some sometimes it's given in a moment of prayer sometimes it gradually emerges over time in a person's heart but a person gets to the point where he or she now says I know beyond doubting that this is what God wants and it's a lovely telling when that happens yeah kind of blinding of affirmation or or certitude what what I think gives a lot of people pause is that third of controlling of criterion which of the choices I'm free to make is most likely to advance God's kingdom what would enhance the glory of God make him magnified beyond any other choice even good choices I mean like Saint John Vianney I mean ending up a monk in a monastery would would probably save his soul but it might not save a great many French souls whom God wanted him to minister to yeah those are those are amazing points because I think as we get down to this I think we really need to go into some practical parts of what Ignatian is really looking for st. Ignatius is looking for let's continue this discussion discovering God's will with some very practical applications to help really discerning God's will you're watching Franciscan University presents stay with the importance of that sacramental prayer life of staying close to our Lord is one of those ways in which we can learn to listen for his peace learn to listen for when he's calling us to say yes to him and something that we might not necessarily want to do at that point in time during the day or as we're thinking for that vocation in our lives but if we're scared about something or anything of that nature you know we have to learn that God has a plan and a desire for all of us to follow and do his will and we'll find our joy in aligning our will with his and listening to him and saying yes to him explore the treasures of your Catholic heritage on a Franciscan University pilgrimage led by inspiring spiritual directors you'll walk in the footsteps of saints and martyrs in the Holy Land Poland France and Italy and you'll deepen your love for Jesus Christ through daily Mass confession prayer and the joy of christian fellowship let Franciscan University lead you on a pilgrimage of faith find out more at Franciscan edu slash pilgrimages I'm glad you joined us here at Franciscan University presents this entire program is actually taped in the communication art studio at Franciscan University of Steubenville our panelists Regis and Scott are members of our theology department all the cameras and all the equipment is run by our students here this entire program really springs forth from the the heart of Franciscan University today we're continuing to discuss discovering God's will with author and spiritual director father Timothy Gallagher omv father now that we've kind of got a handle on on what Ignatius talks about with regards to determine what what can we know as a sign or as a symptom if you will of us discerning properly the will of God what springs immediately to mind when you say that is Dante's classic line yeah in his will is our peace is our peace you know and that's the deepest sign of that what the person will experience is a sense of rightness the hand fits in the glove I'm home you know there'll be a deep sense of peace a sense of Ignatius would say spiritual consolation and that may at times go together with a certain sense of struggle mmm let's say take the agony in the garden in the Lord sometimes it's just going to be sheer delight yeah and sometimes there may be some struggle but what will be common in all of that is a deep sense of rightness a deep sense that I am in the Lord's will and to use Dante's word just the peace a peace that passes all under the which is why we can speak of the joy of the Cross I mean it's not he's not a happy camper it's not an all-day sucker he's wretched he's dying a slow painful protracted torture but he's rooted in the will of the Father and this confers a joy a peace versus strength I think we need to say both things that sometimes when we discover God's will we will just our hearts will be filled on every level human included with a great delight the young man and the young woman now know the God mounts them to marry or if I remember my own call to priesthood you know there was everything I wanted and then sometimes too it can be more demanding but the common denominator is the freedom that I know that I am walking in the Lord right yeah well if if priesthood was everything that you wanted and I presume the vehicle was the Oblates of the Blessed Mother and yet you spend your life dispensing the Spiritual Exercises why didn't you become a Jesuit what what prevented that I wasn't desolating know the reason for that is that the founder of the operates of the Virgin Mary the venerable Brunel and Terry Italian priest 2030 fell so deeply in love with the Ignatian Spiritual Exercises that he was convinced that there is no more practically usable instrument in the church to awaken dispositions of desire for holiness in people and at the same time he said the need for this is far greater than anyone can ever meet even the Jesuits in the world yeah so the church needs a group of men who are trained in this and don't do other things to make this available so that's why an operate of the Virgin Mary is speaking about the health issues so you you know say the anisha's talks a lot about consolation and desolation consolation having that kind of closeness and joy of God's presence but desolation sometimes is not necessarily the same I think sometimes people wonder you know if I'm feeling desolate am I really doing what God God's will is and oftentimes there are many challenges I believe it's in suruc because as if you go up to serve the Lord prepare yourself for trials sometimes when we do step out and we do follow God's path and following his will there will be trials and we should probably should expect them but what would you say to somebody who is they feel like they've chosen God's path but now they're experiencing desolation certainly they're going to be trials in every authentic vocation or career the Lord has called us to follow but the specific question now about spiritual desolation which means a heaviness of heart and spiritual things as I live my spiritual life there's no shame in experiencing that we all experience that what we're actually touching on there is a second kind discernment about which st. ignatius speaks which is discernment of spirits by which he means spiritual consolation the times that we have joy in the Lord prayer is alive and spiritual desolation the time when we don't feel God's closeness when there's discouragement in our hearts and some sadness and struggle he has 14 rules or guidelines on how to understand spiritual desolation and with a wealth of tools on how to resist it and reject it so that we don't get caught in the enemy's trap of disharmony I think is really the main obstacle most of us experience along the way my spiritual journey that's a separate teaching on discernment of spirits which I also have a book on that and have done a series and the rest I love teaching that because you see before your eyes you see captive set free which is biblically how I understand his teaching is that's what Jesus came to do people who love the Lord live with great goodness but with a certain grayness and sadness in their hearts and may almost believe that this is what the Lord is asking of me in this life ya know Jesus like all this high activity he came to so that's a separate teaching which which is one of the greatest gifts that Ignatius gives to the church another great book you wrote is well on that that's wonderful you know I like the way you describe that because it's its setting free the captives but it's not just from slavery it's it's for sonship you know so you describe that sense of being at home coming home I remember that as a teenager in finding Christ I remember that in the mid-80s in becoming a Catholic and entering the church oh there was desolation all kinds of challenges you know professional suicide in a way but you know much more was that sense I'm home I'm home and then I remember a practical decision I had to make about coming to Franciscan University of stewin ville and leaving a job and moving the family and you know Kimberly was still in the process of entering the church at that point great difficulties and yet when we got here what a sense of being at home you know freed from certain things but called other things that really represent sort of the will of God as father for me as son and that is at home and yet at the same time you know until we in heaven home is never just going to be you know warm fuzzy feelings and nothing but it's going to be crosses it's going to be difficulties and this gets right back to the question that that you raised I may have discerned well God's will and found it and I'm walking in it so you come here or I become a priest or we all follow what we know the Lord is asking us to do but now another kind of experience comes in because the spiritual life isn't done the moment I discern it now I walk that path now I live it and as I do I can expect times of spiritual consolation the joy in the Lord and also expect times of spiritual desolation when my heart is heavier spiritual things cost more to know how to negotiate those you have to know how Ignatius says be aware of what's going on be in touch with it spiritually and that's a big part of reviewing spiritual experience and learning to do that be aware of it understand it be able to name this is the spiritual consolation that is of what he said it calls the good Spirit the Holy Spirit and this is spiritual desolation ten o'clock alone in my room after a hard day don't want to pray easy to flop in front of the TV or the internet you know what I'm experiencing right now is spiritual desolation and then he's to take action in this case to reject it and I think nowhere else in the Church of spiritual tradition do we get such a clearly usable set of tools on how to reject that spiritual desolation as those given by Ignatius it's critically important it makes the daily see how much it means Barry my sense is that part of the geniuses of Ignatius is that he doesn't he's not terribly interested in in the soul taking his or her own emotional temperature all the time how am i doing asking myself am I getting warm fuzzies or is it all cold desolation instead you need to forget yourself and focus on the mission the job and and here is a job that only you can perform God has created you for something really special only you can fill this niche and never mind if you're not feeling jolly and exultant all the time I mean think of the Gethsemane experience you need to somehow route yourself in God's will and the consolation will come and and it will sometimes be interrupted by desolation but the the primary overarching focus is God's will God's glory enhance that and as Bernanos says five minutes after you're in paradise everything is alright yeah what Ignatius would say in absolutely along these lines is that as we're doing that consolation desolation I'm holding to God's will and we all know he needs me to do it wants me to do that it can become easier for me to do that as I increasingly understand the spiritual experience that's going on our culture basically gives us two choices with regard to experience of the heart which it sees only on the human emotional level and Ignatius is looking on the spiritual level either we blindly follow them which is disastrous or we try to ignore them crush them set them aside which causes problems down the line in another way home Ignatius is in the middle and says discern them yeah get to understand what's of God and what is not of God in this reject what is not of God follow it is of God and then we do exactly that with all the greater courage and strength and joy how thing yeah yeah he's really conducting a kind of symphony the way that he coordinates so many aspects of the emotional the psychological and the spiritual it correct me if I'm wrong but I get a sense from what you have said that the Spiritual Exercises are not all the time therefore the occasions when you have really important decisions to make and a lot of discernment needs to go into it and then when it comes to discerning the desolation and constellation it's sort of like most of the year is not Advent and Christmas and Lent and Easter most of its ordinary time and so when you're going through those moments of real important decision-making the exercises and really careful discernment on the other hand ordinary time you know where we're going through the days the week's the months and the years in between those changes it really is that the virtues and the habits that come through discerning consolation desolation through spiritual direction that sort of thing yes I think that very much it that the exercises themselves contemplate a specific need of a choice of some significance that a person needs to make however what happens is that as the person goes through that experience the person learns an enormous amount about the spiritual life and the preparation discernment itself consolations desolation and the person is experiencing this and getting daily guidance in this from someone competent to us so that when the person then returns to daily life the person returns with a whole new set of understanding and tools and the tradition has shown that those tools are so useful in daily life that they are widely you have taught and presented there's so much riding on this to make them available to people even outside the original context of the exercises and experience just shows I've been teaching this now traveling and teaching this for almost 30 years now and I cannot tell you what it means to stand in front of a group of a hundred or a few hundred people explain something like this about consolation and desolation and see a light go on people's own and it's precisely the people who most love the Lord who ments are sincerely seeking to follow him who delight and now having a whole set of tools that they didn't have before which enable them to live that day lie to the Lord and father one of the things that I think helps in all these consolation and desolation is a spiritual director it comes up in discernment it comes up in just our ordinary lives this is something that I have found luckily when I was young I had a pre say you need to have a spiritual director on a regular basis and you know through those very challenging moments as well as those moments of great joy and consolation why is a spiritual director so important why does st. Ignatius encourage that for Christians because we're dealing in discernment with things about which most of us are not really expert and even apart from that I'll just say it myself I've been teaching and writing on this for a long time now and I need a spiritual director I sometimes have to smile a little ironically almost when my director will say well it sounds like you're experiencing spiritual desolation let's help and I'll say oh you mean what I've been teaching all those people about someone to help me see in my own experience but I can't see or myself is yeah so yes it's it's been it's the age-old wisdom of the church that it is it well go right to the beginning of the Bible it is not good for man to be alone and that is true on every level of our being including the spiritual life I've been struck to see how on several occasions now Benedict the sixteenth has has has highlighted this need for spiritual guidance on it I'll remember even one phrase in order to advance in the spiritual life he says which is what we all want we all have need of a guide to striking of some form of dialogue you cannot do it just with our own reflections and he goes on to explain that in the context of of speaking about an individual's experience of of a spiritual guide so life gets so much easier spiritually when we have a guide finally I'll just say this that if we ever feel stuck in the spiritual life and I think sometimes you feel blocked we can't see time is passing and I can't see my way forward as a basic principle in the spiritual life God never called us to be stuck in the spiritual life he always calls us to journey on what will make the difference many many times is being able to speak with the spiritual guide and then things can start to move that's a great point you won't want to miss the next segment as we really bring this entire conversation to a high point and the close for us on discerning that God's will for our lives you're watching Franciscan University presents stable the spiritual director is like that third person in the picture that between you've got God the direct D and then the director and hopefully the director can exercise a contemplative presence and be a channel for the Lord to be able to share with the direct D what he might want the directing to know that's at the best that's certainly not infallible they don't make the decisions for the direct D but hopefully if they're very prayerful and yes they have their own stuff but they can put it aside enough to be a channel for God to help the person understand where to find God in their life my name is Kelli Butler and I'm a communication arts major I took independent digital filmmaking definitely intense many all-nighters in the editing lab getting things done Pope John Paul the second has a quote do not be afraid to go out into the streets and into public places to preach Christ like the first apostles that's what we're called to as Catholics and as Christian you have that responsibility that every work you create should reflect Christ Franciscan University is academically excellent and passionately Catholic we've come to our final segment on Franciscan University presents today we've been discussing discovering the will of God with author and spiritual director father Timothy Gallagher omv now it's time for us to kind of unpack and summarize our high points from today's discussion and we'll start with you Regis well father I'm awed by your insight and also by your presence thank you so much for coming I don't know you at all but the impression I have is that you not only set an example but you seem to be an inflection of the ideas that you've come to propose and the advice that that you give and I am grateful to you for that and it's a wonderful book the other night I had a choice to equally virtuous things I could either watch a football game or I could read your book the fact that I don't know the outcome of the game should be a tip-off read the book and I'm enriched by the experience what one thing strikes me and and it's a presupposition of the book that you're not talking to frivolous people you're talking to thoughtful Christians who want to become Saints who would like to be better and are determined on the love of God and that seems to be the defining theme and you see it certainly in the movement that Ignatius founded the Society of Jesus the Companions of Jesus they're anchored to Christ and they have fallen in love with Christ and I think that's probably what enables people not to be misled by the consolation of and not to be unduly depressed by the desolation but to keep their eyes on the prize God in the person of Christ and and he's he's the one towards whom we move and it's so helpful to have this apparatus in place which which strikes me is wonderfully schematic to identify the stages along the way in order to more perfectly discern God's will and I think you're a master at that and I thank you for coming thank you Scott this conversation reminds me of the series of conversations I had years ago with father John then father Jack to Opus Dei priests who I encountered while I was Protestant because objectively I discerned that the Catholic Church was right and so I was on the wrong flight as it were I wanted to eject I wanted to bail out they helped me land the plane so there was a layover there was a transition it was very helpful for me because I discovered this oasis that existed in the desert that wasn't on my map spiritual Direction weekly spiritual direction encouragement council growth and in prayer and that sort of thing I remember becoming a cooperator in Opus Dei before I ever became a Catholic because I knew I needed spiritual direction like I needed meals you know and sleep in that sort of thing and I recognized to that for so many non Catholics this tradition of spiritual direction is unknown it wasn't just unknown to me it was unknown to practically everybody I knew and then I entered the church and now after more than two decades of continuing on I've discovered that there are many Catholics who don't know about this tradition as well and how life-giving it is and so that just intensifies my gratitude for not only men like you who are doing this for guys like me but for books like yours and for the talks like yours and for your presence and your conversation here with us today it really is a channel of grace to many people and I thank you thank you Scott thank you reaches as you say the presupposition here really is a person who loves the Lord and wants to say yes to God with every fiber of their our imperfect fragile redeemed humanity but genuinely really wants to love the Lord and as you say Scott it doesn't yet have all the tools that the person needs may not even know that those tools exist right and so when faced with this issue of discernment it seems inviting attractive but mysterious and unmanageable and don't really know what to do with it and so I feel somewhat on comfortably stuck and bogged in place and then they have someone come along like this 16th century Spaniard and right this slim little volume of Spiritual Exercises things we can do tools ways we can pray ways of understanding things ways of speaking about it in spiritual direction and to discover with a sense of marble that the mystery is now unpacked the unmanageable road opens up now there's a way and I can walk it then you have that experience that I've described as captives being set free which is just marvelous I mean you've described it just now in the way that you've spoken it and it's there for Catholics Protestants it's there for anyone who loves the Lord Jesus and that teaching then allows people to move forward and find as we said earlier the peace in his will is is your peace which is a beautiful thing and a marvelous gift of our spiritual tradition father Tim thank you for being with us thanks for sharing on our program you also had a chance to speak with our students so we really appreciate all that you've done but in your book discerning the will of God you've really made it very practical and accessible I think for many people whether religious or lay and these are wisdom that the church really needs and so I thank you for that you know when I think about this topic it really would have been much more helpful had I known the Ignatian exercises and had your book before many life decisions but for those of you who are wanting to go deeper into our subject today just for asking we have a free handout for you that are excerpts from father's book if you go to faith and reason com you can download it or you can contact us and we can get it to you it's a really really very helpful guide for you there are many choices that we all have to make and I think the the preparation for that is as father shared that we have to want the will of God to know that we were created by a God who loves us and who has a purpose for our lives st. Catherine of Siena says that if we are who we were meant to B we would set the world on fire the world needs us to be living in the will of God and we need to be able to know it's so well that we're living it but also teaching and leading others our world is in desperate need to that too much in our culture is noise and st. ignatius and and father Timothy here is talking about silence about taking time to be silent before the Lord to listen to him and it makes it very very easy for us to really unpack and listen to the Lord you had a great quote in your book that is one of my favorite blessed John John Newman God has created me to do some definitive service he has committed some work to me which he has not committed to another I have my mission somehow I am necessary for his purposes as necessary as an archangel is for his so this is a great book we encourage you to take a look at this book pass it on and share it with others at Franciscan University presents comes from the heart of Franciscan University and I want to invite you to be a part of our mission Franciscan University is forming the students who are transforming the world I invite you to be a part of it by being a student here on campus or through our distance learning come and be part of our conferences or pilgrimages or visit us at faith and reason com for videos and great resources until next time in the Lord bless you and keep you thank you for watching Franciscan University presents to download the free handout on today's topic go to faith and reason com email your request for the handout - presents at Franciscan ddu at faith and reason comm you can also purchase past episodes of Franciscan University present or request today's free hand out and purchase past programs by calling 8 eight eight three three three zero three eight one that's eight eight eight three three three zero three eight one or call seven four zero two eight three six three five seven you

Channel: Franciscan University of Steubenville

Views: 92,213

Rating: 4.8464732 out of 5

Keywords: Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, Catholic, college, Michael Hernon, Dr. Regis Martin, Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Timothy Gallagher OMV

Id: xXlWjnznwys

Length: 58min 30sec (3510 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 06 2013