Evening Conversation with Senator Tim Scott and Congressman Trey Gowdy

good evening my name is Pete Peterson and I am the Dean of Pepperdine School of Public Policy and it's a honor and a pleasure to be back here tonight talking about friendship though I I realized as I was preparing my remarks both this town and the place where I'm from are not known as being particularly friendly places I know you all know that great Truman quote that if you want a friend in this town you should get a dog but where I come from in Los Angeles in Hollywood we also are not known for our friendliness the late Carrie Fisher once said you can't find any true closeness in Hollywood because everyone does fake closeness so well so a question could be asked why would a gradual policy school care about something like friendship and that's really because as I know I've mentioned on this podium many times the gradual policy school was founded by a rather unique social science researcher and policymaker the late James Q Wilson it was Wilson who founded our school designed our unique curriculum that balances the quantitative coursework that you'll find in a lot of graduate policy schools but with things that you just can't measure history philosophy and friendship in fact dr. Wilson founded the school within a couple years of writing what many consider to be his great opus work the moral sense I bring my jacket copy here that all Pepperdine graduates have and I just wanted to read a short passage here from the very first page of the preface which indicates in many ways that the Wilson is seen as a very hardened social science researcher he understood later in life that it was the things in between the numbers relationships and friendships that really could dictate whether a policy succeeded or failed he wrote this to begin the book virtue has acquired a bad name yet the daily discourse of ordinary people is filled with oblique references to morality we talk constantly about being or not being decent nice or dependable about having or not having good character about friendship loyalty and moderation or fickleness in sincerity and addiction when we overhear these conversations or read about these topics and magazines and novels we sometimes say the people are preoccupied with personal relationships the problems of mother and child or wife and husband of lovers friends and co-workers this preoccupation is not simply about relationships however much of it is about what those relationships ought to be this preoccupation like the adjectives with which we express it loyal kind or nice disloyal selfish or rude is with the language of morality even though we often disguise it in the language of personality it is the language of virtue and vice it is the language that this book is about that's why we care about friendship because we know that policy is not just what drops out the bottom of an Excel spreadsheet that says policy a is going to be better than policy B because we're not talking about policy we're talking about public policy and the difference between policy and public policy is when somebody takes a good quantitative idea and matches it with good relationships and an understanding of what the public will stand so that's why we're so honored again to be a co-host of this evening tonight a night that celebrates friendship and so without any further ado let me welcome up my friend Cherie harder well thank you Pete for that kind introduction and welcome to all of you to tonight's evening conversation on faithful friendship amidst difference as Pete noted this is part of our ongoing series that Trinity forum has partnered with the Pepperdine School of Public Policy to host as part of the series we've tackled topics as diverse as reforming public theology the role of friendship and the political imagination the endangered future of liberal democracy the strange persistence of guilt in a post religious world and other light topics we're grateful for pepra dime's partnership and support in convening discussions like these and Pete we are grateful for your friendship as well in addition to recognizing our co-hosts and along with Brian Schwartz from Pepperdine who's here as well as Pete Peterson I'd like to recognize just a few special guests we're delighted that the founder of the Trinity for mozzie is has joined us this evening so glad you're with us oz as well as trustee Shirley Hoekstra we're also delighted that every one of you is here we know this was convened fairly short notice that the traffic was terrible the weather is often bad and so if you had friends who wanted to be here tonight but couldn't make it you're not we are live streaming this event we were also recording it via video we'll have the video up on our website and we're live streaming even as we speak on both our Facebook channels and our YouTube channels it's a pleasure to see so many new faces tonight I know there are several people here who are here for the very first time and for those of you who are not familiar with eternity forum we worked to create a space for the discussion of life's greatest questions in the context of faith and we do this both by providing readings and publications which draw upon classic works of literature and letters that explore enduring questions and connect the timeless wisdom of the humanities with timely issues of the day as well as sponsoring programs such as this one tonight to connect leading thinkers with thinking leaders and engaging those big questions of life and ultimately coming to better know the author of the answers as we've noted in virtually every evening conversation before it's been said the big questions of life distill down to basically three what is a good person what is the good life and what is the just society and tonight what we'll be discussing is foundational and formational to all three such questions in classical text friendship was often viewed as the highest state of happiness and human fulfillment the good life the Bible has much to say about the power of friendship in forming good character and the good person but friendship is essential not only to good character in the good life but also to preserving a free and just society as a whole during the course of this year those of you who have been to our other evening conversations have heard from a number of provocative speakers who have asserted that our growing estrangement from each other does not merely depress demoralize and deplete us on an individual level but actually poses an urgent challenge to the state of our republic from senator Ben Sasse who he hosted just a few weeks ago who claims that we are in the midst of a crisis of loneliness two political scientists Francis Fukuyama who described the isolating impact of the increasing politicization of our sense of identity to the discussion between David Brooks and Patrick Dineen which we hosted with Pepperdine just a few months ago which described the ways in which the erosion of relational bonds threatens the very fabric of our Republic the state of friendship in America often illuminates the state of our union itself and by such light and illumination we may have reason to be concerned so how do we both individually and corporately rebuild those relational bonds that have undergirded our country how do we learn to live with work alongside look out for even love those with whom we just agree or more simply and personally in a lonely and angry world how do we learn to better love our neighbor or be a better friend it's a vitally important question as well as a challenging one and we are delighted and honored to hear tonight from a couple of friends who are creatively and courageously seeking to live out the answer even amidst the weaponized difference bruising realities and bloated Eagle egos that had characterized the political arena tonight we're going to hear from senator Tim Scott and trey Gowdy are congressman trey Gowdy senator Scott is a small businessman who served as the junior senator from South Carolina since 2013 in addition to owning an insurance agency and working as a financial adviser he previously served on the Charleston City Council for 13 years before being elected at the House of Representatives in 2010 a mere three years later he was appointed by then Governor nikki Haley to replace retiring Senator Jim DeMint then later won both a special election in 2014 as well as a general election in 2016 and he serves now as the first african-american senator from the state of South Carolina and the first african-american in the country to be elected both the US House and the US Senate since reconstruction he serves on the Senate Finance Committee the Senate help committee the Committee on small business and entrepreneurship and others having grown up at a poor and single-parent household he has made it a life mission to positively affect the lives of a billion people through the message of hope and opportunity joining him tonight is congressman trey Gowdy who is the US Representative for South Carolina's fourth District a former state and federal prosecutor he twice received the highest performance rating a federal prosecutor can secure as a Seventh Circuit Solicitor he started a violent violence against women task force expanded drug courts and created and implemented a program to help mothers break the expectant mothers break free from the cycle of addition addiction in 2010 along with his friend senator Scott he was elected to Congress and is now in his fourth term from 2014 to 2016 he's chaired the House Select Committee on events surrounding the 2012 terrorist attack in Benghazi last year became the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee as well as serving on committees for intelligence and the Judiciary Committee earlier this year congressman Gowdy announced he would not secret reelection and intends to soon return to practicing law in their spare time Senator Scott in congressman Gowdy have co-written the New York Times bestseller unified how our unlikely friendship gives us hope for a divided country and describes the genesis of their own friendship and the potential it shows for cultivating harmony amidst diversity and reconciliation amidst difference after both congressman Gowdy and Senator Scott give opening remarks we'll have a brief moderated conversation between them followed by questions from the audience congressman Gowdy the floor is yours I'm gonna go first because if you've been a DC long you know if the senator gets microphone we may be here for a little while so a lot of folks assume because Timmy and I are from the same state that we knew each other oh my no idea who he was until orientation the only intersection our lives had was he called me he said I'm gonna be a Walford College he was a candidate for lieutenant governor in the state of South Carolina at the time and he said I'm gonna be in Walford that's in Spartanburg if you have a chance I want you to come out and it will meet all the things in the world I wanted to do that night going to listen to a lieutenant governor's debate was like 112 so I didn't go but I read the paper the next day and lo and behold lieutenant governor candidate Tim Scott was a no-show for the debate didn't even call oh this guy's got a really bright political future I didn't go to the debate one day later I figured out why he was not going to run for lieutenant governor he was going to run for the United States House of Representatives where he beat among other people the son of Carroll Campbell who was a beloved governor in our state and the son of Strom Thurmond who was legendary and he beat a whole host of other folks we met an orientation he was the Elvis Presley of our historically large freshman class we had Kristi Noem and we had Sean Duffy and we had a live at Allen West we had a lot of famous people but Tim Scott was far and away the best known the most popular the most beloved member of our freshman class we met we were having dinner one night and Tim said I want to do something that will shock the world I said okay he said I want to write a book I so attended would shock the world if we read a book why why would we want to put the time and effort into writing wine and he said I want to write one and if you're not familiar with his life narrative how he grew up and the circumstances over which he rose that is the book I wanted him to write I wanted him to literally write the book from cotton to Congress because his grandfather mr. Aramis where pick cotton I never learned to read but was gonna have a grandson that could and that grandson because of the power and the magic of Education went from a family to pick cotton to a family that picked out a seat in the United States House that's the book I wanted him to write unbeknownst to me he's too modest then doesn't have sufficient ego to write a book about himself so he said let's write a book he's a unicorn and among my peers but he did not want to write a book about himself so we wrote a book about unity and I guess simply put this is why we both enjoy contrast contrast is what you would expect and is what you need in a functioning pluralistic Republic conflict which is what we have now is debilitating it is destructive it is what leads the political environment that I will soon be leaving but I thank the Lord he is willing to stay yeah I think the poll that caught my attention the most two-thirds of all Republicans do not have a Democrat friend and two-thirds of all Democrats do not have a Republican friend and I contrast that with my own household where I live with a 21 year old socialist it would be very very clear that is our daughter and not my wife my wife they look 21 but she is not 21 and she is not a socialist that would be our daughter whom I love more than anything in the world and to have to endure a nightly conversation about why marijuana should be legalized is a very small price to pay to have a relationship with somebody that you care about so we wanted to write a book explaining you can have all the differences and I get it when we're on our book tour of the media cell where you guys are both from South Carolina you're both the Republicans what in the world could you possibly not have in common so number one I want to celebrate the fact that a black guy and a white guy from South Carolina could be asked what could you guys possibly not have in common because that is progress in the state that we come from but the reality is we've had different experiences with law enforcement I've never been stopped except that I deserve to be stopped he was stopped seven times as an elected official but you look at the two of us who is most likely to present a threat to society everyone would pick me but I'm not the one getting stopped I don't wear a member pen I don't wear a US House pen I've never been denied egress to a Capitol building he wears the Senate pennant he's been physically stopped twice so I need his perspective on law enforcement we have different views on education there's not a greater champion for school choice in the world than him and there's not a night I want to sleep on the couch and I'm married to a first-grade public schoolteacher so we do have differences but the friendship I knew you'd get it eventually the friendship is intentional and so what we would like people to do is be intentional in seeking out a relationship with someone either of the different faiths or a different political persuasion they may not have this line it is impossible to hate something that you know and that is true in our own lives the very first two texts I got when I said I wasn't leaving it wasn't from Paul and Kevin they were in the top 20 it was from tulsi gabbard and Kyrsten Sinema you won't find two more progressive people in the house but to be able to have a relationship despite the fact that we never vote the same if we can do it then I would encourage my fellow citizens to do it and it's not that hard and that's why we wrote the book with that the very best person and all the politics who also happens to be my senator Tim Scott [Applause] everybody doing okay yeah Trey I don't want to just thank you for having a hairstyle tonight that we can really appreciate if that's can you just stand up and let everybody take one look at ya noted noted without any question there sometimes when he comes in and I'm just wow I said you took 20 minutes to do that he was like 25 minutes to do that oh my god that's a miracle without a question so Trey and I do come from the states um from the same state we have a lot in common but the reality of it is that we our experiences were very different growing up and one of the reasons why I think the good Lord that we were able to write this book and talk about how folks from different backgrounds can have a chance to have an experience a relationship and it's powerful that it's transformative is because in our state when we were growing up we would not have been able to play together we certainly couldn't go to the same restaurant stay at the same hotel or spend really any quality time together so that foundation really frames how we see the world he grew up in the house with a doctor and a loving mom I had a single mom who worked 16 hours a day in the hospital but as a nurse's aide so she basically turned patients over and clean bedpans and she did that for hours upon hours and days fun days and so my perspective my worldview was framed by a person who invested so much of her life and making sure that both of her sons could grow up and see a different world and so there's dignity in all work and that was one of the shared experiences Trey graduated laude I graduated thank you Loni so there's a lot of differences today when I was in high school I was flunking out I am probably the first United States Senator to ever fail out of high school I felt as a freshman I felt were geography I know I'm the first United States Senator to fail civics now I will say after five years in the US Senate I'm confident that I'm not the only one who fails to fix we need a whole lot of help in the United States in it I also felt Spanish and English so if you feel Spanish and English no one calls you bilingual they all call you by ignant because you can't speak any language that's where I came from trained as he has told me a few times grew up reading the dictionary or the encyclopedia he had choice literally one of the things I love about trigati is that he is a person who harnesses the English language and it can literally rip the skin off yeah as he cross examines you and it's a powerful gift but what made me want to write this book with Trey was lunch after lunch and mostly dinner after dinner for about five years I'm gonna believe that that that God is a genius and that he begins at the end and works his way back proverbs 27:17 as iron sharpens iron so one man does the other I did not know that for five years probably three nights a week for 42 to 44 weeks a year the Lord was preparing the soil for a friendship that would have to go through the fire of a church massacre where nine African Americans would lose their lives because a racist would walk into the church sit through a Bible study and then execute non-believers and for me to turn to a white guy from the same state minutes after I received the phone call that my friend who was a pastor of that church Clemente paint me and eight parishioners were gone Church were my uncle attended for over 50 years for the first person that I turned to after a racially motivated massacre was trey gowdy and it took me three or four weeks before I was able to reflect back at the power of love and the power of transformation to change my world in our world so much so that the most natural thing for me to do was to call Trey and if that is possible and a city not known for friendship all things are truly possible and if we spend more time breaking bread perhaps we would discover the kernels of truth that we are all so similar and we may disagree in areas but fundamentally we really want the same things and so a part of the blessing that God has given me is a strong clear thinker whose first response in the midst of a crisis is tell me what I can do to serve you that will change your life it certainly changed mine and I'm thankful that God planted the seed and gave it five years to germinate so that when the harvest was necessary it was plentiful thank you [Applause] well thank you so much for that Senator Scott and converse from the GAO di you ended with a story of Charleston really the first question I wanted to ask was a question you posed in the book congressman which is why does it take a calamity to lead us towards reconciliation well if I knew the answer I would not oppose the question at all I wouldn't I don't know but we see it time and time and time again in our in our country it takes a 9/11 it takes a natural disaster I do I for the life of me now I want to be fair in South Carolina the remnants of that unity and the relationships you build do last and they are there on the on the precipice of the next disaster but collectively what alongs me is that it requires a calamity a tragedy and what alarms me perhaps even more is that period of unity is getting shorter and shorter and shorter it is sometimes within 24 hours of a mass shooting of something we begin to run towards whatever part of the conversation is most divisive I'm not a big huge fan of the nature of man as Tim knows he's an optimist I am not so I'm there never disappointed and rarely surprised I don't I don't know amen brother amen I don't know why but I know that we need to find a way to capture the unity that day before the shooting and not the day after from my perspective I am hopeful and optimistic about the fact that constantly and continuously the aftermath mentality seems to be alive and well that the aftermath mentality where we're able to come together in spite of our differences is something that can be harnessed in hopefully we can figure out the key components to the after net a fatality without the crisis one of the ways that I have seen that work is not only through our friendship certainly spending that much time together astray said when he was talking it mentioned the the quote that it's hard to hate what you know part of the aftermath mentality is that we drop all of the walls that separate us into whether it's identity politics or whether there's a black race or the white race or whether you're poor rich we find ourselves rushing not to the middle for rushing towards love rushing towards acceptance because we are insulated by that gift the gift of love and if we're able to find that before the crisis I think will actually start preventing crisis so both of you mentioned both in your book and touched on in your remarks drawing a difference between contrast and conflict and aiming towards contrasts with an eye towards conciliation but away from conflict but you are both in an industry where conflict rather than contrast is rewarded by virtually any measure whether it's votes or attention or money a drawing sharp and even nasty distinctions and stoking conflict is what's often rewarded so in politics how do you win by aiming towards conciliation rather than conflict oh you want me to go first on everything okay I'll take this now give me a chance to think you're so good at thinking though yeah the whole conversation I had about you reading the encyclopedia in the dictionary did you miss that part almost because I had a mean dad nobody goes I like to do it well I think your dad that you did it so so from our perspective the way you win is by so I owned a couple of companies around selling and to me it's it's really about motivating and not manipulating so often in this town and throughout politics you're rewarded because you can monetize the separation you can monetize the division because we've learned how to monetize it it is simply the easiest common denominator for progress a harder but healthier approach is motivating people in their best interest if we can start with the end in mind it's easier for us to overcome that some of the legislative victories that I've seen in my career in the last five years has come from the ability to sell people on what is in our long-term best interests and whether it's a tax code or the opportunity zones or today we pass a sick-ass l legislation there are so many victories we've had in the last two years because we've been able to cobble together people who are interested in the same thing point us in the same direction and get a result without having to find a way to fight against the other side I think that politics should be about adding a game of addition and so far we've been able to succeed by having a an agenda that is focused on the greater good as Pollyanna as it seems we've had more legislative victories in the last really the last year of Obama's term in the these first two years and I've had in 20 years I think we we have to as a culture find a way to reject the relativism that is crept in this rationalization that the end justifies the means that's never been true in any other facet of life I'm a golfer which is one of the few sports where you actually call the penalty on yourself where no one else can see it in politics the objective is to win and if that means I have to say something that's not true about an opponent we have convinced ourselves that the fate of mankind depends upon whether or not my party is in power therefore whatever I do is justified and also I don't know how many folks in the rooms or believers other than my scheduler entomb I think I know their hearts but every hero I have had has lost it in the traditional sense Dietrich Bonhoeffer executed Martin Luther King assassinated went to prison Jesus lost voice vote to a guy named Barabbas there are worse things than losing but in politics we don't embrace that i i won't call any names but tim you'll know the race i'm talking about there was a runoff in south carolina and i watched someone who had a certain reputation for forty years of his life become something he was not in a runoff there is no race there is no office that should be worth that there's just not and until we say i'd rather lose and become something i'm not i won i've run one negative that in my career and it was against myself i made fun of my hair last cycle none of the above and if you purport to hold a set of values and it's not reflected in how you run your race then it makes me wonder how deeply you hold those values I've never seen a negative outcome if you've ever run one I've never seen it he won't even defend himself when people attack him yeah I got him jeopardize my own salvation to jump into he practices his religious beliefs the only belief I really see in politics now is just we got to win let me go back to something you said senator which is the difference between our darker instincts which are so easily monetized and the better angels of our nature which takes so much more work to cultivate and you see of course that play out really in so many spheres not just politics we all long for true love and yet it's porn that's a multi-billion dollar industry it's much easily easier to both weaponize monetize the darker instincts and trade one of things you said in the book was which was all quote with the possible exception of love TV is the most powerful force on the planet as people who work in politics TV and love pull you in very different directions acting for the cameras pulls you in a very different direction then working towards conciliation and personal relationships what advice or practices do you engage in to essentially kind of order your priorities and your love so that your your practice is in line with the highest and best as opposed to the most advantageous or practical this heart which is and I'm not saying that I've always pulled it off I television people want to be entertained and they they may agree we're too conflicted but they want to see it and sometimes the personalities that make it to television at night are the most extreme personalities I don't know how many people here know who Phil row is only me buddy knows who Phil Roe is maybe some of them do but I could call the names of some of my colleagues and they'd all know who they were so we reward it you can you can become famous I won't name names all the can I'm leaving if you want to become well-known quickly you know I remember I remember Paul not the Apostle Paul Paul Ryan about slowly building your credibility slowly building your reputation or you can be known in about six weeks by just being overtly provocative I don't know whether to blame us collectively for having an appetite for it or I think politicians reflect culture as opposed to lead it III think we're we are a lagging indicator of where the culture is and if the culture wants that kind of gladiator type mentality the other thing that just drives me nuts are the debates for them to be the leader of the free world we're gonna give you a minute to answer a question and we've all we've accepted that okay well I hope they can I hope Tim can squeeze his tax plan in in the minute but our attention spans are so small we we might not give you more more than a minute to tell us what his jobs plan is so it's this intersection of entertainment and politics and a market for the combat that is led to the current state of television view more than a minute okay well I'd start off by reflecting on the importance of distilling love down to some basic components perhaps perusing through first Corinthians 13 for a little while would be an important engagement and not simply seeing love and TV as polarizing challenges perhaps leveraging TV for the cause that you love perhaps a great example of that is what Trey Gaudi has done over his career you will not find trigati on TV talking about economic policy no not let's slice look on a question they didn't warn me about you know but what you will find him talking about and engaging on TV is around issues of the law of the justice system about investigations because in his heart trigati still a prosecutor he's driven not as a prosecutor he's driven as a man who has a passion and a love for justice and for truth and for clarity because of that he's able to leverage TV to put on display a passionate pursuit of something he truly loves one of the reason why he's so he's so good on TV because it's authentic now some people are really good so they can fake authenticity but he doesn't and I think that's part of the challenge that we have as people of faith and people of character is to figure out how to use the resources that we have to include mass media in a way of starting a new conversation a new debate about the good that we should be doing and how to get it done and stay in your lane if you I'm a salesman a business owner I enjoy selling at marketing I like numbers I like to talk about economic policy I have no idea what he's talking about sometimes so when I need legal expertise I turn to Trey and allow him to feed me the necessary information to have a conversation about something I don't know about as the United States Senator I've been given the distinct responsibility and privilege of choosing judges and appointments my chief counsel doesn't work for me it's straight out because he has a world view and 25 years of experience that informs and educates me in an area that I don't love but it's still my responsibility I've gotten better at my work but it's because I've had a great teacher so learn to use what you learn to use what you have which is mass media to serve what you love as opposed to serving mass media which which is a line of delineation that sometimes we confuse so we're timely in this discussion of faithful friendship amidst difference what role does your shared faith play in either the formation or the sustenance of your friendship well there yo might not have picked up on this yet but I'm a cynical person the I have no defense for an authentically lived life I can't rationalize my way out of it and I have I've been blessed that I live with the most christ-like person that I have ever met in my life I've got a scheduler that would be the number two most christ-like person this guy I there's a verse he'll know where it is but I know it's a verse to work out your salvation with fear and trembling and that s also will book by key foulard but it's a verse and so in my mind I am constantly trying to work out I think we believe the same things but our view of mankind could not be more different I am NOT an optimist I am I'm a skeptic and a cynic and that leads to certain a certain slough of despond from time to time he mentioned the shooting in Charleston his reaction to the shooting did more to enhance my faith I was not aggrieved I'm not black I'm not from Charleston and I'm sitting there thinking just like Habakkuk asked God how could you possibly let this happen you could have found the million other ways to get your point across how why did you let this happen but it was his reaction to the shooting and that of the victims who look Dylan roof in the eyes and said we forgive you it is really other people's faith that enhances mine and I'm just blessed that I get to spend time around someone who's actually better in private than he is in public if that's possible his faith has made my faith stronger because Trey in his essence is inquisitive so if you talk to Trey about you know looking at it from the cynics perspective that John 10:10 talks about but there's a thief that comes to kill steal and destroy I'm on the other side but you know there's this guy come in to bring life more abundant you know Tori will spend an hour asking questions and probing what it means to have someone steal kill and destroy I'll move on to try you're seeing it wrong yeah God also didn't give us the spirit of fear it gives us power love and sound mind he'll say well talked about talk to me about the development of your mind and they'll he'll take me down a historical path what it happened was and so what I find is that my faith has been strengthened by the conflict and the challenges and the pain in the misery of my life I have found that God never fails I have found that ultimately things work out for my good but Trey helps me to do is to ask better questions along the way so that perhaps I get there faster because I am a slow learner and Trey because of its foundational questions about faith about history about literature and about the meaning of words challenges me to take a second look and if I stray too far in his direction then he finds this hopeful cynic arises and draws me back to my side of the aisle and so it's it's a amazing journey to have someone who can challenge your faith and you can listen to him if you want to don't believe the hype that he doesn't know Scripture he knows not only the the chapter and verse well not always but he knows it pretty well he always knows the history around it he understands the foundation and how it connects to other parts of the scripture and then he takes it and transposes it into a historical setting and can have a conversation there so it's a deep knowledge it's the rivers of living water that are found in a canyon I want to tell you one thing that he that that I will never forget I couldn't forget my kids names I can forget important things like how far I hid my sandwich I can forget all the important things and I will never forget I may know the questions but I don't live the answers the way he does when we were freshmen somebody wrote something terrible by him in a blog back home it was but there's more than terrible it was defamatory it was actionable and back then I didn't know you didn't go rush up to your colleagues and say hey did you read that terrible story there's nobody I know you don't do that but so I go into his office he's in Longworth I'm in Longworth I go into his office I buzz right past this receptionist and I said Tim did you read this we got to do something by I'm sick of it I'm just sick of it we're not gonna sit here be a pinata what this person wrote is despicable it is libelous we're gonna do something about it he said I go into my office close the door good finally mr. mr. Christian is gonna go to be a little tougher so I'll close the door and he says we're gonna pray for I looked him right dead in the eye with the Lord as my witness I looked him right dead in the eye and I said yeah you pray for him I'm not going to and he said will you sit with me while I do and I sat there and listened to him pray for someone who had written something libelous scandalous inaccurate about him and i sat there furious even though I wasn't the victim and he sat there and did exactly what the scripture tells you to do so you're right I'm they know the question but I don't live the answer not the way he does I'm a very flawed individual honey I mean you had that days you didn't help me come up with a person by you know the grace I could get absolutely listen or wooden things you said in your book you said if we're going to change the world it will happen through friendship it will happen as each of us enlarges our comfort zone to make room for unlikely friendships with people with whom we may have a little in common I think for most of us that sounds great in theory yes but life is full there are obligations and other relationships than duties that pull at us from all quarters so what advice would you give to people who genuinely would like to do this in theory and perhaps struggle to make it happen in practice well one of my Senate colleagues James Langford was a youth pastor in Oklahoma for a very long time had a couple hundred thousand youngsters go through his youth camps and he and I have been friends for a while and he came up with a concept that I co-sponsored called solutions Sunday getting people who are not like each other to sit down at a table typically in your home and break bread and have a conversation about what you have in common too often estrella said we run to conflict we want to be in a position talking about that those things that are different which we contrast but we run the conflict what we hope to accomplish through solution Sunday's is having a safe place in an environment that you would not normally have that conversation with someone who's not like you and it works fabulously another way to do it is to simply put yourself in the other person's shoes and find a project to work on together Habitat for Humanity is a wonderful place to learn a lot about yourself and your construction skills which I have none but it's a great place to is as good as breaking bread tray has in a powerful way entered into the shoes of a father whose daughter was murdered and brought about a transformation any person in a way that I could never articulate or understand but it's in the book it's an amazing story would you mind sharing that because I do think that that is perhaps the best example of the power of hope transforming a life that could be filled with bitterness and unforgiveness forever but because of what you did it changed someone's life I think you put your finger on which is trying to put yourself in the shoes of someone else I had a man named Eddie all his daughter he had a beautiful beautiful 19 year old daughter named Miranda that was tragically killed and when I was a DA I would meet with the parents and homicide cases and he came in and he didn't even sit out wouldn't even sit down said there's no way a white man is going to understand or value a young black females life he wasn't ugly about it he was resolute so it made me sit there and think okay how does the justice system value life it would be a tough case do I take a plea do I value her life at ten years what I value it the same way I would the principle at the local high schools kid so as you might imagine I decided I was going to take that case for myself and prove him wrong and we went to trial and at the conclusion of the trial the same man that said there's no way wouldn't even sit in my office no way I could value his daughter's life I think he watched a white guy try as best he could to put himself in the shoes of a man who had just lost his daughter so he hugged me after the trial he's hooked me every time I've seen him since out in Spartanburg and I went on a plant tour I guess about a year and a half ago and I'm in some concrete plant in Greenville and this worker comes up to me and says you and I have a mutual friend and I thought oh dear Lord trying to keep that a secret be real quiet my chief of staff's over here for you say who it is he said Eddie all so we go from I'm not even going to sit down in your office - Eddie's apparently telling people and any admit him that you're friends with the US congressman takes a lot this day and so for him to be able to do that when Timmy was talking I thought we I just left a restaurant and he and I eat at almost every night we're in Washington we know tons of details about the lives of the men and women who not just wait on the tables but the cooks Johnny Ratcliffe and I were in the back tonight watching the cook make a certain dish so you got a congressman from Texas a US senator that are on a first-name basis with a cook at a restaurant are you intentional about it what when whenever life puts you in it now yeah be careful not to judge you don't have any idea what you have in common with someone and you can't tell it from a book's cover but if you are whether it is the lady that takes the money at the gas station where I fill up if you we'll just treat people with kindness and look them in the eye and just act like you're remotely interested in their lives it does not take much to start I'm not talking about naming your kids after one another I'm just talking about giving each other the benefit of the doubt you know my daughter is to the left of Chairman Mao and so is everyone or her friends but if you say something bad about me on Facebook even if it's true they will defend me even though there's not another Republican they would ever vote for because they think they well I know I many he's wrong but he's well-intentioned take the time give them the benefit of the doubt see what you have in common I mean the politics is the most divisive thing particularly now so I mean we start with sports you know which we're both Cowboys fans so some people that is dismissive we pull for the same thing God pulls for just start with something but Medaille use is intentional just be intentional and your desire to reach out to someone that would be surprised that you did so either because of their station in life or a religious difference or a racial difference I think about 80% of us have about 80% of life in common it's just accepting it and then being intentional about identifying that it's me again here not asking to marry you're just trying to start a friendship one of the things that I try in his idea unfortunately I wish it was mine but it was really his after the challenges that we had in South Carolina and we've put together a group of pastors and african-american leaders and law enforcement officers to start having a conversation now he's the congressman for Greenville and Spartanburg but he would travel the entire state and he's retiring so he's not running for anything see he traveled the entire state to listen to people who had he has no reason to listen to except for he believes that somehow it may make our state healthier that's why they get starts with love that's why I think it starts with checking our first Corinthians and taking a perusal through the 13th chapter and understanding appreciating if we distill the component parts down you do find a path forward it has to be intentional and it will be uncomfortable but the longer you do it the more comfortable it becomes the more you want to add to it it's been suggested that our mobility and our rootlessness is one of the major contributors to the decline of friendship in the country it's harder to sustain friendships when you're not in the same place and you both are about to enter a new chapter congressman Gowdy you're retiring and it seems unlikely that you'll be able to continue to have dinner together five times a week at the same restaurant where you know everybody you didn't tell me that part have you thought about what is next for your friendship and how ways you're going to sustain it across a geographic distance well I mean quite honestly our friendships to the point now where if a day goes by that we have not communicated he likes emojis I'd rather have I can't figure what all of me by the way we tax a lot we talk I will be a DC some the law firm as a DC office he obviously is going to be my senator so he'll be but um this is the best way I can tell you that our relationship will never change I recently updated what I would like to happen when my wife puts a DNR order on my chest when I'm taking a nap and now I'm not resuscitated it is just a nap honey don't don't lay a DNR order on my chest I want him to preach my funeral which means he's gonna have to for two reasons number one he's really really good and he's great at leaving out the bad stuff so I watched him preach his grandfather's funeral and it was amazing it's hard I mean he loved his grandfather but he was better than any paid preacher I've seen so he's gonna have to stay involved in my life because it's my dying wish that you take about three hours to try to alright two hours to do my funeral God said we will we teach a class together I think hopefully the Lord willing he is gonna write a book about his life and I am out of pop I tell everyone I am out of politics unless Tim's got lunch for president and then I will come by and knock on whatever doors preferably in some high-end neighborhoods I'll knock on whatever doors in Iowa he wants me to knock on I do think that we have a couple projects will keep us moving forward I think teaching a class together we taught at Clemson University go Tigers bonded you a wife is a project let us pray I've been reading proverbs 18:22 for a long time it doesn't give me a timeline I do think that teaching class together will be helpful writing a couple books hopefully in the future will be helpful but God has done something that I that is permanent with our friendship and I love when tracings me you know the the black praying hands from the white dude from the darkest black busy good book okay so I'm I like emojis he's got a human right there is no male no female nor Jew no Gentile y-yeah so I can see whatever color fist I want to say LA and he's got one that has an afro as well which is really interesting I had gone that hairstyle yet but it's all the less this common we're going to turn now to that what's always the most dynamic and interesting part of our evening conversation which is hearing from you and those of you who have been to evening conversations before know that we have three guide lines for questions we ask all of you to keep your questions brief keep them civil and keep all questions in the form of a question so we have two volunteers with with microphones please wait till the microphone comes to you in order to speak if you could identify yourself as well and I'm gonna stand up so I can see you and call on you but questions for the congressman or the senator right there hi my name is Daniel Turner I'm from Columbia South Carolina first I just want to thank you both for how well you represent our state thank you my question is about the role of the church and developing this unity of spoken about it's often said that Sunday mornings are the most segregated time of the day what role have you seen the church play in developing this unity and what do you want to see moving forward yeah that's a unfortunate fact that still persists you can blame that on style of worship and a lot of things but some of it's just our inability to to want to change so we have some challenges to do within the church but the church is in fact the only hope for real reconciliation and unity advocacy second Chronicles 7:14 that talks about a remnant of people if my people not the entire nation not the average person and not the person who attends church but if my people people who have this passion that beats in their heart for each other because they have experienced a Grace and a forgiveness that blows them away that gives them this yearning for love and to share it with others that power germinates in people and draws us together and the only place that I've seen that it actually happens consistently is the church I happen to go to a church that is a fairly large church in South Carolina place called seacoast and we have multiple campuses we have diversity that goes from 9:00 to 10:00 at one campus to 5050 at another campus so it's a work in progress but my pastor happens to be my mentor and he always tells me that I have the right to be wrong which is an interesting concept for for him too but for me as well just joking Greg I'm sorry I forgot this is being recorded I just could just get joking so the church will be the bridge that brings us together and in the end I'm sure that Adam and Eve is where it started and so we're all related we just have to realize it I would just say you can't think of a barrier that Christ didn't break down so if you call yourself a believer let me just look at the parable not the parable the story the woman - well I mean there are half dozen barriers Timmy mentioned that verse if if my people who called themselves Beaumont is that right if my people who called himself by my name absolutely he did not say if Congress would only be in session more if only the Senate would do away with its 60-vote rule if only the supreme court would take certiorari on something if my people so if you're waiting on government to lead this you will be disappointed and you should not if you're a believer you should not wait you purport to believe in the most unifying equalising person who's ever lived so you shouldn't wait on government other questions in the back hey y'all thanks for coming my name is John Allen Riggins just started career just graduated law school starting a career in the legal profession I'm sorry yeah and it so you know thinking about when de Tocqueville came he saw such value in the legal community and now I think for most people it seems like lawyers are more of hired guns so I'd be interested in kind of this conflict between law being a adversarial process and this goal of reconciliation the law as a method of reconciliation representative Gowdy what you think as someone inside the legal profession and Senator Scott more importantly as someone outside the legal profession what me the purpose of the justice system is just that it is a just result oh we call it a verdict which it means to speak the truth we've chosen to go at that in an adversarial with an adversarial system we could have chosen other things there are other countries that have other ways of getting at it but we use examination and cross-examination then we trust our fellow citizens to speak the truth so while yes I never viewed myself as a prosecutor as a my goal was not to get a conviction my goal is to present the state's case and do it in a way that inspired public confidence even if that means losing the case you know keep in mind prosecutors dismiss almost half the cases that come into their office I don't care who the best criminal defense attorney you can think of Abbie Lowell whoever you want to think about he cleared 50% of the cases he's got so a prosecutor's job is is to really to be a minister of justice and I believe that the whole time I was one look there's more civility in a death penalty case of which I've done more than a half a dozen then there is in a congressional committee hearing so if you worried about the real lack of civility don't run for Congress go do death penalty cases all you would think the states would be pretty high in a capital case and they are but there's more civility more fairness more not characterizing the motives of the other side Menace saben it's true there is more civility in a capital case than there is in the modern political system so keep on doing your law just don't go into politics and be modify state you said John Riggins are you related to John Riggins yeah there's time so for me if you think about de Tocqueville's a visit to America in the 1800s one of the things that was his conclusion was that the greatness of our nation wasn't found in all the institutions that we would name naturally and instinctively but it was found in our houses of worship and so if you think about who we are as a nation the judeo-christian foundation seems to have permeated in such a way that our legal system was designed around the ten commandments and so as the outsider looking in I have great confidence in our legal system and its ability to become more perfect I think of Frederick Douglass early on fighting for my freedom by not throwing the Constitution out but asking our nation to live up to the vast majority of what was in the Constitution of course not a three-fifths of a man but the fact is that what has really helped to create the greatest nation on earth is this notion that we have to live under the rule of law which means that the poorest and the weakest person who has something gets to keep it which is not the nature of man and so our legal system is framed in such a way that in America the poorest person the weakest person the person who is the outlier has just as much success and just as many rights in the the legal system then does the richest person now we are not perfect because it's the human beings within the system that is the fly in the ointment but our legal system itself is in fact a system that is becoming more perfect because the men and women of this nation are demanding more perfection or for us to live closer to the conviction that we had when it was written did that make sense other questions go over here thank you thank you so much senator representative my name is Hanna Wardell I'm a Capitol Hill staffer who barely finds time for essential friendships so I really admire your priority of it but I wonder in a society in an institution like Congress that prioritizes outputs and productivity over relationships are there institutional changes that need to happen to make it a more hospitable place for friendship redistricting you know I I was talking to a former member a couple of days ago who is lamenting the fact that we all go home on the weekends and you know you children are unifying if they're in a school play whether you're Republican Democrat or bull moose you want the play to end stuck there all night long I didn't say that did I you want everybody to do well in the play so the fact that we're all you know mean you can blame the commercial airline we all do go home but the reality is again that reflects that's reflective of the people who sent us if I were to have told people in South Carolina hey hey I'm gonna move to Washington I would have been retired six years ago that's not what they want we're in the gym the gym is the most unifying place um but I got to tell you unless you're in leadership and you're just expected to not get along the overwhelming majority of us have very good relationships with each other and that is true when you are having a terrible day you look at your phone and see who is offering you words and encouragement so it's not the member to member it's the fact that we don't feel comfortable saying it publicly which again reflects more on the people we work for than it does on us the fact that I got to sit there and think do I want to dime tulsi out for sending me a very kind text when I left I shouldn't even have to think about that but I did the first time I said it now it's out but we what Peter Welch do you know Peter very progressive guy from Vermont that's who had my going-away party he had him there yeah Joey there he had Ratcliffe he knew who my friends were you come to a dinner at State of the Union night it's it's half Republicans it's half Democrats it's we just don't feel comfortable saying it it's not being recorded is it we don't feel comfortable saying it publicly I love the bosses back at home by the way yeah tell which one still staying in the game I said that sincerely I did too though I think on capita you didn't but you said I think that's probably true and funny so on Capitol Hill one of the challenges I think is we this is unfortunately a dog-eat-dog world called DC to to move forward you are oftentimes willing to push your so-called friends to the side and climb over their bodies to get to the next rung on the ladder and I see that happen rather is members or staff the one thing that we've done because not because of me and my chief of staff is that a really good job of trying to create a culture in the office that is more like a family that is driven by strong relationships and not transactional relationships which allows for a a true bond to grow they've the same it's true and Trey's office I find it very interesting that on the weekends that my staff will send me a you know a shot of four or five of them going to church together or three or four of them hanging out watching the Clemson Tigers hopefully lose to the Carolina Gamecocks which we hope for the same thing get you in more trouble by anything I said and on the front row view by the way I thought the big comes team tiger Paul there so I had to say something Alan knows oh yes but they'll do fun things together and what I what I think is interesting is that very very often that they'll have folks from other offices coming by our office for our Thanksgiving potluck or our Christmas dinner tomorrow night tray will come and others will come as well so you have to be intentional about creating a culture or somewhere fortunately I can do that in my entire office we have learned how to do that if we want real friendships to actually grow because you can't force it right you've got to be in a place where you're spending enough time with the person that it starts making a difference in your life and then you opt to sacrifice something else to spend time with them it is hard for us to do dinner every night that we're in town together sometimes we have to do it at a fundraiser sometimes we have to do it before the fundraiser or after an event like this it takes intentionality for us to plan our schedules in advance but it only happens because we've spent enough time together growing that friendship it wouldn't would not have happened in our first year in Congress but find people who have passion like you have if you want to create a culture in this city where you have a chance to see real friendships grow we're going to take one more question the gentleman in the back there good evening my name is Stanley more I live right here in Washington DC my question deals with pride and humility so often both of you are so humble and speak so well of each other compliment one another I want you both to speak was there time earlier in life where maybe you lean more on pride and really hurt a valuable relationship I'll take that one unfortunately the answer for me the answer is yes I remember it was it's happened several times I'm just gonna give you a the clearest example that I have I was on a 15 years ago maybe longer I was on a national TV show for the first time and came back home and my pastor you know it was excited for me as well so he said yeah we had that because of Councilman atomic County Councilman Tim Scott was on national TV and he stood me up in church and they all applauded it and my chest got bigger and my head got bigger one of the reasons why our Senate pins by the way are so small compared to let me speak into the house pin Eagles are much bigger so just remember that and and so I was filled with some pride James 4:10 I had not read yet by the way and started acting in a way that was not in my best interests or the best wishes of my friends I wanted to talk about my show incessantly and I heard this voice in church the next Sunday where the good Lord said to me you do real well on the on the on the stage can you serve me when no one's watching and my obvious answer was of course I can God and and then the next thing I knew I was instructed to start by the good Lord I think to clean the church bathroom and at that time we had three or four thousand members and I knew it was I said I rebuke you in the name of Jesus and several hours later having cleaned enough stalls to realize that men need to step closer Lee seriously please help the brother out just step on that one more time I walked away with realizing how much and how quickly pride can consume and then destroy the vessel that is in and it took me having to wrestle with that conversation and the couple friends poked me in the side telling me to get it together and then that final word from the Lord that helped me in a 7-day period come back to earth and trying to anchor myself to it but that could have been a trail for years and I wouldn't have him sitting on this stage that's the last prideful thing you've ever done or fall I can tell you that the whole time I've known you I've never seen a glimpse of it when you look at the spiritual gifts I think the only one I've got it's discernment and that is the best apply to yourself so I've talked to Mary Langston and everyone that works with me about self-awareness and so you better practice it and if you do have self-awareness and you are motivated by a fear of failure and not a desire for success then you don't really fight pride because it means you're constantly aware of where you're not good and you're constantly fearful of failing I think the people who struggle with pride the most are the ones who are motivated by a desire for success I if I were to watch one of my interviews on television I would be nitpicking what I did wrong and how I could do better the next time and how ridiculous that comment was I would not have time to think gosh I was just I I've got a thousand weaknesses my wife will be happy to give them to you in whatever order you want but pride just would not be one of them because if you have self-awareness which I would encourage everyone to develop and you should be most acutely aware of your own deficiencies and that would be a great defense to pry to know where you're not very good and need to get better we want to convince to you their book unified how our unlikely friendship gives us hope for a divided country it is for sale there we have just a few copies which are going to be for sale for $25 right over there on the book table we hope that you will avail yourself of that opportunity we also want to come into you in addition to reading their book reading the invitation that should be on each of your seats which is to join the Trinity forum Society the tree forum society is a community of like-minded or open-minded fellow travelers who want to grapple with the big questions of life in the context of faith it helps support programs such as this not only here in Washington DC but really around the country it is a vital part of making these kind of programs and these kind of discussions and this very unique space to grapple with those questions possible so we would really encourage you to consider that invitation and to join to sweeten the pot a little bit further we do have special incentives to join tonight which is the first ten people who joined the Trinity forum Society will get a previously signed copy of senator Ascot and congressman gaudi's book I'm not sure whether the others are sign or not but you can guarantee that you will get a signed copy by joining the Trinity forum Society tonight this is just one of many benefits of being part of the society in addition to discounted registration for events such as this you also receive our quarterly readings where we try to take the of literature and letters add an introduction explaining context and background discussion questions in the back so that it is a book club in a bag as well as our daily what we're reading curated list of reading recommendations and our monthly podcast and the like you also help support these programs and make this possible not only here but for many others around the country if you'd like to share this event tonight we'll have photos on Facebook and encourage you to tag your friends to share that and the video and if you would like to help sponsor other conversations like this we would love to talk with you my colleague Colleen O'Malley horks if you can stand so people can see you this is the best person to talk with about sponsoring other programs such as this yes I think a round of applause is in order there and if my other colleagues ELISA Abraham and Becca Noyes could stand in a wave these are the people to talk to about joining the Trinity forum Society and I understand you will be right in the back at the table where they can take your registrations there we also hope that you will join us for future evening conversations this is actually our last evening conversation of the year we'll be releasing a part of our night 2019 roster very soon so stay tuned we hope you will join us for those our final reading group of the year will be taking place next week on December 17th we'll be discussing Dorothy Days the long loneliness with an introduction by Ann Brooks and David Brooks and encourage you to sign up for that the reading group is free but registration is required finally as we wrap up it is always appropriate to end with thanks and there are many people that we are thankful for tonight including our sponsor and co-host the Pepperdine School of Public Policy led by its very able Dean Pete Peterson whose vision and support have made this evening possible I'd also just like to thank the staff of our speakers for their work in making tonight possible I know we were joined by Joe McKeon from Senator Scott's office and Mary Langston Willis and Congressman gaudi's office we were so glad to have them join us as well as our volunteers who have labored humbly in the background to to help us put on this event tonight Elise I'm as drawers Amanda Kwok Timothy Wolfe and Matthew McKnight thank you so much for your work tonight thanks also to our ever stellar photographer clay Blackmore and to my fantastic colleagues Colleen Horrocks Alyssa Abraham crobat and Becca noise thank you again to our recently departed speakers tonight Senator Scott and congressman Gowdy and finally to each of you for your presence and participation tonight thank you and good night [Applause]

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Length: 84min 44sec (5084 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 12 2018