Evening Conversation with Os Guinness on "Celebrating the 500th Anniversary of the Reformation"

hello how was that that sounded pretty loud keep coming in just make yourselves comfortable find a seat and if we need more I'm sure that we'll be able to put them there it's so good to see so many people my name is Pryce Harding I am the chairman of the board of the Trinity forum and I really just want to welcome everybody tonight to what I know will just be a spectacular program I was with our two speakers just a minute ago in the back and somebody came up and said you know I just know it's gonna be great tonight and I thought to myself you know almost everything that people bill as being worthy of watching has to people that are in opposition to one another who are increasingly shrill opposition to one another and and it becomes really just a loud fighting match and so I'm hoping that we get there tonight but the odds at the Trinity forum are against it because unlike almost everyone else in a space that tries to truly influence thought and that tries to truly work hard to influence the way that leaders link the Trinity forum does it with civility right at the front and with the purpose of engaging on issues that are important and that's what we'll do tonight so I want to just welcome you into this realm I want you to enjoy and relax our speakers are both just phenomenal I've known Joe Laconte for years and participated in some work at the Kings College up in Manhattan where he's he is posted and I'm having as guinness as our primary keynote tonight is just also extraordinary you know I'll tell you one reason that you may not know and that is his chairman of the Trinity forum I'm approached continually by people who tell me that they were one of the founders of the Trinity forum and I may have met five eight 10 12 maybe 15 people who have assured me that they were one of the founders of the Trinity forum one thing I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is tonight you'll get to hear from the founder of the Trinity forum who truthfully in and in in relationship to Al McDonald and Ozzie honest and and yes certainly a few others because I know we're being televised I know they're out there but lots of people who were involved in founding it sit back and relax and enjoy what I know will be a spectacular evening Sheree well many thanks for that price and I'd like to welcome all of you to tonight's evening conversation celebrating the 500th anniversary other Reformation and celebrating it as the Forgotten key to American freedom we're especially grateful to Henry known as Bud Smith and his wife Jane who are the underwriters of tonight's program to make it possible it's with deep gratitude that we want to thank and acknowledge them and also want to mention that while there are so many people that we could thank tonight there are a number of first-time visitors here there's a number of people who have been involved from the very outset of the forum here today we have a delegation from North Carolina a delegation from Indiana also just one of thinks our our chairman as well as trustee Richard miles who joined us here this evening but thank you to each of you for coming for those of you who are kind of stalwart sticking it out in the back with standing room only thank you for your sacrifice well hopefully we'll have some chairs in there soon so you can be seated as well but we're really delighted that each and every one of you could be here to know tonight as you can tell as you probably know we sold out very quickly so if you had friends who wanted to be here tonight and just could not make it or a languishing on the waiting list fear not we will be both a live streaming you can text them now to let them know to tune in I will also be posting video from tonight as well as pictures on Facebook tag your friends let them know and they'll be able to follow along as well if this is your first time here tonight and you are not familiar with eternity form I always like to start off and tell people a little bit about who we are what we do and why and we work to provide a space and resources for leaders to engage life's greatest questions in the context of and we do this by providing readings and other publications which draw upon classic works of literature and letters to connect the timeless wisdom of the humanities with timely issues of the day as well as sponsoring programs such as the one tonight to connect leading thinkers with thinking leaders in engaging those big questions of life and ultimately in coming to better know the author of the answers and certainly one of the great questions of life is how to order adjust and free society and how such a system of ordered Liberty can be sustained and so on this the very eve of the 500th anniversary of the day that Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses into the wall or the door of All Saints Church in Wittenberg sparking the start of the Reformation tonight our speakers will argue that the Reformation actually had a profound influence not only on how millions around the world understand and practice their faith but it's also shaped our own American experiment in ordered Liberty by this thinking the covenant theology the Reformation had profound repercussions for our own time as our country was founded not only with the social contract the Constitution but also with a covenant articulated in the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and maintaining our sense of ordered Liberty that requires not only the continuance of the state but also strengthening the covenant 'el institutions of families communities churches and the voluntary associations that form character and therefore undergird our free society it is a fascinating as well as provocative argument and there are a few who can make it with the eloquence the energy or the expertise as our speakers tonight our keynote speaker oz Guinness and respondent Jolla Conte now oz Guinness is certainly a man who needs no introduction but of course he will get one anyway and was thinking about how to best introduce Oz to an audience who already knows him of course he's in a sociologist a social critic I'm very proud to say as our Chairman did the founder of the Trinity forum but it also struck me that Oz may have certain characteristics that he shares with the instigator of the Reformation Martin Luther Martin Luther was known for his love of great beer and even became a craft brewer himself oz went a step further his great great grandfather is the Dublin brewer Arthur Guinness Luther was born into a time of political tumult oz was born to missionary parents in China during World War two was a witness the Chinese Revolution and later expelled from the country with other expatriates Luther studied a variety of topics including law before determining his vocation as an Augustinian monk oz Oz's career took a different path but certainly moved in a variety of directions including serving as a freelance reporter for the BBC a scholar at the Woodrow Wilson Center a fellow at the Brookings Institution the executive director of the Williamsburg charter foundation and of course the founder of the Trinity forum Luther was a prolific writer popularizing theology for the thoughtful layperson oz has written or edited more than 25 books including the American hour the time for truth the call invitation to the classics long journey home a case for civility a Free People suicide and the global public square and of course like Martin Luther when it comes to presenting his theses or making his point as always nails it [Music] [Applause] responding to Oz will be historian Joel acanti and Joe is so indisputably Italian I thought it was really worthless to try to compare him to a German monk Joe is an associate professor of history at King's College where he teaches Western civilization in American foreign policy previously served as a distinguished visiting professor at the Pepperdine school for Public Policy he was a senior fellow at the ethics and Public Policy Center a senior fellow of the Trinity forum I am very proud to say he is a prolific writer and commentator writing for the New York Times The Washington Post The Wall Street Journal the New Republic the Weekly Standard and NPR and in fact within the last four days he has published pieces on the Reformation in both The Wall Street Journal and in National Geographic magazine his international credits include the london-based publication standpoint magazine and he is a also a prolific author whose books include The Searchers the quest for faith in the valley of doubt God Locke and Liberty the end of illusions how religious leaders confront Hitler's Gathering Storm and his latest work a hobbit a wardrobe and a Great War how j.r.r tolkien and CS lewis rediscovered faith friendship and heroism in the Claddagh cataclysm of 1914 and 1918 in addition Joe is also working on a four-part documentary based on that book stay tuned for that trailer out in the fall so after oz delivers his keynote remarks we will hear a response from Joel accounting and then we'll hear from both of them with questions from you up here on the stage oz welcome [Applause] Thank You Sheree I thought she was gonna say the real parallel like Martin Luther I owe everything to my wife that's the real that she was not a nun far from it it's a real delight to be a real delight to be back in the Trinity forum again and to be with you all when she said it was sold out you could sell out a telephone kiosk in five minutes so this is not exactly the Press Club at short notice but it's a real delight to be with you again as Sheree said I was born in China and grew up in the ancient Ming capital of Nanking Nanjing as it is today Nanking had been brutalized by the Rape of Nanking in 1937 it had suffered incredible privations in World War two and it was threatened by the looming army of lianbao and the Communist troops but despite all that had gone through you could see the majesty of its past magnificent city walls wonderful tree-lined avenues and the incredible ming tombs in 1500 Nanking was the capital of the most powerful prosperous city in the world the Ming Emperor's were powerful wise and could afford to be expensive they sent a fleet to Africa with ships four times the size of Columbus's they sent a million men to build the 100,000 buildings that became the Forbidden City in Beijing no one in their right mind in 1500 would ever dream that China would be rivaled let alone eclipsed and dominated by what they considered a cultural backwater way off in the West off the rocky landmass of Asia but of course that's what happened and suddenly Europe eclipsed and dominated China and then the West and then America and many other parts of the West and as the Chinese after those centuries of humiliation regained their power they raised the question rather like a certain lady recently what happened and there was a famous discussion of the Chinese Academy of the social sciences and they asked how on earth could China been overtaken by the West was it Western guns no was it Western politics partly but not really was it Western economics again partly but not fully and their conclusion at the end of the discussion it was in fact Western religion the Christian faith but at that point some Jewish scholars jumped into the argument said that's accurate but not precise enough because if you think the Christian faith had been dominant in Europe since the fourth century when Theodosius declared Rome Christian but had not dominated the world what was it that suddenly took Europe to its position as a dominant power in modernity and the Jewish scholars pointed out it was in fact not the Christian faith in general but the Reformation in particular the Reformation in particular and historians now say at the 500th anniversary that the Reformation for better or worse gave the single strongest set of ideas that has made the modern world what it is although in many cases with unseen consequences or the unknown aftermath sinned in ways that were surprised the Reformers themselves now of course there were many Reformation before the Reformation within the Reformation and of course the counter-reformation was a Reformation the Reformation made incredible impact on certain key areas but also had amazing blind spots and I'm not tonight trying to give an overall balanced picture of the Reformation which of course needs to be done many people simply lament the divisions others have pronounced the Reformation over and many have just concentrated on the internal gifts of Reformation the rediscovery of the gospel the restoration of the place of the Bible the Noori emphasis on laypeople and things like this but I want to focus on some of the so-called gifts of the Reformation to the wider cultural world there were powerful in shaping the West and one in particular if we had time I think you could itemize at least six as they put it major sees things beginning with C that all had an incredible impact on the modern world but looking at this country there are clearly three above all others calling and its immense influence on purpose and dynamism and entrepreneurialism possibly even the rise of capitalism and certainly a leading motif in the errand into the wilderness that was the Puritan sense of purpose in coming here the second C would be conscience the first references to religious freedom are in the early church Tertullian liked anteus who happened to be the tutor to the Emperor Constantine's son so probably behind the Edict of Milan but it was actually the Reformation and people like Thomas Howells and Roger Williams Isaac Backus and John Leland who picked up that sense of conscience and it is developed with a great deal of help from America into human rights but I want to focus on the third one which i believe is one of the secrets to understanding the rise of the United States but also not just looking in the past one of the keys to understanding what we need to see renewed and restored today and that's the third see the notion of covenant covenant because what many Americans don't realize covenant is the source of Constitution it isn't actually the social contract that came later covenant is the source of the Constitution and the US Constitution is in effect a nationalized somewhat secularized form of Jewish covenant with a bit of history in between so let me pick up this discussion all of the points I'd like to make you can expand on an far greater depth but it needs to give you some sense of this discussion first of all consider the place of covenantal ism in political theory anyone talking about politics immediately settles on the greek-roman classical way of understanding things you have different types of government monarchy the rule of one corrupted easily into tyranny aristocracy the rule of the few and the excellent easily corrupted into oligarchy and of course democracy the rule of the people easily corrupted into the rule of the mob and as the Greeks understood the wheel is always turning so it's not that you choose one and you have it forever life goes on time passes things change the wheel turns and between them they shift around in a certain way but about 50 years ago a Jewish scholar Daniel Eleazar argued that while that was an invariant way of understanding governments we should also look at what he discussed as the founding of societies and the nature of societies themselves and seen that way you have a different three some societies are organic they are linked by blood and kinship rather like a African tribe or a Scottish clan Organic societies obviously with modern mobility and various things fewer today than in the past the second and the most common type of societies are hierarchical linked by power and force and conquest such as a kingdom or an empire one can think of the Roman Empire and many many others but the third type of society both in its foundings and its character are the covenantal shaped by a common binding agreement to the people of which the three most famous are the Jews the Swiss going back to their articles the Confederacy in the 13th century and of course the United States We the People how do you covenant ilysm shape history well very obviously it is absolutely decisive in Jewish history if you think for a minute the Jews had a covenantal Society centuries before they had a monarchy and porton lis centuries after they lost the monarchy and the capital city and the land itself and priests and prophets it was covenant ilysm which held them together and if you go back into Jewish history and look at the extraordinary disasters of the year 80 70 under the roman emperor Titus and then ad 133 under Hadrian the rabbi's even suggested with more than a million Jews murdered then the Jews should stop having sexual intercourse and the family of Abraham should die out other rabbis of course disagreed and what kept them together was the Torah and at the heart of the Torah the covenant the world that they known had gone but the word that was decisive in their lives remained as they put it the Torah and the covenant they carried but he carried them and heinrich heine the great german poet said the torah was the portable homeland of the Jewish people and however terribly they were persecuted and we have followers of Jesus have to say with sorrow it was often by us and to whatever lands they were scattered it was the Covenant in the Torah which held them together and the survival of the Jews is one of the miracles of history and at the heart of it is that notion of covenant the second great period is the period of the Reformation you think how Calvin taught covenant swingley taught covenant even more John Knox expanded on covenant and they became in Scotland the Covenant errs and the Scottish word for covenant is actually quicker more which gave rise to the later word Whig people have believed in freedom Oliver Cromwell describes the Covenant and Exodus as the only direct parallel that he was pursuing in the English revolution now of course any of you know history know that the English revolution failed the king came back and the historians refer to it as the lost cause but of course what was the lost cause in England became the winning cause in new england and william bradford his Mayflower Compact was a covenant John Winthrop on the Arbella preached a sermon that was a covenant and you can see in the history of New England covenant ilysm was the heart of marriages the hard churches at the heart of townships and then of course at the heart of their states so the constitution of Massachusetts is the oldest written covenant in the world still existing and it shaped Massachusetts and of course with the help of John Adams he wrote it it later became the US Constitution in the 18th century now of course as we'll come to over a long way from there but what was it about covenant ilysm that was so powerful the word of course are the covenants in history the Hittites in the same region as the Hebrews they had their suzerainty treaties usually with a dominant king and a subservient king Alexander the Great had his Corinthian League which was something of a covenant those of us like I am from Ireland coming from Celtic backgrounds many of the Celtic societies were Earth's communities there were other covenants and of course even in the Bible itself there are other covenants the covenant with Noah after the flood and the covenant beginning in the middle of Genesis with Abraham as a family but the Covenant at Sinai is distinctive it's the first time that God is a partner in a particular way and it's a covenant with all the people now immediately you've got to think of Greece many Americans look back to Athens but if you think in Athens democracy and all that only 20% of the men could vote and certainly not the women and not the children and not the foreigners but in Israel the Covenant is with the men the women the children those alive and those yet to be born because there's an intergenerational project of God with all the people with no exceptions and of course the Sinai covenant unlike all the others is comprehensive in covering almost the whole of life so the hittite covenants for example are very narrow like often you want a legal contract to be you don't be tied down in too many places but the Jewish covenant covers all sorts of things from business and farming and all sorts of things but it wasn't those features that put his stamp on history it was three other things first if you read Exodus carefully it was a matter of freely chosen consent three times it says in the text the people say all of the Lord says we will do they sign on as Michael waltz or hava to follow Daniel Ellis out remarks it was a wholesale commitment everyone signing on that is the origin of the consent of the governed all that the Lord says we will do and as the rabbi's point out even when the master the universe offers a covenant is only ratified when everyone there signs on together freely chosen consent secondly it was a matter of a morally binding pledge many of the other covenants were as I said very narrow much more like a modern legal contract keep it narrow keep it specific you don't be tied down everywhere no no it's very comprehensive and that moral dimension is very powerful the Jews point out again the rabbi's make a lot of this that there are 613 commands in exodus and through the Torah but remarkably there is no Hebrew word for obey like say the Islamic word for submission the very word Islam submission there isn't one the closest is the word Shamar which has the idea of paying focused attention and acting accordingly but has built into it the idea not just a physical hearing but of hearing deliberating deciding and then signing on so it becomes obedience perhaps but it's a matter of a free persons fully committed obedience a morally binding pledge and the third thing perhaps most crucial of all a matter of reciprocal responsibilities of all for all in other words you have the three musketeers in a huge form all for one and one for all or as the Jews put it every Jew responsible for every Jew one rabbi said there wasn't one covenant there was 600,000 covenants and when he said that another rabbi immediately chimed in there wasn't 600,000 there were six hundred thousand times six hundred thousand worked that one out as each of them was making a covenant to the Lord and to each other every Jew responsible for every Jew and of course that's the context for the famous ethical principle you shall love your neighbor as yourself now if we read the Torah that is said once and has an incredible impact on history but 36 times it said that you should love care look after the stranger with the same responsibilities because you were strangers once and so on in other words again as the rabbi's put it simply the stranger unlike say the Greek who viewed the stranger as the barbarian different language they're not us and Aristotle says we should only care for quote people like us no knows as the Torah we care for the stranger to the stranger with this foreign language or different face or whatever it may not be in our image but the stranger is still in God's image and therefore that reciprocal responsibility of all for all applies now you can see immediately and I'm not buying the contrast at this point think of democracy democracy has zero social content zero social content it just says who's supposed to be the ruler and even that is called into question under modern conditions but zero social content whereas the heart of covenantal republicanism is a view of public life of responsible relationships relationships precede regimes Society precedes a state its families schools neighborhoods communities these are the critical things and if they're living well then you have a healthy society and a vibrant nation and you get it that way around not the other what are some of the strengths and weaknesses of covenantal ISM well every system think of the Greeks again monarchy democracy aristocracy they all have strengths they all have weaknesses that's why the wheel turns and the Bible of course is very very realistic there's no photoshopping in the Bible you read most of the great classics like Homer and you have heroes who are airbrushed heroes who are photoshopped never in the Torah an incredible realism sibling rivalries murders all sorts of things but what are the strengths and weaknesses of covenantal ISM as a way of founding and then running a society and you can see them in the scripture first and you can see these apply to us today if you think of the applications we're not applying it first the strength of it and we can see this in history it is covenantal those whom which links faith and freedom now I say that as an Englishman they'd be in your wonderful country and I'm aware in many many discussions on Capitol Hill around the universities there are words like the F words faith freedom family they just roll off the tongue at certain times particularly in the fourth of July and you think they've lived together forever they haven't generally you remember reading Tocqueville at school or university Tocqueville comes as a Frenchman from Catholic France that had just experienced the French Revolution and you remember in his introduction democracy in America he says in Europe and for most of history those who loved religion fought Liberty and those who loved Liberty for religion what's he referring to for 1,500 years since the Emperor Theodosius you'd had various branches of state churches no was the church in Europe was not covenantal it was her article as historians put it the church when it predominated copied Greek ideas and Roman institutions somewhat uncritically so the papacy in the Caesars have a lot in common and the church in Europe in various branches was heroical not covenantal now the significance of that is simple when hierarchical societies which are founded on power and conquest when they are corrupted they become oppressive now you think of them greatest saying on power in english-speaking history all power tends to corrupt absolute power corrupts absolutely and we know that was said by a Catholic layman commenting on his own church actually he opposed papal infallibility for that very reason and he made the famous comment they came into the Enclave as shepherds and went out as sheep and he didn't like what was happening because he saw that when power is corrupted it not only oppresses the weak that's the obvious problem of power it corrupts the powerful and that's the far more subtle and dangerous thing so the church had not been covenantal and it was the Reformation bringing together faith and freedom through the notion of covenant that for the first time in European history in Western history made faith and freedom one and Tocqueville says in Europe they're fighting each other and I come to this country and the first thing you see is the spirit of religion and the spirit of Liberty go hand in hand never take that for granted it's rare and it's an achievement and it came directly from covenant ilysm you have the same thing in Edmund Burke a great Irish I returned statesman Burke defended the American colonies totally in the House of Commons and he said in effect you MPs should not have been surprised by what you're seeing in America why these people who went to America are as he put it the Protestants of Protestantism or as he said later they were the dissenters of dissent they love freedom and they brought together faith and freedom in this distinctive way the contrast of course was with France I often quote the remark of Diderot the encyclopedias which is picked up by the Jacobin the radicals in the streets we will never be free until the last King is strangled with the guts of the last priest a little gory but you get the point church and state were one thrown on altar were in collusion they were both powerful both corrupt and both oppressive the revolution did what throw off both and the French system is called lay ect the strictest European separation of church and state because there's against the corruptions of oppressive state churches it's not my principle point tonight but one of the ironic consequences of both the Catholic influence and the Protestant influence in Europe is to produce the most secular societies in the world but the Catholic influence have been such was the corruption and depression for people supremely in the French Revolution but elsewhere to say we have no desire for God militant anti-clericalism Protestantism was somewhat different but equally deadly they produce modern capitalism prosperity in such an extraordinary way that people say we have no need for God science capitalism the market and all these things we have no need for God and ironically both the Catholic consequence and the Protestant consequence end up roughly the same in Europe with an incredibly secular continent at the present time but that's the great gift of the Reformation bringing together faith and freedom what's its great weakness the Bible is clear about that a covenant is a matter I said of a binding a solemn binding agreement but here's the problem God keeps his word humans don't nietzsche discusses if you read his genealogy of morals we are the animal entitled to make promises he says but we don't and you can see a discussion down through history as well as in the bible itself so it's not long after Exodus that you read Judges where there's no king in Israel and everyone's doing what was right in their own eyes and clearly it all fallen apart humans don't keep promises well the law does we don't now there's a lot of discussion of that Machiavelli for instance believe that solidly and if you've read the prince he says the prince doesn't need to keep a promise whatever he said yesterday is totally unbinding and what he does today because today's imperative is all that matters so promise keeping is irrelevant and you see people like David Hume John Locke and others and Joe may bring this up to discussing that in their turn but you can see the central problem humans don't keep promises well now that's incredibly important today think of all the discussion of the breakdown of trust in American institutions or the breakdown of trust in business and so on it's by promise keeping and here nature is quite clear about this it's by promise keeping that we build trust and I don't just mean marriage contracts are in covenants although that's the one of the biggest I mean simple things I'll see you tomorrow for lunch I'll see you at 9:00 and I turn up 11:00 every day we're stating intentions were in effect making promises to people and when we follow through on them and keep our word we become predictable we become trustworthy and we build the social capital of trust but you can see today people don't keep their word the word is no longer their bond and Trust in all sorts of areas supremely marriage and in public service has breaking down even in this country and Trust is in deep disrespect the third thing you see is the great gift is faith and freedom the great weakness is we don't keep our word the great requirement or a command is that covenants have to be passed on from generation to generation with a living tradition as the rabbi's point out what does Moses speak about in the Passover hundreds of years of slavery and tonight they're going free does he talk about freedom nope they're about to go to the promised land of milk and honey does he talk about that great hope no does he talk about the dangers of the howling wilderness no what does Moses talk about children and of course at the heart of the Seder the youngest child why is this night different from all other nights and you can see as the rabbis point out schooling is far more important to a free society than an army transmission is the key transmission is essential and you can have all the powerful things in the world and lack transmission and freedom will simply not survive and both faith and freedom require transmission now of course we're in America in 2017 is all that just a matter of history one of the things we have to face very bluntly is that in key American circles there's been a decisive repudiation of the founders and this understanding of the founding you could deal with this in another whole section I would just refer to certain things backwards because it's the first one I think that's the most important you can think of the progressives from Woodrow Wilson to Barack Obama the founders were great people but men of their times and we're in different times Dean Acheson the Challenger being an American Statesman he said after World War Two was to lead a nuclear power that was saddled with a constitution of an 18th century farmers republic and the progressives by and large a disparaging of the founding then of course you've got schools like charles beard and Parrington who say ah today with a quasi Marxist view we can see through what they were saying they had an agenda these Virginia tidal plantation owners and so on but neither of those two are the fundamental reason the founders of rejected and that is the evils and hypocrisy of slavery and as historians point out sadly the Constitution for all its greatness was a Faustian bargain there were many who disagreed with slavery there was some like John Samuel Hopkins who spoke out robustly but though many who kept silent why they needed the southern states to sign on and silence was their compromise and so there was both an evil and a hypocrisy at the very heart of the American experiment in contradiction to the Declaration and then of course while tackled by Lincoln in the Civil War at great cost was still unaddressed and tackled by the Civil Rights until finally it was launched open by Martin Luther King and others now of course Martin Luther King tackled it both within a Christian framework and with an appreciation of the Declaration so the declaration gave a promissory note which wasn't cashed in and now was the time to cash it in but of course in the context of the 60s with the anti-vietnam war movement the rise of feminism you had people who looked at those same evils and those hypocrisy zarnow pronounced that America was irredeemably chronically racist and militarist and all sorts of things and you can see that around 1967 or 68 there was in effect a fateful lurch left among many and an increasing number of the intelligentsia which is surely why today the predominant mentality on most campuses among many journalists and certainly among many in the world of entertainment reflects that same repudiation of the founders which Shelby Steele has called the liberal shame about the founding and so on what does this mean today well if we look at the history of covenantal ISM you can see that we need first leadership again in the game when the Jews and others departed from the covenant they were called back by great leaders and that of course is what Lincoln tried to do and you can see when he's elected president he comes to Washington through Philadelphia and makes a great speech in Independence Hall and says in effect all my ideas come from the two documents from this building and he finishes quoting Psalm 137 may my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth if I am false to the ideals that have come from this building so he comes to Washington in the terrible challenges of the time before the Civil War and he tackles them in the light of what he knew of the American Founding we need a leader like that today I've had the privilege of living in the city for the last eight years I can count on two thumbs let alone less than one hand the number of leaders I've heard who really bring in history with the understanding of a Lincoln today I grew up under Winston Churchill almost all his speeches were seasoned with a perspective of history but we need leader today who can really address the present problems in the light of what he or she believes for the better angels of the American experiment one of the crying needs of America secondly there needs to be a profound clarification of freedom and the American experiment in that fateful lurch left words you can see that it's actually many of the ideas that come from not 1776 but 1789 ideas from the Enlightenment and the French Revolution mediated through Nietzsche mediated through antonioni Gramsci and his idea of the long march through the institution's mediated through makuu's aha but ma cuza in the sixties and mediated through people in the postmodernist camp like Michel Foucault and his ideas there's no truth everything is power and you can see that many of the leading ideas in America today are alien to the American Revolution and they are the descendants and the heirs of the French Revolution which means that while many Americans talk of freedom actually they're talking about very very different views of freedom but the third thing that America quite clearly needs today is transmission without transmission there's no passing arm of the values but without transmission there's no identity without transmission there's no binding unity so the old American motto a pluribus unum after the 1960s with all the stress on multiculturalism diversity it's all pluribus there's no Union in the 19th century you could ask a group of schoolchildren what were the Uniting first principles that form the UNAM and people could give you maybe ten ivar students today I've asked a group of CEOs today sometimes they can't get beyond one or two because the simple fact is that in many parts of this country they've gone the UNAM is fraying and everything now pluribus which is why Sam Huntington used to say immigration puts more of a stamp on America than the Revolution because we've lost that sense of the UNAM being passed down and you can see somewhat towards the end of the sixties civic education disappeared from the public schools and is still absent today let me draw this to her close passed it over to Joe some simple points as I finish first while there's a lot of talk even in the last fortnight in Washington of democracy and the need for the renew of democratic values a lot of it I would say it's windy platitudes the issue in America is actually Republican covenant ilysm constitutionalism and all that it means in depth it's not actually democracy secondly the issue with Republican governmental ISM constitutionalism is very simple should it be restored including a remedying of some of the blind spots in the beginning or is it about to be replaced and ideas that come from the French Revolution were the heirs and allies since then are going to replace that making America a very different place thirdly the deepest issues and I can say this the Trinity forum I wouldn't argue this in some of the other places the deepest issues are pre political Daniel Eleazar the great scholar who put this idea of covenantal ism on the map and it's been followed by Michael Walzer rabbi sacks and many many others Daniela's are said covenantal ism came from the middle east and he came from a culture of Oasis he said if you look at a Middle Eastern Oasis none of them are ever larger or more luxuriant then one thing makes them the wellspring at their core and that of course is the secret of covenant ilysm it at the end of the day is not legal it is not political at the end of the day it is finally rooted in faith and people who know why the whole thing matters Abraham Lincoln came here in the dark days before the Civil War and he called as you know well at Gettysburg for a new birth of freedom we are living in working days America may be suffering the most severe crisis since just before the Civil War what America needs today is a new new birth of freedom and I suggest you that exploring in depth what covenant ilysm means in the past and can mean again today is one of the indispensable keys to resolving this crisis thank you [Music] [Applause] well thank you eyes for that as always challenging stimulating provocative talk and of course as always delivered with that beautiful resonant British voice the British accent now you're gonna get Laconte and the Brooklyn accent it's what a lower the expectations here a little bit 20-plus years ago when I first came to Washington younger man then and I had the opportunity to intern at the trainee forum with oz Guinness I jumped at the chance and I've been learning from us ever since thank you dear brother it's such a joy to be with you Thank You Sheree for this event thank you all for coming can you hear me back there in the bleacher seats all right yeah all right guys great I want to try to in some ways really supplement a little bit some of the things that I says and tease it out just a bit I will be mercifully brief well Oz has drawn our attention to this powerful very very powerful idea that's very biblical idea this concept of a covenant or relationship between God and His people and I absolutely agree that the Protestant emphasis on this concept has contributed mightily to the rise of constitutionalism in the West especially here in the United States as mentioned in Massachusetts there the preamble to the Massachusetts Constitution refers to that document as a covenant and a solemn compact and one of the key points there I think is that all state officials think about all state officials had to swear an oath to their constitution and to the Commonwealth and they did so publicly before the entire legislative body you had to publicly commit yourself before God to the common good not a bad idea for us here in Washington right not a bad idea well America's Protestant ministers in the founding era I think they drew at least two major political lessons from the Hebrew Bible and that central story of the Jews and their covenant relationship with God at least - and we find these lessons articulated in the various sermons and the founding era all over the place a guy named Samuel Langdon pretty representative Minister he was a graduate from Harvard in 1740 with the class of Samuel Adams not a bad class to be in Sam Adams he was a Congregational minister he was chaplain to the New Hampshire regimen in the Revolutionary War he was also a delegate to New Hampshire the state convention there this guy Samuel Langdon saw a mover and a shaker and his sermons I think represent kind of the revolutionary mind of his generation of ministers and Patriots well what are they doing those sermons they compare their struggle of course against British tyranny to Israel's struggle against Egypt like the twelve tribes of Israel Langdon said the thirteen states of the Union were saved from quote the vengeance of a powerful irritated nation I love that phrase a powerful irritated nation well America was a new Israel as they put it with George Washington as their Moses the American story is a story of a people escaping captivity and gaining their freedom that's one of the applications the metaphors that these men these ministers use very popular the second lesson was more complex though and Oz has unpacked it a bit for us just as God had given the Israelites a constitution by which they could govern themselves with justice so to god through the course of his Providence Langdon says have given you an excellent constitution of government founded on the most rational equitable and liberal principles rational equitable and liberal principles put another way reason justice and freedom listen to Langdon we cannot but acknowledge that God has graciously patronized our cause and taken us under his special care as he did his ancient covenant people this connection here well this is a commonly held view among the Protestant clergy they contribute mightily to the American Founding but there's a caution here oz mentioned one of them one of the the challenges of covenant ilysm it's not only that people don't keep their promises the coven ental view though quite often certainly historically in the 17th century into the 18th century and therefore in the reformed tradition didn't necessarily or naturally support one of the pillars of American constitutionalism the Protestant commitment to religious freedom not always at least not early on the ethical demands of the covenant Allah communicates in were people outside of the Covenant for differences of opinion for pluralism and here's where I think Martin Luther's unique contribution is vital I'm gonna give two chairs here for Luther today just a few words for Luther in contrast to John Calvin here this may ruffle some feathers but I think the quote from Ronald Reagan facts are stubborn things in contrast to John Calvin and many not all but certainly many in the reformed tradition Luther rejects the notion of a Christian Commonwealth he rejects the notion of a Christian common law he does not believe that a political society could or should operate as a coven ental community like ancient Israel let me just say that again Luther doesn't think that a political society can operate as a coven ental community like ancient Israel let me quote you Luther here in his work on secular Authority in 1523 he says this but first take heed and fill the world with real questions before ruling it in a Christian and evangelical manner this you will never accomplish he says for the world and the masses are and always will be unchristian although they are all baptized and are nominally Christian and then he goes on therefore it's out of the question that there should be a common Christian government over the whole world nay even over one land or company of people since the wicked always outnumber the good it is hard to overstate how radical a thing that was to say in the 1520's in Catholic Europe now based on Luther's view of the reality of human societies Luther articulates a theory of religious liberty listen to Luther every man is responsible for his own faith and he must see to it for himself that he believes rightly as little as another can go to hell or heaven for me so little can he believe or disbelieve for me for faith is a free work to which no one can be forced now here's the challenge friends as the Reformation gets off the ground Calvin and his followers in the reformed tradition many of them at least will it take a different line Calvin's covenant 'el theology sought to establish something like something like a Protestant version of Christendom at Geneva Calvin rejects the principles of religious freedom and religious pluralism we saw this in his debates with Sebastian Costello / Calvin's role in the execution of Sir Vettes the burning death of Sir Vettes Calvin is accused by some of his Protestant critics of setting up a pope is Geneva in his political community so the American founders they're looking in various sources for their constitutional order various sources and certainly constitutional theology with its emphasis on a sacred social compact as oz has said was a was an extremely important stream of thinking that made up the mighty river of American constitutionalism but I think it had to be balanced and it had to be restrained by other streams of thought let me just list them off other streams coming together uniquely at the American Founding one of course was the concept of natural rights natural rights grounded natural law second the political theory of republicanism limited government separation of powers republicanism third the principle of government by consent of the governed fourth the Enlightenment the Enlightenment especially the Scottish enlightenment with its emphasis on virtue and finally as Oz has written about so brilliantly over the years the concept of religious freedom religious freedom whose great champions in the 17th century came from all over the place theologically Protestant Christianity broadly understood influenced in a vital way all of these political and philosophical ideas which went into the American Founding just take two thinkers now who contributed profoundly to the American Revolution and its constitutional order just to John Locke and James Madison knows got you guys who know me new are gonna drag Locke into this talk somehow so we'll give a lock his day in the 17th century it is John Locke the Protestant a member of the Anglican Church in his Locke who makes a natural rights argument for the social contract government by consent of the governed in the second treatise listen to Locke for men being all all of the workmanship of one omnipotent and infinitely wise maker all the servants of one sovereign master sent into the world by his order and about his business they are his property meaning get your hands off right and what's this conclusion men being by nature all free and equal and independent no one can be put out of this estate and subjected to the political power of another without his own consent it's not a robustly coven ental view from Locke I don't think he is a favorite political philosopher though among the American founders one of their favors 18th century of course it's Madison Madison the mind behind the 1st amendment an architect of the Constitution who drew again from a variety of religious and philosophical sources Madison had a sober view of human nature he was influenced by the Reverend John Witherspoon of course at Princeton Presbyterian reformed thinker but Madison was also extremely hopeful about the possibilities of self-government he championed the concept of religious freedom not so much based on covenantal theology I don't think but on his reading of history his understanding of natural rights and of course he had a special admiration Madison did for Martin Luther in a letter to FL Schaeffer dated 1821 Madison explained that the American model of religious liberty quote illustrates the excellence of a system which by a do distinction to which the genius and courage of Luther led the way between what is due to Caesar and what is due to God three centuries three centuries after Luther and he's getting a shout out from Madison not bad they're shouting down Laconte now there won't be shouting out Lakhani later so having said this we can certainly use a revival of the of the coven ental spirit let me just echo that here with my brother Oz a revival in many respects of the coven ental spirit public officials who take their political oaths seriously wouldn't that be nice political leaders today seem to have adopted that famous maxim from Groucho Marx here my principles if you don't like them I have others welcome to Washington people we have got to reaffirm in public in private life the Protestant concepts of freedom and virtue we need to recover a belief in our natural rights and our civic obligations and this brings us back to that renegade monk that renegade monk 500 years ago who said he was battling quote a Leviathan of religious tyranny a Leviathan that's about a hundred years before Hobbes there's a reason that Martin Luther King senior adopted the name of the father of the Reformation for himself and gave it to his son there's a reason friends listen to the Reverend Martin Luther King jr. in his letter from Birmingham jail we will reach the goal of freedom in Birmingham and all over the nation because the goal of America is freedom the goal of America is freedom abused and scorned though we may be our destiny is tied up with America's destiny we will win our freedom because the sacred heritage of our nation and the eternal will of God are embodied in our echoing demands well the demands for freedom and for justice these deep longings in the human heart they cannot be fully met by any political system can they as Luther wrote and his explosive tract the freedom of a Christian 15-20 a publishing phenomenon that book that little book here's what he said let us then consider it certain and firmly established that the soul can do without anything except the Word of God and that where the where the word of god is missing there is no help at all for the soul well maybe just maybe I'm not sure but maybe those words apply as well to the soul of a nation when America remembers its sacred heritage the cause of justice is strengthened here and around the world when the word of God is preached and the soul finds its Worth the author of freedom is on the move thanks for listening [Music] [Applause] so this brings us to the most dynamic part of our evening conversation which is the conversation part this is where we get to hear from you those of you who have been to tourney forum events before know that we have three guidelines for all questions one please keep your questions brief keep them civil and please keep all questions in the form of a question so we will if you could wait till the microphone to get to you we have two people with microphones in the back just raise your hand to be called on so that people who are watching by livestream or video can I can catch your question and we'll take lots of questions and hopefully short answers to get through a lot so right there Lindsey you started with monarchy Yas and that's where I'm going I think the longest reigning monarch hails from your part of the world and while this has nothing to do with democracy you use the word conscience I think that Queen Elizabeth has demonstrated enormous integrity as a leader I ask you what might we in democracy learn from her legacy and so on they she is Republican dutiful other questions great question right here your your characterization of mentalism sounds very actually Zwingli developed it far more than Calvin and NOC stood in his way and Cromwell in the English revolution did in their own way so this is not straight Calvinism although if you read the rabba is they say that Calvinism is actually the closest Christian movement to Judaism which I found very interesting but the one thing I'd say Joe I would never pit freedom against covenantal ISM because the Exodus is liberation covenantal ISM is the framework in other words liberation is only the first step in Liberty he got an ad to live free that's where cover mentalism comes in so it's not pitted against freedom although at times in history and certainly in Calvin's Geneva it was so it's much wider than Calvin historians say that covenantal ISM flourishes in for example the settled European nations France Germany and so on it didn't appeal they had strict structures and so on it was in Switzerland or Holland which was on the frontiers and so on where you had very fluid conditions that Cal mentalism was so powerful and I think today if you look at the modern world as whole we're swinging between radical excessive individualism leading to chaos at times and in the other hand the counter swing towards control to stop the anarchy and continental ISM has a wonderful blend of both stress on the individual and on the corporate but freedom because is at the heart of exodus and as the jews say that a free guard calls a free people to worship him freely let my people go that they may worship me so i may put it badly but i never split freedom and cover mentalism let me just respond ours maybe I ask you a question do you think that the reformed covenantal views that were there in Europe began to be developed in Europe coming out of the Reformation do they take on a much broader though application in the in this new world and and what does the kind of innate pluralism the rezident pluralism of the United States have to do it it seems to me they broaden their view of who now can be part of this covenant tool community and how they're going to treat the the outside of the class absolutely and religious freedom is key because religious freedom makes pluralism more likely just as pluralism makes religious freedom more necessary the more differences you have the more they have to be free so we owe a lot actually all the great ones religious freedom were non conformists right so they were against the Church of England which was the throwback to the European state churches Thank You Jo and thank you Oz so as I really appreciate your comments toward EEP lorvis unum and your wonderful underlining of that Latin phrase and the own impart a lot of us in different organizations that we work at everyday for profit and not-for-profit have an experience where we come together from time to time and look at our core values we try to define those sometimes we chisel them into stone we make them something that when we on board new employees we make sure they understand our core values I'm curious what you both think are America's core values if you were to identify three to five values that unum can align around and Joe since you were born in this country I'd love to hear a few from you and then oz I'd love to hear you supplement or react because you've got to know Americans better than we know ourselves thank you thank you for that question now I was born here my father was born in southern Italy and they left or in the fascist regime in the 1930s and one of the things that my grandfather communicated to my father who communicated to me that this they were so excited about being here in the United States is that you just say whatever you want it you could just say whatever you want it to the political regime and not be arrested in the middle of the night they like that growing up in Brooklyn so I put freedom of speech although we obviously having our debates right now what that means freedom of speech kind of near near the top of the list obviously I've learned so much from Oz on this regard and I think Oz is probably the first thinker to really introduce me to the central importance of freedom of conscience the rights of religious liberty how central that is to the other freedoms so I'm gonna let Oz expand on that but certainly freedom of speech freedom of conscience the right to assemble the right to get together and do things this is why Tocqueville is such an important guide for us now he is so struck so powerfully struck by that American penchant for getting together to do things to solve problems without the strong arm of the state keeping you from doing that that's just a unique almost uniquely American trait yeah don't ask an Englishman that question but obviously the three basic political freedom of conscience freedom of speech freedom of assembly as joe said but things like the rule of law the separation of church and state equal opportunity actually separation of the separation of powers goes back to come mentalism to the jews has they put it three crowns the king the prophet and the priest and they're all different there isn't just one and at the heart of that is the notion of the fear of the abuse of power now you compare that say with the Enlightenment Rousseau man is born free but every was in Chains just remove the freedom or in the sexual revolution remove the repressions and will be as free as we can be you know for the framers that would be nonsense so that that realistic anthropology of human nature that really through Witherspoon through Madison the separation of powers you you could go down to ten or twelve things if we had time but the point is those those are critical they should be uniting all Americans and as I say what happened was at the end of the 19th century you know people I'm Irish in background Joe's Italian people came from Ireland and Italy both Catholics but they were Americanized in the public schools through the melting pot well the melting pot undoubtedly around the turn of the century there were melting pot pageants and all that stuff and in 1905 you had Horace Kallen with his critique of the Melting Pot The Melting Pot in American democracy and the rise of multiculturalism ethnicity is unmelted well you can't change your grandfather and since then you can see this steady stress now leading to tribalism identity politics and all that stuff the group matters more than the individual and that's incredibly faithful where we are today even attorney Martin Luther King on his head is it a matter of the Couric content of our character no we're all put in age groups or sexual groups or racial groups or whatever today America has gone crazy over multiculturalism following Horace Kallen and some of those things of the American unum have completely been lost I think that's very fateful Joe talked to his Brooklyn accent I once talked to her on the platform a Tony Campolo and he said you know this this guy from England he talks for 20 minutes before you realize he's not saying anything he said with my Philadelphia accent I've got to speak for 20 minutes before you realize I am saying something well bull swap meets you I will interject another accent thank you for this it occurs to me that there are multiple younam's in our culture in our political landscape today and many of these embrace words that many that we would all that we hold in common resist and dissent are two that come to me how can you help us navigate the language of the the left to dissent to resist which are words that evoke noble virtues in all of us at times but whose intent is not particularly noble if I understand the question now about how do we talk about dissent maybe could I just kind of get you just unpack that or say that another way about our our obligation to be engaged in the census when I yes thank you when we we the the the the political left wants to dissent and resist trumpism the Republican Party I like the idea we've talked about resistance we've talked about dissent we're here to celebrate but how has this language become now a source of contention and a source of divisive 'no sand not a unifying principle great question I'll have a quick a quick response and I'll turn over to us it does seem to me that a little kind of maybe moral consistency is an order I think it's fine to dissent to critique the political of authorities the government policies and all but to not do that in a principled way to not call your own side out honestly with integrity as you're also criticizing the friends on the other side of the aisle to not do that it exposes the hypocrisy and then the whole thing just looks like a game and I think that's a huge problem for us in both parties I'll turn over those if you go back in democracy yours have the idea of a loyal opposition and the idea of resistance resistance obviously goes back to the underground resistance against the Nazis and it was chosen quite deliberately and I think it's a deadly degeneration of genuine democratic opposition and the fact is you got a number of movements you've got multiculturalism you've got political correctness you've got social constructionism and you've got some of the implications of the sexual revolution and all of those if you go back to their roots come more from the French Revolution than they come from the American Revolution and they have completely different views of freedom so you take the use of the word resistance or whatever the whole political correct notion that to master language is to control reality that is extremely deadly and anyone who's read George Orwell that is the heart of the totalitarian impulse and you can see whiffs of it all over the left today so I wouldn't praise those things whatever I would heroes I have who fought the Nazis but no American democratic opposition should view its opposition in those and that's quite deliberately chosen the use of language to control political reality which is deadly to freedom now real dissent real conscientious objection is incredibly important that's where you don't have can you have a differing opinion today you can't even get reviewed in certain magazines you can't get hearing on certain campuses so I don't think those are multiple values I think some of those are a very profound degeneration of those who should love freedom well take two more quick questions right here in the front great talks both of you thank you so as I feel like mr. Laconte Eckerd an indictment of this covenantal ism from Martin Luther that the majority people always be wicked and even if you look at the covenant ilysm that you cited going back to judges going back to Old Testament covenants they quickly fell apart because they even though there was a will and a vision for that covenant the majority were unable to hold it now it seems like in the founding of the u.s. there was a you know you had that covenant ilysm that did hold but ultimately if what you're speaking to is is covenant ilysm is a as a solution for us to get to the society that we want what's the what made it work in the past and what do we need in order to to feel like we can have a covenant of covenantal ism that's sustainable the Jewish government had to be renewed had to be passed on say Moses to Joshua had to be renewed you think of figures like Josiah Hezekiah Ezra Nehemiah and so on but you're right the Bible is incredibly realistic about the you know the degeneracy of human nature and the fact so the American experiment can you create a free society that can sustain its freedom forever that's the daring of the American experiment this generation is about to show whether it's possible or not and I was asked yesterday if you had a leader of a Lincoln like stature who got up today and made such an appeal to America would it have sufficient resonance for enough Americans to turn around and listen I'm not sure it would really be an interesting question but short of that that's why I said the issue for America is restore and you can see that's possible or replace and by replace I mean you go one of the left liberal directions that has said to the French Revolution you'd have a different America a very different America very different conceptions of freedom all that Michelle was saying if you go down the French Revolution and its heirs you look at their anthropology it's utopian not realistic you can have 10 major points where the liberal left view unpack it is decisively different from the better angels of 1776 and America is approaching that watershed compliment as annette and hopeful hopeful note teaching here at the king's college the last seven or eight years impersonating a college professor is what i do there on campus i am hopeful because the students when they come they come from all various places spiritual places Geographic places and they're not necessary cynical but they're very skeptical about the american experiment part of the reason is they have no lived memory of america really functioning at a really healthy successful way internally and externally i have some of that live memory I lived with Reagan Revolution just kidding but there's truth to that I got to see the collapse of the Soviet Union and the and the really the triumphs least a partial triumph of these democratic ideals that America had been defending throughout the Cold War it was an amazing moment to live through my students don't have that live man but what we do at the Kings what I try to do in history in foreign policy is to reintroduce the students to that legacy and when we get to see that played out on the pages of history they realize yes men and women can make a real difference profoundly in their own country and even across the world because of the unique role and power of the United States but it does take leadership it takes leadership it takes a civic memory as Aza said I think I'm sure I've just quoted oz on this that you know history is remembering and that has got to be one of the most important disciplines of the human person to remember rightly which is what we'd love to do here at the Trinity forum but Joe in country I mean your king students are fabulous and I'm actually a person of hope but I was at by contrast at Berkeley for a week this spring and I had a fascinating three-hour discussion with a group in a bar late at night and one of the Christian girls said at the end of it the only hope for America burned the whole thing down and start again and she was not a radical she was not a radical I'm I was at Berkeley in the 60s I met Mario Savio people that they were radicals she was not a radical but as she and her friends they ran through everything from Plato right through the current political she said we're like looking at piñatas we know our professor could rip them all down none of them really work we're not cynics but there's no real hope and I've seen that in many many campuses I wish they were all like you're king students well my world a lot of the Mount [Laughter] escaped from Berkeley and housing Joe thanks so much for the talk tonight the one thing I didn't hear you talk about was the role of communication and particularly the printing press and as one of you talked a little bit about how effective Martin Luther's big idea would have been without it and if given the chance to add an extra C to your list would it be communication Thanks just a few words on that it's one of the great what-ifs of history isn't it it certainly is the printing press that comes together it's the rise of nation states that's coming together by this time the Catholic Church has it has its hands in everybody's pockets everybody knows the Catholic Church money so this growing resentment it's all coming together in the 1520's and of course Luther's message is so utterly decisive isn't it what's fascinating to me is you have his contemporary Erasmus who is a Catholic lifelong Catholic also severely critical of the moral life of the Catholic Church has access to the printing press to a lesser degree perhaps than Luther initially but he's one of the most famous men in all of Europe and yet his view cannot prevail at the end of the day Luther's does so there's a mystery there that I can't quite understand Luther himself said though when he was asked to explain his success he said as I sat and drank Wittenberg beer there's the answer people Wittenberg beer as I sat and drank Wittenberg beer with my good friend Philip the Word of God did everything I did nothing I think that qualifies as a mic drop [Music] [Applause] Thank You Oz and Joe and as we wrap up I'd like to ask you to turn your attention from the Grand Covenant to these small modest invitation on the seat of your chair which is to join the Trinity forum Society those of you who have been here before know that we aim to make possible discussions like this that are both intellectually rigorous and warmly hospitable that are a bit of counterculture to the trivialization polarization division and general nastiness that characterizes so much public discourse we aim to provide a spot where leaders can engage what matters most in the public square and in a context of faith in a way that reflects our faith and means as well as ends joining the training forum society is one way that you make that possible and so we hope that you will join the society this evening to sweeten that deal those of you who joined tonight the first five people who join tonight will get two free readings that we think expand upon some of the themes that both Joe and oz talked about which is excerpt from Alexis de Tocqueville is democracy in America as well as vaclav havel Zess a politics morality and civility which think we think real will do a lot to both expand on and deep and some of the discussions tonight so we hope you will avail yourself of that opportunity and as well as collect be one of the first five to collect those readings there's other benefits as well all the members of the Trinity forum Society receive our quarterly reading so I'll just say as in the sign many of the author's mentioned here tonight by our speakers whether is Martin Luther King jr. Alexis de Tocqueville Abraham Lincoln George Orwell and others you will find readings reflecting the best of their writings as well as discussion questions and and an introduction pulling it all together just outside in the front so we encourage you to check out our readings table on your way out as a special bonus for that there is also a free gift for each of you which is an expansion upon some of Oz's Commons tonight a reading by the taught the same title as our evening conversation tonight the formation is the Forgotten key to American freedom so we encourage you to do that if you'd like to share this event with others please do we will have photos on Facebook we will have video on our website the live streaming is wrapping up now and feel free to tweet about it as well or follow us on twitter at hashtag TTFN and we also hope that you will join us for future conversations in just a little over a week on November 8th at the National Press Club just a few blocks away we're delighted to invite Stanford neurosciences bill Newsome in a conversation on mind matter and our maker who will be in conversation with philosopher Tim O'Connor on the implications the spiritual implications of new year neuroscience discoveries and on December 4th also the Press Club will be welcoming philosopher James ka Smith speaking on his new book awaiting the king reforming public theology finally as we end it's always appropriate to end in things and there are many people to think to make tonight that have made tonight possible I like to again thank our sponsors but and James Smith our stalwart volunteers Ashley winners Amanda's Eisner Carrie Lucas and Hannah Wolfe photographer kateri in a price my fantastic colleagues who do so much behind the scenes to make these evenings seem seamless Colleen O'Malley Alisa Abraham Ashley white and crackerjack interns Rebecca noise Caleb Luke and Lois ow thank you again to Oz and Joel and Joe thank you to each of you for coming and good night

Channel: The Trinity Forum

Views: 4,953

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Keywords: reformation, faith, freedom, MartinLuther, America

Id: yY_nYnEL0u4

Length: 92min 10sec (5530 seconds)

Published: Thu Nov 02 2017