SAS Legend Tells The Truth: Simon Jefferies

[Music] I cannot explain how hard the jungle is physically if you imagine being at your absolute limit every single day you're in there basically for four weeks solid four weeks in the same clothes no washing everything looks the same it is so hot it's so hard to navigate in the jungle no one thinks it was a success Afghan was a massive failure why was it a massive failure Taliban took back control within a matter of months after years and years of spending billions how can you not say that that isn't a failure imagine every day for six months you are essentially going I might walk out and lose my limbs or get blown up like every day imagine the mental toll on that like I'm gonna walk out and I don't know if The Next Step I Take that's me gone [Music] Jeffers welcome to the show mate thanks for having me on yeah very much uh I'm intrigued about this one your journey and your path that you've been on so what I'm going to do I'm going to roll all the way back um where did you grow up and how did you get into the Special Forces I grew up in rural Worcestershire so small farm um my parents had a small dairy farm pretty normal upbringing definitely very much centered around the outdoor so spent basically my childhood out hunting fishing camping sport played a lot of rugby and then and I always and I cannot tell you exactly where it came from but from 11 years old maybe even younger I knew that all I wanted to do was join the military whether that's watching is probably a combination of growing up in the outdoors loving adventure and honestly probably watching too in the 80s action films like sneaking down watching Terminator Commando Rambo um so I knew that was my part that's all I ever wanted to do school college traveled lived in New Zealand lived in Canada um just like cleaning rooms doing outdoor stuff and then came back and joined the Marines in 2008 so went through basic training in 2008. how old how old were you 24 24. so it was a little bit older and was that a positive for you do you think being that age a little bit older rather than 1819 yeah I take my hat off to anyone that goes into the forces 16 17 18. I think because you're immersed straight away you know shock of capture into a completely different world whereas having a bit of experience life experience having done other things I would say definitely stood me in good stead going in a little bit older I think that was probably I think between 22 24 is almost an ideal age because you've got some life experience yeah but you're still young enough to take the battering on your body which gets harder the older you get and did you have to apply how does it work did you go in and apply so I want to get involved in this what did you have someone who said oh there's a I'll open a door for you or do you know what funny so you you just go through the application process I'd always said I was going to apply and go in as an officer and the very first thing that you have to do is a psychometric test in the careers office and I am really [ __ ] bad at maths and I completely I failed the master I came back and I failed the math section and in that moment it was almost when you've been driving to something for years and years and they're like you failed the math section you can either wait six months and apply again or you can just join as a recruit as a bod I was like I'll just join yeah and honestly that chained that sort of Crossroads once I've been in and the experience that I've had that's the best thing that ever happened to me and I'm sure you know you don't know the difference officers are going and do it have great experiences but to me from what I saw you get a lot more opportunities or different jobs open up to you being just a body I guess just a soldier so I didn't know that so basically you could go in and apply and go straight for an officer if you pass some exams so you go so yeah there's two parts officers generally you can become once you so say you can go through the military get to a certain Rank and then do late entry it's called Ellie late entry officer but generally officers will go officers will join as officers and soldiers will join as soldiers and it's just a different it's still you know arduous training they just have the extra leadership or officer component pros and cons with it there's more pay up front the probably con is for a lot of officers maybe your first couple of years you get to do boots on the ground stuff but then you're transitioning more to planning more desk based type of roles unless you're very good at managing your career and that just never interested so when you look back do you think that was a good move for you going straight in at the bottom yeah absolutely okay and tell me your sort of day to day when you went in there were they like screaming [ __ ] I need to deal certain stuff and training hard what was it was it was there bullying in there back then no to I'd say when I went in 2008 I would I would almost say the it was a good mix at that point yeah stories from back in the 80s I think it was harsh and there probably was more of that bullying culture if you go on the stories that you're told I think now and again this is anecdotal but speaking to people on training teams it's gone too far the other way it's gone a bit too soft in what they're restricted on doing I think when I was there seemed like a pretty good balance like it was [ __ ] hard but it didn't I never witnessed bullying like there's no bullying it and he didn't need it like it was hard enough if you weren't good enough or suitable you weren't going to make it through and it is less about the shouting and it's less about the physical when people think about the military what they think is the hard physical things so you know Commando training the Commando tests at the end the 30 miler or the bottom field thrashings yes they are hard but what breaks most people is if you imagine for eight months when you go into lipstone Royal Marine recruit training for eight months every single day you're just waiting to get thrashed with something like you you're just at their kind of Mercy the whole time and things like end of the day you're already knackered from whatever you've been doing someone's messed up they get the entire troop so 30 guys to empty everything in their lockers over the balcony so you've got 30 guys multiple all of their kit and they just cover it in mud and water mix it all up that's like right see in the morning 5am for a full inspection and then you spend all night what you're basically a laundromat you're washing ironing folding that's what breaks people it's 3am polishing boot pipes in the toilets to make them shiny like that's the [ __ ] that breaks people it's not the physical stuff it's getting people tired doing boring tasks get them wet and cold that is what breaks people did you know before you went in there that you were mentally tough what did you have to find out I think it's a mental toughness is basically your ability to cope with discomfort and so people talk about mental toughness and we associate it with certain things so again you talk about the military people assume that if you've been in the military or mentally tough which is true in that narrow Spectrum so example is and you could apply this to business Sports whatever it is you are very good in on operations on jobs within that role the rest of life is falling apart crap relationships things are going wrong they haven't got that mental toughness across all aspects and mental toughness could be having difficult conversations with your wife or partner to get through a tough batch instead of shying away from that so it comes in all of that yeah and I think true mental toughness is is less about the reason I got through that course the reason I got through Special Forces is because it meant so much to me I had a deep desire to get through it and it aligned with who I was as a person like I saw myself as a soldier and so when you have that like you'd have seen it in the bit you know you're very successful as a business person you will have been through some [ __ ] hard times to do that and the only reason you can get through that and say that you're mentally tough an aspect is because you believed in it you believed in yourself and you believed in what you're doing and that's the only way you get through it so it's you that mental toughness comes when you are following something that you really believe in and you're passionate about because then you can withstand that hardship so I think that's I think to a degree in physical sense because I'd already you know playing rugby things like that set you up well for culture you can cultivate all of these skills but to an to an extent so much of it comes from that internal like what are you willing to do to get to where you want to be in whatever it is yeah just rolling back there you said you were trainee you went into the Royal Marines you were training for eight months the eight months was to get into what just to Royal Marines just okay so Royal Marines Commando same as parachute regiment that's the longest basic training in the world so you were you you went in as a royal Marine yeah and you wanted to become a royal Marine Commando no you say you go it so Royal Marines Commando is it's the same thing like basically it's split into two phases the basic training is 15 weeks that's essentially the Royal Marines training and then they I think this is the way it is the Commando training is the last portion the Commando tests but anyone who goes to that's essentially what you become and then after that you apply for Special Forces if that's a route that you want to go down okay so the special forces of the creme de La Creme yes yeah and did you how long were you in the Royal Marines before you you thought you know what I want to push boundaries again I want to go to the Champions League of of of this and hit their special forces I did a year as a general marine and then I did a selection to be I always wanted to apply and try Special Forces I didn't feel like I had enough experience at that point so I did a year as a general Marine and then I did a selection for Special Forces Communicator so you're still a raw Marine but you go through a six-month selection to then work with special forces so you're attached to a special forces Squadron providing like the signal tactical signal signals basically so I did that so I went down to Paul after a year as a general Marine did two years as an sfc and then I did selection after that tell me about selection there is so many rumors about how tough selection is I want to I want to delve deep into this with selection for Special Forces it was SBS that you went that you that you got selected for tell me about that how tough that is to get in there yeah it's I mean it's the same now Special Forces SBS and SS it's been a joint selection for many years so it's the same course just at the end of it you just go to your respective units it comes back to the same as Roman's training it it is a very hard course and the only way that you get through it is that deep desire so it starts off with the hills phase in Brecken which everyone that's probably the most publicized part of it marching around heavy loads and again yes physically it is taxing you're carrying heavy weight and it is taxing on the body but maybe the hardest part of it it's like Groundhog Day for three weeks you are you basically wake up I did it in winter so it's dark you wake up 5 a.m go to the Cook House imagine like a greasy cooked breakfast you're trying to force down because you need the calories and then you drag yourself down to the parade Square where the vehicle the four ton trucks are sitting in the drizzling rain in the dark get on the trucks drive for an hour or two hours you're trying to doze get a bit of sleep on there you get out your name's called show me where you're on a map point it out like right off you go and then that's you on your own for eight hours trudging around the shittest terrain in what like marshy boggy tripping over rain when it's just [ __ ] on your own with your own thoughts in Wales in Wales and again that's what breaks a lot of people it's just that monotony because you will start to question you're like why am I doing this it's not like going to say a sports tournament where you know when athletes they think of the hard part is what if they're doing on that day yeah but it's not well it is but actually it's the three years in the closed doors with no crowd the monotonous day in day out training that's what the boredom the grind that's what people find hard and won't stick at and the only way you stick at it and get through it is I believe in this so much and I am going to pass this course and you've got to want to pass it for the sake of passing it itself if you're trying to do it for more cash for Prestige for the queue like any of those external factors you'll just quit because it's so [ __ ] when you're doing it you have to have such a deep desire it's an obsession you can't care about anything else all you can care about is passing that course that's how you do the Wales phase and that in itself is the most publicized but it's it's not selection all that is is a culling phase to get rid of people who aren't suitable to go to the Jungle phase and the jungle phase is selection like that is selection so give me an example how many people went into the Welsh phase we are mine those 222 something like that how many of that broke and buckled I think hey we took and it was quite a big amount we took 82 or 83 to the Jungle okay so rough yeah over half dropped out on that initial phase so they're 80 so when they dropped out did any of those boys look you know and go I failed or they broke me or how did they feel no so locking in luck does pay into it some people are injured and they're devastated by it but they'll come back again some people I think it's just a bit of an awakener maybe they didn't realize exactly what it was going to be and all it's a realization for some people and I've had these conversations for people they go on and they realize actually it's not that I don't want it enough like it's not they they think they do and then they go on it and they realize no but you actually nailed it a minute ago because if you're going there for an extra pound note to earn more money or you're doing it for Prestige to say I've I've got three they are the wrong factors you're not going to do it yeah it's like you on your you know business Journey if you have to be upset I'm a obsessed in business and when you're obsessed you make things work you have to make it work because you didn't you know you're not gonna you don't make a million overnight yeah and if you're if that's what you're there for if you're like I have to get those results you're not going to stick with you're not going to go through the dark times yeah you you need and it's the same with any goal if you're only obsessing at the end result and you're not engaged with the process or confined enjoyment with the process and here's the thing you know I'm talking about all this and saying it's hard and there's a lot of sacrifice I would say I enjoyed the process of try training for selection almost as much if not more than passing it yeah and it's a journey is the journey yeah yeah I love training for it and building up to it I didn't see it as a sacrifice because again that's what I cared about that's what I believed in and that testing myself and going through it is so much satisfaction in that that those are the that's how that's what gets you you need that if you want to achieve something whatever it is you have to find joy in the process otherwise what's the point it's [ __ ] miserable like I agree totally agree how old were you when you when when you went for this selection I was 26 I think 27 yeah 26. so when you passed did they actually say to you after three weeks in in Wales what you've passed now you're going to the Jungle no no so so basically Welsh phase culling it's just to get your plane ticket to the jungle and the jungle is selection so the jungle is six weeks two weeks kind of build up and then four weeks living in the trees doing it's basically soldiering that's what's really testing testing your soldering and at the end of that if if you can make it past the first week so in the first week so hot so humid they basically thrash you around to again cull more people and every day you're just going past guys on drips they're just part they're just gone they're just down there's just medical people like bringing them back around if you can get past that first week physically you can probably get to the end of the Jungle bar an injury and then once you're at the end you fly out you still don't know if you've passed you fly back to Hereford and then they bring you into a room and names get called out and I think it changes each time but the names that were called out on mine were the people that have failed and we had so on the initial selection 220 odd starting Wales and 17. past is that right so it went from 220 but down to 80. 80 went to the Jungle down to 17. yeah and then after that it's you don't really people don't tend to fail after that it's kind of continuation and other bits but if if you pass the jungle you pretty much passed salvation I want to roll back to Jungle I don't want to skip this bit out you've gone booms if you get six weeks there I want to know what you know for someone like myself I'm trying to get my age around right being in a jungle number one number two I'm thinking snakes I'm thinking insects I'm thinking where am I going to sleep am I sleeping on the floor just explain to me what it looks like it feels like what have you got if you've got a backpack if you've got anyone bringing you food any cook anyone cooking for you what is it so and whereabouts is it we were out in Brunei in Brunei okay so it's going to be scorching and humid you're soaked yeah so from the moment you wake up so you basically have two sets of rig two sets of clothing you have a dry set and you're working set so each day you put your working set on which is immediately soaked in sweat and then at night if you are not on hard routines so basically hard routine is you're fully tactical you just sleep on the floor in your clothes you just lie down the floor and go to sleep were you happy laying on the floor getting a kid you're not so naked I cannot explain how hard the jungle is physically if you imagine being at your absolute limit every single day like just on that I would say it took me a year 12 months plus to fully to fully feel back physically to pre the jungle it taxes your adrenal system gets so smashed because you can't get enough because you're on rations the whole time pretty much getting enough calories you know you're carrying on most days Bergens that are 120 140 pounds which is this break they're almost at 2.2 what 40 kg yeah 50 kg yeah 40 50 on your back on your back it feels like your shoulders are getting ripped off that's heavy and that is and you're patrolling doing tactical patrolling in that heat in the humidity it's just it's incredibly the jungle is the one of them are probably the most taxing environment I've ever soldiered in and having the pressure of selection on top of that it's why it's there for a reason because it's so testing if you can make it through that and Soldier to a good standard that's why it's there because the end product is Special Forces well 80 people went into that and 63 didn't make it and that's and that's people that are you have to remember everyone that starts on that first day of selection are already Wolverines Commandos parachute regiment people have done Afghans iraqs like experiences yes everyone at the beginning and this is where the mindset comes in physically is capable of passing that course so it then comes down to mindset and skills and really the skills side of it and I think this applies across life it's the basics like you know we say Special Forces it's nothing really special about it's actually the opposite is doing the basics very well and the jungle is very good for doing that if you are not good at your admin like the simple things like keeping yourself clean in those conditions and looking after yourself you will degrade so quickly that you just won't function so getting the basics right the very basics of soldering or patrolling of doing contact drills that's what it's there to test because that's once you have that solid foundation that's what you build everything else from how many days were you in the jungle for so it's four you're in there basically for four weeks solid so imagine what you look like after four weeks in the same clothes no washing cam cream give me an example of the food you said rations I mean also rations you have like delicious yeah tell me what's it tell me what you mean rations are basically get your breakfast your main meal and then a load of snacks and it's just I I don't know there's maybe 4 000 calories it's just calories like you say what you say Russians are you there with a tin pot cooking it up in the morning it was it coming to packet yeah so it's in a packet so it's either boil boil in a pot of water you can eat it cold so a lot of the time you are just eating a cold um but yeah stick it in water boil in the bag eat out the bag it's all packaged it tastes they're a lot better than they were now they're actually all right yeah but it's just calories you just need to get as many calories on board as you can and what we're actually doing in there though you're waking up give me an example of a day you're waking up you are you shooting in there are you are you practicing rolling around and looking and maps and just I just want to get an overview it's not my world I just want to get an overview of what your sort of day was just imagine basic soldiering skills so exactly that can you navigate the map and compass and imagine being in a jungle with the trees where everything looks the same it is so hard so hard to navigate in the jungle so it might be that you're doing a patrol X so you are basically they just give you points to get to so as a patrol you just need to navigate around to different points carrying heavy loads so again being knackered being fatigue try not to think about the 140 pounds on your back pulling your shoulders off trying to think and understand map to ground being very focused you have to be on it all the time being aware of your surroundings how far have I gone what distance am I covering what's my pacing you know whereabouts am I or another day maybe doing range work so it's just practicing and again the general military practices as well it's just break contact drills I.E you're a small Patrol you're walking along you come under enemy contact and so you have to return fire and then extract yourself from that situation so laying down covering fire you know heat you've ever seen the film heat like that was probably one of the best examples that scene where they're doing the the bank robbery and they come in a fire if you watch them they are one will move well one other is firing and they'll just bounce so you've always got someone laying down covering fire while the other person moves so get very basic drills you don't do anything people have this view that you're doing these crazy things it's not it's very simple tactical Maneuvers but it's how well can you execute those in a very testing environment under a lot of pressure and it's live rounds so you don't want to get it wrong no so give an example so if someone's in there now and you're you're 80 are you seeing people put their answers I've had enough get me out of here how does it work yeah so people just volunteer withdrawal so some people will get medically taken out if you know they've gone down or can't cope but apart from that you don't get failed it's not like oh you failed get out yeah that doesn't happen to the end in the jungle unless you are unsafe and got pulled out for a safety reason then you'll just carry on through but people will just quit and a big thing that gets people is during that entire process you don't really get any feedback on how you're doing and that's very hard for a lot of people you think about life how often do you not get any feedback on how you're doing something through school through everything we're doing we usually get feedback and because it's such a hard environment and you mess up all the time people get in their own heads and when they've made mistakes they just think oh well I failed so what is the point why continue putting myself through hell and then what usually happens is they they quit they leave the jungle and you have a leaving interview with a commanding officer and they ask you how'd you think you were doing oh terrible that's what I quit like now actually you're doing pretty good you were on road to pass but but that's part of it people get in there you know everyone messes up they're probably the one of the worst days I had we were late we were due to meet our DS the instructor at a certain point and so we were we're kind of rushing to get there we had to fill up water and all the patrol were across there's a big log bridge that we had to cross across the stream um they were all one side of me and another guy were filling up our water bottles and as I was walking back up the muddy bank I kind of slipped and dropped my water bottle and this is one of the other guys in the patrol told me afterwards he said he turned to one of their lives and said oh Jeff has had a bad day isn't he he'll probably fall off that bridge next funny old thing come across walking across this massive log rope Bridge it's slipped fell about 10 feet off this bridge luckily into the mud but then I was covered in mud my weapon was covered in mud get up meet the DS what's the first thing he says right everyone stripped down your weapons to show me your weapon which should be gleaming clean yeah at any time so it's like you just hand over a weapon that's covered in mud and you can't do anything you just you're like well that's a black mark But you just gotta get on with it but I never to me I was never going to pull myself off I was going to make it to the end and if it wasn't good enough I wasn't good enough but those are the kind of things people just getting their own heads and then like what's the point can you get to the end of that four weeks and them say sorry you didn't pass yeah so that's what happens so you have the however I can't remember how many finished the jungle phase but then it's after that you come back to the UK and you're in a room they're just cool names that is brutal yeah it is that is really brutal so you you could do all of the whales thing you could get out to the Jungle four weeks being pushed mentally physically that you're broken for them to come back to landing and say sorry mate you didn't make it yeah and I know people have gone through that twice and had two they call it a stand-up stand-up fails they've done that and had two fails so they've done it all again and it's bad enough the first time doing it a second time and failed the second time fail the second time as well that is brutal isn't it yeah I know but I know guys give an example you you've smashed whales you smashed the jungle you're all camarader where you get to the end of the Jungle you're all looking at each other again you know what I think I've got through this what would they fail on your skills basically so the whole time you're being watched so the DS are there with the notepad and they're just constantly making notes so it could be anything you know Tactical patrolling skills a lot of it is on the ranges so how you are in those brake contact drills so essentially the kind of firefight training a lot of that is make or break so if you don't do very well on those that's usually a big black mark and so often it's just the the usual reason is you know you clear you haven't got enough experience or you're falling short on these skills go away practice them and then come back on and have another go so it's usually a skill sometimes it is a face doesn't fit they have tried as much as possible to remove that out as in to remove that bias so half or towards the end you switch your DS your instructors are assigned to you so a different person's looking because you do it does happen you know so you roll back they said if a face doesn't fit yeah that's the same as in with your playing rugby uh high level and your coach actually doesn't like you yeah it doesn't pick you sit on the bench every week you go to another team he plays you first then you end up playing for England or top level is that the same here okay I think it's the same they try and remove it by pulling those parameters in place but it's human nature we naturally warm to some people or not to others and you see it you know James was in there was a Royal Marines well you see it in basic training if the training to you know for Royal Marines or whatever if the training team likes you and generally if you're fit lad you know if you do you you get more passes on stuff you know that when they're doing kit inspections you may you know a little misdemeanor they find something like but if they don't like you they will find something of you every time and they would thrash you until you leave basically and it's it shouldn't sometimes it's a tough one sometimes it's warranty the people that probably shouldn't be there but when it's not warranted it's tough yeah that's really hard because someone's getting hammered basically just because that person and like I said hopefully that is mitigated by the DS changing because then they get that fresh person seeing them and like well actually I think they're a good bloke yeah but it does still it does still happen so you finish the four wigs you fly straight back to London how long is it until you get the nod to say yes you passed so yeah you fly back to the UK and then you've got another three roughly three months um without knowing but you know where you've once you've passed the jungle you pretty much you'd have to do so you'd have to mess up pretty badly to then fail after that so you pretty much know at that point and then you've got three months of your parachute training and various other bits and then you're kind of done an off to your unit so you pretty much know at that okay and you say off to you when's the day when they say uh how does it work is it like you are now in the Special Forces you are now at the SBS you're now in SAS did you know your route before you wanted okay so you choose before um you when I did it I don't know if it's changed now that you put in so you go I'm you know you're going on you choose your unit for just go through a selection and then you pass and then so guys going to pool ground to pull and then I was going to SOS go to herefords and then you just in your job basically okay and do you get what sort of what sort of money was it compared in the Royal Marine to then being select and say well I'm now in the SBS you get spec pay so you just get um well it's funny they call it retention pay so you probably get I can't actually remember you're probably getting an extra 15 grand a year maybe depending it depends what you get it depends what level what level you're at beforehand but it is so generally for most people they're getting more but because they call it retention pay and it does work because if so in the military if you want to leave you need to give a Year's notice which is Bonkers give a Year's notice if you've had enough yeah so unless you've got you know special circumstances you give a year so you've got 12 months and if you had your notice in they're not going to like you for the next 12 months or they or they are they no I haven't seen that that doesn't come into it because people leave for you know if you've got a valid reason you just want to leave I've had enough yeah but you lose that retention pay so it traps a lot of people if you've got a mortgage and things like that for that entire year you lose all of that extra special forces pay so you're still doing the same job for a year and not getting paid so for example how much you'd be getting as a royal Marine roughly God what did you get I mean when you're in training when you first when you're a recruit you're on like 650 quid a month or something right Bonkers you get your accommodation and food Throne yeah okay and then after that what do you want 20 . okay now yeah 900 quid a month yeah raw Marine yeah but you don't do it for no no you don't do it but if you think about it what's that 12 G's a year roughly it's probably less I don't know what it is 12 Grand a year plus your food and you and then when you want to jump don't tell me that is um no so it goes by that point because by that point in your career you're probably like mid-20s let's say Okay most I would say on average as a as someone going on selection say you've been in a few years Corporal something you've probably mid-20s mid to 1920s yeah okay and then you jump up to your 45s 50s in SBS yeah that's probably roughly the wall Ballpark and what do you reckon the package looks like if you were like well how can I get a free accommodation I get loads of perks I get my food I get all perks Everywhere You package it up or I've never the entire time as a military I don't think I ever ate I'm gonna [ __ ] right okay one Camp yeah it's just [ __ ] give me example give me an example of what sort of food they would give you it's because they're canteen it's because it got taken over so long a while ago the military you used to a set amount of your pay was taken out each month to cover food and food at that time was pretty good when I joined in 2008 it was just changing Sodexo won the contract so it got changed to like privatized and so it was then just you go and pay when you go to the Cook House or Galley or whatever it is and it was just because the food was crap not as many people went and so the less was going into it so it was just a Perpetual like self-perpetuating yeah so it was just yeah it's just a shame isn't it yeah it was yeah what about what about the uh the moment when you get your burrow how does that go is there a big parade or is it no just yeah just a very simple very simple low-key just ceremony on Camp because it's all meant to be and what do they give you you should get a Barry and a belt is that right yeah Jeff is well done mate you've done you've done that's basically what it is but again it's not it's not meant to be no one does it for that it's not how did you feel when you knew your passion were given your Berry that day to be honest that wasn't for me the defining moment for me was I didn't even know if I'd passed it was actually leaving the tree so finishing in the jungle and you get a helicopter out back to the main army camp so you leave like physically leave the jungle and on that flight out I just remember sat in the helicopter looking out over the tree camp in a canopy and just feeling like you know I I'd done everything I'd given everything I'd done all that I could and so whether or not I passed I knew I couldn't have done anymore so if I wasn't good enough I wasn't good enough and that for me was the most satisf that was a more satisfying moment than actually getting the berry I was like well I did it I got through the trees and I gave it my all so whatever happens so you know it was nice getting that Berry but actually that was far more fulfilling because it was a it was an internal marker that I checked for myself as opposed to an external one yeah getting handed to Berry that's a nice way to put it and it's also and I think that in life again if you if you can if you can live up to your own set yourself standards and values and live up to that it would be it's much easier to find happiness and fulfillment in life than if you're always waiting for someone else to validate what you've done yeah mate totally agree so then when you come back then you're based down in pool what was what was that world like for you down here and have you been on any tours yeah so I did I did three tours of Afghan um I did two it was 2010 11 and then 2014 and 15. was there any one of those tours that stands out in your mind probably the last one that I did because it was the most interesting I had a lot of autonomy on that um so I was working in Kabul um in the city and I was attached to a different unit very small there was like eight of us I think living in this sort of small house compound Inca ball had a lot of leeway it was training one of the indigenous and the Afghan arrest forces and doing jobs with them and it's just a lot of Independence you know I was I was driving around had this battered Hilux like truck and he was just driving around the city on your own if had to go out go to an embassy or go to a camp to pick up stuff or whatever and it's just a surreal I just remember you know driving around just thinking how surreal I'm just in Kabul and Afghan essentially in a war zone just cutting around on my own but it was just one of those I think you know I'm never gonna do anything like this again was there was there one of those tours that was more violent the ones that's no not in particular like tours are a real potluck in terms of what happened like whether they're busy whether or not some you can go out with a squadron and not do many jobs and then another Squadron can take over and they can be going out all the time so it's very much sort of random what happens So when you say you're going out so you explain where you were living what sort of accommodation you're living in what did you have to wear every day were you walking around with machine guns we yeah it's funny isn't it because you because it was something you're used to you forget that for people yeah you're not in it's like a very different it's for us so it's very different the difference between I think when people think of Afghan you either think of the big bases like Kandahar or bastia and then you have the small outposts um where guys are just patrolling out each day for us we a lot of the time you're based out of the big ones like Kandahar um or Bastion and so that is Camp life the same as everyone else you just wear a normal military uniform going about the difference between what special forces do and what General uh army or Marine units are doing is they will be out in outposts so fob's forward operating bases and their job is to hold that area or try and protect that area and so they will just be walking out and patrolling every day and actually in many ways that is harder and more dangerous because they're in one position and they're just walking out and they're basically rolling the dice rolling the dice with with Afghans putting bombs underneath you're rolling imagine every day I mean this and this is I never did one of those tours imagine every day for six months you are essentially going I might walk out and lose my limbs or get blown up like every day imagine the mental toll on that like I'm gonna walk out and I don't know if The Next Step I Take that's me gone and so that is very taxing whereas his special force is the ironic thing is in many ways it's a lot safer because you are targeting high profile targets you will get Intelligence on where potentially are you will have air assets you will have drones up watching that Target for days soaking up the pattern of life so watching what's going on and then you will fly in in the middle of the night night vision goggles land on that you know Zero Dark Thirty land on that compound and arrest that Target you know neutralize arrest that Target and so you have all of the advantages the deck is stacked in your favor whereas for those Lads out doing those um you know General in the Forbes so you know take my half and remember a lot of those Lads 17 18 years old doing that it's you know we put I think Special Forces on a pedestal actually a lot of those guys did a lot more gnarly stuff yeah that in many ways a lot of people have done in Special Forces so you'll get you'll get intelligence who are you going to arrest yeah I mean this is where politics comes into it just whoever they consider to be high profile targets so I couldn't even tell you because and this is like did you care no no okay I don't think anyone like looking back could I now with when I joined the military you don't you don't think about politics I wanted to join the military because you know it appealed to me they eventually the job whatever all those aspects and then you go in and you go and you're sent where you're sent you're going to those jobs let's be you know what does anyone think we're an Afghan or a rack for really that's not a noble the only people I've met are forces I've met that really kind of buy into that are some of the American guys who really buy into that yeah we're going out there and taking democracy it's politics it's business it's cash that drives all these things like morally could I go now and do some of those jobs I mean yeah we were taking so a lot of the dudes that we were going after are were doing bad things and so on a micro level does that then help some people in that yeah hopefully it does if we look at it on I mean it let's no one thinks it was a success Afghan was a massive failure um why was it a massive failure I think when I say that if you're taking it on the facts of we were there for what a 10 I could have many years and then within a space of what six months after leaving it was back to exactly what it was you know Taliban took back control there a matter of months after years and years of spending billions yeah so I mean how can you not say that that isn't a failure when you're going in how many of you are going in on a night shift with the head guards and what have you been trying to arrest someone or take someone out it varies depends on the jobs um towards the end when it was more afghan-led there was maybe 10 15 back previous to that and maybe in 30 on big jobs it could be even more but say take it on average 20 to 30. so the 20 30 of you going in to do a job yeah how do you know if someone's a Taliban or just a normal Afghan Farm worker or what have you you take it until you take interpreters with you and you do like biometric testing was coming in so fingerprint scans and stuff if they're already in the system or if they're trying to shoot at you um there's another one is there a rule or some sort of rule or law that yeah you take you've got to take someone out before they take you out because if someone was pulling a shooter on me I would want to take the match straight away is there something that you can't do that or do you have to then if you did do that you then got to go and report it back there's a big report to do and it could be headache it's Rules of Engagement so it's yeah you've got Rules of Engagement where it's it needs to be it's almost I guess similar to the threat to life in the UK as in if you believe that your life is in danger and you have a valid reason you need to be able to justify yeah essentially what the actions um that you took or taking um do you remember taking any people out I knew that question was it's always an interesting why do you think people are interested in that like as a I guess a civilized society why people find that as an interesting part of it is what I always find because I was trying to think back you know James and I were chatting about this before I joined the military I think there was anything I ever thought about and it wasn't I don't know anyone personally and even when I was in it's not something that's massive you know guys don't go around talking about how many people they've killed or no they keep it they keep it quiet I find it quite intriguing on the mindset of it's either you for about to kill me or I take you out before I think it comes more down to you everything that you do is for the people around you like it and again it comes back to the question of politics I don't know anyone in the military that are served with that was doing that job because of they believe in some kind of belief of a greater good they were doing that job because it was a job they wanted to do and through that the bond that you form with the people around you I guess just a more intense or extreme version of say a sports team that play for each other and you put yourselves on the line for each other that's what you're doing like everything is about the person next to you like when I think back you know the most I guess intense moments are you know you're flying in on that helicopter to do a job and you start to get a countdown so when you're 10 minutes out you're starting to sort of change your mindset and ramp up you know you may have been on a helicopter for an hour or so kind of dozing away because it's you know two in the morning and you okay 10 minutes out you're starting to ramp up you start to think about the job taking off the warm jacket and then it's five minutes out and now you're really starting to ramp out you're checking your weapon's good to go your Kit's good to go and then you're two minutes out and you're kneeling at the in two columns at the back of the the tailgate of the helicopter and you just got your guy over to your left and then yeah I can feel the Goosebumps now and you've got 60 seconds and the tailgate's coming down and you're coming into Target and it's just you and that guy next to you and that is that's all you're thinking about it's like I am going to do the job to the best of my ability for these people next to me because I know that they will be doing that for me and that's what everyone and that's why I think when you leave the military what you miss the most is that and that's what everyone misses because you just cannot you cannot create recreate that in any other severe it's such an intense bond that you get and that's what is definitely what I miss interesting was there ever a moment you come unstuck unstuckers in in trouble you thought [ __ ] I'm in trouble here because you know what the closest one I had on operations no there was probably one I actually went on one of the the last tours that I did there was we were clearing a compound and I was on a corner and it was pretty much cleared and nothing had been found so we were like oh it's going to be pretty quiet and then about 20 meters along the wall from where I was grenade went off and a load of machine gun fire erupted one of our guys got and one of the Afghans we were with got frag from the grenade what's a frag so like the bit um the fragments okay yeah took some frag and it kicked off a whole load of dust your night vision goggles and you couldn't see anything and I knew so the guy that got hit was off somewhere beyond that and whoever the insurgents that were firing was somewhere in that and firing through this dust cloud that you can't see and I basically then knew I had to cross across that to get to the other side where because it'd come across the radio that one of our other guys had gone to the guy that got frag needed help to pull him out and so you know you have to go across this open space essentially where that fire is coming through but you don't even I think that's the point of that Bond it it doesn't even come the the question of whether to do it or not isn't it doesn't even come up it's more of a case of a quick well this is happening then and you just kind of do it but actually one of the the only time or one of the closest times where I thought I was really gonna sort of something really bad was going to happen I was gonna catch it up either end up severely injured or worse was actually climbing like on a climbing course and Special Forces down in Devon of all places and you know long story short because you put your own protection in when you're climbing you're kind of putting little bits of Kit into the Rock and I was climbing up and I was nearly at the ledge where it was kind of a safe point and my foot slipped and I fell and all the bits that I put in started to pull out so I was falling and it almost goes in slow motion I'm just hearing ping ping ping as like each bit of Kit comes out and so in my head and it's not even it's not even a panic it's almost an acceptance of well this is gonna [ __ ] hurt and the very last piece held and I swung down smacked into the Rock and I stopped a foot maybe from the ground and the guy who was holding the other end to ropes feeling me was like ah ghost white because he thought he's just about to witness but it is you know training training you know has to cut in many ways as close to the bone as possible and through you know there was a guy unfortunately died on my boats course um another guy survived but got shot on a different course on my parachute course two guys collided at 500 feet and fell to the ground how they didn't die I don't know but Shad ankles broken pelvis ruptured spleen shoulders because it's just the nature of that World by its very nature how did the guy like that how did the guy die in the boat he drowned so drowned we were doing drills um where were you that was down in Devon again as well yeah what sort of drills are you doing just Jen it was just surf drills we're just doing just doing uh General um nothing crazy it was just unfortunate it wasn't no one did anything wrong it was just an unlucky accident what sort of drills were you doing in training once you're in the SBS you're not in Afghan you're not uh Iraq or wherever you're back here trying to I see a lot of the helicopters go off the coast here yeah do they is it true they drop you off like three miles out and go make your way back no no okay okay there's some rumors flying around there I've I've not yeah I've not done that it's just like again it's nothing is nothing particularly crazy about it but I think you're very humble saying it's nothing too crazy about it and when we're talking it this is a whole new world to 99.9 people listening to this and I reckon there's a lot of crazy [ __ ] that you've always got up to because I've got some friends who have been serving that are still serving in SBS and stuff and they're they've all got a they're all on another level but it's I think this comes back to again what people perceive it as hard actually it's a really easy life and what I mean by that and even on operations people think that that is hard in many ways it's easier than day-to-day life and what I mean by that is when you're doing something that really aligns with who you are and you love what you're doing even though stuff is hard it's actually easy and actually the life as a soldier because like I said so much you have to worry about the dentist and medical stuff like if you want to eat on camera comment like it's all taken care of and in operations life is simple so all you have to worry about is is my kit good to go that's basically it am I ready for the job you know physical training you've got the gym go to the gym do your training go and do the job so outside of let's remove okay if something traumatic happens and repercussions of that but outside of that it's a simple life you're with your mates going to the gym sunbathing yeah going out doing jobs and then coming back you don't have there's no commute you're not in traffic there's no bills to worry about you don't have an argument like it's simply it removes all of the stresses that make life hard for a lot of people and it you know my stark contrast with it I in my entire military career I cannot think of a Time where I remember being stressed about things I was pretty happy the entire time when I left and got a job in corporate London those two years were more stressful for me than anything I ever did in the military it's a lot it's very similar to the rugby boys they're in a bubble for 10 years is the word yeah you're in a bubble where you've got your mates you've taken the piss you're having a laugh it's camarado it's Community it's food it's fighting for each other on the pitch as you guys looking after each other was there ever a point in the eight years when you were in the espresso I can't be doing this for the rest of my life I need to see what else is out there that's that's why I left I for me it was a video strange thing is that I always knew I wanted to be in the military but I always knew that it wasn't going to be something that I would do forever I didn't want to do the full career and I think once I passed selection having driven towards such a big goal for a long time although I enjoyed the job afterwards I think I already started to get that itch of like what's what's the next big challenge what what can I do and by the time I left I'd done selection I'd done three tours I've done everything I wanted to do and I just asked myself if I leave now will I regret it and there was some you know a few other bits that would have been good to do but that could have happened in 12 months or I could have waited five years and so I decided to join to leave in my early 30s rather than later and I didn't know exactly what I was going to do but I knew it was something I knew I needed or wanted another big Challenge and the reason I went to to London was purely my partner at the time got a job there so I was like well you know maybe that's it maybe you know the corporate world and going through that and then about two weeks into it was definitely not were you like getting a tube into work wearing a suit in a in an office with you must have been piss boring it's just a contrast yeah it did yeah tube into London management consultancy very lucky you know the company that I work for was great the people were really great but it just didn't the only way was the company it was called rise Management Consultant okay so it was I was I had a project in Covent Garden it's like going for SBS to a project in Covent Garden cat go who own all the property there were redoing all of the lighting so it's project managing that mate I'll turn up to meetings in Capco like the engineers m e guys Architects laying out all this I had no idea what so you're kind of cuffing it but but you're a good team player and you're good at building teams around you and comrade organizations yeah absolutely but that whole thing because it what I realized very quickly was that it just wasn't me didn't allow me and it's almost like a friction between who you are and then the life you're living and that was the first time you know felt stressed about stuff started to lack consistency in my training problems were like all of those other things and this is where I think that alignment piece is so key because if I look at my journey so at that point I realized okay that this isn't for me I need to figure out what it was and so I really set about that realized that it was business in some sense I was like right I want to be my own boss and specifically I want a digital business so let's I want geographical freedom to work from everywhere teamed up with John who had been in the military with and then made every mistake in the book you know we read all the books in entrepreneurship and business and we chased cash in the beginning tried loads of random random things so will you do were you were you did you have a side business while you're being paid so you were getting your yeah how much were you on in the city then like 50 50 Grand at the same time thinking I'm definitely not this is definitely not for me we need to be building something on this idea yeah okay so that and what was that thing on the side important stuff from China selling on Amazon yeah we had some random like betting thing we had some some dude in like Slovakia logging into like do spread betting stuff oh mate I'm speaking to him I remember you'd like Skype him and we just it looked like an Eastern blocky behind a wire bed a lot smoking a cigarette It's So Random so we did all these random things we had so John can code so we had this little software yeah business partner that I was in in the so that I served with and we basically ended up we chased cash it all failed after two years of working that corporate job and side hustle basically lost both of us lost all of our savings so everything we saved in the military we've blown it all on this side hustles and work you know spent countless hours which probably contributed to the relationship ending and so at that point we're like well we've got no cash we lucky you know I'm very grateful for it we both moved back into my parents back in Worcestershire on the farm so two blokes mid-30s broke we shared a Ford Focus that cost 400 quid right we used to organize because we were single at the time if we were going to organize dates we'd organize them the same venue at the same time to share the car to drive there so like back to zero but at that point we're like right we've got nothing we're back at the beginning let's just do something we actually care about they're passionate about which for us was always mindset and performance like even in the military and it's changed a bit now it's now caught up a lot but at that time like no one was really you know we were the only guys doing CrossFit was just coming in yeah like it wasn't big this was 2000 and 2009 and everyone was just classic bodybuilding yeah it was probably me and a handful of the guys wearing vibrant Farm figures and doing doing CrossFit now the whole gym set was CrossFit yeah and so we were always looking for that kind of Edge and even you know before Dave brailsford and then team sky and one percent yeah we'd read about um it was Clive Woodward who first I don't know if you've seen the building Jerusalem documentary so Clive Woodward and he'd heard about it from a sailor like he was the first guy to really Implement that in the sports team he did it with that 2003 he implemented the the marginal gains one percent Rule and so we from that point when I heard about that you know we really took that on board and applied it to everything we're doing so we're like let's just start a business around that and that's where the natural Edge came from but the point on being aligned with what you're doing you know in the military on the face of it very hard but aligned to who I was I cared about it therefore easy London well paid success you know looks success from the outside stressed not happy not finally fulfillment Stone broke mid-30s when all your friends are buying houses and getting married living back with your parents look [ __ ] from the outside again feeling happy and fulfilled because I'm on the right path so I'm doing something that I care about so it's this point that it does play into it but generally regardless of external circumstances how happy and fulfilled you are has a lot more to do with how much are you living in line with what you value with who you really see yourself as because that if you get that right everything else becomes easier if you get that wrong everything else is harder yeah so just going back there the natural Edge tell me about the natural Edge in your business yeah so it's been we've done again because every journey is a process you know how it started in the beginning is very different now in the beginning we thought it was going to be more of a one and done service so training nutrition mindset sleep you know come and do it we'll do it all and over the years it's transitioned to where we are now which is basically pure mindset and performance because what we've seen is everything we do is driven by mindset like all of your behaviors your thoughts everything come you know the mind is primary and so if you're struggling for most you know struggling with say going to the gym the blocker is generally not the the functional aspects of that as in physically going to the gym it's the mindset that means you're not getting up or you're not going after work or whatever it is and so if you can win that battle and make changes there everything else becomes easier and I'd say that the people most of the people that come to us we don't deal in trauma or anything around that it's the more General Life piece of I've got all the pieces of the puzzle to be happy you know I've got a decent job the family whatever it is and yet I I procrastinate too much I find it hard to switch off I worry about things too much out of my control I lack self-belief in myself in one or several areas and lack of purpose does come up you know for a lot of these people they've kind of got to 30s 40s and they've kind of been driving got to a point in their career or got the house and then it's like or what's next what does the next 10 20 years of my life look like I think a lot of those people at that age in those sort of 40s a lot of depression kicks in because now you could be 40 and you could be having a wonderful job in your 20s when everyone's like oh let's jump look at the salaries on when you get into your 30s and 40s or late 30s 40s you're still doing that same job but you're stuck because you can't go and find something else that's when a lot of a lot of men start to get depressed they've got a mortgage they've got around the neck they've got a job they don't enjoy going to they got a couple of kids maybe a kid in private school you know they've got all these bills to me but actually deep down are they happy it's what a couple of things I hear a lot are stuck in a rut yeah Groundhog Day yeah someone summed it up once that's chatting to a guy on the phone he said I feel like I'm trapped in the modern life cycle of work I feel softer I feel less resilient it's like you've lost that excitement and drive of the 20s and now you're looking for that next thing and the biggest mistake and what our core ethos is is that people don't treat mindset as a skill set what I see most of the time is you know everyone understands that to change the physical body you have to take action and be consistent like you can't just listen to a podcast or read a book on diet and expect to lose weight and yet with mindset that's what everyone does people will read a book or listen to a podcast and then wonder why a few decades worth of neural Pathways patterns and behaviors aren't changing like it's Bonkers when you think about it yeah and yet we don't really have we've almost so we've got on the one hand those books and podcasts and then on the other end of the spectrum you've got therapy and it doesn't seem there's this what we Sorry in the middle that's what what we have done is over five years of studying and learning as much as possible about Behavior change the Psychology and Neuroscience and working with people is just deconstructed that into a practical step-by-step framework whereby people can actually be consistent with these changes start changing those behaviors because until you do that until you put that work in and make it an active process you're just not going to change like you it's the reason everyone loves to think that they're making conscious logical rational decisions every day but the fact of it is and the research is clear you're not and it's very easy to see for yourself that you're not by the sense of how many times do you say you're going to do something oh I'm definitely going to go to the gym I'm definitely not going to eat this I'm definitely you know I'm going to focus on my work or whatever it is or I'm not going to do these things and then you do the opposite and it happens time and time again if it was as simple as just logically telling yourself I'm going to do this or not do this and then following it through well no one would need any help it would all have six packs be millionaires yeah but the fact is we don't and it's because we're driven by our core narrative by the the way that we see ourselves and the way that we see the world and that is pretty much informed by all of your experiences the education systems you've been through the environments you've been in and evolution ties into a bit from the day you're born to where you are now and it's you know why do you wear the brands that you wear like why you why do you wear that brand that you're wearing now why am I wearing this shirt you're wearing it because that ties into your identity why is someone liberal why is someone conservative why does someone find a joke funny and someone else find it offensive you're always going to act out of that internal narrative but most of the time it's sitting at that subconscious level unless you understand really like the the the true reasons why you are who aren't thinking or acting or behaving in a certain way you're going to find it very hard to change the analogy I usually use is people try and force action at the point of action itself I.E I'm gonna force myself to go to the gym I'm gonna force myself to focus and what you're trying to do there is almost control or stop an avalanche when you need to be looking at the snowball you need to understand well why am I thinking about this like why am I trying to force things because Force relies on motivation and willpower which are useful tools but they're pretty much misunderstood and used in the wrong ways it it comes back to the identity piece you really need to understand yourself and why you do or don't act in a certain way and then change it powerful staff Jeffers no it's good mate it's really good you're talking complete sense you know what I mean it's fantastic to hear I like how you've transitioned from the SPs Special Forces you've gone and done two years in in the city realized that it's definitely not for me you've then got to set up your business now who's your ideal customer I I would say Elsie else our ideal customer are people I'd say 35 35 to 45 maybe you know early 50s got to a point in life again where they have the piece of the puzzle male female generally males we have and I think that is just perhaps that's the background of the fact that we're you know guys be a pill more to guys I don't know but that's generally who um who we attract some more guys got the pieces of the puzzle so generally got a good job being successful yeah business owners managers some kind of um you know good level or higher level position usually got the family or a married and yet it is all those things are listed are just something feels out of place don't feel fully fulfilled and satisfied lacking self-belief somewhere I do procrastinate too much I worry too much and I tell you what's really been interesting over the past few years of doing this is how many people feel like this that you would not think from the outside the most common thing is if you they say if you wrote my life down on paper and gave it to someone they'd be like this guy this person's smashing it you know what they're killing it in life and yet internally they're not feeling like it but because no one talks about this everyone kind of just deals with this and silence deals with it on their own and I hear the same things over and over again on the calls it's the same stuff and it's and I think it's quite opening when people come in to our coaching because we have a couple of group calls a week and other people on the call it's always really interesting for them to suddenly see other people opening up and talking about stuff and they're like it's not just me I think that is then there's a massive smoke screen out there that oh you got the nice house you've got a nice car you've got a wife everything's lovely but deep down there's a lot of men out there are still little boys because they haven't dealt with the trauma maybe from a 7 8 9 10 11 12 year old for them to be able to move forward in Life or they're actually stuck in life at the moment yeah I don't in many cases it's not some people have got so much money cases it's not even trauma again it just because the what's really good and why I love what we do is when you see someone and I see it or someone sent me a message the other day you know through the different processes techniques that we use they're like they have an epiphany moment and they suddenly realize why they're actually acting in a certain way they're like oh [ __ ] hell oh of course that's why I'm doing this and once they have that they're like okay now I understand why I'm doing this and how I'm seeing it I can change it and the first thing I always say to people is process before they come into the coaching the only way this works is you've got to be ready to be honest with yourself unless you are going to really get them that's the hard this is harder in many ways than than any other work that you do because you have to be willing to look inside and look at parts of yourself that you perhaps don't like and when I first went through you know when I really started to to go through this process and really it was the work that I did myself that led into it you know I realized that I was great in a work sphere I had a very growth mindset you know willing to fail and push myself but actually in a relationships I had a very fixed mindset it was kind of like well this is mean you know take it or leave it because I can't change as opposed to or actually if I start to have difficult you know if I actually have those difficult conversations that I don't want to and I put effort into working through it as uncomfortable as that feels well funnily enough I suddenly start to get better relationships but it was only through that admittance of well like is that so and this is something that I do now all the time I ask myself when something comes up is that the truth or is that a belief yeah like is so if I get you know if I'm getting frustrated by something or I'm seeing something in a certain light and it just doesn't feel right the first thing I do is step back and ask myself well why why am I feeling like that and and what's the belief behind this how am I how do I think it is what is the belief of myself that's driving this and what's the truth because you know the belief was oh I'm fixed this is me take it or leave it I can't change but the truth was well yes you can change but in order to change you've got to be willing yeah you want to yeah to say yeah okay I'm not that good at this I'm falling down in this I'm you know perhaps not um opening up emotionally or whatever it is but it's so when you when you do that although it's hard it's also positive because we've all got parts of ourselves that you know aren't great or that we don't like but once we see that or are willing to look at it then you can start to change and that and that's when people make those breakthroughs and start to really feel good again do you get a buzz of people making big breakthroughs for your course yeah yeah it is when you see someone and yeah the testimonials page that we've got now and then it's the simple things it's when people talk about their kids and their Partners know one that stands out is he said you know my wife's got her husband back and my kids have got their dad back because I'm not snapping at the moment you know I'm not there was another one it was actually a guy in America that I worked with um and it's we've got a little clip of it you know as a video chat was having with him and he said he was watching TV with his daughter and he was laughing at something and afterwards she said you know Dad you were laughing and he said yeah and she said but you were really laughing she said that's the first time I've seen you happy in a long time she said you know when you're laughing before it just seemed like you were kind of forcing it but now you know I can see you're really happy and that's yeah so powerful I think and again we don't do anything I don't think we do anything special we just we've taken that mindset we've put it into a practical steps that people can follow and when they engage with it and they are willing to do the work then it really opens you know opens it up for them which is amazing absolutely this is fantastic really really powerful stuff where can people find you where can they find your business where can they find you if there's someone out there listening now going you know I love what I'm hearing here I want to get involved I want to get in contact with Jeffers I want to find out how much it costs what the course is what have I got to do to move forward the easiest ways are so on social media it's the natural Edge um Instagram LinkedIn just started Tick Tock um so all of those are the natural Edge always the natural Edge and then same with the website the naturaledge.com and if someone wants to reach out to you personally just drop it yo just drop me a message I always get back to people so whatever of those platforms or an email whichever is easiest to drop me a message can anyone get you on LinkedIn yeah so Simon Jeffries on LinkedIn so Simon Jeffries on LinkedIn yeah so it's under my name Jeff is on there yeah Jeff Jefferson professionals professionals yeah mate I've really thoroughly enjoyed this and I really do appreciate you coming in and I love your honesty I appreciate it well thank you for having me on yeah good good chat yeah mate I've loved it good man thank you very much good man [Music] thank you

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 330,674

Keywords: army, sas, special forces, Simon Jefferies, Dodge Woodall, war, iraq, jungle, sas selection, weapon, training, tour, regiment, america, England, britain, forces, platoon, soldier, commander, opens up, podcast, eventful entrepreneur, clips

Id: 817j42gcnhk

Length: 75min 22sec (4522 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 11 2023