Episode 104: What is in a Catholic Church?

[Music] welcome to godsplaining contemplative preachers contemporary age each week join the dominican friars as they consider all things catholic hello friends welcome back to god's planing if you are looking at this episode on youtube you notice something right away we're on location we're on location big things are happening for the gods planning podcast so this past weekend we just had our first in-person podcast event uh you know the first thing for the podcast so one of the goals that we have in undertaking the project is that we want to use the podcast to bring people together yes our claim is that the digital sphere is not just an you know an entire dumpster fire and then the internet can actually be used for good things not that it isn't you know mostly a dumpster there are certain sections of it that are not it's not a dumpster fire that's like floating down a river it's kind of stationary you know where the the fires are and where to avoid yeah it's a stationary dumpster fire well said good things can happen on the internet and we want to we want to use the podcast to bring people together and that's what we did this weekend so we are still here on location at immaculate conception seminary in huntington new york and we're filming this episode in the extraordinary chapel of the cemetery seminary wow no seminary right there's a certain type of type of death that happens death to self yeah seminary right which is good which is good classic slip-ups um and what a nice little gaff there that'll make at least katie laugh maybe uh maybe other people in the podcast we'll see for those of you that weren't on retreat you maybe have not yet met katie but katie's our uh katie's our executive assistant the show's producer perhaps even if you could call it yeah but executive producers she gets our act together so shout out to katie so here we are on location an immaculate conception seminary and we decided today that we wanted to speak to you about architecture uh in the church because we were so moved by this seminary chapel it was such a beautiful place for our liturgies the the chapel the the cloister walks the porticos the hallways everything had this just absolutely uh captivating and you could tell that being in this physical environment at this location in in a building that is built in such a way it prepared one to be on this retreat you know there was a spiritual preparedness just by being surrounded in this type of building and so as we were you know reflecting on the retreat and how um we kept saying many times how perfect this place is to be on retreat right um but why is that and part of that is the way the building was built the way it was designed and its features in the different types of um artwork and things like that that just being immersed in that helps one in the physical immersion helps them to be kind of spiritually prepared for um you know the graces and the spiritual gifts of a retreat in that way now maybe it's just that we sat on one of these bridges for two hours as we were driving in thank you new york traffic just like this pandemic is really over but as we were approaching the seminary yeah it was clear that the bishop who wanted this uh to be the seminary here was thinking that he would lead and form his men in a space set apart so we're not here in the middle of a city no it's a it's a it's a very gentle country setting i mean the the landscape itself is peaceful and restful and so all of that um is the situation uh that father joseph anthony is talking about well that's the that is how the seminary rather is situated and at the heart of all of this incredible architecture and layout is is this incredible chapel catholics were not the first ones to think of ornamented places of worship uh or to place a premium on them so father joseph anthony why don't you say a few words about about where our tradition of building beautiful places for worship comes with so much of our faith right so much of our patrimony really it goes back to our elder brothers and sisters in the jewish faith and in our relationship with god right as god calls his people to himself um he actually invites them to go to specific places for worship think about moses right in in the burning bush he says go and bring my people up into this mountain so that they can offer sacrifice for me and in that kind of movement the lord has always desired for worship for sacrifice to take place in specific places and he doesn't abandon his people it's not that he's only accessible in these individual geographic locations right his promise is that he remains with his people through the wilderness but when it comes to specific things like worship specific things like sacrifice he identifies where that's to be done and so throughout all of the journey of the israelites you know it was to get to the promised land and once they got there they built a permanent house of worship for the lord in the temple and it then is uh and there's so many really really cool features of the ancient temple in jerusalem that bring about the entire cosmos right the the created order is now brought into its perfection in the worship of god in in his sacrifice and so we carry that tradition on and a lot of what we continue on on into the catholic faith was begun in you know it comes to its fulfillment in christ but we see its beginnings in the old testament as well yeah i think that's a that's a really beautiful point that you're making about the temple itself for the people of israel the temple was supposed to be a a recreation of of creation and i know that's i know that sounds like a silly thing to say but in in building the temple human beings were imitating god's own labors of making right and so the so the temple which was rich and ornate and filled with all kinds of wondrous things from all over the world the temple was supposed to was supposed to uh imitate that first creation and so if you look if you look at the creation accounts the descriptions of the garden of eden you find these you find the details like the river and all of the stones the the precious gems that were that were there in the garden and then you find these same things uh in the temple um you find you find water you find the the richly ornamented stones you find uh you find the trees the wooden panels of the temple you know making us think of the the tree of knowledge of good and evil um in the garden i think one of my favorite things and i if i remember correctly i may be misquoting this i think it was uh josephus the jewish historian okay um as he described different aspects of the temple he said above one of the doorways there are grape clusters right but these grape clusters were six feet tall wow and just like the the the immensity of that but you see that uh bringing you into all of these things so yes these aspects of creation in um genesis then are brought into perfect worship with god it's not this kind of separation from creation into this utter spiritual realm but it's the drawing of physical creation into his perfection by worshiping god in sacrifice inside of the temple now in monastic buildings we've done this too we've imitated that first garden right so the seminary where father joseph anthony and i were formed to be priests the dominican house of studies which is the home of the pontifical faculty of the immaculate conception shout out the the seminary where we were formed is built in the traditional monastic structure which means that uh there are four walls surrounding a garden in the center and why why would there be a garden well because it's a restful and pleasant space to be sure in fact in in our garden in the cloister the dominican house of studies one can forget that one is deep in in the heart of washington dc um you could just be be lost in it so there's the aspect of renewal that just comes from from being out of doors in this seminary certainly has that being situated as it is um in a in a very very beautiful location calling forth the beauty of nature but but building in this way in this form with the garden at the center is a way of remaking eden of thinking back to that original garden where where man encountered god um and thinking back to god's god's first plan for us to be living with him and that's what the monastic life is the religious life is it's a recreation of that original harmony that humans being that human beings had with god um our attempts to to live as closely to god um as might be had on this side of heaven i think the other aspects of um kind of our heritage that we we don't need to be afraid of is that each style of architecture typically reflects the age as well in what it's built and this interesting needs of those people at that age right and as we encounter different in architectures that's why the the catholic architecture is so varied right you can look at baroque architecture right with all their little fat cherub angels floating around and it's just like the over abundance of god and you can find gothic architecture which is so famed for raising the heart and kind of directing everything upwards you know romanesque architecture with its noble simplicity with its arches and noble materials but kind of a minimalistic design in these things so what is absolutely beautiful within the catholic church is the fact that she's not afraid to embrace her children at wherever they be like in in history in the hunger and needs of their people as it's reflected in the the buildings and yet there's still consistency in something that's identifiably catholic about these places and what happens in those places primarily the sacrifices of the mass right that's right and you can see you can see behind us that this chapel is beautifully ornamented and one line that i often say i'm sure i've said it before on the podcast and i'll say it again because i love it so much um but but there was a person who once um encountered the the great uh catholic activist dorothy day and the great servant of the poor that she was and said to he said to dorothy why are catholic churches so richly ornamented wouldn't it be better if the treasures of the church were sold and then that money could be taken and used for the care of the poor and dorothy day devoted to catholic worship as she was said well but there where where then if you know if you were to do this where then would the poor encounter beauty i know our churches are richly ornamented and they're open for all you don't need uh museum passes to to visit catholic churches there are sadly some exceptions to this but but writ large parish churches are are for the people of god they're places of respite and of beauty and they're beautiful because of of this idea of recreation but not just of eden um because we're as father joseph anthony said that the church is a place of worship and of sacrifice and because of that um our churches are intersections with the things of heaven they're transcendent and so i so one one principle despite the great variety that you're arguing for in catholic architecture one principle that i think is true is that if a church fails to reflect the transcendent if it fails to have something that that lifts the heart and mind to heaven about it then it's ugly and it's a failed church and and and that that is chiefly what the purpose of the beauty is that dorothy day is arguing for the beauty for the poor is that you go in and you encounter beauty and your mind and heart ought to be by that beauty raised to heaven it ought to feel transcendent it ought to be the kind of place where something from above intersects the the ordinary right the things of earth it's a tragedy it's not that it's just ugly i think it's tragic when a a church a place a building that's supposed to communicate divine realities it becomes for lack of a better term pedestrian you know it looks like every other building it just blends in there's nothing identifiable about it it gets it gets lost in the mix right yeah that's true it's it's more it's it's more heavy than a building built in bauhaus or you know or something like that you know because it because it has failed to be the kind of thing which it ought to be right um which is this intersection of heaven and earth well great let's pause there and when we come back after this break we're going to talk about some of the particular elements to be found in catholic churches and give our two cents about about what they what they're for and how they ought to look [Music] you are listening to god's planning visit us at godsplaining.org to listen to our episodes shop our store and donate to our podcast all gifts go to improving the podcast and bringing the gospel to more listeners thanks for your support well friends welcome back as i promised before our break we're going to talk more about the the ornamentation of churches what is found in a catholic church father joseph anthony when i ask you what is the what is the the point of orientation what is the most important thing in a catholic church what would you say there are wrong answers absolutely well it's the reason that we set up and framed our shot in the way that we did it's what's right in the center it's a tabernacle it's jesus in the eucharist good that is the correct answer it's i mean everything our entire lives are to be christo-centric if if our lives our actions our words everything that we have is to be about christ in the center the origin and destination of everything then in the building that is dedicated to worship of him he needs to be in the center right and and it's wonderful to see even um churches in how even the architecture and the physical structure of the building can assist that and remind the person um it might be hard to see on the camera but there are a few uh choir stalls in the sanctuary here and they're angled in such a way to just slightly nudge you to focus on the tabernacle this is important to me because our church our new church in charlottesville virginia saint thomas aquinas church the pews are angled in such a way that everybody has a direct eyesight direct eye lines to the tabernacle and it's it's the church i mean the building itself is orienting you to the most important thing and every catholic church needs to have christ at the center and that's just how it needs to be i'm sorry our our i'd our concept of what tabernacles are comes from the old testament you know we're talking a little bit about how our church imitates um the practices of israel in the old testament the ark of the covenant which contained the tablets of the law the ten commandments bits from aaron's staff the rod by which he worked miracles and some flakes of manna from the old testament so that's what was in the archetype of heaven yeah yeah the the the ark of the covenant was in a tabernacle of sorts in the temple and so this is where our concept comes from so when when we say that the eucharist is the fulfillment of these promises of god of that first bread which god gave to sustain the israelites in the desert in the wilderness the manna from heaven our food the eucharist by which christ sustains us now is the is the fulfillment of this ancient promise it is the the bread which continues to nourish us on our pilgrim journey and that's why our that's why our uh churches are such privileged places because they have the very presence of god the eucharist is of course not just a food which nourishes us us but it is god it is god's dwelling place so the israelites had the idea that um that the temple was the dwelling place of god it was the place on earth would you where you could come and meet god and for for us as catholics we have we have something of the same idea a fulfillment of that ancient type and even greater reality present but here in our churches god is present which is why praying in your home is not the same as praying in your church yes you can talk to god in your home but placing yourselves in the presence of christ will have greater effects because you are actually literally near him i've said this you know this is something that we have learned from the covet pandemic right there is an important and very real difference between being and being present right and we i think we experienced that void in that hunger and desire to be in the lord's presence when there was a period of time where we couldn't have mass together right we could live stream that we could be connected but there was still a sadness a longing to be in the presence of of our god and you said yes we should always be praying you know and this is the great joy of our life is that we can pray anywhere in heeding the instructions of our lord to go into our inner rooms and pray so that the heavenly father who knows in secrets can reward us in that way and build that relationship but there's also this deeper hunger to come into the physical presence of god in the eucharist into to build a relationship in his presence because that's how relationships are built is when you're in the presence of the other right after the tabernacle i would say the the second most important element inside any catholic church is the altar yeah the altar is the place where heaven touches earth the altar is the place where the sacrifice of calvary is made present to us not offered again christ died once and for all for the sins of the world on calvary hill and yet the graces the merits of that sacrifice are made present to us when the priest consecrates when the priest acting in persona christi with the mind of the church consecrates the bread and wine and they become for us the body and blood of jesus so the altar is a sacred thing upon which the sacrifice of christ is made present father joseph anthony what what is important to you about catholic altars what do you think our listeners need to hear i think it's extremely important to understand that although things may reflect other aspects of our daily life there's something unique and different this is not just a table right right you have a table in your house right right even maybe maybe you have a fancy table too and you're like kind of fancy dining room that you use once a year i mean but the altar is not just a table it has that aspect to it there's a sacred meal that takes place but altar also is where sacrifice takes place and this is something that i mean we can talk again and again and again about but the mass is is a real sacrifice and how important that is to understand that that there's something being offered to god and from that altar right and even in catholic alters too there's this long hit standing history that it is represents a table it represents the altar of sacrifice but also represents a tomb right and for so uh so many of us we have this kind of inclination but don't really understand fully but every catholic altar has to have when it's consecrated by the bishop he takes relics of saints ideally martyrs those who have sac made the ultimate sacrifice giving their life shedding their blood for the name of jesus that they are entombed their relics are enclosed in that altar and from what to the world looks like death destruction is actually eternal life and we're reminded by that this is why this is why you see the priest kiss the altar he's kissing and reverencing the relics of our forbear the ones who are forerunners you know the ones who go before us to remind us that we too are to imitate them and that what looks to be death right the cross to everybody that stood there it looked like failure it looked like death but this was new life right yeah so when we enter catholic churches we genuflect that it's that posture of kneeling on one knee we genuflect to the tabernacle where the blessed sacrament is reposed we genuflect to christ present you know posturing ourselves as servants before their lord and we venerate as father joseph anthony as saying the altar because uh as he said it contains the relics of saints but also because it is the place upon which the sacrifice happens it's a consecrated object it is itself a holy thing so one wouldn't just have any other kind of snack off of an altar and it wouldn't do it wouldn't do and i think that's that's a word that we may have thrown around a little bit but i think just we should kind of pump the brakes just slightly consecrated right to be consecrated is to be set apart for god right this is why we the altar isn't used right for you know pizza afterwards at the fellowship time we'll get those little plastic folding tables from outside right right the altar is reserved it's set apart aside for god's purpose right and so when we keep talking about things that are consecrated in an extended way the consecrated life of vowed religious we're set apart for god and in a unique way so there's so many aspects of our churches and the things that maybe they reflect some things that we've seen elsewhere in our life like a table or a chalice a cup or of things like that but this this individual thing has been consecrated and set apart four gods now in the time that remains what are one or two more elements of a catholic church that you think are worth noting um as we sit here in this beautiful chapel and it's uh late afternoon and we're recording this the sun is just cascading through this beautiful stained glass windows and illuminating and casting this kind of uh flood if you will of colors throughout this chapel um and stained glass windows have this strong importance within uh the catholic church right and we see that as it allows the light right the allows the light from outside to illuminate but the experience the one who's inside the church receives that light being filtered through that stained glass in these different hues and shades but so many catholic churches have taken that stained glass and not just put geogra or geometric shapes and random color palettes there but it's actually depicting scenes of the life of christ saints the scenes of those and so what we actually receive is this kind of illuminating light but being filtered through the saints being received through the life of christ as we sit there and allows us who sit in these churches to actually meditate and receive this kind of illuminating light of the lord as it's being received and handed to us through the life of christ or through the life of the saints as they followed christ as well remembering what saint paul always said imitate me as i imitate christ right now it's not an essential feature because you will find churches at churches without it but i i do i do think it's a tragedy when they lack it but catholic churches are often distinguished as such by a large principle crucifix which is certainly the case uh here in this chapel and um priests will also place smaller crucifixes on altars the crucifix is so essential because it draws our minds to the work that is being done in the church which when we were talking about the altar we we were thinking theologically about this that the eucharist is the making present again of christ's sacrifice on calvary so it's our our lifeline you know we couldn't stand there on golgotha when jesus died we we weren't there but how do we tap into those graces well by by coming to the church by participating in the mass by being prepared for the ritual action of sunday um and the crucifix reminds us of that especially especially large and beautiful crucifixes they remind us that that is what this place is for and i once uh remember a friend telling me that her young daughter called down in the middle of mass be careful up there jesus the priest had been preaching about the crucifixion and she was worried that something was going to happen to jesus there on the cross in their church but the crucifix which is a depiction not just of the cross but also the corpus the precious body of christ allows us to make this connection between calvary and the body of christ the corpus christi that we receive in holy communion and that there's there's something i think catholics understand that there's something lacking when we see just the shape of a cross without the depiction of christ because for us it's only half the mystery uh calvert calvary is the the the way that salvation was wrought but but the eucharist the body of christ our petition our participation therein is how that mystery becomes the way by it's the way by which that mystery becomes present to our lives and i think as we look through this right one of the um aspects of the catholic churches that help us and i remember last night as we prayed together with all of our retreatants is catholic churches have a lot of candles too right yes and it's not because we as catholics love to be pyromaniacs but we do you know we we set things on fire we light charcoals and and thurbl's and hand it to middle school boys and tell them to be ultra servers and swing fire around you know we we do appreciate the fire but you'll find those side altars right those statues and we can light that those candles uh whether the candles in front of those altars and statues but catholic churches have this long history with having candles right right and it's that opportunity for us to especially the beeswax candles you know as we see the wax slowly fall right it reminds us of you know the death and then the resurrection as well with those new flames that continually burn and especially when we are lighting candles and attaching our prayers to them right and offering those prayers so that they can be that individual intention and prayer can remain in front of god right and be offered to him even when we physically can't remain in his presence right as we depart we leave our prayers and our attentions our loved ones in that act um in its symbol and it's reflected by that small flicker of a candle right of course every church has the great candle the paschal candle the easter candle consecrated in the in the holy night uh in the easter vigil and the the the paschal candle which is also called the christ candle is a symbol to us of jesus who is as he said the light of the world and when we see all these other other other smaller candles they should remind us of of christ of the light that he brings and allow us to see the way that he pierces the darkness illuminating the mysteries of god and clarifying the darknesses of our hearts um yeah a candle's an essential thing a big deal for catholics so there are many other things you know that could be said about our about our churches but hopefully this is a helpful primer and for people that attend mass every week um hopefully that hopefully these points about the architecture of the church would lead you into a deeper communion with god a greater closeness and a richer understanding of what it is that we're doing when we when we pray together in the holy mass for those of you that support the podcast on patreon thank you we're very grateful uh thanks to thanks to your generosity we've been able to continue to upgrade our technology and improve and improve the weekly episodes and we're looking forward to doing more and more um with the podcast this uh the the retreat that was recently held here at immaculate conception seminary was extraordinary and we hope just the beginning of many good things to come as has been announced um we're going on pilgrimage that's right father and jacob bertrand and father gregory pine are presently scheduled to lead a pilgrimage on the camino this spring so if you're interested in that check it out on the website father jacob bertrand and i have also co-authored a book about the life of saint dominic our founder the founder of the dominican order this august st dominic uh will well we will celebrate this august saint dominic's the anniversary of the in the 800th anniversary of saint dominic's death wow i gotta work that out a little bit as we mark the anniversary father jacob bertrand and i wanted a new way to present saint dominic's life and to celebrate his legacy so we've authored a biography of sorts about him which is available from our sunday visitor you can find links to that on our website godsplaining.org thank you for listening thank you for sharing the podcast thank you for presenting our content to people that you think need to hear us follow us on social media continue to spread the good word about what we're trying to do and most of all thank you for your prayers god bless thanks for listening to god's planning a work of the dominican friars of the province of saint joseph follow us on facebook twitter and instagram leave a review on your podcast app and visit us at godsplaining.org you

Channel: Godsplaining Podcast

Views: 809

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: catholic, dominican friars, theology, philosophy, religion, faith, order of preachers, godsplaining, seekers, Truth, preaching, questions, searching, prayer, meditation, Catholic Church, seminary, catholic priest, dominican friar, opeast

Id: zoGG3EUsZvY

Length: 32min 29sec (1949 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 29 2021