Ep 24 | Lust, Homosexuality, & Transgenderism | Redeeming Truth

[Music] to a very special episode for Timmy truth for the next 90 minutes I am going to grill two dear friends of mine dr. Owen strand and Gavin peacock on the topics of lust transgenderism and homosexuality I asked them questions in this interview like is it a sin to desire a same-sex relationship but not act on it or if Jesus was tempted like we are which the Bible teaches very clearly does that mean he was tempted towards same-sex relationships or to change his gender also I asked him if it's possible to be a gay Christian or if we should be using preferred pronouns as people may request us to an important note here whether or not you agree with their answers I believe we can all agree that it is important for us to grapple with these questions in these issues because the world today is starving for answers and not only that as the church we need to have a clear articulate understanding on these subjects for ourselves and our families so we can lead and love effectively now you may want to jump ahead to certain questions and certain answers and so we have put the time stamps to certain ones below and the information section so scroll down and check out different ones if you want to jump ahead also they have written books on these exact subjects to go along with this interview and so you can go to 10 of those dot-com or amazon.com to access the books that are titled what the Bible says about and then there's three books one is on lust transgenderism and then homosexuality and finally I want to encourage you to share this far and wide to trigger healthy discussion with friends family people in your church so that you as well can know how you should be interacting with those that we may or may not agree with on these very important subjects finally please ensure that every ounce of commenting or discussion is conveyed with a spirit of love the way the Apostle Paul instruction the New Testament that the goal of our teaching or our instruction is always love we want to see people move closer to the truth closer to healthy whole lives before our loving Savior and Lord Jesus Christ so without any further ado let's jump in to the interview when it comes to homosexuality same-sex attraction gender all of this stuff there are going to be people who say you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill this is not a major issue this is secondary or even tertiary doctrine you know let's just focus on the gospel here why are you picking on people is this making a mountain out of a molehill or just explain to us why is this such a huge issue well this is a huge issue because it refers immediately to a fundamental identity as created in the image of God male or female and that's the fundamental identity for any human being add to that then that the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God add to that the fact that being male and female is the foundation of every society a man and woman coming together in marriage producing children the propogates Society add to that then the deep theological meaning Titor to manhood and womanhood that marriage of creation is a picture of God's loving redemption of the bridegroom and the bride that leads all the way to consummation and the marriage supper of the Lamb and all of a sudden you see that being created male or female in the image of God is tied to huge theological realities which is actually as well connected to how we flourish as human beings in society in general so you're linking it all the way back to creation the relationship between God and man that's essentially fractured if someone has the wrong view here is that or at least they're teaching on the relationship between God and man and then man and and one another that is skewed and and somewhat can be fractured in the teaching of those who may not get these topics right is that fair to say I mean can add to that yeah that's exactly right these are not just minor issues that we're talking about in in all three of the books if somebody has an unbroken pattern of sin or if somebody is not having victory over sin let's say then we have a couple major options before us either they're a Christian but they're wandering into confusion and unbelief and they need to repent and turn back and we have a category for that yeah or they are an unbeliever and they do not know the Lord but maybe they think they're a Christian maybe they've always been a part of a church maybe they confess the name of Jesus Christ but they do not truly know the Lord this is true with all three of the issues that we cover in these books if you are enslaved to pornography to lust to sexual interest if you are finding your identity and homosexuality if you are finding your identity and transgenderism there is a very good chance that you do not know the Lord you may know the Lord it's possible and yet you have wandered away from God and you're in a you're in a very dangerous place or it's possible that you do not know the Lord now every Christian costi just one last qualifier yeah a Christian on a daily basis sins and has to repent of their sin but there is a profound difference between the Christian and the non-christian we do not count sin as our friend we count sin as our foe now we still sadly will link up and partner with that foe when we fall when we stray from God as believers so let that be fat but an unbeliever is somebody who actually has sin as their friend in other words they're not fighting sin they're not trying to reject it they're not trying to overcome it they're not fighting at the level of identity thought desire or action it's their being it's who they are so what we're trying to do in part in these three books in addition what both of us have said is we're trying to say yes believers sin but every believer is somebody who by God's magnificent grace through trusting in Jesus Christ as their Savior his death on the cross for our sin is giving us life over the grave through his resurrection is somebody who has sinn now their foe their enemy not their friend okay so point-blank question is being attracted to the same sex ass in a scenario real simple let's say I'm a woman or I'm a guy whatever let's just say I'm a guy and I am living in a heterosexual relationship with my wife I'm married and I'm attracted to men and I've chosen not to live the homosexual life I do not act on those temptations I see a man and I say wow he's attractive you know you know in an old former day that would have been a boyfriend or whatever I mean these are real questions people might get uncomfortable that's the deal you I say I'm not acting on it and and I'm going nope that's not who I am anymore I don't act on those things but gosh she's attractive you are is that sin have I sinned by being attracted to the opposite sex even if I don't act on it same-sex attraction is sinful desire fallen desire is sin desire even as Augustine unpacked all those years ago is the pre behavioral component or aspect of sin and so in the books we go right back to the impulse itself the desire itself and a desire present it's either aimed toward a moral goal or an immoral go so it's not the intensity of the desire or the chosen us of desire of the duration of the desire that dictates whether it's sinful or not it's the morality of it the end of the desire therefore same-sex attraction same-sex desire is always sinful chosen or unchosen and that's the heart of the matter as Jesus that unpacked in Matthew 5 for us in terms of the lustful intent or in order to lust father it's a heart issue Jesus takes that the the Ten Commandments he takes the commandment of of do not commit adultery and he links it to the tenth commandment of covetousness goes for the heart of the matter and the consciousness is sinful whether a a reflexive impulse or a premeditated impulse this is what we get to in the book and this is costly absolutely the key in understanding the doctrine of original sin but also understanding how we sliced in at its root I'm not just pulling out the head of the weed if you like but slaying it at each group then you can have real victory and then you can you can you can apply that to all types of of sin as well yeah is it a sin to be attracted to the opposite sex which some would argue is God's natural order right a man will find women or the opposite sex attractive and needs to control the thought life in that regard there's people it'll argue this and go well I can you could say just you know normally and and faithfully still without cheating on your wife or lusting in your heart that is an attractive woman but if someone said that's an attractive man and they were a man is that sin isn't that the same thing help us navigate and people listening navigate the difference it's just you know that's what people are thinking sure you know that's exactly right that's a great question costi it is fundamentally a sin to lust after any person who is not your spouse of whatever type they are whatever gender whatever sex they are it is not necessarily wrong to find someone whether of your same sex or a different sex an attractive person or let's let's use the term beautiful we know that the Bible lists out numerous individuals who are either handsome or beautiful so we can we can recognize as believers that there's a category for this that is not necessarily wrong on the other hand we also have to recognize that we have sinful hearts and so we're frequently going to have a mingling of interest that is not wrong yeah and then also our heart changing that translating that into lustful desire how often does this happen for all of us it's not that every in every instance when we see somebody who is an attractive person that becomes lustful I'm not making that case but it is the case for many of us that you know an image pops up online let's say we're not searching out pornography okay we're we're searching about I don't know coal mining patterns in Colorado okay or the latest results from Wimbledon or something like this from things that actually used to happen in the known world yeah and an image pops up that we were truly I'm being genuine we're not seeking out well I would say that sometimes we probably dismiss that ignore it and and we do not grant it any power we there's no pull in our heart toward it in a lustful way but sometimes other times sadly even though it's even though it's quick we feel a pulse we feel a pull of lust and that's a moment what Gavin and I are saying is that is a moment whether when it's homosexual certainly in all cases for repentance and that is a moment when it's heterosexual to use those terms we we work with those terms to some degree in the books that's a that's a moment of repentance if that person is not our spouse so there is a category however where a boy or a girl can be interested in the opposite sex we call this complementary interest we actually work all this out in our first book what does the Bible teach about lust okay and so we have teenagers you know being able to understand that the opposite sex is made by God and and then as they develop they're oriented toward marriage and they want marriage we're making plain that's a good desire that's a creational desire that's given by the Lord on the other hand you always have to be careful with even good desires in a fallen world with a fallen heart excellent answers excellent answers there that's super helpful another question for you somebody says hey I'm down with the Bible but not the homosexual exclusion Jesus never taught you know that homosexuality is wrong or he never said those words and this is an argument that people may find even with other subjects as well talk to me and talk to us about the the homosexual exclusion rather like I love the gospel I love Jesus Jesus is okay with my gayness who are you to put a label on me just because some you know debatable authorship there and the other epistles says something Jesus never said I can't be a gay Christian or times have changed etc help us debunks ort of the the homosexuality exclusion from the rest of the Bible and the gospel well Jesus says anyone can come to me of course but he's excluding sin in terms of you must repent of your sin so the question is then is homosexuality sin well a couple of things to say on that cost is that what Jesus never said anything well firstly you know all of the Bible is the Word of God ie look the word of Christ so Jesus words exactly the same weight as Paul's words all the New Testament writers then affirm the creation mandate of male/female the image of God sex then within marriage between one man and one woman alone all the New Testament writers affirm that and Jesus himself whilst he doesn't actually name homosexuality in in Matthew 19 when he's addressing the Pharisees on the issue of of divorce he pulls out Genesis 1:27 have you not heard that from the beginning he could have created them Craig the male and female and then he pulls out Genesis 2:24 and the marriage takes oh Jesus theology like of of manhood womanhood of marriage is the word of the Creator at creation it's that that preformed creation design and that only then allows for sex between one man and one woman in a complimentary marriage and and so if you look at it that way Jesus speaks very clearly on the issue of sexuality and thereby indirectly addresses homosexuality would be a sin awesome something that I want to jump off of now we're talking about Jesus people will say hey wasn't Jesus tempted the Bible says he was tempted like we were and did not sin does that mean that Jesus was tempted with homosexuality same-sex attraction and lust for others but hey he didn't act on it I know you've talked a little bit about same-sex attraction and lust and Owen the tension that's in the heart and because our hearts are sinful but hey Jesus's heart wasn't sinful he was not depraved like us there was no little small you know molecular size corner of sin where he you know just a little one one that's so insignificant it would matter Jesus was tempted just like us was he tempted towards homosexuality and same-sex attraction there's a lot of discussion about this today costiy a lot of people are asking this question when I teach on Christology at the end of in the PhD level here at Midwestern seminary in Kansas City the first thing I say before we even dive into any of the tough issues is this Jesus is both like us and unlike us now that's a little different than the way some folks have heard it frankly but it's vital that we understand that yes Jesus is like us and that he faces what we call external temptations of every kind the temptations we were talking about just a few minutes ago are all before Jesus externally in the known world you see this of course pre-eminently in Matthew 4 1 through 11 where Satan does nothing less than tempt Jesus with power glory kingdoms wealth bread anything Jesus can want Satan is offering to Jesus Jesus however never has internal temptation in other words in in a James 1:13 - 15 cents Jesus never has any internal desire in his own heart lure and entice him to use the language of James in that crucial passage never happens for him that happens for us for the three of us and for everybody watching this right now and by recording later regularly sadly even as believers we still lure and entice ourselves away from what is righteous and godly and holy that never happened for Jesus so Jesus never had pedophilic desire come from within him Jesus never had a desire for bestiality well up from within him Jesus never had same-sex attraction come from within him jesus never had what we call heterosexual lust well up in his heart he had none of these things and here we're diving into more directly Christological matters but I'll say a quick corollary Jesus was impeccable theologians of the Reformed and conservative tradition used to talk a lot more about impeccability than they do some still do it used to be really the the mainline view in other words that it was impossible for Jesus to sin not just that he didn't sin impeccability means that he could not sin mmm that was the mainstream view among most reformed Protestant theologians conservative Protestant theologians we've lost that to some degree in the 20th and 21st centuries we believe and we right that Jesus was impeccable and that means lastly that he experienced far more temptation power than we ever will because he felt the full force of temptation as Danny Burke and Heath Lambert has have pointed out following Charles Hodge and never yielded to it Herrmann bobbing as well never yielded to it he he had the wave crash over him to an even greater degree than you and I do yet he yielded what what a Christ we follow excellent answer amen I think of someone whose timing is always impeccable it's just on time perfect on point when I think of you described Jesus as that it's absolute perfection and the impossibility of his ability to sin okay exciting moment for all of us hunter Reese Hunter you're watching right now you are the first official winner of the trilogy so Christian Focus is gonna get those books to you congratulations you have won all three books I believe you will have them before anybody else will so even somebody who pre-orders and will get the book next week when it comes out hunter those books are gonna be on their way to you so thank you and also I want to jump in and ask some listener questions we're getting hit here like from all angles guys and I'm trying to just stay up and stay focused on your answers but also that everything's read with notifications so let me start amber amber wants to know how do we discuss this with our kids and I'm gonna I'm gonna do a bit of a hybrid question here how do we discuss this with younger kids teenagers and what not but also with teenagers picture at the dinner of a friend or a relative and that teens parents aren't Christians and so there you can imagine the war zone there that they're involved with or going through so just young people in general how do you talk to them what age is appropriate to begin these conversations and what are the key things they should be hitting on when we're trying to educate the next generation about gender lust all of it costing if you were asking the question you drop down a little bit Gavin can handle some how you handle with young kids young kids well to answer what I heard have you questioned their cost it is no it's never too young to start teaching the Bible to them teaching them about who God is who we are as created by him and and kids can get big truths they can amazingly get big truth and they can stump you with big theological questions as well you know you won't that's what I think what they potentially a design choice to confuse their parents but anyway all that to say is you know I think this is a great opportunity to come back to basics and start teaching your children biblical worldview from a belief from a biblical worldview is is key and age appropriately obviously on the issues of sex and sexuality so that your children when they get to the age where other children may be invited round are actually comfortable and talking about these things naturally organically and yeah I mean talk to them it's a great evangelistic opportunity because you're bringing other kids then into your home to hear you easily naturally talk about this God who is God over all of life and and our sexuality and who we are and our identity and our which therefore behave in obedience to him through Christ and it becomes an evangelistic of opportunity so I think in just finish with this some people say well what about my kids at school you know how do we how do they interact when they're going to publish stolen and they come home and say you know my friend Johnny has two mummies for exudes we talk to them and of course you you talk to them and and you say well you know Johnny and his two mummies are all created by God in the image of God and yet and so they have value and dignity and and there's a respect that we show them at the same time week we all fell because of sin and because of sin people's desires have been fractured and and oriented in a wrong way and and don't obey God's pattern for marriage and that's why Johnny has two mummies and not a mommy and a daddy and yet we still love your friend Johnny and the two mummies by treating them as human beings great for the image of God but offering appropriately so what the Bible teaches which is the good and right and true way for their salvation and they're good on this earth and I think those are just good ways and parents will do it differently and be able to kind of connect with their kids if Li but that's the way to kind of teach your kids and help them to engage in the different areas they are with other kids that's really helpful okay big question and it's coming in over and over and over again here Wendy I see you Claire I see you as well guys is it a sin to use somebody's preferred pronoun should we be using somebody's preferred pronoun if somebody was a man now they're identifying as a woman and they insist you Gavin or you Owen have to refer to them as a her and as a sheep god this is I mean it's a war zone in the church and in our culture today people are asking it over and over and over again because this is our reality help us understand should we be doing it and then look I we talk often about many different types of people different types of beliefs and the important thing is how we love people right we want to love them well in the midst of disagreement speak to the tone of how we should approach this conversation because I seen some stuff out there online where guys are they got a real attitude and they're you know they'll say stuff like you know I ain't calling no no you know due to this and and and they're Christians and they've got this kind of chauvinistic macho edge to it do we have to be so aggressive and and you know help us understand what to do and how to do it yeah fundamentally we need to speak the truth and love right Ephesians 4:15 that is our goal with these books we could have turned the burners up in these books with the titles with the writing we could have made it hotter and even and more controversial than the material even is but what we wanted to do was produce teaching resources for the church and what we want to do in these three books is make clear that whatever your sin pattern is every person is is is depraved and far from God and lost whatever your sin pattern is the gospel of Christ's love is not affirming of you and your sin of whatever form it takes it is transforming for you so the gospel comes to all of us first and foremost as a divine no it comes to us as a divine no and only when we receive the divine no meaning that only when we receive the bad news about our our own depravity our own rejection of God our own deserving of the wrath of God eternally consciously exerted by God Himself justly for our sin that's a lot to affirm that's why the way is narrow of Christian faith only when we affirm that no to our sin can we then embrace the yes that is in Jesus Christ the yes of God's dynamic transforming saving renewing regenerating grace that is in Jesus Christ so there's a no in a yes in the gospel on the case of transgenderism and personal identity and specifically personal pronouns this is a hard matter because it shows us how people don't just embrace sin in small quiet little ways but they're making it their very identity and now today in twenty twenty they're calling us to firm that identity in such a context this is challenging and some Christians have handled this in different ways Gavin and I believe and argue in these books in particular the book on transgenderism that it is wrong for us to use personal pronouns that violate God's biological gift of a body in other words if a man is a man and has the body of a man but is claiming the identity of a woman or vice versa it is wrong for us to buy into that falsehood and use those personal pronouns even if we think that we are being loving and doing so even if someone has the desire to be loving what we believe and what we argue from the scripture Deuteronomy 22:5 for example teaches that it's a sin in the Old Covenant law for a man to wear a woman's cloak or vice versa what we believe from Scripture is that we should tell the truth and that means saying a no to somebody who is embracing a sinful identity we need to make that clear in the most loving way we can but in a direct and clear way and then it means calling them to repentance in the name of Jesus Christ as has happened for all of us who were lost and dead in our sin and now found how would you address somebody who says you know they're gonna veer into sort of maybe hermeneutics here but you you mentioned the Old Covenant the law and they'll say hey hey look I ain't under the law no more I'm in the New Covenant and just you know you'll hear people use this argument with tattoos or like well the Old Testament you couldn't do anything to your body like that and help us understand perhaps how that translates over not to identify or not to be you know what I'm saying what I'm asking yeah yeah I'll jump in real quick I know I'm going on a bit here but just in the interest of concision the Old and New Covenant law speak with one voice on bodily identity or what is sometimes called gender identity Deuteronomy 22 teaches that it is a sin for a woman to wear a man's war cloak effectively yeah and so there's a clear indication that you should not blur your personal identity if you have the body of a man your identity is that of a man if you have the body of a woman even if you don't feel this way even if your sin has destabilized your identity or trauma and you background even has destabilized your identity you're a woman now the New Covenant does no change to that the New Covenant upholds that create full principle yeah in 1st Corinthians 11 for example 3 to 16 which has some interesting matters that you have to sort out doctrinally nonetheless the Apostle Paul is abundantly clear he makes no change to that Old Covenant principle God at first Grant 11 he is making clear that a woman must not have the hair length of a man as much as she is able of course and a man must not have long hair like a woman now when preachers or teachers handle that passage today and granted it's a hot potato sure haven't really we're not shying away from hot potatoes here yeah but but when preachers or teachers talk about this they'll say oh that was contextual that was for the first century what we want to be clear about is yes there are some gray areas but actually the Apostle Paul is upholding embracing your bodily identity from the Old Covenant in the New Covenant under apostolic mandate that's very very helpful and and for those of you listening and this is you know insert introducing brand-new hermeneutical principles to you that's just a big fancy word for just how you interpret the Bible that's really important right when we see things spoken about in the New Testament and not broken from the old we're seeing consistency and we're seeing God's order unchanged from the creation account all the way through to where Paul is exhorting the church to operate in marriage in a certain way men women there's no new category or no loosening if you will of those categories well Owen thank you for that that's helpful this is a really good question from Diana Gavin I would love for you to answer this because you and the in these books have shared some real testimonies of people who have been transformed and you've counseled them pastor Lee Diana is asking she's a mental health counselor she's a Christian counselor specifically she says who works in a secular high school I have many who are bisexual transgender etc who've been hurt very hurt by Christians how do I keep my job but also share the truth well that's an increasingly asked question and difficult to maintain in in the workplace as a Christian how you know in an age I think we're Christian freedom freedom of speech freedom of religion even being taken away and I think Christians are being called out on these issues this is these are the hot-button issues where if you speak on them publicly you can lose friends lose a job be I mean to just backpedal just a second is the LGBT Q plus plus plus activist political ideology if you like has convinced the culture that gay is good but the transgender is good and when you convince the culture that it's morally good the culture is convinced of that if you set bit all the love in the world no it's not then you're not good you're a bigger you're unloving so all of a sudden now Christians are afraid because they're afraid of losing their jobs they're afraid of being isolated vilified etc etc and so there's a lot of empathy there with fellow Christians what we want to do these books he strengthened Christians in the in the Word of God see where these foundations come for and actually stand on that now you need biblical wisdom you need wisdom in general to deal with different people in a secular world workplace you know in front of a big group it might not be the right time to address it but a one-on-one discussion with someone it can be the time to address the issues where people are talking to you about their identity issues of sexuality problems let me offer you what the Bible teaches and what I believe is that is the right way ultimately here's the thing is you want people to be saved first that's the key you'll be able to be am in transformation can happen we ultimately with non-christmas don't want to necessarily focus on their homosexuality transmitted by sexuality straight away but that might actually be the hook that we weave that week actually connect Jesus to and so we have to be skillful in bringing their identity issues back to the person of Christ and what he can do for them in terms of saving them and of course you are going to face opposition I just think pass thoroughly we need to have some discernment and we do make this in the book you've got let's say take transgenderism you've got those who experienced transit trans gender dysphoria gender dysphoria and they they believe they are trapped in the wrong body as it were they believe those two sexes but they're trapped in the wrong body there are those who are gender fluid that think that gender is on a spectrum so that's slightly different to the one I think there's two sexes but they're trapped in the wrong body and then you've got the activist that that's really pressing the agenda where there's transgender or homosexuality so there's three different categories here historically you might deal with them slightly differently so all are sinful in it and if I look at the you know the the letter of Jude at the end of Jude there and I'll just read that the Texas it says have mercy on those who doubt so there are some who are having doubts and confusion we need to have mercy on them others you save others by snatching them out the fire these are people that are going down the track and they need to be snatched by the fire so they need to be a a real urgency here maybe a bit more firmness and then two others show mercy with fear hating even the garment stained with flesh these are so entrenched in the lifestyle that you need to go in with mercy again but be very careful you're not drawn into affirming that lifestyle and I think that the church in general has softened on these issues and week even some some areas affirmed that advise on them you know there's no discrepancy between the truth and love and when you get back to pronouns and there I'll finish is is it is unloving and untruthful to actually use the pronouns of of that if they're saying you must use them and I can feel great sympathy for say parents who have a childís and they're thinking they'll run away from me if they don't so they're almost but they're almost holding the parents over a barrel and if you don't like a rebellious teen if you don't run away from home well what you do you show more allegiance to your child or to Christ yeah I mean that much so more allegiance to Christ else we're not loving the child we're not honoring God ya know it's helpful guys I got like just fireball questions to throw at you now as follow-ups to those and when I just say fireballs I just mean hot issues here okay so answer these as delicately but as clearly as you can first though before I do that and I'm not this isn't giant meant to you know drag you all along I just dalton box congrats man you won the books this another giveaway so you're getting the trilogy christian focus is gonna send that your way and i want to answer your question so dalton appreciate your brother he says one more and i'll keep quiet no don't keep quiet keep firing away brother for a young man pursuing a woman in marriage how do you distinguish between lust and healthy sexual desire leading one to do things necessary to marry so this is a really good question i mean your we're all guys and i know when i pursued my wife i didn't i I wasn't you know out to lunch on her looks I was like then she is gorgeous I couldn't wait to marry her I want to look at her every day I still enjoy looking at her every day the how how do we navigate as young men pursuing this woman but not lusting and going too far even into the the fantasy and the excitement of what's to come and staying if you will almost like like the psalmist writes dwelling in the land and cultivating faithfulness that season we're in help me out Owen you're a seminary professor you got guys full of hormones in your classes how do you navigate that with all of us yeah and in Dalton is actually known to me in a good dude so thankful for him it's a good question and it's it's one of those tension points tension areas to be very frank God ordains that men would frankly be drawn to women and women would be drawn to men we know from Genesis - to ground this textually that Adam exclaimed with joy when Eve was brought to him they had not been joined yet in that garden wedding ceremony and yet they were being brought to marriage so I think what we can say is this there is a holy delight that a young man a young woman have in each other that is part of what drives them and leads them to marriage sadly we're in a kind of anti marriage age where young men are encouraged to be goofballs and spend their time doing whatever they want to do and young women are encouraged to be independent and show that they don't need a man and this can cause this is a true of everybody who's single of course but this can cause a situation where there's a kind of stalemate between the sexes and you're in a local church and there's all these eligible young men in their 20s let's say and there's all these eligible young women and the young men are pursuing the young women and the young women don't seem that interested in the young men and what is happening as part of this fallout is that frankly there's a lot of sexual desire that is intended to be expressed in the covenant of marriage do not misunderstand we are not in franchising in these books and in our teaching ministry any form of sexual desire we are saying that sexual desire is only righteous and godly when it is oriented to the covenant of marriage there's a runway though that we have to admit when a young man leaves the sidelines and goes and says I'm gonna follow this this creational call of God and I'm gonna pursue a young woman and seek to win her heart and marriage to the glory of God recognizing that Ephesians 5 has Christ at the end of all things marrying his bride what a beautiful picture of the glory of marriage so the young guy says all right she is godly she had drawn to her now what he shouldn't do there costi is fantasize about her and lust after her and he's gonna have to watch his heart and frankly you know we're in a fallen world he probably is gonna have to confess the sin of lust to God yeah that notwithstanding though he's also got a step up and risk a bit and seek purity and seek to win her heart and in her let's say becoming more and more interested in him is she gonna be possibly tempted to sin yes she is in different ways she's got to keep a close account with God as well but we just we don't want to say that we should be so scared of ever feeling sexual desire for someone that we wouldn't pursue marriage we about is a good thing further for the sexes to be apart never joining together and marriage that more than anything else I can think of is a recipe for lust and God wants us to take this sexual interest and fulfill it in the Covenant of marriage that doesn't solve every problem it doesn't make lust poof sure away like we sometimes hear but it does mean now you have that god-given outlet and means of glorifying him very huffing I think we can do cos t is parents train your children to pursue Christ and train your children to pursue marriage train your children to become husbands and fathers wives and mothers so so when do you speak to a you know a 15 year old boy in and say you know you say what do you do want to do when you get older when does ever a 15 year old boy say nowadays want to go get me a wife and I did some kid yeah they might say want to be a doctor a lawyer and that's not wrong but it's not even on their radar well God's radar from creation or a young woman you know what do you want to do where do you have I'd love to have a husband and grow children in a home and they might say they want to be a you know a doctor again or a sports woman whatever nothing wrong with that but he's not on the road so parents then you must train your children that in those directions then what you have it people get married earlier it will get married earlier then you've got that less of those years this kind of you know 18 to 35 where where people are young men are live in a home in their mom's basement playing video games and lusting after women because they've not actually assumed the role of manhood to go after a woman which is part of of that and that some will be called to singleness and they will be quote for that so we're not saying simplement singleness is simple but the majority of people will get married because that is God's design and finally I would say on that is whoever problem because of the ball of it though is then you've got passive men who don't get up and go after a pursue a woman with purity - at a younger age and then you've got women who were caught in perfectionism like he's not good I don't want him to ticket although these box and of course there is no perfect man does he have the seeds of the biblical man that's what you'd be looking at I'll tell you what you get much more marriages godly marriages there and that would solve to some extent costly marriage that can still be lost you know at this province and unuseful lust so it's funny you guys are maybe a little different generation to me I mean use the word dude for a guy there and one of my strap lines is you know we need the vines not do vines not dudes caste do you see do you see what I'm putting up with you see do you see the the boundaries that had to be surmounted so this is this is this is why I refused to wear a jacket during the interview number one I got to bring a little bit of it the next gen vibe and then also could wheat like yeah the divine so you want Puritans but maybe we could be Puritans who pump iron like we're still we're still some like modern men we got you know we're not all huddled in a with our our overcoat and our candle but yes look at him over there he's looking sharp dapper fella he is square and the guy and we don't talk cuz this is the you know the push back we get we're not talking about let's take manhood freezes oh macho isn't here that every guys gotta be pumped pumping I'm not sure I think you should look after your body or take care of your body okay buddy you have such strengths of physical strength baby but but but being a divine means you're you're a man of God yeah it allows for a variance within that that's fear of of expressions and personalities and interests yes yes caste I'm sorry real fast Gavin said it so well you can't just put a ring on a finger and think that poof biblical manhood or biblical womanhood automatically kicks in that's good you have discipleship in the home if the person is in a Christian home not just incidental discipleship intentional biblical discipleship which Gavin talked about earlier and if the person is from a non-christian background it comes into the church and doesn't have a framework for this and doesn't know how to get married and doesn't know how to be a godly husband or wife and it doesn't know how to pursue a woman and this is going to be a lot of people today and this is gonna be a lot of people in the future I know Kosta you have a thriving ministry in Arizona this you're seeing this now we don't we don't throw stones at let's say Millennials who are coming in in this situation from a divorced background or something like us we don't torch them there may be things generationally that you know they need to be aware of and work on and these sorts of things that's true of every generation but we don't just we don't just throw throw stones at them and say you guys should be getting this first we're teaching them the power of the gospel second weirdest I clean them in Biblical manhood and womanhood and then third and we're doing this right now real time this is real time baby we are calling young men we are calling young men publicly not in an angry way not in a way that makes them feel like they have no value and not in a D gospel lized way but in a real way and the power of Christ were calling them to maturity and to leadership we're calling them to aspire to eldership if God would allow and we're saying for most of them those who are not called a single listener as gavin said a gospel driven first corinthians seven cents which is not which is not self focused singleness that's cultural this is christ focus singleness we are calling those young men and we are saying young men as God blesses and leads you and allows pursue a young woman's heart don't let her language languish and to the young women last thing we are not saying oh your you are great the young men stink they're idiots over there but you got you guys are actually of a higher spiritual order than them and so you have no role in this no we're saying to the young women you have your own challenges you might have your own background that you've faced these sorts and you might not have been trained into Biblical womanhood but look if you're not called to Christ focus singleness not selfish singleness if in a young man seeks your heart you don't have to marry him but you should give this guy a chance and you shouldn't expect perfection and so we pray that in a strong biblical church there will be an utter rejection of cultural values and self driven singleness domore called Christ focused singleness and and then there will be beautiful marriages that result and children that proliferate and fill the sanctuary and God will get praised that he is not currently getting amen amen Oh struck did gavin free oh there you are yeah getting it back to what we talked about sexuality if you destroy the idea of binary sexes you destroy the idea of such a thing as manhood and such a thing as womanhood such a thing as masculinity or femininity because Genesis 1:27 being created in the image of God male or female directly out of that creation of male and female flow roles because he says be fruitful and multiply so come together in a marriage and then he shows that the man is to take a lead and the woman is the helper and so it comes straight from that that key text in Genesis 1:27 flatten that destroy that and then the gates are open and there's no such thing as the things we've even been talking about so the issues that we deal with in these book they tied together in the trilogy and they are so foundational that they lead into all sorts of areas of life excellent thoughts guys I'm gonna keep hitting you with questions here Wendy followed up and Wendy here you you asked us a great question earlier Wendy followed up on because you started going into New Testament writings about hair and whatnot and how it correlates and I know you said it can get a little dicey from the old testament to the new Wendy said so women can't have short hair question mark and and I know she's asking that from a pure heart really wanted to know can you help frame for women in the church today and different hair styles and what have you I mean short haired women my wife we just had our fourth child and you know she cut her hair - I think her shoulders are somewhere because even women when they get pregnant now right they do the the pregnancy cut I mean there's all these cultural things and while long beautiful hair somewhat argue a rock stars these dudes have some good long hair and it's good but point being long hair feminine short hair masculine help us understand as Christians today the different styles and really what Paul's point was and and how that would correlate to you know being a man being a woman help us out yeah you have a lot going on in ancient Corinth the first thing to say contextually is that ancient Corinth is very similar to our context it's a hotbed of androgyny it's a place where there is temple prostitution it's a place where the sexes will present themselves as the opposite sex in prostitution in sexual acts it doesn't even make anybody blush in Corinth in fact in the first century world 2 Corinthian eyes someone meant that you you changed them from a more traditional virtuous person to a person who indulged in sexual depravity without blushing that's Vegas it's Vegas yes it's New York at San Francisco so we sometimes think you know oh the ancient Bible how fun how many couldn't ancient it's no relevance to our luck no ancient Corinth far outpaces many of our modern cities in its debauchery and its wickedness and for this point its androgyny okay so what we need to know is that it is - exactly that church - a church we know from first Corinthians six which I'm up first Corinthians 11 but just five chapters prior the Apostle Paul has said that some of these Corinthian Christians were homosexuals they were sinning against God in all sorts of ways and now they've been washed and justified so we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they they were losing to themselves in depravity okay and it's to that church costiy this is my point it's to this church it's to these men and women that Paul then says in 1st Corinthians 11:15 if a woman has long hair it is her glory so so what Paul is not saying is that if a woman ages and can't have long hair she should feel bad about herself he's not saying that if a woman has chemo treatment or something oh yeah herself he's not saying anything like that he is saying though mark this and this is again this is not the way 1st Corinthians 11 is usually taught and preached so to some degree this may be new to people but Paul is saying that you should not be in drogyn 'us like the folks down at the temple are women you need to present yourself with long hair as much as you can and show that you are a woman to God's glory Gavin was talking about creational order just a minute ago creational design and men you need to show that you're not a woman and you need to not have long hair now people will always throw up Scotland and kilts or various societies where there's lot men have long hair and these sorts of gray area issues will let Scotland be Scotland okay Scotland's are a great country Christian focus is headquartered in Scotland so I'm not throwing darts at Scotland yeah and there are far tougher than I actually my last name is Scottish so house there you go there you go but uh let's say this in conclusion let's say there are gray areas okay but let's say that what God's design is is for us to reject and drogyny and for men and women as much as they are able to present their sex as God made it to show that men are not women and women are not men God is glorified in them and and weren't historically the the women there in those contexts through as a sign of throwing off their femininity and their womanhood and their subjection to what we would believe God is God's order wasn't that some of the reaction it would be in a way today like a woman who is a lesbian who has long hair and goes I'm gonna do a different haircut because that's what lesbians do she wants to identify with someone who may do that or in those areas you had women that were shaving their head who were prostitutes historically in Corinth and otherwise they were throwing off their so no no man in Scotland is wearing a kilt saying I'm gonna throw off my manhood I want to I want to be a woman it's cultural in that sense and in the same way what you're saying is as women and men who are Christians we're not to throw off our our commands from God or our identity in Christ or the way that we should live we don't just throw caution to the wind and give in to whatever we look different and that and and we actually as as talking about training our sons and daughters we actually raise our boys jab jab shorter hair than a woman and we raised our girls as much as they can to have long hair and we show them that manhood is good and womanhood is good somebody's raised a question about Samson the Nazarite vow that Samson takes for example is actually against the grain of a normal Israelite situation so it stands out actually Samson proves the rule it's the exception that exception not the norm yep that makes sense and so you're not yeah that makes really good sense we're to look like men and look like women to the best of our ability and we're not trying to avoid what we are another good question here from Matt I have a friend who is an associate pastor at a church where the leadership wants to say stay silent on these issues out of fear of making people in the church angry what advice would you give him Gavin you're a local pastor and this guy obviously is in a tough situation and and who wants to make people angry I get it who wants to get the email on Monday after you preach on Sunday and people are leaving the church and saying I'm taking my checkbook with me you know all that stuff oh but just because you took a stand help our brothers on the front lines navigate conviction on this issue well I think we need to remember that we follow a savior that they crucified and that the path is the path of the cross for us without necessarily going out to seek controversy you will face opposition on key issues not just from without the church but from within the believing or so-called believing community justice cry stood we need to remember that John the Baptist was beheaded for confronting power with the truth on an issue of sexual immorality so we need to to be realistic and biblically realistic and then we need to recognize that you know we must fear God above man for the sake of man but that's the thing we have so much more man Center than we realize and if there's one thing that this whole situation with cobia this pandemic should bring about in in our seas of fear of the Lord and an understanding that the Lord is way more holy than we realize and it should cause us to tremble and get down on our knees and pray for forgiveness and come back to the Word of God and faithfulness to it because if that happens if we join with Isaiah and say woe is me then we will soon have a greater revelation of the grace of God and maybe we'd see you know an outpouring of the Spirit and and revival in the church so so I would say that we need to get God centered pazley and he starts there with the past doesn't start from the pulpit you know you get the pulpit right that's that's where it's going to flow from and so they thought this associate pastor would need to respectfully in the right way press the issue I would say with his fellow pastors is to say no this isn't something we can ignore and it's like we can't ignore the battle we're geez Marx who Elizabeth Randall Charles wrote this you know in light of Martin Luther's own battles with truth is you ignore it where it rages most you're not really fighting the battle Ready's most obviously gives you of the authority of the word of God which this is an issue of the authority of the word of God is always under attack in any era it was that way from beginning when the serpent whispered did God really say in our biblical wisdom is to discern where God's Word is being undermined an attack most ferociously by Satan in our age and we would affirm hence writing these books is that this is one of the key issues and we must stand on it for the sake of love and for the good of the congregation's and - if the church gets holy on these things as well I see this is a mission moment if the church gets holy on these things as a culture begins to descend more and more into confusion an unviable worldview they're gonna be looking and they're gonna be looking just that's why I hope that there's a lot of non-christians tuning in to this because we want to point people to Christ and a biblical worldview and if it's but we can't do it if we are inconsistent if we're not obeying God's pattern and if you're not doing it with joy because joy must be the top note not angry Christians who who who hate gays and transgender people we are joyful Christians who love the Lord and love all people to draw Christ that they may be saved and no truth man awesome that's helpful let me jump in real quick guys and remind people who are watching if you want to pick up copies of these books they officially release next week I have no shame in doing this as a host of this interview I am plugging the book I'm playing my cards go get it you need it I can't wait for my copies to arrive I was told they would get here in time so I can't hold them up yet they didn't get here because the pandemics ruining everyone's mail I want my books but here's the deal ten of those dot-com the number ten ten of those dot-com have copies available right now and if you buy all three books they'll give you a 33 sent off discount so go to the link in the description get the books don't wait let's keep going cuz I have somebody who has a question and they are from our church Sydney drink water we love you dearly my wife loves you very much you're a wonderful friend of ours Sydney asked this question if you've been using the chosen transgender pronouns for a close relative just to maintain relationship this is very common how would you gracefully bring up the truth or change your stance on the pronouns and the name so that this is gonna be a common question actually because if you what you guys are saying steers people in a new direction now we're into the practical element of hey great truth rah rah awesome you just put the stake in the ground and now we agree well now help me work that out with family that I've worked things out with our ready that we disagree on yeah yeah so I'm on Instagram live as well so fearsome technology synergy here this I've never done this so I'm trying this is this is a this is a tough one because we're going to be in some entrenched patterns when it comes to transgender pronoun usage this isn't an easy question jesus said that he he came to bring a sword he came to divide that's not the Jesus we often talk about by the way we talk about the nice neat and clean Jesus who always uses an inside voice and wears exactly the Dockers khakis that his mom picked out for in the morning but in reality the Jesus of the New Testament and the Jesus of the Bible is it Jesus with fire in his eyes and he's a Jesus who comes and calls undeserving sinners to himself that includes all of us but who nonetheless divides households he divides child from parents he divides cousins from uncles and aunts so on and so forth brother from sister and so we're experiencing that fresh in our generation but in truth this is nothing new this is the way it has always been in following Jesus so even if you're not necessarily talking about the finer points of Christology you have to recognize that Christianity is a whole life system of disciples and it is fundamentally anchored in divine truth what this means for relationships with family members let's say or friends who by a different pronoun usage than their birth sex is that if we have bought the kind of soft evangelical line and past days that all we need to do is love the person love this individual that's what Christian love looks like it looks like affirming them and maybe calling for faith in Jesus but basically affirming them in their sin then we're gonna need to recognize that there's a new day dawning and that biblical Jesus calls us to courage and to truth-telling and this means that the biblical Jesus in the course of this relationship would have us probably say something like this I have been calling you by these pronouns by this name I no longer can do so and you're not saying this in an angry way you're not saying this in a dismissive way you're not trying to win an argument even you might lose this argument okay but you are making very clear that you no longer can do this so someone out there some Christian leader might have said use their use their pronouns do whatever it doesn't even matter and and Gavin and I are saying it absolutely matters you have to use the pronouns that correspond to their birth sex and use that further as an opportunity Gavin talked about this a few minutes ago to share the gospel with this individual and say I am NOT using your preferred pronouns not because I hate you but because I love you I can't affirm you or anyone else or myself in patterns of sin that is fundamentally hateful even if it feels loving so may feel loving in the moment but not be truly loving use this as a gospel opportunity we sometimes one who avoid the hard moments but like Gavin said a minute ago John the Baptist used his moment when Herod was sinning against the Lord to call him to righteous behavior and that is the gospel opportunity that that we don't have necessarily with the figure like Herod we may but we have all around us and we need to not be a you're shirking that's excellent I just I'm on the YouTube stream now I finally found it myself and man I was just sitting here listening to you but also looking here rod I see you brother rod Santiago what do you tell a person whose work place requires the use of preferred pronouns well then now you're getting into an issue of freedom of speech freedom of religion so if you're being forced to use them then we would say you're being forced to do something that's unbiblical and you must make a stand okay you must have to approach your bosses and you'd have I'm just being plain and straight down to the to the nub of the matter sure and maybe a muscles around it but you gotta go and you gotta say you know I I remember there was one instance when when I for instance I was playing for Chelsea Football Club and the manager at the time wanted to all the players to see faith healer who was into spirituality etc etc and he was yeah boss I can't do this he goes against Christian conscience to actually you know endeavor to engaging this practice I mean at that point he respected my Christian beliefs and he didn't fire me or you know sell me on and trade me this person may face a greater cost than I did but but this is why we're saying these are so important because they're bringing Christian up what do you really believe and how far you're willing to go you know we look we like to talk about the the great men of women evolving and you talk about that the losers and the Calvin's and the Spurgeon's and and the aiming car my cause and people are that are they're fantastic and I want to say quite frankly most of you wouldn't stand a chance for those people because you which you weak in the scriptures and not God centered enough and that's not wanting to be hard she's just a reality is that is calling us now to tutor to to man up if you like to get steel in our souls and this is why we want to provide these books to help hey who knows you know unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies you know then great fruit from that it might be the person loses their jebel and there's a great fruit from it that they don't even know of Israel Folau international rugby player for Australia tweeted publicly from first Corinthians six about homosexuality homosexuals one inherit the kingdom but it was in amongst a bunch of other sins there in terms of unrepentant sin and he lost his positions and international rugby player one of the best in the world yeah I saw that at a high level so as we say in that line we must follow okay well Owen real quick I'm gonna turn your livestream on so if you hear some feedback I'm gonna figure out a way to mute it okay but here's what I want to do I want to watch your questions okay and if you're watching Owen --ws livestream on Instagram I'm watching your questions and I'm going back and forth I've got dual monitor here and I think I'm catching my stride now so here we go somebody is asking what if my church is compromising on this issue and man pastoral I'm the interviewer today though I gotta behave myself and just be the host but I see that and I I know what I want to say this is your guys's show here a church is compromising on this they're not changing their stance what would you tell that member of the Big C the Church of God the flock at large what are they supposed to do well I don't want to wind them up like a top and and send them out you know as an army dressed for battle you know with unsuspecting elders or something like this I want them to just speak the truth in love even in their local church context Ephesians 4:15 if that is happening and has happened then frankly I think it's time to find a new church that may sound strong but but if a church is compromising on these issues if a church is teaching people for example that they can be a gay Christian or they can be a transgender Christian if or if a church is simply not really talking about these things if it's not de cycling it's people on these matters if the elders aren't really engaging the issues I don't mean this in an inflammatory angry way I'm sure Gavin would agree with me he's a local church pastor right now we want the fruits of the spirit to come to fruition and these in all situations and yet if a church is either compromising the truth and in franchising let's say gay Christianity or transgender Christianity then I think it's time to find a new church or there's even much to consider if the church simply is not telling the truth the full truth preaching the whole council pastors get too hard text let's say about wives submitting to husbands and and pastors don't preach those texts or pastors get to hard texts about homosexuality or whatever the sin pattern may be and they dodged it we we want to recognize that we only have one life this life is a vapor and life is too short to be linked to a church that that doesn't preach sound doctrine life is too short you need to find you a church as best you can by the grace of God that preaches the whole Council of God not not to get people not to zap people not because it's angry not because it wants to win a political food fight but because it loves God it loves the glory of God and it recognizes that God is glorified what is people obey the whole counsel of God especially filtered through the prism of new covenant faith in the Lord Jesus Christ totally good thank you clear that a church the publicly affirms homosexuality and homosexual marriage is as good and right before God has actually already ceased to be a biblical church it ceased to be a biblical church therefore if you find yourself in that situation you should with respect approach the elders of that church with the Bible in hand point to the Scriptures and if there's no turning from that as Owen said he you must leave it's already to be a biblical Church that's a strong firm good word I'm looking now Owen lost one underscore found is asking on your Instagram how much ought to how much should we be talking about this in the church what if nobody at my church is talking about this should I still even bring it up yes you should if no one is talking about it you may be in that kind of church that we were just talking about again we're not trying to like people like firecrackers here and send them into unsuspecting churches let that be said we want godly church members who try to work out these matters in a godly way so if you're concerned for example about your church's approach on these matters you should set up as much as you can at a time with an elder or a pastor to talk through these things and and get information and figure out why this is happening well let's just pretend let's construct our own scenario and let's say that a church really is dodging these issues then yes I think you should bring it before the elders bring it before the local church many of us are gonna love a Congregationalist form of government and so we're gonna want the whole body to hear about these kind of concerns and that sort of thing and we're going to seek for the church to be preaching the truth and telling the truth about these things you know Gavin and I wrote these books though not because these are 17th Order issues that we think are neato we wrote these books because these issues lust people being drenched in pornography pornography by the way being extremely violent and now incestuous I mean the pornography of today is a far cry from what I read I don't have any experience here personally truthfully from what pornography was even ten twenty years ago young men are drenched in it even young women to a degree are drenched in it homosexuality and transgenderism are the cause before us in the public square that is that is triumphed and celebrated a church doesn't take its its pulpit priorities from the culture it never should but the whole Council of God touches on all the issues that we've ranged in the course of this zoom session and then a church has to see as Gavin said a little bit ago that this is a mission moment this isn't just doctrine that in a Sunday School class once in a while we could talk about this is where the gospel is is most I think in the West being denied the power of Jesus to save and transform a sinner these issues are where the culture is most pressing in so a church in my view that is is failing to even really raise these flags is in some sense failing in preaching the whole Council of God and in being white I'm very blessed that I came on board at a church was planted by every senior pastor Clint Humphrey several years ago now 1314 years ago where these doctrines have been held and taught from the very start the issues of morality but even so we've recognized the the age in which we live in even now so things of escalated so much more over the last 10 years that we'll even ask the question in a membership interview process do you have a problem with with lust and pornography with asking directly and then if let's say it's a guy but there's always that it could be a woman as well say well yes you know I you know I've been looking at pornography well how often is the issue well once a month is that okay then for that person or once every other week is that okay we don't think so we need to we think there needs to be a level whilst recognizing that one's going to be perfect coming into the church but a level of victory in these areas so if you're not talking about it and often people have come from churches where it's not been taught that it's not been spoken up they're not been discipled in sexuality so they kind of tampering and dabbling with your sin and it's become almost okay and they're their church members but they're not really qualified as church members because they live in a dual life and we found that a very good practice so a person says oh yeah I have a bit of an issue strong in the past is bit less now we might just delay that church membership in a while information take some counseling with an L but still we see there is a level of victory because we want zero tolerance on this issue revelations see how much sexual morality is it's mentioned in there as well as the rest of the Bible um need to recognize that as an issue of the purity of the bride Gavin follow-up question for you and we're coming up on I think we're at one hour here and and we're just gonna keep going there's still plenty of people watching on YouTube Instagram Facebook and so here's the deal Gavin I have a personal message for you from a guy named Matt he says up with chels I don't know what that means and so I'm guessing you do but his his question is this how far should Christians be pushing this in the public sphere should we be protesting and lobbying some would make a case for being like Peter calls us to and in his later epistles and in Romans 13 you know more model citizens a little more calm a little more reserved and you know not necessarily going in you know holding up protesting signs and and hollering at our city officials what should we be doing as Christians should we be protesting should we be calling out our politicians and the public sphere and getting more aggressive does that make sense yes I think we need to be aggressive in the terms of convictional I don't think there's anything wrong with conventional Christianity and that demands a certain aggression but that's connected to love as well and so you know we brought up the example of John the Baptist speaking truth to power the gospel itself was a public event you you can't be a Christian in you know in just in your own home never never speaking we're called to be evangelists now some people say well this isn't the gospel what we've already shown that it's very it's linked to the gospel in many ways and it's a is a hook into the gospel and it's actually an issue that affects all areas of life therefore I think we and you you won't be able to if you're a faithful Christian if you seek to pursue godliness you won't be able to help but speak because the culture is pressing it upon you like you guys I said well in my workplace I'm being forced to you strength you gotta speak or you don't speak you go to compromise or you've got to be convictional and therefore I think it is incumbent on us to speak appropriate some might have a different platform to others I speak quite publicly on the issues my primary goal is it is the gospel I speak about man a woman of marriage of sexuality as well and and a little bit about football hey this man I'm sorry this man scored Home & Away mighty man you in Wembley in the mid 90s captain of Chelsea and beat-beat man you with Beckham sitting on the bench that's not why we wanted to co-author but this dude this dude took no prisoners and it wasn't because Beckham was on the bench wouldn't someone argue that ya know he's got a couple of those facts wrong but yet all that to say is appropriately so yes to speak and I think a lot of Christians just to finish on this Kosti who have contacted me and said we've really felt encouraged by your public stance on this Christians so when you speak up wherever you are listening to this and you speak up appropriate so in a public setting it will encourage other Christians around you and Plus up to that on these issues because there's a common grace element in this because the non-christians are going yay I can see a man is a man and I can see a woman who's a woman and they come together and yeah only a man or a woman can make babies and that has been the foundation of our society this other kind of worldview doesn't make sense so there then emailing me or messaging me saying actually what your I'm not Christian but what you're saying there resounds has some truth to it tell me more and now you've got an insight into the gospel really good another question for you guys and one that is gonna shift us into pornography we've really been going on gender homosexuality and I don't want to sell these books short here this these are on mmm multiple issues this isn't just about you know should we use preferred pronouns somebody asked if you're a young adult you're wrestling with pornography what advice would you give to them and if they think they can quit on their own without a support system or filtering software what would you advise a young adult a college guy or any man really any woman - we don't want to limit it to gender who thinks they can conquer pornography on their own and can you conquer pornography on your own per se between you and the Lord privately you can you can develop good habits as a human being in a natural sense you can stop smoking without the power of Christ and we know that's the case there is such a thing as self discipline in these sorts of things but what you cannot do with self control and self discipline is you cannot escape hell and you cannot even more significantly live forever with God in the new heavens and new earth and so these matters these are not simply about living a slightly healthier life with a little Christian spritzer on it with a lime in the cup know these matters are about heaven and hell and so many people around us are being told in various forms that they're broken sexually and so what this means is the gospel gets you out of out of hell but then you live the rest of your life this kind of defeated bedraggled Christian existence two steps forward two steps backwards here's the truth the gospel calls us out of sin by the power of Christ by the power of Christ's cross his death for us his blood shed for us Romans 6:6 the power of sin is broken that means that any person who repents of their sin confesses it to God and turns from it to Jesus Christ in faith is born again and made new that is the power we need over pornography it is still the case though that we can slip into sin and sinful habits as a Christian and so what we need gavin mentioned this a few minutes ago is a zero tolerance policy force in zero tolerance that doesn't mean that we become Christian perfectionists in a John Wesley way or something like this or sure I into higher living victorious consecration Christianity that's not what we mean we don't mean there's a prayer you can pray Gavin and I and if you pray it earnestly enough then your sin will be zapped and you'll be free from conscious sin for the rest of your life again we don't mean any of that we mean that you say for the rest of your life zero tolerance policy to sin sin is my dread mortal enemy it is my foe I hate it I hate the kingdom of darkness I hate Satan I hate hell I am fleeing it the rest of my days when I slip into sin when I fall I am going to freshly repent before God in the name of Jesus Christ by the power of the gospel and I am going to treat sin once more as what it is my dread enemy and I am going to return to Jesus as my friend that's going to mean in practical terms and we talked about this in the book what does the Bible teach about lust we have all sorts of practical steps okay we have FAQ frequently asked questions at the end of the books to help walk through some of these issues passed orally in addition Gavin suggested that it's almost the best part of the books honestly but this is gonna mean last quick words 20 seconds on the clock here that you take any step you can to kill addiction to lust an addiction to pornography you move the computer out of your bedroom you you give your phone to your roommate or your friend or your spouse or whoever at the end of the day if there are places you go that lead to you indulging in sexual sin you don't go there you meet with an elder for accountability every single day you start in the Word of God 20 minutes praying 20 minutes all these sorts of spiritual disciplines which we talked about in our books you take on and you take them all on out of a zero tolerance policy for sin not meaning that you're never going to sin as a Christian but definitely meaning that the power of sin is broken even if the presence of sin remains powerful if you are you know if a person that takes a man comes to me the first thing I want to assess these are you a Christian because if you're you are there's one way or go if you're not you need to be Spooner first I need to be evangelized you need to be discipled or you need to be evangelized is the question if you are a Christian then you need personal accountability first this thing of doing it on your own hasn't served you well so far has it so you need to make yourself accountable to someone not someone who who is necessarily appear someone of maturity so one who's got victory in this area not this not someone who's necessarily struggling with it themselves recognizing we're all sinners accountability is key people world view on sexuality understanding that another thing that's very helpful that I've found very helpful for for people is turning at first impulse and this gets us back to the desire issue when the impulse comes up in of loss in person whether it's invited or not the pretty girl walked past impulse and lust comes out you didn't invite that that was just a reflex in the session in in the moment you must confess turn from it throw yourself upon Christ no he needs forgiving that sin and it's like a related to sport it's like practicing turning with a with a hockey puck or a soccer ball or whatever you do that in training put balls played into turn turn turn so in a match day it's your reflex to turn you don't even think about it and in this way you're severing at its root so that you develop what I would call biblical reflexes on sexuality nowadays we don't have good biblical reflexes but you train yourself in repentance that way in light of the gospel all in the sphere of the gospel if you're if you're a Christian and and that is a way that you target the sin add it through and you smother it with Christ and you get great efficacy then so that one of the things of these book is that our view of sin is is too low like we're way more sinful than we think but the fixed side of that is Christ is way more powerful than people realize if you're a Christian there really is a power in you to change and to turn recognizing that you will all be fighting since for the rest of their lives in some way but but there can be great victories one and I think just a life to live in casting I'm sorry I got a jump in this point on desire that he was just talking about we've touched on it several times that's truly the way you overcome addiction to pornography addiction to lust okay it's not just a stock looking at it it's not just to say this is a bad habit I need to break the way you overcome sexual addiction and lots of people aren't just looking at pornography lots of people are sexual addicts not in a psychological sense in an equally sinful way and the way to defeat it Gavin just talked about it but we've got it we've got a double click on it it's it's not to cut he said this earlier - it's not to cut the weed off at the ground level it's right the way you kill a weed this is extensive agricultural knowledge that I'm displaying dig into the ground and you pull the weed you pull it up by the root that's what you do when you fight sin at the level of desire you have to not just in other words repent of oh I looked at another terrible thing again oh woe is me you have to say Lord I need new desires I I have wicked desires lord I just granted an evil desire power over me once again I did it again Lord look at how look at how wicked my sin is give me the power of a new desire give me a greater hunger and thirst for righteousness and I have for sin we can't eradicate all sin with a prayer like that that's not what Gavin claimed that's not what I'm claimed but that is the prayer that we need to regularly be praying and then we need to expect that God is going to renew our desires and this is true for men and this is true for women women are sexual addicts just as men are and we need to be honest about this and we need to give women help in these areas too men guys if you don't pray you won't have the power from above to do it so we need to pray for it and just encourage people when you do do that when you do follow the counsel that it's given desires do get changed the Lord honors his word yes awesome guys hey I had one major question left but they're telling me we got to wrap it up but people are asking left and right about conversion therapy can you give me 30 seconds Owen conversion therapy what's the view is it biblical and then I've got to announce our three big winners tell everybody where to go to get the books and then you guys asking questions on Owens Instagram the ones I'm seeing we addressed so we'll record it we release it again next week but Owen conversion therapy for one one and 30 seconds or less conversion therapy is based in secular psychology it is based in tactics that are not fundamentally Christian so for example encouraging men to develop sexual attraction to women so what we could say about conversion therapy it has some ends that overlap with what a Christian wants to do for a young man who has let's say been a Malik oy man 1st corinthians 6 9 through 11 he's been an effeminate man we have to recognize that the gospel calls men out of effeminacy and it calls women out of maleness but we also have to say this isn't a matter of training a person to lust after the opposite sex we actually have to do something much deeper and richer and more biblical than conversion therapy we have to disciple and train men as men and women as women in the power of the gospel the books give a lot of material on how we do that as opposed to like a secular process also know they thank you it's gay Christianity that's an oxymoron yep no that's helpful 90 91 minutes in our youtube attendance is growing Owens Instagram is going strong we could probably do this for two more hours and people would keep jumping on but I got to be the bad guy here and wrap it up here's the deal amber Clements first of all thank you for your questions they were so helpful amber Clements Jared Hartfield and Peyton Pierce you three are the big winners we are giving you not only the trilogy but we're also giving you so many books I can't even remember all the titles but Rhian chanting humanity oh and that's the book you just wrote that just came out it's behind you on your your right our left and then the other book which I'm supposed to remember off the top of my head is the grand design you guys wrote that way back when but it's still as relevant as ever right the grand design Riaan chanting humanity and then all three of the trilogy so amber Jared hey there it is amber Jared and Peyton you're getting all five of those copies we're gonna send those to you out from Christian Focus and you can be blessed read them and give them away it's right on time to end this because I think one of my little kids is wrenching on the door it could have been like that Dianna whereas kids come in so thank God for that and amazing wives that keep them all chained during interviews thank you guys for doing this go to ten of those dot-com to get more books that's the number 10 of those com go to Amazon blow up the pre-orders so that retailers see that here's what pre-orders do retailers see that and go oh we should probably carry this book so here's the deal force the retailers to carry the book by pre-ordering get on their radar across the world and let's get equipped on this so we're not kind of blowing with the winds of culture appreciate you guys any final words costiy thank you so much for hosting you did a fantastic job thank you - Christian focus for hosting this live stream we really appreciate the partnership with them in the project thank you so much to my dad for colleague over here great man of God dear friend to me any final words from him nothing to add up up with Chelsea up with Chelsea whatever that means with Chelsea up with Chelsea and we'll do this again guys let's dig in again love you guys thank you all watchin thanks for your questions

Channel: Redeemer Bible Church AZ

Views: 13,115

Keywords: lust homosexuality transgenderism, Jesus, Bible, Redeemer Bible Church, Arizona, Gilbert, Mesa, Bible Church, Truth, Understanding, God, Redeeming Truth, RedeemingTruth Podcast, Costi Hinn, Gavin Peacock, Owen Strachan, Lust, Transgenderism, Homosexuality, The Bible, Gay, Same Sex, Sexuality, pronouns, preferred pronouns, gay, lesbian, can I be a gay Christian, can christians be gay, is lust a sin, what is lust, Can christians be transgender

Id: PDC8oLrnqgA

Length: 93min 10sec (5590 seconds)

Published: Wed May 06 2020