An Interview with Costi Hinn

all right hey everybody grab your seats so we are um I've got your questions coming in on my on my phone here and I've been getting them and riding them down right here and so we've got a we've got a lot hopefully I can read my writing right now so um so thank you by the way for your question this is this is gonna be really interesting I think the first question that a lot of people have I know that I have is what's your relationship with your family now it's a good question first of all these chairs are really comfortable good yep I mean you could just try to stay awake during the Q&A now okay so a couple of things number one my uncle and I haven't talked or seen each other since my grandmother's funeral in 2016 so and while we were there you could tell the relationship was was starting to get fractured on that note and something I didn't mention during the testimony portion but I'm happy to talk about if you have questions on it is I didn't start speaking about this type of thing until last year 2017 I spent 2012 to 2016 being quiet serving my church being told what to do by the elders wisely so and listening should have and I got told to and was you know guided by wiser men and then studying being in seminary so technically even in 2016 uncle Benny knew that I was different he kind of joked with me even the year prior and said when we were at the hospital visiting my grandmother in Florida introducing our son to her knowing that she would pass soon I saw him in the hospital and he said you and I said hi uncle Benny and he said when I get back to California I'm gonna knock a little sense back into that head of yours I know who you've been hanging around with and he was talking about John MacArthur and so and so between the Baptist school the you know conversion the John MacArthur stuff all of that kind of made it almost a bit funny like he was being cordial it was the year after that when I wrote an article called God greed in the prosperity gospel and the one of the photos in the blog had him on it and then that year a couple of months later I wrote on the issue and our church never really we never talked about it like a ton I would just cost he like normal one of the pastors one of the guys grew up there got saved there so slowly people started to ask more and more some people didn't even know that I was a hand or my home my uncle was so it was great it's just normal and then on email social media and a few things people started to ask and take notice so that led to then a bit of a blow-up in the family where in 2017 my uncle called my dad said you need to tell cost to be quiet not to touch a man of God I'm not perfect but I'm still anointed and my office is anointed so if he touches me it's not gonna be good for him my dad called me said please stop things can happen to your family things can happen to you things can happen to the kids I just would not mess with the system don't touch the Lord's anointed and I just kind of said you know I love you guys but you're not my authority the Word of God is I'm gonna keep if I'm asked I'm a pastor now and if I'm asked I'm gonna say something so and before that for a few years I forgot to add this as well on the testimony I lost my title of pastor when I got converted and I became pastor in training so it's kind of like a pledge in a fraternity pastor and training him and so by the time I started speaking again I was the elders had affirmed me and there had been a lot of progress there so very fractured with him with my parents we've started to speak a lot cordially and there were times where we didn't speak very cordially and they strongly disagreed with me my sisters recently and I have had a good conversation they he asked why the Bethel why the Jesus culture stuff why the book different things and I've been able to explain to them that there's two things that I'm just I'm gonna be vocal about and every Christian should the prosperity gospel I said it's a false gospel and uncle Benny's teaching falsely I'm gonna say something and they said we understand and two I said the Christology that Johnson and you guys that your circles teaching is completely heretical and it's not okay you that's not okay so I'm gonna target that I don't hate you guys I don't hate Bill Johnson I don't hate Bethel it is the theology that's damning and leading people away from the gospel so that was a good conversation happened about four weeks ago with them and then my mom interestingly enough she's been hovering around it's it's weird she's asking questions she calls me and wants to talk about tongues and what's essential yeah it's weird the Holy Spirit may be working there obviously I so it's interesting she's thrown away certain books she's not believing certain things anymore and what happened to her in about 2008 she got a tumor in her brain and that messed her up and she thought well I guess I'm not invincible and so that shook her theology she didn't have a way to explain it except that maybe she touched the Lord's anointed but she knew she didn't there was nothing wrong and so that helped a little bit pave the way for when this would all happen so and then my dad and I its cordial he's distance himself from uncle Benny so there's a little more and he's more respectful he says things this is really weird though it's not so much the Holy Spirit's work I think it's just father-son dynamic he says things like I'm so proud of you you know I'm glad you wrote that book I'm like are you hearing they have you read it like dude are we living on the same planet and he's like you know a lot of the stuff you're saying look cost I agree with you and he's said verbatim now I wouldn't do it like that but you know I we agree I agree with you I'm like well why don't you you know stop doing this or stop teaching that help me and he's like listen we all we're all on our own timeline with God and I'm just like come on man so we're still very different but it's not angry and divisive and aggressive and you know you're all going to hell and ruining everything skipping dinner it's measured it's careful and there is distance but there's some conversations happening but so far nothing real definitive and so where my wife and I are always praying lord save them like you saved us make them crazy like repentant and the other way make a statement with their conversion so yeah that's great I'm a question about about the church so here you are getting hired at a church that would hire they would hire you we're from your testimony it sounds like were you even saved when you were hired as a pastor you know and so you said that some things revival has happened at your church so could you talk about that a little bit briefly yes so our church when I got hired was called moment Church moment Church it was only for a moment we were trendy we were in an agency Church plant one of those cool Church plant agencies there were no the elders didn't call us there were no elders there was a polity board of just rich guys who are like we'll fund this it was very attraction 'el seeker driven we just brought in famous people people that were part of secular bands like just cool cool stuff to fill the room the church was primarily Millennials that's why I make a lot of jokes about the v-necks and skinny jeans I dress kind of more like a dad now but I used to be cool like that too and we were just young people doing whatever would be cool and attractive to get people in the door so around the time that I was converted I wouldn't say it was because of me I would say I was a part of this the conversion our teaching pastor was coming to the end of himself going like is this it like is this church we're just gonna sit around and try to make every service bigger than the last one cooler than the last one add more lights add more stuff and and somehow that's gonna get us where we he was getting tired of playing the game and so he goes on study retreat and you know the Lord just takes him to the mat and prayer and he's just praying and asking God for direction comes home around the same time I preached the sermon around the same time this is all one kind of like 60-day 90-day stretch I send the letter to grace to you and her I'm sorry that was sometime after I sent the letter this was all happening around the sermon we start to change the name a bit and we're like we're gonna we're gonna teach the Bible a little more that's why we started actually preaching through John and so then several months later I send a letter grace to you they said hey why don't you come out and you know meet meet a couple of the guys so I never met pastor John at that point I met a couple of the TMS guys they took me out to lunch they grilled me intensely they may I'd shared my whole testimony at this Chinese restaurant and I felt like I was on the witness stand like you know I test yourself to see if you are of the faith I was being tested and there they said hey listen man you need to be biblically baptized if you haven't been already we want to encouraging that and then here's some books and they blessed me with the master's plan for the church strange fire obviously and some other things and I went back and they gave me two copies of the master plan for church said give them one these two senior pastor so I give one to Tony I take one reading through it and it was like just blew it out I mean elders deacons plurality structures every biblical model for the church so we got our school they're kind of schooling there and then the church transformed so looking back it was the Lord using that all to bring me out no doubt but he didn't leave us in our state and that's an important thing to remember as we talk about all this you know people say well how do you know if people are saved or what about this where I'll tell you what I do know is that if people are truly converted they will come out from among them so to speak things change if a church has got the gospel things will it may not be instant but over time progressively it'll grow and it'll change so our church experienced that and now we're Mission Bible Church were like the most conservative Church in the area you know pretty pretty hard lined and except recently we got these socks which are pretty cool we got we got it was I came back from a conference from my seminary and they had socks so a couple of the elders were like we'd like some we'd wear socks we would get church socks so we might be the downgrade has begun were that's hilarious I had a whole question and now I totally lost it all right from that coveting those socks right now get some redeemer let's get some River Bible song Redeemer Bible socks okay let's get on that so I want to transition a little bit I'm gonna jump around yeah so New Apostolic Reformation you just told us about it but how how pervasive is it how how how much is it spread you know and there may be people here tonight who that's the first time they've ever heard of it yeah and so bring bring us into like the big picture like tell us how extensive visit yep I'm getting an email on average a week right now all up from all over the world from pastors leaders and church men and women saying they need help African countries are being assaulted by this it's happening a lot in Europe I'm getting we keep getting bombarded with requests to translate our book into Russian the Ukraine oddly enough is been completely overtaken by New Apostolic Reformation theology another place where it's it's prevalent like I'm talking numero uno number one Australia we've got friends over there and the reason is when you take the Hillsong crowd which Brian Houston Word of Faith we grew up you know friends with them and kind of in all that their their less obviously provocative about it but them and you take the Jesus culture and Bill Johnson crowd and you merge that all together Australia is a breeding ground for this so that's become we get a lot of calls from people there's movements now that have spawned off of the na R as well California has become a very hit place for it were you know all up and down a church just planted in our city that is any are driven Bethel graduate so all over the world South America anywhere that the prosperity gospel has been king for a while and the Word of Faith Movement has been accepted the na R is led in the door because it is just the new version of it talk with one guy recently he's a leader in Latin America he basically said the prosperity gospel is king down here and now all the na our guys are in on it and what's happening is like I described earlier from Bill Johnson and others they're they're living in huge houses they're flying on private planes they're buying mansions they're driving Aston Martins it's creating a revenue stream so you've got false doctrine driving wealthy lifestyles and that combination lets you know something's up so it is global to a degree that I think would we way beyond what most people imagine and then the last thing I'll say on that is example if you've got Bethel cleaning house last week at the devil Ward's I mean there's your evidence right there at the highest levels of Christian music on your radio station every day you you can't get away from it now so the music has become a gateway whereas in one generation past nobody was playing my uncle's worship album on the radio and he has a lot of them you've got tons of CDs nobody's playing I mean it's funny right we would never do that even if he preached a great gospel sermon no one would air that and be like we got a great word from Benny Hinn today listen to this I mean it's it's what Satan does it's what the Bible says he'll do it'll be subtle it'll be a kernel of you know poison in a barrel of truth so that's what is happening with this it's just mainstream now so who would be some of the main leaders the main influencers maybe some of the key locations of the movement so Bill Johnson Northern California obviously Bethel you've got Mike Bickle with I hop though they actually push off the label now of New Apostolic Reformation and that's what we're seeing - the more people have talked about this and made the na r a negative thing the more you'll see the term revivalist so I'm just a revivalist I'm just here to see the kingdom of heaven come to earth I just want to see heaven kiss earth I just want to see the glory come down there's a whole lot of phrases that they've coined that keep them out of that spotlight so Mike Bickle Lou Engel who's rather well-known in California they just had a huge crusade they try to bring the spirit of Azusa back so they did the Azusa now thing at the Coliseum as well and then you've got Todd white who has the dreadlocks he's very popular now lifestyle Christianity and what happened with Todd white is he is a member at Gateway Church in Dallas Texas I went there for a little while while I was at school before leaving that church and the worship leader there is Kari Jobe who you all know I'm sure so Gateway Church someone said oh man I know I'm like ruining all of your playlists so Kari Jobe Robert Morris Todd White's a member there he preaches there and so all this is online I'm not making it up you know you can check into it and what happened is Todd white is raising about 19 million dollars for his new school to teach everyone to do healing and stuff and he got Kenneth Copeland to partner with him to actually help promote him so you've got like verified word of faith heresy mixing in with na R and it's kind of all the same monster now last year unfortunately my brother-in-law and his brother are holding a conference now called the Jesus conference in Orlando and they've my cousin's husband uncle Benny's daughter her husband whose brother is actually my brother-in-law and married my sister a lot of ties and with the family they bought a huge property they're gonna build a huge compound to train people and deploy them and it they're gonna have like a monument to my uncle there and so the Benny Hinn legacy will live on and so you have that another like modern player you remember Ron Reinhardt bunkie anyone remember Reinhardt punky so he's raised up a guy named Daniel kolenda and he's his successor so they go to Africa and they have like 300,000 people at a service and it's all the same stuff so I would say it's Oral Roberts Benny Hinn Kenneth Copeland 2.0 so those are some of the names you'll hear Michael colleano's as my brother-in-law the one that married to Jessica I'm Todd white Lou Engel Bill Johnson and then Mike Bickle and then Patricia King is another one if you've heard of her Cindy Jacobs Rick Joyner those are some more names that are flying around as well and so you said there's there's Redding California there's Orlando there's Dallas are there any other locations where people are going and saying this is where you go to get the anointing yes so Mike Bickle I hops in Missouri in Kansas City so Central and then what I would say too is you have to mix in a little bit of the the Hillsong vibe it's been happening like Carl Lentz and some other guys are playing in that circle now so you add in some New York Flair there and submit some more LA and then there are more than anything thousands of offshoots so take for example in our in our Bible in our conservative world right we've got like we had RC sprawl and we had McArthur and you've got these big names but for every one of them that's not the norm right there's thousands of faithful pastors with churches of a hundred that make up the majority and then there's a couple of guys with really really large ministries and that's great Lord love them they've been helpful that's what this is like so you have these big-name guys but you have thousands of small churches that are doing this and then there who feel there who there who fill the stadiums of these conferences so I would say more than anything it's just everywhere and are they self-publishing or some of the big names of public Christian publishing getting behind them it's a great question so charisma magazine charisma is in Orlando they have a publishing house and then there's Destin the image publishing which is another division so they're publishing those books for those guys another one would be faith words which I've gotten in here's a funny kind of personal story I've never really shared but I've got another book coming out next summer with Zondervan called God greed and the prosperity gospel so I'll share my testimony for six or seven chapters and then teach to offer teaching on the prosperity gospel the manuscript originally got turned down by a publisher called faith words and the reason is they liked it I thought this will be a great book but their lineup of authors are TD jakes Paula Y Joe Louis so the the annual author banquet would be a little awkward with me there and so there are like major publishers faith words published Chuck Swindoll something with him great book but so yes there are major publishers doing that but they are also self-publishing so which Kenneth Copeland has done for years with Kenneth Copeland ministries publishing so can you briefly explain because I think a lot of people here went like the pancake chain yes well the pancake chain is now i hobb if we they do burgers or they changed it back I don't know but yeah so I hop International House of Prayer sorry for now I'm glad you brought that up I needed to find it Mike Bickle is there and they have done a really good job of all the organizations besides Bethel music and Jesus culture getting in the mainstream of music I hops done a really good job of being mainstream they've had Francis Chan they've had some other kind of bigger name guys and they're merging in that crowd and they're pushing off the New Apostolic phraseology so even on their website they say we're not a part of we were not a part of the New Apostolic Reformation we're not aware of this this week and so here's a thing I'll add to that a lot of people will email the people who are upset about the book or just confused they'll say hey how can you say that Bill Johnson teaches that I just checked the website their statement of faith says everything like yours does it's just different with you know the gifts of the Spirit or something he's Orthodox and I always explain to people once again having an Orthodox statement of faith on your website does not mean anything if you're teaching a heretic of Christ that just you know like makes it worse yeah you it's like putting a suit on top of a corpse or you know not showering but wearing your your wedding dress you still smell underneath you're just funny but it's it's that idea that you can look great on the outside but underneath it's all wrong still so that's what's happening I hop has done a great job of being a little more open in Casey and drawing in even some of the Southern Baptists and some of that and then still teaching and doing all the same things just more under the tagline of revivalists and we just want to see the kingdom come that's a big phrase so you talked about Francis Chan coming into the movement a little bit doing so speaking do you see other more mainstream evangelicals kind of working with them and interacting with them yeah you're grilling the event yes and let me preface this to I'm not calling anybody a false teacher or a heretic I want to be very careful so I'm just calling it like it right now you do have I think Matt Chandler is gonna go and preach with some of these guys and you could just google and look at the latest conferences you'll see it you know Chandler still it's Matt Chandler he's still running and gunning from the pulpit good dude you know doing a good job but you know I don't know why just maybe some of these guys think they can reach people in there maybe they're doing it because they're trying to get in and and help I do know that you've got the label that's very popular now reformed charismatic and so a lot of the reformed charismatics are maybe not aware of the Christological heresies that are being taught so they just think well these are kind of the more you know out their charismatic we're more reformed but we're all brothers and so they're just not aware but yeah Chandler would be one I'm there's not too many other ones there's some marginal teachers that are there's some really good teachers that are sharing stages with some marginal teachers but as far as like Bill Johnson at the same I'm not aware maybe some of you are aware of somebody being at the same conference but yeah okay I want to switch gears a little bit to there's a very popular book out there called Jesus calling it's had dozens of different iterations and different forms of it and so can you speak to that book at all can you have you had some I have that was actually one of the books that my mom sent over and said hey with the kids like this and I said no and she said oh why not can you help me understand and I was like yes actually if you turn to the beginning of Jesus calling Sarah young says like I think this is almost verbatim quote I know God gave me or I know God gave the Bible but I yearned for more and she was trying to and she was like really I said yeah mom she's you know channeling her inner Jesus I don't know what she's doing but apparently God told her to get her pen and get ready to write and the last time that happened there were these guys called the apostles and they were writing Scripture so she kind of laughed and then all of a sudden I get a phone call a couple days later she goes cost i she literally says that in the beginning of the book I'm like I know she said I burned all those things I threw them away I'm not that's wrong that's like too much even for me I was like Lord keep working so yeah Sarah Young has become a mainstream author by basically making God's voice sound real like personal for people and it's as though if all of us sat around in a room and took the Book of Psalms and just like made it poetic and messed with it a little bit and then was like you are fairer than any other and I have formed you in your mother's womb and I've called you to greatness am i that sounds like the Psalms or Isaiah or but and just named it different labelled it different anybody can make up poetic stuff that God is saying people do it now with music then nobody says that God told them to do that though people write songs all the time about God's love for us and different things so what Sarah young has done is claim that she's right that God's telling her these things and she's writing them and I think we need to be discerning and very weary of anybody who claims to be writing direct messages from God and another thing Thomas Nelson has had to do some editing on those books and that's concerning because if someone says they're getting messages from God and they're writing them why do you need to edit it better not edit according to the end of Revelation you're messing with revelation 20:2 John said don't take it away so yeah you wouldn't need an editor you wouldn't need much it's God talking so why not and so you you talked about a continuum you know you say well you reform cares you know they're a little more out there and we're not but we're all brothers this whole thing is a continuum and so there's a there's a whole part of this called the spiritual formation movement and so could you speak to that a little bit sure the spiritual formation movement I think is well-intentioned because it longs to have a closer connection with God it wants to be self-reflective it wants to expose one sin it wants to come to grips with the limitations of oneself so the spiritual formation and of itself if you just strip it all down is we people trying to be spiritually formed that's you know great I commend that but where it goes south or a little bit you know off the grid would be the mysticism that comes you get a lot of mysticism and now I'm I'm I'm in contemplative prayer and the continuum ends up at Zozo prayer and the weird stuff that you'll see at Bethel they have rooms for people that with fountains and like new-age music and you sit in there and you find yourself so what started as hey I just want to get quiet and get alone with God and kind of get away from all the noise and shut my phone off because we're in a social media age and I need to reconnect with God and I need to like search my heart and ask God to search my heart and bring all that out so I can be right with him and have a deep connection with God all of that has turned into I'm looking within for some mystical awakening or some revelation so that's what and honestly I've got you know one family member who just released an album and on it is really weird songs that are all just emotive about God in a way that is you know the different types of love you got a gob a fillet oh it's almost eros love it's like you touched me literally like you touched me in I've never been touched and you moved me and you came to me and you're the man of my dreams it's like you like weird stuff that you'd say to the Lord all of that is derived from that mystical a world of spiritual formation and I'm gonna find you and you're gonna find me so again I'm not broad brushing on all of it I'm not knocking there's some great schools I went to one seminary that is famous for its spiritual formation I get all that but it's a content it just goes too far if it's not kept in the boundaries of the Bible people often say don't keep God in a box that was what I heard growing up don't keep don't put God in a box cos t.i God put himself in a box it's the Bible he he laid out the boundaries of his word he said this is how far you go this is your job this is who I am he revealed himself so I think anything outside the boundaries of Scripture we're going down a pretty wild Road so speaking in the Bible you've quoted a couple verses a number of times tonight and so want to know that passage on the greater works that you will do in my name well how do you how do you understand that passage you've transitioned in your understanding of that passage so so help us help us with that all right so I used to believe and was taught and taught that the greater works will you do the nigh is you're gonna do miracles and you're gonna heal people and you're gonna raise the dead well a lot of it and I'm not trying to be funny when I say this is just you when if you get logical about the Bible and you read it and just ask some simple questions you come to realize that the Lord meant something very clear it would just ask some simple questions the text ok greater works will you do the 9 all right can you raise better dead people than Jesus can you raise a more dead person than Jesus okay can you heal but what what healings will you what can you greater works what's greater than raising the dead are you gonna save peep he saved people what are gonna calm storms there greater works is really clear greater works you start asking other questions hmm how long was Jesus's ministry how long three years what was the geographical distance in which Jesus did ministry well Galilee Jerusalem you go on an Israel tour you could hit all those spots in a week that's not a very large region so greater works is not greater in type of works you're not gonna raise better dead people you're not gonna save people greater works is in extent of the gospel your ministry is gonna be longer and who's he talking to Andreas is in direct implications of the text but if he's talking to specifically those guys they were gonna be his witnesses acts 1:8 in Jerusalem Judea Samaria and to the ends of the earth look at us today we're all over the world you talk about greater works more salvations more preaching more preachers longer ministries MacArthur just celebrated 50 years sprawl was 80 when he just went to be with the Lord greater works is greater in extent of gospel ministry it's not more miracle you can't do more than what Jesus did you can't do better than what he did so I came to understand that by doing something that I try to encourage a lot of people to do now is just ask questions of the Bible it's okay kind of rock back and forth and look at that thing and then think a little and rock back again and go what does that mean I don't know it's okay to ask questions of the text because from that we begin to go through basic logic and the Holy Spirit uses all of that to illuminate us and then don't touch the Lord's anointed that one is my favorite I so when when I first got converted my favorite thing to do was I found a love for writing because I started to write and try to figure stuff out and study so I started writing and then I started blogging and eventually I'm like I should I really want to do blogs on these because I think I'm confused people are confused maybe this will help so I did a full study some years back now of touch not the Lord's anointed and I remember just laughing sorry okay let's go through the list touch not the Lord's anointed do my prophets no harm you'll find it in the book of Samuel and the book of Psalms so David says it okay you cannot kill a monarchical King in the lineage of Israel you cannot kill a prophet okay so how does that correlate to I don't want to kill my uncle uh I don't want to assault him so touch not the Lord's anointed do my prophets no harm was a clear command from God not to touch his authoritative leaders either the prophets he had called to be his mouthpiece literally touched them or his when David wouldn't touch saw a literal monarchical King in the lineage of Israel so once I saw that I thought well that makes no sense at all and the only other time that you see the mama bear come out member and and Maul the boys that were making fun of Elijah when they call him Baldy remember that and it was that so I'm not making fun of my uncle's hair I'm not making fun of anybody nobody's making fun of everybody we're just calling out false teaching so once you go through all the what did God mean and what did that mean for that audience at that time you got to go okay so let's say there's a principle which is what some people will come out with well there's still a principle all right so a principle don't be bad-mouthing the Lord's anointed okay let's go over the New Testament what does anointed look like what is a prophet pastor teacher what are the qualifications of an elder go through that list does that match the man no okay what did Paul say did he say to not talk about him or did he say to mark those who caused dissensions what did he do when he was talking to Timothy about certain people are their names in the New Testament of false teachers are their names of those who were preying upon weak women and assaulting the church yes so once you take that full picture and look at it it's laughable to say if John or Yumi are you teaching something false and you know rollin goes no that's not you can't say that you touch not the Lord's anointed no actually that's obeying the New Testament and he would say that I believe that so I got some questions about Jesus culture so do you guys sing or play Hillsong and Jesus culture at your church and if not why if so why we don't we don't and the reason is and I'll give you a pollow up resource I don't wanna leave you all empty-handed so if you go to for the gospel org that's my blog website I just wrote an article a couple weeks ago called why your church should not sing Jesus culture or Bethel music and it you know I'm getting some hate mail for it but overall it's kind of gone viral and I list some reasons in there I'll try to remember them all right now one of them was they preach and teach a cannot at Christ so don't why I even mess with that we don't use my uncle's music we don't we don't use Kenneth Copeland's shows or TV shows or whatever else we don't use I think I don't know if you've heard of Juanita Bynum she was kind of she's a false prophet as type she wears two rings massive pink diamonds one is from Jesus one was from her husband she's kind of the Bride of Christ all that she's a beautiful singer her voice is amazing we don't listen to her we don't play TD jakes his albums he could sing so if you're teaching a false gospel we don't want to sing your music or what you're a part of but other more practical reasons and this would kind of break down a little more in church life is when you look up on the screen and you see that name on the bottom right corner you're you're showing people who wrote that song and where it originated and if it says Jesus Culture of Bethlem music no 500 people in the room looking up the screen just singing their favorite song they look at that it's just affirming that's okay you can sing it we're singing it no big deal and the minute you get up and say well singing the songs but their teaching is off people get confused and they think okay that the names on the screen but so they're not good well then why even why don't want to see their name because that's good now you're causing me to stumble now we're in the Christian Liberty conversation of all the songs not heretical but the teaching and the band at large or the group is well that one's not which is it now people are stumbling you're playing with fire lastly churches have the CC Li licensing you pay royalties for using music and when you use songs and you support that music and you buy that music you're putting money in their pockets to continue to propagate their teaching and their music is a gateway it's one of the most brilliant strategies that they employed better than all past generations to get their material places there's two main strategies one is give everything away for free which joyce meyer does she'll send millions of pamphlets into africa and get her material there before she ever goes so you give away free stuff and people eat up your teaching or great music if you use music you're in because we love music everybody's attached to music so those are some of the baseline reasons I recommend going to the blog reading that article maybe share it with a friend or elder someone or talk with someone if you want to look at it more but that is becoming the number one question now okay just have time for maybe one more question so there are their churches be from what you're talking about now there are churches that are beginning to convert from whatever they were to New Apostolic Reformation speak to an elder who is on an elder team who is seeing this happen at his church help him think through what to do how to respond what would let's say I mean you have your background but let's say that's you yeah you know what what should he do yeah there's a there's a time and a place for those conversations to start and if that were me first place I would begin that conversation is privately in the room with the elders and you know maybe even with a few elders that I trust and I know are discerning maybe see if I've got some sort of consensus are there any other guys seeing this or sensing it so right away weighing the group of men that I'm in unity with in leadership and seeing okay where we at privately I would not recommend we go into Sunday worship with an attitude I don't recommend we create a faction in the congregation I don't recommend that we kind of show ourselves if we get the pulpit or a different elder teaches you know you take that opportunity and we're like in the book of Ephesians and then one elder gets up and like today the sermon is called exposing heresy I mean it's like you know judgment begins with the house of God so open up your Bible he's just like what just happened would no don't blow up a church start with the elder bored privately and so that would be number one I would do that I think we all would want that that's our heart and then from there we got to be objective and clear we're not stone throwing we can't be just we can't be angry and overly emotional even if we're attached and we all are to our churches we love the people we're raising our kids there we've raised our kids there we've given our lives our money our blood sweat tears into what jesus promised to build and I don't know about you but I'll die on that hill jesus promised to build one thing not my nonprofit not a brand the church so I'll die for that and so I get it we're all passionate but in that room you come objectively with clear teaching clear examples get some quotes and go brothers I'm asking you to consider and pray with me about this we need to protect the church and the sheep are dependent on faithful shepherds to be faithful and ultimately the great Shepherd is looking at us we need to do our job so I would appeal to a higher power of the of Christ and then there are the responsibilities to the flock and the precious people of God we have to serve without using too much aggression and you know that's so let's say you've done that and during that time the pastors now called an apostle they have heard you but they don't agree and you're you're on the elder team with them you know then then what begins to happen in your mind yeah ultimately I don't want to be the factious man I don't want to be the guy that's beating my head against the wall that's not moving I don't also want to cause division in that way I think plurality says if if you're the odd man out then you know you you potentially have to pray through removing yourself from that situation and I have said this before to people you will not be able to save people if you're drowning in the water with them that's not how you rescue people you go to the shore and while they're in the rapids heading towards the Falls you're on the shore throwing the rope but you don't jump in with them and keep going down the rapids off the Falls going come on guys I'm gonna save you you get to the shore and you throw the rope so I had one young man in our church I'm he was in an AR church and he was visiting our church and kept saying man what do i do you know I need to tell thee we need I need to save this church I need to help the pastors you know I gave the elders your book and he's very excited and very aggressive he was starting to cause some problems and they were a little frustrated with him and I just told him man listen you're your best move right now is to get out of there come here or go another Bible Church I'm you know what trying to steal people out of churches and just come here get healthy grow and then your friends that are there start reaching out to them from a position of safety so an elder at that point you may be a part of a church that's not a biblical church anymore and you're the odd duck and it's proving to be that your ticklers and the apostates the things that jude warned of and paul warned of and it turns out that you know the lord has opened your eyes and you need to go it's helpful so last question with one minute left you've talked a lot about a book that you've do you do you have anything you want to say about that okay so I'm a terrible salesman and so there's a book at the back table called defining deception and it is I've it's different than the material I've given you it'll take you through the history the background where the New Apostolic Reformation has its heroes like who are the heroes of it you'll recognize maybe some of the names and then it'll analyze and quote all of the teaching for you in a very clear way we wrote the book with there's lots of footnotes so you'll see where we did our work but we use we did not use a bunch of big words it's it's not some academic heady thing that you know the average person is not going to understand it's very clearly written and it'll lead you through a full understanding of what we've called the mystical miracle movement so overall that's what we're calling all of it together and so I the book is short it's easy we deal with a couple of appendices say our appendices say you know what is being slain the spirit so we explained that I called it Mythbusters on a blog I did and it worked people were really helped by it so we put in the book we did with tongues and some other things but overall the books not an argument for the cessation of miracles and sign gifts and all that stuff it is clear about mystical miracle movement now the NA are and it's the book has kind of gotten a lot of reviews on Amazon and a lot of people have been really helped by it they're saying it's a great primer on the na R so I encourage you to pick it up it's like 1695 or something on Amazon our church sent him it do we sell them for like 10 bucks but full disclosure I told John if you know money's an issue or if people don't want to spend money on books there so you guys didn't have him for free I don't know I'm a bad salesman so it was horrible you say that in this at the end of the second yeah whatever money you give towards buying the book just go to our church to cover the cost of them fronting the books if you take them they're just a gift to you from Mission Bibles so so pay for the book that that's translation pay $10 for the book alright that translation bless that church for sending those those things as well thank you so so breakfast is tomorrow morning 7:30 we'll have breakfast out in the in the breezeway so you can grab it come in here grab a seat and that will start at 8 o'clock all right let's have a good night see you later

Channel: Redeemer Bible Church AZ

Views: 87,483

Keywords: Jesus, Bible, Redeemer Bible Church, Arizona, Gilbert, Mesa, Bible Church, Truth, Understanding, God, Costi Hinn, Jon Benzinger, Q&A, NAR, New Apostolic Reformation, Bill Johnson, Bethel, Hillsong

Id: WPLG6qU3hco

Length: 49min 9sec (2949 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 31 2018