Drilling Large Holes in Cast Iron with a Trepan Tool!

hi folks we're at DeBolt machine with mr. Paul DeBolt hello Paul has been a great role model for us in terms of tool and die maker skills and you're making your training plates yeah we're just a tree pan and the hole in them to speed it up and it saves material is that heavy no I'm just getting old [Music] hi folks we are back you might recognize this shop we are at DeBolt machine with mr. Paul D bolt hello how are you doing pretty good pretty good do you haven't seen it we've done some awesome videos here Paul has been a great role model for us in terms of really really those sort of tool and die maker skills and you're making your training plates yeah we're just repaying in the hole and I'm to speed it up and it saves material which you'll see that as soon as we go through all this it's cool though to me because number one you get left with a perfectly good usable slug whether you want to use that or sell it and ironically while it takes a lot of horsepower you're probably able to better dial in the service footage because you're not handling that Center lights right you don't you know it takes a lot less power to run it because it doesn't have that Center that's running real slow on a drill if you think about the chisel point on a drill it's practically not turning it's pushing the metal out of the way on a tree pan you don't have that but you but you do have and you've got a positive cut it doesn't take as much power as a regular drill for the size of the drill so you can build drill big holes and save all that material out of the center the company I worked for many years ago had these tree pan drills and they thought it was a great idea because they took the cores out and made other parts out of them you know which you can see well wow they're not blown away all those chips and then what you got a scrape out of the machine you know yeah you know yeah and the bigger the problem with them though is if you tried to use it in a CNC machine the slug is marooned in the drill so you just couldn't if if it indexes around on the turret you got that slug bouncing around and it drill and you don't want to do that because it could fall out of there at any time so it doesn't lend itself to CNC machining very handy well I'll still stay though for the rest of the video well and what did what they did though they took them and specialized turret lathes big turbo yeah and put different size drills on there and they would run production just drilling the whole prepare it for the CNC machines so then they take those slugs and stack them over where they're gonna do different parts and make those other parts out of the slugs and then take those prepared parts onto the machines much like I think you buy prepared aluminum blocks or you can buy it with a dovetail scuttle same thing only the lathe you know we're preparing it because we're punching holes in there and all of them have the holes and you know that's a time-consuming process and a normal drill of course it you can buy nice drills these days it can drill a big hole and blow everything into chips but like you say you have the disposal problem even if you take the cores and just want to scrap them the value of them is so much greater it gets there anything worse oh yeah yeah and most of the material they were cutting at that time was forty one forty and forty three forty and you're talking about expensive stuff ready throwing down a trash can so that that's how they got started and you know we got a couple projects in here that we needed a big hole win and if you think about well I'm going to drill a two inch hole where a inch and a half hole in here and I have to bore it out to four inches how much time does that take boring it's difficult special immanuel machine chips are going everywhere to get on yeah they burn you if you can get close to the finish sighs we just happen to have several parts in here this is a three and three-quarter drill and basically I know it's a metric size but it's close to three and three-quarter the inside core is two and a quarter is what you ended up there so you're in essence when you drill with this thing you're drilling into material out so if you think about taking an inch off the diameter of your of the part you're talking about a lot of horsepower to do that while this is positive insert I think we talked about that when we talk about insert some time ago if you use positive inserts they're a lot less horsepower intensive these two inserts actually overlap slightly so they're not exactly cutting an inch by themselves you know half inch on each side but they overlap a little bit they're like a if you look at them it looks like a duck yes that's right it's just a positive W insert they come in all kinds of configurations is w the same as you have a no no okay it's it's slightly different than that I suspect and it's the grades are slightly different probably because of the purpose that you're using it for I've had some carbide drills in here to have the inserts all the way across and blow the whole hole and the center insert always gets punished because of the surface footage is so poor on it and sometimes that Center insert is different it's a different grade for that reason you don't have that problem here this particular drill has inserts built into it you can see there's a cartridge here that has screw in here this one in particular has a little adjustment screw on the bottom here okay so you can move this up and down loosen this up this hole is a little loose and you can move this up and down so you don't have one of them contacting ahead of you so they need to contact at the same time and then this one here has got two screws in it right here and it doesn't have an adjustment on it it just stays static all the time now they're on inserts here the inserts are in inserts so if you blow one of these and it tears this thing up you can take this out and the shank is preserved is that a purchased product or did you make the assembly well the this piece I made this is this is Sam Bix okay these are Sam vixen what and what they did at a company I worked they made these big 8-inch you know and and they'll cut your drill six feet deep or more what they did is we made heads about that long okay and the head is what goes bad you can see on this particular one there's a notch cut here it's a chip clearance notch and you can see where the chips have been floating around here and wearing that right there yep this would be all the way up here so it's not an eighth of an inch wore off of that one after a while they wear out so then they had a couple bolts in here and a tongue on the inside so you could pop that on there put the bolts on and you make the shanks any length you want sure and take the head off and it goes bad throw it away put another one on there just keep going because the shank doesn't get anywhere on it sometimes they get some chip there angle yeah that but you know you just put this up on the middle and put these two chip gullets in there and put the head on there and you can make them any size you want and all you have to do what they did was just buy the cartridges and the inserts off of Sam Fisher make them any size they want to adapt them any size and of course that's in a tool room we made the heads and the shanks yep say anything they wanted and you're when you set this up I would assume you care a lot about rigidity but you're not necessarily using this to get its self incredible accuracy if you need accuracy you'd come in and in for it to finish size that's right because this thing is still gonna move on you so yeah yeah this is this one you know won't cut a real real accurate hole like some of the drills you can buy them and get a really nice hole it's not designed for that it's designed to get a big a hole in there a hurry is what it's my now my machine is a 10 horse and when I drill some of the Steel's I do with it I can't achieve optimum surface speed because I don't have enough horsepower and a high enough arrange the power band is not up in the higher range so it wants a stall a machine so I can't have to stay down a low gear which I take it up into a maximum rpm and that low gear which enabled this is a real fine balancing act on my particular machine because I don't have quite the horsepower necessary to drive one of these right but what we wanted to achieve and then and what you want to do was carbide is is is get the chips to break up okay so fortunately for us and we I talked to Sam think about this they told me to use these inserts because we want to break the chips up with a minimal amount of feed this thing will feed a lot faster than I can feed it because I don't have the horsepower to drive it not an uncommon predicament though yeah you kind of joke but you buy the biggest machine you can afford and then you the first thing you want to do is run a tool that's more important designed for even a larger machine right yeah that's right yeah you know you want to cheat right now that's right you want to cheat and you know what you want to do is come up with creative ideas to maximise the effort of any equipment personality of God and that's what this thing does as far as drilling holes you get a big hole in a hurry so what kind of sort of rpms are service footage in do you know while this reps this this particular machine I can only run 250 rpm ok and we're running at 5,000 speed v alpha R EV yeah that's not bad it's not bad now you're probably saying this thing will run about 2 or 3 times that if you want to and you know of course I have some other problems too then that there that are a problem with this you should have as much coolant as you can get mainly because the coolant runs in here runs through the center and then comes out and forces the tips out yeah it's literally like an oil surge like that's right yeah the more pressure you've gotten in there on the coolant the faster the chips come out the faster you can drill a hole and the less pressure there is on the inserts and all 9u9 you're it's the same same thing with any any carbide tool well if you think about you're making an internal one-inch cut at five thousand feet per Rev yeah that entity riyals got to go somewhere yeah it's quite a get out of there in a hurry and you can see you know this is not that thick and even right here man it's it's there's nothing there yeah you know so you think well there can't be a whole lot of cutting pressure on this with just that that thin like that you get in there and you start pushing on there doing this you know it's it's gonna curl the chips here now we're going to be running iron okay yeah when it when it when it ships it breaks pretty good this is this is a class 40 which is a better iron okay but the steel would be the same way it actually makes chips very similar to anything you would see what turning okay okay but you've got it so I think about your traditional OD turning you need to have an engagement or death the cut relative to the nose breaker radius but here that wouldn't be yeah you've got a radius actually in a point up here right okay high spot okay but you know it doesn't have and it's got radius is on the tip just like you were saying it looks a lot like a normal insert I mean out here on this this tip they got a 32nd radius on there and so it looks like a regular insert and when you when you run these it usually cuts let's see I don't know I changed it turn these around but you know it's cut in the full with this thing so you know nice thing about that you know we've talked about using of engines using bigger inserts and smaller inserts and why use smaller ones instead of bigger ones because you're wasting a cutting edge these are utilizing the whole cutting edge you're not yeah there's fine that that three it looks like a 3/8 inch I see I mean yeah that's right yeah you know and like I say you know you you you can drill holes really quickly now you know I'm not running an optimum speed uh-huh because of the horsepower it's all I can say about that I mean it should run up now we're running iron which would be running slower it should probably run about 400 rpm something like that and like I say you could probably run 15,000 yeah you know it'll it'll go through there like it's nothing you think wow it's not no but that's what makes you notice how much pressure you have to put on a regular drill you know you take even knees these are allied yep sure you know this this point here man it's it's it's it's not turning there you know that I mean it's just not material that's right and it then you don't have that to issue and man it takes a lot less power to do that yeah but like we're talking about hearing it don't you're talking about a real wide cut yeah yeah yeah there's no way to get around I mean you can make this thinner I don't know how because what if you may be smaller I don't know how the chips would escape sure sure there's a balance if you're looking for something fun to do we've got PDF links to the pot I think that 2015 Sandvik catalogs there are processes and tools that you they humbly said you've probably never heard of like bar peeling thread whirling trees and drilling and these are some of these services are stock tools they're just yeah what would you think of it it's not a normal one inch stick tool yeah that's right I just happen to know about this and we wanted to increase the speed at which we drill holes I love it this is what we got now this normally comes with a straight shank okay big straight shank so matter of fact and I made this piece to go on here to adapt at my tail stock and what it does there's a keyway on the bottom of the quill it slides over the quill and then there's a keyway and there's just a couple set screws here okay good normally you would actually run this on your cross slide no III don't know but Sandvik is sells this as a product to run on the cross line or on tail style and they use I think these are designed for a turret lathe a big ol okay got it yeah cuz they just slide straight in now you could put it on a CNC machine but you have to stop the machine take your slug out I made this to fit on the tail stock so it slides on air tightens the set screws up and we back this up so this is up against the face of the stock so it stays square and you can see that you you know you could look at that and say well boy that ain't much holding it on there well it for it doesn't have to because it's thrusting towards the tail stock it's not wanting to go bouncing around or anything like that and you don't want it doing that for sure on any drill anyway so it's - it thrusts this way or actually this way but so there's not much there to hold it on now we put a hole in here and normally they have a hole in the side of this for the coolant and a quart and there's a coolant whole way down in the bottom there that comes out about the center of it goes through the center and comes around and goes out the sides and what we have is what we used to call fence here what this does is this goes on the chuck okay so when you break through on the inside this is up against the back of the part so it pushes a slug into the drill yeah so when you back the drill out the drill carries the slug out of there instead of having the slug stuck in the bark right right we'll put this up on there and put the quick disconnect on I wanted to replicate I don't have a quick disconnect for this the same system I don't know how familiar you are with with the POW ID system okay yeah you know they got a fitting on here and they have quick disconnects for that and then they got a bar in here so you can use it in a lathe or or drill press you know of course this isn't a drill press is not very common on these anymore but I wanted to use their system because I had some of their drills and I thought well I could use the same quick disconnect system as theirs is but I'm not looking to have a turnin but I don't know just so you just sort clear though this is effectively a poor-man's through spool no coolant where you can have a rotating tool that delivers that's a rotate yeah sealed Union that allows you to pull yeah yeah you know I find these a lot more efficient than a regular drill you got more clearance here you know you can send these back and get in ground or you grind them yourself yeah of course you get it you can see this one's a lot bigger and get various sizes yeah what's actually a cool story they call them ta drills which was a quote-unquote revolutionary idea when you were traditionally using solid high speed steel shank drills and they call them ta drills because it's a throwaway yeah you could have it reground but you can also just treat it's kind of like the same thing where you have a replaceable head here you just have to deal with replacing or soften out that tip yeah well before we started getting these where I used to work they took these and they would grind this until it almost gets down to here and 1/8 roboy yeah but you know these come in a straight shank like this and a spiral shank depending on what kind of material you're drawing it and of course different grades of yes sir you can behind this is high speed you can buy carbide tips for them and everything if they got cobalt coatings oh yeah all kinds of coatings I mean and they're nice I think they're better than a regular high speed drill you know people say well you can't grind it but so many people can't grind anyway you know it's just and then those tips they last a long time somebody's got a garage shop they'll never wear the tip out right so what I did want this machine is I made some modifications here what we're gonna use is the power feed to run our drill when we get the parts set up here and you can see these two tails on here put a couple bolts in here in here put these two tails and I got three holes in here so when we take our tail stock and push it up in here I got a bridge I put back here and I just got a couple of bolts stuck in here I know I don't even bolt them up so what it does is it pulls the tail stock like that so you can go backwards and forwards now what I do I've got a piece here in the center with a with a radius on here so it's not pushing in one spot to try to keep it centered or so it centers it up self centering that way this way when we come up here to start drilling all I have to do is engage the feed and it's drilling and now what I do here is I tighten these up a little bit so I don't have this thing vibrating on the way so we'll tighten this bolt up and this up we don't want to tighten it up real tight it's a real fine yeah you just kind of go where that seems pretty good enough and if it vibrates you go well maybe I'll tighten it a little bit yeah and take the vibration out and the way you go and then all you do is back are out and so if you're watching this channel and you've never even seen how a manual laborer works it's actually really cool because you've got a motor that turns that Chuck that much you probably knew but in this gearbox you've got gearing that comes out onto these shafts down here and you can control this manually but you can also set the dials that control the feed rate of this cross slide relative to the rotation speed of the chuck you see this is sticking out a little bit here that's pretty much where all we got sticking in that grill and I know that's not much but like I said we got the thrust is this way so we don't have to worry about we just have to make sure we keep it stable now I'll put a groove in the face of the park start the drill with a face crew Oh interesting to give it a yeah get a start point okay and that's pretty much where we're at so we'll move this out of the way temporarily get in here is that heavy no I'm just getting old ah now you can see here is where the keyway is underneath here okay then we just slide it on look at that okay so you buy this part you made this part that's right that's right I made it to adapt there now you can buy these in different lengths different diameters of course I think that one of them is about 1,200 bucks which you say well that might be a little bit more than I want to spend but when you start using one of them you go oh if I had to bore all that out you go this is too damn slow that's taken too long have you had any problems with this either the body or the cartridge inserts no cuz you've had this for quite a few years right yeah that's right I've had this might even be ten years seven years something like that if this was a Wyler or something expensive at monarch or something yeah I'm not sure that I'd want to drill holes in the carries to modify it to do this no no I would be calling Wyler or whoever it happened to be monarch or whoever happened to be and say hey do you have a something I can throw on here that's it that just goes on the tool post or something to that effect that I can use to run this drill without doing this modification and they would probably come up with something of course it wouldn't be cheap this is cheap and of course some people will say I'm cheap so then we put this in here and we put the quick disconnect in here of course typically you use this for putting your stops in so we'll bring the billet up against that and what happens to see you don't have any weight on the drill when it's cutting till it breaks through not to build it off so you don't have that strain on the horn I found it on the drill either so we'll get this crane here [Music] now that's what I'm talking about Paul for Joel action baby then we'll put up our fancy indicating system indicated in because we'd like to have it as true as possible that way we don't have to do so much turning I still love that systems that's so much slicker than the round with them yeah you know if you if you use the magnetic base and then you you you've done this you go you know and I've seen people that put two indicators on here they'll have one to indicate the OD and another one that's got the face this way and it's got the needle this way that hook system yeah so you can indicate the face without taking the stupid indicators on and off and you go you know this is I know somebody's selling magnetic basses wouldn't like that and you know I would say magnetic base is day you can't get away from them em either there's no uses for them you just can't they're just but this you know this is so it's it's simplicity you know you really want to keep thinking that stuff as simple as possible because if you don't it just there's already injected complexity when you're making parts a lot of times anyway you don't want to put more complexity on top of it so trying to keep everything simple [Music] that was the grooming tool we just used the other thing is I put this guarding on their shirt try to keep the coolant rate coming on the floor here so what we do is pull this this way might need to groove it a little bit more [Music] which is where I lose particularly shame it's nice to have both fire me alone the paint if your experience I you listen to the scene get a feel for what it was you don't want to stall it or anything you had a wood fire game you go drag her down it's hard to hear anything but there's other machines in the shop running this to the car to get a feel for what it's a real tip yeah you can see actually a pretty big impressively large chip on its it has the shape of that internality head good oh that's awesome if you're cutting steel they look like a little fan that's really cool you can get an idea that was cutting that on both sides you can see one of the width of the cuts pretty big that bar looks a lot longer when you see that hole to drill folks all the way in it yeah now I heard the other insert does I start to break through there yeah look at that so just like that you got a three and three-quarter hold see you can see him the chips come out look at that we pull it out oh yeah just like that we have a free piece of material yes actually not like yes right of course you can see you see if it was six feet long and four inches in diameter you're talking about a lot of material yeah well looking you talked about a basic you know term of running a machine shop they use the word ROI return on investment yeah boy you got a piece of material there and Paul how much time you think a one-inch drill which still cost money yeah and then you got 20 30 minutes sick in a foreign bar in there and yeah where you get this one you look out you've got great chip control you don't have all them big spirals and all that stuff to deal with of course you could use a spade drill and get good chip results it just takes a lot more horsepower to drive one of them right then it would be going slow of course you can like what we talked about a little earlier we you can get carbide ones but they're expensive when you're speed drills still only going to be inch inch and a half max and then you got to bore the rest yeah you know I mean it's I really like this system because it preserves the material just like we're talking about you know it's fast if you ask Sam but can we do that they say maybe you know you have to to ascertain what your machine is capable of doing and I knew when I bought this drill bit then you know once I modify this you are not sending it back to San yak you know right won't will it work well the machine have enough horsepower again well I think it's one of those experience based things where you go I think it's right on the edge but I think we can make it work we'll make it work so that's in essence what I did was you know well we'll just adapt a few things and like I said we put the tails on there because we want it you can't get if you don't want it you don't want a hand feed this you want a nice even power feed and if you use insert drills they work really nice under really tightly controlled conditions especially carbide stuff it's not like a high if you don't have any control high-speed drill is real forgiving well it's interesting we had a set of setting up a lathe and I miss I screwed up a couple weeks ago and I had my y-axis about 15,000 in line I didn't realize it on our house late and I drilled the first hole with the carbide drill it worked fine for months to date then rose it had changed and just snap that drill me they have no tolerance now there's no positional and issue offer a center line but that carbide likes that smooth oh yeah you know it wants everything to be just so-so to where and when it when it is that way they're beautiful many just work so perfect a high-speed drill it'll it'll sustain some pre and that you know that that design is I think over a hug years old more than 100 years old so you wouldn't expect I mean it's the cast iron is a freer cutting material compared to the 4140 oh yeah so that's gonna perform the horny pushes this machine harder that's right it pushes the Machine harder but the nice thing is you know you Sandvik cells inserts these are general-purpose inserts they sew inserts exactly I mean I'm not using specific inserts for cast iron which they probably you might be able to push it a little harder as far as speed goes even with the lower horsepower if you buy stuff that's designed exactly for the materia cutting and coppers would have bought inserts for this material that material they have in your your box and they have them written on there what the material it's designed for and of course you can cheat and use the wrong insert if you run out or something like that it's just you have to make adjustments and the feet or something sometimes the chips won't break right and you don't want you want those chips to break out and I'll be you don't want those streams coming out of here because it'll jam this thing up no oh yeah that's our yeah look at that and you could see you know all the chips at me I mean that's just throwing that hole and of course know how much more chips you would have had had you bored it drilled it out and bored all that all out and throw to throw it away just what came out as a slug yeah we use these for Sully's for tramming rings that's what this bill is for and what we do is the tree pan that hole out there and we machine and put nice radiuses on it so you can lay it on your milling machine table and run your indicator around here without skipping all over every weird sport type Mills well throw a link in the description to Paul's website where you can buy those and if you haven't seen a tour of his shop here's a quick sneak peek but we actually had the chance to do a full tour of Paul shop and see how he runs it which is really a wealth of knowledge so Paul as always thank you very much I appreciate it not a problem John come by anytime hope you folks learn something hope you enjoy take care see you soon [Music]

Channel: NYC CNC

Views: 142,494

Keywords: tormach, fusion 360, how to, cnc, machine shop, nyc cnc, DIY, machining, milling, cnc machining, cnc milling, learn cnc, john saunders, manufacturing entrepreneurship, provencut, chip rag, CAM toolpaths, workholding techniques, fixturing, manual machining, paul debolt, debolt machine, trepannning holes, tramming ring, sandvik, manual lathe, turning class 40 iron, drilling holes, manufacturing, entrepreneurship

Id: 2HEruBtaC1c

Length: 33min 4sec (1984 seconds)

Published: Wed May 13 2020