Doom's Lost Official RPGs | Punching Weight | SSFF

hey i'm derek it's me derek and welcome to stop skeletons and fighting doom is full stop one of the most important games listen if you don't know what doom is at this point on this channel there is nothing else i can do for you i'm running out of ways to write introductions to doom videos it's what else can i say it's doom it's awesome it's probably the most ported community supported and re-released game in history i mean doom is eternal but is it because what if i told you that there was an entire side series of original doom games not only made by its software but john carmack himself and they're just gone unless you know where to look doom rpg is among the very last officially developed doom games that you cannot get on your steamboat daddy chad phil spencer's infinite company credit card has not made these games magically appear on game pass not even the night divers and limited runsers of the world have rescued doom rpg from the deepest pits of d-listed hell now i'm just talking about doom rpg talking about all five of the full-sized id software rpgs that were made for cell phones in the mid to late 2000s not only two doom rpgs little wolfenstein rpg and two games set in a completely original ip and if not for a random ds port and someone forgetting to unplug a dusty hard drive that is somehow still spinning deep in the bowels of its software this entire series would be completely delisted and it's a shame because let me tell you it's classic shooters translate shockingly well to an rpg meaning they are perfect for this show we call punching weight where we celebrate the weird ambitious and unnecessary doom 64 finally got its overdue appreciation now it is time for doom rpg to make a comeback and we missed our requisite doom episode last year so charge up your 2000's flip phones with your early model ipods it's time to rip and tear and roll for initiative this is punching weight but first i've been thinking about death crimson for the sega saturn you know the only thing objectively better than doom more specifically i've been thinking about the mythical japanese death saturns which are blessed through the magic of superglue to only play death crimson so i popped onto bayi which lets you buy anything from japan all in one convenient place you can search yahoo japan auction mercari rakuten rakuma and more for whatever your heart desires unfortunately the legend of the death saturn remains elusive but i did find tons of listings for death crimsons saturns light guns and yes even superglue buy vice products from japanese stores gets them shipped to buyers warehouses and then from there is prepared for international shipping sent to you to use my link in the description below to sign up now you get 2 000 yen off your first purchase it's the best way to experience death crimson outside of japan there's a pool for your website you welcome by e sign up for bahi using the link below 2 000 yen off your first purchase thanks to bahi for sponsoring this part of the video [Music] so what the hell on earth is a doom rpg well i'm lumping all five games together in the interest of simplicity and because all five games all play very similarly and all run on the same engine that was created for the first doom rpg doom rpg was originally a cell phone game developed by fountainhead entertainment and its software and published by jamdat way back in 2005 which sounds old but it's even older than you think this was before smartphones even before you could get games on an ipod the world ran on java despite the best efforts from nokia a rare short-haired john romero and qualcomm [Music] even for a tech warlock like john carmack a first person shooter just wasn't possible on cell phones at the time the solution is so obvious but also brilliant slow paced turn-based combat instead of fast-paced real-time action and if you're gonna go turn-based why not make it an rpg now maybe i'm crazy maybe i am but that doesn't sound so ridiculous so it's no surprise that doom translates very well to an rpg i mean you're still shooting hordes of monsters across sprawling levels getting key cards finding secrets all while scrounging for ammo and health i mean this is doom except movement and attacking and using items all count as a turn items can give you status effects that make battles easier you level up as you progress maps are mainly corridor based lacking verticality and more dynamic level design looking more like wolf 3d maps but doom rpg still manages a lot of fun twists on a classic doom formula since this is an rpg monsters come in different levels of strength so we get things like yellow khaka demons blue arch files and green imps which here are called implings so now we know what a mature rated splatoon might look like your melee weapon is an axe instead of a chainsaw which sounds downright blasphemous but they make up for it with a fire extinguisher that's super effective against lost souls plus the wolfenstein dogs made it to mars somehow and you can make up your pets you can't pet the dogs but you can hold them like chain guns eat lead demons the story and yes there actually is a story here you gotta have a story in an rpg is the classic tale of literally evil corporate scientists are running amok with fantasy evil demonic hellspawn and it's up to the doomguy to stop them both again we are on a uac colony on mars however doom rpg's story adopts the doom 3 approach to the demonic invasion dealing with the demons just as they arrive from hell instead of doomguy showing up fashionably late to the party leon kennedy style like he does in the first two games even though i've never played doom for the story and carmack has been quoted saying how important he thinks the story is to do story in a game is like story in a porn movie it's expected to be there but it's not that important doom rpg actually builds a great little world to explore levels are populated with npcs and computer monitors all with multiple lines of dialogue and it's some great world building this keeps the game from just being non-stop demon blasting which with the turn-based style would probably get a little dull like i actually wanted to talk to everyone and everything just to see if i was gonna get doom trivia sprung on me or hear about how jan ruined the office ddr party typical jan some of it is clever and if it's not it's just fun after running through an early twisty level a character tells me that the code for a door is on the map and look at that what it's leads my youtube analytics say that most of you are old enough to remember elite speak but wow was the last time you saw elite speak non-ironically owned or however you say that actually even for 2005 lead speak was not exactly on the cutting edge at this point but i found myself shockingly nostalgic for it when was the last time i hack sword with the homies where did the years go man however despite all the colorful world building you are still an unnamed marine something they actually do address in later games and though we are borrowing heavily from doom 3 most of the major characters are instead various scientists so no sarge campbell or no that's right or good old matrix classes here damn man those glasses those glasses are elite technically no dr petruger either but there's another pale looking scientist who fills the role of good old dr backstab the story of how we got doom rpg is a little roundabout while carmack was heavily involved in making all five of these games i have a feeling that one of the main people we can thank is catherine anna kang carmack's long time wife though they separated in 2021 kang cut her teeth working as the director of business development for id software where she did business for titles like quake 3 arena and the playstation's legit amazing port of quake 2. after marrying carmack in 2000 she left id to form her own company fountainhead entertainment and this part is such a blast to pass because fountainhead was not founded as a game development company instead was intended for machinima which if you remember what lead speak is you probably remember that machinima is a technique for using game engines to make films at least before it was a failed mcn that grifted youtubers into signing away their video rights always read the contracts anyway machinima wasn't games it was art you shot church you team killing [ __ ] okay maybe not high art and while red versus blue is probably the first thing that comes to mind facts are that the mandalorian was made in unreal engine machinima has caught up to cinema at this point and is now just another filmmaking tool but one reason kang was so fascinated with machinima was because it essentially birthed from quake and fountainhead seemed to have been moderately successful they were responsible for the first all machinima music video aired on mtv and this was all before youtube but also this was all before youtube so kang's company wasn't exactly profitable and would need to branch out to other avenues on carmack's end he apparently just really liked phones or at least he believed in the potential as he said on his blog i'm not a cellphone guy i resisted getting one at all for years i don't really like talking to most people so i don't go out of my way to enable people to call me however a little while ago i misplaced the old phone and my wife picked up a more modern one for me it had a nice color screen and a bunch of bad java game demos on it the bad java games did it and so inspired by bad java games he set out to make something that would work on the platform he usually made games on the cutting edge of technology but here he would do the opposite and coming off of doom 3 and beginning the long development of rage he was ready for a smaller project like the good old dos days and i mean that semi literally while his cell phone from the time was theoretically way more powerful than a gba according to carmack java whittled that down until you were left with the cpu power of an original 4.77 megahertz ibm pc and lousy control over everything on top of that because java was so open cell phone games had to be optimized for multiple platforms sometimes over a hundred since file size was restricted to about 200k along with the challenges of making a game work on a two inch screen with only a number pad as a controller suddenly the focus on turn-based gameplay made a ton of sense though they did also make higher quality versions for qualcomm's brew phones where file size could be about a hundred times larger fact is you have to aim for the lowest common denominator sounds like a lot of work but kang had a studio that was in need of work and carmack was in need of a small scale pet project and thus doom rpg was born doom rpg has so much style like get a load of this i just turned that bull demon into a kfc drumstick combo like this sequence in the second level which involves negotiating with dr gerard to get a door key from a civilian npc suddenly he transforms into an implement when your back is turned and then suddenly gerard is nowhere to be seen dr backstab how could you it's a small moment but was impressively cinematic for a game you know on a motorola i-730 i'm tempted to think that this is from kang's machinima influence according to interviews she's also responsible for mechanics like the fire extinguisher and the dog collar again proving that carmack is best when paired with someone who thinks big on game design while he focuses on the tech doom rpg has a nice flow too after an introduction level you enter a hub level known as the junction there are seven sectors that you can access in the junction though only three of the sectors are required to finish the game now while this means like about half the game is technically optional it also means it's not exactly linear though if you jump ahead you will find yourself way under leveled but you can take that risk and i've always really enjoyed it when an rpg lets you have that freedom the bulk of the game is these seven main sectors and they ain't small either the first sector took me 34 minutes when i was trying to find all the secrets i still missed one and then i averaged about 25 minutes a level when i wasn't trying to 100 you got your money's worth with doom rpg you could still re-release this game today and reasonably charge a couple of bucks for it you might notice from the footage i am emulating this since doom rpg is extremely delisted it has never been re-released though it has been well preserved and i didn't have any problems finding the rom or in the case of a java game the jar and running it in chemilator something even carmack has endorsed and done in the past there are a couple cool fan projects trying to port it to gz doom but they're pretty incomplete for now i'd recommend emulating instead doom rpg is a really impressive game it reviewed extremely well at the time and turned a nice profit so it's not surprising that id decided to keep investing in mobile but their next rpg was an all new ip their first since quake and to top it off it miraculously got a port on the ds people may present to you the closest thing to an official port of doom the ds ever got orcs and elves can i get it can i get a close-up thank you all right and look it even got a physical release despite starting out as a cell phone game for java and brood we're gonna be talking primarily about the ds version because who the hell was porting cell phone games to consoles in the 2000s oh i guess a couple games did actually but i mean those were mega hits of course plants vs zombies got a slice of ds mania orcs and elves on the other hand was not exactly out here making doodle jump money and it's not like the ds was ever hurting for rpgs so this is one of those i just cannot believe this game exists punching weight moments it looks like carmack and kang were drinking a bit too much of that ambition juice because ultimately even with added bells and whistles from the cellphone original this is still a cell phone game in hell if doom rpg was doomed plus bard's tale then this is just bard's tale and an elf-shaped petticoat which is my way of saying not really a fan of the story or the setting or the writing i mean before we even get started you gotta acknowledge that this might be the most generic fantasy title ever dungeons and dragons was clever in the 70s wizards and warriors was clever in the 80s but it is 2006 you cannot first draft the title of your original fantasy franchise okay but what about that story you are an elf and you're fighting orcs hey it's not false advertising there are also dwarves but they are all dead due to them dastardly orcs your name is ellie but i'll admit i had to look that up because the majority of the dialogue is between other characters and alon you're talking wand i was really disappointed in the world for this one after having so much fun with doom rpg i was really hoping that with the name like orcs and elves i don't know there'd be some kind of self-awareness maybe some in-jokes but nope this game hates jokes like edna mode hates cakes i think the problem is probably due to adult entertainment expert carmack and kang taking point on the story without something like doom 3 to pull inspiration from there are lots of fun cinematics with some fancy camera movement in this game no doubt kang's machinima roots coming in handy but dialogue is extremely stilted i don't need to read yet another introduction of our main characters this deep into the third level maybe it's because it's a brand new ip but i was super disappointed it's just a bog standard fantasy world lacking interesting or memorable characters except of course for sarbac the drunkaholic dwarf who forces you to binge drink with them and by the way there's a drinking mechanic that lowers your accuracy introduces wobble cam and occasionally causes you to attack yourself not exactly redneck rampage but the ds library definitely needed more binge drinking still there is a reason why elon the talking wand hasn't made any id software cameos since bit of a bummer coming off of the fun world of doom rpg but this is definitely a game where we are not reading it for the articles and that's okay because the gameplay is still built on a very solid foundation there's really not a ton of differences from doom except you know different weapons and a wand that you can use to cast magic i mean really this should have just been like a hex n spin-off a new addition is the barter system with the dragon which makes shopping for gear a little more interesting i also appreciate that i can destroy way more stuff in the environment the ds port is a step above its mobile phone siblings thanks to the second screen for inventory and the auto map but if you use the wand too much you lose access to the auto map which is something i had to learn the hard way i really liked the creature design and while there's no music there's an awesome symphony of ambient and combat sound effects that give the action some weight there's once again a hub world like in doom rpg but smaller in scope and just in the dragon's lair how about it works i mean really at the end of the day orcs and elves still delivers gameplay-wise simple fun and addicting like doom rpg and is so much more fun to play on a ds so that you can have that auto map almost all the time the ds version also features two exclusive levels oh and ds rumble pack compatibility i'll admit that that was originally the entire reason i bought this game and i wish i could tell you more about that but it looks like both my ds rumble packs have stopped working orcs and elves was the 71st best review ds game of 2007 according to metacritic which puts it just over halfway in the quality scale between phantom hourglass and chicken shoot and honestly that's about the right place for it it is a great game and was impressive for phones but not so much when you enter the extremely stacked ds library which stands to reason why it's not talked about much anymore it's still absolutely wild to me they thought that porting this to the ds was a good idea especially over doom rpg but it was apparently because they thought this was too violent so binge drinking yes cartoon violence no as if 2007's ds games weren't all about violence particularly chicken-based violence speaking of chicken violence its next big mobile game was 2008's wolfenstein rpg that's not actually true orcs and elves had a cell phone sequel that came out in 2007 but since it's orcs and elves it doesn't seem to be that well preserved and i couldn't find a working jar of it in 2021 carmack himself struggled to get it working on emulation and he's just a little bit better at this than i am right a little bit shame because orcs and elves 2 was apparently a more fleshed out sequel with a little more of an open world with proper villages with npcs and a tiny rat friend however i did find someone who ported the brew version to the zebo which is incredible just when you all thought i'd make it through one video without a zebo mention the zebo gringo strikes again but after two originals carmack and kang brought it back home with wolfenstein rpg and it's a great return to the classic fps world with even more dynamic cutscenes mega toilet throwing action smashing chairs punching skeletons heads off on rails tanks even motion controlled sniping yeah look at me go sniping and also we have it on an ipod touch which i'm not sure if it's because an ipod touch or just a really old version of ios but i tried ipad iphone no problem this thing trust me could not get footage off of it i even took it to mel jesus rock's house uh he knows a little bit more about this stuff he couldn't get it um he gave us some of his footage though thank you bro so you're gonna get a first person pov footage pov uh you're playing wolf rpg i mean it's like you're really there high qual the highest quality youtube wow the story here is basically return to return to castle wolfenstein you are once again the original doom slayer bj blaskowitz how to stop the now wait no sorry the axis haha your bidets are numbered not access scum but with that being said and as you can no doubt tell wolf rpg doesn't lean as much on nostalgia the way doom rpg did outside of a few pieces of audio from the dos original everything is brand new and completely redrawn there are way more weapons and enemies and of course inventory armor leveling up and turn-based combat and lots of chickens the first level alone has a whole room of chickens just minding their business and then multiple runes with chickens strapped to gurneys that you can electrocute for health why am i committing war crimes i know it's just chickens but what did they do to me i just killed another chicken i guess it's trying to in universe explain why the original wolf 3d had cooked chicken dinners all over the place or maybe they were way overcompensating for how orcs and elves played it super straight though i do appreciate the toilet violence in a fun twist the final boss is the cyber demon from doom but before he got his ass kicked and had to get all cybered up which i'm shocked hasn't happened yet in the modern games i mean since the axis always seems to be up to supernatural shenanigans why can't they just be the ones that opened up hell before the uac i'm trying to say is it is way past time they finally committed to making the blaskowitz's the joestar family of the adverbs come on already the environments are extra detailed there's plenty of great little cinematics plus everything is extra destructible like in orcs and elves though it's a little clunky here bj has two melee attacks his fists break boxes and his boots break tables and chairs but wait i really can't bust out this armor with my fists i gotta use the boots i guess for good old not hitler like a punch not hitler here all day but i need that sweet table crushing xp why are you making me switch my weapons so that much though the kick is super useful in combat since it can bump enemies back at square you can also strap dynamite to people there's more strategy in the combat in wolf rpg but then there's also this guy gunther who just shows up makes you play card games with him wait what the hell is going on he even shows up at the very end of the game and he's like oh i gotta i got the spirit destiny do you want it oh god for you gofus how did you even get the spirit destiny ah gunther x machina i love them wolf rpg dropped in 2008 for java and brew but this is the first one to hit apple app store releasing in mid 2009 right after its software's acquisition by xenomax and just in time for the release of raven software's 2009 wolfenstein reboot you know the one you don't know because we all forgot about it it's not even on steam anymore by this point fountainhead had fully merged into its software transforming into id mobile with kang as id mobile's new president but don't think that this means that wolf rpg had some special synergy with wolfo9 it has its own thing with a sense of humor that i've never seen in the wolf franchise like wolfenstein has always had very silly moments but at times this game is his downright saturday morning cartoon but it is still addictive and fun like the previous games the other big addition gameplay-wise is syringes instead of just scrounging for items like the last three games wolf rpg lets you mix syringes at stations littered throughout levels it reminds me a bit of herbs in resident evil but with a little more depth and the action is as good as ever again them tanks and sniper rifles the levels are great i thought it was a pretty easy game until i got to the first boss here all right i just don't get it what is this game's obsession with the chickens there's even this sort of mini golf game where you punt chickens which by itself is fun but still what i even googled john carmack and chickens to see if there's some kind of in-joke or a vendetta nothing i mean there was super turbo turkey puncher 3 you know as a fun side easter egg but wolf rpg's got chickens everywhere i mean hey it's me uncle derek i'm all about the silly haha good times and chickens are inherently funny as is nature's punishment to dinosaurs but wolf rpg's goofs just fell flat with me but at least the chickens get a chance for revenge at the end because they've earned it it is another solid sizeable adventure and for the first time available in ios not anymore but you know seeing the progression of these games all the little improvements and experiments i couldn't have been the only one to wonder what another crack at doom would look like wait a minute i'd recognize that midi base anywhere i can smell it luckily we didn't have to wonder because doom would return to close up the series with the doom 2 rpg released on java and blackberry in 2009 and ios and holy crap windows phone in 2010. [Applause] doom 2 rpg is the biggest most impressive and probably my favorite of the series multiple named and talking protagonists mini games that increased stats water guns that spook demons more accelerometer sniping action i played the ios version on my ipad 2 and i wouldn't say the motion controls were good but it's still impressive that they crammed it into an engine originally designed for java in 2005. the ipad version also includes a really awesome web comment that expands on the story which roughly follows the plot of doom 2. basically a major a scientist and a doom guy specifically named sergeant stan blaskowitz it's cool seeing a doom guy have a name for once gets summoned to the moon because of reasons then it turns out that scientists are running amok with demons again but this time there's a demonic ai named vios trying to wreck the universe he's a great antagonist because throughout the game you'll encounter him you'll have the option to fight vios in that moment as a recurring boss or let him build up his stats for a tougher final encounter but these goddamn id nerds got me looking up with the help malloc means but i learned something new playing doom 2 rpg so well played in nerds having three different protagonists is really neat but i don't think makes a huge difference gameplay wise this is still the same old engine but with a shiny new finish the biggest addition is those mini games i mentioned earlier they're fairly bare bones and easy but still offer a nice break from the turn-based gameplay there's also a ton of newly designed enemies for this game like the pinkinator which spawns pinkies the watchers which are like these radical stick bugs and of course my personal favorites the succubus oh my god just come on it's an amp with a chainsaw what's not to love oh yeah and by the way the strongest variant of the succubus is called the chainstrassity what the hell hasn't this guy come back in there's a lot more level variety the weapons are also really unique there's of course a sniper rifle which beyond being controlled with motion at least on the ios it also lets you shoot enemies on non-adjacent squares drones let you scout ahead or blow yourself up on enemies but my favorite gun was the holy water gun which lets you take off some heat when you're being swarmed but you refill it at toilets i think that is literally the highest form of potty humor doom 2 rpg took the id software rpg series out with a bang but it was not the last id mobile game doom 3 got some mobile love in 2009 and rage hd mutant bash tv came out in 2010 exclusively for ios a full year before the main game however this was the final in the mobile game for many years as rage underperformed id mobile was folded into the doom 4 development team which became its own little hell and carmack and kang departed in the early 2010s bye-bye the other mobile it software games are their own bucket of worms that are better suited for a separate episode of d-listed and i couldn't really do that for the doom rpg series because a few of them aren't delisted we already talked about orcs and elves one for the ds that is the only one that got any kind of physical release but you can actually still buy this ios version of doom 2 right now i only bought this game two years ago because it isn't de-listed so much as unlisted it's just super inconvenient to get so here's what i did i used my ipad 2 that i stopped using and never bothered upgrading so it still has ios 9 and i just went to the app store search for id software which is the name of their old developer account before they folded into bethesda if you check their available games you can still buy wolf 3d classic doom 3 resurrection and doom 2 rpg and as of 2020 rage was still there too but i guess it's gone now and i don't know if you specifically need ios 9 probably just anything older than ios 11 which is when apple stopped supporting 32-bit games because these old games just stopped being supported with newer versions of ios they don't show up when searching on newer devices but unless the publisher or developer actually takes the game down they're not gone but i still recommend you do this as soon as possible since there's no way to know when these games will vanish for good especially since i'm guessing the only reason they're still available is because an intern forgot to move a few folders on a crusty hard drive somewhere here's hoping that the it's software finance people are not like wait a minute how are we still getting money for doom 2 rpg so they may be gone but they shouldn't be forgotten and they should be gone they should be re-released their official age software games that are charming and fun hopefully one day we'll be able to play these all again very soon i want to thank our patreon supporters for supporting this channel they voted on this topic uh in fact they voted on just id mobile games of which there are many so which i supplied it in into two videos the rest of the id mobile games will be coming in a separate video and separate d listed because none of those are available anymore uh that's gonna be coming and uh like we said in the vlog we put up uh yesterday hey we've been gone for a little bit we apologize for that but it's been a interesting and great year so far we have like six seven videos that we are currently working on we just decided to like focus up on one of them uh we have a couple of zebo videos also uh we need to get done and grace is another a big ass video she's working on uh and so they're coming we apologize for the delay but we are back we're healthier and feeling better than ever and again we're trying to get to that patreon goal of 3 000 supporters we have 300 000 subscribers can we get one percent of those people supporting us on patreon uh this is a patreon supporter show now for over seven years we love and thank every single one of you all these names here uh past present they have all supported the show we would not be here in 2022 still talking about crap like doom rpg with now without your support so thank you so much we'll be back again uh rest well stay powerful never stop we'll see you again real soon take care [Music]

Channel: Stop Skeletons From Fighting

Views: 206,916

Keywords: avgn, doom mobile, doom rpg, happy video game nerd, hvgn, id software, punching weight, scott the woz, ssff, stop skeletons, stop skeletons from fighting, stop skeletons from fighting doom, wolfenstein rpg

Id: fUuc405o82M

Length: 29min 39sec (1779 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 10 2022